Can you beat Factorio with only ONE CARGO WAGON?
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- Опубліковано 8 кві 2023
- Belts? I hardly knew her!
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Dosh: "I genuinely question if it's possible to make a base worse than this."
DocJade: Hold my beer
This base is bad don't get me wrong, but dosh is making his statement in regards to the sheer inefficiency of the processing power required. In that regard this base on a per-item produced level is hypothetically the most efficient base possible.
That being said in regards to the base that makes dosh question how bad bases can be, a similar concept could have been applied to this base by having the inserters subtract add and subtract what they grab from a total stored in the memory cell that can deactivate stations by comparing against a universal cell, rather than the train sending its contents to a unique cell for each station.
IE: if total number of items in the wagon (which should match the contents of the cell barring errors in setting something up) exceeds a given amount for N production cycles, and the amount of items the given station of assemblers makes is below its limit, then enable the station.
his worst base was deffo the sushi one
I want to see Dosh and DocJade work on a base together on a stupid premise.
@@Volvary The most ambitious crossover of our time.
@@Volvary they can only transport material via inserter
After thinking about it a bit more, I could have totally finished the run without expanding the train's capacity... lol
SHAME ON YOUR COW
Well hindsight is 20/20
just do it again :)
Care to explain how? I only see duplicate stacks for iron and copper plate. You could instead have thrown in more loops to iron and copper smelting at several points throughout the tape.
Also, your miners could have direct inserted ores into smelters, but that seems to go against the spirit of the challenge. Then again, it's exactly what you did in the beginning.
And there is one barrel type (probably crude oil) that you carry 2 stacks of. The one thing I wondered throughout the video was why you didn't build your oil processing adjacent to the oil patch and skipped barreling fluids? Or at least skipped barreling raw oil?
Would those 3 things have been the changes you thought of?
Your boilers don't need to be right next to the water... You can use pipes to transfer water from the pump to the boilers at their location next to the track. Would have taken less than 5 minutes when you initially placed the boilers and engines.
"Inserters must touch the train directly"
So, mining directly into electric furnaces and only collecting the output would have been perfectly fine.
I can't imagine why he made a lot of the choices in this challenge run. Why did he not run some pipes instead of barreling everything, even water.(I am the most confused on this) he also went with the most expensive version of a chest(the car lol) after saying no to chests. Also, why were a lot of these intermediate products not directly output into the building like the mining drill to furnace you mentioned. If he was fine with inserting into and out of cars, why did he not create a car main bus line? plus he could have used thrash slots and his inventory instead of logistic chests for the robots to pull some of the weight... Very confusing challenge run
@@acters124 trash slots still require chests to work
@@acters124 Re: Car main bus: I think there's a distinction to be made between "creative interpretation of the rules that makes the challenge more practical" and "creative interpretation of the rules that warps the challenge into a different, less interesting one".
I think there might have been an unspoken rule: "No processing of items without having the train involved." Or something like that.
I was thinking he should've moved the boilers to the track and made a station for them. This idea is even better.
“Back in my day you used to have to craft steel axes. That was over 4 years ago? Geez I’m getting old” I felt that. I can’t believe I’ve been playing factorio for over 4 years
bro no way it's been 4 years since you had to craft the steel axe what
yeah a few days ago I played factorio researched the steel axe and then got some steel and was confused for a moment cause I forgot that wasn't a thing anymore
I’ve been here since the current player sprite was brand new, I think that was around 2016
Wanna feel really old? Alien Science Packs were removed 6.5 years ago.
you have successfully dealt 5d6 psychic damage to me... also almost if not already 5 years now...
If any of you try to try this challenge for yourself, know that you can build boilers on a coal patch and have a miner feed directly into the boiler (like in speedruns) :3
every time he ran out of power I was like "surely this time he'll build his power plant on a coal patch..."
I may or may not be stupid
I was also trying to minimize pipe usage, because I felt it went against the challenge
@@DocJade Just reset for a seed with a coal patch on the coast :D
@@DocJade 15:23 there you go
best part about this is the simple fact that with only 1 train you don't need rail signals
I love how this game has game mechanics that induce fear and respect
From my years spent in Factorio, I have learned that the question is not "Can you...?". The question is "Should you...?".
I thought Dosh was a big masochist but seeing you I think I know a bigger one now.
EDIT: You are a vanilla torture enjoyer while Dosh is a modded torture enjoyer lol
ive just started falling down the rabbit hole of insane factorio challenges and the first asylum patient ive met was Dosh! love his vids lol
This is dosh's beltless Factorio video on Crack
But… Michael Hendriks
@@JordanMetroidManiac Micheal Hendriks is special, instead of a masochist I think of him more as a challenger showing things that are beyond most people's reach because of the amount of skill required.
@@nikidino8 a lot of hendriks challlenges are based around biters and those type of challenges dont give me the dopamine rush like these self inflicted torture videos do.
Lol that “science a minute of… maybe” was the funniest part of the video. Earned a sub
Can't believe I'm spending my weekend looking forward to a factorio challenge video...
No you haven't
Liar
I feel you man, but not the weekend part, factorio is a style of life
my name if fejj
I did enjoy the 'refueling boilers' subplot, can't wait for season 2 to see it evolve even further
You can move a train remotely :
pick a train from the map and ctrl click somewhere on the rails it has access to. It will make a temporary stop there.
Actually might be a mod though, cant confirm now
Yeah that's a vanilla feature, I use it a ton in my green circuit series!
Huh, there are a lot of things that I would have done differently there, but I know you were AFK for a lot of that. One of the big things would be finding coal close enough to water so that the boilers could just be direct inserted into, or so you could run longer pipes from the pumps. Another would be to make things "directly" more often, e.g. miners insert into furnaces that feed directly into assemblers. IIRC this allows higher buffering, but maybe you already get that from inserting directly to/from the train. Certain things like yellow belt are made entirely with iron, so you could just load that directly rather than bringing ore and coal to a smelter, bringing plate to a gear maker, bringing gears to a belt-maker, etc.
All in all, an incredibly tedious run toward the end, and I quite enjoyed watching the timer take huge leaps into the future as it required more and more waiting around.
Miners directly into furnaces makes sense, but furnaces can't feed directly into assemblers without inserters, which would be breaking the rule that inserters must interact with the cargo wagon at one end or the other.
Quick improvement idea. You could have used one memory cell to keep track of all the items in your system. You'd just have to read the hand contents of the inserters as a push signal and multiply those that take something out of the system by -1. Then you could have disabled the stations before the train arrived, saving even more time.
Also how did you like the cheese cake?
Love how everyone in the Factorio community knows and references each other.
this is because factorio is just programing and the youtube community is stack overflow
315 hours
Average runescape player: ah yes, a Tuesday
I bet the flying robot frame is called that so new players know what to expect
me seeing the title: "of course you can beat it this way"
clicks on the video while leaning back in my chair: "but how much will you suffer?"
High quality, straight into it, no sponsor segments and no high sub count? You got yourself a sub in 4.328 seconds
babe wake up a new Dosh-esque channel just dropped
But in all seriousness I'm pleasantly surprised at the quality and the amount of effort you put into your videos as a channel of your size! Definitely keep things up, excited to see your future content!
Train conditions for each stop could eliminate the need for filtering most wagon slots and allow for more varied loads, but everything would have to be exact, up to limiting hand size on the inserters so they only place into the train what is needed.
Kudos for (mostly) sticking to your guns on having as few buffers as possible, like pipes and cars. No tanks for oil cracking sounds like a killer.
17:07 Fun Windows tip: you can switch which monitor a program is on with the hotkey Win + Shift + Arrow keys
You can mix accumulators and coal power. Have a power switch isolate your steam engines from the rest of the base, use circuits to read an accumulator's charge, and turn the switch on when charge is low. It leads to the switch flickering since the steam charges the accumulator, shutting it of, and the accumulator discharging, turning it on, but I haven't noticed a downside other than the power graph being a mess.
here i go wanting
more
random factorio challenges
Your videos are some of the best content I've watched in a long time! Keep the amazing work up! 💯
Love the video! Giving sub even before finishing watching it whole.
The idea for a challenge: Only ore, plates and steel can go on the belt. The rest must be transported only by insertors or pipes.
In the end, you will end up with many assemblers feeding each other very linearly.
Running a wire from an accumulator let’s you read its charge. If you wire it to a power switch connected to the steam engines, you can have the engines turn only if the accumulators are below a certain power.
I think it would be a lot faster to NOT set the filters in wagon and manage it on the station side.
Also, speed control mod would help you with idling time. I don't think anyone would mind that.
Next in insane challenges. Can you beat factorio with only one assembler?
It's on the Todo list already!
ua-cam.com/video/9dzQge6pe2o/v-deo.html this schould be the closest to that and only 13x9 ;)
I now want to pull a snowpiercer and have one long train, which would definitely not be a huge pain.
If you're looking to try this again, if you're willing to use mods, I believe you can adjust the cargo wagon reserved slots automatically with the recursive blueprints mod
truly mad! thanks for the monumental effort
Great video. Love the idea for the challenge
That smooth jump into the train 12 minutes in!!
I always use one wagon (and also bidirectional railroads). Never thought it coulbe be considered a challenge.
cool, looking forward to more factorio content!!
I read the title and I was like "of course its possible, I beat the game without using trains because I didn't feel like learning how they work" but he's also not using belts? insanity.
"a science per minute of .. maybe" that got a good laugh out of me man
I don’t know but I think, that if you do something like this you should have an extremely complex logic system, were you try to balance the production in such a way, that first iron is made for gears which are filed in to an Assembler which needs them and then turned in to further needed materials. Then Copper is made and so on.
This way you would slowly cascade up words tile you make all the needed since. So you would try to make a system in which every assembler only ever needs one thing at a time after a startup period and that in the best case scenario at one moment only one thing is needed in the hole factory to continue the since production.
The circuit conditions for this system would bee extremely complex but the train would only move the really needed things in nearly exactly the needed amount.
You could've done smelting on site with electric furnaces.
You could've also make the train mixed use, so it could hold only type of recipe at a time.
why not use the train to load coal into the boilers?
So you spent nearly 100 hours from first clicking onto the rocket research and launching the rocket. I can literally see the pain this video gave you
Probably would've been better to bring the oil over by pipe. The train spending time going to the oil outpost is killing everything else.
It might also have been an interesting idea to store steam in a steam tank.
@26:45 you can use an accumulator with wire conditions and an electric switch to disconnect steam engines until the accumulators are nearly empty. That way you can give accumulators priority over steam power.
I was just in st. George this weekend for a shooting competition! Small world! Also great content man! Keep it up!
13:40 put a smile on my face lol you're amazing
Being a fan from utah. Hearing that you live in the same state made me unreasonably happily
Very cool challenge. For the sequel, I would really like to see this again but with the Cybersyn mod for controlling the train. That would allow the train to use the entire capacity for every delivery run, would allow for prioritizing stations, and even doing round-robin between stations that are of the same priority.
This would shift the challenge from trying to work around the train scheduling limitations, and more to building an efficient factory with this throughput limitation. I reckon this could function pretty well!
Also using chests wouldn't add anything to the throughput. The only thing banning them causes is pain.
DUUUUDEEE!!! MIDITORIO!!! i used that a ton a long time ago!
Thanks for stopping by
And yes banning chests was purely for pain.
@@DocJade Glad you liked Miditorio!
4 minutes in and this is already so cursed.
Knowing you, this is gonna be quite glorious towards the end.
Fun fact about the rocket: while it takes power to craft the rocket parts from LDS, RCU, and rocket fuel, the actual launching of the rocket itself does not take power. So the moment that last rocket part is crafted, if you lose all power, the rocket can still be launched. Therefore, the recipe to craft 1000 space science from 1 satellite is one of only two recipes that is done within a machine that does not take any power (the other is 'crafting' water via an offshore pump).
(also the other rocket launch recipes, like space science to fish also count, so I should really generalize to saying 'rocket launch recipes do not take power').
this would probably be pretty okay if you attached like 50 cargo wagons with the same filters so that each stop would get more chances to produce
the thing you said about """flying""" robot frames irritates me greatly and my life will never be the same
I never used trains and beat the game in factorio twice. I only learned that trains were useful halfway through my SE playthrough.
It would be fun to see something with more wagons. I just like idea of moving trains instead of belts
I saw video where wagons was used as bulk buffer and immobile. but your design looks much more fun
dosh would be proud
"then start researching purple science, or as i like to call it, purple science" is somehow one of the greatest jokes I have ever heard
Here's my comment to appease the YT algorithm. :)
But in all seriousness, that's some serious patience you've got, my friend! Kudos to you! Looking forward to your work in the future!
pretty good video, it reminds me a lot like dosh style videos. nice!
Having watched the video, I see one minor and one major improvement. You could keep track of the train contents like a sushi belt, which might make it easier. The big thing is actually setting up your train path good. I would make it so that the train would pick up all the needed items to produce a full set of science/rocket parts, or at least always goes with a full buffer. While this would increase some cycles, it should vastly decrease the amount of time wasted going in useless loops. Combine this with circuits to cut off entire production chains early and maybe some math to optimize your travel vs production values, and space science might be doable.
I was doing some more thinking, and I believe I found the best strat: use multiple assembler stops for the same item in a loop. Considering just the very endgame, on the longest recipes it should only be a few stack inserter swings to leave an assembler running for 30+ seconds. Instead of wasting that time waiting, put more ingredients to start more assemblers. I haven’t done a the math, but it feels like you could get a speed increase of at least 2x, and maybe even 5x or more on the later science and rocket parts.
I remember teh days before fluid wagons were a thing, you had to just put barrels of oil into the wagon.
Another great video!
This is just nuts
I think it would be interesting to do this run but with 2 changes:
Remove the insertion limit on smelters/assemblers so that inserters will fill their inputs rather than just load enough for a couple batches
Add recursive blueprints so you can automatically change the filters on the cargo wagon at different stations.
I bet it'd be possible to get at least like, 1 or 2 spm all but space with those 2 changes and a good setup..
Even with a single train, I'm surprised you lasted 43hrs without being run over. My anxiety as you're building and standing on the tracks 😂😂
how about building steam boilers directly at a coal patch so you dont have to manually refuel them? also i think you could do oil cracking, plastic, sulphur and robot frames directly at the oil patch so you dont need any space for barrels
"There’s this emperor, and he asks the shepherd’s boy: 'How many science per minute?' And the shepherd’s boy says, ‘There’s this mountain of pure diamond. It takes an hour to climb it and an hour to go around it, and every hundred years a little bird comes and sharpens its beak on the diamond mountain. And when the entire mountain is chiseled away, the first science pack will have been assembled.’ You may think that’s a hell of a long time. Personally, I think that’s a hell of a bird."
fuck i love that this kinda run is a genre now :D
Yea I remember factorio from the day of allien science and needing to craft steel axes.
Next time you can make the train move, plus use inserters to move items between the machines and THE CARGO WAGON but no chests and no belts. Pipes aren't allowed, but you also get a FLUID WAGON
This was certainly an exercise in suffering. You somehow turned Factorio into a cursed idle game.
I would console you, but that would be disingenuous, considering how hard I laughed throughout this experience.
But I do hope that cheesecake brought you a modicum of comfort in your time of need.
So it's a big sushi base but train? I'll take two!
You note that wires are free when you blue print them, and that is the whole reason the Wire Cutter mod makes them free all the time. I consider it one of the best mods to get.
This is unreal. Nice meme
"I'm not an electrical engineer" I get that reference :D
5:20 This man effectively just created RAM and in only that many components and was just like, "Nah. Isn't worth even giving a general idea of how it works."
because i totally forgot how it worked lmao
I can't say it's the case but naming the robots "flying robots" could just be an intuitive game design choice.
That way you have an idea of what they are before you use them so it's something you can aim towards on the tech tree.
It's not a very big thing but small choices like that can accumulate to influence how easy it is for players to get into a game/feel more secure while playing it. It's kinda like how most good games involving puzzles tend to tease a mechanic in a very easy and intuitive way to understand before having you use it yourself to solve a puzzle.
super cool! good job!
i think you should be allowed to use buffer chests (just forbid chests into chests) and normal-ish train stations (maybe enough belt to make a traditional train station)
it would save your sanity, speed things up, and all the rest of the challenges would remain
What do you mean by buffer chests? Chests that go before or after the assemblers? Yes, that would greatly decrease the waiting time.
Here's a slight modification to keep the spirit of insanity of this run: You are allowed chests, but only for "warehousing". i.e. your chests can't be linked to anything except for the train.
First advantage: You can have chests for iron and copper plates spread throughout the "tape" that you pre-fill (possible from the outside) so that you don't keep running out of them halfway though on the long trip along the tape loop. Only once all of the warehouses are stocked would a circuit condition enable stations inside the "tape". The second benefit would be that you can stock up on empty barrels before interacting with a barreling machine and empty the stack of empties before interacting with an un-barreling machine.
@@Pystro i think the efficiency of the run would be greatly increased without reducing the complexity much, if the assemblers had chests that were fed from the train and then fed into the assemblers. it just means you don't have to wait for the crafting to be complete before you move on and can offload stuff and do other things while its processing
@@Maric18 I agree. The actual challenge here in the end seemed to have been that the production was unreasonably throttled. It was basically the "train bus" base that I've seen some youtuber do before, but with 100 times fewer wagons on the train.
> water barrel production
haha, in space exploration you barrel _everything_ that can be barreled until midgame to send it into space.
hell of a challenge run
you man, are insane.
I would have use a mod to get loader, allowing me to put a 100 items inside the assemblers
i feel like one train with no cargo wagon limit would be more interesting
And the no-belt prize goes to - DocJade!
the rhyme was epic
"Why Did I write butter? Am I okay?" - DocJade 2023
Fuck yeah! A new Doc video!
I'm glad someone beat factorio slower than me, I have 80 hours in my playthrough, a very large base, 5 spidertrons, and no rocket
20:08 I understood "3 ish Showers later" lol
the craziest part about this video is that you never had cheese cake before it
played factorio over 3000 hours. 8k hours total uptime.
I've only made trains in 2 of my dozens of worlds.
belts and chest chains to bots depending on how late game.
mods definitely help
Now fill the whole train track with cargo wagons and keep the same filters for your wagons
It's like sushi, but oh so much worse.
Why did you not use landfills to allow the train to automatically fill the boilers? Sure, it would require some effort but... It definitely looks like it's worth it.
DocJade, could you not have setup oil car based or generally use cars to drive your stuff around in parallel to the trainwork or use pipes as storage for advanced oil processing?
A non flying robot frame? that's an exoskeleton!
12:05 good job, tex
Question 1: why not have miners mine directly into furnaces, then pick up coal from train and place smelted metal into it?
Question 2: Why haven't you made a train stop for boilers?
Still faster than me trying to optimize some spaghetti of mine for 2+ hours that will be demolished 30 minutes later.
Amazing video, I enjoyed this quite a lot! 🙂
Just curious, maybe I've missed the explanation for it: why didn't you setup an empty-barrel assembler at the oil site? This would remove the necessity to restock by hand.
Anyways, keep up the content! Love those kind of videos a lot - kind of like a vanilla-Dosh 🙂
If the train was completely full of the empty barrels, the fluids cant be drained from the filled barrels because there would be nowhere for the newly emptied barrels to go :)
Fellow Utahn and Cracktorio addict. New viewer lately, been digging the vids a lot man. 👍
You are allowed to build boilers on coal patches and insert coal directly into the boilers.