@@jordandietrich4236 it's literally in the Comprehensive Rules that this doesn't win. Doesn't stop your opponents from conceding, but if you read my whole post, my point is that you shouldn't play it in a high stakes cEDH tournament, as if there's any sort of adjudication you're the one who's going to get penalised, not your opponents.
@@HalcyonVentures Technicality, but this would be covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, not the Comprehensive Rules. MTR is the one explaining which shortcuts are allowed.
@@HalcyonVentures This is incorrect. The reason Four Horsemen doesn't work is because Eldrazi shuffle themselves into the deck. Neither Loaming Shaman nor Endurance can do that with this combo because their ETBs will resolve before they become 0/0s with the next activation, and because Endurance bottoms Loaming Shaman instead of shuffling the absolute worst you can do is Shaman egging into Endurance egging into every creature egging into Shaman.
Spoiler Comment: Been a big fan of featuring wins from non-Thassa's Oracle strategies. It's a given those will dictate most pods, but it's been nice to see recent games featuring Gruul and Naya decks going off. While Blue/Black will always be necessary for most pods, it's nice to see other strategies go off when players position themselves into advantageous positions. There's an added spice that most players are unfamiliar with Gruul and Naya strategies that the instant win-combos add more to the overall appreciation for deck building.
my god, that atla palani win was the most creative way to win i have ever seen (on this channel) i would absolutely love it if we could see more unique brews like this being featured on future videos (i absolutely don't care for whatever proxy you use)
One of my three CEDH decks. Not my most played, but it's fun to pilot. I'm not only happy to see it played, but thrilled to see it win one of the games.
Blinded by value might be the most accurate description to make a move which doens't adress the current problem at all, but is too good not to do it. We've all been there.
That's a lot of cards that I've never seen in cEDH (to be honest, I've never seen these cards anywhere) and it feels so great. Out of Time will definitely find a place in my profilate deck. :o
Hey do you guys think you could add some way to indicate how many cards are in players hands. I think it's an important part of understanding the decisions players make in the game.
If you replace Loaming Shaman with Nantuko Tracer, the loop becomes deterministic if it gets to target Endurance in your yard just one time. Since your library isn't shuffled, you will always hit everyother creature in your library first (sparkmage and Nantuko being the most important) before hitting endurance again. After that point, each time Endurance puts your graveyard on the bottom of your library (random order or not) you will have completed a single iteration of the loop, where Endurance is in play and there are no cards in your graveyard and a single point of damage has been done to an opponent, thus progressing game state.
that mirror entity is a non determinative loop though isn't it? there's a chance it stalls out by hitting the two shuffle cards in the same set of triggers between entity activations resolving
Endurance only bottoms cards, so even if you hit loaming shaman, leave it as the only card in the grave, and hit endurance immediately after, loaming shaman is guaranteed to be the last creature after you go through your entire deck
Isn't there a chance the egg combo fails? If both the loam shaman and endurance hit the field between shapeshifter triggers, would they not have any other method of shuffling them back in?
I think it will only have a chance to fail if the initial egg trigger has two or more eggs. When you have two egg triggers, it can flip into one of the recursion, resolve its ETB, then move on to the next egg trigger. It flips to the other recursion, resolve its ETB, then Mirror Entity trigger is next on the stack. Unless you can shuffle one of the two recursions before they die, the loop then fizzles. If the initial egg trigger only has one creature, then it would always flip one creature at a time, never allowing both recursions to stay in the battlefield at the same time. Then according to other comments under the video, the loop will continue and eventually guarantees you to flip the pinger everytime Endurance hits the field. One of the loop flow would be: 1. Flip into Endurance 2. Empty graveyard, does nothing 3. Flip into Loaming Shaman 4. Shaman shuffles Endurance to deck 5. Flip into Endurance 6. Endurance puts Shaman in the BOTTOM of the deck 7. Flip into creatures that are not the Shaman 8. Eventually flip into Shaman 9. Repeat step 4, this time shuffling Endurance + all of the creatures and pingers you have. If you flip into Loaming Shaman first, the loop would start at step 3 and it goes normally. It is somewhat 'deterministic'.
Did Phillip keep that opening hand just because of the kitten, even though he knew he'd have to topdeck at least two lands/rocks to get into the game? Death by greed, people.
The new creatures that come from Atla's eggs were not on the field when the last Mirror Entity ability resolved, so they'll enter with their usual P/T until the next ability resolves. During this window, because they have haste, Jordan can activate their abilities in response, and if they have ETBs, they'll go to the stack on top too.
Alright, so the Atla combo had 2 eggs die to Mirror Entity on the 1st trigger (a token and Mirror Entity), so then 2 Atla triggers go onto the stack after the Mirror Entity triggers. There is a slight chance that the first trigger flips into Endurance, bottoms the graveyard, then the second Atla trigger flips Loaming Shaman, and shuffles nothing. Then the 2nd Mirror Entity trigger kills both, and the combo is dead. Once you've gone through your deck without killing the combo, I believe it can then loop infinitely from this point, but technically it's still non-deterministic (I think). Trying to figure out the logistics at 5 AM while sleep deprived is tough😅 Theoretically, if you just add 100,000 triggers each time you inevitably flip Mirror Entity, it'll eventually be lethal, but Four Horsemen is also "eventually lethal", so...Use with caution.
That Changeling Atla Palani combo is neat. Technically, isn't it non-deterministic? Since the Mirror Entity dies from its ability, you have to choose the number of abilities on the stack beforehand. Theoretically, the deck could find its graveyard shufflers over and over before encountering either the pingers (to deal damage and approach the end of the game) or the Mirror Entity (to put new abilities on the stack) enough times to exhaust the initial stack of Mirror Entity ability uses, breaking the combo. Thus, there is a slight (infinitessimally small) chance for it to fail.
It is deterministic because if you hit both shufflers you'll end up with loaming shaman at the bottom of your library thus always hitting your pingers. If it wasn't for endurance's weird ability it would've been non-deterministic
I think it's not infinite though, but for a different reason. If both shufflers etb at the same time (multiple death triggers happened at the start), then they can't shuffle the other one back in when they die.
@@sirshylordy5538 like I said it does not, if it did atla would be worded "if one or more egg creatures dies... until you reveal that many creature cards, put them onto the battlefield" but because she's worded as an individual trigger, she put creatures one at a time. Hope it's a bit more clear to you :)
16:16 Why can you tap and activate the ability? I thought the Creatures die due to state based actions first? Or is it because it is state based, that they live long enough to get their abilities onto the stack?
Because he can halt priority before the next Mirror Entity trigger resolves. the becomes X/X ability does not effect creatures until it resolves and only creature in field when it goes off. So it goes them entering -1,000,000 Mirror entity triggers-> Halt priority-> Activate ability to ping-> Resolve ability-> Restart loop. alternatively he could do this and place an infinite number of ping 1 triggers on stack before resolving them.
Because, Mirror Entity only affects stuff on the field when it resolves. That's why it needed 100,000 triggers. Atla Palani flips a pinger, they enter with their assigned P/T, then you respond to the next Mirror Entity trigger by tapping them. Then the next trigger resolves, setting everything to 0 again.
Does the morbid devil/cunning sparkmage line actually work though? Since it comes in as a 0/0 you can't actually activate it due to state based actions right? I use inferno titan and purphorous based on this reason but would like input!
They come in as their OG power/toughness, then, in response to one of the mirror triggers, activate their ability to ping someone. Mirror resolves, they become 0/0 eggs and die.
Who told Philip that opener was a good idea? Like fuck maybe on a mull to 4 or 5 but that hand was hot garbage on an fresh 7. Likely got greedy seeing kitten. Shame.
If you watched game 2, this is par for course for his keeps - heavy on rocks, light on lands to exploit the ETB, but Philip is exceptionally greedy even by normal standards
How can Atla keep trigging even though she's dead? I get that the eggs that were on the battlefield at the moment the billion morphling activations start resolving, die at the same time as her (so she triggers), but how can new creatures enter the battlefield > become a 0/0 > die > trigger Atla (she would be on grave at this point no? Cause she's now a 0/0)
@@jordandietrich4236 I disagree, in the case that Atla only needs a creature tutor and any buff to go off, after he revealed that he had the creature tutor and then tutored with wish claw, getting rid of out of time doesn't make sense
You're right - Mirror Entity bypasses hexproof. The hexproof is just meant to protect Atla from opposing removal. The real "protection" is the +2/+2 boost, which causes Atla to be a 2/2 when Mirrror Entity's ability resolves, thus surviving it.
@@DarkEinherjar but if I read the ability right, mirror entity ability doesn't exclusively affect creature's base P/T so Atla should be 0/0 no matter the P/T buff she gets
@@felix699 Mirror Entity's ability only changes the base power and toughness. It doesn't change modifications from counters or other effects. Therefore, Atla is a 0/0 with a +2/+2 buff, so a 2/2. Look up the rulings for Mirror Entity in Gatherer.
fwiw other Atla lines can use +1/+1 counters to get around the mirror entity, which it only affects base p/t. super cool combo that I hope to build one
It's possible that Jordan would always get Endurance or Loaming Shaman before a pinger. Thus that combo should've never have been shortened let alone been legal due to slow play.
Wrong. Because there are only two recursion creatures in the deck, only one of them will be in the deck at any given time. Endurance needs to bottom Loaming Shaman which needs to shuffle Endurance, and the Loaming Shaman will never be in the deck at a time when one of its own egg triggers is resolving. Therefore, the loop is deterministic, as even with maximally bad luck the worst you can do is loaming shaman egging into every creature except the pingers, then Endurance, bottoming shaman, egging into pinger pinger, every creature shaman.
@@Frommerman you are forgetting that there was more than one egg so both shufflers could hit the field/grave at the same time. if you add a shuffle titan then you can keep looping but then you might not ever hit the pingers. having no eggs except the entity itself is sure to cycle the grave endlessly also but the same possibility of never hitting the pingers before the shuffles exists.
@@WrekCreationL Endurance puts cards on the bottom of the library so in the case of only one egg, endurance puts shaman on the bottom of the library making the combo deterministic.
IIRC, most casual Atla Palani decks are centered on cheating out fatties like eldrazi and Blightsteel Colossus, making them extremely vulnerable against beatdown if their engine can't get going.
TL;WR: that Atla combo doesn't actually win the game on the spot TL;WR 2: I'm not saying you shouldn't build it and play it with your friends / relaxed pods. Just don't use it in a cEDH tournament as you'll be DQ'd for slow play because it's a non-deterministic loop. It IS inevitable, but there's a point in the game state where you've got an empty library, and could lose if you're made to draw a card at that point in the loop. So any player has a right to ask you to play the loop out, at which point you'll likely be DQ'd The combo as shown in the video is a non-deterministic "infinite" win condition, very much in the same vein as "The Four Horsemen" Legacy deck. It's not guaranteed that you'll hit one of those two pingers before you hit both the shaman and endurance on any of the MIrror Entity activations, so it doesn't "technically" win the game. Flexible pods will probably give it to you, but if someone's feeling like an a**hole then they don't have to give you the win at that point. Definitely not one to play at a tournament
Wouldn't it depend on how many creatures you have on the battlefield when you intially resolve the mirror entity ability? Because if you have enough creatures at that point you could definitively always hit your win conditions, and when you eventually hit Loaming Shaman you would then be able to choose to shuffle in only the creatures you need to continue your loop. So it would take a few extra steps but I think you can get it to a deterministic win
@@kingofrunescapepking but that's the scenario as described above where the combo doesn't technically work? There is a chance, however infintesimally small, that for every single activation, you hit Loaming Shaman and Endurance as your first two flips, so you never get to the pingers, and you resolve all of your stacked Mirror Entity activations without winning the game. A legal infinite, shortcuttable loop must be able to demonstrate a desired end game state, and to say how many iterations are required to get to that point.
@@thaneofstuff7340 Unfortunately not, as Endurance specifies all the cards in your GY (meaning you can't stack it), and Loaming Shaman has to target when it ETBs, meaning the creatures you want to loop already need to be in your GY when it flips. Ultimately, there's no way to ensure that you flip Endurance and/or the Shaman after the pingers
If they don't get the pingers, they simply shuffle back and try again. With an arbitrarily large number of Mirror Entity abilities on the stack on top of each other, it's just a matter of time. Also, at some point, Jordan would get Mirror Entity back and activate it more times. It would be infinite.
Respectfully, does anyone find the alliteration or random contest joke at the start of the games funny? Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that those two jokes are mostly cringe and could be done away with
That's an amazingly cute combo between Atla and Mirror Entity, never thought of that one before.
It's cute, but it doesn't technically win the game - I've explained why in a separate comment
@@jordandietrich4236 it's literally in the Comprehensive Rules that this doesn't win. Doesn't stop your opponents from conceding, but if you read my whole post, my point is that you shouldn't play it in a high stakes cEDH tournament, as if there's any sort of adjudication you're the one who's going to get penalised, not your opponents.
@@HalcyonVentures Technicality, but this would be covered by the Magic Tournament Rules, not the Comprehensive Rules. MTR is the one explaining which shortcuts are allowed.
@@HalcyonVentures This is incorrect. The reason Four Horsemen doesn't work is because Eldrazi shuffle themselves into the deck. Neither Loaming Shaman nor Endurance can do that with this combo because their ETBs will resolve before they become 0/0s with the next activation, and because Endurance bottoms Loaming Shaman instead of shuffling the absolute worst you can do is Shaman egging into Endurance egging into every creature egging into Shaman.
@@jordandietrich4236 that doesn't help though. vigor only shuffles itself back in
Spoiler Comment:
Been a big fan of featuring wins from non-Thassa's Oracle strategies. It's a given those will dictate most pods, but it's been nice to see recent games featuring Gruul and Naya decks going off. While Blue/Black will always be necessary for most pods, it's nice to see other strategies go off when players position themselves into advantageous positions. There's an added spice that most players are unfamiliar with Gruul and Naya strategies that the instant win-combos add more to the overall appreciation for deck building.
There’s so many viable strategies besides Oracle, I don’t think it will ever become a problem
I love using my human tribal Katilda to sneak in wins with hoof effects. No one suspects little 1/1 humans to all suddenly be mana dorks.
That trickery turning into an Esper sentinel made me laugh way too hard.
my god, that atla palani win was the most creative way to win i have ever seen (on this channel) i would absolutely love it if we could see more unique brews like this being featured on future videos (i absolutely don't care for whatever proxy you use)
Congrats on going full time Ryan!!
That shape-shifter combo at the end was sweet.
Shuffle Alta! My favorite CEDH deck 😊 Glad to see someone else still playing it.
One of my three CEDH decks. Not my most played, but it's fun to pilot. I'm not only happy to see it played, but thrilled to see it win one of the games.
Always love to see an Atla Palani deck!
Atla Palani makes me so happy, utilizing cards that are pennies on the dollar to most cEDH win cons
Blinded by value might be the most accurate description to make a move which doens't adress the current problem at all, but is too good not to do it. We've all been there.
God knows why Phillip kept that hand game 1.
He even got lucky to draw the preordain, then still missed :/
Greed
that was a sick win! kudos to everyone except phillip for keeping that hand game 1 lmao
Great game 2 , it is always nice to see something new :)
Obligatory BIG love for the boggle popper for the dice roll, is that an Elder Drunken Highlander creation?!
As an Atla Palani player (non cEDH), seeing Jordan win was a huge boost of confidence for me.
I hate that UA-cam showed your comment below the video so I saw it before the video even started
Cal's gonna see git probe in his dreams for years
Big fan of the Trouble dice-popper to roll for crypt. Never seen that before and its silly and i love it.
TIL Eldritch Evolution is 'X *or less*'! Never actually seen the card be played and don't own one myself, I just always assumed it was 'pod except 2'.
Always love to see more dinosaur egg lady
That Atla line was cool to see and very weird lol
@@jordandietrich4236 absolutely!
That's a lot of cards that I've never seen in cEDH (to be honest, I've never seen these cards anywhere) and it feels so great. Out of Time will definitely find a place in my profilate deck. :o
Hey do you guys think you could add some way to indicate how many cards are in players hands. I think it's an important part of understanding the decisions players make in the game.
We did that a long time ago but it was so much extra effort for so little gain.
If you replace Loaming Shaman with Nantuko Tracer, the loop becomes deterministic if it gets to target Endurance in your yard just one time. Since your library isn't shuffled, you will always hit everyother creature in your library first (sparkmage and Nantuko being the most important) before hitting endurance again. After that point, each time Endurance puts your graveyard on the bottom of your library (random order or not) you will have completed a single iteration of the loop, where Endurance is in play and there are no cards in your graveyard and a single point of damage has been done to an opponent, thus progressing game state.
In before the end of the video.. I'm just professing my love for Shorikai. Hope it wins
Bout time I see Out of Time in a game, best creature wipe as it locks down commanders
that mirror entity is a non determinative loop though isn't it? there's a chance it stalls out by hitting the two shuffle cards in the same set of triggers between entity activations resolving
Endurance only bottoms cards, so even if you hit loaming shaman, leave it as the only card in the grave, and hit endurance immediately after, loaming shaman is guaranteed to be the last creature after you go through your entire deck
@@knightofthenorth926 it's not getting one creature at a time
Isn't there a chance the egg combo fails? If both the loam shaman and endurance hit the field between shapeshifter triggers, would they not have any other method of shuffling them back in?
I think it will only have a chance to fail if the initial egg trigger has two or more eggs. When you have two egg triggers, it can flip into one of the recursion, resolve its ETB, then move on to the next egg trigger. It flips to the other recursion, resolve its ETB, then Mirror Entity trigger is next on the stack. Unless you can shuffle one of the two recursions before they die, the loop then fizzles.
If the initial egg trigger only has one creature, then it would always flip one creature at a time, never allowing both recursions to stay in the battlefield at the same time. Then according to other comments under the video, the loop will continue and eventually guarantees you to flip the pinger everytime Endurance hits the field.
One of the loop flow would be:
1. Flip into Endurance
2. Empty graveyard, does nothing
3. Flip into Loaming Shaman
4. Shaman shuffles Endurance to deck
5. Flip into Endurance
6. Endurance puts Shaman in the BOTTOM of the deck
7. Flip into creatures that are not the Shaman
8. Eventually flip into Shaman
9. Repeat step 4, this time shuffling Endurance + all of the creatures and pingers you have.
If you flip into Loaming Shaman first, the loop would start at step 3 and it goes normally. It is somewhat 'deterministic'.
Funny that MIKE plays Eleven et Hopper
Yo that AtLA list is bonkers
I love when Philip makes bad decisions 🥰🥰🥰
Did Phillip keep that opening hand just because of the kitten, even though he knew he'd have to topdeck at least two lands/rocks to get into the game?
Death by greed, people.
How can you activate the creature if it’s a 0/0
Or is not a 0/0 until another mirror entity another activation resolves?
Correct, the creatures enter as their printed P/T, then have a window where their effects can be used before Entity resolves
The new creatures that come from Atla's eggs were not on the field when the last Mirror Entity ability resolved, so they'll enter with their usual P/T until the next ability resolves. During this window, because they have haste, Jordan can activate their abilities in response, and if they have ETBs, they'll go to the stack on top too.
yoooo i want that atla palani deck list... i need some of those combos lol that loaming shamin with mirror entity is nastyyy
Alright, so the Atla combo had 2 eggs die to Mirror Entity on the 1st trigger (a token and Mirror Entity), so then 2 Atla triggers go onto the stack after the Mirror Entity triggers. There is a slight chance that the first trigger flips into Endurance, bottoms the graveyard, then the second Atla trigger flips Loaming Shaman, and shuffles nothing. Then the 2nd Mirror Entity trigger kills both, and the combo is dead.
Once you've gone through your deck without killing the combo, I believe it can then loop infinitely from this point, but technically it's still non-deterministic (I think). Trying to figure out the logistics at 5 AM while sleep deprived is tough😅
Theoretically, if you just add 100,000 triggers each time you inevitably flip Mirror Entity, it'll eventually be lethal, but Four Horsemen is also "eventually lethal", so...Use with caution.
That Changeling Atla Palani combo is neat. Technically, isn't it non-deterministic? Since the Mirror Entity dies from its ability, you have to choose the number of abilities on the stack beforehand. Theoretically, the deck could find its graveyard shufflers over and over before encountering either the pingers (to deal damage and approach the end of the game) or the Mirror Entity (to put new abilities on the stack) enough times to exhaust the initial stack of Mirror Entity ability uses, breaking the combo. Thus, there is a slight (infinitessimally small) chance for it to fail.
It is deterministic because if you hit both shufflers you'll end up with loaming shaman at the bottom of your library thus always hitting your pingers. If it wasn't for endurance's weird ability it would've been non-deterministic
I think it's not infinite though, but for a different reason. If both shufflers etb at the same time (multiple death triggers happened at the start), then they can't shuffle the other one back in when they die.
@@sirshylordy5538 no worries, atla's ability has separated triggers. It can't bring multiple creatures on the battlefield at the same time.
@@kofalmg3636 it brings them back at the same time with relation to mirror entity triggers, but having a shuffle titan gets the job done too
@@sirshylordy5538 like I said it does not, if it did atla would be worded "if one or more egg creatures dies... until you reveal that many creature cards, put them onto the battlefield" but because she's worded as an individual trigger, she put creatures one at a time. Hope it's a bit more clear to you :)
I don’t understand why the combo keeps going if Atla Palani gets sacrificed too, so she isn’t there when they sac all the eggs the second time?
What is Mike's Playmat?!?!
I'd love to have Cal's playmat. Anyone know where I could get one ?
16:16 Why can you tap and activate the ability? I thought the Creatures die due to state based actions first? Or is it because it is state based, that they live long enough to get their abilities onto the stack?
Because he can halt priority before the next Mirror Entity trigger resolves. the becomes X/X ability does not effect creatures until it resolves and only creature in field when it goes off. So it goes them entering -1,000,000 Mirror entity triggers-> Halt priority-> Activate ability to ping-> Resolve ability-> Restart loop. alternatively he could do this and place an infinite number of ping 1 triggers on stack before resolving them.
Because, Mirror Entity only affects stuff on the field when it resolves. That's why it needed 100,000 triggers.
Atla Palani flips a pinger, they enter with their assigned P/T, then you respond to the next Mirror Entity trigger by tapping them. Then the next trigger resolves, setting everything to 0 again.
Cal, do you remember why you got Chrome Mox instead of Mox Opal in that first game?
That atla win was cool but I’m a little confused doesn’t mirror entity kill it self and thus stops the loop?
It does but it doesn’t stop the loop. The abilities are already in the stack
why in the world Phillip would u keep that opening hand?
Hell yeah Cecily + Sophina!!!!
Does the morbid devil/cunning sparkmage line actually work though?
Since it comes in as a 0/0 you can't actually activate it due to state based actions right?
I use inferno titan and purphorous based on this reason but would like input!
They don't come as 0/0. They come with their printed p/t and became 0/0 only when the next mirror entity activation resolves.
They come in as their OG power/toughness, then, in response to one of the mirror triggers, activate their ability to ping someone.
Mirror resolves, they become 0/0 eggs and die.
Ahh gotcha, man the stack is a mess sometimes for me
Who told Philip that opener was a good idea? Like fuck maybe on a mull to 4 or 5 but that hand was hot garbage on an fresh 7. Likely got greedy seeing kitten. Shame.
If you watched game 2, this is par for course for his keeps - heavy on rocks, light on lands to exploit the ETB, but Philip is exceptionally greedy even by normal standards
How can Atla keep trigging even though she's dead? I get that the eggs that were on the battlefield at the moment the billion morphling activations start resolving, die at the same time as her (so she triggers), but how can new creatures enter the battlefield > become a 0/0 > die > trigger Atla (she would be on grave at this point no? Cause she's now a 0/0)
Blossoming Defense gives it +2/+2. Mirror Entity gives it base power and toughness 0/0, but that means it's a 2/2.
Layers. Mirror Entity applies in Layer 7b, Blossoming Defense applies in Layer 7c. So, it remains a 2/2, despite Entity making everything 0/0
I hope Cal Wins
Cal👍🏽
Can we go back to good quality?
No
@@PlayingWithPowerMTG Did yall switch to live games or something?
Jordan is a ghost lmao
23 minutes new record for me too
Phillip really botched these games. Keeps an unplayable hand in game 1 and then king makes Jordan in game 2.
@@jordandietrich4236 I disagree, in the case that Atla only needs a creature tutor and any buff to go off, after he revealed that he had the creature tutor and then tutored with wish claw, getting rid of out of time doesn't make sense
33 seconds ago, a new record for me.
I thought mirror entity ability is non-target ability, so Atla with hexproof should get affected by mirror entity ability. Cmiiw
Atla got the +2/+2 before, so her base power and toughness becomes 0 but since she got buffed, she doesn't die.
You're right - Mirror Entity bypasses hexproof. The hexproof is just meant to protect Atla from opposing removal.
The real "protection" is the +2/+2 boost, which causes Atla to be a 2/2 when Mirrror Entity's ability resolves, thus surviving it.
@@DarkEinherjar but if I read the ability right, mirror entity ability doesn't exclusively affect creature's base P/T so Atla should be 0/0 no matter the P/T buff she gets
@@felix699 Mirror Entity's ability only changes the base power and toughness. It doesn't change modifications from counters or other effects. Therefore, Atla is a 0/0 with a +2/+2 buff, so a 2/2.
Look up the rulings for Mirror Entity in Gatherer.
fwiw other Atla lines can use +1/+1 counters to get around the mirror entity, which it only affects base p/t. super cool combo that I hope to build one
PLAY
WHIRLWIND
DENIAL
11:43 mike loses 2 life instead of gaining it. oops!
It's possible that Jordan would always get Endurance or Loaming Shaman before a pinger. Thus that combo should've never have been shortened let alone been legal due to slow play.
@@jordandietrich4236 that saves Endurance, not the other spell.
Wrong. Because there are only two recursion creatures in the deck, only one of them will be in the deck at any given time. Endurance needs to bottom Loaming Shaman which needs to shuffle Endurance, and the Loaming Shaman will never be in the deck at a time when one of its own egg triggers is resolving. Therefore, the loop is deterministic, as even with maximally bad luck the worst you can do is loaming shaman egging into every creature except the pingers, then Endurance, bottoming shaman, egging into pinger pinger, every creature shaman.
@@Frommerman you are forgetting that there was more than one egg so both shufflers could hit the field/grave at the same time. if you add a shuffle titan then you can keep looping but then you might not ever hit the pingers. having no eggs except the entity itself is sure to cycle the grave endlessly also but the same possibility of never hitting the pingers before the shuffles exists.
@@WrekCreationL Endurance puts cards on the bottom of the library so in the case of only one egg, endurance puts shaman on the bottom of the library making the combo deterministic.
@@durza7173 if things were different they wouldn't be the same, agreed
I feel like Shorikai just cant get there.
lol, Atla Palani is too weak for casual play, but wins in competitive
IIRC, most casual Atla Palani decks are centered on cheating out fatties like eldrazi and Blightsteel Colossus, making them extremely vulnerable against beatdown if their engine can't get going.
I played Eleven/Hopper for about a month. I couldn't make it work but I'm hoping I see a win here.
Hello!!!!! I saw that jorden doesn’t have any pronouns, are they non binary or use neopronouns by any chance? Or is this just an accident
He wanted them omitted by choice. We honor all pronoun requests, including exclusions.
@@jordandietrich4236 shoulda had your pronouns set to Free/Omelettes that win was sick 🤘🤘
TL;WR: that Atla combo doesn't actually win the game on the spot
TL;WR 2: I'm not saying you shouldn't build it and play it with your friends / relaxed pods. Just don't use it in a cEDH tournament as you'll be DQ'd for slow play because it's a non-deterministic loop. It IS inevitable, but there's a point in the game state where you've got an empty library, and could lose if you're made to draw a card at that point in the loop. So any player has a right to ask you to play the loop out, at which point you'll likely be DQ'd
The combo as shown in the video is a non-deterministic "infinite" win condition, very much in the same vein as "The Four Horsemen" Legacy deck. It's not guaranteed that you'll hit one of those two pingers before you hit both the shaman and endurance on any of the MIrror Entity activations, so it doesn't "technically" win the game. Flexible pods will probably give it to you, but if someone's feeling like an a**hole then they don't have to give you the win at that point. Definitely not one to play at a tournament
True, which is why the combo works best if Entity is the only creature dying to its own ability the first time it resolves
Wouldn't it depend on how many creatures you have on the battlefield when you intially resolve the mirror entity ability? Because if you have enough creatures at that point you could definitively always hit your win conditions, and when you eventually hit Loaming Shaman you would then be able to choose to shuffle in only the creatures you need to continue your loop. So it would take a few extra steps but I think you can get it to a deterministic win
@@kingofrunescapepking but that's the scenario as described above where the combo doesn't technically work? There is a chance, however infintesimally small, that for every single activation, you hit Loaming Shaman and Endurance as your first two flips, so you never get to the pingers, and you resolve all of your stacked Mirror Entity activations without winning the game. A legal infinite, shortcuttable loop must be able to demonstrate a desired end game state, and to say how many iterations are required to get to that point.
@@thaneofstuff7340 Unfortunately not, as Endurance specifies all the cards in your GY (meaning you can't stack it), and Loaming Shaman has to target when it ETBs, meaning the creatures you want to loop already need to be in your GY when it flips. Ultimately, there's no way to ensure that you flip Endurance and/or the Shaman after the pingers
If they don't get the pingers, they simply shuffle back and try again. With an arbitrarily large number of Mirror Entity abilities on the stack on top of each other, it's just a matter of time.
Also, at some point, Jordan would get Mirror Entity back and activate it more times. It would be infinite.
Respectfully, does anyone find the alliteration or random contest joke at the start of the games funny? Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that those two jokes are mostly cringe and could be done away with
Thassa's oracle.... Good I just skipped to check that and leave.
Well then you missed out. Because the other decks did awesome things.
Jordan has no pronouns?????? Sus
I turned it off when I saw he/him and unsubscribed.
Bye