As a developer for audio software, plugins and software synths I know where the problems are, what restrictions on the math need to be made to make it work on an average CPU, so yes, they can do a lot, and we have come a very long way but no, they are physically impossible to replace the real thing. We simply just cheat or approximate to make it sound similar, within the capabilities at our hands. Urs from u-he gave some great insight into that. This being said, however, the average user cannot tell or hear the difference, and therefor the math is good enough and plugins are totally fine. And the math is even suprisingly less magickal and mysterious than one might think. There are companies selling you a literal tanh() function with some fancy graphical knobs for 29,-
10 years ago I wouldn't dream of making the music I do without genuine vintage hardware. Now it's not a problem at all and I have videos on here where people believe they're hearing genuine vintage synths, when in fact they're hearing plugins. No complaints from anyone of them, even if they claim they hate plugins. ;-)
I would add one more hack... Send the output of the preamp into a great set of speakers and MIC them. I did this on a track years ago. I took a piano part that was playing from Kontakt, and Mic'd it across the room, and it sounded very pretty.
You used the laptop the way I think a laptop should be used in a recording session. Basically, a laptop should be treated as an instrument, and just like a digital or analog instrument, the outputs should go into an analog mixer and be processed and mixed through a rack of analog processing and FX sound editing gears, which will definitely stamp that analog sound texture. This is especially true if you connect a 16-outputs interface to the laptop, which means you can send up to 16 VST instrument tracks outputs. Each output channel/track can be sent, mixed, and processed individually through the analog mixer channels rack processors. It is essentially joining digital and analog in a different or maybe a better way.
I've done this with DI violin. Violin pickups often give a really scratchy sound that can't be fixed just by adding EQ and reverb. So I played it back through a speaker lying on its back and positioned the mic off axis as if the speaker was a real violin.
Wow, Espen, instead of just having the plug-in sitting in your DAW on a MIDI track, you export it into an audio signal chain. That’s a different angle entirely. It’s December 2nd, 2024 as I comment, and I was just telling a fellow musician yesterday how I don’t use plug-ins any longer for being anti-sequencer since the end of 2012. This method of capturing the sound of the plug-ins almost tempts me to do two things I had considered, upgrading my own laptop with a more complete DAW than I’ve ever used *and* getting an Akai MPC Key for the plug-ins.
Glad to hear this, Espen. Since I have moved exclusively in the box since 2004, I have been through several iterations of this technique by taking my tracks out of my DAW/computer and recording them back. First, by using the converters of the Creamware Pulsar interface (long gone now) and last by using an SSL 12. It definitely injects the analog character to the digital tracks. It takes time but the results worth it. You can even put an analog compressor or mixer in between for more coloration. I have also used a Allen and Heath analog mixer and a FMR RNLA7239 amplifier for more drastic results! 😁
This is how i've been doing it for over 20 years, in the early days of VST's they sounded quite thin or harsh, so i bought a lot of (budget) processors like compressors and fx to give them more life. Still using that same gear (with a lot more ;)) to this day.
I used to produce most of my first Psytrance vinyl records for Cosmophilia label with an old Apple Laptop and Rebirth RB-338 on it running through EQ's and external compressor, perfect ;-)
Interesting. I must confess, whenever I hear about this kind of thing, I can't help remember the days when our 4-track cassette demos, bounced into noise floors that were three stories high, prevented us from any serious consideration from radio stations, record labels and even our own friends. It was not a good time for Indie and DIY musicians. Thankfully, the DAW changed everything. Now, it doesn't mean that 'old' and 'noisy' are bad and, as shown here, can legitemately become good artist choices. I love the idea of using old computers to run VSTs and plugging their outputs into analogue mixing consoles, just like pre-MIDI and pre-USB vintage synths. Heck, my Korg Wavestate is nothing more than a keyboard and a Raspberry Pi. Very nice. Thank you for making this video.
Using them in stand alone Modus with a little outside Love is a good way to recycle all the VSTs lost in my Computer Nirvana. Thinking outside the Box as always , thanks for that inspiration.
Nice. I usually bounce it all down in Cubase. Then send what I need to send out to various hardware and bring them back in via line signals. It gives me the option to use various hardware chains for different sounds (cleaner like Avalon for strings and a Tube DI for Moog like sounds). This also utilizes my analog to digital Apogee converters. Almost like re-amping, one can send to guitar pedals like this and to guitar amps as well (as long as the impedance is right).
Great video espen. My first vst/plug in was the rebirth 338 back in 1996. I have an original tr909 but haven’t used it again since getting the rebirth 338 software.
Dont mean to be a dick but are you def?? An infant could tell the difference. Rebirth was great for the day but cant hold a candle to a real 909 or 303 or 808. I mean yeah today there are some superb clones, but rebirth 338? really?
Using a vintage hardware synth as a controller for VSTs satisfies both the need for amazing sound / capability of the VSTs and the (sometimes needed) emotional connection to a 'real instrument'. I like your setup a lot!
This is a nice way to do it. I've been using my Prophet-600 as both VST player and standalone synth (updated to the newest v2022 firmware, easily the best it's ever sounded). Having the first-ever consumer MIDI synth from 1982 controlling 2024 VST instruments is quite fun!
Totally! Plugs deserve more treatment and get into the chains like any other hw sources. That's why they are called plugins. Especially Arturia, I'm with it from V2. Also I run plugins into Model D or ARP2600. Though I have zero hw "pedals" there is no limit the other way around as well. Running hw synth thru guitar centric sw processor is cool too! Cheers!
I had previously figured this out a few years ago! Using Linux, along with Ardour as the main DAW and running a hardware mixer with a separate laptop running Ableton Live, FL Studio, etc... It really gives the sound more presence this way imo
Using a vintage synth to MIDI control a VST on a modern laptop running through various hardware to be finally recorded onto an older computer to produce 80's inspired music. I wonder how many eras are touched on in there 🙂
i have played a wurlitzer vst trough some nice monitors, mic''d them with some vintage microphones and then recorded the thing - wow - that was just what it needed to get of that clean sound - so usefull if you record "" analog"" on two alesis HD24
I've been trying to use the Line 6 Helix to treat VSTs as its so powerful, its got emulations of a lot of classic fx and processing. I've also got a Warm Audio Tone Beast and Neve 1073 I can use.
It's interesting to see what different approaches there are for the home studio. As I work exclusively with plugins, I basically take exactly the opposite approach and try to avoid fully rendered audio tracks for as long as possible so that I have total recall until the end and can still re-adjust all the parameters of the instruments. So far, I've even mastered in the same project, but I'm actually considering rendering all tracks into a new project for that in future.
Unless I'm working for a client I don't want the option of total recall until the end. I find that thought limits my inspiration in the creative process. I commit as many tracks as possible during recording. Printed wet with effects and everything. To me that's liberation. And it's the 80s way. ;.)
thanks for sharing, uad software preamps will have to do for someone like me who isn't motivated enough to use hardware fx and processing but yeah you make those softsynths sound amazing 😁
I agree with the lack of sound of many VSTs, but I use the Kazrog True Iron for that. I think it beautifully compliments the other software. I have a MIDI bounce channel strip that I use for enhancing the plugin sounds when turning them into audio in Logic.
This is the pose I strike when my wife asks for a bite of my pizza: 6:28. I really like your song Computer Love. Looking forward to the whole album. Cheers.
I recently almost bought an old Hammond organ cabinet to play and record Native instruments B4 organ through. Space constraints and common sense stopped me. :)
To be honest I don't like the production of your singing voice. It seems to me that there is a lack of surplus production on it (it lacks thickness for example IMO). But it may be an artistic choice and I know that it is something that is hard to do yourself without an engineer. On the other hand, I like your love of sounds and the strength you put into searching for them.
My computer has two separate audio interfaces so I just slave Fl Studio or Reason and record them from program to program.. Get the program Loop-be and now you have virtual midi cables from program to program and daw to daw and you can start and stop them just like hardware... thank me later. But I run a complete hybrid setup. You can also get a vst host program and now all of your plugins can become standalone and you can skip the host(Fl studio or Reason) and go straight to the daw and slave your standalone vst's like hardware and come back and use them setup and ready to go everytime. Especially if you have studio 1, the rabbit hole gets very deep.
@EspenKraft cheers, i did read through a heap of comments, Easier if you mentioned the EQ in your description. thanks for the reply . Much appreciated.
I could have, but by not mentioning it I increase the number of comments and that itself drives the algorithm to suggest the video to more people. ;-) Cheers
What synth and preset did you use on your song " settle the score ", which is a string pad sound ? Sound like a classic sound , that s why i talk about preset .
@@EspenKraft Well, it's funny, in fact I had already "clicked" on your presets on the Korg, I remember it now. And yet it's been a while This is a good sign for me: it is confirmed ! I'll have to buy this... ;)
I also do the something like that, cause i totally love the synth keyboard of the dx7 FD-II, but when i use the yamaha as a master keyboard to drive a vst, if i'm not wrong it send only key velocity from 0 to 99, it can't send a full message because of internal limit...correct me if i'm wrong
Didn't you have an Arturia keyboard controller in the past? Though from a side angle, the keys on the DX7 look longer. It's funny, though, that you use a 40 year old synth to control a piece of software. I'll give this workflow a bit of thought. It's interesting.
Not ideal, but you can rescale the input range on the DAW. I tweak the velocity of my MIDI keyboards on Logic so the response feels more consistent between them.
No plans to do that. This is not a question of "better" or "worse" really. How a sound sounds on itself is not important. All the sounds will be mixed together with others and that determines how they will be sculpted in the first place. Any A/B comparison is useless.
I sometimes feel midi plugin synths tend to lack some definition when everything is exported/rendered out as one stereo mix at the end. This way I can add some texture because they've gone through the analog eq and whatnot before being recorded.
It's not a question of "good" or "bad". It's a workflow I like to use to sculpt the sound of plugin synths before recording them. When I make my own music I have the time to do it like this.
I don't. That's not what I show here. The computer running the VST plugins is just that, running the soft synths I want to PLAY. I play them, and the output of that computer is taken through various pieces of gear before I record them on another DAW in another computer. The last part I don't show here at all.
How are you dealing with latency when playing virtual instruments from your laptop(s)? Are you able to get a low enough latency to make playing live feel good?
That's not a problem when I record like shown in this video where I only have one instrument in the memory. I get the latency down to around 2 ms or so on the Mac M1.
Hi Espen, I also do this, but usually just for my outboard effects (Strymon El Capitan, Lexicon multi-FX, and Eventide H9). But maybe I need to look for an old rack mount EQ unit to “soften” up some of the harshness of the digital VST sounds? Food for thought. As to the audio quality of today’s virtual instruments, you are spot on. For starters, what are the alternatives to using the Arturia Synclavier, Fairlight CMI and CS80 VSTs? Buying the real hardware versions? Hardly. Plus, Hans Zimmer won the Oscar for the soundtrack to Dune. The main synthesizer he used was the Zebra 2 VST by U-he. In fact, if you buy this VST you get the Zebra HZ with all his sounds. I suppose Hans doesn’t realize how “crap” these virtual instruments sound either? 😄
Correct. Any working producer and composer knows to use the right tools for a job. If they didn't they wouldn't make a living from doing music. Only hobbyists think otherwise. ;-)
@@EspenKraft so what would be your standard EQ move then? Soften the highs and boost the mids? Something that could be done with a eq plzgin after recording? I would like to hear an A/B comparison whether it really makes that muvh of a difference...
This isn't about "better" or "worse", it's about a way of doing it basically. It's not something one has to do. I just like to record my soft synths this way many times.
Hi Espen I'm sorry I if this very basic, but i have VST i wish i could have some of my fav preset instantly available as playback samples (eg such from a xv5080). can you maybe demo how to sample a synth/keyboard VST instrument (not single sample like drum hits) but best way to do it chromatically for use in hardware. Thanks
You should use SampleRobot for this. It's made for things like that. I use it myself and I have a video about it here already. Check that out. I sample hardware synths in my video, but you can do it directly inside a VST as well. Check out their website for more info. Cheers
@@EspenKraft Oh sorry Espen I thought it was an older one. Didn't you use to use an old one in your old videos? I can't remember now! I like Cubase 5 on the mac on OS 9 :)
I have many computers with different daws and sequencing programs. My main daw runs Nuendo 4 though and that's what I usually show and use in my videos. Not in this one though. This is a pretty new Mac M1 with Cubase 11 pro.
I like to record my loops onto a reel to reel tape machine then duplicate multiple copies and splice them together and rework all my tracks into a 16 track from 1971 just to make it really complicated.
@@EspenKraftlove that you do this. I had years in a room full of machines and wire and I love my laptop that can do way more than 20k worth of gear in the early 90's.😊
Ah, yes... that's the NEON from Steinberg. And the VB-1. I did a video about them a while back. I go through my old VST5 rig. It's the PC you can see on the left behind me in the intro of this video.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess you can't sample poly portamento patches like in the JD-800, for instance? Admittedly, there aren't many. For most bread-and-butter work that's not essential.
Yes, if I need to sync up an arp I'd run MIDI clock out of the DAW I'm recording into, into the external computer running the soft synth. That happens.
What's recorded in the DAW is recorded like any hardware synth. The only added latency might be what's going out of the first computer, but the latency there is about 2ms so of no consequence.
@@Fallingoverbackwards well looks like Espen records them 'live' so not using MIDI to edit/quantise etc meaning he can layer different plugin synths after each other ?
Correct. This method is used to record my synth parts as audio. I always record my synths as audio. I almost never use MIDI plugins, except when I'm working for clients.
Great vid.....same here. I generally run mine thru a piece like the SP404MK2 for Fx, Elektron compression, and then some sort of tube for warmth. INB4 digital cry babies attack you...
The thing about vst......u cannot use it externally..you have to record it with the same computer.......u can hear the computers clock ticking like an old computer loading a game......listen and you should be able to hear it faintly,,,,,put the amp on full and line out from the computer and you will hear computer jargon
What interface are you using? You should not be getting computer/motherboard sounds on any of your outs. That usually happens with the analog outs of onboard sound cards.
If your using sounds that are that digital sounding why bother taking them into the analog domain. They sound terrible anyway. Dx7? The worst sounding synth of all time. Thank god for analog.
Two years later:
We created a VST plugin that emulates Espen Kraft sitting in his room tweaking his hardware equalizer
Why not indeed. :P
I would call that "The Final Kraftdown"
As a developer for audio software, plugins and software synths I know where the problems are, what restrictions on the math need to be made to make it work on an average CPU, so yes, they can do a lot, and we have come a very long way but no, they are physically impossible to replace the real thing. We simply just cheat or approximate to make it sound similar, within the capabilities at our hands. Urs from u-he gave some great insight into that. This being said, however, the average user cannot tell or hear the difference, and therefor the math is good enough and plugins are totally fine. And the math is even suprisingly less magickal and mysterious than one might think. There are companies selling you a literal tanh() function with some fancy graphical knobs for 29,-
10 years ago I wouldn't dream of making the music I do without genuine vintage hardware. Now it's not a problem at all and I have videos on here where people believe they're hearing genuine vintage synths, when in fact they're hearing plugins. No complaints from anyone of them, even if they claim they hate plugins. ;-)
I've heard many emulations that nail it tbh. What they cant nail is the hands-on feel of hardware.
The amplification is difficult to get precise on. Like shorten the envelopes and use a delay/reverb for the tail-end of the sound.
@morphoice. I agree....do you happen to have any link to what Urs had to say regarding this?
I would add one more hack... Send the output of the preamp into a great set of speakers and MIC them. I did this on a track years ago. I took a piano part that was playing from Kontakt, and Mic'd it across the room, and it sounded very pretty.
If you have a nice sounding room. ;-)
You used the laptop the way I think a laptop should be used in a recording session. Basically, a laptop should be treated as an instrument, and just like a digital or analog instrument, the outputs should go into an analog mixer and be processed and mixed through a rack of analog processing and FX sound editing gears, which will definitely stamp that analog sound texture. This is especially true if you connect a 16-outputs interface to the laptop, which means you can send up to 16 VST instrument tracks outputs. Each output channel/track can be sent, mixed, and processed individually through the analog mixer channels rack processors. It is essentially joining digital and analog in a different or maybe a better way.
I've done this with DI violin. Violin pickups often give a really scratchy sound that can't be fixed just by adding EQ and reverb. So I played it back through a speaker lying on its back and positioned the mic off axis as if the speaker was a real violin.
Wow, Espen, instead of just having the plug-in sitting in your DAW on a MIDI track, you export it into an audio signal chain. That’s a different angle entirely. It’s December 2nd, 2024 as I comment, and I was just telling a fellow musician yesterday how I don’t use plug-ins any longer for being anti-sequencer since the end of 2012. This method of capturing the sound of the plug-ins almost tempts me to do two things I had considered, upgrading my own laptop with a more complete DAW than I’ve ever used *and* getting an Akai MPC Key for the plug-ins.
Love this workflow dude! Same reason I love running VSTs out of my DAW and through pedals before back in.
i would love to know the tech side of doing that how would i go about doing this say in reason studio 12 ?
It such a basic trick missed because some just want fast results. I sometimes record vstis through a real tape and analog mixer machine too .
Glad to hear this, Espen. Since I have moved exclusively in the box since 2004, I have been through several iterations of this technique by taking my tracks out of my DAW/computer and recording them back. First, by using the converters of the Creamware Pulsar interface (long gone now) and last by using an SSL 12. It definitely injects the analog character to the digital tracks. It takes time but the results worth it. You can even put an analog compressor or mixer in between for more coloration. I have also used a Allen and Heath analog mixer and a FMR RNLA7239 amplifier for more drastic results! 😁
This is how i've been doing it for over 20 years, in the early days of VST's they sounded quite thin or harsh, so i bought a lot of (budget) processors like compressors and fx to give them more life. Still using that same gear (with a lot more ;)) to this day.
I used to produce most of my first Psytrance vinyl records for Cosmophilia label with an old Apple Laptop and Rebirth RB-338 on it running through EQ's and external compressor, perfect ;-)
Cool way to get the «hardware» sound in the plugins 😃😃😃👍👍👍 As always .. great video man !
Thanks man!
That sounded crazy good from plugin synths! Thank you for sharing.
Interesting. I must confess, whenever I hear about this kind of thing, I can't help remember the days when our 4-track cassette demos, bounced into noise floors that were three stories high, prevented us from any serious consideration from radio stations, record labels and even our own friends. It was not a good time for Indie and DIY musicians. Thankfully, the DAW changed everything. Now, it doesn't mean that 'old' and 'noisy' are bad and, as shown here, can legitemately become good artist choices. I love the idea of using old computers to run VSTs and plugging their outputs into analogue mixing consoles, just like pre-MIDI and pre-USB vintage synths. Heck, my Korg Wavestate is nothing more than a keyboard and a Raspberry Pi. Very nice. Thank you for making this video.
Using them in stand alone Modus with a little outside Love is a good way to recycle all the VSTs lost in my Computer Nirvana.
Thinking outside the Box as always , thanks for that inspiration.
Cheers!
I hear a warm, more fuller sound. Great touch.
Nice. I usually bounce it all down in Cubase. Then send what I need to send out to various hardware and bring them back in via line signals. It gives me the option to use various hardware chains for different sounds (cleaner like Avalon for strings and a Tube DI for Moog like sounds). This also utilizes my analog to digital Apogee converters. Almost like re-amping, one can send to guitar pedals like this and to guitar amps as well (as long as the impedance is right).
Yes, that's another way of doing it. I do that too occasionally. Cheers
Nice demonstration! Very cool hybrid setup.
I'm happy to see/hear that I'm not the only one that does this. Thanks for sharing
Great video espen. My first vst/plug in was the rebirth 338 back in 1996. I have an original tr909 but haven’t used it again since getting the rebirth 338 software.
Thanks! Had the TR-909 once myself.
Dont mean to be a dick but are you def?? An infant could tell the difference.
Rebirth was great for the day but cant hold a candle to a real 909 or 303 or 808.
I mean yeah today there are some superb clones, but rebirth 338? really?
Using a vintage hardware synth as a controller for VSTs satisfies both the need for amazing sound / capability of the VSTs and the (sometimes needed) emotional connection to a 'real instrument'. I like your setup a lot!
Very true.
I miss using my DX7 as a controller as I really liked the keys.
@@pawnotdaw4559 I am using an SY77 which I believe has the same keybed, and like it a lot.
This is a nice way to do it. I've been using my Prophet-600 as both VST player and standalone synth (updated to the newest v2022 firmware, easily the best it's ever sounded). Having the first-ever consumer MIDI synth from 1982 controlling 2024 VST instruments is quite fun!
@@sonic2000gr cool. I sold most of my synths and now use a Moog One as controller for everything. Feels nice and all the knobs control the vsts.
Totally! Plugs deserve more treatment and get into the chains like any other hw sources. That's why they are called plugins. Especially Arturia, I'm with it from V2. Also I run plugins into Model D or ARP2600. Though I have zero hw "pedals" there is no limit the other way around as well. Running hw synth thru guitar centric sw processor is cool too! Cheers!
Cheers!
Wicked sounds as always!
I had previously figured this out a few years ago! Using Linux, along with Ardour as the main DAW and running a hardware mixer with a separate laptop running Ableton Live, FL Studio, etc... It really gives the sound more presence this way imo
Using a vintage synth to MIDI control a VST on a modern laptop running through various hardware to be finally recorded onto an older computer to produce 80's inspired music. I wonder how many eras are touched on in there 🙂
I didn't think about it like that, but now you mention it, it sounds cool. :P
i have played a wurlitzer vst trough some nice monitors, mic''d them with some vintage microphones and then recorded the thing - wow - that was just what it needed to get of that clean sound - so usefull if you record "" analog"" on two alesis HD24
I've been trying to use the Line 6 Helix to treat VSTs as its so powerful, its got emulations of a lot of classic fx and processing. I've also got a Warm Audio Tone Beast and Neve 1073 I can use.
Now I have an excuse to keep my old modded thinkpad around. 😊
It's interesting to see what different approaches there are for the home studio. As I work exclusively with plugins, I basically take exactly the opposite approach and try to avoid fully rendered audio tracks for as long as possible so that I have total recall until the end and can still re-adjust all the parameters of the instruments. So far, I've even mastered in the same project, but I'm actually considering rendering all tracks into a new project for that in future.
Unless I'm working for a client I don't want the option of total recall until the end. I find that thought limits my inspiration in the creative process. I commit as many tracks as possible during recording. Printed wet with effects and everything. To me that's liberation. And it's the 80s way. ;.)
thanks for sharing, uad software preamps will have to do for someone like me who isn't motivated enough to use hardware fx and processing but yeah you make those softsynths sound amazing 😁
Really cool set up!
Cheers!
I do the same if im gonna use a vst. Excellent hybrid solutions. Cheers S🖋!
I was just thinking of doing something like this! Thank you! 😎
Cheers!
I agree with the lack of sound of many VSTs, but I use the Kazrog True Iron for that. I think it beautifully compliments the other software. I have a MIDI bounce channel strip that I use for enhancing the plugin sounds when turning them into audio in Logic.
I often mic vst’s monitor or amp,then bring them back in (time corrected) . This certainly gets rid of a lot of the harshness.
Brilliant Mr. Kraft!
And here I was all this time thinking you only used hardware synth !!!!!!!
and your right about some software synths, they are so good now.
I use a lot more plugins than hardware. ;-)
@@EspenKraft My best friend does, I've got a few but I just cant get to grips with them.
Like any new tool one must practice.
This is the pose I strike when my wife asks for a bite of my pizza: 6:28. I really like your song Computer Love. Looking forward to the whole album. Cheers.
The right pose is important, especially when pizza is involved. :P Cheers man
@@EspenKraft 😑🍕
Interesting concept! Inspiration!!!
I've wanted to do this for ages but couldn't be bothered. Maybe I should give it a go...
I recently almost bought an old Hammond organ cabinet to play and record Native instruments B4 organ through. Space constraints and common sense stopped me. :)
The same constraints prevents me from bringing home a Yamaha D-85 too. ;-)
Great video! Any chance we can see more of that Emulator in the background in a future video? ❤️
I discovered Asteroid Killer via Espen. You should do a duet. Both great channels.
Thanks! Hopefully, once it's been fixed.
@@EspenKraft Looking forward to that! 🙌
Computer Love sounds awesome. I like to run the mix through a RNC1773, nice and small on the desktop.
I see, it does sound good and I like the immediacy of hardware
Awesome. Wish I could play like that.
To be honest I don't like the production of your singing voice. It seems to me that there is a lack of surplus production on it (it lacks thickness for example IMO). But it may be an artistic choice and I know that it is something that is hard to do yourself without an engineer.
On the other hand, I like your love of sounds and the strength you put into searching for them.
Great recordning chain 🙂
My computer has two separate audio interfaces so I just slave Fl Studio or Reason and record them from program to program.. Get the program Loop-be and now you have virtual midi cables from program to program and daw to daw and you can start and stop them just like hardware... thank me later. But I run a complete hybrid setup. You can also get a vst host program and now all of your plugins can become standalone and you can skip the host(Fl studio or Reason) and go straight to the daw and slave your standalone vst's like hardware and come back and use them setup and ready to go everytime. Especially if you have studio 1, the rabbit hole gets very deep.
2:35 Nice rendition of a Final Counting of a kind of Down in an alternate universe........ What could have been... What could have... been...
It should have been recorded with Whitney Houston as a ballad.
Nice midi keyboard
Can you please mention the outboard eq and pre amp you are using here?.
🍻 ❤😊
EQ mentioned numerous times in comments already. Converters are Audient ID22.
@EspenKraft cheers, i did read through a heap of comments, Easier if you mentioned the EQ in your description.
thanks for the reply .
Much appreciated.
I could have, but by not mentioning it I increase the number of comments and that itself drives the algorithm to suggest the video to more people. ;-) Cheers
@EspenKraft I thought that might be the case...ime ADHD so a little frustrating , but I thought it was deliberate..nice !!
Great video by the way. Are you coming back into your DAW from the hardware?
Yes. Cheers
How I roll and have for years, nice one.. (about to get an M4 which will purely act as a synth with multiple outs from the Focusrite 18i20
What about your Preamp/EQ Kombination you Used in this Video - what brand is it? The white Rackmodul behind you 😉
Check earlier comments and replies by me. I link to my demo/review video of it. It's a Z&H Design HVC250.
What synth and preset did you use on your song " settle the score ", which is a string pad sound ? Sound like a classic sound , that s why i talk about preset .
The string synth sound on "Settle the Score" is done with the Korg DW-8000. It's a patch I've made.
@@EspenKraft Nice creation ! It Sounds Classic !
Thanks.
@@EspenKraft Well, it's funny, in fact I had already "clicked" on your presets on the Korg, I remember it now. And yet it's been a while
This is a good sign for me: it is confirmed ! I'll have to buy this... ;)
I also do the something like that, cause i totally love the synth keyboard of the dx7 FD-II, but when i use the yamaha as a master keyboard to drive a vst, if i'm not wrong it send only key velocity from 0 to 99, it can't send a full message because of internal limit...correct me if i'm wrong
Nope, only the first DX7 (mk1) has that bug. All other models fixed that.
@EspenKraft oh wow, thank you so much Espen!
Thanks. Would’ve been nice with a before/after comparison.
It's really not about that. It's not "better" or "worse". It's a workflow that I like to use to sculpt the sounds I record. Cheers
Didn't you have an Arturia keyboard controller in the past? Though from a side angle, the keys on the DX7 look longer. It's funny, though, that you use a 40 year old synth to control a piece of software.
I'll give this workflow a bit of thought. It's interesting.
Yes, but I got rid of it. Didn't like the key bed very much. The DX7 has really nice keys. And sounds of course. ;-)
I thought the DX 7 only puts out a max 100 for midi velocity. Is this an issue for using it as a controller?
Not ideal, but you can rescale the input range on the DAW.
I tweak the velocity of my MIDI keyboards on Logic so the response feels more consistent between them.
Yes, the old mk1 did. This is the DX7s from 1987. No such thing there.
Separate computer that runs DAW and recording? Then laptop/s become like synths
Exactly what I'm showing here yes. ;-)
Could you do a video where you A/B the plugin with/without the routing please?
No plans to do that. This is not a question of "better" or "worse" really. How a sound sounds on itself is not important. All the sounds will be mixed together with others and that determines how they will be sculpted in the first place. Any A/B comparison is useless.
Do you know a Tape machine emulation plugin that can reduce the pitch and tempo (in sync) ?
I have no idea, the thought makes no sense to me really.
Try a 8/12/16 bit sampler.
Hi Espen, so inspiring, I have a bunch of old computers, maybe I should get a decent mixer. What do you mean by 'smeary sound'?
I sometimes feel midi plugin synths tend to lack some definition when everything is exported/rendered out as one stereo mix at the end. This way I can add some texture because they've gone through the analog eq and whatnot before being recorded.
@@EspenKraft I have to try this, but I don't have a mixer :-( I neeeeed mooooore geeeeaaar
Maybe simply try DA > AD conversation, simple record your output straigt back. Use cheap 7-10m cables, for more damping / analogue feeling.
I like to run the cables around the house at least one time to get some earth radiation infused onto the tracks.
Can you recommend a new controller that has similarly feeling keybed to the DX7? Whatever I tried feels toyish or spongy.
Nothing made today will give you that same feel.
Can you recommend any other techniques for avoiding that "smeary sound" (good term) you get inside the daw without all of the hardware?
Espen you need to re-record 'the weekend' with Analogue Gear it's your true PSB tribute. Or alternatively give the acapella to your fans!
I like it as it is. ;-) Did it live last year with a different setup.
Surely you can dial in good enough eq via the DAW plugins?
It's not a question of "good" or "bad". It's a workflow I like to use to sculpt the sound of plugin synths before recording them. When I make my own music I have the time to do it like this.
i would love to know the tech side of doing that how would i go about doing this say in reason studio 12 please ?
If Reason is your DAW then you record into that. The rest (what comes before) is exactly what I show in this video.
@@EspenKraft the bit i am struggling with is how do you get those vst in the daw back in to the same
computer daw ?
I don't. That's not what I show here. The computer running the VST plugins is just that, running the soft synths I want to PLAY. I play them, and the output of that computer is taken through various pieces of gear before I record them on another DAW in another computer. The last part I don't show here at all.
Hey Espen what Parametric EQ rack unit is that out of curiosity? Love the vids.
Thanks! Check it out in my video here: ua-cam.com/video/k2rqaRKi45A/v-deo.html
No Alpha Juno in your studio? 😮 That's a first!
It's in storage. I pull it out when I need it. Not often anymore.
How are you dealing with latency when playing virtual instruments from your laptop(s)? Are you able to get a low enough latency to make playing live feel good?
That's not a problem when I record like shown in this video where I only have one instrument in the memory. I get the latency down to around 2 ms or so on the Mac M1.
Hi Espen, I also do this, but usually just for my outboard effects (Strymon El Capitan, Lexicon multi-FX, and Eventide H9). But maybe I need to look for an old rack mount EQ unit to “soften” up some of the harshness of the digital VST sounds? Food for thought. As to the audio quality of today’s virtual instruments, you are spot on. For starters, what are the alternatives to using the Arturia Synclavier, Fairlight CMI and CS80 VSTs? Buying the real hardware versions? Hardly. Plus, Hans Zimmer won the Oscar for the soundtrack to Dune. The main synthesizer he used was the Zebra 2 VST by U-he. In fact, if you buy this VST you get the Zebra HZ with all his sounds. I suppose Hans doesn’t realize how “crap” these virtual instruments sound either? 😄
I highly recommend the Elysia xfilter. It's flexible, sounds great and lacks all the vintage nonsens.
Correct. Any working producer and composer knows to use the right tools for a job. If they didn't they wouldn't make a living from doing music. Only hobbyists think otherwise. ;-)
@@EspenKraft so what would be your standard EQ move then? Soften the highs and boost the mids? Something that could be done with a eq plzgin after recording? I would like to hear an A/B comparison whether it really makes that muvh of a difference...
This isn't about "better" or "worse", it's about a way of doing it basically. It's not something one has to do. I just like to record my soft synths this way many times.
why don't use a Hvc250 vst?
I like to use some hardware.
Hi Espen I'm sorry I if this very basic, but i have VST i wish i could have some of my fav preset instantly available as playback samples (eg such from a xv5080). can you maybe demo how to sample a synth/keyboard VST instrument (not single sample like drum hits) but best way to do it chromatically for use in hardware. Thanks
You should use SampleRobot for this. It's made for things like that. I use it myself and I have a video about it here already. Check that out. I sample hardware synths in my video, but you can do it directly inside a VST as well. Check out their website for more info. Cheers
There's the old Cubase still going strong!
Cubase 11 isn't that old, it's from 2021-22 or so.
@@EspenKraft Oh sorry Espen I thought it was an older one. Didn't you use to use an old one in your old videos? I can't remember now!
I like Cubase 5 on the mac on OS 9 :)
I have many computers with different daws and sequencing programs. My main daw runs Nuendo 4 though and that's what I usually show and use in my videos. Not in this one though. This is a pretty new Mac M1 with Cubase 11 pro.
Hey Espen, which usb adapter do you use for your MacBook?
It's a Satechi MacBook Air M1 Slim Pro Docking (space gray).
Do you have synths without midi?
Not any more.
what smeary sound from exporting?
I like to record my loops onto a reel to reel tape machine then duplicate multiple copies and splice them together and rework all my tracks into a 16 track from 1971 just to make it really complicated.
Sarcasm can be a great thing, or not so much.
@@EspenKraftlove that you do this. I had years in a room full of machines and wire and I love my laptop that can do way more than 20k worth of gear in the early 90's.😊
What is the name of the first VST you refer to in the video? Would love to see it.
I use Arturias V-collection in all the examples.
@EspenKraft You talk about the first ever VST on the old computer. This is what I am referring to. Thanks for the video. It is educational.
Ah, yes... that's the NEON from Steinberg. And the VB-1. I did a video about them a while back. I go through my old VST5 rig. It's the PC you can see on the left behind me in the intro of this video.
@@EspenKraft Super Thanks!
Wow what eq was that??
It's a nice one. ;-) Check out my video review of it here: ua-cam.com/video/k2rqaRKi45A/v-deo.html
What if analog synths just try to emulate digital VSTs?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess you can't sample poly portamento patches like in the JD-800, for instance?
Admittedly, there aren't many.
For most bread-and-butter work that's not essential.
You have a grouse set-up, workflow, and approach.
But I CAN record a performance in real time, after I've set up the sound the way I want it. This is something I do a lot.
Good point.
I prefer to use real hardware but sometimes I output fake synths out of my computer inside a DI and micro preamp , and the sound is better
I dig your t shirt.
Cheers!
Do you still use the ssl 6?
I do.
You could virtualize your old computers, you know that? There is no point in holding to old PC/Mac hardware.
Oh, but there is.
Your Cubase version is also from the 80's, isn't it? 🙂
That is Nuendo as seen in the window title.
@@wackerburg So 80's Nuendo....
Of course not. There was no DAW in the 80s
@@EspenKraft There was a fine grain of irony in my comment ;-)
Do you sync the arp in the separate softsynth to the daw into which you record it into?
Yes, if I need to sync up an arp I'd run MIDI clock out of the DAW I'm recording into, into the external computer running the soft synth. That happens.
Can't beat old FM7 and REFX Vanguard. If you think new versions sounds the same, well you are wrong
Don’t you increase the total latency of the system?
Just out of curiosity. 🙂
What's recorded in the DAW is recorded like any hardware synth. The only added latency might be what's going out of the first computer, but the latency there is about 2ms so of no consequence.
when i use Synth1 or various FX Ableton won't export properly- i just record everything to my Zoom H4n. (need new laptop!)
try analog summing with dangerous hardware devices
no decent D/A needed ? you just go out of the headphone jack of the macbook ?
I'm running the Yamaha DM3 as the audio interface. No headphone output in play here. I say this in the video.
@@EspenKraft so if i ran 2 laptops as "synths" then each would need a separate audio interface.
@@EspenKraft oh yeah i got that the laptop went into the Yamaha mixer, i didnt hear/realise that it was a digital/usb connection ok makes sense thanks
@@Fallingoverbackwards well looks like Espen records them 'live' so not using MIDI to edit/quantise etc meaning he can layer different plugin synths after each other ?
Correct. This method is used to record my synth parts as audio. I always record my synths as audio. I almost never use MIDI plugins, except when I'm working for clients.
you re fb01 yamaha and kawai k3r owner great
Great vid.....same here. I generally run mine thru a piece like the SP404MK2 for Fx, Elektron compression, and then some sort of tube for warmth. INB4 digital cry babies attack you...
The thing about vst......u cannot use it externally..you have to record it with the same computer.......u can hear the computers clock ticking like an old computer loading a game......listen and you should be able to hear it faintly,,,,,put the amp on full and line out from the computer and you will hear computer jargon
What interface are you using? You should not be getting computer/motherboard sounds on any of your outs. That usually happens with the analog outs of onboard sound cards.
Not true at all.
If your using sounds that are that digital sounding why bother taking them into the analog domain. They sound terrible anyway. Dx7? The worst sounding synth of all time. Thank god for analog.
Take another chance with the Korg Opsix FM synth.
You will change your idea on the FM..😏😏
Oh my… I love both FM and analogue synths. What’s wrong with me?
@carstenaltena you wrote that DX7 FM synth is the worst sounding synth of all time.
@@Sandelec-gm2cl you may have the wrong guy.
Maybe in your hands it is.