Nice job of covering all the aspects of rings. I've tried the zero gap second ring once in a NA application. Leak down and compression was great: used oil like a tanker, couldn't get it to seal up until I changed out the zero gap second ring. Thanks for passing along your knowledge. j
Woo Hoo! Awesome vid. You kinda validated some of my goofball theories and taught me some new stuff. I raced you & Tom at DW '19 in my Franklin. Want to get freaked out? The car is n/a, about 5.5:1 compression, 2500 RPM max. I run 3/32, 3/32, 3/16 rings. Top is square, 2nd is Tortional Twist, oil is symmetric bevel cast iron. I have all rings back cut to .125 radial thickness, gap is way open because they were butting up... the old air cooled engine runs pretty hot so: .020 top, .022 2nd, .020 oil (3.28" bore). The previous builder put standard 1949 Pontiac 248 rings in it: barrel top, square 2nd, 3 piece oil. With all rings installed the radial pressure was ~26 lbs. With my stupid package it dropped to ~5 lbs. It used a ton of oil for the first 5k miles but after that it stabilized and works pretty good. So what do ya say? Can I have a job? LOL
I am pretty comfortable with wrenching but I never really dove into the science behind ring sets, I usually just install them per instructions or the dot. This makes me pretty happy because now I have a better understanding of "reasoning" behind some engine builders odd (to me) choices. Thanks, always look forward to seeing knowledge videos from epic engine builders.
Great comment on second ring cap I learn to subdue in a 7.3 diesel had major excessive Gap on second ring we thought the ring Grinders messed up but we learned that the second ring was made bigger for the combustion gases passing that pass first ring allowing the first ring to work more efficiently
Have you tried chrome top rings? I know you mainly go super high end power stuff but say someone wanted a 1200hp bbc to go 100,000 miles? Wouldn’t a standard steel be pretty worn out by then.
Interesting . Makes sense I've always done the second ring tighter . Always noticed in engines I put together with using lots of nos that the first ring looked beat up and would actually get carbon between the rings .. wonder if it was the top ring fluttering
Ahh " Hastings " in 76', I was 16 doing my first ever engine rebuild to my first car... 69' Chevelle SS, on the L72 427 (still have all the parts... lol) . Anyway... I put " Hastings " rings in that motor... so your comment took me back there... an added bonus to " STEVE TECH " this morning, thanks brother! 《To this day I can remember every part, every clearance, and every piece in my head photographically, whew... EVEN the BLACK BOX with " HASTINGS " emblazoned on the front... 》 Thanks! Seth
Once again I am truly impressed by the common sense knowledge and experience of Steve Morris. I have worked with my share of engine builders, and nearly all for SC LS's in the last few years, and all with Holley EFI - I guarantee none of them has 1/2 the knowledge of how to make the power and reliability of SM. Why my next engine or at the very least all the components are coming from SM. Thanks Steve!
Interesting take. I just seen a interview between total seal and kasse. Jon focused on the piston ring groove gap as the biggest area of detail in each application. The flutter you mentioned was addressed because of that gap. On gas port designs it was found to leak much more past the inside of the rings then the wall side. I believe some manufacturers are adding a steall ring groove within the pistons to carry tighter ring packs. To me that makes alot more sense with the top ring and the heat you mentioned.
Always know what ring you have before designing a piston. Gas ported shelf pistons leak more because they have a universal ring groove radial clearance. Setting the ring groove to a specific radial dimension for a specific ring's radial thickness is key, and will seal a ton better. The thicker the ring, the more the ring has the ability to transfer heat into the bore wall, which is cooled by the coolant. Thinner rings do not do as good a job.
Awesome video. I'm looking for serious information on cylinder wall distortion. Meaning I've tested a few engines that were honed with torque plates and have round holes. Bolt the heads on and flip it upside down and distortion is all over place. I'm sure this is a very guarded secret and very few builders will take the many hours of extra time to correct. But, any info at all would really be appreciated.
I wonder how much shit Steve blew up learning how to make an engine live? Hastings Michigan? Use to race Snowmobiles out at the fairgrounds. I wonder if Steve ever climbed on a quick one?
👍 Good tech vid! I agree with you, but I am old school. I won’t sacrifice reliability for a few horsepower either, same goes for low viscosity oil. A few extra horsepower n/a or boosted isn’t worth it. I prefer longevity.
Thx, your videos are a wonderful library of practical hi-perf engine building info. Something I'd like to know: what are the pros and cons of running a piston with pin bores that intersect the oil ring groove? I've noticed that OEM engine designs (I think) never use this configuration. I understand the obvious pro of allowing either a longer rod or larger crank stroke to fit into a given block deck height, but are there also some less obvious differences?
Ha ha ha .... @ around 9:40 in the video, what you didn't see was Steve thought he was done and going to get to eat his hamburger and the kid was like "Dad, what are you doing ? We got 20 more minutes over content to cover"!! "Dangit .... I'm hungry...come on guys, let's eat first" !! Well, that's what I was feeling anyway. LOL
Thank you for the info on rings Steve. Got one question for you on tops of pistons. I know lot of piston companies sell pistons with with coatings for the tops of pistons, what is your thoughts on a highly polished finish for the tops of pistons. Was just sitting here thinking about it while watching and learning from your video.
I'm just curious if you ever use the Total Seal rings, particularly the Gas Port ring setup? Or, a vacuum pump for the crankcase pressure relief, or an oil tank?
As an ex skateboarder, I really loved the video add before this even starts. I haven't even watched the actual video yet. Hell yeah! Skateboarding is so much fun!
Steve Morris Engines,What are your thoughts on gapless top rings?I like them myself and have always had good results but never had anything at the power levels you play with.
May be a dumb question but I come from the diesel side of things and was curious as to why the boosted spark ignition motors are not using a keystone top ring? Is it due to the piston ring groove being too soft and the keystone ring would just beat itself out? I imagine the cylinder pressures in these 3,000 hp motors are nearing and or exceeding the pressures in the diesel producing the same 2500 ft lbs to a methanal turbo motor producing the same 2500 ft lbs. just from a curiosity stand point. On our end the forged pistons w/o the ni cast insert for the top rings do not last long in the diesel world.
Good lesson Steve ! You ever build a Chevy V-6 ? Blew my V-6 in my 2015 Camaro. Trying to decide rebuild or LS swap. Built several LS's just not a V-6. Is it worth it?
Man the eyebrow on that button looks thin and scary. I would tighten the second land up to shorten compression height to get more material in the button eyebrow or increase comp height so button doesn’t run into the second land thus not needing a eyebrow. I worked in engineering for Miller @ BME. He taught me a whole lot. When designing a piston you start with the ring stack he always preferred ductal rings. I like the .017 or .043 dykes over vertical or radial gas ports with low tension rings. 75-80% of the combustion heat is transferred to the cylinder wall via the top ring. With the trend of going to shorter vertical face rings. You must anodize the ring groove to inhibit the blazing hot compression rings from micro welding it’s self into the groove. NASCAR guys and their .5mm rings pay 100$ a piston just to anodize the top groove. Getting the Ring stack as strong as possible while keeping the compression height as short as possible eliminating flex in the crown via short pin boss towers.
Whats your opinion on stainless top rings, late 80s early 90s 5.0 HO engines had stainless and can take hellatios abuse and still have 5-15% leak down at 200k miles with very minimal oil consumption if any noticeable between oil changes. Ive used the same rings, this is the 3rd block, and at last check had 12% LD on the worst cylinder. On a mild 351W with 20-25psi primarily track use and random street driving to and from local track, whats your thoughts on ring package?
Sorry about my spelling I was not set on autocorrect also been watching all your vids lately with Cletus his first six second pass and the Midwest drags and also Tom Bailey can't wait to get mine together so I can indulge thank you much again you'll be hearing from me very soon
I've never used zero gap in a gas engine but I have on diesel builds. Never had any problems. Oil stays cleaner a lot longer. I do run boost up to 22 psi so nothing crazy. Top ring is different than gas engines. It's tapered. I always thought the zero gap ring should be the top ring. Not sure why they don't do that.
CRAZY COOL STEVE BEST DESIGN & ENGINEERING VID SERIES OUT THERE THANKS.ITS SEEMS SO RIGHT TO KNOW THE HOW AND WHY FROM TOP ENGINE DESIGN AND BUILDER YOUNG GEARHEAD CRACK IS WAT THESE VIDS R U AND UR SON WOW CONGRATES TO U BOTH
Hey brother what’s your opinion on those gapless piston rings I have a blown small block Ford and i’ve read a lot of good things about them but I think most of it is probably sponsored and and they are not easy to change and an afternoon if something is wrong and you’re lucky enough it didn’t cause major damage it’s very obvious you know what you’re doing so I would greatly appreciate your advice
Steve. Please talk about ring phasing and how it's done correctly / differently for boosted application's than NA. You did start explaining it, but I think other's would like more details on how you phase your rings on a boosted engine. Just saying. As always. Loved thee informative comments/ video. Keep up the great work. 👍
It's only an intial setup thing, once the engine is running all the rings spin so they will move in and out of phase becuase they all rotate a different speeds.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Outstanding quote, "making horsepower isn't the problem, making stuff live is the problem."
absolutely!!
Totally Agree
Accurate assessment, plain and simple... lol
Steve is the man with a wealth of knowledge. I just love this stuff
Thank you for delineating between supercharged, nitrous and naturally aspirated engine ring packages, very informative.
Nice job of covering all the aspects of rings. I've tried the zero gap second ring once in a NA application. Leak down and compression was great: used oil like a tanker, couldn't get it to seal up until I changed out the zero gap second ring. Thanks for passing along your knowledge. j
Woo Hoo! Awesome vid. You kinda validated some of my goofball theories and taught me some new stuff. I raced you & Tom at DW '19 in my Franklin. Want to get freaked out? The car is n/a, about 5.5:1 compression, 2500 RPM max. I run 3/32, 3/32, 3/16 rings. Top is square, 2nd is Tortional Twist, oil is symmetric bevel cast iron. I have all rings back cut to .125 radial thickness, gap is way open because they were butting up... the old air cooled engine runs pretty hot so: .020 top, .022 2nd, .020 oil (3.28" bore). The previous builder put standard 1949 Pontiac 248 rings in it: barrel top, square 2nd, 3 piece oil. With all rings installed the radial pressure was ~26 lbs. With my stupid package it dropped to ~5 lbs. It used a ton of oil for the first 5k miles but after that it stabilized and works pretty good. So what do ya say? Can I have a job? LOL
Thanks Steve i learned alot about piston rings in this short video
You should do a video on clocking piston rings 👌🤯🙌🤘
Once again Steve. Teach us your preferred method on ring phasing. I and many others are looking forward to your advice.🤔 Seriously.
Great info on the rings. Appreciate the sharing of knowledge
I am pretty comfortable with wrenching but I never really dove into the science behind ring sets, I usually just install them per instructions or the dot. This makes me pretty happy because now I have a better understanding of "reasoning" behind some engine builders odd (to me) choices. Thanks, always look forward to seeing knowledge videos from epic engine builders.
Great comment on second ring cap I learn to subdue in a 7.3 diesel had major excessive Gap on second ring we thought the ring Grinders messed up but we learned that the second ring was made bigger for the combustion gases passing that pass first ring allowing the first ring to work more efficiently
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Steve. Love learning all these little intricate tips on how you build top notch engines.
1/16th or .60 got it...
Great info...
Most transparent and highly educational
..thankyou....
Best explanation ever on the How's and Why's of piston rings set up 👍
Have you tried chrome top rings? I know you mainly go super high end power stuff but say someone wanted a 1200hp bbc to go 100,000 miles? Wouldn’t a standard steel be pretty worn out by then.
Love your companies work! Just wish u could afford the engine lol Like how you do these videos as well and give back some good info!
Interesting . Makes sense I've always done the second ring tighter . Always noticed in engines I put together with using lots of nos that the first ring looked beat up and would actually get carbon between the rings .. wonder if it was the top ring fluttering
Always go same or bigger on the second ring. Never tighter.
Ahh " Hastings " in 76', I was 16 doing my first ever engine rebuild to my first car... 69' Chevelle SS, on the L72 427 (still have all the parts... lol) .
Anyway... I put " Hastings " rings in that motor... so your comment took me back there... an added bonus to " STEVE TECH " this morning, thanks brother!
《To this day I can remember every part, every clearance, and every piece in my head photographically, whew...
EVEN the BLACK BOX with " HASTINGS " emblazoned on the front... 》 Thanks!
Seth
I all ways called the oil rings ( rings) your the first one I’ve heard calling them rails, nice , thanks BigAl California.
I love learning from one of the best. Thanks, Steve.
Once again I am truly impressed by the common sense knowledge and experience of Steve Morris. I have worked with my share of engine builders, and nearly all for SC LS's in the last few years, and all with Holley EFI - I guarantee none of them has 1/2 the knowledge of how to make the power and reliability of SM. Why my next engine or at the very least all the components are coming from SM. Thanks Steve!
Interesting take. I just seen a interview between total seal and kasse. Jon focused on the piston ring groove gap as the biggest area of detail in each application. The flutter you mentioned was addressed because of that gap. On gas port designs it was found to leak much more past the inside of the rings then the wall side. I believe some manufacturers are adding a steall ring groove within the pistons to carry tighter ring packs. To me that makes alot more sense with the top ring and the heat you mentioned.
Always know what ring you have before designing a piston. Gas ported shelf pistons leak more because they have a universal ring groove radial clearance. Setting the ring groove to a specific radial dimension for a specific ring's radial thickness is key, and will seal a ton better.
The thicker the ring, the more the ring has the ability to transfer heat into the bore wall, which is cooled by the coolant. Thinner rings do not do as good a job.
Always awesome.... You are on my "if i won the lottery" list
Thanks heaps for your information Steve. The knowledge you have much appreciated. 💯👍 Aussie Fan 🤟🇦🇺😎
Another day of learning.. thank you Steve for taking the time to educate us!!!
Awesome video. I'm looking for serious information on cylinder wall distortion. Meaning I've tested a few engines that were honed with torque plates and have round holes. Bolt the heads on and flip it upside down and distortion is all over place.
I'm sure this is a very guarded secret and very few builders will take the many hours of extra time to correct.
But, any info at all would really be appreciated.
Steve Morris is a god damn genius .
You kiss your mom with that mouth
I wonder how much shit Steve blew up learning how to make an engine live? Hastings Michigan? Use to race Snowmobiles out at the fairgrounds. I wonder if Steve ever climbed on a quick one?
steve good explanation thanks we are watching your channel from croatia.
👍 Good tech vid! I agree with you, but I am old school. I won’t sacrifice reliability for a few horsepower either, same goes for low viscosity oil. A few extra horsepower n/a or boosted isn’t worth it. I prefer longevity.
Thanks for passing on the knowledge
What’s your thoughts on and Have you ever run any gapless top rings in a boosted application?
Awesome tech talk thanks Steve for sharing your knowledge you are truly gifted
My family has always used hastings rings great to hear your from there... I'm in Australia.
"I'm not really a ring guy"....proceeds to explain all you need to know about rings......
Thx, your videos are a wonderful library of practical hi-perf engine building info.
Something I'd like to know: what are the pros and cons of running a piston with pin bores that intersect the oil ring groove? I've noticed that OEM engine designs (I think) never use this configuration. I understand the obvious pro of allowing either a longer rod or larger crank stroke to fit into a given block deck height, but are there also some less obvious differences?
Ha ha ha .... @ around 9:40 in the video, what you didn't see was Steve thought he was done and going to get to eat his hamburger and the kid was like "Dad, what are you doing ? We got 20 more minutes over content to cover"!!
"Dangit .... I'm hungry...come on guys, let's eat first" !!
Well, that's what I was feeling anyway.
LOL
Thank you for the info on rings Steve. Got one question for you on tops of pistons. I know lot of piston companies sell pistons with with coatings for the tops of pistons, what is your thoughts on a highly polished finish for the tops of pistons. Was just sitting here thinking about it while watching and learning from your video.
Does nothing. Just like a highly polished chamber or port. Removing sharp edges is one thing, polishing? Unnecessary.
I'm just curious if you ever use the Total Seal rings, particularly the Gas Port ring setup? Or, a vacuum pump for the crankcase pressure relief, or an oil tank?
I have used Hastings rings for ever. Love them.
So have I and never had a problem.
This guy is giving away all the sauce 👏 thanks for the knowledge my guy your work is amazing
Are you planning to cover the subject of piston to wall clearance during your cylinder finish video?
I didn't think I would be learning anything new about rings today but now I feel like I knew nothing about them... 👍
As an ex skateboarder, I really loved the video add before this even starts. I haven't even watched the actual video yet. Hell yeah! Skateboarding is so much fun!
Steve Morris Engines,What are your thoughts on gapless top rings?I like them myself and have always had good results but never had anything at the power levels you play with.
Your the man Steve. I could watch this all day.
One of the best channels on the tube , thank you mr Morris
May be a dumb question but I come from the diesel side of things and was curious as to why the boosted spark ignition motors are not using a keystone top ring? Is it due to the piston ring groove being too soft and the keystone ring would just beat itself out? I imagine the cylinder pressures in these 3,000 hp motors are nearing and or exceeding the pressures in the diesel producing the same 2500 ft lbs to a methanal turbo motor producing the same 2500 ft lbs. just from a curiosity stand point. On our end the forged pistons w/o the ni cast insert for the top rings do not last long in the diesel world.
Good lesson Steve ! You ever build a Chevy V-6 ? Blew my V-6 in my 2015 Camaro. Trying to decide rebuild or LS swap. Built several LS's just not a V-6. Is it worth it?
Always a great explanation of different types of components and uses. 👍
225👍's up Steve M thanks again for taking us all along with you for the great information
Thank You for putting this out there. Once again thank you
Cool stuff. My mower is going to cut the grass SO HARD!
Cant get enough !!!! Keep it coming please !! HAVE A GREAT DAY !!!!
Man the eyebrow on that button looks thin and scary. I would tighten the second land up to shorten compression height to get more material in the button eyebrow or increase comp height so button doesn’t run into the second land thus not needing a eyebrow. I worked in engineering for Miller @ BME. He taught me a whole lot. When designing a piston you start with the ring stack he always preferred ductal rings. I like the .017 or .043 dykes over vertical or radial gas ports with low tension rings. 75-80% of the combustion heat is transferred to the cylinder wall via the top ring. With the trend of going to shorter vertical face rings. You must anodize the ring groove to inhibit the blazing hot compression rings from micro welding it’s self into the groove. NASCAR guys and their .5mm rings pay 100$ a piston just to anodize the top groove. Getting the Ring stack as strong as possible while keeping the compression height as short as possible eliminating flex in the crown via short pin boss towers.
Whats your opinion on stainless top rings, late 80s early 90s 5.0 HO engines had stainless and can take hellatios abuse and still have 5-15% leak down at 200k miles with very minimal oil consumption if any noticeable between oil changes. Ive used the same rings, this is the 3rd block, and at last check had 12% LD on the worst cylinder. On a mild 351W with 20-25psi primarily track use and random street driving to and from local track, whats your thoughts on ring package?
Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge Steve.
Awesome video Steve , your Steve Tech videos are very informative !!
Love your stuff. God bless and keep on keeping on
Thank you Steve. That was a lot of good info.
Great explanation Steve. Thanks
I so enjoy your tech videos. Thank you Steve.
Sorry about my spelling I was not set on autocorrect also been watching all your vids lately with Cletus his first six second pass and the Midwest drags and also Tom Bailey can't wait to get mine together so I can indulge thank you much again you'll be hearing from me very soon
Thanks for straightening that out for me, low tension, gapless rings pertains to N/A, not boosted application's
Coffee is poured looking forward
What are your thoughts on gas ports and coatings?
Thanks for sharing very helpful information
Good info Steve, as usual. Thanks!
The Master with another Lesson.
Love the content brother keep up the amazing work!!👊👊
Steve tech rocks😎
My understanding is that Hastings makes most of the piston rings and that many other companies rebox. What say you?
I've never used zero gap in a gas engine but I have on diesel builds. Never had any problems. Oil stays cleaner a lot longer. I do run boost up to 22 psi so nothing crazy. Top ring is different than gas engines. It's tapered. I always thought the zero gap ring should be the top ring. Not sure why they don't do that.
Thank you so much ! Great series !
As always a wealth of knowledge! Keep the information coming.
Good feedback - thx Steve
CRAZY COOL STEVE BEST DESIGN & ENGINEERING VID SERIES OUT THERE THANKS.ITS SEEMS SO RIGHT TO KNOW THE HOW AND WHY FROM TOP ENGINE DESIGN AND BUILDER YOUNG GEARHEAD CRACK IS WAT THESE VIDS R U AND UR SON WOW CONGRATES TO U BOTH
Anyone else catching that Nickelodeon vibe from your new orange and white thumbnail title screen.
Thank you Steve!
Awesome video!
Thanks for explaining things so clearly.
Hey brother what’s your opinion on those gapless piston rings I have a blown small block Ford and i’ve read a lot of good things about them but I think most of it is probably sponsored and and they are not easy to change and an afternoon if something is wrong and you’re lucky enough it didn’t cause major damage it’s very obvious you know what you’re doing so I would greatly appreciate your advice
What's the best name brand piston ring to buy for Boosted engine.
Great content thanks for sharing, very informative
Thanks for the schooling.
How about TOTAL SEAL?what is your opinion about them. I know they work well in endurance engines.
Luv the tech. Best info on rings ever.
How about a gapless top ring and gap the second ring?
Opinions on the total seal gapless rings?
What about using a gapless top ring only? Won't that help reduce blowby without pressurizing the region between the top two rings?
Pure gold info!
Great videos. Thanks for sharing.
Steve, What is the minimum/maximum clearance between the inside of the radial dimension to the piston groove in a boosted application?
Steve. Please talk about ring phasing and how it's done correctly / differently for boosted application's than NA. You did start explaining it, but I think other's would like more details on how you phase your rings on a boosted engine. Just saying. As always. Loved thee informative comments/ video. Keep up the great work. 👍
It's only an intial setup thing, once the engine is running all the rings spin so they will move in and out of phase becuase they all rotate a different speeds.
@@shanerorko8076 lol NO
@@puppetmasterblaster Yes the rings will spin just like the lifters, valves, springs, retainers and push rods all do.
Does anyone make a napier second ring for the 5.3l LS? I'm tired of parts guys asking what it is!
top fookin bannana
nice one steve
DAMN I love this channel! 😊🤘🏻
Awesome video.
Steve what about the total seal rings in the a roots blown engine race only
Boost is boost. Same deal.
I'm thinking that the Napier second ring is not something you would use on a street engine. What sort of life span would these have?
again ty for sharing
Love this guy and my head hurts
I love the great info!!! Thank you!!!
Steve do you find any Benefit to the Eagle ESP armor process applied to rods or crankshafts ?