Oh, not at all! I set out on that video with the intention of being proved wrong categorically at some point, and you sir, (along with many salient arguments I've read) have done it!
I've read all mlaz books some several times I think ICE books could be adapted but the BOTF just has too much nuance to put to movies.the pleasure in reading them is in the thoughts of characters more than the doings.no justice could be done to them
An adaptation will give us hardcover books in print again. It'll be cool just for that. And I get to be the smiling fan in the background watching newbies cry their hearts out at tragic events.
Hard covers, coffee table art books, fancy maps, games, jewellery, bookmarks ... and of course the bragging rights and smug rights of book readers over tv viewers 😂 More Malazan is always going to be more gooder 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ACriticalDragon A.P. kind of a random question. In some interview or another with Erikson, he mentioned that he used to be an artist. Have you ever seen any of his drawings? More specifically, has he ever drawn any of the various races in the MBOTF? I would love to see his rendition of a Forkrul Assail.
Ooooooo, I want a Dragnipur to hang on my wall! Also, is the next adaptation of Pride and Prejudice actually being called “Bloody Pride and Prejudice”? Will it be a vampire version? Cool! My tepid take on adapting Malazan: it had best be a television series, not a feature film. Your proposals sound pretty cool, including Tavore being a POV character. I like it!
They already did Pride and Prejudice and Zombies... it was... ummmm ... certainly an interesting adaptation and reimagining of the book. But for Malazan Books 1 and 3 are one significant arc, books 2 and 4 are a second elf-contained arc. So the risk to the producers is reduced, unlike say, WoT in which it takes 14 huge volumes to get to the major arc conclusion, and several of the arcs meander and peter out. MBotF can be done in smaller mini-arcs that clip together. So even if the show got cancelled, there would still be complete stories within the series.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I keep telling you, I can't write for toffee. Structural scaffolding is easy to create, but you need good writers to come in and actually fill in all the details.
What do you mean AP, last time the producers literally stormed my bedroom and my A Song of Ice and Fire books were gone. Recently my Dune novel misteriously disappeared, I'm starting to suspect something's going on...
I think that they would need some actually experienced people running the thing... but it would be incredibly cool to get to visit and talk to the writing team about what they were doing. I would love to see how they put it together and how they decide what to keep and what to leave out. @IskarJarak would do some awesome credits... and ensure that the lasers and fireballs were done right.
Haha, nice timing, I just commented on his video an hour ago! Long story short, I think a tv-show/movie/animation of the Malazan world would be great, but I am not so sure who I would trust to do that nowadays. The "let's make money quickly out of this without much effort" trend for fantasy productions lately scares me a bit. I really liked how you thought out the plan for a tv show, you even got me a bit excited about the idea, damn you, you can be so contagious with your enthusiasm! :D PS. I think I want more of the invisible straw man that walks around your house. He seems like an interesting character.
Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, and LotR prequel all had impressive budgets and that bodes well for investment in a big show. The completed series of MBotF bodes well for solid adaptation that pays attention to character and story arcs. Even a weaker or limited adaptation of Books 1 and 3 would be something to drive up interest in the series and stimulate interest in the genre.
@@ACriticalDragon I agree with everything he said except those points prohibiting an adaptation. It’s complex, the prose would get washed out, a lot of people would probably be pissed that it wasn’t faithful enough, and it would be absolutely glorious nonetheless!
Nah, Malazan books would have to be dumbed down too much to adapt them to the screen. I LIKE the fact that I had to read them twice before really beginning to understand and appreciate them. Too much would be lost by adaptation.
Oh yeah, I really like your idea! Adapting the story with a different angle would be really interessting. This way a potential tv show could actually add good new stuff to the books which I find much more appealing than simply visualizing (and cutting) the story of the books.
The only misgivings I have for a Malazan adaptation would be in regard to one of my favorite aspects of the series, the philosophy. The only way I could think of to address this in a cinematic format would be to dub in some of the inner-monologuing, which could come across in a weird way if it isn't done creatively. I suppose you could also hint at the philosophy through some creative use of cinematography of some sort, but that would also be very difficult to do right. Anyway, as long as the philosophy so beautifully woven into the series is touched on in some way I'll be happy.
Hi Tai, I think that some of that can be done via dialogue, some through scene framing, some through cinematography, and some through action. But an adaptation would be a different beast, so it would not be the same. But we will always have the books to reread.
I think it should because there are just so many cinematic moments in MoI alone. Like every chapter has a memorable event. I think it would run into problems such as exposition and introspection, but I think it could definitely work as an animated series. I get what Hood himself was saying about an adaptation needing to cut portions of the books, but I think it's only inevitable, given how large the series is and how much filler is in the books. I call it filler because even though I enjoy it, it wouldn't translate well to or have a point in an adaptation.
Hi Andrew, but that is precisely the point with an adaptation, you find ways to streamline the whole narrative, you create natural conclusions and season arcs so that you can have a satisfying show without necessarily adapting every part of all ten books. To argue that you shouldn't adapt it because some things would have to be cut makes no sense. Every adaptation cuts things.
Amazing video A.P!! I agree with many of your points. You really got me excited with your proposal at the end, damn you!! I would really love to get the Tv show, I think that the chain of dogs would be one of the most iconic things to ever be recorded for TV. Its true that I wouldnt trust too many production companies with the task, but with a good selection of showrunners, it could become something epic with all the published material.... besides, I need bridgeburner and bonehunter funkopops, oh and also a big Karsa pillow. Im already picturing that first sequence in the midst of the siege of Pale, it would be jaw dropping. Thanks for your cold takes!!
You can bet HBO and the like are looking around HARD for the next GoT. It made them to much money not to, even if they botched the ending. Malazan has the extra bonus of being "finished" Some of the downsides of Malazan would be the amount of casting required, amount of CGI or completely cutting major characters that will be required, and I dont know if audiences have the patience for the hard shifts in story/paceing we see in the books. Sadly I could see Karsa being cut out entirely.
Hi Husk, like most adaptations (and GoT is a great example), you would conflate certain roles to save on character actors. You would trim scenes, you would use extras in the background to give a false sense of scale, and so on. Yes there would be a large cast, but I doubt it would be larger than GoT. There are a lot of different ways to do it. Think of the Lady Stoneheart storyline that was essentially axed, or how the Sandsnakes were reconceptualised. We often get hung up on literal translations and forget that we can take a step back and restructure it to focus more on the narrative events and a smaller core cast... Which, oddly, caters to the very things that so many readers actually want. To reach a broader audience you would streamline and simplify some of the narrative elements.
Loved the points about Star Trek and Pride and Prejudice (two of my favorite television franchises, obviously with Pride and Prejudice the BBC/A&E miniseries)
@@ACriticalDragon haha if disney would pick up the series, they could offer cryogenics as a package deal. subscribe to disney plus now and we freeze you over till your show of choice airs. now that's great maketing!!
It's easy to imagine how cool it would turn out to see malazan on the screen but try think of the last time you heard of an adaptation being true to / as good as the source material. We love these books so much it's 99% guaranteed to come out dissapointing with such high expectations
I completely agree with your take on Tavore. I always thought that, if an adaptation was ever to occur, she should be prominent from the start. I might also add that my perfect fancast for her would be Jessie Buckley. Not only is she an incredibly talented actress, she is a chameleon, able to become plain, cold and even intimidating at the blink of an eye.
Looking at the shelf behind you...I would love to hear you discuss interesting techniques used by authors other than Erikson (not that I don't also want the Erikson stuff!). I would love to hear your thoughts on Martin, Hobb and others and the narrative techniques that they employ. Maybe even a compare and contrast between authors would be interesting to me. Thanks for your comments about an adaptation! I agree that it wouldn't take away from the existing material, and I bet Malazan nerds would have an absolute field day speculating about how they were going to adapt the various storylines.
I don't think I'll have to do a video on this anymore now 😆 I think a fourth main arc in season 1 and 2 might actually be Karsa. That would provide us with another additional crossover character for a possible season 3. And of course, gimme all the Mandy Pu plushies NOW!
But I want to see your video and how you would do it. I already know what is in my brain, now I want to hear everyone else's ideas that aren't 'anime'.
I would love to see MBOTF adapted into a TV show or an adult anime/cartoon. I truly believe it could be done and done well as long as the right people were involved. Erikson and Esslemont would have to be heavily involved and the show runners would have to be fully committed. None of this half season shite like with what happened in the later seasons of Game of Thrones.
Great video! I agree whole heartedly with you that an adaptation would be only positive for the Malazan Universe. Tv, movies, video games, and Kruppe merchandise. I want it all.
Thanks for the video. Personally I think adapting the series in anime format ( Castlevania ) would be more feasible and the series can focus on Bridgeburners time in either Seven cities or Black dog forest, where they get separated from the main army and have their own adventures. In Black dog forest for example, meeting with Bole Brothers, Tiste Andi, introducing different characters and world to the viewers.
Adapting to anime would limit viewership, potentially cost a lot more, and, depending on style of animation, be very divisive. The media format with the broadest appeal is live action. Focusing on a storyline that has not been written is not an adaptation, and I wouldn't be against it as a spin off after the adaptation was a wild success and took the world by storm. But it is hard to market a new story in an existing franchise before you have created the existing franchise.
@@ACriticalDragon style of animation would be a big factor for me. I'm not opposed to stylized art, but not a fan of some of the recent scratchy inkpen primitivist styles. I'd want something painterly and rich. The upcoming What If... series from Marvel looks promising in that regard.
Brilliant video sir 🤓 I always pictured Guillermo Del Toro, Alfonso Cuarón, and Alejandro González Iñárritu doing movie based versions of bauchelain and korbal broach stories
@@ACriticalDragon this is from sister .. Very interesting. I disagree with some of his points though, especially about it being no big deal if a movie or adaptation is different from the books, because people can still go read the books? I disagree. I think that any book, once made into an adaptation, stops people from actually going back and reading the books because they have a visual short hand instead in the movie. So IF the adaptation is terrible then it does ruin the books. I have never read Lord of the Rings after watching the movies because I have an easier and more digestible version in the movie; after Game of Thrones came out as a TV series, I stopped reading the books at about book 4 because I just would rather wait till the visual adaptation came out. What I am trying to say is that it is in fact important that any adaptation of Malazan be done CORRECTLY, because it will ruin the experience of the books and I wouldn’t return to the books with it circulating visually/in film. In that respect, I do think it is simply to challenging to adapt Malazan. It’s just too complex and expansive. I just don’t know how they would do it and if they did do it I would worry that they wouldn’t do it right. 🤭😉
@@Mr13chapters and yet I have seen multiple versions of Batman, Superman, James Bond, James T Kirk, and two different adaptations of Dune and LotR (I am particularly fond of the animation). We don't always have our imagination colonised.
Already imagining the watercooler talk: "Icarium's cool and all, but Karsa would kick his ass". Thank you for another amazing discussion and welcome straw man! p.s. I'm off making myself a Dragnipur now!
Hollywood isn't ready to criticize capitalism? I'd say Hollywood isn't ready to defend capitalism. The coldest take in entertainment is a celebrity at an awards show critiquing the means by which they got rich and famous. I would say Bonehunters should be filmed with the other 7 Cities stories, and then Midnight Tides. So that the viewer is always in one part of the world. If we've already established moving books for Deadhouse and MOI, we should be consistent.
Given that the theme is not a significant one until midway through the series I don't see it being an issue. And even then, it is not the focus of the narrative, it is one of several themes explored.
If we could get the first four books adapted, then I would worry about the rest. Getting the first four would an achievement in and of itself, and if that was all we got, I think it would still be rewarding.
@@shawngillogly6873 Malaz is an island nation... and I think Erickson said in an interview that the Letherii Empire was modeled on the British. "As a nation, the Letherii believed in constant progress and expansion without end. They revered coin above all else." (from the wiki)
Great video, I was skeptical before but always thought it is a shame it hasnt been adopted in any way visually for screens and I think you demonstrated that it is def possible with Malazan that it could be done. A good writing team that consults with SE and ICE obviously being a necessity of course but really the only other constraints are budget and good casting.
Interesting video, A.P. In case we have a Malazan movie / show / anime, I would love it if someone consulted SE and ICE for it, and that SE and ICE receive a lot of money for it too. And I hope they'll make it good. On the first pages of GotM "Gardens of the Moon's bare bones first saw life in a role-playing game. Its first draught was a feature film co-written by the two creators of the Malazan world, myself and Ian C Esslemont" I want Malazan merchandise so much! T-shirts, and toys and key chain k'chains, etc :) I have some ideas for t-shirts for quite some time. I must confess that there are books that I've read after seeing the movie based on them. And I was not disappointed, it was a win-win. I enjoyed the movie, and, of course, I enjoyed the books a lot better. The same may apply to many people in case Malazan gets screen time. Nothing to lose, a lot to win, in my opinion :)
Hi Rox, you are absolutely right. Anyone adapting this would be crazy not to utilise the talents of Erikson and Esslemont. To be honest, most of the paraphernalia I could take or leave, but I would dearly love some coffee table books of the art and maps, and maybe an illustrated encyclopedia.
@@ACriticalDragon those are some great ideas!! There are print shops that could print high quality images all over a long dress or a ladies's summer t-shirt, or on a skirt, or on a hoodie, or a men's shirt, on blankets, pillow cases, bean bags, rucsacs, teddy bears, cups, phone cases etc. Even coloring books for stressed people. There are SO many possibilities for merch, it would be amazing to finally get some official merch, and I am aware that can only happen when the books get screen time and a wide audience.(which I'm sure it would happen)
@@ACriticalDragon "coffee table books of the art and maps, and maybe an illustrated encyclopedia" - that along with an official Malazan RPG release are the top of my wishlist constantly. I really wish that an official RPG setting book would come either rules agnostic or even GURPS.
@@marsrock316 aww, I have a Doctor Who Time Lord Fairy Tales book. I'd buy Malazan merch in the blink of an eye. Hahaha, now I imagine my own Kurald Galain blanket :P
I’d be OK with a muppet version of Gardens of the Moon. Kermit as Paran, Miss Piggy as Tattersail, The Count as Rake, etc... The adaptation I would enjoy more is a TV series on the continuing misadventures of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach. That could be done amazingly well.
I agree with you AP. The books will always exist and their magic, enchantment and brilliance are forever preserved. An adaptation for the screen could be made, restricting, for example, to just one book, with allusions to other moments in the past or the future. It could focus on the Paran brothers or Fiddler. And who wouldn't want to see Tehol and Bugg debate the current state of the world? Thanks for the content and congratulations on your channel. I adore Big hug from Portugal
My opinion? YES!!! Do it today! All it would take is the desire to make it and somebody that wants to spend all of the money it would take but the technology to do it right is there
I whole-heartedly would love an adaptation. Maybe not from an existing book, but an original story in the Malazan world, unique to the movie/series to be made. I would even love a Malazan game, accessing a Warren as a special ability with my character I'd be playing. There's so much additional media that can be created from Malazan!
So not an adaptation but a new screenplay set in the world. Why not just adapt the Darujhistan thread into a feature then? It would save writing an entirely new narrative.
@@ACriticalDragon you're right, and it would. But-- Don't you think Erikson would enjoy writing something new for the big screen? A new narrative would add more content in the Malazan canon , and can be written specifically for film/series, to save from chopping up and cutting out from source material.
@@alynam82 but Gardens of the Moon was originally a screenplay and is quite different to the novel. It was primarily the Darujhistan sections of the book. Personally I would love to see an adaptation first, then see the world explored through spin offs. That would leave Erikson and Esslemont free to write more novels (the things that I like more than TV in the first place). There is already so much material from which unique adaptations could be crafted that I don't see the need to write brand new material at the moment. But I understand your position.
World War Z was also, in some ways, very different to the book, and yet I thoroughly enjoyed it as an adaptation. But Apocalypse Now was a really interesting adaptation. Of course, Avatar was a very poor adaptation of Word for World is Forest.
Well, Hood has certainly brought you to life (not that you were very dead earlier). Love your fiery pitch. I, too, would love to see Malazan. It would ideally make the series into a cultural phenomenon, which it so richly deserves to become.
Hi Johan, I am glad that you enjoyed the video. Now we just need to convince a million more people and that should be enough to convince a few producers. 😁
The Internet lost it's shii... uh, composure, when the Red Wedding happened on GoT. I imagine (still a newbie) there are a few RWs in Malazan that would suffice.
You make a lot of solid points, and I agree an adaptation would be awesome if done well. I just have very little faith it will be done well. When thinking about fantasy adaptations over the last decades three pop out as exceptional successes - Harry Potter, LotR and GoT. Harry Potter had the momentum of a worldwide hype supporting it, and was relatively easy to adapt (pretty narrow scope of story, locations and characters). Especially the hype makes this an outlier, people were gonna buy into this shit no matter what. Game of Thrones was fantasy light, and had shock value and nudity. Fantasy light is always an easier sell. Lord of the Rings was something of a unique project as well - it's one of the best known series in the genre, had fanatical fans running it, and was an audacious project that asked the crew and cast to dedicate a significant part of their lives for years as they shot all the movies concurrently. The Hobbit shows how hard it is to repeat that formula. Pretty much every other adaptation has been bad, mediocre or a small niche success at best. Dresden Files , Sword of Truth, Shannara, Discworld, Witcher, Percy Jackson - if we look at those, I think the fandom would rather have them not exist. They brought few if any new readers to the books, and made little if any money. I'll keep my fingers crossed that one day all the winds blow in the right direction for an exceptional adaptation, but right now I can't see it happening. And the question becomes ; rather no adaptation or a bad one? Rejoice might be the better option to start adapting Erikson's work 🤔 Oh, I would definitely be down for the merch though. I would love to have Dragnipur and a huge flint sword on my wall, I need the Che'malle keychain, and t-shirts featuring Karsa, Rake, Tool and others with quotes and stuff.. hell yes! 🤘
Hi Rob, Personally I liked the Dresden Files adaptation and think that it could have been great if the network had been a bit more confident in it. If it were made now there is every chance that it would actually be a great success. Streaming services have significantly altered the approach to making some filmic narratives that aren't then dependent on ad revenue and regular time slots. There are plenty of paranormal romance series that have been fairly successful, ,as well as a number of horror/fantasy films, and we have an appetite for big budget spectacle now due to the popularity of comic book films. So the market is actually quite different. The Witcher series is still ongoing and I really enjoyed season one, so I wouldn't rule it out just yet, it is early days. WoT and LotR the Prequel are yet to come out but do demonstrate a willingness to engage in big, epic scale adaptations. Neither of which are fantasy light, and neither of which have a lot of nudity or graphic violence (I am assuming given the source material). The Hobbit had a lot of issues that had nothing to do with adaptation, and a lot of those had to do with stretching material from one book to fill three after a two film structure had been created, then shoehorning in LotR connections which were tonally discordant with the family friendly fun of the children's book, changing director mid production, and sticking in an entire third film that was almost all CGI battle. So studio versus creative differences, logistical issues trying to capitalise in too short a time frame, changing the narrative, the narrative structure, and the tone multiple times through production. Trying to be both a prequel and a children's film at the same time. And having to make stuff up on the fly due to the changes at the last minute. The Witcher 3 game adaptation brought significant numbers to the book sales, as did the first season of the TV show. Particularly for a series of books not written in English. So I wouldn't say that it hasn't been successful. But you are absolutely right that there are bad adaptations out there too. If it was poorly adapted I would be disappointed, but I would still be pleased that it got a chance at least. I would even settle for a small niche success. I just want it to have a chance. And someone arguing that it shouldn't be adapted or even attempted rubs me the wrong way... especially when the arguments were not convincing. We have another adaptation of Dune coming. Will it be good? Will it be bad? Who knows. But I am excited to find out.
@@ACriticalDragon I do lean to your side of the argument - there's no reason Malazan cannot be adapted, or shouldn't. But as someone who is skeptical /pessimistic by nature I see it having slim chances - and can understand fans who'd rather have nothing than a bad one. Yes, we'd still have the books, and it needn't take anything away from our experience, but replacing the dream of a possible adaptation with the bad taste of a failed is a bitter pill. I do admire your optimism in this, and think that's exactly what is needed to make an adaptation a success.
I'd say remove Witcher from your "bad, mediocre or a small niche success" list. It was a successful adaptation and successful business decision by Netflix, which is dominant and not niche in streaming. That success measured by the amount of memes and the "Toss a coin to your witcher" song," of course... :) You could subjectively argue that you didn't like the adaptation, but that's another matter.
After having watched the epicness of Dune Part 2...I cant stop thinking how badly I would love to see Malazan adapted. I want my mind blown in the cinema!!!
With the ability to speak with Erikson himself, why not ask what the original scripts' perspectives were? I'm sure I'm not making up that GotM was OG for screen?
Because I know what the original screenplay was, and that wasn't the subject of the video. The original feature they co-wrote was essentially the Daru sections of GotM.
Ever since I started to read the series I've been wondering about its adaptability. I think if a sufficient amount of money was poured into it (comparable to GoT), it could definitely be visually impressive, which in itself may be worth the effort, as it could help me visualize scenes and characters better during a re-read. This might be less important for people with a great visual imagination but I sometimes struggle to visualize the spacial arrangements and fight scenes where the movement of characters is significant. So even if the adaptation of the story was poorly executed, I would watch the show. And I totally agree with you about all the points you bring up, I think the series begs to be adapted and GoT proved that an epic fantasy show can generate wide interest, rather than remaining the jewel of a narrow sub-culture and thus being a money-sink from the perspective of production. And would I love Malazan merchandise! By the way, I would be happy even if just more artists contributed with various representations of scenes and characters. I have seen quite a few and it's wonderful how different, yet equally stunning they can be, without contradicting the descriptions in the text. For example, I saw the most beautiful Fiddler illustration a few days ago in one of the Malazan facebook groups. So I'd encourage anyone with such skills to illustrate their favorite characters and scenes, they are doing a great service to the community. And who knows, one might catch the eye of somebody browsing the web for ideas for potential movie adaptations.. :) + They wouldn't have to worry in Hollywood about how to force people of color into the story for the sake of this ridiculous new tendency of quotas. Malazan represents a wide variety of people(s) effortlessly, without it being contrived.
I'm all for an adaptation. Some things will be left out, some changed. For good or bad. I read and loved both LOTR and ASOIAF books and screen adaptations. Take them for what they are; your favorite books coming to life in a somewhat different way. You won't get everything you want. I still won't budge on Lance Reddick as Quick, though.
This might be my favorite video of you, A.P.! My mind is spinning with the possibilities. Even if you didn't want to tackle tMBotF as a whole, you could do so many things with the world: (I read GotM, NoK, DG and MoI so far) - Bridgeburners in Mott's Wood movie - Bridgeburners Origins movie - the Chain of Dogs movie - Bauchelain and KB (animated) movies or Anthology series - Night of Knives movie - and soooo many more I don't know enough about yet...
A Chain of Dogs film has been mooted several times by different people, but I think that people overlook how you would have to rewrite and restructure it given that the other threads in DHG are used sometimes to add levity, or to change the tone or pacing. You would need replacements for those scenes and threads in order to make the Chain of Dogs work as a standalone. Or at least, I would think you would. Duicker would likely have to be present from the very beginning of it. you would probably need a bit more comedy/levity early on. You would need to increase the presence and importance of a few characters. Probably have to introduce the nobles and their storyline earlier and make it more prominent. And so on.
@@ACriticalDragon I agree you would have to change a lot, maybe too much. At least one other plot would need to be added, probably a new one since the others in DHG make things more way more complicated. But I would love to see this intense unfolding of events, it always felt very cinematic to me when I read it. And the ending... well theatres would be flooded with tears... Thanks for making these videos!
I was thinking about what Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is doing, and thought why not that? A party based, heavy story RPG, with an army battle system similar to Heroes of Might and Magic. Wrath is even including Mythic Paths, so those who are Ascending could have mechanical benefits from their choices. Or for something completely different: A Paradox game. You could just about run the entire thing as a CK3 mod.
A 20 film series would be amazing, with each film essentially covering half a book's worth of content. Unfortunately that would not be feasible or realistic. But I think that a TV Show is entirely possible, and could produce something really interesting. A Witcher 3 style game would also be great.
As I read (or listen on Audible actually), I keep picturing the events as some sort of anime or cartoon. It's the only way I can picture some of the characters being properly rendered in a TV show. What I keep imagining would look so cool. Heh. The only downside would be if the adaptation were so bad that nobody would want to read the books. I don't know if that has ever happened though. Maybe the Ender's Game movie? I loathed it, but I also love that book so maybe had unreasonable expectations. Or Dune? That movie was ... well, let's just say it was ambitious, and maybe it did get some people to read the book but I can see it turning some off. But I've highly enjoyed many, many adaptations of books, especially LOTR and the Austen novels. I actually enjoyed Stardust and Girl Interrupted more than the books. Basically, I agree that Malazan could be a great adaptation. You really explored some avenues that would be exciting to see.
I don't play favourites anymore. Not since the incident with Deadhouse Gates starting a fight with Reaper's Gale, and Toll the Hounds getting caught in the crossfire. That was not pretty. Shredded paper everywhere. Bookmarks out of action for weeks.
@@ACriticalDragon Yh that happened with Dune for me. I told the original Dune that I am starting to like God Emperor more and it attacked it in broad daylight. My books are still recovering
I've always been a believer of adaptations. if it's bad, I could easily just ignore it. The books will always be here, the words remain unchanged for me to enjoy it like I always did. We live in a golden age of genre fiction television where we have the benefit of longer form of audiovisual storytelling that isn't limited to the 2 hour runtime of movies, and studios are fielding the budgets and production on TV rivaling movies so we know on a technical level it'll look top notch, unlike the campiness that genre fiction TV production were limited by in the '90s and '00s. As for Malazan itself, I guess it all comes down to who the showrunners are and which studio is willing to back such a project. Unfortunately, I cant see any of the big studios today being interested in a Malazan tv series as almost all of them already have their own big sci-fi fantasy show of their own, "their Game of Thrones equivalent" if I may put it.
Hi Henry, thanks for the great points, and thank you for watching. As for Malazan, we never know what will come up in the future. We are still getting more and more superhero films and TV and it has been over twenty years of superheroes dominating cultural narrative.
I’d argue Fiddler instead of/with Tavore. I’m on Toll the Hounds and Fiddler gives you a look at the Bridgeburners in GotM, Malaz 14th army in later books and just the general soldier banter/sapper stuff. He’s also a great character to latch onto as he makes his way at least late into the series. Not sure on his fate
Like I said, this was just one way to do it. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of different structures and arcs you could do. My major point was that it could be done, and it could be done well, and it could be a satisfying project with only 2 seasons, 4 seasons, 6 seasons, or all ten. I build in redundancies to make it more palatable to risk averse production companies.
@@ACriticalDragon Yeah I get you. Well another fantastic video AP! Your channel is one of my favourites and thanks for being so great with responding to comments. Shame analysing fantasy literature is so niche because your channel is the best out there. Probably a big task, but could you maybe do a video on how to start deep reading? I’m fairly experienced myself but I’d like to see your approach. Thx again P’rofessor Fireball!
@@ACriticalDragon I forget what he called it, but J. Michael Straczynski built redundancies in his story structure for Babylon 5 in case they lost actors. Sometimes it was a big change, like replacing the station commander. Other times it was an underling that went missing. The underlings themselves were backups for the Big 5: the ambassadors could have been replaced by their assistants (except for Kosh, who was just a voice). The exigencies of complex productions are at the mercy of real world problems, like actor contracts, that have nothing to do with how well the story is structured. I usually wonder when an actor departs a TV show if it's an HR issue. One case that springs to mind is a season ending episode of Arrow, where the entire cast was stranded on an island... then the island blew up. Oliver himself, the main star, was on a boat, incidentally. So afterwards, the producers turned to the cast of actors (evil rubbing of hands included) and said, "All right, who wants to come back next season?"
@@cap-tavating5862 I will certainly have a think about it. Most of my videos show me doing it slowly and in real time so that people can actually follow along. But I will have a think about specific techniques.
I have seriously wondered if I was the only one who felt this way about adaptations in general. (BTW, my youngest sibling absolutely hates the Peter Jackson Tolkein adaptations, even though they enjoyed watching them at the time they watched them.) (But who would play Kruppe?)
Adapting a story from one medium to another is basically like translating a book to a different language; a direct one-to-one translation of the literal words would lose a lot of the essence of that original text, so a good translator needs to add or rephrase things in a way that it makes sense in the new language while still retaining the magic of the original prose from the language it was written in. The same goes for Books to TV/Film. They're completely different 'languages', so there needs to be an artistic hand reshaping it to make it fit. Otherwise it'll simply be unwatchable or unfeasible. I'd wager if you did it the other way round and took a great film and released just the script as the 'book', it wouldn't be well received at all... even though you could say it's 100% faithful to the source material!
AP you're in a minority with me on this question. Welcome to standing tall in the face of the "common sense" I've seen expressed from most Malazan fans I've talked to. It's good to have company 😂😂🤣🤣🤣
If other fans don't want it, then let us have the adaptation and they can decide not to watch it. Simple. Everyone is happy. They keep their memories of the book pure, and I get my Dragnipur to hang on the wall. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@ACriticalDragon would it still be cool if I didn't have to expend as much effort to get people I know would love it to read it like some kind of weird missionary with a 20 something book long bible? 🤔🤔🤔
@@darkportents9835 Yeah, we will just tell them that the best bits were left out of the adaptation and for 20 easy monthly payments of $19.99 we will send them the secret decoder ring and guide to unlocking their inner Malazan.
@@ACriticalDragon oh you're doing yourself a disservice. You just elucidated your acute understanding of a translation to screen. I'm English, I know all about our tendencies to downplay!! You rock, let it be so
@@ACriticalDragon who's channel is hosting discussion of that one? You may want to volunteer in case, you know, you may need to mute somebody... or even fade them to black. On other hand, that may be a bit similar to what the character does...
Book of the fallen still works. I don't know how to describe it without major spoilers, but it dosent need to be changed imo. ( just remember or look into who's writing the book from the stories perspective)
Oh the marketing ideas - K'Chain talames at Taco Bell, Ruthan Gudd and Plenties, for the health conscious Fiddler's Greens, Quick Ben & Jerry's, Karsa Orlong hemorrhoid cream / toothpaste, etc. Not sure about the franchise idea for Anaster's All You Can Eat Family Buffet. Spinoff could be Kulp Pulp Fiction or Cooking with Bugg. And as was said in an episode of Just Shoot Me referring to Star Wars toys "They're not dolls, they are action figures." But in more seriousness, rpg source book would be awesome. They did it for Black Company for d20. Didn't play GURPS much but Rolemaster/HARP would be a good fit. But 1 and 3 could work, the ending of GotM is almost a Godzilla movie.
Yup. As long as there has been storytelling there have been critiques of the dominant social and political structures. Pop culture references make for a more digestible argument in a UA-cam video though.
One of my questions about adapting Malazan has absolutely nothing about the intricacies of adapting such a massive story and setting... it's actually related to how the Tiste Andii would be visually depicted, and concerns of it being even a little bit reminiscent of blackface, considering the Dungeons and Dragons episode of Community was removed from Netflix due to Ken Jeong's character playing a dark elf and being painted black. I wonder how it would be received.
That is a very valid concern. There could be a number of different make-up techniques used, costume decisions, or CGI effects used. Plus, in terms of casting, then the Andii could all be played by PoC but with enhanced makeup to make the Andii more alien looking. But it is an aspect that would require a fair amount of thought and consideration. As would the Jaghut, Jhag, Napan, and T'lan Imass. There are complex elements in each, not necessarily related to perception or portrayal of race.
@@ACriticalDragon Totally agree! And one reason I would trust an adaptation of Malazan being carefully thought out and considered like you mentioned is I don't see how it could be anything BUT a passion project. It's not something anyone would take on lightly!
What's your opinion on an anime vs. real life adaptation? I think with the major set pieces and the amount of CGI, the initial investment will be huge for life adaptation. Cf. the choices for the Wheel of Time adaptation not to have ageless faces or color-shifting cloaks for wardens. With anime the initial investment will be less and hence the risk of discontinuation will also be less, especially for a streaming platform (as traditional TV it's all about the slots).
Animation has a much more limited appeal than live action. The broader appeal of live action can make the adaptation more mainstream, whereas anime remains niche. Streaming platforms calculate show success on attraction of new viewers, broadcast networks on selling advertisement space and therefore total viewer numbers. Anime fans are typically more tech savvy, are already subscribed to the services that cater to them, and as a niche subculture/fandom are not necessarily the target for advertisers. If you contrast the viewing figures for The Boys versus Invincible I think you would see that borne out. The live action shows have a broader appeal. Both the LotR Amazon series and the WoT adaptation are committed to at least two seasons in order to recoup production costs. If they thought that anime was more cost effective and would create the same viewership both those shows would have been animations. The financial analysis would strongly suggest that live action is the way to go.
@@criticizedreviews1081 I liked Arcane, but the style of the animation is not the issue, it is animation versus live action, and live action generally has much broader appeal than animation, regardless of style.
@@ACriticalDragon I get it, but if I were doing an adaptation I'd much rather do animation to get the whole meat of the story able to be visualized instead of cutting a bunch of things since live action would severely limit what you could do. Unless cgi became better and much cheaper in the next couple of years, who knows it could happen. Technology changes quickly.
@@criticizedreviews1081 The 'meat of the story' would have to be trimmed regardless of whether it was adapted as animation or live action. The trimming has to do with turning a literature based narrative into an audio-visual narrative. They operate under fundamentally different narrative structural paradigms. This affects pacing, structure, scene construction, number of characters that can in frame, number of characters that can be in a show. Then add in whether it is to be a series, mini-series, or a film, because they each have different structural concerns. Animation is also typically a lot more time intensive to produce, so in terms of economy and cost people often over look the time cost which is incredibly attenuated in large scale animation projects. But the major point is that live action appeals to a much broader audience than animation when it comes to mature content.
i feel like we need more books to be made into animation instead of live action bcus look at Castlevania it is amazing and looks great and I think its great to have animations
Having an adaptation of MoI would be cool. Having tens of thousands of people murdered, cannibalised and simultaneously raped sounds amazing. Rated... uhm ? Count me in 😁
It doesn't have to be on screen. They can report that it is happening. Plenty of Zombie series and films that show far worse on screen, and prove very popular. And, if it is off screen, imagine how much more horrific it would be in the viewers' minds? 'This stuff is so dark even Malazan can't show it'... nightmare fuel that you never have to show...
@@ACriticalDragon yeah, I guess. It would also be good for the budget. But part of it has to be shown when they attack the city unless there are some drastic cuts and/or changes.
@@kingplunger1 That is why you get a good production team and some good writers. That is a practical hurdle about how best to adapt it, and there are loads of techniques. Getting it accepted for adaptation is the first hurdle. How they film some of the zombie assaults and that sort of thing provide some good examples of different approaches to this sort of thing. Plus historical fiction adaptations also manage this (with varying degrees of success). The great thing about adaptation is that is does not have to be literal, you can change PoVs, you can reframe things, so there are lots of options.
A bit late to the party on this one, but I disagree about the lack of downside to an adaptation. Personally I think it would be too difficult to make well, and make it interesting to new audiences quickly enough to hook them in, my fear is it also wouldn't get the budget it would need to make it work, but a lot of that will depend on the success, or failure, of the new LotR and WoT series I suspect. However, my main concern is what if what happened with season 8 of GoT actually happened in season one, what would have happened to the popularity of the books? I think they would have taken a hit as I suspect people would use everyone hating on the show as a reason not to read them, even though they are disparate things it would still be used as a stick to beat the books with. Look at the Shannara Chronicles, did that help bring in loads of new readers to those books or put potential readers off? I don't have evidence either way but speaking for myself I know if I hadn't read the books before seeing the first few episodes of that car crash I more than likely wouldn't have gone near them. So while I would like to see an adaptation of Malazan, and if one were to be made I'd definitely watch it, I don't think it's as low risk to the popularity of the books as you do.
The poorly received adaptation of The Dresden Files did little to negatively affect the popularity of the books. A lot of adaptations give bumps to their respective sources even when an adaptation is announced. Even more so if it is confirmed that they are going beyond pilots. The book sales of ASoIaF were significantly increased by the publicity announcements about the show being made, the trailers for the show and the tv show tie in covers prior to the show starting. The general worst case for poorly received adaptations is that they do not significantly improve sales. They very rarely negatively impact sales. It is almost unheard of. So I would have to disagree with you and I think you are grossly over-estimating a negative impact that just isn't seen in the industry. Your example of the Shannara series sort of proves this point. Did it bring in a huge number of new readers? Not a huge number, but it did have a positive impact on sales. If the show had been a runaway success the sales would have been even better. Did it cause Terry Brooks to lose sales and sell fewer books? Nope. So you seem to be arguing that a poor adaptation would result in fewer future sales when experience and the industry tell us that sales will increase with any adaptation being made, but successful adaptations can significantly increase sales.
@@ACriticalDragon I'd need to see the figures to back the claims of increased sales up as it's hard to quantify whether there was a negative impact on sales from Shannara Chronicles other than comparing like for like sales over previous years and I just don't have that sales data. So while accept you may well be correct I haven't seen anything to corroborate it.
And yet you make the contrary argument without the figures either. Your argument is based on the assumption that sales figures drop below 'normal' when a bad adaptation is made. All publicly available data shows that there is almost always an uptick in sales figures when a book is adapted (increase of appearance of volumes on bestseller lists and popular book lists). There is increased publicity, increased name recognition, and increased traffic and talk about the series, even in markets in which the adaptation is not being broadcast. If a show is not well received the author has already received a bump in sales figures from the initial promotion and buzz prior to airing and during the initial honeymoon period of the first few episodes. So there is a net gain, even if it is only temporary and not long-lived. Plus, given the turnover of television shows at present, there is also the fact that the public consciousness about the series can be short lived and not have any long-term effects. I can't think of an example of a television adaptation leading to a decrease in sales figures, although there have been lots of poor adaptations made, or failed adaptations that never made it past pilot.
@@ACriticalDragon When I made my original points I did say they were my opinion, and I didn't have the data to back them up, where you were stating them as if they were fact, which they may well be but I'd expect something to back it up when you are making statements like "The general worst case for poorly received adaptations is that they do not significantly improve sales. They very rarely negatively impact sales. It is almost unheard of." This isn't a pop at you, in case it looks that way, I was the manager of a bookshop for many years and rarely were we ever given actual sales figures from the publishers (to be fair some did, but most didn't) for specific titles, unless it was something that had done particularly well. Which is why I am generally pretty leery of general statements about book sales that don't have hard numbers to back them up.
Oh I completely understand. I also served time in a bookshop, but I also had the benefit of knowing a few publishers and editors. But if you look at the popularity of series such as Dresden, even after a poor adaptation. Or a series like the Southern Vampire Mysteries which again trailed off steeply during its run. There are increased sales for a while before the usual dip, and I have yet to see a series in which there was a negative sales impact created from an adaptation. As to Shannara, the show wasn't a great adaption for readers above a certain age as the target demographic seemed more aimed at an afterschool timeslot rather than primetime. Shannara had viewing figures circa 1mill almost every episode on its initial run in the US., with comparable DVR, but they didn't report worldwide market viewership. Total sales figures of the series reported are in excess of 21 million as reported on Money Inc. but those aren't broken down by year, and are combined for the entire series. Sword of Truth (Legend of the Seeker) was again aimed at a teen audience and had that same bright aesthetic. It was another fairly terrible series. But Goodkind's sales did not dip because of the show. Malazan readership, on the other hand is a fraction of that, so a much smaller fan base. So any bump in advertising, awareness, and availability would be a benefit. There is the old saw that people retire to which is 'the book is always better' which, in some respects, protects book sales from bad media adaptations. There might not always be the bonanza sales bump that publishers and booksellers want, but I honestly have not seen negative sales figures reported on a series due to an adaptation.
Weeeell... Whiskeyjack, Quck Ben, Fiddler, Hedge, Lorn, Raest, Tool, Tattersail, Nightchill, Bellurdan. Those are names that have influence over the next books. The ripples that they create in book one echo all the way to the end. Dont get me wrong, i would love to see it as a TV show, but if its missing the depth of the world, the scope of the plots, then is it really Malazan?? I dont think that the world is ready to sit and watch a 45 min episode about The Snake. You know what im talking about. And if you start cuting these things then again is it really Malazan? The only possible way of adaptation that i can see, is an anime/cartoon type of series.
I think that anime would be too niche, too expensive, and has significantly more limitations than most people seem to be aware of. But each to their own.
Niche or not i am watching whatever comes out. :D Tbh i have no idea what it takes to make any kind of movie/clip, but the way i see it we can have the infinite amount of characters and landscapes. Oh the siege of Pale (dreaming face) :)
@@traqnhristov960 but remember animation is essentially all cgi in a specific style. That is why it takes so long to make. You might also notice that they tend not to animate more than 3 'objects' on screen at a time. It is one of the reasons why I prefer live action.
Honestly just give me a Malaz Anime. I think that's where it would shine brightest. The language of Scope and Scale would be lost in something live action, I think.
Hi Eric, thanks for watching. I am not sure about that. Jackson's LotR showed that scope and scale are possible, all that remains is the will, the support, and the imagination.
@@ACriticalDragon oh fully agree if we go on the movie tangent. I suppose in my head I was thinking series more than movie. I sort of disregard movies when thinking about Malazan just because of its length. Could you do it? Totally, but doing 10 movies, or crunching 10 books worth of storytelling into a limited run of movies just doest really sit right with me. There's also this level of... Alien to Malaz that things like Asoif/Lotr don't *really* contend with, as the races are primarily human/human adjacent and with malaz the liberties taken push that. Can cg make good looking 12 foot tall raptors? Totally. I just think that if your going to have something be 90% cg just make it wholly cg/animated. Push aesthetic to the extreme.
@@Alebeard I think that a live action TV series could be excellent. LotR proved that live action can do it. And, if we consider the fact that TV productions get more cinematic every year in terms of sets, props, and effects, I actually think that this is doable.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Allow me to put this simply: never have I been so happy to have my opinions so thoroughly refuted! I tip my hat to you, AP. Well said sir.
Hi Hood. I hope that you enjoyed it and weren't offended.
Oh, not at all! I set out on that video with the intention of being proved wrong categorically at some point, and you sir, (along with many salient arguments I've read) have done it!
@@ACriticalDragon Would you mind if I shared this with Iskar Jarak's Unabridged Burners??
Not at all. Go right ahead.
I've read all mlaz books some several times I think ICE books could be adapted but the BOTF just has too much nuance to put to movies.the pleasure in reading them is in the thoughts of characters more than the doings.no justice could be done to them
An adaptation will give us hardcover books in print again. It'll be cool just for that. And I get to be the smiling fan in the background watching newbies cry their hearts out at tragic events.
Hard covers, coffee table art books, fancy maps, games, jewellery, bookmarks ... and of course the bragging rights and smug rights of book readers over tv viewers 😂
More Malazan is always going to be more gooder 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ACriticalDragon A.P. kind of a random question. In some interview or another with Erikson, he mentioned that he used to be an artist. Have you ever seen any of his drawings? More specifically, has he ever drawn any of the various races in the MBOTF? I would love to see his rendition of a Forkrul Assail.
Can’t wait for the K’Chain Che’Malle cuddly toy.
Self-sharpening plushies... The Matron toy is great for hugs - Toc
Yeah, in the fandom we call it *Key chain chemalle* 😛
A Baby K'Chain Che'Malle, aww, how cute
I'm sure Mike ( of Booktube fame ) will appreciate a Kruppe plushie.
A Toc toy that you can hug and squish into different shapes?
Fiddler would have to be a pov character. He’s the heart of the series
Well he is one of the PoVs of the series, so it would be likely if close third was the chosen narrative style that he would be one.
Ooooooo, I want a Dragnipur to hang on my wall! Also, is the next adaptation of Pride and Prejudice actually being called “Bloody Pride and Prejudice”? Will it be a vampire version? Cool! My tepid take on adapting Malazan: it had best be a television series, not a feature film. Your proposals sound pretty cool, including Tavore being a POV character. I like it!
They already did Pride and Prejudice and Zombies... it was... ummmm ... certainly an interesting adaptation and reimagining of the book.
But for Malazan Books 1 and 3 are one significant arc, books 2 and 4 are a second elf-contained arc. So the risk to the producers is reduced, unlike say, WoT in which it takes 14 huge volumes to get to the major arc conclusion, and several of the arcs meander and peter out. MBotF can be done in smaller mini-arcs that clip together. So even if the show got cancelled, there would still be complete stories within the series.
@@ACriticalDragon Elf contained, that's elf spelled t-i-s-t-e, 😂.
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd Ahhh my Tolkien was showing. 🤣🤣🤣
@@ACriticalDragon Sounds solid to me! Methinks you’ve given this some serious thought, my friend. Is there a screenplay hiding in your desk drawer?
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I keep telling you, I can't write for toffee. Structural scaffolding is easy to create, but you need good writers to come in and actually fill in all the details.
What do you mean AP, last time the producers literally stormed my bedroom and my A Song of Ice and Fire books were gone. Recently my Dune novel misteriously disappeared, I'm starting to suspect something's going on...
I spray Production Goblin Repellent around the property to keep them away.
Only on condition that AP is showrunner and Iskar Jarak does the title credits.
I think that they would need some actually experienced people running the thing... but it would be incredibly cool to get to visit and talk to the writing team about what they were doing. I would love to see how they put it together and how they decide what to keep and what to leave out.
@IskarJarak would do some awesome credits... and ensure that the lasers and fireballs were done right.
@@ACriticalDragon I would love to see you play Tehol in the live adaptation. Please tell me that you can act.
"If it can written or thought, it can be filmed." Now filmed well, that's another story...
As someone who read ASOIAF before the Game of Thrones show, can confirm watching everyone’s reaction to the Red Wedding was such a great experience 😂
Haha, nice timing, I just commented on his video an hour ago! Long story short, I think a tv-show/movie/animation of the Malazan world would be great, but I am not so sure who I would trust to do that nowadays. The "let's make money quickly out of this without much effort" trend for fantasy productions lately scares me a bit.
I really liked how you thought out the plan for a tv show, you even got me a bit excited about the idea, damn you, you can be so contagious with your enthusiasm! :D
PS. I think I want more of the invisible straw man that walks around your house. He seems like an interesting character.
Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, and LotR prequel all had impressive budgets and that bodes well for investment in a big show.
The completed series of MBotF bodes well for solid adaptation that pays attention to character and story arcs.
Even a weaker or limited adaptation of Books 1 and 3 would be something to drive up interest in the series and stimulate interest in the genre.
I think A.P's strawman is something akin to the young ones 5th housemate
@@rupertcrump1312 either that or a glimpse into the insanity of my brain.
I definitely want it adapted!
Do I have a convert? This seems a far cry from your comment of 'I agree with everything you have said' on Hood's video. Have I convinced you?
@@ACriticalDragon I agree with everything he said except those points prohibiting an adaptation. It’s complex, the prose would get washed out, a lot of people would probably be pissed that it wasn’t faithful enough, and it would be absolutely glorious nonetheless!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You sir are brilliant.
Now I really want this TV series to happen, some fantastic ideas.
Nah, Malazan books would have to be dumbed down too much to adapt them to the screen.
I LIKE the fact that I had to read them twice before really beginning to understand and appreciate them. Too much would be lost by adaptation.
Well, if it ever gets adapted I will call the production company and let them know to hide the show from you. 😁
Everyone wins.
Thanks for the video! Hood is an OG from the early Iskar-Discord days! I've got to make a video about this as well!
It is a fun topic, and a TV series adaptation would be really great. I would love to see an attempt made of adapting Malazan.
@@ACriticalDragon I feel like the structure of the chapters lends itself really well for a TV show
Oh yeah, I really like your idea! Adapting the story with a different angle would be really interessting. This way a potential tv show could actually add good new stuff to the books which I find much more appealing than simply visualizing (and cutting) the story of the books.
All we need now is a production company to hire me and hand me a cheque for a gazillion dollars and I will get it done 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The only misgivings I have for a Malazan adaptation would be in regard to one of my favorite aspects of the series, the philosophy. The only way I could think of to address this in a cinematic format would be to dub in some of the inner-monologuing, which could come across in a weird way if it isn't done creatively. I suppose you could also hint at the philosophy through some creative use of cinematography of some sort, but that would also be very difficult to do right. Anyway, as long as the philosophy so beautifully woven into the series is touched on in some way I'll be happy.
Hi Tai,
I think that some of that can be done via dialogue, some through scene framing, some through cinematography, and some through action.
But an adaptation would be a different beast, so it would not be the same. But we will always have the books to reread.
@@ACriticalDragon and lets not forget the good ol' "monologue via a narrator".been scaring children witless around a hearth since the stone age! :D
Also, this is EXACTLY what I was after, so thank you! 😁
So did I change your mind and make a believer out of you?
@@ACriticalDragon I dare say you (and some others) have made a believer of me good sir!
I NEED the malazan merchandise.
So do I...
I think it should because there are just so many cinematic moments in MoI alone. Like every chapter has a memorable event. I think it would run into problems such as exposition and introspection, but I think it could definitely work as an animated series. I get what Hood himself was saying about an adaptation needing to cut portions of the books, but I think it's only inevitable, given how large the series is and how much filler is in the books. I call it filler because even though I enjoy it, it wouldn't translate well to or have a point in an adaptation.
Hi Andrew, but that is precisely the point with an adaptation, you find ways to streamline the whole narrative, you create natural conclusions and season arcs so that you can have a satisfying show without necessarily adapting every part of all ten books. To argue that you shouldn't adapt it because some things would have to be cut makes no sense. Every adaptation cuts things.
Amazing video A.P!! I agree with many of your points. You really got me excited with your proposal at the end, damn you!! I would really love to get the Tv show, I think that the chain of dogs would be one of the most iconic things to ever be recorded for TV. Its true that I wouldnt trust too many production companies with the task, but with a good selection of showrunners, it could become something epic with all the published material.... besides, I need bridgeburner and bonehunter funkopops, oh and also a big Karsa pillow. Im already picturing that first sequence in the midst of the siege of Pale, it would be jaw dropping. Thanks for your cold takes!!
Hi Jay, I am glad that I convinced you. Now I just need a bunch of Hollywood producers to be equally convinced and excited by the idea.
Im an actor, so I’ll work for free if this ever happens!! Even if I turn out to be a random solider that gets killed in the first five seconds haha!
The only downside is the absurd amount of money I would spend on merch xD. Amazing content you are creating by the way =)
Thank you very much.
You can bet HBO and the like are looking around HARD for the next GoT. It made them to much money not to, even if they botched the ending. Malazan has the extra bonus of being "finished" Some of the downsides of Malazan would be the amount of casting required, amount of CGI or completely cutting major characters that will be required, and I dont know if audiences have the patience for the hard shifts in story/paceing we see in the books. Sadly I could see Karsa being cut out entirely.
Hi Husk, like most adaptations (and GoT is a great example), you would conflate certain roles to save on character actors. You would trim scenes, you would use extras in the background to give a false sense of scale, and so on.
Yes there would be a large cast, but I doubt it would be larger than GoT.
There are a lot of different ways to do it.
Think of the Lady Stoneheart storyline that was essentially axed, or how the Sandsnakes were reconceptualised.
We often get hung up on literal translations and forget that we can take a step back and restructure it to focus more on the narrative events and a smaller core cast... Which, oddly, caters to the very things that so many readers actually want.
To reach a broader audience you would streamline and simplify some of the narrative elements.
So satisfying to watch P'Rofessor Fireballs unleashing his warrens, hood didn't know what hit him.
Cold iron versus tepid iron?
😂😂😂😂
Definitely cold iron 😂
Loved the points about Star Trek and Pride and Prejudice (two of my favorite television franchises, obviously with Pride and Prejudice the BBC/A&E miniseries)
If Denis Villeneuve would adapt it to TV, that would be lovely. I would love hardcovers of this series...
for me personally, the worst thing about a malazan adaptation would be the excruciating wait from announcement to air date.
Cryogenic suspension has come a long way. Alternatively close to speed of light travel with have a dilation effect that will shorten the wait time. 😁
@@ACriticalDragon haha if disney would pick up the series, they could offer cryogenics as a package deal. subscribe to disney plus now and we freeze you over till your show of choice airs. now that's great maketing!!
@@profesortrip Note to self: Step 1 - Steal Trip's idea. Step 2 - Market it to Disney. Step 3 - Profit.
@@ACriticalDragon a.p.: puts little finger to mouth and laughs evilly :'D :'D
@@profesortrip That is why I attended Evil Graduate School to get a PhD in Evilness.
It's easy to imagine how cool it would turn out to see malazan on the screen but try think of the last time you heard of an adaptation being true to / as good as the source material.
We love these books so much it's 99% guaranteed to come out dissapointing with such high expectations
The Boys and The Expanse have been pretty good.
I love that you mentioned total war because thats my dream for a game variant
I completely agree with your take on Tavore. I always thought that, if an adaptation was ever to occur, she should be prominent from the start. I might also add that my perfect fancast for her would be Jessie Buckley. Not only is she an incredibly talented actress, she is a chameleon, able to become plain, cold and even intimidating at the blink of an eye.
Looking at the shelf behind you...I would love to hear you discuss interesting techniques used by authors other than Erikson (not that I don't also want the Erikson stuff!). I would love to hear your thoughts on Martin, Hobb and others and the narrative techniques that they employ. Maybe even a compare and contrast between authors would be interesting to me. Thanks for your comments about an adaptation! I agree that it wouldn't take away from the existing material, and I bet Malazan nerds would have an absolute field day speculating about how they were going to adapt the various storylines.
I have lots of plans to do this in the future, but I am still working through Malazan, and that is taking some time. But I will get around to it.
@@ACriticalDragon Awesome! Yeah, I can imagine that there's a lot to talk about regarding Malazan. I look forward to all of your videos!
Thank you very much, Todd.
I will try to vary the content in the future.
I've only read the first Farseer trilogy but to me it's the complete opposite to Malazan in many ways :)
Well I for one need to see this now!!! Also I need all of the merchandise
I don't think I'll have to do a video on this anymore now 😆
I think a fourth main arc in season 1 and 2 might actually be Karsa. That would provide us with another additional crossover character for a possible season 3.
And of course, gimme all the Mandy Pu plushies NOW!
But I want to see your video and how you would do it.
I already know what is in my brain, now I want to hear everyone else's ideas that aren't 'anime'.
Just imagine the amount of CGI necessary to bring all those potsherds to life.
Just kidding, loved the video. ;)
Just imagine all the ochre... ochre as far as the eye could see...
I'm only three books in but I'd love an adaptation. Can't wait to read more.
Keep reading my young Bridgeburner. It ages like fine wine.
I think they should do Scorch and Leff series. I would love to see what they were doing during Gardens of the Moon.
I'm only just starting Bonehunters, but I love the idea for of your 3 main POV characters for the first seasons.
There are loads of different ways to adapt the series, and it can be fun to think them through.
I'm sold, Sign me up for the cast.. I'll go for the roll of Spindle or Twist.
I would audition for Dead Soldier No. 6... I would like to try for Dead Soldier No. 4 but I know my range.
I would love to see MBOTF adapted into a TV show or an adult anime/cartoon. I truly believe it could be done and done well as long as the right people were involved. Erikson and Esslemont would have to be heavily involved and the show runners would have to be fully committed. None of this half season shite like with what happened in the later seasons of Game of Thrones.
Great video! I agree whole heartedly with you that an adaptation would be only positive for the Malazan Universe. Tv, movies, video games, and Kruppe merchandise. I want it all.
Kruppe bobble head for the win.
Dr Fireball, lighting up the battle field of book tube. Have mercy!
Hi Benjamin, I hope that you enjoyed it.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. I greatly appreciate it.
@@ACriticalDragon sir I appreciate your insights, please never stop with the content.
Thanks for the video. Personally I think adapting the series in anime format ( Castlevania ) would be more feasible and the series can focus on Bridgeburners time in either Seven cities or Black dog forest, where they get separated from the main army and have their own adventures. In Black dog forest for example, meeting with Bole Brothers, Tiste Andi, introducing different characters and world to the viewers.
Adapting to anime would limit viewership, potentially cost a lot more, and, depending on style of animation, be very divisive. The media format with the broadest appeal is live action.
Focusing on a storyline that has not been written is not an adaptation, and I wouldn't be against it as a spin off after the adaptation was a wild success and took the world by storm. But it is hard to market a new story in an existing franchise before you have created the existing franchise.
@@ACriticalDragon style of animation would be a big factor for me. I'm not opposed to stylized art, but not a fan of some of the recent scratchy inkpen primitivist styles. I'd want something painterly and rich. The upcoming What If... series from Marvel looks promising in that regard.
Brilliant video sir 🤓
I always pictured Guillermo Del Toro, Alfonso Cuarón, and Alejandro González Iñárritu doing movie based versions of bauchelain and korbal broach stories
That would be brilliant.
@@ACriticalDragon this is from sister ..
Very interesting. I disagree with some of his points though, especially about it being no big deal if a movie or adaptation is different from the books, because people can still go read the books? I disagree. I think that any book, once made into an adaptation, stops people from actually going back and reading the books because they have a visual short hand instead in the movie. So IF the adaptation is terrible then it does ruin the books. I have never read Lord of the Rings after watching the movies because I have an easier and more digestible version in the movie; after Game of Thrones came out as a TV series, I stopped reading the books at about book 4 because I just would rather wait till the visual adaptation came out.
What I am trying to say is that it is in fact important that any adaptation of Malazan be done CORRECTLY, because it will ruin the experience of the books and I wouldn’t return to the books with it circulating visually/in film. In that respect, I do think it is simply to challenging to adapt Malazan. It’s just too complex and expansive. I just don’t know how they would do it and if they did do it I would worry that they wouldn’t do it right. 🤭😉
@@Mr13chapters and yet I have seen multiple versions of Batman, Superman, James Bond, James T Kirk, and two different adaptations of Dune and LotR (I am particularly fond of the animation).
We don't always have our imagination colonised.
@@ACriticalDragon I am with you sir 🤓
Already imagining the watercooler talk: "Icarium's cool and all, but Karsa would kick his ass".
Thank you for another amazing discussion and welcome straw man!
p.s. I'm off making myself a Dragnipur now!
Watercooler talk and Dragnipur hangers... Best reasons for adaptation.
This was fascinating!
Malazan is amazing not because it's so dark and brutal, but because it espouses compassion above all, no matter what it costs.
Hollywood isn't ready to criticize capitalism? I'd say Hollywood isn't ready to defend capitalism. The coldest take in entertainment is a celebrity at an awards show critiquing the means by which they got rich and famous.
I would say Bonehunters should be filmed with the other 7 Cities stories, and then Midnight Tides. So that the viewer is always in one part of the world. If we've already established moving books for Deadhouse and MOI, we should be consistent.
Given that the theme is not a significant one until midway through the series I don't see it being an issue. And even then, it is not the focus of the narrative, it is one of several themes explored.
@@ACriticalDragon oh. I agree. I always saw it as a better critique of the late British Empire than Americana anyway. 😉
If we could get the first four books adapted, then I would worry about the rest. Getting the first four would an achievement in and of itself, and if that was all we got, I think it would still be rewarding.
@@shawngillogly6873 Malaz is an island nation... and I think Erickson said in an interview that the Letherii Empire was modeled on the British.
"As a nation, the Letherii believed in constant progress and expansion without end. They revered coin above all else." (from the wiki)
@@marsrock316 yep. But the actual conquest was based on a "What if the Dakota Uprising overthrew the US Government"?
Great video, I was skeptical before but always thought it is a shame it hasnt been adopted in any way visually for screens and I think you demonstrated that it is def possible with Malazan that it could be done. A good writing team that consults with SE and ICE obviously being a necessity of course but really the only other constraints are budget and good casting.
Thanks Jack.
There are lots of ways to do it, and very few fantasy series are unadaptable.
Can I please steal the sassy line, "Yes, strawman. I am" for future use??
EDIT: You're killing me with the strawman asides XD
Of course. Invisible Strawman is happy to help out.
Interesting video, A.P. In case we have a Malazan movie / show / anime, I would love it if someone consulted SE and ICE for it, and that SE and ICE receive a lot of money for it too. And I hope they'll make it good. On the first pages of GotM "Gardens of the Moon's bare bones first saw life in a role-playing game. Its first draught was a feature film co-written by the two creators of the Malazan world, myself and Ian C Esslemont"
I want Malazan merchandise so much! T-shirts, and toys and key chain k'chains, etc :) I have some ideas for t-shirts for quite some time.
I must confess that there are books that I've read after seeing the movie based on them. And I was not disappointed, it was a win-win. I enjoyed the movie, and, of course, I enjoyed the books a lot better. The same may apply to many people in case Malazan gets screen time. Nothing to lose, a lot to win, in my opinion :)
Hi Rox, you are absolutely right. Anyone adapting this would be crazy not to utilise the talents of Erikson and Esslemont.
To be honest, most of the paraphernalia I could take or leave, but I would dearly love some coffee table books of the art and maps, and maybe an illustrated encyclopedia.
@@ACriticalDragon those are some great ideas!! There are print shops that could print high quality images all over a long dress or a ladies's summer t-shirt, or on a skirt, or on a hoodie, or a men's shirt, on blankets, pillow cases, bean bags, rucsacs, teddy bears, cups, phone cases etc. Even coloring books for stressed people. There are SO many possibilities for merch, it would be amazing to finally get some official merch, and I am aware that can only happen when the books get screen time and a wide audience.(which I'm sure it would happen)
@@ACriticalDragon "coffee table books of the art and maps, and maybe an illustrated encyclopedia" - that along with an official Malazan RPG release are the top of my wishlist constantly. I really wish that an official RPG setting book would come either rules agnostic or even GURPS.
@@RoxanaMagdaD I like the blanket idea. I have a Doctor Who blankie, so why not a Malazan one?
@@marsrock316 aww, I have a Doctor Who Time Lord Fairy Tales book. I'd buy Malazan merch in the blink of an eye. Hahaha, now I imagine my own Kurald Galain blanket :P
I’d be OK with a muppet version of Gardens of the Moon. Kermit as Paran, Miss Piggy as Tattersail, The Count as Rake, etc...
The adaptation I would enjoy more is a TV series on the continuing misadventures of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach. That could be done amazingly well.
Talk about a niche adaptation. It would be fun though, and the budget would be a lot more reasonable.
Bauchelain and Korbal Broach played by Bert and Ernie? Kruppe as played by Fozzie Bear? Who would Grover play? Or Big Bird? Or Oscar?
Big Bird would clearly be a K'Chain Che'Malle.
I think SE, er Hood, might need medication to deal with an anime adaptation. Hmm, is that a jaghut little pill?
By the way, still waiting to hear how you feel about losing your arm...
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd The maelstone is particularly brilliant.
@@ACriticalDragon Cookies, bah. 😂
I agree with you AP.
The books will always exist and their magic, enchantment and brilliance are forever preserved.
An adaptation for the screen could be made, restricting, for example, to just one book, with allusions to other moments in the past or the future.
It could focus on the Paran brothers or Fiddler.
And who wouldn't want to see Tehol and Bugg debate the current state of the world?
Thanks for the content and congratulations on your channel. I adore
Big hug from Portugal
Thank you very much, João.
My opinion? YES!!! Do it today! All it would take is the desire to make it and somebody that wants to spend all of the money it would take but the technology to do it right is there
MJ Daniel, that's the spirit.
I whole-heartedly would love an adaptation. Maybe not from an existing book, but an original story in the Malazan world, unique to the movie/series to be made.
I would even love a Malazan game, accessing a Warren as a special ability with my character I'd be playing.
There's so much additional media that can be created from Malazan!
So not an adaptation but a new screenplay set in the world. Why not just adapt the Darujhistan thread into a feature then? It would save writing an entirely new narrative.
@@ACriticalDragon you're right, and it would.
But-- Don't you think Erikson would enjoy writing something new for the big screen?
A new narrative would add more content in the Malazan canon , and can be written specifically for film/series, to save from chopping up and cutting out from source material.
@@alynam82 but Gardens of the Moon was originally a screenplay and is quite different to the novel. It was primarily the Darujhistan sections of the book.
Personally I would love to see an adaptation first, then see the world explored through spin offs.
That would leave Erikson and Esslemont free to write more novels (the things that I like more than TV in the first place).
There is already so much material from which unique adaptations could be crafted that I don't see the need to write brand new material at the moment.
But I understand your position.
Two of my favorite film adaptations are drastically different than the source material: Heart of Darkness to Apocalypse Now, King Leer to Ran
World War Z was also, in some ways, very different to the book, and yet I thoroughly enjoyed it as an adaptation. But Apocalypse Now was a really interesting adaptation. Of course, Avatar was a very poor adaptation of Word for World is Forest.
Well, Hood has certainly brought you to life (not that you were very dead earlier). Love your fiery pitch. I, too, would love to see Malazan. It would ideally make the series into a cultural phenomenon, which it so richly deserves to become.
Hi Johan, I am glad that you enjoyed the video.
Now we just need to convince a million more people and that should be enough to convince a few producers. 😁
The Internet lost it's shii... uh, composure, when the Red Wedding happened on GoT. I imagine (still a newbie) there are a few RWs in Malazan that would suffice.
@@marsrock316 Oh yes... The internet would lose so much sh*t, diapers would be in short supply.
@@JohanHerrenberg Oh no! Would it also entail another toiler paper panic!?
@@marsrock316 but think of the publicity. We would have thousands of new viewers wanting to know what the new Red Wedding was.
You make a lot of solid points, and I agree an adaptation would be awesome if done well. I just have very little faith it will be done well.
When thinking about fantasy adaptations over the last decades three pop out as exceptional successes - Harry Potter, LotR and GoT.
Harry Potter had the momentum of a worldwide hype supporting it, and was relatively easy to adapt (pretty narrow scope of story, locations and characters).
Especially the hype makes this an outlier, people were gonna buy into this shit no matter what.
Game of Thrones was fantasy light, and had shock value and nudity. Fantasy light is always an easier sell.
Lord of the Rings was something of a unique project as well - it's one of the best known series in the genre, had fanatical fans running it, and was an audacious project that asked the crew and cast to dedicate a significant part of their lives for years as they shot all the movies concurrently.
The Hobbit shows how hard it is to repeat that formula.
Pretty much every other adaptation has been bad, mediocre or a small niche success at best.
Dresden Files , Sword of Truth, Shannara, Discworld, Witcher, Percy Jackson - if we look at those, I think the fandom would rather have them not exist. They brought few if any new readers to the books, and made little if any money.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that one day all the winds blow in the right direction for an exceptional adaptation, but right now I can't see it happening.
And the question becomes ; rather no adaptation or a bad one?
Rejoice might be the better option to start adapting Erikson's work 🤔
Oh, I would definitely be down for the merch though. I would love to have Dragnipur and a huge flint sword on my wall, I need the Che'malle keychain, and t-shirts featuring Karsa, Rake, Tool and others with quotes and stuff.. hell yes! 🤘
Hi Rob,
Personally I liked the Dresden Files adaptation and think that it could have been great if the network had been a bit more confident in it. If it were made now there is every chance that it would actually be a great success. Streaming services have significantly altered the approach to making some filmic narratives that aren't then dependent on ad revenue and regular time slots.
There are plenty of paranormal romance series that have been fairly successful, ,as well as a number of horror/fantasy films, and we have an appetite for big budget spectacle now due to the popularity of comic book films. So the market is actually quite different.
The Witcher series is still ongoing and I really enjoyed season one, so I wouldn't rule it out just yet, it is early days.
WoT and LotR the Prequel are yet to come out but do demonstrate a willingness to engage in big, epic scale adaptations. Neither of which are fantasy light, and neither of which have a lot of nudity or graphic violence (I am assuming given the source material).
The Hobbit had a lot of issues that had nothing to do with adaptation, and a lot of those had to do with stretching material from one book to fill three after a two film structure had been created, then shoehorning in LotR connections which were tonally discordant with the family friendly fun of the children's book, changing director mid production, and sticking in an entire third film that was almost all CGI battle. So studio versus creative differences, logistical issues trying to capitalise in too short a time frame, changing the narrative, the narrative structure, and the tone multiple times through production. Trying to be both a prequel and a children's film at the same time. And having to make stuff up on the fly due to the changes at the last minute.
The Witcher 3 game adaptation brought significant numbers to the book sales, as did the first season of the TV show. Particularly for a series of books not written in English. So I wouldn't say that it hasn't been successful.
But you are absolutely right that there are bad adaptations out there too.
If it was poorly adapted I would be disappointed, but I would still be pleased that it got a chance at least. I would even settle for a small niche success. I just want it to have a chance. And someone arguing that it shouldn't be adapted or even attempted rubs me the wrong way... especially when the arguments were not convincing.
We have another adaptation of Dune coming. Will it be good? Will it be bad? Who knows. But I am excited to find out.
@@ACriticalDragon
I do lean to your side of the argument - there's no reason Malazan cannot be adapted, or shouldn't.
But as someone who is skeptical /pessimistic by nature I see it having slim chances - and can understand fans who'd rather have nothing than a bad one.
Yes, we'd still have the books, and it needn't take anything away from our experience, but replacing the dream of a possible adaptation with the bad taste of a failed is a bitter pill.
I do admire your optimism in this, and think that's exactly what is needed to make an adaptation a success.
@@robpaul7544 nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Yes, a bad adaptation would suck, but we will never know unless we try.
I'd say remove Witcher from your "bad, mediocre or a small niche success" list. It was a successful adaptation and successful business decision by Netflix, which is dominant and not niche in streaming. That success measured by the amount of memes and the "Toss a coin to your witcher" song," of course... :)
You could subjectively argue that you didn't like the adaptation, but that's another matter.
@@ACriticalDragon "WoT... neither of which have a lot of nudity or graphic violence."
But will there be a lot of crossing of arms under breasts?
After having watched the epicness of Dune Part 2...I cant stop thinking how badly I would love to see Malazan adapted. I want my mind blown in the cinema!!!
With the ability to speak with Erikson himself, why not ask what the original scripts' perspectives were? I'm sure I'm not making up that GotM was OG for screen?
Because I know what the original screenplay was, and that wasn't the subject of the video. The original feature they co-wrote was essentially the Daru sections of GotM.
Ever since I started to read the series I've been wondering about its adaptability. I think if a sufficient amount of money was poured into it (comparable to GoT), it could definitely be visually impressive, which in itself may be worth the effort, as it could help me visualize scenes and characters better during a re-read. This might be less important for people with a great visual imagination but I sometimes struggle to visualize the spacial arrangements and fight scenes where the movement of characters is significant. So even if the adaptation of the story was poorly executed, I would watch the show. And I totally agree with you about all the points you bring up, I think the series begs to be adapted and GoT proved that an epic fantasy show can generate wide interest, rather than remaining the jewel of a narrow sub-culture and thus being a money-sink from the perspective of production. And would I love Malazan merchandise!
By the way, I would be happy even if just more artists contributed with various representations of scenes and characters. I have seen quite a few and it's wonderful how different, yet equally stunning they can be, without contradicting the descriptions in the text. For example, I saw the most beautiful Fiddler illustration a few days ago in one of the Malazan facebook groups. So I'd encourage anyone with such skills to illustrate their favorite characters and scenes, they are doing a great service to the community. And who knows, one might catch the eye of somebody browsing the web for ideas for potential movie adaptations.. :)
+ They wouldn't have to worry in Hollywood about how to force people of color into the story for the sake of this ridiculous new tendency of quotas. Malazan represents a wide variety of people(s) effortlessly, without it being contrived.
I'm all for an adaptation. Some things will be left out, some changed. For good or bad. I read and loved both LOTR and ASOIAF books and screen adaptations. Take them for what they are; your favorite books coming to life in a somewhat different way. You won't get everything you want. I still won't budge on Lance Reddick as Quick, though.
This might be my favorite video of you, A.P.! My mind is spinning with the possibilities. Even if you didn't want to tackle tMBotF as a whole, you could do so many things with the world: (I read GotM, NoK, DG and MoI so far)
- Bridgeburners in Mott's Wood movie
- Bridgeburners Origins movie
- the Chain of Dogs movie
- Bauchelain and KB (animated) movies or Anthology series
- Night of Knives movie
- and soooo many more I don't know enough about yet...
A Chain of Dogs film has been mooted several times by different people, but I think that people overlook how you would have to rewrite and restructure it given that the other threads in DHG are used sometimes to add levity, or to change the tone or pacing. You would need replacements for those scenes and threads in order to make the Chain of Dogs work as a standalone. Or at least, I would think you would.
Duicker would likely have to be present from the very beginning of it. you would probably need a bit more comedy/levity early on. You would need to increase the presence and importance of a few characters. Probably have to introduce the nobles and their storyline earlier and make it more prominent. And so on.
@@ACriticalDragon I agree you would have to change a lot, maybe too much. At least one other plot would need to be added, probably a new one since the others in DHG make things more way more complicated. But I would love to see this intense unfolding of events, it always felt very cinematic to me when I read it. And the ending... well theatres would be flooded with tears... Thanks for making these videos!
I remember something about Erikson wanting a 10 movie adaptation. I'd be happy as hell. Of ourse it should. 🙃 Video game RPG would be awesome too.
I was thinking about what Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is doing, and thought why not that? A party based, heavy story RPG, with an army battle system similar to Heroes of Might and Magic. Wrath is even including Mythic Paths, so those who are Ascending could have mechanical benefits from their choices.
Or for something completely different: A Paradox game. You could just about run the entire thing as a CK3 mod.
A video game series, Witcher style, would be awesome. Wonder if an MMO would work?
A 20 film series would be amazing, with each film essentially covering half a book's worth of content. Unfortunately that would not be feasible or realistic. But I think that a TV Show is entirely possible, and could produce something really interesting. A Witcher 3 style game would also be great.
As I read (or listen on Audible actually), I keep picturing the events as some sort of anime or cartoon. It's the only way I can picture some of the characters being properly rendered in a TV show. What I keep imagining would look so cool. Heh.
The only downside would be if the adaptation were so bad that nobody would want to read the books. I don't know if that has ever happened though. Maybe the Ender's Game movie? I loathed it, but I also love that book so maybe had unreasonable expectations. Or Dune? That movie was ... well, let's just say it was ambitious, and maybe it did get some people to read the book but I can see it turning some off.
But I've highly enjoyed many, many adaptations of books, especially LOTR and the Austen novels. I actually enjoyed Stardust and Girl Interrupted more than the books.
Basically, I agree that Malazan could be a great adaptation. You really explored some avenues that would be exciting to see.
Thank you very much Andrea.
I hope that you have a great weekend.
maybe we’d get a new printing of Trade Paperbacks... that actually match, and are the same size
Oh if only.
AP I’m curious as to what your favourite MBotF book is
I don't play favourites anymore. Not since the incident with Deadhouse Gates starting a fight with Reaper's Gale, and Toll the Hounds getting caught in the crossfire. That was not pretty. Shredded paper everywhere. Bookmarks out of action for weeks.
@@ACriticalDragon Yh that happened with Dune for me. I told the original Dune that I am starting to like God Emperor more and it attacked it in broad daylight. My books are still recovering
I've always been a believer of adaptations. if it's bad, I could easily just ignore it. The books will always be here, the words remain unchanged for me to enjoy it like I always did.
We live in a golden age of genre fiction television where we have the benefit of longer form of audiovisual storytelling that isn't limited to the 2 hour runtime of movies, and studios are fielding the budgets and production on TV rivaling movies so we know on a technical level it'll look top notch, unlike the campiness that genre fiction TV production were limited by in the '90s and '00s.
As for Malazan itself, I guess it all comes down to who the showrunners are and which studio is willing to back such a project. Unfortunately, I cant see any of the big studios today being interested in a Malazan tv series as almost all of them already have their own big sci-fi fantasy show of their own, "their Game of Thrones equivalent" if I may put it.
Hi Henry, thanks for the great points, and thank you for watching.
As for Malazan, we never know what will come up in the future.
We are still getting more and more superhero films and TV and it has been over twenty years of superheroes dominating cultural narrative.
I’d argue Fiddler instead of/with Tavore. I’m on Toll the Hounds and Fiddler gives you a look at the Bridgeburners in GotM, Malaz 14th army in later books and just the general soldier banter/sapper stuff. He’s also a great character to latch onto as he makes his way at least late into the series. Not sure on his fate
Like I said, this was just one way to do it. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of different structures and arcs you could do. My major point was that it could be done, and it could be done well, and it could be a satisfying project with only 2 seasons, 4 seasons, 6 seasons, or all ten. I build in redundancies to make it more palatable to risk averse production companies.
@@ACriticalDragon Yeah I get you. Well another fantastic video AP! Your channel is one of my favourites and thanks for being so great with responding to comments. Shame analysing fantasy literature is so niche because your channel is the best out there. Probably a big task, but could you maybe do a video on how to start deep reading? I’m fairly experienced myself but I’d like to see your approach. Thx again P’rofessor Fireball!
@@ACriticalDragon I forget what he called it, but J. Michael Straczynski built redundancies in his story structure for Babylon 5 in case they lost actors. Sometimes it was a big change, like replacing the station commander. Other times it was an underling that went missing. The underlings themselves were backups for the Big 5: the ambassadors could have been replaced by their assistants (except for Kosh, who was just a voice).
The exigencies of complex productions are at the mercy of real world problems, like actor contracts, that have nothing to do with how well the story is structured.
I usually wonder when an actor departs a TV show if it's an HR issue. One case that springs to mind is a season ending episode of Arrow, where the entire cast was stranded on an island... then the island blew up. Oliver himself, the main star, was on a boat, incidentally. So afterwards, the producers turned to the cast of actors (evil rubbing of hands included) and said, "All right, who wants to come back next season?"
@@marsrock316 I think that he called them trapdoors.
The replacement of the psychic officer was one that came up early.
@@cap-tavating5862 I will certainly have a think about it.
Most of my videos show me doing it slowly and in real time so that people can actually follow along.
But I will have a think about specific techniques.
I can’t imagine any way to adapt Malazan except in Tartakovsky’s animated style. I think it would fit perfectly
I have seriously wondered if I was the only one who felt this way about adaptations in general. (BTW, my youngest sibling absolutely hates the Peter Jackson Tolkein adaptations, even though they enjoyed watching them at the time they watched them.)
(But who would play Kruppe?)
it could have A.P narrating the prologue at the start of each season like the log lady in twin peaks.
Would I have to do the impressive trailer voice? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Adapting a story from one medium to another is basically like translating a book to a different language; a direct one-to-one translation of the literal words would lose a lot of the essence of that original text, so a good translator needs to add or rephrase things in a way that it makes sense in the new language while still retaining the magic of the original prose from the language it was written in.
The same goes for Books to TV/Film. They're completely different 'languages', so there needs to be an artistic hand reshaping it to make it fit. Otherwise it'll simply be unwatchable or unfeasible.
I'd wager if you did it the other way round and took a great film and released just the script as the 'book', it wouldn't be well received at all... even though you could say it's 100% faithful to the source material!
Exactly, and that is why they hire professional authors to write the novelisations of films and television productions.
AP you're in a minority with me on this question. Welcome to standing tall in the face of the "common sense" I've seen expressed from most Malazan fans I've talked to.
It's good to have company 😂😂🤣🤣🤣
If other fans don't want it, then let us have the adaptation and they can decide not to watch it. Simple. Everyone is happy. They keep their memories of the book pure, and I get my Dragnipur to hang on the wall. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@ACriticalDragon but would malazan still be cool if adaptation fans started reading the books? 🤔🤔🤔
@@ACriticalDragon would it still be cool if I didn't have to expend as much effort to get people I know would love it to read it like some kind of weird missionary with a 20 something book long bible? 🤔🤔🤔
@@darkportents9835 Yeah, we will just tell them that the best bits were left out of the adaptation and for 20 easy monthly payments of $19.99 we will send them the secret decoder ring and guide to unlocking their inner Malazan.
Tepid take 🤣🤣🤣
The Vampire Diaries and The Originals?
I see you're а man of culture too, Critical Dragon :D
Only the finest examples for my discerning audience.
A malazan videogame would can be the best thing un existence
Should it be adapted? Yes
How? Correctly
as long as future adaptations can still be made later
Well, it would be nice to get one in the bag first before worrying about a second one.
I would love an adaptation. I wouldnt mind if they start with a movie of the chain of dogs.
Well A.P you've just given yourself a new job!
Show consultant along with Steve!
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It would be a disatrous adaptation then. 2hrs of slowly analysing a symbol then hand waving away all the action.
@@ACriticalDragon oh you're doing yourself a disservice. You just elucidated your acute understanding of a translation to screen. I'm English, I know all about our tendencies to downplay!! You rock, let it be so
If it was Animated then it would be able to capture the essence i wouldn't want a live action
Not sure I agree. I am not a fan of most anime styles.
You're just making this whole argument because you want to star as yourself in the Crack'd Pot Trail spinoff!
Damn... I have been found out.
@@ACriticalDragon who's channel is hosting discussion of that one?
You may want to volunteer in case, you know, you may need to mute somebody... or even fade them to black.
On other hand, that may be a bit similar to what the character does...
You would have to change the name to "Malazan Movie of the Fallen"
I will get the branding and marketing team on it right away... they have come back with 'Malazan'... not original I grant you, but effective.
Book of the fallen still works. I don't know how to describe it without major spoilers, but it dosent need to be changed imo. ( just remember or look into who's writing the book from the stories perspective)
@@Epyon1201 I've read the series, its ok, he will do the director commentary in the special features on the dvd release.
Oh the marketing ideas - K'Chain talames at Taco Bell, Ruthan Gudd and Plenties, for the health conscious Fiddler's Greens, Quick Ben & Jerry's, Karsa Orlong hemorrhoid cream / toothpaste, etc.
Not sure about the franchise idea for Anaster's All You Can Eat Family Buffet.
Spinoff could be Kulp Pulp Fiction or Cooking with Bugg.
And as was said in an episode of Just Shoot Me referring to Star Wars toys "They're not dolls, they are action figures."
But in more seriousness, rpg source book would be awesome. They did it for Black Company for d20. Didn't play GURPS much but Rolemaster/HARP would be a good fit.
But 1 and 3 could work, the ending of GotM is almost a Godzilla movie.
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Sell it, A.P.! There are so many cinematic elements that it would be a crime not to have The Malazan Book of the Fallen adapted for TV.
@7:15 Try the 1940s, eg Citizen Kane, or even before that. Charlie Chaplin was no fan of Capitalism that's for sure.
Yup. As long as there has been storytelling there have been critiques of the dominant social and political structures. Pop culture references make for a more digestible argument in a UA-cam video though.
I would even love to see Erikson and Esslemont write an original story to be adapted to video game. It must be an RPG of course.
RPG or more books.... Tough choice.
Yes I would Ike to see it adapted. But I know it is so expanse of a read that alot will be cut out.
Another one for the win column.
One of my questions about adapting Malazan has absolutely nothing about the intricacies of adapting such a massive story and setting... it's actually related to how the Tiste Andii would be visually depicted, and concerns of it being even a little bit reminiscent of blackface, considering the Dungeons and Dragons episode of Community was removed from Netflix due to Ken Jeong's character playing a dark elf and being painted black. I wonder how it would be received.
That is a very valid concern. There could be a number of different make-up techniques used, costume decisions, or CGI effects used. Plus, in terms of casting, then the Andii could all be played by PoC but with enhanced makeup to make the Andii more alien looking. But it is an aspect that would require a fair amount of thought and consideration. As would the Jaghut, Jhag, Napan, and T'lan Imass.
There are complex elements in each, not necessarily related to perception or portrayal of race.
@@ACriticalDragon Totally agree! And one reason I would trust an adaptation of Malazan being carefully thought out and considered like you mentioned is I don't see how it could be anything BUT a passion project. It's not something anyone would take on lightly!
What's your opinion on an anime vs. real life adaptation?
I think with the major set pieces and the amount of CGI, the initial investment will be huge for life adaptation. Cf. the choices for the Wheel of Time adaptation not to have ageless faces or color-shifting cloaks for wardens.
With anime the initial investment will be less and hence the risk of discontinuation will also be less, especially for a streaming platform (as traditional TV it's all about the slots).
Animation has a much more limited appeal than live action. The broader appeal of live action can make the adaptation more mainstream, whereas anime remains niche. Streaming platforms calculate show success on attraction of new viewers, broadcast networks on selling advertisement space and therefore total viewer numbers. Anime fans are typically more tech savvy, are already subscribed to the services that cater to them, and as a niche subculture/fandom are not necessarily the target for advertisers. If you contrast the viewing figures for The Boys versus Invincible I think you would see that borne out. The live action shows have a broader appeal.
Both the LotR Amazon series and the WoT adaptation are committed to at least two seasons in order to recoup production costs. If they thought that anime was more cost effective and would create the same viewership both those shows would have been animations. The financial analysis would strongly suggest that live action is the way to go.
@@ACriticalDragon you don't have to do anime, you could do 2d, 3d western animation like something like Arcane which became insanely popular.
@@criticizedreviews1081 I liked Arcane, but the style of the animation is not the issue, it is animation versus live action, and live action generally has much broader appeal than animation, regardless of style.
@@ACriticalDragon I get it, but if I were doing an adaptation I'd much rather do animation to get the whole meat of the story able to be visualized instead of cutting a bunch of things since live action would severely limit what you could do. Unless cgi became better and much cheaper in the next couple of years, who knows it could happen. Technology changes quickly.
@@criticizedreviews1081 The 'meat of the story' would have to be trimmed regardless of whether it was adapted as animation or live action. The trimming has to do with turning a literature based narrative into an audio-visual narrative. They operate under fundamentally different narrative structural paradigms. This affects pacing, structure, scene construction, number of characters that can in frame, number of characters that can be in a show.
Then add in whether it is to be a series, mini-series, or a film, because they each have different structural concerns.
Animation is also typically a lot more time intensive to produce, so in terms of economy and cost people often over look the time cost which is incredibly attenuated in large scale animation projects.
But the major point is that live action appeals to a much broader audience than animation when it comes to mature content.
i feel like we need more books to be made into animation instead of live action bcus look at Castlevania it is amazing and looks great and I think its great to have animations
I am a fan of The Expanse and The Boys, I don't think that either would have been improved by being anime.
Having an adaptation of MoI would be cool. Having tens of thousands of people murdered, cannibalised and simultaneously raped sounds amazing. Rated... uhm ? Count me in 😁
It doesn't have to be on screen. They can report that it is happening. Plenty of Zombie series and films that show far worse on screen, and prove very popular. And, if it is off screen, imagine how much more horrific it would be in the viewers' minds? 'This stuff is so dark even Malazan can't show it'... nightmare fuel that you never have to show...
@@ACriticalDragon yeah, I guess. It would also be good for the budget. But part of it has to be shown when they attack the city unless there are some drastic cuts and/or changes.
@@kingplunger1 That is why you get a good production team and some good writers. That is a practical hurdle about how best to adapt it, and there are loads of techniques. Getting it accepted for adaptation is the first hurdle. How they film some of the zombie assaults and that sort of thing provide some good examples of different approaches to this sort of thing. Plus historical fiction adaptations also manage this (with varying degrees of success).
The great thing about adaptation is that is does not have to be literal, you can change PoVs, you can reframe things, so there are lots of options.
A bit late to the party on this one, but I disagree about the lack of downside to an adaptation. Personally I think it would be too difficult to make well, and make it interesting to new audiences quickly enough to hook them in, my fear is it also wouldn't get the budget it would need to make it work, but a lot of that will depend on the success, or failure, of the new LotR and WoT series I suspect. However, my main concern is what if what happened with season 8 of GoT actually happened in season one, what would have happened to the popularity of the books? I think they would have taken a hit as I suspect people would use everyone hating on the show as a reason not to read them, even though they are disparate things it would still be used as a stick to beat the books with. Look at the Shannara Chronicles, did that help bring in loads of new readers to those books or put potential readers off? I don't have evidence either way but speaking for myself I know if I hadn't read the books before seeing the first few episodes of that car crash I more than likely wouldn't have gone near them.
So while I would like to see an adaptation of Malazan, and if one were to be made I'd definitely watch it, I don't think it's as low risk to the popularity of the books as you do.
The poorly received adaptation of The Dresden Files did little to negatively affect the popularity of the books. A lot of adaptations give bumps to their respective sources even when an adaptation is announced. Even more so if it is confirmed that they are going beyond pilots.
The book sales of ASoIaF were significantly increased by the publicity announcements about the show being made, the trailers for the show and the tv show tie in covers prior to the show starting.
The general worst case for poorly received adaptations is that they do not significantly improve sales. They very rarely negatively impact sales. It is almost unheard of.
So I would have to disagree with you and I think you are grossly over-estimating a negative impact that just isn't seen in the industry.
Your example of the Shannara series sort of proves this point. Did it bring in a huge number of new readers? Not a huge number, but it did have a positive impact on sales. If the show had been a runaway success the sales would have been even better.
Did it cause Terry Brooks to lose sales and sell fewer books? Nope.
So you seem to be arguing that a poor adaptation would result in fewer future sales when experience and the industry tell us that sales will increase with any adaptation being made, but successful adaptations can significantly increase sales.
@@ACriticalDragon I'd need to see the figures to back the claims of increased sales up as it's hard to quantify whether there was a negative impact on sales from Shannara Chronicles other than comparing like for like sales over previous years and I just don't have that sales data. So while accept you may well be correct I haven't seen anything to corroborate it.
And yet you make the contrary argument without the figures either.
Your argument is based on the assumption that sales figures drop below 'normal' when a bad adaptation is made. All publicly available data shows that there is almost always an uptick in sales figures when a book is adapted (increase of appearance of volumes on bestseller lists and popular book lists). There is increased publicity, increased name recognition, and increased traffic and talk about the series, even in markets in which the adaptation is not being broadcast.
If a show is not well received the author has already received a bump in sales figures from the initial promotion and buzz prior to airing and during the initial honeymoon period of the first few episodes. So there is a net gain, even if it is only temporary and not long-lived.
Plus, given the turnover of television shows at present, there is also the fact that the public consciousness about the series can be short lived and not have any long-term effects.
I can't think of an example of a television adaptation leading to a decrease in sales figures, although there have been lots of poor adaptations made, or failed adaptations that never made it past pilot.
@@ACriticalDragon When I made my original points I did say they were my opinion, and I didn't have the data to back them up, where you were stating them as if they were fact, which they may well be but I'd expect something to back it up when you are making statements like "The general worst case for poorly received adaptations is that they do not significantly improve sales. They very rarely negatively impact sales. It is almost unheard of."
This isn't a pop at you, in case it looks that way, I was the manager of a bookshop for many years and rarely were we ever given actual sales figures from the publishers (to be fair some did, but most didn't) for specific titles, unless it was something that had done particularly well. Which is why I am generally pretty leery of general statements about book sales that don't have hard numbers to back them up.
Oh I completely understand. I also served time in a bookshop, but I also had the benefit of knowing a few publishers and editors.
But if you look at the popularity of series such as Dresden, even after a poor adaptation. Or a series like the Southern Vampire Mysteries which again trailed off steeply during its run. There are increased sales for a while before the usual dip, and I have yet to see a series in which there was a negative sales impact created from an adaptation.
As to Shannara, the show wasn't a great adaption for readers above a certain age as the target demographic seemed more aimed at an afterschool timeslot rather than primetime. Shannara had viewing figures circa 1mill almost every episode on its initial run in the US., with comparable DVR, but they didn't report worldwide market viewership.
Total sales figures of the series reported are in excess of 21 million as reported on Money Inc. but those aren't broken down by year, and are combined for the entire series.
Sword of Truth (Legend of the Seeker) was again aimed at a teen audience and had that same bright aesthetic. It was another fairly terrible series. But Goodkind's sales did not dip because of the show.
Malazan readership, on the other hand is a fraction of that, so a much smaller fan base. So any bump in advertising, awareness, and availability would be a benefit.
There is the old saw that people retire to which is 'the book is always better' which, in some respects, protects book sales from bad media adaptations.
There might not always be the bonanza sales bump that publishers and booksellers want, but I honestly have not seen negative sales figures reported on a series due to an adaptation.
Yo he pensado q una novela gráfica de Malaz sería fantástica
I want a Malazan series to happen because none of my friends will read it.
That would be a fun side-effect.
I want a Karsa Orlong's funko pop hahahaha
AP cast as Iskaral Pust! 😂😂😂
And to think that I liked you. 😁
Weeeell... Whiskeyjack, Quck Ben, Fiddler, Hedge, Lorn, Raest, Tool, Tattersail, Nightchill, Bellurdan. Those are names that have influence over the next books. The ripples that they create in book one echo all the way to the end. Dont get me wrong, i would love to see it as a TV show, but if its missing the depth of the world, the scope of the plots, then is it really Malazan?? I dont think that the world is ready to sit and watch a 45 min episode about The Snake. You know what im talking about. And if you start cuting these things then again is it really Malazan? The only possible way of adaptation that i can see, is an anime/cartoon type of series.
I think that anime would be too niche, too expensive, and has significantly more limitations than most people seem to be aware of.
But each to their own.
Niche or not i am watching whatever comes out. :D Tbh i have no idea what it takes to make any kind of movie/clip, but the way i see it we can have the infinite amount of characters and landscapes. Oh the siege of Pale (dreaming face) :)
@@traqnhristov960 but remember animation is essentially all cgi in a specific style. That is why it takes so long to make.
You might also notice that they tend not to animate more than 3 'objects' on screen at a time.
It is one of the reasons why I prefer live action.
Honestly just give me a Malaz Anime. I think that's where it would shine brightest. The language of Scope and Scale would be lost in something live action, I think.
Hi Eric, thanks for watching. I am not sure about that. Jackson's LotR showed that scope and scale are possible, all that remains is the will, the support, and the imagination.
@@ACriticalDragon oh fully agree if we go on the movie tangent. I suppose in my head I was thinking series more than movie. I sort of disregard movies when thinking about Malazan just because of its length. Could you do it? Totally, but doing 10 movies, or crunching 10 books worth of storytelling into a limited run of movies just doest really sit right with me. There's also this level of... Alien to Malaz that things like Asoif/Lotr don't *really* contend with, as the races are primarily human/human adjacent and with malaz the liberties taken push that. Can cg make good looking 12 foot tall raptors? Totally. I just think that if your going to have something be 90% cg just make it wholly cg/animated. Push aesthetic to the extreme.
Great video and great points by the way. Sort of stumbled on this via UA-cam autoplay. A pleasant surprise.
@@Alebeard I am very glad that you found the channel. I hope that there are some other videos on here that you can enjoy.
@@Alebeard I think that a live action TV series could be excellent. LotR proved that live action can do it. And, if we consider the fact that TV productions get more cinematic every year in terms of sets, props, and effects, I actually think that this is doable.
I want Malazan to be adapted so that "Witness." can enter its natural place in the pop cultural lexicon and replace "Hold my beer" 😂
That is the best reason yet.
I am stealing that.