Student Pilot has Near Miss! George saved my life.
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2016
- Season 2, Episode 2
I've only ever had one close call and conveniently it was the first time I ever brought cameras aboard my plane after buying it a few days before. I've been waiting a long time to share this adventure with you guys, so I hope you enjoy!
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My personal advice for this situation would have been just to side step the runway to get that aircraft in sight and then NOSE DIVE DIRECTLY INTO THEM TO ASSERT YOUR DOMINANCE
Mountain Mike 🤣😂😅
I concur
with guns blazing, of course
Geoffrey Conn with your pants around your ankles at the urinal
@@JohnSmith-be5py 5 feet back from it
It seems like things would have been easier if the other pilot just turned on his radio and said something.
True. It's always best when the pilots communicate, especially in unrestricted airspace with no ATC.
FAA regulations require use if you have a radio.
Can you give me a regulations quote? I think you'll find it's recommended by AC.
Probably a 20s plane with no comms
It's a 1940's Navion. He actually pipes in later in the video.
that is just scary having a rogue plane not using radios.
whats even more scary is if its uncontrolled airspace that's legal to do, obviously that guy should of known better i bet he had radios and was just not using them and probably wasn't even listening to the airport frequency.
LOL @ rogue.
@@masonmax1000 A classic case of putting someone in a position of responsibility and they act in a totally irresponsible way!!
I was asked to make radio calls for a crop duster over hot springs arkansas airport as I was on downwind, right base, and final.
Especially when you know you're around multiple other planes, especially at a landing strip.
"Silver, meet me at the parking lot. We need to talk. Bring your radio. Need to show you something."
Nothing needs to be said just come to the parking lot.
Navion please copy this phone number I'm going to need you to call.
Microphone suppository.
I certainly would have talked to the guy to see if hed been drinking. If so, I'd make sure he couldn't take off again.
Should've gone into a 4G inverted dive, gave him the bird.
Ahhhhhh I see what u did there
You ruined it though. You should have said 4G dive with the faith that some savvy youtuber would ask how did you see him, then you could respond with the "I was inverted" finish.
oh..you mean communicating :-)
Negative. Open pilots vent window and dangle penis out, allowing the slip-stream to cause it to flap at the other pilot.
Oh Jesus. Do you have to personally tell him your diplomatic clearance number is one or two every time?
Very frustrating video.
Because some champion was dicking around, just fucking around, and in my view was putting everyone's lives in danger.
In my experience, situations like this are often caused by one pilot being on the wrong frequency. He is broadcasting on a frequency where nobody is listening. He hears no other airplanes, so assumes he is alone in the pattern. Meanwhile, the other aircraft, on the correct CTAF, (hopefully) see the airplane, but don't hear him. It happens more often than you would think.
Had this happen to me just this last Friday, guy joining on wrong frequency and making pretty poor calls when he did. Schooled him up on it and told him to change frequency for airfield and call his intentions, no response so I orbited once on base to give him some more room to land. He apologised when I met him after landing, he 'forgot' to change frequency. Better safe than sorry.
Maybe also good to ask for a radio check if you do not hear other aircraft. This can help some. Also, add an extra verification for the CTAF frequency.
Near miss is at 3:00
Thanks
Where
@@jannis01 The guy in the video is slightly above the other plane who is not using the radio meaning that the student pilot had no way of seeing/hearing where his position was. If the student pilot descended then they may have collided depending on how close they really were. You can hear the radio of the following plane alert the student pilot of the other planes position to let him know where he is.
Thank you! I hate the “where’s Waldo” where you have to search for it since these people want you to watch the video to get paid. Too bad there wasn’t any video, when he stated in the beginning that he has 2 cameras I was hoping to see 2 angles
The only thing you did "wrong" was not chewing the Navion pilot's ass out for making a low pass with at least 2 other aircraft in the pattern without making a single call. He is an idiot. I would have made sure he knew that he put his and your life in danger by his stupidity. Good job on your part though. We used to have a guy occasionally do touch and goes at our field without a radio and he would land downwind with students in the pattern. My old Navy trained instructor invited him to join him on the tarmac for a little lesson in proper fisticuff techniques, but he intelligently declined. We never saw him again at our uncontrolled field.
Wow, good story. Then again, any story that include the word fisticuffs is bound to be a good one, or at least a manly one.
yeah I was wondering why he was not using comms. Some planes dont have them. I am glad you are safe but I would have chewed him a new back side hole. Student or not, he needs to have good flying manners.
Haha everyone seems to be suggesting the "tear him a new one" approach this week! Last week it was "engage in fisticuffs" Agreed with your sentiment, though...
He should have his certificate pulled nothing less would do. This gross negligence is inexcusable and its pilots like this who get multiple people killed in the air and on the ground because he is to F***ING lazy to make radio calls.
Dietzeeeee
I certainly agree that this is exactly how stuff happens... I ponder all the time what exactly it is that kills pilots...
Just fought with my computer for the last two hours to get this one uploaded... Turns out that trying to play Cities Skylines while After Effects renders a video is a pretty good way to brick your computer.
Haha! Thanks for the heads up! (Pardon the pun) 👍🏻
What could of you done, he wasn't following procedure? Especially dangerous that he wasn't following a standard traffic pattern. I think that pilot should be disciplined harshly. My only other suggestion would be an overhead join next time, the orbit allows time to accesses the traffic in area and can be helpful.
GunsOfPlentyNZ
Would you mind explaining the overhead join to us US pilots? Do you just mean to cross midfield and circle back around to the right to join the downwind?
My explanation is not the best so follow along with this diagram
america.pink/images/3/3/6/8/4/9/2/en/3-overhead-join.jpg
In short, and overhead join is method of joining a circuit (pattern) safely and giving the pilot an opportunity to also safely establish all the traffic in the area
To join overhead you make standered reporting calls tracking back to the field, but include tracking to join overhead on the end.
For example (My Field Is Northshore)
North shore traffic Tango Zulu Kilo Is 4Miles to the north west of the field 3000feet tracking to join overhead
Then within a close distance of the field its NS Traffic (rego) is 1mile NE of field Joining overhead
And overhead is carried out at circuit height + 500 feet, so if circuit height is 1200feet overhead is 1700feet
The pilot calls overhead when he is overhead one landing threshold ( he can chose any), and then commences an orbit, usually the orbit is crossing each landing threshold, this allows good vision of the field
The pilot can orbit for as long as he wants, allowing him to see all the traffic below him in the patter/circuit and in the surrounding area. It also allows the pilot to establish the active based on windsocks or traffic
When the pilot is happy with the active and traffic, he continues his orbit till he crossed the Non-Active runways landing threshold, then begins his decent to circuit height on the non-traffic side.
The pilot descends to circuit height, crosses the landing threshold, and then makes his turn to join downwind.
Obviously its critical he knows were traffic is when joining downwind, as making a 90 to downwind if he does not know were traffic is could be quite dangerous
An overhead can also be quite nice if you are say early downwind and then another aircraft makes a call downwind, but you have no idea were they are. You can call early downwind climbing midfield for overhead, Join the overhead, orbit safely above the circuit and see were all the traffic is that you may not of had visual on before
Hope that made some sense.
GunsOfPlentyNZ
Hm. Interesting. I've never seen that in a US book before. I wonder what the FAA thinks of it. I'll have to ask the guys down at AeroVenture too.
Just because the FAA allows it doesn't mean it's safe. I hate people who refuse to use radios.
I am so glad you are here to make everyone safe. What would we do without your leadership after being alive for 16 years. Thank almighty God Scott is here to give advice.
@@brianwilkins5673 Don't be an ass, Brian.
And Scott Harris is correct. This situation could have been avoided had the other aircraft been on comms (with *multiple* planes in the pattern, no less). And all the while just doing his own thing and not flying anything resembling a standard pattern.
yep, the fact that still in 2020 planes are allowed to fly without talking on the radio is a complete joke. If the plane doesn't have an electrical system, that should be a sign that it's time to get a newer plane. LOL Or at least a handheld and some headphones.
@@beta_cygni1950
Thanks for chiming in Chris. Im sure with your vast experience you can enlighten everyone on here.......
The truth is, there is room for everyone it just takes common sense. Should a aircraft with no radios jump into the pattern at an uncontrolled field that has numerous aircraft in the pattern.... of course not. However when a guy like Scott and yourself that like to spout off and dont have the experience to back it up, it makes you look uneducated. Blanket statements in aviation about this is good or that is wrong etc etc are doomed to be proven wrong. Fly some more, come back and discuss.
@@brianwilkins5673 I could almost hear sad violins playing as I was reading your whiny response. Do you need a safe space, Brian?
You seem easily hurt and rattled. Aviation probably isn't for you. Are you the jackass pilot in this video? If so... you should be grounded, son.
Had a dear friend, his 5 year old boy and fellow pilot killed in Houston in 1994 along with two brothers in the aircraft that over took them while they were on final at Pearland Regional (KLVJ). Giving out positions reports for downwind, base and final a Bonanza A36 gave warning that a Mini Cab Hawk Experimental was over taking them High and on their 6. The aircraft over taking my friend was flying a low wing aircraft and my friend was piloting a C-172. The C-172 was on a 1.25 mile final when the Mini Cab Hawk hit them on the upper wing causing both aircraft to become aerodynamically connected. Both aircraft rolled to the right nose down and contacted the ground vertically while remaining together. 5 dead because one guy didn't follow a proper entry or make any radio calls giving his position / intentions. The worst part is 3 wives lost their husbands that Sunday afternoon and one wife lost a husband and her 5 year old son.Sometime is best to exit the pattern when you have a DUMB ASS flying near you. Great video and a great safety discussion.
That burns me, why do people do that? That's the nightmare scenario I fear whenever at a non-controlled airport... I learned at an airport in class C... frequent touch and goes at nearby local non-towered airports, but still dislike non-towered airports to this day. Even with radios it can get spooky quick. Without radios... and obviously this guy had them and they worked. Use them!
FAA should be allowed to ticket or even suspend and require logged flight instruction and even maybe exam ride for morons that do that.
Does the FAA not require mandatory left hand circuits at uncontrolled airports at 1000AGL (unless otherwise specified), with entry only from downwind or mid field downwind? In Canada that’s the only permitted method to enter an uncontrolled airports circuit.
Everyone at the same height so you can see the traffic, and entry from only known points to avoid unexpected surprises. I don’t understand how this Navion pilot first runs a lefthand circuit to final then on his next circuit does a right hand circuit causing another go around for the Piper. Seems odd to allow 2 simultaneous circuits for 1 runway.
@@Alex-us2vw The FAA is not an independent authority. They don't have a role in this at all!
John Henry how wouldn’t the FAA play a role? It’s an aircraft operating in US airspace that involves the FAR’s.
I’m in Canada so we have TC instead and CAR’s but it’s the same thing as the FAA and FAR’s would be in the America. Not following the approved procedures for flying at uncontrolled and controlled airports would be breaking many regulations. That Navion clearly was flying well below circuit height, didn’t enter the circuit with proper procedures, pretty much didn’t join the circuit at all since he was much lower then circuit height and ran a right hand circuit.
Judging by all the other aircraft running left hand circuits, clearly this airport was using a standard circuit. The airport chart would detail correct procedures including circuit height if it deviates from the default 1000AGL and left hand circuits. There are other ways of approaching but they are for IFR flights doing precision approaches who come straight in from the initial approach fix, but IFR requires radio, so the Navion was clearly operating VFR NORDO.
On its own no radio for VFR at an uncontrolled airport is perfectly legal, but disregarding the rest regulations for operations at uncontrolled airports wouldn’t be legal.
@@Alex-us2vw Air Canada does whatever they want and the rest of us either scurry out of their way, or follow them to someplace quiet and Shoot, Shovel and Shutup.
Good video. I'm glad the other guy was in the pattern. I would have done the same things you did.
eyy
Hi!
I guess you could say you got a little smarter today huh SmarterEveryDay ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
What!
do you even drive planes??
if you do okeh
btw hi
I haven't flown in years and I still can't believe you can fly without radios. Seems insane in today's crowded and unpredictable air spaces.
In my humble opinion it appears that the Navion pilot, while within regs, is still reckless, bold, overconfident, and dangerous quite simply because he is flying at a busy airport with no radio, plus he is all over the place flying his own pattern practicing who knows what?
The tip off on this is entire situation is not being able to see the Navion but knowing its there.
Dragging the scenario out by continuing to look for the plane for such a protracted time period can be equally dangerous and reckless.
When I am in these situations, I clear the pattern, gain altitude, spot the traffic, and return when safer to land so I can live to fly another day.
Dont share airspace with reckless/idiotic/clueless/self entitled pilots. Anything else is simply a repeated pulling of the trigger in a game of russian roulette. If you stay in the pattern and keep pulling the trigger over and over again, the gun will sooner or later go off.
Well said, sir!
Miteco 1 Stayxsie Johnson but if you do arrive where an existing plane is on approach or a pattern. Can you not radio out to call in your Ident and your intentions? Seems reasonable and just for an added level of safety. Yes, maybe legally he had the priority within the pattern. But is not flying a plane 3D Vs a car that is 2D? Seems prudent to STRAIN over your instruments and push that all-so-hard mic button with your Ident. Heading. And intentions. It may cause you to loose your voice for a day or two. BUT NOT YOUR LIFE!
Did I not see the jackass make right traffic at a left traffic airport?
@@brucebratschi4300 My guess is he may have known the Piper was around him and wasn't sure where the Piper in video above was. You could hear some sort of stepped on radio call or garbled call from the Navion very early on in the video. I think he may have been trying to get clear of the left hand traffic pattern to avoid the Piper after he realized they were both on final???
Yeah what was that? George on the radio said he saw the plane doing a low pass of the runway and then at the end he turned right instead of being part of the traffic pattern. Super bizarre. It's like he's playing MS Flight Sim out there
Hats off to you man that was some good airmanship on your part, George and the other guys
In the same situation I would have likely performed a hammerhead stall before manoeuvring into a barrel roll whilst pulling off a perfect cuban eight.
Don't forget the emmelman for the reversal to his six
I think they call it a "Hispanic Eight" now due to ongoing speech attenuation.
Paul Kersey that was a good one lol
LOL, What would be next? Non Caucasian Eight. That sure made me chuckle
Well I'd have gotten on his 6 then gave him a 3 second burst of my 8 X .50 Cal's and put about 13 lbs of lead up his Tail pipe and splashed his sorry ass, as my P47/ D27 Jug dont like anything in front of it .
ATC controllers are the real MVPs.
Friendly pilots just trying to take care of other pilots :)
Friendly Skies Film
Wait... There's no ATC in this video? So is everybody flying purely visual then..? No radar?
Thanks for helping me, these aviation radio conversations are confusing to an amateur.
Peter Timowreef
No worries! Yeah, no ATC, no radar, just pilots. Watch the diagram in the corner. It shows who's talking :)
Friendly Skies Film
Can't believe I missed that, I watched the whole thing hahaha.
But what when it gets busy..? There must be a limit to how many planes are airborne around one field right..?
Peter Timowreef
As many as can fit. Sometimes even on multiple runways at once. The most I've ever seen at a single uncontrolled field is.... probably 6. I'm sure people here would be glad to top that.
You made a couple decisions, not just one, which saved your life. Good calls and thanks for the video. It'll be something to watch out for!
I think it was excellent that you decided on a go-around right off the bat, and as a student.
don't like the idea of people being in the pattern and not using comm
Who does?... Seriously not ok with me, but I'm not going to cause a big fuss over it either. Glad I'm not alone, though.
Its always great to have someone looking out for you.
.
I like the word "skymates"! I think I'll start using that if you don't mind :)
.
Ahh, very cool! I don't know if you've heard about the stage show I wrote and had performed for this channel, but I'm beginning to write one for next year about modern Navy operations. Also, I have the same adaptation for that blackish mold that collects on airplane wings kept under trees for too long; "sky-barnacles".
Yeah that douche not using comms is a total dingbat...Totally could have gotten someone killed. Why would you not use radio if you have it and there are multiple airplanes in the air....So stupid.. I would have been so pissed and probably said something to him while on the comms....
I'm an MEI/CFI/II with over 1,000 hours, mostly dual given. You did exactly what you should have done. A lot of low time pilots would try to force the landing in that situation thinking, "this is what I have to do because I'm on final". You communicated well and demonstrated good judgement on the go around/early crosswind turn. Unfortunately, the limp dicks in the pattern off comms at uncontrolled airports cause more close calls/near misses than you can possibly imagine. Stay frosty.
Thanks, mate! Good to hear from a CFI with so many hours :)
I am a low hour student pilot. This is why I will not make a non-towered airport my home base airport. I could of taken less expensive flight school at a non-towered airport but after my first flight I saw some pretty scary things. The tower is your friend. Still you need to look for traffic. PS, you did a great job avoiding the traffic.
Yep, and our very busy non-towered airport in southern CA - Corona KAJO has some clown pilots that do not understand the concept of a radio and or radio calls. I am just a student pilot but on the CTAF you sometimes have to communicate more than just stating your position and intention. We are not a robot going around or into / out of the pattern. It's called communication as things do not always go to plan. Very good pilots look out for other pilots.
You did exactly what a good pilot does. Stays calm, focused and alert. Constant scanning of environment and receptive to comms and third party advice. Well done.
‘It’s a near hit. An accident is a near miss.” - George Carlin
Wow, that George guy deserves a free beer :)
Haha I think I bought him dinner ;P
Friendly Skies Film
I didn't really understand everything that happend. If George didn't say anything, would you have crashed on top of the red plane?
Joost H
Quite possibly, since we don't really know how close we ever got. It's one of those situations, where it could have just scared the crap out of me, or maybe I would have died... I just try not to think about it too much :-/
Friendly Skies Film
wow scary.
Did you give the pilot of the navion an ear full? I sure would have.
I used to sport skydive when I was much younger. I once remember leaving an aircraft (Cessna 172) over the drop zone (farmland field with a sand pit.) and suddenly realizing that there was another aircraft flying below and behind the jump plane which no one had known about.
In my case, I sweep my arms back and went into a head-first delta which accelerated my speed, and I got out of the other aircraft's way. Had I pulled my parachute instead, I might have had a close look at the other aircraft's paint job.
Damn. I can't imagine ever wanting to skydive again after a close call like that. Glad you were able to avoid it.
Ha Ha, In 1986, my buddy and I were on the beach at Pt. Pleasant, N.J. checking out the "chicks" as we called them at the time. Suddenly there was a small plane towing a bannor advertising a first time jump at Lakewood airport, Lakewood N.J. So what so do two young single guys with a little money saved up under their belt do during the end of "chick" season at the NJ shore do? We go to Lakewood airport and take a day learning how to do a "static' line jump. No tandom wussy stuff here. We had a back pack and a front reserve chute with a helmet and a radio transceiver on the front reserve chute. Anyway, after about 3 hours of wasteful time practicing emergency procedures, we went up in a C-182 (I think). Before my jumpmaster bailed after my buddy, and me second, I asked him if he ever had to use his reserve chute. His reply was something like " after 500 jumps, I've never had to use my emergency chute". Wow, was I satisfied. The hardest part was trying to climb onto the wing of the Cessna with all that gear attached to us. Finally, my buddy went out first. Bonziiiiiiiiii. Then I went next. The static line got caught around my helmet and caused it to be torn off my head. I'm still wondering if my head is lying somewhere in the NJ pinelands where Tony Suprano had his son-in-laws girlfriend killed while she was crawling on her knees begging for mercy, only to be shot by her boyfriend, or his buddy with the grey sideburns. I can't remember who rubbed her out.
Anyway, my chute opened, but the helmet was torn off my head. But the radio was attached to the front reserve chute, so I could stlll hear the instructions from the instructor on the ground. It was a very hot day, 96 degrees and no wind, so I fell like a rock to the ground and hit the ground like a pile driver, busting my left knee, which later swelled like a cantalope. My buddy landed ok. But my jump master, the guy whom I asked if he ever had a bad chute fail, had a Roman candle, and he had to rely on his reserve chute. I know to this day that I jinxed him. He was ok after they found him in the trees somwhere about a mile away from the drop zone. I've been a pilot since 1968, and I've had some close calls, but this was one that I'll never forget. All the girls at my shore house were pissed off at me because I was too "disabled" to help clean up during the last weekend of the season. Thankfully, my new girlfriend felt sorry for me and attempted to please me in a very special way. The other girls were not happy about that. Man did I feel guilty. Ha ha. Anyway, I do not recommend a static line jump. This was back in 1986 and I think that all new jumps are tandum. As I write this, I lost my train of thought and don't know why I'm even telling this story, other than it is true. The Jump master, for the first time in his life, had to pull his reserve chute after I had the audacity to ask him if he ever had to use it before this day. Man, life was great in the 80's. I hope America can be Great Again. JMHO
Dude, you had me up until the last line. I think what you want is to be young again, so just grow a pair and act half your age.
Good advice for any older guy. Fortunately my "pair" has been with me ever since I got my birthday suit.
Great Story. Thanks!
I like that you have your head 'on a swivel', always on the lookout in what can quickly become a dangerous situation.
I like the "getting out of there move"
I was thinking turn final, but when you did that, I learned. :)
The one idiot isn't following the pattern procedure. He put you all at risk
guy not using comms is a total tool and really should get a good refresher training on why airplanes have radios
Haha nice usage of calling someone a tool! XD Thanks for letting me know what you think.
***** *properly.
I'm so sorry that I had to take that shot! I'm so sorry! XD
That would be "properly" ;)
+David Pringuer my ex spells it 'propperly' :-E
+wkdemers Did you slap them?
By the way, great flying, you handled that one well, keeping your cool, and especially no knee jerk reaction. Great flying Bro!
Why would anyone not be on comms with multiple a/c using the same runway?!
Morons can be pilots too bro,
Stupid pilots and human beings that's who.
Because hes a complete idiot.
It seems to me that they were not flying visual either. Its really hard to see other traffic when your friggin eyes are closed.
It's quite scary when you're told there is traffic near you, but you can't see them. Back sometime around 1975, I was a passenger on an Air Canada flight returning to YYZ Toronto from Europe. A couple of kids came down the aisle all excited about having been allowed to visit the cockpit. I didn't know that was even possible, but it doesn't hurt to ask. So I flagged down a stewardess and asked if I could see the cockpit too. She went off to check then came back to escort me to the flight deck. Too cool. The flight crew weren't doing anything, the plane flies itself. So we just chatted and I told them all about how I'm currently taking flying lessons on a Piper Cherokee. Super nice guys, they said why don't I come up later and they'll let me sit in for the landing! Awesome! So, hours later the stewardess came to fetch me and I got to sit on a jump seat on the left behind the pilot. They even gave me a headset so I could listen in on the radio chatter. Way cool. First strange thing, there's water dripping on my head. Um, is this supposed to happen? They said ya condensation freezes on the cabin ceiling, then drips down when they descend into warmer air. Um, but it's dripping through the switch panel above my head. No worries, it's normal. Right, sure, ok, I guess. Other than that the whole airport approach procedure seems familiar and it's pretty much the same as I'm used to, but on a much bigger scale. I'm used to just a ten-mile control zone around our club field, but here they're reporting in already 25 miles out. We're told to join on the downwind, we're number three behind a ??? and one other ??? ahead of us. Pilot and copilot (and me) see only one plane ahead of us. Oh well... Continuing on, we radio the tower as we're turning left onto the base leg. Tower responds we're still #3 behind ??? on short final and behind ??? who is just turning left onto base leg now. Holy #$%!, but WE're just in the process of turning onto base leg! Where the heck is that other plane?? Can anyone see him? We must be right on top of them. Frantic scanning out all the windows. Tower, that's us just turning left onto base leg and we can't see the other plane. The tower comes back, "Oh, my apologies, you're now #2 following ??? just touching down now, and flight ???, correction you'll be #3 following the Air Canada flight now on base leg. Yikes! This is Toronto International airport and the tower was confused as to what order we're arriving in the circuit. That certainly wasn't confidence inspiring. After that the landing itself was uneventful, other than it's really weird when you can't even see the runway with the nose pointing up so high and we're still a good 50 feet up in the air when somewhere way, way, far behind us the wheels touch down. That's a bizzare feeling.
I think my favorite part was the condensation! XD Thanks for sharing :)
Holy shit, i bet this would have lead to some brown stains in my underwear if i were in this situation.
Good video and educational. I had a similar near miss when traffic holding short at a CTAF field decided to line up as I was on VERY short final. Was pretty darn scary and had me reeling for a bit on that go-around
Bro, I just watched your video. You did a great job in communicated with tower about where other aircraft was. Keep doing what you are doing. At this point in your learning about flying. No one is perfect and it takes practice in become good at flying. Great job bro. :)
About a week before my private check ride in helicopter I had to switch flight instructors. She was terrible. We had a helicopter climbing out under us and she had controls. He was calling his position and I looked at her and said, “he is 100’ below us and climbing” at witch she replied “huh” I grabbed controls turned crosswind while warning the other helicopter. She took controls back, flew us strait to our home airfield and said she couldn’t fly with me! Lol, I told the owner of the school what happened and it wasn’t the first time she almost had a mid air collision. What’s worse is she wouldn’t admit any wrong doing even after seeing the helicopter clime out next to us.
Thumbs up for my eye in the sky, George Allen, and my eyes on the ground, AeroVenture Institute!
Thumbs up for George, and "finger" up for the pilot of the Navion. :-)
Great video, Personally I prefer videos with one, or max two cams... easier to concentrate on a task presented in a video..
Nice that he didn't make you learn the hard way... :)
To have a cam on runway so landing can be seen better
NEAR MISS !!
So dumb , it's a near hit.
I actually got pretty mad at the other "RED" aircraft. Not using COMMS when you have it on board while 2 other aircraft flying in the same pattern with you??? NOT ACCEPTABLE and TOTALLY RIDICULOUS! I`m no one to judge but I`d probably not climb in case George was wrong and you were the plane flying beneath the other. (But I don`t know how sure he was about you being the top one so.. you can disregard this part)
And If I were you and George was not there and that plane popped out suddenly from below when I`m coming in for the landing, I`d absolutely report him. (you have the both video and audio proof) I hope you had a little talk with him on the ground. I can`t stand when people are so reckless while flying... Thank god there was no accident. Great piloting, Great ADM, Fly safe Nick!
Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a good response. I completely agree with everything you said, including your suggestion to side-step where I could see rather than climb. If it ever did get that close, I probably would have, and I did have a brief talk with him, but I gathered the flight school already railed him for endangering one of their (favorite, of course ;) ) students like that, so I didn't beat the dead horse.
Yeah, when they were probably under you on final or when he said the Navion looked like it was making a low pass on the field, a nice side-step to the right by you would've given you a better field of view. Good job on staying aware, especially you being a student there!
+FriendlySkiesFilm this is a good question...how'd you put the map together after the fact. Best guessing?
Get on his tail and transmit "Fox One, Fox One", maybe that would get his attention enough to turn on the radio
more like fox 3 cus maybe they have flares you never know
@@RealPyro88 Flares only work against fox 2 missiles, heat seakers, which wouldn't do much against a propeller aircraft that doesn't have exhaust fumes.
Mousie ah yes thought that fox 2s were the heatseekers and fox one semi active
You're right, though. Fox 1 is semi-active and fox 2 is heat seeking.
If in doubt, get on out. Simple rules to live by. Live to fly another day. Cheers.
You got a good friend looking out for you. It's great to see the aviation community growing so much on UA-cam by the way.
Buy George in the Green airplane a nice meal after that near miss.
Go inverted. Ask Denzel, works every time.
lol
You know, to communicate!
Uncustomary/inconsistent pattern work without use of comms is inexcusable. It caused 3 pilots grief and stress while in the pattern when low speed issues are at highest risk. PIC here spends all his energy looking for traffic instead of flying the plane. It is to his credit that he was skilled to the degree of flying the aircraft on instinct while in full collision avoidance mode. Never misses a beat. Great student flying. Me: I would have flown 4 miles out of the pattern to re-enter on final because I fear what I cannot see. Or I would have flown to the next airport, landed and called somebody to fly me and airplane back.
Glad you thought I had some good skill :)
Lets play a game... four planes flying circles around the same runway until someone crashes
I've had about 8 in the pattern and the only adjustment that was needed was an agreed upon speed for separation.
No comms and non-standard patterns? WTF?
In the words of the late great George Carlin, They say that if 2 planes almost collide, it's a near miss. Bullshit, my friend. It's a near hit! A collision is a near miss.
[WHAM! CRUNCH!]
"Look, they nearly missed!"
"Yes, but not quite.”
As I just said to a comment above yours, a near miss is correct, it means that the miss was close to the other aircraft hense NEAR not miss or hit.
I looked into this before as it never made sense to me either, I found that it is a shortened version of 'Near Mishap'
doublespeak intentioned to create self-reporting
I miss Carlin :(
Yeah most people interpret it as 'nearly missed' which makes no sense; it's actually more like 'missed, but near'.
that dude looked like he was trying to crash into you multiple times. wtf
Revenge?
Thanks for sharing this REALLY important video. I'm currently flying at a "messy" field. Straight in approaches; right hand traffic at a left one...
You guys were flying the right pattern, assertive communication and the near miss happened on those conditions. Gonna show them the risks of doing a fly like pattern. Safe flights!
I flew Army helicopters for 15 years and one thing I would say is that flying at sunset or at sunrise is extremely dangerous on clear condition VFR with haze. Horizon definition contrast issues are a big problem. Not to mention having to scan away from the sun as to not burn in the night vision while simultaneously keeping a full sweep on scanning for hazards. It's always a good idea if you know you are going to be in these two time frames to have a co-pilot if at all possible to handle radios and scanning while you fly to your 360. I notice you were staying in one position too long and not keep a steady sweep of your airspace. things at 130 knots (not to mention opposing traffic at 130 knots in the opposite i.e. 260 knots differential) can move quite quickly and to take too much time in one zone of scan can be hazardous. Keep it safe and fun!
Did you have primary at Wolters if you were US Army? After we soloed, things got really crazy in the pattern coming back in and getting in the "daisy chain" with the rest of the Mattel Messerschmidts. Had several close calls, students jumping in line from all directions like they forgot what a pattern was. If the conditions were like in this video I have no doubt there would have been several fatalities in most of those close calls. As we all gained experience, things settled down or maybe the offenders were washed out.
+Dare Pivk you have to print urself (badumtsss)
Dare Pivk
Prerequisite for flying helicopters is you have to be crazy.
Whilst I read this I pretended to know what you were talking about.
2n prerequisite is you have to allow your brain to be rewired. Flying a helicopter is unlike driving a car or flying a starched wing aircraft. All your controls are inter-related. Change throttle, move cyclic. move collective, move anti-torque pedals...changing any one of them affects the rest.
When you went around, be good to move to the right and parallel the runway to see what's going on. Looking for traffic out of your peripheral vision will work better than looking directly at the target area.
Happy flying, been at it 33yrs. Sometimes they come outta nowhere.
Flatbed Trucking, Sam Rides. +1, this is what they teach us in Australia for a go-around. This video helps me appreciate why!
@@arrtchiu In USA we are supposed to also pull to the right and fly parallel on a go around to see the runway. It didn't look like the above student pilot did that which I was kinda surprised, that would be my 2nd step after adding throttle. Which is probably why he never really spotted the Navion even when it was down. In USA, it is standard practice as well though.
Under that situation I think your appreciation of the situation and action resulted in a satisfactory safe outcome. Iters may give a number of different views but they weren't in the seat, Good job!!
Thank You for Sharing this!!
You are very welcome, sir :)
they recommend scanning instead of rapid head movements when looking for traffic
This is a good example why uncontrolled airfields really should be *uncontrolled*!
Not as it is here in Germany where you still have a so called “Flugleiter” that still somewhat moderates the communications on the frequency. I have had multiple occasions where one of these guys told me to “obey radio comms discipline” when I was actually just trying to tell other aircraft around where exactly I am and to find out where they are in order to prevent a situation like in the video.
I used to fly in Southern California; in and out of SMO and VNY and through the LAX 'corridor'. I had several 'near misses', one of which was with a biplane doing snap-rolls over Malibu beach. We came so close I could see his face. Another was with an Aero Commander departing Hughes field...
Holy smokes, thru the LA Corridor?
Interesting. Thanks for publishing this.
Great Video. Upon executing your first go around, had you broken off to the right (like I was trained to do), then ran parallel to the runway, you likely would have then seen the other aircraft making the low approach.
I would have left the pattern and held at 3000 feet until I had a better idea of the situation
Since hindsight is 20/20, we watching the video, all have a much better picture of the incident. I, on the other hand, wasn't aware how much a situation was developing until maybe 5 minutes in. Student pilots don't know anything :P But hey! It's all about learning, right? :) Thanks for your comment.
+Friendly Skies Film I've been flying since 1977 and have been in this situation many times. I sold my Tiger and grounded myself 4 years ago because of too many brain farts. What worked best for me in this type of situation is to eliminate yourself and watch from above until you've got a handle on it. It took several near death experiences to figure this one out.
Christopher Cunningham
Wow, I hardly ever hear of anyone grounding themselves. I'm thoroughly impressed. I only see people around these parts that fly forever, often ignoring BFRs and the law all together.
+Friendly Skies Film I suffered a TBI in '93 but I flew throu the permanent symptoms of occasional short term memory loss, occasional Aphasia, and occasional Ataxia. Symptoms are getting less ocasional and I moved to Colorodo Springs in July for the legal meds; I'm not IFR trained and I've never flown around Mountain so it seemed like a good choice to sell my Tiger and lay low for a while. I never told an FAA flight doctor out the head injury
I would have done the same but have to congratulate the gentleman for doing much better than a lot of pilots. I've had countless situations where I have witnessed bad judgement.
You did a great job being vigilant with tower communication and staying calm. Flying is like riding a motorcycle. You have to constantly watch out for the other person. The other pilot probably forgot to turn his radio on the correct frequency. It happens.
Duuuude!! That was awesome 👏!!!! GG man I could just feel your adrenaline and anxiety trying to find the runway. Just GG, you handle it like, a Boss!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Wow, I ran into a few of those Juliet Alfas when I was flying. I had a Bonanza cut me off while turning onto short final at First Flight. He flew an unannounced straight in approach from the ocean side with me turning short final. He never saw me in a Cessna 150. It just proves, like my dad, an ATP with 32 years experience as an air traffic controller always said, "Not everyone who can afford an airplane should be flying one, and It's always a big airplane little sky." Years later after I became an Air Force air traffic controller, we were in a Navajo together over Dullas when a controller put us in a left turn and descended a 737, from our right, through our altitude before the 737 had us in sight. That's a BIG NO NO. The supervisor immediately came on and gave us a climbing right turn. When we rolled through wings level, we could see the passengers, with huge eyes wide open, in the little windows. My Dad as cool as a cat, calmly said, "Well, he just had a deal. We won't be hearing his voice again." That was it.
Rest in peace as the KISR1 Dept. out of Norfolk, VA Dad. We love you and miss you every day.
Friendly Skies Film, Can I use this video in my CFI lesson? This is a perfect set up for my students who need real world context to a scenario biased training on traffic patterns and communications.
Yes please! Always feel free to use any of my material in the name of learning :)
I just loved this video!!!
I was in this very situation on my first solo.An experimental from a different airport came into my home base and was not using comms.After taking off and turning left crosswind he was right there off to my left.Thank God my instructor saw everything from the ground.
You could have done nothing better. You had your head on a swivel and did the safest choice each time. I want to get my pilots license and watch these videos to learn what a book can't teach you. Good flying and good teamwork spotting the non transmitting plane. You made me feel safer about flying, so I would say good job.
Glad you enjoyed :) That's why I make these videos!
Thanks for sharing. Very scary.
My big takeaway is, that even if we are doing things the way that we think is right, we have to do our best to take into account that the other guy might not be.
That Navion was flying nothing close to a standard traffic pattern. His entry crossing the departure threshold from the other side of the runway and then turning a wide downwind leg was non-standard, after the first approach, making a right crosswind turn was non-standard, and his long final was also non-standard.
Yes, he also should have been using the radio, but if he had flown a standard left traffic pattern with a standard entry midfield downwind from a 45 degree angle, there should have been no conflict.
Another point related to watching out for the other guy: I think it's a good idea, especially at non-towered airports, to fly your upwind leg offset from the runway on the opposite side from the downwind when going around. With you flying over the runway, if he had gone around as well, he mighr have climbed into the bottom of your aircraft, with neither of you ever having seen the other one.
WOW!!!! Can't believe you survived!!!! Thank god you're still here with us....
Thanks, mate. Glad to be here too.
Thanks for sharing!
This is my biggest fear about learning to fly and general aviation in general. Why is it still not mandatory for smaller planes to have TCAS and for the pilots to be monitoring the radios at all times?
At least ADS-B out is pretty much mandatory now. Helps a lot if you have ADS-B IN
its pretty expensive and a lot of older planes would be out valued by one piece of technology
@@natedawg0215 Once again money is more important than life...
GoodKnight5252 correct, but some pilots don’t have the money for one specific safety feature. Getting that stuff installed can cost upwards of 75k-100k and that’s on the conservative side of the pay scale. Therefor totaling out their plane in some cases. Same situation goes for cars, not all cars have airbags on all panels of the vehicle due to age of the car and certain technologies not being around when said vehicle was built, newer planes usually come standard with this feature and don’t have to worry about it.
@@natedawg0215 except airbags affect the driver/ occupants of that specific car and not other drivers.. Do you see what i mean?
I'm not a pilot but I'd be pretty pissed if i got hit or die flying my plane because someone else didn't spend the money on a device that would allow us to communicate
I’ve encountered a rash of older gentlemen who get a kick out of operating without radio and causing near misses. Laughing the entire way listening to everyone else try to figure out wtf is up.
I have found the exact same thing. I've just been waiting for someone else to generalize by age group, haha.
You done good! That’s why instructors always tell to talk in pilot controlled air space, and keep your head on a swivel. Good Job!
I find your videos remarkably helpful. As a Student for PP I review and
note many things that I associate as I take my lessons. Thank you, and
great job! B.D. Melbourne Florida
Thanks, and glad you enjoy them. I'm actually thinking about moving to Melbourne or the surrounding area in a few years. Where do you fly out of?
the dude in the green was cool to take control of the situation and act as kind of a in air traffic controller
Thumbs up for George! :)
On busy days, if you have a friend on the ground, give them a radio. Even a kid with radio skills and good eyes can help out.
Ryan McGowan
True that!!!! Great idea!
"Which way did he go George, which way did he go?" ua-cam.com/video/ZElJxTCIsJI/v-deo.htmlm45s
Question: The red airplane appears to not be following any particular pattern or technique as far as how they approach the runway. The two of you always turned left to head downwind, and I see the red guy turned right. And when you were starting your first downwind (before the near-miss), you were following a very predictable behavior. Red dude just made and abrupt turn and cut in ahead of you. Am I correct?
You certainly are! It was a mess...
Awesome style of videos. The graph on the corner is great. Thanks a lot. Watching from Madrid, Spain.
Glad you enjoyed :)
thanks for the videos they are very helpful being a student pilot
That's why I make them! :D
The time this happened to me, I broke out of the pattern. Five minutes out, I turned around and tried again. Air Tag doesn't interest me!
I think I might have left the circuit for a while and rejoined once I knew where everyone was.
Great video. Would've never occurred to me to overshoot the final to see the aircraft out. Goes to show safety is king.
Haven’t started the video fully but just wanted to give you props on the intro, really cool and eye catching!
No crash = good flight
Yay! Hey...... You're not the same 007 that contributes to me on Patreon are you?
No sorry
James Bond
Agh! Because people like to make joke about him over here ;P
😎
Not if your muslim
There should be a regulation requiring CTAF communication at uncontrolled airports.
Agreed! It's 2016!
Great video, I like the graphics as well at the top right. Gives good situational awareness from behind the computer screen. All in all, I personally believe flying without comms is not a great idea at all. I enjoyed the video and fly safe!
Thanks for sharing.
"it's a near hit!"
George Carlin... RIP
That wasn't your fault. You transmitted your intention to land, and they flew underneath you. They should've been listening.
Haha, I tried answering you like 5 hours ago, but a storm took out power to my street literally as I was typing. I'm not one to cause trouble, so I wasn't going to yell at him for it or anything, but you're absolutely right. Thanks for giving me your $0.02.
hey he endanger your life. .that is a good reason to rip him a new one. even if you like to or not like to cause trouble. he endanger your life and hist. Remember "Aviation is a great freedom but it is terribly unforgiving "
Christopher Baker
I already said this elsewhere, but I find it funny how there is a different theme every week, like how last week was "engage in fisticuffs," and this week is "rip him a new one". You are kinda right about how unforgiving aviation is, though.
I had a similar situation at a controlled field. I was given a left base entry for 19 at CCR, at the same time there was a guy doing touch and goes. The controller told the other guy about me, asked if he had the traffic in sight (he acknowledged traffic in sight), told him to extend his downwind, and told him he was #2. He instead flew a normal pattern and got underneath me on final. The controller had me go around and ripped the guy a new asshole on the radio. Gave him the "I have a number for you to call when you land".
And that is the reason you need Sidewinder missiles.
When I was a student pilot that got sighed off to solo for the first time I got vert nervous when other aircraft in the pattern were calling out different positions and I was calling out my position also and you as a Student pilot did the right thing by the go - around and staying ahead of your aircraft with your head and eyes on a swivel for traffic and also at a safe altitude
My instructor said that any landing you walk away from is a good one. Funny thing was, my instructor was wheelchair bound....due to being shot down in Nam. Best pilot I've ever flown with. He had special hand controls for the rudder/breaks. He also said when I was new that he could crawl faster than I taxied. Good instructors are hard to find. GREAT instructors are priceless. Keep up with your wings kid!
I always thought time warp was unrealistic in FlightSim X I didn't know it's a real thing in Aviation.
Nice job on the go -around , and also using the dead side of the runway to stay out of danger . Bad move by the other guy for not using comms , there should be a mandatory comms rule for non towered fields . even a handheld . good video , safe skies .
Agreed. Thanks for giving me some backup ;)
What staggers me about the incident was that the guy in the other plane had a radio but wasn't using it until well after he'd nearly collided with another aircraft. I'm not so sure about mandatory comms because some aircraft don't have radios, but if you have one you should be using it for safety reasons rather than any law saying you must.
I had a situation somewhat similar.I had my instructor with me, and we were on a long approach on what I think was runway 8 at KCXY. This is controlled airspace, and if I recall, we received clearance to land. ( I can't say I recall if we had received cleared to land yet or if that was still coming)My instructor happened to look at our 4 o clock low, and another aircraft was converging on us. We radio'ed tower, and let them know we had an aircraft paralleling us roughly 300 feet below. We were advised to level off and go around.
Even controlled airspace - situational awareness is critical.
Thank-you for posting this. I had this happen to me once. I was lucky enough to have my instructor with me as it was one of my first flights to an uncontrolled airport. It was late afternoon VFR conditions but, not sunset yet. I did everything by the book and radioed in my position and intention on my way to the airport. I called all my positions out in the pattern. I listened diligently to CTAF and had my head on a pivot looking around for traffic. I am well aware that some old timers don't think they need to use radios. I was on base about to turn onto final when two airplanes - PItts Specials or something aerobatic like that, with no radios (or not turned on) entered the scene. I caught them out of the corner of my eye about at least 1000 feet above traffic pattern flying rapidly from right to left in somewhat of a dive. The first airplane put his wing over to 90 degrees and knifed down, dropping through pattern altitude, cutting right in front of me. His buddy was in tow right behind him and performed the same exact aerobatic maneuver. I immediately banked away to the right and added power to fly an extended downwind leg and clean up the mess in my pants. Looking back across my shoulder I saw as the lead airplane flared over the numbers for landing. I turned onto an extended final, landed, and motored up to the FBO to see if we could get a glimpse of these idiots. My instructor wanted to have some words with them. We did not see them take off (go-around), which we would have noticed because they were colored bright red and bright yellow. I have a feeling that they may have spotted me at the last second - as they must have made a beeline for their hangars! Cowards! I remember a couple of things - I was shaking, I was so scared and angry and secondly, I was very grateful to have a second set of eyes in the cockpit. I think we both saw these lunatics at the same time but, you just have to keep your head on a swivel at all times.
In my opinion, the Navion pilot is totally at fault. They did not follow the advertised pattern for the airport, nor did they fly anything approaching a normal traffic pattern. (I noticed that in your downwind leg you kept the runway off your left wingtip as you are supposed to - unlike that idiot. The Navion pilot did not use his radio, which I think is simply criminal. And you could not see him because he was down and away behind you and because you were turning onto final, and he was turning behind you so a usual checking of the final approach to your right wouldn't reveal anything either. Mainly he did not "see and avoid", which is their main sin. And, I bet that your plane was in their field of vision for some time. Sometimes we only see what we expect to see. This guy thought he'd get some late afternoon touch-and-go's in and no ones about so - who cares. Did you notice that the final approach speed for the Navion is faster than your Piper Warrior ? That is why he was catching up to you. That guy probably only noticed you after you climbed out to abort - "Oops, there's an airplane directly infront and above me! Then, he only turned his radio on, to cover his ass: "Oh yeah - I got him - I got traffic!" acting like he saw you all along and you're the incompetent one! It just makes me so mad. You go though all of your training. You do everything by the book. Then there are assholes like this guy that come along and kill you.
The only thing I would have done differently is, I would have banked to the right and put myself in the upwind pattern asap - so I could get eyes on the runway and maybe get a set of eyes on that airplane but, hindsight is always 20-20. I was flying around Chicago airspace (outside of the Class-B) one day VFR flight-following - everything by the book. I spotted a Bonanza or something below me. It's difficult to say how far away he was but maybe a half-mile and 1000 feet below? I was going north. He was headed in the same general direction but, because I was catching up on him, I am guessing he was climbing to my altitude. Man, I went left - he went left, I went right - he went right. I'm like - dude - I know you can't see me but, what the heck are you doing?!?! Of course, I had my radio on, I tried calling him but - you guessed it - radio not on, or in-op or whatever. And I was flight-following but, that airplane was not talking to anyone on any frequency - and that was the City of Chicago! So go figure!
The other pilot should have been monitoring his radio. It didn't appear he was aware of traffic. My opinion, I'm not a pilot yet.
NORDO is rarely a good practice, and this vid is an excellent example of why.
Really a great video; thanks for producing it :-)
You are very welcome! Thank you for appreciating it :)
Good judgment for both of you.
Is there no repercussions for the rogue plane? If not, why? He could have killed this guy and it would have been his fault.
No because he didn’t break any rules.
Yes there would be repercussions, he would have died also.....
Thought this would be about air rage, with pilots going at it like irate drivers.
if it was like that then there would be no plane left XD
like ww2 XD hey you cut me off i was landing. shut up phill your fine. fuck you phill have a taste of my 20 mills. XD
Why dont you get out and fight me like a real man....
***** *gets out* *falls like a real man*
Kept your cool and used your training as a critical resource. It can be crazy making when you can't actually SEE the hazard! This vid was recommended to me by UA-cam- Glad I saw it!
and I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for commenting :)
Great job i like how you didnt question and elected to clear the aera quickly.
Thanks, mate :) Had some guy telling me it was all my fault yesterday after thousands of comments, and my mind was just boggled. We can always do better in hindsight, but... anyway. Thanks! XD