Starc > Johnson any day Just one ashes and sa can't decide Johnson better than starc Even starc avg is 22 in odi Or 27 in test While Johnson 26 in odi and 28 in test Starc better
Yash - You are asking to remove the series against the “hapless” Sri Lanka in 2016 for Starc. But that Sri Lanka in that test series beat Australia 3-0. So, why should we discard that series?
That isn't a fair comparison, because Bumrah is obviously got going to be more used to Indian conditions than Cummins. And Bumrah hasn't had to bowl in fast bowling graveyards in the likes of Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh.
This is India favouritism clearly but when you have to judge any one you should focus on his skills. Muhammad Asif clearly the most skillful bowler of 2006-9 💯💯
If the criterion could be relaxed a bit with those played 30+ tests in 2000s Mcgrath would number 2 close competition to Steyn, 297 wickets at 20 striking at 51 average of 19 in Ind which is phenomenal.
Overall McGrath was a brilliant bowler than Steyn but considering Dale Steyn Test career prime, he is easily the best test pacer one could ever see and ofcourse better than McGrath. Steyn highest 400 wicket takers in 80 test matches. Steyn highest bowling strike rate among the current crop 42.3. Steyn has the fastest 100 wicket taker in just 19 test matches. (300 wickets in 61 matches and 400 wickets in 80 test matches).
So we're believing these clowns over ABD & Hashim Amla? Based on skill Asif is top 3 easy. Hashim Amla: Best Bowler I ever faced is M. Asif (SuperSport Interview with Sunil Gavasker). ABD: All time greatest test bowler he would bowl for life: Asif. james Anderson: I tried to copy Asif an entire summer: ua-cam.com/video/nqIUDdriP2I/v-deo.html
You can have best of skills,what matters is how long did u execute them on international level which resulted in your team's victory... Messi is not the GOAT for having insane skills..he basically used those skills to bring laurels for his club and country
bumrah might be in the list of the bestt all format bowler of even alltime, but top 3 in test with this less amount matches and wickets? holy hell no....age and longetivity always matter....hope bumrah continues doing well but its just emotional bias and nothing....ffs even adam voges had 99 avg at a time, doesn't mean the guy is the best batsman ever...lets just wait
Steyn Anderson Bumrah Rabada Cummins Mitchell Johnson Stuart Broad Morne morkel or Kemar Roach or Trent boult or Mohd Shami or Mitch Starc (pick any one from this 5)
Anderson and Broad have longevity in their favour. Otherwise the other bowlers completely outclass them. Morne Morkel was a better bowler than Broad. If you don’t believe me check the stats. England play a lot more tests than other countries. Broad and Anderson also had the luxury of only playing tests due to being paid huge amounts by the ECB they didn’t have to worry about money. Only reason Broad is there is because he played so much. Unfortunately for Morkel, he lives in Steyn’s shadow so everyone forgets about him.
How can you guys not even mention Shami when he has outright better stats than Boult while playing majority of tests in India. He's certainly more skilled bowler than philander as well who is one trick pony.
Did.....you just say that Shami is a better bowler than....boult....and philander? I mean Kyle jamieson is clearly the superior bowler to bumrah, Mcgrath, Marshall and every other elite fast bowler in history cause he has better stats
There were a lot of great seamers not discussed. Hazelwood should have easily been in the discussion ahead of Starc. Then there are the likes of Southee, Shami, Morkel, Johnson among others who were not talked about. I think there has to be a filter of a minimum number of test matches or test wickets to make some sort of assessment. The one strike that would go against Bumrah imo is that outside of India he has only been used in SENA and WI conditions. I don't doubt his ability to succeed but he just hasn't bowled in flat Pakistani conditions, or the turners of Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. And I honestly don't see that changing because India likes to preserve him for the SENA conditions and stronger opposition. Steyn is easily number 1. Anderson gets number 2 just on the basis of longevity. Cummins, Bumrah, and Rabada are roughly equivalent, although Rabada's asia stats probably put him just below the other two. Cummins I may rank just over Bumrah just based on his success in Pakistan and decent enough stats in India. Philander is an underrated bowler but his stats are too lopsided towards swinging and seaming conditions to be in top 8. Hazelwood has a similar problem with his good numbers heavily stacked in Aus, Eng, and NZ. Shami has an unusual record of having better numbers in Asian conditions than in the likes of Aus, Eng, NZ, so in a way he's the antithesis of Hazelwood.
Great Analysis, you really know what you are talking about 😅, could you give your take on best spinner's? these are my top picks Grame Swann R Ashwin Nathan Lyon Yasir Shah Herath i am not adding Ajmal due to ban on his action.
@@shoaibmemon8788 Hard to look past Ashwin and Lyon in the post 2000 era, using the same filter as the seamers. Easily the two spinners with the most longevity and wickets. Ashwin's numbers in Aus and SA are poor, but if you drill down on his Aus numbers, they are lopsided because of his early Aus tours. His numbers in the last 2 tours are quite good, but he just had less games, due to injuries and not being part of first XI. He has decent enough numbers for a spinner in NZ and pretty good numbers in Eng, and he's obviously extraordinary in Asia. Lyon has also got poor numbers in SA. Surprisingly, he has an average record in SL and poor records in UAE and Pak, where someone like Ashwin had never played, due to not facing Pak in his career. Has decent to great numbers pretty much everywhere else. So its really difficult to choose between the two. Swann is maybe 3rd on the list. He had a very poor record in Aus, but is good pretty much everywhere else. As an English spinner, its a pretty good record to have. Its remarkable how no one remembers Herath despite taking 400+ wickets. However, his record is ridiculously lopsided towards home and asian conditions., averaging 30+ outside of SL, UAE, Pak, and Zim. Ravindra Jadeja has to be on the list, maybe competing with Swann for 3rd spot. He has poor numbers in Eng and NZ, but he had great numbers in Aus and SA, though he only has 2 tests in SA. And he's excellent in Asia and in WI. Yasir Shah isn't really in this competition, because his numbers are only good in SL, UAE, WI. Elsewhere he has average or poor numbers. Can't think of too many other spinners who have had consistent and long careers in the post 2000 era in test cricket. Moeen Ali and Shakib al Hasan are the only two others I can think of, but they don't have great bowling numbers. Surprisingly Shakib averages 30 on his home turf, which is strange. Great numbers in SA though. Harbhajan Singh would have been in the discussion, but he debuted before 2000.
@@nikunjdixit1175 thats another Brilliant Take from you ❤️ But one correction Yasir doesnt have a great average in Eng but he did took 1 Ten Wicket Haul at Lords and won Pak the test match, i agree he didnt perform that well in rest of the matches he played in England but we should keep in mind that even Warne and Murali doesnt have a five wicket haul at Lords so for Yasir to single handedly take half of those Twenty Wickets is an Amazing achievement, at times some players creates an amazing impact which stats doesnt show, for example Ben Stokes only averages 35 something but his average probably doesnt tell the whole story and dont do the proper justice, this is Just My Opinion though, Other then that couldnt agree more with your Analysis.
@@shoaibmemon8788 See, I don’t put much weightage on a single performance. The fact tha Yasir had one great test and still has mediocre numbers in Eng means that he must have done quite poorly in other Eng tests. I don’t give Lords any special extra importance.
@@nikunjdixit1175 the only reason i give Yasir's Lords brilliance a high value is because its hard to single handedly have such an impact in an away match that too in a SENA country for a Spinner, i have strong reasons to believe that picking 10 wickets in a match and 0 in the next test is better then picking five wickets each in two test because more often then not those runs or wickets when they are in a bulk they probably help the team more because test cricket is a long format and you need special performances to win an away test, i mean remove Rahul Dravid's Adeilade test numbers (Double Century and a 70 odd) and even his numbers are mediocre in Aus.
You people are trying to compare players who have 5-10 excellent years and rest below avg years with Anderson who had 20 excellent years .. If u r just pick prime .. then you can even go for one series then Flintoff would be the best ever.. do you agree on that?? No .. so don't pick the prime years only
Hazelwood, Morne morkel ,Shami, Stuart Clark, Mitch Johnson, Ishant Sharma, Southee all should atleast have gotten a mention.
Dale Steyn #1 , No Debate
I like how everyone agrees Dale Steyn is #1
Mitchell Johnson > Starc, Hazelwood and Harris. That Ashes and SA series were legendary. Otherwise a good set of bowlers.
Starc > Johnson any day
Just one ashes and sa can't decide Johnson better than starc
Even starc avg is 22 in odi Or 27 in test
While Johnson 26 in odi and 28 in test
Starc better
Dale steyn was best in his prime!Anderson is simple bowler...
What would be the case against Md Shami to not be at least a wild card mention?
He averages 27
@@Sid-e5y So does Broad.
If Neil Wagner could bowl 140 kph, . . .
Mohamad Shami,Bumrah- India
Cummins,Hazalewood- Aus
Broad,Anderson- England
Rabada,Steyn- SA
Asif,Amir- Pak
Boult,Southee- NZ
Broad Averages nearly 62 in India, 35 in Australia it's incredible he is even being considered in the list, Shamis record is way better.
Exactly!!!
Dale styen was a fire in his prime , no body wanted ho play him , dale styen is the greatest 0f all the ,amd n0 1 test bowler
Come on you can't have boult higher than mitchelle Johnson, it's ridiculous !
Mitch Johnson, Hazelwood, Zaheer all notable misses
Yash - You are asking to remove the series against the “hapless” Sri Lanka in 2016 for Starc. But that Sri Lanka in that test series beat Australia 3-0. So, why should we discard that series?
Asif has to b no 1 if your talking about skills
What the heck?? Bumrah don't have good company?? Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja below avg??
In overseas they are all average bowler where bumrah play. Check their stats
The moment they said bhumrah is top 3 in tests I knew they are idiots. Bhumrah is amazing but definitely not there yet in tests
Quality conversation
Dale Steyn was a different beast altogether
Brett Lee and Mitchell Johnson were not even discussed. Lee would make the top 8
Bumrah averages 16 in india,cummins 32 ,that ends the conversation between the two
That isn't a fair comparison, because Bumrah is obviously got going to be more used to Indian conditions than Cummins. And Bumrah hasn't had to bowl in fast bowling graveyards in the likes of Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh.
This is India favouritism clearly but when you have to judge any one you should focus on his skills. Muhammad Asif clearly the most skillful bowler of 2006-9 💯💯
Steyn
Cummins
Bumrah
Anderson
Asif
Rabada
Shami
Hazelwood
Bumrah is no where near those Legend's
If the criterion could be relaxed a bit with those played 30+ tests in 2000s Mcgrath would number 2 close competition to Steyn, 297 wickets at 20 striking at 51 average of 19 in Ind which is phenomenal.
Overall McGrath was a brilliant bowler than Steyn but considering Dale Steyn Test career prime, he is easily the best test pacer one could ever see and ofcourse better than McGrath.
Steyn highest 400 wicket takers in 80 test matches.
Steyn highest bowling strike rate among the current crop 42.3.
Steyn has the fastest 100 wicket taker in just 19 test matches.
(300 wickets in 61 matches and 400 wickets in 80 test matches).
@@soumyabratasahoo679Steyn was in a league of own. Mcgrath's second half is better than all bowlers barring Steyn.
Pretty interesting that you brought Asif and not Shami... infact stupid
So we're believing these clowns over ABD & Hashim Amla? Based on skill Asif is top 3 easy. Hashim Amla: Best Bowler I ever faced is M. Asif (SuperSport Interview with Sunil Gavasker). ABD: All time greatest test bowler he would bowl for life: Asif. james Anderson: I tried to copy Asif an entire summer: ua-cam.com/video/nqIUDdriP2I/v-deo.html
You can have best of skills,what matters is how long did u execute them on international level which resulted in your team's victory...
Messi is not the GOAT for having insane skills..he basically used those skills to bring laurels for his club and country
Steyn by a long way.. Anderson's not even in the top 15.. can't have an average of 30 plus in Australia and South Africa and be #1
Mitchell Johnson???? I'm shocked he doesn't even get a mention
MORNE FUCKING MORKEL?
No Stuart broad in top 8
bumrah might be in the list of the bestt all format bowler of even alltime, but top 3 in test with this less amount matches and wickets? holy hell no....age and longetivity always matter....hope bumrah continues doing well but its just emotional bias and nothing....ffs even adam voges had 99 avg at a time, doesn't mean the guy is the best batsman ever...lets just wait
Steyn
Anderson
Bumrah
Rabada
Cummins
Mitchell Johnson
Stuart Broad
Morne morkel or Kemar Roach or Trent boult or Mohd Shami or Mitch Starc (pick any one from this 5)
Mohammad Asif, great batters rated him high after facing him. We are just jokers sitting outside and talking numbers, including the panelists. 😊
@@LiveAndLetLiv 1st of all he is a FIXER. I have zero respect for a fixer, whether he even is a McGrath to Pakistani fans
Anderson and Broad have longevity in their favour. Otherwise the other bowlers completely outclass them. Morne Morkel was a better bowler than Broad. If you don’t believe me check the stats. England play a lot more tests than other countries. Broad and Anderson also had the luxury of only playing tests due to being paid huge amounts by the ECB they didn’t have to worry about money. Only reason Broad is there is because he played so much. Unfortunately for Morkel, he lives in Steyn’s shadow so everyone forgets about him.
Amazing conversation.
Dale steyn no.1 test bowler
Shami is best bowler
Mitchell Johnson
Quite a great list
Asif wasn't even the best paver of Pakistan team at that time....Gul was the back bone of Pakistan attack
Hey Vishal from Naval Public School!
Mitchell Johnson?
How could you put bumra's name in this group😂😂 what he proves?? Typical Indian silly choice. Where's Bond/Shami/Hazelwood/Malinga/ Starc/Southee😂😂😂
Don’t be so statistics driven, consider natural skillsets as well
Asif Steyn👍
steyn is no.1 but where shami in the list
How can you guys not even mention Shami when he has outright better stats than Boult while playing majority of tests in India. He's certainly more skilled bowler than philander as well who is one trick pony.
Did.....you just say that Shami is a better bowler than....boult....and philander? I mean Kyle jamieson is clearly the superior bowler to bumrah, Mcgrath, Marshall and every other elite fast bowler in history cause he has better stats
Bumrah still don't have a 10fer to his name
Josh Hazelwood guys
Anderson should go lower. Cummins a place higher.
Mohammad Asif is no 1
There were a lot of great seamers not discussed. Hazelwood should have easily been in the discussion ahead of Starc. Then there are the likes of Southee, Shami, Morkel, Johnson among others who were not talked about. I think there has to be a filter of a minimum number of test matches or test wickets to make some sort of assessment.
The one strike that would go against Bumrah imo is that outside of India he has only been used in SENA and WI conditions. I don't doubt his ability to succeed but he just hasn't bowled in flat Pakistani conditions, or the turners of Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. And I honestly don't see that changing because India likes to preserve him for the SENA conditions and stronger opposition. Steyn is easily number 1. Anderson gets number 2 just on the basis of longevity. Cummins, Bumrah, and Rabada are roughly equivalent, although Rabada's asia stats probably put him just below the other two. Cummins I may rank just over Bumrah just based on his success in Pakistan and decent enough stats in India. Philander is an underrated bowler but his stats are too lopsided towards swinging and seaming conditions to be in top 8. Hazelwood has a similar problem with his good numbers heavily stacked in Aus, Eng, and NZ. Shami has an unusual record of having better numbers in Asian conditions than in the likes of Aus, Eng, NZ, so in a way he's the antithesis of Hazelwood.
Great Analysis, you really know what you are talking about 😅, could you give your take on best spinner's? these are my top picks
Grame Swann
R Ashwin
Nathan Lyon
Yasir Shah
Herath
i am not adding Ajmal due to ban on his action.
@@shoaibmemon8788 Hard to look past Ashwin and Lyon in the post 2000 era, using the same filter as the seamers. Easily the two spinners with the most longevity and wickets. Ashwin's numbers in Aus and SA are poor, but if you drill down on his Aus numbers, they are lopsided because of his early Aus tours. His numbers in the last 2 tours are quite good, but he just had less games, due to injuries and not being part of first XI. He has decent enough numbers for a spinner in NZ and pretty good numbers in Eng, and he's obviously extraordinary in Asia. Lyon has also got poor numbers in SA. Surprisingly, he has an average record in SL and poor records in UAE and Pak, where someone like Ashwin had never played, due to not facing Pak in his career. Has decent to great numbers pretty much everywhere else. So its really difficult to choose between the two.
Swann is maybe 3rd on the list. He had a very poor record in Aus, but is good pretty much everywhere else. As an English spinner, its a pretty good record to have. Its remarkable how no one remembers Herath despite taking 400+ wickets. However, his record is ridiculously lopsided towards home and asian conditions., averaging 30+ outside of SL, UAE, Pak, and Zim. Ravindra Jadeja has to be on the list, maybe competing with Swann for 3rd spot. He has poor numbers in Eng and NZ, but he had great numbers in Aus and SA, though he only has 2 tests in SA. And he's excellent in Asia and in WI. Yasir Shah isn't really in this competition, because his numbers are only good in SL, UAE, WI. Elsewhere he has average or poor numbers. Can't think of too many other spinners who have had consistent and long careers in the post 2000 era in test cricket. Moeen Ali and Shakib al Hasan are the only two others I can think of, but they don't have great bowling numbers. Surprisingly Shakib averages 30 on his home turf, which is strange. Great numbers in SA though. Harbhajan Singh would have been in the discussion, but he debuted before 2000.
@@nikunjdixit1175 thats another Brilliant Take from you ❤️
But one correction Yasir doesnt have a great average in Eng but he did took 1 Ten Wicket Haul at Lords and won Pak the test match, i agree he didnt perform that well in rest of the matches he played in England but we should keep in mind that even Warne and Murali doesnt have a five wicket haul at Lords so for Yasir to single handedly take half of those Twenty Wickets is an Amazing achievement, at times some players creates an amazing impact which stats doesnt show, for example Ben Stokes only averages 35 something but his average probably doesnt tell the whole story and dont do the proper justice, this is Just My Opinion though,
Other then that couldnt agree more with your Analysis.
@@shoaibmemon8788 See, I don’t put much weightage on a single performance. The fact tha Yasir had one great test and still has mediocre numbers in Eng means that he must have done quite poorly in other Eng tests. I don’t give Lords any special extra importance.
@@nikunjdixit1175 the only reason i give Yasir's Lords brilliance a high value is because its hard to single handedly have such an impact in an away match that too in a SENA country for a Spinner, i have strong reasons to believe that picking 10 wickets in a match and 0 in the next test is better then picking five wickets each in two test because more often then not those runs or wickets when they are in a bulk they probably help the team more because test cricket is a long format and you need special performances to win an away test, i mean remove Rahul Dravid's Adeilade test numbers (Double Century and a 70 odd) and even his numbers are mediocre in Aus.
Bumrah ahs the best average
So you are telling me Shane bond was not great?
Mohommed Asif #1 in Tests
Most underrated Fastbowler ever, and unluckyly, he was born in Pakistan 😢
1)Dale Steyn
2)Kagiso Rabada
3)Pat Cummins
4)Jasprit Bumrah
5)Stuart Broad
6)James Anderson
7) Mitch Johnson
8)Neil Wagner
No Stuart broad in top 8
Avg in india 60+
Avg in Aug 30+
Hi❤😊
You people are trying to compare players who have 5-10 excellent years and rest below avg years with Anderson who had 20 excellent years ..
If u r just pick prime .. then you can even go for one series then Flintoff would be the best ever.. do you agree on that?? No .. so don't pick the prime years only
Steyn number 1,pat Cummins 2, James Anderson at 3,