Yet another exceptional video Boyd.....On your point of being careful with the language we use, a good amount of us here in Ireland have stopped using the phrase "hip snap" as it doesn't tell the student the whole story of the lower body movements, instead we are focusing on knee drive or knee lift....the progressive stages are pretty much how i have been basing pool sessions so its very reassuring that someone of your experience does the same!!!
Yes! My roll became much more successful after i heard the term "knee drive". A fellow paddler gave me the tip on river, and i had never heard it from an instructor or in instructional videos before. I believe that was the game changer for me.
I teach the Greenland rolling style (back sweep, butterfly, reverse sweep, storm roll, etc). For students not getting the roll the first time i give them a homework, to visualise the roll 10 times before going a sleep and 10 times after waking up. This reinforces the muscle memory and the next rolling session will be much easier. Otherwise I use much of the same techniques as you do. Good video.
@@JonasAlexanderson Total time for this method is usually about 5-10 minutes of rolling instruction for success. The problem I often run into is that 9 times out of 10, a student who isn’t successfully rolling yet isn’t going to visualize it correctly so the visualization exercise would reinforce bad habits over just reinforcing feel. That said, careful and correct visualization definitely helps and I highly recommend it for other things. I just don’t share your recommendation for it in this instance. Thanks for watching 🤙🏻
@@CleanLineKayaking we do teach different type of rolling. But I often have people at 60+ years (oldest has ben 78 yo) and the lay back roll is slower, and more gentle for their bodies. For a young person it takes 20 minutes for them to learn, an older person can be two or three sessions. For the later, the visualization method works very well.
Great video, there's so much to unpack! I'm sure I'll be watching this video many times in the next few weeks while starting to teach. Thanks for sharing! :)
I'm so glad you mentioned about the rigid forward setup that a lot of people do. I've been trying to get a few people out of that habit, but it still persists.
Great video! Loving the regular uploads!! Taught myself how to roll thanks to your first rollin video. I'm heading to Montgomery Whitewater or the first time this saturday and Sunday. I got a rolling session booked.
Hey, great video! Thanks a lot. What do you think about coming up more over the stern, as EJ is teaching it? I find this for many people a lot easier to start with and as they progress, they need it less and less. But some people argue it’s bad habit.
Hey Boyd. I’m a new subscriber and really enjoy your videos. I have a disabled friend/student who has been trying to learn to roll. She is actually a great paddler upright but has limited control of her legs and hips so would have to rely on upper body strength. Could you advise on how we can adapt something?
Welcome and thanks! I have a friend that's a paraplegic kayaker; I'll ask him. I know Jackson Kayak made him some special outfitting for better boat control and he rolled fine... there's a method of hand rolling that works well where you cross your arms over the cockpit and roll with the top arm while pulling the cockpit rim with the bottom arm- it would likely work with your friend and is described in the hand rolling video. I'll reach out to my friend and see if I can get some info from him 🤙
I have an Antix 2, which I roll pretty well in most situations. I also have a SuperNova, which I’ve found quite challenging to roll. I’m guessing the flatter hull and high cockpit has something to do with the difference, notwithstanding my less than perfect technique. Otherwise, it’s a pretty awesome boat.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily the flatter hull itself as much as it is the higher sidewalls (and higher cockpit), boxy rail shape, and wider deck that often come with the flatter hull that makes a boat harder to roll.… but you’d definitely feel a difference with those two. I can no hands roll a rockstar V for example, but not the Antix 2.0… I can hand roll and Antix or Flow, but barely hand roll a Z3. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
@@CleanLineKayakingInteresting that you have the most challenging time in the Z3. I know you are talking hand rolls here which is a whole other level. That’s the only boat I’ve ever been in, except for one time at a roll session with an ACA instructor. My primary motivation was a stable boat I could transition to from an IK without feeling like a total newbie (still felt like a newbie, lol). It took a long time to put it altogether to finally get my first few rolls. Then, when I took the class they put me in a Code which has a bit more of a rounded side wall. I could flip myself up considerably easier in that one and sometimes nearly went all the way around almost upside down again. Ever since that class though the Z3 has been easy for me to roll, at least in calm water. I’m hoping that means I’ve learned in a more challenging boat as far a rolls go and when I decide to try something else it’ll be equal to or easier than my current boat.
@@chrispaine2265 once you learn how to roll well, you can roll anything. Stoked you’ve enjoyed your progression and you’re feeling solid. Some are still definitely easier than others. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
I’m only a student and found this extra guidance super useful, even having watched your other content and hundreds of other tutorials. I have a question about variables. Should you limit them when learning to role? Examples Do you recommend starting off wearing your helmet / pfd in the pool? Or building up? What do you recommend for boat type? Stick with one? I had a mare of a session last week when I tried my friends playboat but also changed my kit, so instantly I’m drawn to thinking about eliminating the variables that might be causing this and getting back to basics. Thank you for always doing great content.
Welcome to kayaking! Stoked you're getting into it! I always recommend you learn in your own boat when you can, whatever design you plan to use, but some boats are certainly easier to roll than others. As far as gear goes, it's actually a lot easier, for me at least, to teach a student who isn't wearing gear. Gear is bulky and when someone is back in your arms, it can be annoying... there's not a lot of benefit to learning in gear, in my opinion, so I don't usually feel like it's worth it, but it's also fine. When I teach someone who is self conscious about their body or sensitive about physical contact though, it helps if they wear their PFD. As far as rolling in your gear vs out of your gear, you won't notice a lot of difference if you have a good roll. I would limit variables like changing boats and paddles and instructors while you're learning. Unless an instructor is highly experienced, most don't do too well adapting to previously learned instruction from a different instructor.
@@CleanLineKayaking I'm a beginner kayaker and have an easier time rolling without the gear. I feel when I'm wearing my PFD I have a harder time diving under the boat to get the paddle to surface / get in my proper setup. That's why I was planning on taking my gear with me to my next rolling training session, to get a better understanding of how to get it as fast and consistent as I do without my gear.
Yet another exceptional video Boyd.....On your point of being careful with the language we use, a good amount of us here in Ireland have stopped using the phrase "hip snap" as it doesn't tell the student the whole story of the lower body movements, instead we are focusing on knee drive or knee lift....the progressive stages are pretty much how i have been basing pool sessions so its very reassuring that someone of your experience does the same!!!
I think it’s important for all of us to remember those language changes and perspectives. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
Yes! My roll became much more successful after i heard the term "knee drive".
A fellow paddler gave me the tip on river, and i had never heard it from an instructor or in instructional videos before.
I believe that was the game changer for me.
This is a fantastic "emotional safety pitch"... applies to most of evrything...even teaching tango
Good job. Hand paddles can help make the hip snap stronger and discourage using the paddle to "lever' up.
I teach the Greenland rolling style (back sweep, butterfly, reverse sweep, storm roll, etc). For students not getting the roll the first time i give them a homework, to visualise the roll 10 times before going a sleep and 10 times after waking up. This reinforces the muscle memory and the next rolling session will be much easier.
Otherwise I use much of the same techniques as you do. Good video.
@@JonasAlexanderson Total time for this method is usually about 5-10 minutes of rolling instruction for success. The problem I often run into is that 9 times out of 10, a student who isn’t successfully rolling yet isn’t going to visualize it correctly so the visualization exercise would reinforce bad habits over just reinforcing feel. That said, careful and correct visualization definitely helps and I highly recommend it for other things. I just don’t share your recommendation for it in this instance. Thanks for watching 🤙🏻
@@CleanLineKayaking we do teach different type of rolling. But I often have people at 60+ years (oldest has ben 78 yo) and the lay back roll is slower, and more gentle for their bodies. For a young person it takes 20 minutes for them to learn, an older person can be two or three sessions. For the later, the visualization method works very well.
Lots of great info. I definitely have some new ideas to bring to the next rolling clinics I teach.
Great video, there's so much to unpack! I'm sure I'll be watching this video many times in the next few weeks while starting to teach. Thanks for sharing! :)
Im learning, i have some roll, good hip snap but head comes up, tension. Thus video should be some help this piil session 😊
I'm so glad you mentioned about the rigid forward setup that a lot of people do. I've been trying to get a few people out of that habit, but it still persists.
people really think it’s safer, but rolling faster and more reliably is safer than a forward tuck could ever be. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
This is a superb resource. Thank you!
thanks man! Thanks to you too for putting out solid content. It's so great to see other paddlers that want to give back.
Really excellent video. And thank you for subtitles
you’re welcome! 🤙🏻 Thanks for watching!
Great video! Loving the regular uploads!! Taught myself how to roll thanks to your first rollin video. I'm heading to Montgomery Whitewater or the first time this saturday and Sunday. I got a rolling session booked.
nice! I’m stoked it helped!
I needed this, starting a club and have to teach myself and 3 other people how to teach someone to roll... Not as easy as i thought.
That is exactly why I made this video. Ask away if you end up having other questions & thanks for watching! 🤙
Hey, great video! Thanks a lot. What do you think about coming up more over the stern, as EJ is teaching it? I find this for many people a lot easier to start with and as they progress, they need it less and less. But some people argue it’s bad habit.
Very well put, I learned a lot!
Thanks man! Stoked to finally get some of these done! 🤙🏻
excellent video . . .
Thanks for watching! 🤙
Hey Boyd. I’m a new subscriber and really enjoy your videos. I have a disabled friend/student who has been trying to learn to roll. She is actually a great paddler upright but has limited control of her legs and hips so would have to rely on upper body strength. Could you advise on how we can adapt something?
Welcome and thanks! I have a friend that's a paraplegic kayaker; I'll ask him. I know Jackson Kayak made him some special outfitting for better boat control and he rolled fine... there's a method of hand rolling that works well where you cross your arms over the cockpit and roll with the top arm while pulling the cockpit rim with the bottom arm- it would likely work with your friend and is described in the hand rolling video. I'll reach out to my friend and see if I can get some info from him 🤙
If all instructors followed this it would work every time in 15 minutes. Guaranteed
It’s a lengthy video, but fast and consistent for teaching. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
How do you go about teaching the offside roll?
@@ctumbles74 the exact same
way, just on the other side. It’s fast, efficient, and consistent.
I have an Antix 2, which I roll pretty well in most situations. I also have a SuperNova, which I’ve found quite challenging to roll. I’m guessing the flatter hull and high cockpit has something to do with the difference, notwithstanding my less than perfect technique. Otherwise, it’s a pretty awesome boat.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily the flatter hull itself as much as it is the higher sidewalls (and higher cockpit), boxy rail shape, and wider deck that often come with the flatter hull that makes a boat harder to roll.… but you’d definitely feel a difference with those two. I can no hands roll a rockstar V for example, but not the Antix 2.0… I can hand roll and Antix or Flow, but barely hand roll a Z3. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
@@CleanLineKayakingInteresting that you have the most challenging time in the Z3. I know you are talking hand rolls here which is a whole other level. That’s the only boat I’ve ever been in, except for one time at a roll session with an ACA instructor. My primary motivation was a stable boat I could transition to from an IK without feeling like a total newbie (still felt like a newbie, lol). It took a long time to put it altogether to finally get my first few rolls. Then, when I took the class they put me in a Code which has a bit more of a rounded side wall. I could flip myself up considerably easier in that one and sometimes nearly went all the way around almost upside down again. Ever since that class though the Z3 has been easy for me to roll, at least in calm water. I’m hoping that means I’ve learned in a more challenging boat as far a rolls go and when I decide to try something else it’ll be equal to or easier than my current boat.
@@chrispaine2265 once you learn how to roll well, you can roll anything. Stoked you’ve enjoyed your progression and you’re feeling solid. Some are still definitely easier than others. Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
any tips on how to keep from getting dizzy or kind of seasick while doing it ?
I’m only a student and found this extra guidance super useful, even having watched your other content and hundreds of other tutorials.
I have a question about variables. Should you limit them when learning to role?
Examples
Do you recommend starting off wearing your helmet / pfd in the pool? Or building up?
What do you recommend for boat type? Stick with one?
I had a mare of a session last week when I tried my friends playboat but also changed my kit, so instantly I’m drawn to thinking about eliminating the variables that might be causing this and getting back to basics.
Thank you for always doing great content.
Welcome to kayaking! Stoked you're getting into it!
I always recommend you learn in your own boat when you can, whatever design you plan to use, but some boats are certainly easier to roll than others. As far as gear goes, it's actually a lot easier, for me at least, to teach a student who isn't wearing gear. Gear is bulky and when someone is back in your arms, it can be annoying... there's not a lot of benefit to learning in gear, in my opinion, so I don't usually feel like it's worth it, but it's also fine. When I teach someone who is self conscious about their body or sensitive about physical contact though, it helps if they wear their PFD. As far as rolling in your gear vs out of your gear, you won't notice a lot of difference if you have a good roll. I would limit variables like changing boats and paddles and instructors while you're learning. Unless an instructor is highly experienced, most don't do too well adapting to previously learned instruction from a different instructor.
@@CleanLineKayaking thank you kindly for the extra info.
@@comic8124 no worries! Thanks again for watching 🤙
@@CleanLineKayaking I'm a beginner kayaker and have an easier time rolling without the gear. I feel when I'm wearing my PFD I have a harder time diving under the boat to get the paddle to surface / get in my proper setup. That's why I was planning on taking my gear with me to my next rolling training session, to get a better understanding of how to get it as fast and consistent as I do without my gear.
I always wear a shirt! And a slalom BA to protect my chest. I've been hit a few times in the chest by boats at pool sessions, it hurts!
I usually do too… I forgot it that night 🙈
@SendSchool 🤣🤣🤣
Great tips thank you!
How about the fact some People cant reach the top of the surface with their paddle?