Thanks for the pointer to Nick's editor -- it was a big help setting up my new 360. I haven't had thumb issues yet, but I've been consciously avoiding the four thumb keys on each side that I can only barely reach.
thank you for making revisit, i like that they actually heard you. Question: why turning on/off button so important, doesn't you turn it on once and forget for the months?
this is my first programmable board , the wired with pinks, five months in. love the pinks and some longer connecting USB Cs and 90 degree angle connectors reduce the footprint beautifully. I asked the reseller very specifically about the feel of the thumb cluster before buying - I wanted a smooth double-press option to match steno thumb presses at that point , and I figured there's enough board programmability to negate or neutralize the impact of hitting ctrl x instead of alt x , et cetera , blanking one out of the other or making both codes apply . it's unquestionably angled and spaced to keep those presses separate and distinct , and I think I could handle a left to right slide down on both sides without that resistance , and on the left side, I've adapted to have the thumb favouring the middle position over these months , functions associated to the left thumb key on A-S-D-F, functions associated to the middle thumb key to QWERT , the whole hand engaged in the motion that decides the thumb key . it feels more like piano chording and hand technique in all the right ways. can't wait to apply low profiles and see how that works, thanks so much for showing that!
Great stuff! I just spent all weekend lubing/filming my switches and desoldering/soldering my advantage 360 (it sucked).. I put non static PE foam pads underneath the switches as well for a marbly sound, so I had to take it apart completely. I bought the white case separately and installed yesterday before seeing your video today. I got some blank white DSA profile keycaps for the home row as well to match the white case. Something to note: the white case has a gloss finish which I find to be sticky and makes my palms sweat. I'd recommend lightly sanding the gloss off and spraying it with a matte finish if this bothers you.
I had aches in my fingers for the first 3 months of Glove 80. What solved it was shortening the typing sessions between the Glove80 and a standard keyboard. Overtime, I increased the period between each session and I've had no aches whether I'm on a standard or Glove 80 keyboard.
This couldn't have come at a better time. I am experimenting with it right now (got the pinks because I hate the gateron browns) I am having this EXACT same issue with my thumb, and I have been trying to figure out why. This is a big help and I think I am doing the exact same thing with how I click the space button. I now need to try and retrain the way I type on them lol.
Sounds like you might be getting a bit of texters thumb when using the thumb clusters? Personally, I've never found a thumb cluster I've liked more than the Glove80. I recently got a Cyboard Imprint and I find the lower row of thumb keys uncomfortable to reach compared to the Glove80 for the same reason you said, I have to curl my thumb to reach them.
I didn't experience any issues with thumb cluster, most likely because I always use palm pads. To be honest, I can't understand why some people claim that they feel uncomfortable using palm pads. In my opinion, it's quite inconvenient and even critical not to use them. This may be due to the fact that I previously used a keyboard with a negative tilt and am sensitive to curved wrist positions.
I got the pro version a month ago or even less so imagine how happy i am now... I also have a dygma defy, and. overall I prefer it over the 360 as a package, but the keywells are great. I also have issues with the thumb cluster, I prefer the defy one no question, on the 360 I can only use the two big thumb keys on each side. This made me learn homerow mods however and that's the best of both worlds. I guess my dream board would be if dygma made a keyboard with a keywell. I never had an issue with the bluetooth though, I must say.
I can 100% see the appeal of Kinesis keyboards. Not jsut this one but the original advantage. As a shape and concept, it's very very tempting. But I just can't get over not having QMK firmware and hot swap switches in 2024. These feel like table stakes for high end keyboards. Or to put it more blunty - once ZSA figures out how to do keywells, who would go for a Kinesis? PS: please review those boardwalk orthos!
Thanks for your reviews. I just use them connected with cable at all times like a non-pro version. Seems to be working well so far. I wonder if the battery would be impacted in the long run.
the documentation says that you should always toggle the left part first, then toggle the right part on after, otherwise the right part LEDs will be flashing red
i've found that using the v3.0 firmware on my advantage, waiting till the backlights on the left turn on before turning on the right one works petty well
Most split columnar stagger keyboards force your thumb into a specific position, while a split standard keyboard will allow you to just use the thumb wherever it falls naturally. I find typing on the UHK more comfortable than on the Model 100, part of that I think is that I do not need to care where the thumb is positioned, and it does not have to be in the same position all the time also -- thumb position also changes with the angle you use the keyboard btw. My impression is that thumb clusters are often overhyped and a standard space bar (split in the best case) has advantages which are mostly overlooked. I have ordered the Voyager and will see if/ how I come along with that compared to the UHK, which so far overall has been my best keyboard (hardware, software).
Very interesting. I had looked at the UHK but thought that the space bars looked too close to where, relatively, the index finger was 🤔 but interesting your experience seems to echo mine. I want to slap that space/return key with impunity!! 😀
Ha! Hi Dygdudes! Afraid I sold my kickstarter Defy on, so no longer an option. I suspect the thumb clusters still wouldn’t work for me. I think what I probably need is a thumb key on each side that’s wide, rather than tall. That’s something of a rarity with premium split boards.
In fact, I bet what would work would be a keycap that sits on both the large vertical key and the next one in to make a bigger hit area. Damn it. Got me thinking about a Defy again now!!!
@@benfrainuk I was gonna say... that's what the Defy might offer. You could make two thumbeys on the same side do the same thing. We'll email you in case you want to give ti a second chance! 🥰
@@benfrainuk Just posted a comment before reading this. Exactly. Thumb keys should be wide and you only want one main thumb key for that reason. Extra ones can be added, but not for important functions IMO.
You want to look for Gateron low profile switch key caps. For example here is an example from Keychron www.keychron.uk/products/low-profile-double-shot-pbt-keycap-set
Thanks for the pointer to Nick's editor -- it was a big help setting up my new 360. I haven't had thumb issues yet, but I've been consciously avoiding the four thumb keys on each side that I can only barely reach.
I've now watched a couple of your videos, they have been greatly informative. You have more than earned that subscription. Kudos!
thank you for making revisit, i like that they actually heard you. Question: why turning on/off button so important, doesn't you turn it on once and forget for the months?
this is my first programmable board , the wired with pinks, five months in. love the pinks and some longer connecting USB Cs and 90 degree angle connectors reduce the footprint beautifully. I asked the reseller very specifically about the feel of the thumb cluster before buying - I wanted a smooth double-press option to match steno thumb presses at that point , and I figured there's enough board programmability to negate or neutralize the impact of hitting ctrl x instead of alt x , et cetera , blanking one out of the other or making both codes apply . it's unquestionably angled and spaced to keep those presses separate and distinct , and I think I could handle a left to right slide down on both sides without that resistance , and on the left side, I've adapted to have the thumb favouring the middle position over these months , functions associated to the left thumb key on A-S-D-F, functions associated to the middle thumb key to QWERT , the whole hand engaged in the motion that decides the thumb key . it feels more like piano chording and hand technique in all the right ways. can't wait to apply low profiles and see how that works, thanks so much for showing that!
A keywell keyboard with hot-swappable switches would be a game changer.
I think a couple of places make hotswap dactyls - bastardkbs for example.
Never used one, just know it exists.
Love your videos 🤙🙏
Great stuff! I just spent all weekend lubing/filming my switches and desoldering/soldering my advantage 360 (it sucked).. I put non static PE foam pads underneath the switches as well for a marbly sound, so I had to take it apart completely. I bought the white case separately and installed yesterday before seeing your video today. I got some blank white DSA profile keycaps for the home row as well to match the white case. Something to note: the white case has a gloss finish which I find to be sticky and makes my palms sweat. I'd recommend lightly sanding the gloss off and spraying it with a matte finish if this bothers you.
@@erikmorgan7059 What switches are you using?
@@Xe054 I tested out several, with gateron black inks and oil kings being my favs. I ended up going with oil kings because black inks felt too heavy
I had aches in my fingers for the first 3 months of Glove 80. What solved it was shortening the typing sessions between the Glove80 and a standard keyboard. Overtime, I increased the period between each session and I've had no aches whether I'm on a standard or Glove 80 keyboard.
If Hank Schrader tells me a keyboard is good, I believe him.
This couldn't have come at a better time. I am experimenting with it right now (got the pinks because I hate the gateron browns) I am having this EXACT same issue with my thumb, and I have been trying to figure out why. This is a big help and I think I am doing the exact same thing with how I click the space button. I now need to try and retrain the way I type on them lol.
Been waiting for this one, pre-liked
Sounds like you might be getting a bit of texters thumb when using the thumb clusters? Personally, I've never found a thumb cluster I've liked more than the Glove80. I recently got a Cyboard Imprint and I find the lower row of thumb keys uncomfortable to reach compared to the Glove80 for the same reason you said, I have to curl my thumb to reach them.
I didn't experience any issues with thumb cluster, most likely because I always use palm pads. To be honest, I can't understand why some people claim that they feel uncomfortable using palm pads. In my opinion, it's quite inconvenient and even critical not to use them. This may be due to the fact that I previously used a keyboard with a negative tilt and am sensitive to curved wrist positions.
I got the pro version a month ago or even less so imagine how happy i am now...
I also have a dygma defy, and. overall I prefer it over the 360 as a package, but the keywells are great. I also have issues with the thumb cluster, I prefer the defy one no question, on the 360 I can only use the two big thumb keys on each side. This made me learn homerow mods however and that's the best of both worlds. I guess my dream board would be if dygma made a keyboard with a keywell. I never had an issue with the bluetooth though, I must say.
I can 100% see the appeal of Kinesis keyboards. Not jsut this one but the original advantage. As a shape and concept, it's very very tempting.
But I just can't get over not having QMK firmware and hot swap switches in 2024. These feel like table stakes for high end keyboards. Or to put it more blunty - once ZSA figures out how to do keywells, who would go for a Kinesis?
PS: please review those boardwalk orthos!
I hear you on the Boardwalks 😉
Buy usb hasu converter to get qmk
If ZSA figures out keywells it's game over IMO
Thanks for your reviews. I just use them connected with cable at all times like a non-pro version. Seems to be working well so far. I wonder if the battery would be impacted in the long run.
the documentation says that you should always toggle the left part first, then toggle the right part on after, otherwise the right part LEDs will be flashing red
Yep. Mentioned that in the video 👍
Theyre spray painted and not a different color plastic?! Yikes. That’s going to wear and discolor in months.
Some might call it “weathering”. But unless Kinesis went all-in on priming, painting, and clear-coating, I would expect flaking very quickly.
@@ivanheffner2587 Yes. Pretty lame for a “Pro” devices at that price level.
and they charge 50 bucks extra for it lol
NocFree Lite is a nice option for a split keyboard when traveling, but it doesn't have an ortho layout.
i've found that using the v3.0 firmware on my advantage, waiting till the backlights on the left turn on before turning on the right one works petty well
To get the v3.0 firmware version, do you just need to fork the kinesis GitHub repo (the same one used for setting keymaps) at a recent commit?
@@brendannolan2508 yep! Just fork the repo in the v3.0 branch is what I did
can you make a video on how to configure tab-dance and mouse keys in nick's config tool?
Most split columnar stagger keyboards force your thumb into a specific position, while a split standard keyboard will allow you to just use the thumb wherever it falls naturally. I find typing on the UHK more comfortable than on the Model 100, part of that I think is that I do not need to care where the thumb is positioned, and it does not have to be in the same position all the time also -- thumb position also changes with the angle you use the keyboard btw. My impression is that thumb clusters are often overhyped and a standard space bar (split in the best case) has advantages which are mostly overlooked. I have ordered the Voyager and will see if/ how I come along with that compared to the UHK, which so far overall has been my best keyboard (hardware, software).
Very interesting. I had looked at the UHK but thought that the space bars looked too close to where, relatively, the index finger was 🤔 but interesting your experience seems to echo mine. I want to slap that space/return key with impunity!! 😀
Why don't you give the Defy a second go? 😊 The thumbkeys are much closer to the natural resting position of your thumb.
Ha! Hi Dygdudes! Afraid I sold my kickstarter Defy on, so no longer an option.
I suspect the thumb clusters still wouldn’t work for me. I think what I probably need is a thumb key on each side that’s wide, rather than tall. That’s something of a rarity with premium split boards.
In fact, I bet what would work would be a keycap that sits on both the large vertical key and the next one in to make a bigger hit area.
Damn it. Got me thinking about a Defy again now!!!
@@benfrainuk I was gonna say... that's what the Defy might offer. You could make two thumbeys on the same side do the same thing. We'll email you in case you want to give ti a second chance! 🥰
@@benfrainuk Just posted a comment before reading this. Exactly. Thumb keys should be wide and you only want one main thumb key for that reason. Extra ones can be added, but not for important functions IMO.
Where exactly do you get the low profile thumb keys?
You want to look for Gateron low profile switch key caps. For example here is an example from Keychron www.keychron.uk/products/low-profile-double-shot-pbt-keycap-set
@@benfrainuk Thanks. I have them now and I think they make a huge difference for me.
what are the other keboards ?
The’normal’ ones? They are different cases using the Boardwalk or Promenade PCBs
@@benfrainuk yes, thx
its all cool but that switch sound is awful... eww brother ewww
Eye of the beholder. It’s now one of my favourite sounding/feeling boards 🤷♂️