Sony PMW-F3 Review (2020)
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2020
- Camera: Sony PMW-F3
External Recorder: Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q+ / BMD Video Assist
F3 Codec: ProRes 4444 XQ / ProRes 422 HQ / 23.98p / 60p / 1920x1080 / S-Log
F3 Lens: Sigma / G.L Optics 18-35 ART / Sigma 24-105mm ART
F3 product shots filmed on the PMW-F5 in RAW
Grading: Davinci Resolve
Editing: Vegas 15 Pro
F3 and SCL-Z18X140 lens test courtesy of emeeme on Vimeo: vimeo.com/113855882 - Фільми й анімація
For anyone interested I noticed that Genus Tech are still selling the F3 Top Cheese Plate for a really low price: www.genustech.tv/GCP-F3-Genus-Top-Cheese-plate-for-Sony-PMW-F3-Cam-p/gcp-f3.htm
I mostly shoot with my F55 these days, but when I still shot with my F3 and Odyssey 7Q+, I would run the F3 in RGB 444 video mode, that way I could use S-Log as a gamma curve in the picture profile, but still use whatever white balance I wanted. F3 is still one of my favorite cameras ever
Like another commenter, I really appreciate this review and at the same time wish this camera would stay a hidden gem! haha. As someone who has only recently started doing a deep dive on this camera, I love getting the perspective of someone who has been living with it for a long time - yours is hardly the only F3 video that's been made this year, but most of them are from a discovery perspective, not a long time use perspective. In regards to the mention you made to the menu system, it's definitely true that the menus are very messy. But what I find interesting in looking at these early digital cine cams is that so much about them was about forging a new path in the digital era. Naturally, the solution was not going to be refined right off the bat, and the plethora of options they wanted to give the operator simply mean a whole lot of menu! What I do love from this camera and F35 especially is the obsession with keeping the good things about the film look in the sensor. It's amazing to see just how well that image holds up in 2020.
Thank you for your comment. I agree, the images are still sterling even today. What amazed me the most as an owner of many Sony cameras is how good the color is on the F3. The only camera that I own that competes with the F3 color is the F5 but only when recording in RAW. The F5 menus are way more complicated however once you have your settings dialed in you never have to go back in to the main menu again as it has a quick menu system that Sony copied from the Alexa. Sony are still learning and it will be interesting to see what the next breakthrough will be from them. The new A7S III looks like it has a simplified menu system.
I do feel that the higher the resolution of the sensor the less cinematic if feels. Film has a organic look that looks soft and beautiful. Looking at the Sony Venice footage from the new Top Gun film, it feels sterile and clinically sharp. It looks like a computer game to my eyes. I'm sure modern lenses also play a good part in this too but I'm starting to think that anything over 12MP is overkill for video. Or may be I'm just getting old and need to get with the times. Cheers
that looks impressive! I wanna buy one now because of you
Still a great camera nearly 10 years latter.
Safety not guaranteed was shot on the F3 as well
Safety Not Guaranteed is one of my favorite films of all time! I had no idea!
Good review! The F3 is a fine camera. Note: The 444 dual link upgrade is still available for $1,200 USD by contacting Sony Pro directly. To use this feature you will need a 444 dual link recorder and they are EXPENSIVE
Oh about the lens you mentioned I found one new in the box
But it’s crushed by the collapsing happens in the warehouse
Sad to see it destroyed
Theat happens in late 2022
Fantastic review!
Thanks for watching.
THX ! Great review
Epic video!
Thanks for making this video!
I always liked the look of the F3 and found it to be quite similar to an Alexa. There was still a difference but especially at that time it was one of the closest cameras to the Alexa IMO.
With the recent announcement of the DZO Film zoom optics for EF and PL mount I started to consider this camera again as I was always a big fan of it but never figured out a good "low cost" solution for the lenses. I always prefered to have EF lenses due to them being compatible with a lot of cameras. But PL is quite a nice option and these new lenses are really well priced for what they can do.
Thank you for watching.
I believe the Alexa has some secret filter in front of the sensor that is copyrighted by ARRI that helps with the highlight roll off.
Those DZO Pictor S35 Zoom lenses look phenomenal for the price. I think they would work great with the F3. The beauty of the DZO lenses are you can swap the mount from PL to EF so they would be perfect for you. Once you go PL you won't go back. Still lens mounts feels like a toy when compared to PL mount. Cheers
@@JasonBagherian Good point! PL also opens the world to a lot of other interesting camras like the F35, SRW-9000PL, Alexa Classic and more. And the DZO Zooms are really well priced!
@ Let me know if you ever buy them. Cheers
Hi Jason, love your style of filming! Question: do you need a crazy expensive monitor to grade the footage of this cinema gem? Or would a 4k LG Monitor with the usual rec 709 colorspace (capable of 10bit though) be enough? Thanks in advance for your input🙏🏼
I use an ASUS sRGB monitor which is only 8bit. The LG sound great. Get what you can afford. The more you shoot and grade, the better you get. Cheers
Thanks for your reply and support. I checked the link but it goes to a dead end. I’ll try to contact Sony. If there’s no other ways to upgrade to 4K then I would stick to S-log 422 as it looks fine at 10 bits uncompressed.
Thank you for your help.
Thank you for the review Jason! I can get 444 f3 for 1500$ and basic version for 500$. I want to get extra option and that time i dont want to pay more in 3 times for 444, but. Is there a big difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 prores?
Thanks for your prompt reply. I checked last night and found out that my firmware is 1.45 but I don’t have the 444 in it. What can I do to record 444?
Many thanks once for all your help.
To output in 444 you need to purchase the CBK-RGB01 software key as seen here: pro.sony/en_GB/products/software-licences-and-updates/cbk-rgb01
It is basically software that was installed on a SxS card that you install on the camera. Sony don't sell this anymore and your best bet is to keep checking eBay. Read this thread here cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/74346-upgrading-an-f3-in-2017/#comments
This 3ality armor looks soooo much better than the stock handle and zoom rocker. I want to get a F3 and was wandering if it would be easy to remove the stock handle and put other. If i remove the top part of the F3 will it get any boards or internal components exposed? Great content, thanks!
Unless you have the Element Technica top plate I wouldn't risk it. I would wait for a converted Element Technica F3 to pop up on eBay and then you could sell the one you have now. You could just buy the F3 cheese plate from Berkey System which won't remove the top handle but will give you additional mounting points store.berkeysystem.com/sony-f3-top-mount-accessory-plate-with-extension/
Random question, but what do you think of the F3 vs the F5 for general filmmaking. I'm looking for something less than 2000 that has good color and decent low light. I've heard people say that the F5 has worse color compared to the F3, but I just don't like the F3 ergonomically and I need 1080 60fps. I'd be coming from a Gh5. I just really want something that is more professional than the Gh5 because I want to start shooting more doc style with timecode, sdi, etc...
Sorry for a long comment, but I'd love to hear your thoughts!
I would go for the Panasonic S1H and the Atoms Ninja V. It's the perfect camera coming from the GH5. The 5.9K RAW is a thing of beauty. The Sony's are both great cameras but they are big and heavy. The S1H is the best camera I've ever used so far.
@@JasonBagherian Ok, good to know. I was thinking about the Bgh1 or BS1h and might have to pick one up
Thanks!
Surely after all these years, someone has managed to create an open way to enable the 4:4:4 upgrade, or some sort of custom firmware?
Hello, Jason!
I’ve found an F3 for a steal and was wondering if SLog is built into it or is this part of an optional upgrade?
When using this camera, if I record to a Atomos via SDI, will that alone enable me to shoot in 10bit SLog?
Thank you! Apologies. I’m not technical at all 😅.
They
Will I buy one new in box only missing part is the battery I use with full kits 3 prime lens 35mm 50mm and 85mm for 600£
I don’t know what I’m getting my self into but I’m surprise by the camera and the PL kit lens come with it
Only thing is missing the 4.4.4 upgrade
But solid picture
And excellent quality after the last update I did
sdi dual link can connect record in 4K at Atomos?
If you choose 1.5G RGB 444 & S-Log in the menu, you just need to connect the external recorder to SDI A. No need to use the dual link option.
Hi
many thanks for the vieo and info. Could you please tell me where I can download the latest firmware for the Sony F3? Many thanks once again
You can download V1.45 here pro.sony/en_FI/support-resources/PMW-F3L/software/mpengb00000165
Hey Jason! Absolutely love your videos. I just bought an F3 and am having a little trouble with it. I'm hoping to record SLOG onto a BMVA in 10bit. My camera offers SLOG as a picture profile but not as an option in Dual-Link & Gamma Select. In that case, do you know if it is possible to me to record 10bit SLOG onto my external recorder!? Thanks a million.
Thanks for the compliment. It sounds like your F3 doesn't have the CBK-RGB01 installed. You will have to record S-Log as a picture profile and it will still be in 10bit. Set your camera to 1.5 G 422 & Video in the menu. All the best
@@JasonBagherian Thanks Jason!
Great video!
I have not got much experience.
I have a couple old F3's without S-Log and damaged monitors; though low hours used.
Do they output 422 through the SDI?
Was thinking that was the minimum needed for Green Screen.
I have also an S-Log equipped F3.
Was thinking of buying an Atomos Sumo to connect all three and hopefully have 422. recording.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Was thinking 422 would just take more time than 444?
Had been told good lighting is most important.
Sorry for the late reply as I missed your comment. Yes all F3's output 422. You will barley see any difference between 422 and 444 and I've never had any issues grading 422. I've not done much green screen but 444 is desired but as you say it's all about the lighting and you can get good results from 422. I've not used the Atomos Sumo so I can't comment but I think it's used for live switching but please do more research on them.
Again, much appreciated.
Means an external recorder will improve all of the cameras so a wise purchase.
Thanks again sir!
@@backwaterstudiouk That's the crux of Sony. Every camera needs an external recorder to get the best out of the camera. Cheers
Hi Jason, thank you for this. I own an F3 currently and I'm having a bit of a hard time figuring out how to run it off of my v-mount batteries. What have you found to be a good solution? Lastly, would love for you to go further into details about coloring S-log F3 footage in DaVinci.
One last question, how are you dealing with the footage shot on ISO/db higher than 0db/800 ISO. I found anything over 3db to be very noisy. What are you doing in DaVinci to fix the noise problem?
Hi. I use this from Wooden Camera: woodencamera.com/products/wc-v-mount-xlr-4-pin
It gets expensive because you have to buy this to mount the battery plate: woodencamera.com/collections/power-cables/products/battery-slide
And then you will need a rod clamp: woodencamera.com/products/rod-clamp-15mm-lw?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_pid=1521340743753&pr_ref_pid=1521345364041&pr_seq=uniform
If you just want to power an external recorder from the same source you could always buy BP-U batteries with a D-Tap like these: www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Cine/P/BP-98UX
@@Jhonnyb16 I use the noise reduction in Davinci Resolve, it works great. I'm not a great speaker so doing tutorials on grading log footage in Resolve might be awkward for me. I'll have a try and see what I can come up with.
@@JasonBagherian Thanks for the reply, it was very helpful.
@@JasonBagherian I feel you. I hate having to ask technical questions, but I enjoy shooting things dark. I just don't always have the light to light darkness.
wish I had one
Nice review, I found and bought an F3 with rgb on ebay yesterday!
Not sure if I had made a good choice, as some people told me it’s a downgrade compared to my sony a7rii.
But this review tells me it was a good choice :-)
Looking for external recorder, is de gemini 444 still a valid recording option? Since odyssey is so expensive.
Great review!
Thank you. I think you have made a good choice. The Convergent Design Gemini 444 would be perfect if you can find one. Another option is the Pix 240. Enjoy your F3.
Jason Bagherian Hi I have another question, to connect to the odyssey, only 1 sdi connection is needed I assume?
Thanks
@@joerivandenberghe7193 You can also get a Pix e5 recorder. It will give you 444 out of the F3. I have mine for sale if you are interested.
Josue Nunez, I know the e5 is another option, all depends on the price off course -:)
Joeri Vandenberghe we can discuss that over email if you want. If you have a Sony F3 with the RGB upgrade I think you shouldn’t get anything less than a Pix e5.
Awesome f3 vids. To record 10 bit rgb444 on the 7q+, do you have to run both sdi A and B outputs to the odyssey?
Thank you. If you choose 1.5G RGB 444 & S-Log in the menu, you just need to connect the Odyssey 7Q to SDI A. Cheers
@@JasonBagherian Thanks!! Awesome video again and your other f3 vids were also definitely helpful. Maybe we get a video on properly color grading f3 slog.... lolol. Cheers man, all the best!
@@thejrace Cheers
Hello, what is the exact name of the cheese plate on the side of the Sony PMW F3, showing at 0:22?
Research Element Technica F3 Body Armour.
So is there no way to load CBK-RGB01 without the SxS card with key from Sony? I've been looking for a reasonably priced F3 for 6 months and finally found one, only problem is it's original factory firmware... Excellent, detailed vid btw!
Not that I'm aware. Do you have an external recorder that is capable of recording the RGB 444 signal? That would be the Odyssey 7Q or PIX 240. If not you can record S-Log using a picture profile in 422 to a standard external recorder like the BMD Video Assist or Atomos Blade. Or do you mean the camera is on the V1.1 firmware?
@@JasonBagherian Yes the camera is on V1 firmware according to the seller. I don't currently have an external recorder, but will be wanting to get the most out of the F3 and will be buying a recorder soon after buying the camera. So best I will be able to do is 10-bit 422 S-Log by updating firmware (via USB I assume)? And won't be able to get RGB 444 without somehow getting ahold of the CBK-RGB01 upgrade?
@@interferencepattern5409 Yes you can get 10bit 422 without the CBK-RGB01 by choosing S-log in the picture profiles. If you really want the RGB 444 then wait till you find an F3 with it installed, be patient they do show up on eBay. If you do buy this F3 then you will only need a used external recorder like the BMD Video Assist or an Atomos Samurai Blade which should be cheap now on eBay. Firmware is updated on a SxS card. If I remember correctly the card has to be formatted with no footage on it but instructions are given with the firmware. You can find the F3 firmware here: www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-software-model-PMWF3.aspx
Jason Bagherian Thanks for clearing that up! I’ll need 444 for green screen later, but might go ahead with this one in the meantime since it’s a good deal. Are there any forums you recommend for reading up on the S-Log colour grading? Or should I be able to find it relatively easily by googling?
@@interferencepattern5409 Try these sites but you might have to search through the archives.
www.xdcam-user.com/
www.dvxuser.com/V6/
Just watch a load of tutorials on UA-cam about Davinci Resolve, that's all you really need to learn.
So a sony a7s iii and up producrs better video?
I have never used the A7S III but a lot of people are happy with it and the FX3 / FX6. I personally prefer Panasonic cameras these days. I'm very happy with the images from the Panasonic S1H / S5 / GH5 and the colour, build quality and ergonomics meet my needs.
9:33 Looks better than any regular youtube camera Ive seen and they be using Sony a7 iii and up to A9.
Does it really matter if it doesn't do 4k? Cant it be upscaled and nobody would care?
I have upscaled footage from the F3 using Topaz to UHD and it looks great 😀
Noooooo........ don't be releasing yet another video about this secret hidden gem! Now they'll never again drop under US$600 on eBay :-(
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.
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Am joking, am joking.... but also, half serious! Still, great to see the old F3 still getting some love :-)
Awesome comment. Cheers :-)
Primero 👋
Thank you :-)
My iPhone12 films in much better quality...
Well Funny! The best joke I've heard in ages :-)
@@JasonBagherian i have heard some be dead serious when talking about these old 200k dollar cameras, especially the analog ones.