Growing up here we farmed next to two brothers. One was a John Deere guy the other had International Harvester. The one with International said John Deere was green so it could hide in the grass when the International drove by. The one with Deere said the International was red so the repair technician could easily spot them in the field as they were always coming out to fix them.
The JD accelerator pedal is on the left because you'll be on it more than the reverse. It's just more comfortable. As for the high center of gravity, they need to make a drive over weight box that attaches like a mower deck. No PTO needed obviously. Just a thought. Keep the videos coming, they're highly appreciated.
As a 1025r owner.. most people turn to the right when looking back so when using a rear snowblower it's way more comfortable to depress the outer peddle when going backwards..that's what I think!
Here are my guesses: Reason for no color choice is marketing. You can recognize a John Deere from quite a distance. Seats are high for visibility and to make the tractor seem bigger and allows for driveshaft and tranny underneath with a flat operator station. Only implements I can think of that needs down force are the post hole digger and possible a blade. I added a weight hook at the end of my post hole digger and I can attach 6 weights to my blade. When hydraulics were originally added to tractors the implements were all heavy enough by themselves and didn't need the then expensive hydraulics for down force. I also hate the pedal configurations. The inside pedal is the most comfortable to use for long times and this is why its forward. The reason the reverse pedal isn't on the left side of the tractor is to let you use differential breaking while in reverse. I wish the front 3pt and mid PTO was better thought out to allow for more implements upfront. Since we have quick detach loaders it should be just as easy to put something up front when needed like a snow blade, snowblower, flail mower, brush cutter, rake, etc. Cheers
I have a front mount snow blower on my massey, and I have a front PTO hit that gets the power there. I'm looking at a rotary broom now that I have the blower. I agree on the pedals. It is comfortable to use the inside one for going forward but normally when I am backing up I look over my right shoulder so the outside right pedal is great for reverse.
You are 100% correct on all of this. It is very easy to see the manufactories have become very cheap in the last few years. They are more concerned about the list price than building a quality product, that is a pleasure to use.
With regards to tractors being tipsy, this is a design limitation. People want the tractors to be narrow to fit through gates, they need to be tall to have good ground clearance, and they need to be light so as to not damage lawns. It is up to the operator to both configure their tractor for the job and to know the limitation of their piece of equipment. Tractors are very versatile and that makes them powerful. With great power comes great responsibility.
My pet peeve is with all the various hydraulic fittings that are out there on equipment today. When I used to sell hydraulic hoses and fittings, it was boggling how many different styles were on all various types of machinery, whether it be heavy equipment or agriculture.
And then the Chinese made thier own ORFS fittings that aren't quite the same as the others... It is a disaster, I have to agree. Particularly when you buy equipment and never know what you are going to get, and the local hose places don't carry the sizes you need (or anyone in the US for that matter, I couldn't find them online either). If they are selling to the US market they should use hoses and fittings common here.
As a ROPS engineer there is a "standard" in which the ROPS needs to meet and pass a destructive test. Unfortunately the standard is very rigid in it's purpose and that is to protect the operator. A 2 post ROPS can only do so much and that is why if you look at a 4r series tractor and measure the height of the cab it is lower than that of the 2 post ROPS. There is a "zone" that represents the operator and nothing can come into that zone during the ROPS testing and that includes the ground, or the ROPS itself. So unfortunately, the standard garage door size is not a design consideration in ROPS testing. We can only do so much with the size and ergonomics of the tractor itself to lower the height like a folding ROPS.
I was going to comment somthing similar, assumed it was based on a certain height of operator to protect. That being said I've had no problems with my L3240 hitting a door. But then again i plan ahead. Garage has 10x10 doors.
That's understandable, so could they not design the tractor from the ROPS down a bit and lower the rider position that 1.5" or something? Like slightly smaller tires, slightly lower seat, a little here and there gets you that space
@@cwolf8841 Only a tiny bit as some of the clearance can come from above that point. Also, a small change in ground clearance lowers center of gravity, making it less 'tippy.' I would think making it fit in customer's garage doors would be pretty high on the list, and less than 1" of ground clearance along with other changes would be worth the tradeoff. It's a tractor, not a rock crawler......the way they are used and the way attachments, including mower decks work, it seems the slightly lower ground clearance wouldn't be a negative most of the time....no?
The tie down points is what gets me. I use my tractor for my business so I’m always loading and unloading. I made my own but for what I paid I shouldn’t have to. JMO
Our Brush Tiger uses a rear hydraulic power pack. I don't recommend running hydraulic motors off of most tractors' hydraulics. They don't have the cooling capacity or flow rate.
Back in the early 1970's JD tried multi colors with their 100 series lawnmowers. It failed spectacularly. I understand that dealerships repainted a large percentage of them to be able to sell them. It was called the "Patio edition" series. They didn't sell and today they are a collector item. Other companies tried to go multi colors for their ag tractors over the years and the majority of them did not sell well. I think the general farmer mentality over the years has been "if a company is not proud enough of their tractors to paint it the 'trademark' color then it's probably not worth buying."
Corey, you are killing me……oh goodness, I laughed so hard watching this video this morning. Your RANT is the rant that we all have had. God Bless brother.
I used to chuckle seeing pics/vids of rops v garage doors, thinking “knucleheads”… just got my 3047r, VERY FIRST TIME PUTTING HER BACK IN THE OUTBUILDING - BLAM💥🤣🤣🤣
So listen, having said and acknowledged that roll-overs are no laughing matter, as a green tractor guy, I found the funniest part of the video two guys driving orange tractors both roll-over only moments apart. I'm happy they are okay, or at least appear okay, but funny. Anyway, agreed on nearly all of those except the pedals. You're not wrong Courtney, I just have adapted and have no issues. In fact the only time I ever think about it is after watching one of your videos when you speak about it. Now the next time I go out there to run the tractor, I'll be confused on how to operate it.🤣 The one that gets me the most is the lack of tie-downs, big question mark there, geez Deere come on...probably the others too. Great video.
Nice video Courtney. Yes the pedals can be a pain. I have a JD 4400 and when going in reverse and you want to spin your torso left around to look backwards, it like I’m on my tip-toes to press on the pedal.
Good video, I especially appreciated the roll over bar comments since the 4066m I got from you doesn't have a folding ROPS so I can only fit it in one shed but not my heated garage. With the hydrostat pedals I always assumed that John Deere had the forward and reverse that way because generally the tractor is going forward so it would be more ergonomic to have it on the left side.
Amen, brother! I purchased a sub-compact tractor a couple years ago (BX2380 - my first tractor) to mostly take care of my gravel driveway. I have a small Polaris ranger for plowing and hauling. I have a very hilly yard, and I can't take my tractor hardly anywhere in my yard. The Polaris seems so much safer and stable, and can carry items. I wish I had a tough side-by-side with a loader and a 3-point hitch.
Simple solution for the hydrostatic pedal solution. I have a clutch lever. Chutch fork just broke a couple weekends ago. 4 bolts and 1 pin and i popped the part off without even bending over. Oh and also my tractor is all green except a yellow strip on ean side of hood. Gotta love old school 2 cylinders
JD 520, first tractor I ever drove. 62 years ago, I was 7. However, try using that thing with a front loader. We had a TD 6 International dozier, 36 hp. Hand clutch, manual transmission, but at least the shifter was tall and right next to the clutch.
Interesting. 1: Colour choice buy a Valtra (agco group brand), 2: low centre of gravity compact buy a Deutz Fahr Agrokid or a Antonio Carraro (new tractors are actually far less tippy than old tractors and comparable on weight for there power class if anything new tractors especially the compacts are actually heavier than old ones. 3: Want a compact tractor that is like a car to drive Yanmars YT3 series tractors are the pick for you (they are brilliant tractors wish we could get them here Australia and I would of brought one over a JD). 4: Rops height is all about country specific standards and ISO standards. 5: 3 point was designed to be used with ground engaging implements such as a plough and so they needed only to be able to lift the implement, some manufacturers have had downforce on certain models but generally it wasn't used properly and did damage to implements and the tractor as well as causing stability issues. 6: storage well they've always sucked at it but they are much better than the old days. 7 hydraulic power sucks and it's not efficient so to explain, the engine producing mechanical power is then converted to fluid power via the pump this than goes to a valve bank then to either a cylinder or a motor both of which convert that fluid power back to mechanical power resulting in a power loss of +25% a 66hp tractor with 12gpm is producing around 20hp at the outlets at best and that's before you convert that fluid power back to mechanical power. Now if you look at a hydro tractor with PTO say 66hp at the Engine and 52hp at the pto that's a 22% loss. So it's more efficient to drive a implement with the pto than it is with the hydraulics.
I have a theory for the John Deere pedal positioning. I've run earth moving and mining equipment for a long time. Manufacturers of this equipment consistently seem to place controls that are most often used closest to the operator or toward the center of the operator's station. I think the most of us spend most of our time going foward.
Great video concept, Courtney! In responding to the down pressure below and realizing comments were designed to be short, I realized that this idea of "where did that feature come from" would be a great staple for your Tractor Talk format! Most of us have never farmed or worked heavy construction, but since we all love pretending in our "sandboxes," viewers might really get into the "why it was made" concept. It could be common features or even single purpose machines... thanks as always for producing content worth watching and without all the adults behaving badly drama of the networks!
Tractors are a product of legacy. PTO's were an upgrade on the wide belt drive. Hydraulics came along later and didn't offer enough advantages to displace the PTO as the main power transfer mechanism, especially when one considers all the legacy equipment that would have to be converted. In fact hydraulics have some key disadvantages, most notably how inefficient they are as a drive mechanism which results in a tremendous amount of heat that must be managed as well as a reduction in the size of equipment that could be run off a given power train. 3 point hitches also pre-date modern hydraulics, meaning that farm equipment already had a way to be raised and lowered so hydraulics were really only needed to move a cylinder to raise and lower pull-type equipment. Though, when you think about it, the PTO was lucky to come along when it did, otherwise safety regulations would have prevented it from ever becoming a thing. Hydraulic drive and the big pumps that accompany it make much more sense on skid steer type equipment as they're crashing and banging, forward and back repeatedly. A solid geared connection is much more likely to tear itself apart under these conditions. Tractors have traditionally been gear driven for working the fields and spending long periods in a single direction while maximizing fuel economy. Going forward, the next big shift will be towards electrification. The PTO will likely survive as a legacy standard because it will allow cheap equipment to continue to be manufactured. But hydraulics may disappear as electric actuators take over. Already, the cleaning and certification of hydraulic oil systems are a huge headache for anyone looking to work in any agricultural area that wants to meet an organic standard. For some reason they don't have the same concern with electron leaks.
I never had a problem with a treadle pedal. But the John Deere's dual pedal does make sense. You go forward more often than backward. If the pedal was at the right, your leg would get tired more quickly. Keeping as close to the center as possible keeps the pedal in a more natural position of where your leg would naturally be. I also don't get the comparison between a tractor and a car. There are two entirely different pieces of equipment. If you can't learn which pedal to push, should you really be operating either? I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but these are serious pieces of equipment. You need to take the time to develop the muscle memory.
Not to brag, but I've never hit my garage door with the ROPs. 😄 On the 1700 series Masseys it fits in a standard garage door without folding. BUT I'm pretty tall, and the ROPS is not a lot taller than me so Deere may be making theirs higher as a safety thing. The larger row crop tractors are set in their width so they can drive through a corn field without running over crops, same with the height. On the compact tractors I think its more of a tight space/ ground clearance issue.
With our row crop tractors we can change the width. Several were made narrower when we went from 38" rows to 30" rows. Others are kept wider because they're not used in the field after planting.
@@dfarmer_ true with that. We always had a hay tractor with loader that was spaced out wider for stability and so it would straddle wind rows of hay without running them over then the row crops were spaced appropriately. So we never really messed with moving them in and out.
I like my little green 1025 it does the things I bought it for on 5 plus acres, I'd like to find a reasonable 2 function snow plow, up, down, left and right for front end !
What percentage of tilt should I be worried about? I have slopes that my "tilt" meter says I'm at 15% I do have wheel spacers and beet juice in the rear tires and my tractor is a sub compact. Thanks
I have a Yanmar YT 347,it has a single pedal for forward and reverse. Left on the column shuttle forward and reverse. It drives like a car. Take a look, the engineering has addressed alot of the issues you mentioned. Also look at A B mode for the hydrostatic transmission, it's on the joy stick of the loader. The tractor is the most efficient to operate in my 50+ years of operating all the different colors of tractors. PS I also enjoy all your videos, Thanks DonR
Down pressure was offered in the 4R series literature in 2014 but never actually implemented or sold. I have the literature and tried to get it when I bought the tractor as well. I also tried to put it together at the parts counter but not available in pieces either! Thanks for you time and effort with the always informative videos!
Colour, Valtra, while not offering compact tractors, does have quite a big range of colour options, & in fact, while they start with a basic build, every Valtra is custom built to customer requirements, though an extensive list of options. Fendt also offer a few different colours as well. & both are available with reverse drive & Valtra is more user friendly with that option. Belarus tractors is one I know of that has down pressure 3pl as standard. Pfanzelt Machinenbau also custom builds tractors based on a Steyr, & these are dual use for both forestry & agriculture. There is probably more out there too that I'm not aware of. From the ones above list, except Belarus (although they may have by now) usually have CVT transmissions as well, depending on the model. As a hydraulics fitter by trade, hyd power is expensive to both purchase & maintain, & a ballpark figure for efficiency is about 80%, & this is why hyd power has to be big, lots of flow, pressures are getting higher, which creates heat (needs cooling again), the list goes on. If you can use mechanical PTO's, it is a lot more efficient at delivering the power to the implement & a lot less maintenance. The only limiting factor with PTO shafts is to no subject the uni joint to excessive angles, use a dbl H or CV joint if big angles are needed
Color: branding, pure branding. Red used to be Farmall. Nowadays Case IH is yellow, I think because most heavy equipment is yellow regardless of brand. Tippiness: Tractors were originally built for row crops - that defines the spacing between the wheels. It's like the spacing of railroad rails is defined by the width of roman chariot wheels - which was actually defined by the breadth of the horses. The height is usually based on the diameter of the rear wheels which defines the height of the differential, although I have seen tractors that have offset gearing between the differential and the axles. High differential means high CG, although there's also the factor of being able to pass over most crops. Backhoe stabilizer pads can help prevent tipover - if there's a backhoe attached. Roll cage: even though the compact tractors are targeted to the consumer market, the manufacturers think in terms of BARNS, not car garages. Or just parking them outside - I think farmers usually don't care too much that their tractors look factory new. Hydraulics: Tractor hydraulics were designed for controls, ie cylinders, which don't usually need high volume. NOT motors which do need high volume. They're designed to use the PTO for power output. 3-point hitches were designed for row crop attachments which only needed something to lift them for transport. Older tractors didn't even have a 3-point - the Farmall 560 I used to have just had a draw bar - I had to add a 3rd party 3-point. Forward/reverse: no idea. My Farmall had a reverse gear. My case 580b had a forward/reverse lever on the column - THAT made ergonomic sense.
Talking about ballast and moving your center of gravity I've always thought it'd be a really good idea to put like a 1-inch plate on the floor panel metal weighs a lot that would really lower your center of gravity I would think
Good idea for when you're not mowing you can have a drive on skid plate that you can put on underneath that way to keep you're hosing and everything from that random stick or whatnot jamming up inside of your lines🤔🤔🤔
It’s funny that the most slope friendly compact tractor; the Ventrac, has a digital slope gauge. And when it’s getting to 30* on a side slope, you KNOW it. Lol!
Courtney, you talk a lot about ballast etc...what is a safe angle to mow etc on sidehills? I have a JD 4720 with cab, fluid in tires etc. and try to mow with my bucket low to the ground. Thanks, Bob
I know what you mean about most of these things. When I first got my JD 4520, I backed it into my barn like I knew what I was doing. When I took it out the next time I looked at the clearance of the ROPS. It only cleared the top of the doorway by about an inch. They say God watches out for children and fools. I keep Him pretty busy. As far as a tilt gauge, I go by the pucker factor. If my butt is trying to grab the seat, I'm on too much of a hill. The tippyness is probably because of the light weight. I had a '65 IH 504 48hp at the engine that weighed 8000 Lbs. with a manure bucket, loaded tires, and 6' Bushhog. My 4520, 53hp at the engine, set up the same way with the exception of the loader, this one is a hydraulic loader, I'm guessing weighs maybe 6000Lbs. Mine is a power reverser so the pedals aren't an issue. But on my JD lawn tractor the pedals are like you say but for some reason I never made the connection to a car. Anyway, I've gotten used to the idiosyncrasies of the tractor and I wouldn't trade it for anything unless the next one was green too.
Tractors are tippy because of the need for ground clearance and seats are high for good visibility...all trade offs. Light tractors have an advantage over heavy ones in that ballast can be added where as weight cant be taken away. I use my L3901 in my tree service with a wallenstien rotator grapple that I mount both three point and loader at times. I had to fight a bit with my dealer about not putting fluid in my tires until I explained that being light on yards is good for me. If I need more ballast when using the loader I grab a big chunk of wood with the grapple. Options are good, knowing your machine limits and not exceeding them whatever the configuration, and being an operator over a driver is important. Hydraulic power packs are so much money so my solution was to buy an entire system from an old Tiger flail mower off of a township road mower. A day in the shop cutting and welding now I have a six foot loader mounted flail mower powered by a great hydraulic pto power pack for about $700. It works really well on brushy undergrowth. I'm sure it will power other things in the future. Hydrostatic pedals what ever they are don't make sense to me. My old cub cadet with a lever by the steering wheel or honda mower with the lever on the right fender and my buddys old massey has a hand lever and pedal all seem to be better. My guess is manufacturers are protecting themselves with the pedal system all someone has to do is take their foot off the pedal and the tractor stops. ROPS are a pain because you shouldn't modify them as the are certified so if you ever sell the tractor or trade it the dealer will ding you hard on value because they have to replace it. Good video for venting frustration on Courtney. I'll try and remember to send you some pics of the equipment I have built and modified for your tractor talk videos... I look forward to those very much.
I haven’t operated a farm tractor since 1974, but remember operating a 4020 JD with rops. My dad,s old MM U tractor was a little tippy when plowing terraces on our Oklahoma farm, but it was easy to step off the deck🤣.I still love watching sg equipment. If you watch the tractors used for mowing on interstates, most are wide stance and low to the ground and th ey handle some scary slopes. If you look at the OSHA regs, they refer to specific standards developed by engineering companies, but don’t have specific details other than you must have ROPS and a seatbelt, plus operator training on the seatbelt. Be safe!
I think the forward reverse pedals are the way they are so the forward is closer to you since you’ll be going forward more often and won’t have to reach your foot out so far. I have gotten used to the treadle on my kubota. We had a customer buy a Mahindra and would not fit in his garage when it showed up after he ordered it because it was about 6” taller than the specs showed.
I agree I don’t have long legs I’ve never found it confusing. The one that gets me are the smaller lawn tractor, my 345 has the brake pedal and go pedals are on same side . If you are on a incline and trying to get close to something you can’t brake
Courtney, good video. It's only taken me a few and now you are mentioning my Massey. Keep it up! Also, I have a 12 foot roll up door in my shop so I haven't smacked the door yet with the rops up, but I'm sure one of the kids will by not opening the door all the way.
ROPs height is determined by geometry. Draw a line from the top of the roll bar to the top of the hood (technically, to the top of the weight bearing frame under the hood). That line needs to be above the head of the user sitting in the seat. Shorter tractors need a taller ROPs because of the steeper angle. Which brings me to dimensions. Narrower tractors will fit into places that wider ones won't. And shorter tractors will have a tighter turning radius. When you're trying to sell a tool that can do as much as possible you make it as narrow as possible with the smallest turn radius. (The end customer can always add width, but can never subtract width...and short can be offset with front or rear weights.) The reason John Deere folks want green attachments is because they paid so much for that green paint, so if ya' got it, flaunt it! (I have a Gator that's almost identical to the Kawasaki Mule from the same year; every part for the Gator is twice as much as the same part for the Mule because that green paint is REALLY expensive!) :)
Oh, and the right/left pedals on Deere and pretty much everyone but Kubota....the inboard pedal is forward because it makes for a narrow stance when driving. Pressing the outboard pedal puts a little extra fatigue on your hips and thighs, and forward is used a lot more than reverse. In your car, the pedals are directly in front of you, but on the tractor they're displaced off to the right.
Ventracs are very stable. Wide & low. Articulates both ways. And angle meter on board, too. And fits under a garage door. You can increase hydraulic output somewhat on John Deeres. Visit Hydrosplus. Yep, non standard pedal configurations cause problems. retroactive inhibition. It's why you still reach for the clutch pedal when you switch over to an automatic.
I may be biased, because I’ve only owned JD, but the Twin Touch seems intuitive to me. The go pedals are on the right and the stop pedal is on the left. I get the car analogy, but it’s just an extra go pedal over there. I have used the treadle pedal on a Kubota that I rented before I bought my 2025R and it was the most frustrating thing on it, and ultimately kept me away from Kubota as an option for a compact. I wear a size 13, and it was awkward to use, going in reverse was similar to your experience, but the biggest pain was that there was nowhere comfortable for my foot to be. It also made entry/exit from the right side difficult. It almost seems silly that something as simple as a pedal kept me from buying an otherwise quality tractor. Like you said, where’s the focus group?
You and me both. I borrowed my neighbor's Kubota a few years ago to spread a load of shell rock. That treadle was very tiring for my old right leg. Two months a I bought a JD 1023. Perfect.
Excavators have two treadle petals and I don’t hear complaints about them. Larger hydraulic pumps require more horse power. 3 point down pressure has the potential of lifting the rear tires off the ground and maybe causing a unsafe condition. I assume that the ROPS bar are designed to prevent the tractor from rolling over; thus, if they were shorter they might not work. If a manufacturer could make a ROPS shorter and still have it work, it would save them manufacturing cost; so, I’m sure they would already be shorter.
Tractors were always designed for farmers and some construction only in the past few years has almost every homeowner wanted a tractor however I agree with what you are saying they all need to wake up
Guess they save money on R&D. Everything comes down to $$. I have added lights, cameras, and other things that would of been nice to have in my color orange from the factory. I get the farmers running a business and needing to save money but a lot of us buy these and want accessories offered at the factory.
The reason tractors are lighter weight now is because a lot of them have to be shipped from overseas and making them lighter is less cost to ship as they ship a lot of things be weight. That is why a lot of hoods are plastic now, they weigh less.
Colors are easy- we don't always get close to a tractor working somewhere, so making a brand recognizable from a distance makes sense from an advertising mindset. The JD twin touch pedals- that's an easy one too......you spend more time going forwards than backwards and having your leg and foot more centrally located in relation to your body is simply more comfortable, especially over longer periods, plus your thigh isn't close to, or rubbing against the loader joystick when your foot is closer to the center stack.
First time tractor owner bought a 1997 MF 231, spent an hour trying to figure out the best location to use for a tie down location that wouldn't cause damage to something else.
Positive down pressure is a great idea on a 3 point hitch until you actually use it, then you realize it’s completely useless. For draft equipment, the more down pressure you add, you lift your drive tires off the ground, so less traction. Using a rear blade on ice or hard pack snow is is even worse, add down pressure, again less traction, with the addition of loss of control, especially if going down a hill.
Our New Holland Workmaster has forward and reverse pedals. I love that I can just barely push the pedals and go as slow as I need to. Most rollover structures can be lowered. We completely removed ours in order to work inside turkey houses. The only fault I have with our tractor is that the fuel tank is right behind the seat. Makes it hard to see whn hooking up to something with the drawbar
I'm a bit of a mediocre grade engineer myself so here's my thoughts... Color: Cheaper to provide equipment with a single color. Less SKU's. Also brand identity is critical and marketing becomes easier. Color is a preference option that provides no real performance over your competition in the brochures. Tippy: You mentioned they are tippy if you're not on perfectly flat ground. These machines need ground clearance because they're mostly used on non-flat ground. Also steels have gotten better, and stronger so less is needed to achieve the same strength. You can make it wider, but that limits maneuverability. (There's surely many other factors as well.) Hydraulic vs PTO: PTO is just simpler, cheaper and more reliable. Also tractors were not traditionally designed for using front tools besides a bucket. They're pulling tools. Foot Pedals: Most of the time you're moving forward. Placing the forward pedal on the left is more ergonomic that the right. Less forced leg spread. The treadle is logical with front for forward and back for rear, but the details of the pedal connection is quite varied and can make the experience good or bad. Shuttle shift is the most like a car, but it's more expensive. ROPS: If you draw a line from the tip of the hood to the top of the ROPS. I'm guessing that it would provide just enough clearance for a tall operator if the tractor were to flip upside down. Also by making it shorter, you're more likely for a full rollover rather than just stopping on it's side. There's likely some wiggle room they could work with, but cutting it too close on safety equipment could lead to ugly lawsuits if it doesn't provide the required safety cushion in an accident. As I've been getting more into tractors, I have many of the same questions you asked here. It's like they refuse to join current trends with ergonomics and user interfaces!
Thank you! Always interesting!! Food for thought, do you have a catalog of everything you sell ?? I am still old school! Like to hold something besides my laptop computer to look up new products!!
As I understand it when three point hitch came out it wasn't the best option but certain manufacturers had patents on their systems, so as it went on it was who could produce more and what was more friendly to competition that won.
I have a 2019 JD 3025E. When I need to turn my body around enough to see clearly what I am doing, I would not be able to keep my right foot on the forward pedal. That is probably why they use that configuration.
I added 3” bora wheel spacers after 40 hours on my new 1025r. Was the best thing I’ve added for stability. I went with the steel option for the added ballast weight over aluminum.
If the ROPS on my 2025r was 2 inches shorter it would also not bend the top link on the 3 point hitch if the imatch is installed. If you have it down and bring up the 3 point all the way up the ROPS will bend the top link. Does it sound like this happened to me? Thanks for the great videos.
Color is for sure Brand recognition, if you haven't looked at the Styling of Kubota and Kioti lately, their body styling is VERY much the same in the hood design! PTO power vs Engine has always been my gripe point HP is measured differently than before, and pre 60s tractor were measured by Belt power! (A 2N Ford can pull a 2 bottom plow at 22+/- hp, where my BX2200 can struggle to pull a middle buster!) As far as tippy.....ALL tractors are tippy, it takes a little common sense to be alert in possible situations, I think! As always, your videos are enjoyable and full of useful information!
I like Kubota's HST plus pedal, the short aluminum one. It's super easy to push down with your toe for both forward and reverse. Forward is on the right of the pedal, reverse is on the back.
@@frankemswiler2836 I have a reverse lever on my '05 JD 4520. It's a power reverser not a hydrostatic tyranny. I can shift into reverse while going forward and not stopping. It's very handy when I'm brush hogging. The dealer told me I could be going forward in road gear and throw it into reverse without the clutch. The tractor slows down then goes into reverse. The only thing you have to remember that when you do that, reverse will be the same speed as you were going in forward. I prefer the power reverser to hydrostatic but to each his own.
@@douglaspost5097 agreed on that. I have the shuttle shift on my Kubota. Same as the power reverser. Wouldn't have it any other way. Also no hydrostats robbing power.
Lol,, Your absolutely right about the " Roll Bar" ,,, I had to take mine completely off,,, cut 2" out of it and weld it back , grind and sand it smooth , prime and repaint it for 2" ! I was gonna brag on your Ball cap though . Absolutely Love Kuiu ! BUT ,,,,,,,,,, BUT ! WHAT THE CRAP IS UP WITH THOSE SHELVES IN YOUR SHOP ? I think you should do a complete video on them ! That upper shelf looks like you used Cardboard for the shelf material ! LMAO !
Trail Blazer makes a reasonably priced Pto power pack for their 44 inch loader mount brush hog. It is under $2k and it will give you 400 pounds of ballast when you fill it up with hydraulic fluid. This is enough to run their brush hog. We should be getting ours sometime in March. Unfortunately probably the end of that month. Like everyone else, they have production challenges.
I think the color on the tractor brand is similar to the "badge" on cars to identify the brand.....plus the color is like advertising for people not close enough to read the names. "Drive by" name recognition.
Talking about small hydraulic systems. I'm pretty sure they hydraulic reservoir in too small for backhoe operation. Really noticeable pump whine when you get on to much of a slope.
I have ask many of those same questions. Especially the ROPS bar that won't fit under my garage door without folding it down! They must know it is a problem or they wouldn't make it fold down.
I bought a new 4052R from a dealer with a 3PH down pressure kit already on it. (I didn’t order it) I never use it. I don’t have a post hole digger and really have not found a real need to use it.
Great points! You would think one of the tractor building companies would build a hilly terrain model with a lower CG, wider stance etc. Are they just not listening or what? Thanks
As far as color, it would raise the issue of having to keep parts like hoods, fenders... any part that's normally painted in the brand colors, in a variety of popular colors or have the added cost of being painted to match the color of your tractor. Unlike a car, those parts are much more likely to need to be replaced simply because of the environment tractors are subject to. Not having storage space has turned into one of my biggest pet peeves. Where to store the simple tools you need out in the field to fit problems that come up, a place to store spare pins or chains or.... arrrrrggggg! lol...
ROPS. I got a 9.5' high storage container to store my tractor. Color. They do it as free advertising. Storage. Heck if I know. Mine is packed full. I hang an old cantle saddle bag on my ROPS for extra stuff. Treadle pedal on my L3560. I like it but I don't use my heel for reverse. I use my toe for both. My brake is on the left side for left foot use.
I have had 3 John Deere tractors with the pedal setup you talked about. I agree with your thought process but I think its the most comfortable with the forward pedal on the inside....I have also used Kubotas pedal as well.....I'm sure in time you could get used to it but...honestly its awful to use.
Talk about WHY why do i need to change wheels(rims) to go from one style tire to another. I have R4 tires wanted to go to the versa turf tires and was told that I needed to change wheels(rims) as well..to the tune of 3K.Common ridiculous
I dont know why manufacturers have gotten away from making low profile machines in the 50-75hp range. Just bought a new 5075e almost a year ago now and it's just about worthless without something heavy on the three point. Haven't gotten around to filling the tires yet but it's coming. My old Ford 4610su has never scared me on uneven ground and I've never had the rear tires off the ground. They've always had water in them though.
Just bought a used 5075e cab. I put 50 percent filled rimguard in the tires. Quick hitch with heavy hitch on the back for weights. I can take the rear weights off easily that way. Well I have a forklift. So I can cheat that way. Heavy hitch is because I also bought a grapple. Messing with trees. I might want more weight then filled tires. Otherwise I might have filled the rear tires more. Forgot about the heavy hitch. Make sure you have the tires mounted on the wide side. Some farmers do use the smaller tractors for row crops. So they want more clearance under the tractor. So the tractor itself does not knock the crops down. Or rip the leaves more.
I kind of disagree. I feel like a $5 tilt gauge with clearly marked "DO NOT EXCEED" limits would cover the manufacturer even more. Hell, I'm sure that Japan, Korea, or China could make one with a buzzer and a warning light for less than that.
@@dustyphillips3166 I don’t think so. You just know some guy on a slippery hill going too fast is going to end up on his lid anyway, and he will go to court saying he was on the right side of the do not exceed label. Either that, or they would have to make it at a super safe level to avoid that risk, and it would start buzzing when one hub was an inch lower than the other side.
My answer on the hydraulic vs pto power. PTO power is a lot more efficient. There is a lot of lost power just because the fluid is compressible as compared to a direct mechanical connection. I had a seven foot mower on a T320 Bobcat skid loader. Running it on a hot day would overheat the skid loader even if I wasn't using the air conditioning. It's about a 90 horsepower machine. For comparison, I now have a 8 foot mower on my 1655 Oliver (70 PTO hp) and it can work all day long and it stays in the operating range of the gauge. Skid loaders are great, but they are not the answer for every single job.
I have a compact John Deere and love the pedal system. Firstly the brake pedal is to the far left it is left foot operated. I am on a hill block so a lot of the time my left foot is hovering over the brake pedal while operating the machine in forward or reverse. The forward pedal inside is keeping your leg in a straight line. In reverse operation, quite often we are turning and looking over our shoulder. The natural movement through your torso automatically brings your leg out to counterbalance your movement pretty much in line with the outside reverse pedal. So if you are twisting to the right your leg moves further out right. If you are twisting to the left your right leg will still automatically move out to the right. So the pedal position was only strange for the first couple of operations on the machine. As for the ropes bar. Coming forward and higher on the angle gives more safety margins above your head. I am 5'8" so dropping the whole set up for me would still give me plenty of safety margin above my head. If however I were 6'5" it would be a different story. A lot of people I see for some reason drop the rop bar to its lowest position when shedding it. If you place your pins in the middle hole on the John Deer the top part of the rop bar sits at a right angle facing back which is great, because to put it back in the drive position you are pushing it up rather than lifting the heavy bar from almost a vertical downward position. I for one think the knuckleheads have got it all pretty much spot on 😅
Excellent to hear I’m not the only one boggled at the tippyness of tractors. They never progressed from their original configuration unlike cars, which also started out high and with engines way up in the air and huge hoods. The three point hitch is hopelessly outdated too. Why we still use dangerous and fragile PTO shafts instead of hydraulics & hoses (for bush hogs, for example) is beyond me. With a little innovation and mass production the price would drop.
Add a place for small amount of fuel. Better to have it so you can run back to the barn. Running out in the field is a horrible day with most tractors. Only have to do it once to learn that lesson.
JD 3020, a deep, long toolbox was molded into the bodywork under the left side of the seat. An 18 inch Crescent wrench easily fit into along with a big hammer and other wrenches. My cab tractors, JD 4440 and 4250 had a good sized toolbox bolted to the frame in front of the step. Big enough for those tools also. My JD 1023E has a small toolbox bolted on the right to the back of the RPOS. Good for smaller wrenches.
I know that technically we aren't supposed to alter our ROPS, but I was thinking about it. Then I realized that if I lowered it and sat on the backhoe seat I would be bouncing my head off it constantly. I mounted my backhoe higher on the frame for the ground clearance
Its called common sense. Tractors are built to use a multitude of different equipment. The basic trator can not be set to operate every piece. That is why there is auxiliary add on equipment. Now when selling a bucket, or other equipment, there should be a list of recommended add ons necessary to operate safely.
For one Color thing, it’s for brand recognition without seeing the name. There is one large ag tractor brand that does allow a little bit of Color choice called Valtra
Are there any episodes concerning increasing the lift capacity of the front and loader on a tractor? For many years John Deere produced two different loaders for the same tractor. The thought process behind that makes no sense to me. For instance, my tractor was equipped with a 300 X loader versus a 300 CX loader. Are there different hydraulic cylinders or hose kits that will enable me to increase lift height and capacity without searching for and finding a 300 CX loader. (We know how difficult that task can be.)
Growing up here we farmed next to two brothers. One was a John Deere guy the other had International Harvester.
The one with International said John Deere was green so it could hide in the grass when the International drove by. The one with Deere said the International was red so the repair technician could easily spot them in the field as they were always coming out to fix them.
The JD accelerator pedal is on the left because you'll be on it more than the reverse. It's just more comfortable. As for the high center of gravity, they need to make a drive over weight box that attaches like a mower deck. No PTO needed obviously. Just a thought. Keep the videos coming, they're highly appreciated.
As a 1025r owner.. most people turn to the right when looking back so when using a rear snowblower it's way more comfortable to depress the outer peddle when going backwards..that's what I think!
I agree, I think it would be awkward if they were switched.
Here are my guesses:
Reason for no color choice is marketing. You can recognize a John Deere from quite a distance.
Seats are high for visibility and to make the tractor seem bigger and allows for driveshaft and tranny underneath with a flat operator station.
Only implements I can think of that needs down force are the post hole digger and possible a blade. I added a weight hook at the end of my post hole digger and I can attach 6 weights to my blade. When hydraulics were originally added to tractors the implements were all heavy enough by themselves and didn't need the then expensive hydraulics for down force.
I also hate the pedal configurations. The inside pedal is the most comfortable to use for long times and this is why its forward. The reason the reverse pedal isn't on the left side of the tractor is to let you use differential breaking while in reverse.
I wish the front 3pt and mid PTO was better thought out to allow for more implements upfront. Since we have quick detach loaders it should be just as easy to put something up front when needed like a snow blade, snowblower, flail mower, brush cutter, rake, etc.
Cheers
I have a front mount snow blower on my massey, and I have a front PTO hit that gets the power there. I'm looking at a rotary broom now that I have the blower. I agree on the pedals. It is comfortable to use the inside one for going forward but normally when I am backing up I look over my right shoulder so the outside right pedal is great for reverse.
You are 100% correct on all of this. It is very easy to see the manufactories have become very cheap in the last few years. They are more concerned about the list price than building a quality product, that is a pleasure to use.
With regards to tractors being tipsy, this is a design limitation. People want the tractors to be narrow to fit through gates, they need to be tall to have good ground clearance, and they need to be light so as to not damage lawns. It is up to the operator to both configure their tractor for the job and to know the limitation of their piece of equipment. Tractors are very versatile and that makes them powerful. With great power comes great responsibility.
My pet peeve is with all the various hydraulic fittings that are out there on equipment today. When I used to sell hydraulic hoses and fittings, it was boggling how many different styles were on all various types of machinery, whether it be heavy equipment or agriculture.
No joke! When we buy something we take the JD fitting off and put the universal on. We also have some adapters that are used in a pinch.
I agree. It hate O ring face seal. JIC is really the best even though it can't be used everywhere. ORB is good for everything else.
And then the Chinese made thier own ORFS fittings that aren't quite the same as the others... It is a disaster, I have to agree. Particularly when you buy equipment and never know what you are going to get, and the local hose places don't carry the sizes you need (or anyone in the US for that matter, I couldn't find them online either).
If they are selling to the US market they should use hoses and fittings common here.
As a ROPS engineer there is a "standard" in which the ROPS needs to meet and pass a destructive test. Unfortunately the standard is very rigid in it's purpose and that is to protect the operator. A 2 post ROPS can only do so much and that is why if you look at a 4r series tractor and measure the height of the cab it is lower than that of the 2 post ROPS. There is a "zone" that represents the operator and nothing can come into that zone during the ROPS testing and that includes the ground, or the ROPS itself. So unfortunately, the standard garage door size is not a design consideration in ROPS testing. We can only do so much with the size and ergonomics of the tractor itself to lower the height like a folding ROPS.
I was going to comment somthing similar, assumed it was based on a certain height of operator to protect. That being said I've had no problems with my L3240 hitting a door. But then again i plan ahead. Garage has 10x10 doors.
That's understandable, so could they not design the tractor from the ROPS down a bit and lower the rider position that 1.5" or something? Like slightly smaller tires, slightly lower seat, a little here and there gets you that space
I've seen many people working with the ROPS folded. Gotta make sure it is UP when working so it is effective
@@ian3580 Then you affect ground clearance.
@@cwolf8841 Only a tiny bit as some of the clearance can come from above that point. Also, a small change in ground clearance lowers center of gravity, making it less 'tippy.' I would think making it fit in customer's garage doors would be pretty high on the list, and less than 1" of ground clearance along with other changes would be worth the tradeoff. It's a tractor, not a rock crawler......the way they are used and the way attachments, including mower decks work, it seems the slightly lower ground clearance wouldn't be a negative most of the time....no?
The tie down points is what gets me. I use my tractor for my business so I’m always loading and unloading. I made my own but for what I paid I shouldn’t have to. JMO
Our Brush Tiger uses a rear hydraulic power pack. I don't recommend running hydraulic motors off of most tractors' hydraulics. They don't have the cooling capacity or flow rate.
Yeah, I think your setup is much better than the version that runs off the tractor's system. Is that the Lane Shark? I can't recall right now.
Back in the early 1970's JD tried multi colors with their 100 series lawnmowers. It failed spectacularly. I understand that dealerships repainted a large percentage of them to be able to sell them. It was called the "Patio edition" series. They didn't sell and today they are a collector item. Other companies tried to go multi colors for their ag tractors over the years and the majority of them did not sell well. I think the general farmer mentality over the years has been "if a company is not proud enough of their tractors to paint it the 'trademark' color then it's probably not worth buying."
Color selection would drive up inventory at dealerships.
Corey, you are killing me……oh goodness, I laughed so hard watching this video this morning. Your RANT is the rant that we all have had. God Bless brother.
I used to chuckle seeing pics/vids of rops v garage doors, thinking “knucleheads”… just got my 3047r, VERY FIRST TIME PUTTING HER BACK IN THE OUTBUILDING - BLAM💥🤣🤣🤣
So listen, having said and acknowledged that roll-overs are no laughing matter, as a green tractor guy, I found the funniest part of the video two guys driving orange tractors both roll-over only moments apart. I'm happy they are okay, or at least appear okay, but funny. Anyway, agreed on nearly all of those except the pedals. You're not wrong Courtney, I just have adapted and have no issues. In fact the only time I ever think about it is after watching one of your videos when you speak about it. Now the next time I go out there to run the tractor, I'll be confused on how to operate it.🤣 The one that gets me the most is the lack of tie-downs, big question mark there, geez Deere come on...probably the others too. Great video.
Nice video Courtney. Yes the pedals can be a pain. I have a JD 4400 and when going in reverse and you want to spin your torso left around to look backwards, it like I’m on my tip-toes to press on the pedal.
My dads down pressure for his 8n ford tractor especially the grader blade was me! I would ride it cleaning out the barnyard and ditch lines.
Good video, I especially appreciated the roll over bar comments since the 4066m I got from you doesn't have a folding ROPS so I can only fit it in one shed but not my heated garage.
With the hydrostat pedals I always assumed that John Deere had the forward and reverse that way because generally the tractor is going forward so it would be more ergonomic to have it on the left side.
Amen, brother! I purchased a sub-compact tractor a couple years ago (BX2380 - my first tractor) to mostly take care of my gravel driveway. I have a small Polaris ranger for plowing and hauling. I have a very hilly yard, and I can't take my tractor hardly anywhere in my yard. The Polaris seems so much safer and stable, and can carry items. I wish I had a tough side-by-side with a loader and a 3-point hitch.
I saw a receiver mounted, electrically actuated 3 point hitch the other day on Amazon. amzn.to/3BkM0s2
Go get your self a bobcat toolcat
@@alexvandybogurt9620 I looked at it years ago - I can't afford it!
@@LAMH They are expensive , sadly so is everything . Happy trails
Hey Courtney. I can't really say what the heck the answers really are, but you definitely checked all my boxes on the annoyances...Thanks for sharing!
Lots of Soviet, Czechoslovakia tractos was made with two way cilinder on rear for downpressure.
Simple solution for the hydrostatic pedal solution. I have a clutch lever. Chutch fork just broke a couple weekends ago. 4 bolts and 1 pin and i popped the part off without even bending over. Oh and also my tractor is all green except a yellow strip on ean side of hood. Gotta love old school 2 cylinders
JD 520, first tractor I ever drove. 62 years ago, I was 7. However, try using that thing with a front loader. We had a TD 6 International dozier, 36 hp. Hand clutch, manual transmission, but at least the shifter was tall and right next to the clutch.
Interesting. 1: Colour choice buy a Valtra (agco group brand), 2: low centre of gravity compact buy a Deutz Fahr Agrokid or a Antonio Carraro (new tractors are actually far less tippy than old tractors and comparable on weight for there power class if anything new tractors especially the compacts are actually heavier than old ones. 3: Want a compact tractor that is like a car to drive Yanmars YT3 series tractors are the pick for you (they are brilliant tractors wish we could get them here Australia and I would of brought one over a JD). 4: Rops height is all about country specific standards and ISO standards. 5: 3 point was designed to be used with ground engaging implements such as a plough and so they needed only to be able to lift the implement, some manufacturers have had downforce on certain models but generally it wasn't used properly and did damage to implements and the tractor as well as causing stability issues. 6: storage well they've always sucked at it but they are much better than the old days. 7 hydraulic power sucks and it's not efficient so to explain, the engine producing mechanical power is then converted to fluid power via the pump this than goes to a valve bank then to either a cylinder or a motor both of which convert that fluid power back to mechanical power resulting in a power loss of +25% a 66hp tractor with 12gpm is producing around 20hp at the outlets at best and that's before you convert that fluid power back to mechanical power. Now if you look at a hydro tractor with PTO say 66hp at the Engine and 52hp at the pto that's a 22% loss. So it's more efficient to drive a implement with the pto than it is with the hydraulics.
I have a theory for the John Deere pedal positioning. I've run earth moving and mining equipment for a long time. Manufacturers of this equipment consistently seem to place controls that are most often used closest to the operator or toward the center of the operator's station. I think the most of us spend most of our time going foward.
Great video concept, Courtney! In responding to the down pressure below and realizing comments were designed to be short, I realized that this idea of "where did that feature come from" would be a great staple for your Tractor Talk format! Most of us have never farmed or worked heavy construction, but since we all love pretending in our "sandboxes," viewers might really get into the "why it was made" concept. It could be common features or even single purpose machines... thanks as always for producing content worth watching and without all the adults behaving badly drama of the networks!
Operator: "Why?"
Manufacturer: "Well, it looks good on paper."
Tractors are a product of legacy. PTO's were an upgrade on the wide belt drive. Hydraulics came along later and didn't offer enough advantages to displace the PTO as the main power transfer mechanism, especially when one considers all the legacy equipment that would have to be converted. In fact hydraulics have some key disadvantages, most notably how inefficient they are as a drive mechanism which results in a tremendous amount of heat that must be managed as well as a reduction in the size of equipment that could be run off a given power train. 3 point hitches also pre-date modern hydraulics, meaning that farm equipment already had a way to be raised and lowered so hydraulics were really only needed to move a cylinder to raise and lower pull-type equipment. Though, when you think about it, the PTO was lucky to come along when it did, otherwise safety regulations would have prevented it from ever becoming a thing.
Hydraulic drive and the big pumps that accompany it make much more sense on skid steer type equipment as they're crashing and banging, forward and back repeatedly. A solid geared connection is much more likely to tear itself apart under these conditions. Tractors have traditionally been gear driven for working the fields and spending long periods in a single direction while maximizing fuel economy.
Going forward, the next big shift will be towards electrification. The PTO will likely survive as a legacy standard because it will allow cheap equipment to continue to be manufactured. But hydraulics may disappear as electric actuators take over. Already, the cleaning and certification of hydraulic oil systems are a huge headache for anyone looking to work in any agricultural area that wants to meet an organic standard. For some reason they don't have the same concern with electron leaks.
I never had a problem with a treadle pedal. But the John Deere's dual pedal does make sense. You go forward more often than backward. If the pedal was at the right, your leg would get tired more quickly. Keeping as close to the center as possible keeps the pedal in a more natural position of where your leg would naturally be. I also don't get the comparison between a tractor and a car. There are two entirely different pieces of equipment. If you can't learn which pedal to push, should you really be operating either? I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but these are serious pieces of equipment. You need to take the time to develop the muscle memory.
Not to brag, but I've never hit my garage door with the ROPs. 😄 On the 1700 series Masseys it fits in a standard garage door without folding. BUT I'm pretty tall, and the ROPS is not a lot taller than me so Deere may be making theirs higher as a safety thing.
The larger row crop tractors are set in their width so they can drive through a corn field without running over crops, same with the height.
On the compact tractors I think its more of a tight space/ ground clearance issue.
With our row crop tractors we can change the width. Several were made narrower when we went from 38" rows to 30" rows. Others are kept wider because they're not used in the field after planting.
@@dfarmer_ true with that. We always had a hay tractor with loader that was spaced out wider for stability and so it would straddle wind rows of hay without running them over then the row crops were spaced appropriately. So we never really messed with moving them in and out.
I like my little green 1025 it does the things I bought it for on 5 plus acres, I'd like to find a reasonable 2 function snow plow, up, down, left and right for front end !
Aren’t the rops sizes regulated to provide so many sq. Inches of protected area?
What percentage of tilt should I be worried about? I have slopes that my "tilt" meter says I'm at 15% I do have wheel spacers and beet juice in the rear tires and my tractor is a sub compact. Thanks
I have a Yanmar YT 347,it has a single pedal for forward and reverse. Left on the column shuttle forward and reverse. It drives like a car. Take a look, the engineering has addressed alot of the issues you mentioned. Also look at A B mode for the hydrostatic transmission, it's on the joy stick of the loader.
The tractor is the most efficient to operate in my 50+ years of operating all the different colors of tractors. PS I also enjoy all your videos, Thanks DonR
I have one too, absolutely love it.
Down pressure was offered in the 4R series literature in 2014 but never actually implemented or sold. I have the literature and tried to get it when I bought the tractor as well. I also tried to put it together at the parts counter but not available in pieces either! Thanks for you time and effort with the always informative videos!
Edit: David Weber has a post indicating that it does exist! Research resumed!
Colour, Valtra, while not offering compact tractors, does have quite a big range of colour options, & in fact, while they start with a basic build, every Valtra is custom built to customer requirements, though an extensive list of options. Fendt also offer a few different colours as well. & both are available with reverse drive & Valtra is more user friendly with that option.
Belarus tractors is one I know of that has down pressure 3pl as standard. Pfanzelt Machinenbau also custom builds tractors based on a Steyr, & these are dual use for both forestry & agriculture. There is probably more out there too that I'm not aware of. From the ones above list, except Belarus (although they may have by now) usually have CVT transmissions as well, depending on the model.
As a hydraulics fitter by trade, hyd power is expensive to both purchase & maintain, & a ballpark figure for efficiency is about 80%, & this is why hyd power has to be big, lots of flow, pressures are getting higher, which creates heat (needs cooling again), the list goes on. If you can use mechanical PTO's, it is a lot more efficient at delivering the power to the implement & a lot less maintenance. The only limiting factor with PTO shafts is to no subject the uni joint to excessive angles, use a dbl H or CV joint if big angles are needed
Color: branding, pure branding. Red used to be Farmall. Nowadays Case IH is yellow, I think because most heavy equipment is yellow regardless of brand.
Tippiness: Tractors were originally built for row crops - that defines the spacing between the wheels. It's like the spacing of railroad rails is defined by the width of roman chariot wheels - which was actually defined by the breadth of the horses. The height is usually based on the diameter of the rear wheels which defines the height of the differential, although I have seen tractors that have offset gearing between the differential and the axles. High differential means high CG, although there's also the factor of being able to pass over most crops. Backhoe stabilizer pads can help prevent tipover - if there's a backhoe attached.
Roll cage: even though the compact tractors are targeted to the consumer market, the manufacturers think in terms of BARNS, not car garages. Or just parking them outside - I think farmers usually don't care too much that their tractors look factory new.
Hydraulics: Tractor hydraulics were designed for controls, ie cylinders, which don't usually need high volume. NOT motors which do need high volume. They're designed to use the PTO for power output.
3-point hitches were designed for row crop attachments which only needed something to lift them for transport. Older tractors didn't even have a 3-point - the Farmall 560 I used to have just had a draw bar - I had to add a 3rd party 3-point.
Forward/reverse: no idea. My Farmall had a reverse gear. My case 580b had a forward/reverse lever on the column - THAT made ergonomic sense.
Talking about ballast and moving your center of gravity I've always thought it'd be a really good idea to put like a 1-inch plate on the floor panel metal weighs a lot that would really lower your center of gravity I would think
That's a good idea. I bet it wouldn't be too crazy to get something to hook up to the belly mower mounts
Good idea for when you're not mowing you can have a drive on skid plate that you can put on underneath that way to keep you're hosing and everything from that random stick or whatnot jamming up inside of your lines🤔🤔🤔
Help flatten some floors.
What floors??
It’s funny that the most slope friendly compact tractor; the Ventrac, has a digital slope gauge. And when it’s getting to 30* on a side slope, you KNOW it. Lol!
Courtney, look at the back of a 3025D . All Iron, and ALL Green !
Courtney, you talk a lot about ballast etc...what is a safe angle to mow etc on sidehills? I have a JD 4720 with cab, fluid in tires etc. and try to mow with my bucket low to the ground. Thanks, Bob
I know what you mean about most of these things. When I first got my JD 4520, I backed it into my barn like I knew what I was doing. When I took it out the next time I looked at the clearance of the ROPS. It only cleared the top of the doorway by about an inch. They say God watches out for children and fools. I keep Him pretty busy. As far as a tilt gauge, I go by the pucker factor. If my butt is trying to grab the seat, I'm on too much of a hill. The tippyness is probably because of the light weight. I had a '65 IH 504 48hp at the engine that weighed 8000 Lbs. with a manure bucket, loaded tires, and 6' Bushhog. My 4520, 53hp at the engine, set up the same way with the exception of the loader, this one is a hydraulic loader, I'm guessing weighs maybe 6000Lbs. Mine is a power reverser so the pedals aren't an issue. But on my JD lawn tractor the pedals are like you say but for some reason I never made the connection to a car. Anyway, I've gotten used to the idiosyncrasies of the tractor and I wouldn't trade it for anything unless the next one was green too.
Tractors are tippy because of the need for ground clearance and seats are high for good visibility...all trade offs. Light tractors have an advantage over heavy ones in that ballast can be added where as weight cant be taken away. I use my L3901 in my tree service with a wallenstien rotator grapple that I mount both three point and loader at times. I had to fight a bit with my dealer about not putting fluid in my tires until I explained that being light on yards is good for me. If I need more ballast when using the loader I grab a big chunk of wood with the grapple. Options are good, knowing your machine limits and not exceeding them whatever the configuration, and being an operator over a driver is important. Hydraulic power packs are so much money so my solution was to buy an entire system from an old Tiger flail mower off of a township road mower. A day in the shop cutting and welding now I have a six foot loader mounted flail mower powered by a great hydraulic pto power pack for about $700. It works really well on brushy undergrowth. I'm sure it will power other things in the future. Hydrostatic pedals what ever they are don't make sense to me. My old cub cadet with a lever by the steering wheel or honda mower with the lever on the right fender and my buddys old massey has a hand lever and pedal all seem to be better. My guess is manufacturers are protecting themselves with the pedal system all someone has to do is take their foot off the pedal and the tractor stops. ROPS are a pain because you shouldn't modify them as the are certified so if you ever sell the tractor or trade it the dealer will ding you hard on value because they have to replace it. Good video for venting frustration on Courtney. I'll try and remember to send you some pics of the equipment I have built and modified for your tractor talk videos... I look forward to those very much.
I would love to see that too!!
I haven’t operated a farm tractor since 1974, but remember operating a 4020 JD with rops. My dad,s old MM U tractor was a little tippy when plowing terraces on our Oklahoma farm, but it was easy to step off the deck🤣.I still love watching sg equipment. If you watch the tractors used for mowing on interstates, most are wide stance and low to the ground and th ey handle some scary slopes. If you look at the OSHA regs, they refer to specific standards developed by engineering companies, but don’t have specific details other than you must have ROPS and a seatbelt, plus operator training on the seatbelt. Be safe!
I think the forward reverse pedals are the way they are so the forward is closer to you since you’ll be going forward more often and won’t have to reach your foot out so far. I have gotten used to the treadle on my kubota. We had a customer buy a Mahindra and would not fit in his garage when it showed up after he ordered it because it was about 6” taller than the specs showed.
Seems to work okay the other way on a car though? I don't feel like it's that far out, but maybe it's because I have long legs :)
I agree I don’t have long legs I’ve never found it confusing. The one that gets me are the smaller lawn tractor, my 345 has the brake pedal and go pedals are on same side . If you are on a incline and trying to get close to something you can’t brake
@@GoodWorksTractors The pedals aren’t directly in front of you like they are in a car.
Courtney, good video. It's only taken me a few and now you are mentioning my Massey. Keep it up! Also, I have a 12 foot roll up door in my shop so I haven't smacked the door yet with the rops up, but I'm sure one of the kids will by not opening the door all the way.
You are so right about the ROPS. I have 3 compact tractors that won't fit in the shed that my 4x4 pick up will.
ROPs height is determined by geometry. Draw a line from the top of the roll bar to the top of the hood (technically, to the top of the weight bearing frame under the hood). That line needs to be above the head of the user sitting in the seat. Shorter tractors need a taller ROPs because of the steeper angle.
Which brings me to dimensions. Narrower tractors will fit into places that wider ones won't. And shorter tractors will have a tighter turning radius. When you're trying to sell a tool that can do as much as possible you make it as narrow as possible with the smallest turn radius. (The end customer can always add width, but can never subtract width...and short can be offset with front or rear weights.)
The reason John Deere folks want green attachments is because they paid so much for that green paint, so if ya' got it, flaunt it! (I have a Gator that's almost identical to the Kawasaki Mule from the same year; every part for the Gator is twice as much as the same part for the Mule because that green paint is REALLY expensive!) :)
Oh, and the right/left pedals on Deere and pretty much everyone but Kubota....the inboard pedal is forward because it makes for a narrow stance when driving. Pressing the outboard pedal puts a little extra fatigue on your hips and thighs, and forward is used a lot more than reverse. In your car, the pedals are directly in front of you, but on the tractor they're displaced off to the right.
Ventracs are very stable. Wide & low. Articulates both ways. And angle meter on board, too. And fits under a garage door.
You can increase hydraulic output somewhat on John Deeres. Visit Hydrosplus.
Yep, non standard pedal configurations cause problems. retroactive inhibition. It's why you still reach for the clutch pedal when you switch over to an automatic.
I may be biased, because I’ve only owned JD, but the Twin Touch seems intuitive to me. The go pedals are on the right and the stop pedal is on the left. I get the car analogy, but it’s just an extra go pedal over there. I have used the treadle pedal on a Kubota that I rented before I bought my 2025R and it was the most frustrating thing on it, and ultimately kept me away from Kubota as an option for a compact. I wear a size 13, and it was awkward to use, going in reverse was similar to your experience, but the biggest pain was that there was nowhere comfortable for my foot to be. It also made entry/exit from the right side difficult. It almost seems silly that something as simple as a pedal kept me from buying an otherwise quality tractor. Like you said, where’s the focus group?
You and me both. I borrowed my neighbor's Kubota a few years ago to spread a load of shell rock. That treadle was very tiring for my old right leg. Two months a I bought a JD 1023. Perfect.
Excavators have two treadle petals and I don’t hear complaints about them. Larger hydraulic pumps require more horse power. 3 point down pressure has the potential of lifting the rear tires off the ground and maybe causing a unsafe condition. I assume that the ROPS bar are designed to prevent the tractor from rolling over; thus, if they were shorter they might not work. If a manufacturer could make a ROPS shorter and still have it work, it would save them manufacturing cost; so, I’m sure they would already be shorter.
Tractors were always designed for farmers and some construction only in the past few years has almost every homeowner wanted a tractor however I agree with what you are saying they all need to wake up
Guess they save money on R&D. Everything comes down to $$. I have added lights, cameras, and other things that would of been nice to have in my color orange from the factory. I get the farmers running a business and needing to save money but a lot of us buy these and want accessories offered at the factory.
The reason tractors are lighter weight now is because a lot of them have to be shipped from overseas and making them lighter is less cost to ship as they ship a lot of things be weight. That is why a lot of hoods are plastic now, they weigh less.
Colors are easy- we don't always get close to a tractor working somewhere, so making a brand recognizable from a distance makes sense from an advertising mindset. The JD twin touch pedals- that's an easy one too......you spend more time going forwards than backwards and having your leg and foot more centrally located in relation to your body is simply more comfortable, especially over longer periods, plus your thigh isn't close to, or rubbing against the loader joystick when your foot is closer to the center stack.
GWT subcompact stump bucket best of it's kind!!!
First time tractor owner bought a 1997 MF 231, spent an hour trying to figure out the best location to use for a tie down location that wouldn't cause damage to something else.
Positive down pressure is a great idea on a 3 point hitch until you actually use it, then you realize it’s completely useless. For draft equipment, the more down pressure you add, you lift your drive tires off the ground, so less traction. Using a rear blade on ice or hard pack snow is is even worse, add down pressure, again less traction, with the addition of loss of control, especially if going down a hill.
Makes sense. Instead add weight to the attachment. Maybe weld a bracket on it to put suitcase weights on, etc.
Your so right about tractors being tippy
Our New Holland Workmaster has forward and reverse pedals. I love that I can just barely push the pedals and go as slow as I need to. Most rollover structures can be lowered. We completely removed ours in order to work inside turkey houses. The only fault I have with our tractor is that the fuel tank is right behind the seat. Makes it hard to see whn hooking up to something with the drawbar
I'm a bit of a mediocre grade engineer myself so here's my thoughts...
Color: Cheaper to provide equipment with a single color. Less SKU's. Also brand identity is critical and marketing becomes easier. Color is a preference option that provides no real performance over your competition in the brochures.
Tippy: You mentioned they are tippy if you're not on perfectly flat ground. These machines need ground clearance because they're mostly used on non-flat ground. Also steels have gotten better, and stronger so less is needed to achieve the same strength. You can make it wider, but that limits maneuverability. (There's surely many other factors as well.)
Hydraulic vs PTO: PTO is just simpler, cheaper and more reliable. Also tractors were not traditionally designed for using front tools besides a bucket. They're pulling tools.
Foot Pedals: Most of the time you're moving forward. Placing the forward pedal on the left is more ergonomic that the right. Less forced leg spread. The treadle is logical with front for forward and back for rear, but the details of the pedal connection is quite varied and can make the experience good or bad. Shuttle shift is the most like a car, but it's more expensive.
ROPS: If you draw a line from the tip of the hood to the top of the ROPS. I'm guessing that it would provide just enough clearance for a tall operator if the tractor were to flip upside down. Also by making it shorter, you're more likely for a full rollover rather than just stopping on it's side. There's likely some wiggle room they could work with, but cutting it too close on safety equipment could lead to ugly lawsuits if it doesn't provide the required safety cushion in an accident.
As I've been getting more into tractors, I have many of the same questions you asked here. It's like they refuse to join current trends with ergonomics and user interfaces!
Thank you! Always interesting!! Food for thought, do you have a catalog of everything you sell ?? I am still old school! Like to hold something besides my laptop computer to look up new products!!
Completely agree on the height\clearance issues! I see so many folks hitting their door opening with the ROPs.
There were a few companies that had the down pressure but the problem is with down pressure is u lose traction when you lift the tires off the ground
Greatest tractor channel!
As I understand it when three point hitch came out it wasn't the best option but certain manufacturers had patents on their systems, so as it went on it was who could produce more and what was more friendly to competition that won.
I have a 2019 JD 3025E. When I need to turn my body around enough to see clearly what I am doing, I would not be able to keep my right foot on the forward pedal. That is probably why they use that configuration.
I added 3” bora wheel spacers after 40 hours on my new 1025r. Was the best thing I’ve added for stability. I went with the steel option for the added ballast weight over aluminum.
If the ROPS on my 2025r was 2 inches shorter it would also not bend the top link on the 3 point hitch if the imatch is installed. If you have it down and bring up the 3 point all the way up the ROPS will bend the top link. Does it sound like this happened to me? Thanks for the great videos.
Color is for sure Brand recognition, if you haven't looked at the Styling of Kubota and Kioti lately, their body styling is VERY much the same in the hood design!
PTO power vs Engine has always been my gripe point HP is measured differently than before, and pre 60s tractor were measured by Belt power! (A 2N Ford can pull a 2 bottom plow at 22+/- hp, where my BX2200 can struggle to pull a middle buster!)
As far as tippy.....ALL tractors are tippy, it takes a little common sense to be alert in possible situations, I think!
As always, your videos are enjoyable and full of useful information!
I like Kubota's HST plus pedal, the short aluminum one. It's super easy to push down with your toe for both forward and reverse. Forward is on the right of the pedal, reverse is on the back.
💥 I’d like to see an option for either twin touch or treadle pedal. You would think someone would make a kit by now. 🤔
*Keep on tractoring!*
Agreed!
Well Jon I have a idea but it is still a few projects back on my list😁I am share someone will beat me to it😂👍
And also maybe a Cruise control and a hand lever for forward and back 🤷♂️
@@frankemswiler2836 I have a reverse lever on my '05 JD 4520. It's a power reverser not a hydrostatic tyranny. I can shift into reverse while going forward and not stopping. It's very handy when I'm brush hogging. The dealer told me I could be going forward in road gear and throw it into reverse without the clutch. The tractor slows down then goes into reverse. The only thing you have to remember that when you do that, reverse will be the same speed as you were going in forward. I prefer the power reverser to hydrostatic but to each his own.
@@douglaspost5097 agreed on that. I have the shuttle shift on my Kubota. Same as the power reverser. Wouldn't have it any other way. Also no hydrostats robbing power.
Lol,, Your absolutely right about the " Roll Bar" ,,, I had to take mine completely off,,, cut 2" out of it and weld it back , grind and sand it smooth , prime and repaint it for 2" ! I was gonna brag on your Ball cap though . Absolutely Love Kuiu ! BUT ,,,,,,,,,, BUT ! WHAT THE CRAP IS UP WITH THOSE SHELVES IN YOUR SHOP ? I think you should do a complete video on them ! That upper shelf looks like you used Cardboard for the shelf material !
LMAO !
It was free, haha! Figured I’d beef it up down the road…one of those “when I get around to it” things 😂
Trail Blazer makes a reasonably priced Pto power pack for their 44 inch loader mount brush hog. It is under $2k and it will give you 400 pounds of ballast when you fill it up with hydraulic fluid. This is enough to run their brush hog. We should be getting ours sometime in March. Unfortunately probably the end of that month. Like everyone else, they have production challenges.
I think the color on the tractor brand is similar to the "badge" on cars to identify the brand.....plus the color is like advertising for people not close enough to read the names. "Drive by" name recognition.
Talking about small hydraulic systems. I'm pretty sure they hydraulic reservoir in too small for backhoe operation. Really noticeable pump whine when you get on to much of a slope.
I have ask many of those same questions. Especially the ROPS bar that won't fit under my garage door without folding it down! They must know it is a problem or they wouldn't make it fold down.
Glad you reminded me about height clearance!
Best video yet, you are absolutely right! Especially the rops too tall and color paint
I bought a new 4052R from a dealer with a 3PH down pressure kit already on it. (I didn’t order it) I never use it. I don’t have a post hole digger and really have not found a real need to use it.
Great points! You would think one of the tractor building companies would build a hilly terrain model with a lower CG, wider stance etc. Are they just not listening or what? Thanks
As far as color, it would raise the issue of having to keep parts like hoods, fenders... any part that's normally painted in the brand colors, in a variety of popular colors or have the added cost of being painted to match the color of your tractor. Unlike a car, those parts are much more likely to need to be replaced simply because of the environment tractors are subject to.
Not having storage space has turned into one of my biggest pet peeves. Where to store the simple tools you need out in the field to fit problems that come up, a place to store spare pins or chains or.... arrrrrggggg! lol...
Right! Storage space and tie downs!
@@phil4483 I third that!
ROPS. I got a 9.5' high storage container to store my tractor.
Color. They do it as free advertising.
Storage. Heck if I know. Mine is packed full. I hang an old cantle saddle bag on my ROPS for extra stuff.
Treadle pedal on my L3560. I like it but I don't use my heel for reverse. I use my toe for both. My brake is on the left side for left foot use.
Awwww man, you do such GOOD WORKS on tractors...
I have had 3 John Deere tractors with the pedal setup you talked about. I agree with your thought process but I think its the most comfortable with the forward pedal on the inside....I have also used Kubotas pedal as well.....I'm sure in time you could get used to it but...honestly its awful to use.
Talk about WHY why do i need to change wheels(rims) to go from one style tire to another. I have R4 tires wanted to go to the versa turf tires and was told that I needed to change wheels(rims) as well..to the tune of 3K.Common ridiculous
I dont know why manufacturers have gotten away from making low profile machines in the 50-75hp range. Just bought a new 5075e almost a year ago now and it's just about worthless without something heavy on the three point. Haven't gotten around to filling the tires yet but it's coming. My old Ford 4610su has never scared me on uneven ground and I've never had the rear tires off the ground. They've always had water in them though.
Just bought a used 5075e cab. I put 50 percent filled rimguard in the tires. Quick hitch with heavy hitch on the back for weights. I can take the rear weights off easily that way. Well I have a forklift. So I can cheat that way. Heavy hitch is because I also bought a grapple. Messing with trees. I might want more weight then filled tires. Otherwise I might have filled the rear tires more. Forgot about the heavy hitch. Make sure you have the tires mounted on the wide side. Some farmers do use the smaller tractors for row crops. So they want more clearance under the tractor. So the tractor itself does not knock the crops down. Or rip the leaves more.
Tilt gauge question is easy to answer. Purely a liability issue.
I kind of disagree. I feel like a $5 tilt gauge with clearly marked "DO NOT EXCEED" limits would cover the manufacturer even more. Hell, I'm sure that Japan, Korea, or China could make one with a buzzer and a warning light for less than that.
@@dustyphillips3166 I don’t think so. You just know some guy on a slippery hill going too fast is going to end up on his lid anyway, and he will go to court saying he was on the right side of the do not exceed label. Either that, or they would have to make it at a super safe level to avoid that risk, and it would start buzzing when one hub was an inch lower than the other side.
You can hit a rut on flat ground and flip a tractor going to fast
My answer on the hydraulic vs pto power. PTO power is a lot more efficient. There is a lot of lost power just because the fluid is compressible as compared to a direct mechanical connection. I had a seven foot mower on a T320 Bobcat skid loader. Running it on a hot day would overheat the skid loader even if I wasn't using the air conditioning. It's about a 90 horsepower machine. For comparison, I now have a 8 foot mower on my 1655 Oliver (70 PTO hp) and it can work all day long and it stays in the operating range of the gauge. Skid loaders are great, but they are not the answer for every single job.
I have a compact John Deere and love the pedal system. Firstly the brake pedal is to the far left it is left foot operated. I am on a hill block so a lot of the time my left foot is hovering over the brake pedal while operating the machine in forward or reverse. The forward pedal inside is keeping your leg in a straight line. In reverse operation, quite often we are turning and looking over our shoulder. The natural movement through your torso automatically brings your leg out to counterbalance your movement pretty much in line with the outside reverse pedal. So if you are twisting to the right your leg moves further out right. If you are twisting to the left your right leg will still automatically move out to the right. So the pedal position was only strange for the first couple of operations on the machine. As for the ropes bar. Coming forward and higher on the angle gives more safety margins above your head. I am 5'8" so dropping the whole set up for me would still give me plenty of safety margin above my head. If however I were 6'5" it would be a different story. A lot of people I see for some reason drop the rop bar to its lowest position when shedding it. If you place your pins in the middle hole on the John Deer the top part of the rop bar sits at a right angle facing back which is great, because to put it back in the drive position you are pushing it up rather than lifting the heavy bar from almost a vertical downward position. I for one think the knuckleheads have got it all pretty much spot on 😅
My International 300 Utility had hydraulic down pressure on the two-point fast hitch.
Excellent to hear I’m not the only one boggled at the tippyness of tractors. They never progressed from their original configuration unlike cars, which also started out high and with engines way up in the air and huge hoods. The three point hitch is hopelessly outdated too. Why we still use dangerous and fragile PTO shafts instead of hydraulics & hoses (for bush hogs, for example) is beyond me. With a little innovation and mass production the price would drop.
They should engineer a decent tool box somewhere on tractors. always a pain in the ass to walk back to the truck or barn to get a tool.
Add a place for small amount of fuel. Better to have it so you can run back to the barn. Running out in the field is a horrible day with most tractors. Only have to do it once to learn that lesson.
JD 3020, a deep, long toolbox was molded into the bodywork under the left side of the seat. An 18 inch Crescent wrench easily fit into along with a big hammer and other wrenches. My cab tractors, JD 4440 and 4250 had a good sized toolbox bolted to the frame in front of the step. Big enough for those tools also. My JD 1023E has a small toolbox bolted on the right to the back of the RPOS. Good for smaller wrenches.
I bolted a medium sized ammo box on box blade.
Better than nothing.
The money spent why not a decent factory tool box.
I know that technically we aren't supposed to alter our ROPS, but I was thinking about it. Then I realized that if I lowered it and sat on the backhoe seat I would be bouncing my head off it constantly. I mounted my backhoe higher on the frame for the ground clearance
Its called common sense. Tractors are built to use a multitude of different equipment. The basic trator can not be set to operate every piece. That is why there is auxiliary add on equipment. Now when selling a bucket, or other equipment, there should be a list of recommended add ons necessary to operate safely.
Good video. I put mounted mirrors to assist my view at the back of the tractor.
Amen, totally agree on fit in garage opening issues. Really simple solution s and that's why it's so annoying!
Keep up the great content👍👍👍
Thanks for watching Fynn!
@@GoodWorksTractors thanks
Hello Cortney !!!! What do you think about the Ventrac tractors ????
Heard Kioti does a pretty good job
For one Color thing, it’s for brand recognition without seeing the name. There is one large ag tractor brand that does allow a little bit of Color choice called Valtra
Are there any episodes concerning increasing the lift capacity of the front and loader on a tractor? For many years John Deere produced two different loaders for the same tractor. The thought process behind that makes no sense to me. For instance, my tractor was equipped with a 300 X loader versus a 300 CX loader. Are there different hydraulic cylinders or hose kits that will enable me to increase lift height and capacity without searching for and finding a 300 CX loader. (We know how difficult that task can be.)