CORRECTION: Seeker After Shadows allows doing an Action on an extra D6, not an additional cast when doing an action, sorry think I must have gotten confused with Loyal Thrall on that one!
This vid is so helpful against my TS buddy!! I’d suggest when you do these type vids in the future, maybe add on a sentence, “if you are fighting against this unit, this and that would do best” etc etc - maybe that boosts interaction too. How best to field and army as well as how to fight against them.
@@CalAndAly abominant has no synergy with TS, it's a poor inclusion in the list. Remember that local meta isn't indicative of what's actually sensible.
I love the Thousand Sons, but they need more variety in their roster. I would love to see some of their Horus Heresy units (Osiron Contemptors, Khenetai Blade Occult, Rubrics with aetherblasters) come back in 40k form.
Id love to see a lord discordant type HQ or elite that is like a mounted battle mage. Give him like a spear or lance and mounted gun and put him on that back of mutalith type beast
would love to see a pyschic dreadnought and another terminator option - these models are available in 30k so would not be too hard to get rules for 40k.
Tbh I'd love too see a rubric heavy squad, a rubric fast attack squad and two psychic dreadnoughts one that blows up with AoE Mortal wounds and just a decent pysker one
I understand the ranking of the vortex beast, I think it's a fair ranking, but I don't think I'll ever not have one in my TS army, simply because it's such a cool looking model, and I like that it's able to dish out mortal wounds in the shooting phase. But what really makes it fun is that it's a semi-reliable bomb unlike most things that explode.
I expanded my TS army with a contignent of Deamons when their codex arrived. One unit of horrors, one exalted flamers, one unit of flamers and a Fateskimmer herald in chariot. That is totally awesome and compensate for the lack of movement in my other iterations.
Honestly, I think the biggest use for the rhino is to add 3 inches of movement onto a rubric squad. It can help secure mid field objectives and let you save your teleport for another unit. With temporal surge, a rubric squad can disembark, move 13 inches, and still charge if they need to.
@@alecryan5962 it's incredibly situational as rubrics are usually ran in 5s and they are the shooting unit that you don't want tied up. In this meta 5 man obsec isn't taking an objective from someone very often and most factions in meta don't have such a vulnerability to a charge without a wipe threat.
I love thousand sons, favorite faction by far. I think games workshop really needs to help this faction with better internal balance and more unique units.
Totally agree! I think maybe if they come up with a few more stratagems and rules for Tzaangors, maybe substitute in some more Tzaangors for the terminators in the combat patrol box, and buff the datasheets for Tzaangors, that would go a long way towards helping TS players want to use more Tzaangors. Sincerely, James Workshop
Seeker after shadows allows you to roll an additional d6 when doing a psychic action. It’s the Loyal Thrall points upgrade that allows the user to do a psychic action as a normal cast, which is only available to Sorcerers.
I have to say, the Infernal Master has to be my favorite model in the T-Sons range, and one of my favorites in the entire game. And I'm not even a T-Sons player (Vlka Fenryka).
I think it is strange that you went on about rehati on the exalted sorcerer but did not mention the dilettante upgrade to get an extra relic for points. I always have an exalted sorcerer with dilettante on my lists since the release of nephilim
Yeah effectivelly ... but it may be due to the cult used ... actually if you play cult of time ... warlord trait + athenian scroll with rehati on exalted sorcerer is the best combinaison. And as you 2 other HQ choice in 1500 or 2k will certainly be arhiman AND infernal Master ... you lay be blocked to take the exalted with dilettante. But well i concur if you play cult of duplicity i think dilettante may be a lot more intersting than rehati.
@@aeaaea8113 The best cult is Duplicity by a mile, I'd say Dilettante is an auto-take there now relics cost CP. We only have 3 good relics but you're always taking one or two of them, 30pts is a steal to start with an extra CP and compress both your relics onto one unit. Infernal master isn't an auto-take either, I've seen lots of top lists cutting him. Good but not auto-take.
Probably should have mentioned that one, it does seem that all the top placing thousand sons lists in nephilim seem to have included rehati, and not dilettante though. Not sure why, maybe people just think the extra cast is better value for the cost than the bonus relic!
Love my Thousand Sons army. This is my favorite to play. I tend to agree with most of the assessment, but I haven’t given cultists a chance yet. Might need to. I’m also debating getting a leviathan for situational list builds at a more casual level. I have taken the vortex beast when I’m not using Magnus but I cannot justify both at once. And I really like Magnus right now.
Thank you for the Video. TS are my Army and i love them. I think the Vortex Beast is a great Unit Choice for Cult of Duplicity to distract and charge into the Enemy from behind or an open flank.
Unfortunately Mutaliths all have to use different powers, which is why you never see more than one being taken. Which is a shame because I agree, they are magnificent monstrosities
I've been running Fateweaver in a smol patrol with my TSons. It's nice to save the glimpse for him to help re-roll a 3+ save if you need it! My lists have had 2 Infernal Masters in them and I like it so far.
While I agree with the heldrake rating in a vacuum, it’s a really interesting meta call ATM heldrakes are a really good way to deal with enemy flyers in a very immobile army, and units like sun sharks and harpies are pretty competitive right now, so being able to tie up and maybe kill a sun shark that would instead be raining hell on your termis or rubricae would let you prioritize your ground units’ damage on what are probably more efficient targets though tbh that’s probably better on generic CSM armies, since they won’t have the psychic firepower thousand sons have to volley at targets like harpies
They're still a bad choice as you can't hide them behind terrain and they get shot off the table in relevant matchups that play Flyers. T'au have ways to ignore hit penalties and can easily take it down and Nids can send a flyrant at it to kill it for free.
I can understand that speculation on the Tzaangors. My thought is the same, but may be a bit harsh on the rating. The question I ask myself when choosing Tzaangors or Cultists is, would I pay 20 points to give a unit of 10 a 5++? Usually, the answer is "yes" because even as a screen or a backfield objective holder, making them even a little bit tougher for not that many points could put a damper on your opponent's plan when a unit of tzaangors lives on a 5++ rather than high confidence to wipe a unit of 10 cultists. Everything else that you said is spot on.
In Tsons Cultists DON'T GET OBSEC that is the most important thing. You pay 20 points for 5++ AND OBJECTIVE SECURED. Now that is auto - include upgrade
If GW would just give the CSM splinter books (i.e. WE, DG, Tson) the same treatment they gave the SM books (BA, DA, SW) and allow them to take the bulk of the generic data sheets it would really help fix most of Tson's biggest issues. Even if they didn't become psykers things like possessed, warp talons, obliterators, and havocs would help a lot.
All the Thousands Sons need to make them go from a B+/A- tier of an Army to a solid A+/S- tier are some heavy Toughness 5+ Psykers equivalency to CSM obliterators,, and some high fast atks unit like CSM Chosen/Bikers/Possessed. T-Sons secondaries are really good. Mutate Landscape do a Psychic Action on an Objective for 3 VP doesn't matter if you own it or not. If your opponent has a Psyker then you as long as you cast more Blessings/Witchfire/etc... You gain 3+ VP. On a 5 objective map with your opponent has 1 Librarian you should be able to max both those in a game. And with 5 Objectives depending on where they are Burn Empires can be really good, do an action on a objective not in your deployment zone (non-characters) at the start of your next Command Phase gain 4 VP. If we had that Toughness 5 which less be real it would probably have a 2+ base save unit with -1 to hit, a 4++, with Cult of Duplicity. And with CP can bring back dead models. Game over. We win the secondary game.
Just fyi, Mutate Landscape got changed back when Nephilim released. We do need to control it to Mutate it now. Psychic Interrogation or Warp Ritual are normally the stronger picks these days.
@@d.t.m8393 I have to look back into my Nephililm book, been playing a lot of Crusade. Here is perfect scenario. They have 10 Necrons Warriors, you have 5 Rubrics and a Character with Loyal Thrall Upgrade. Smite, if it's anything less than 11. Pay the CP to make it flat 3MW, then use Cabal points for Malefic Charge to deal additional D3, (if you dealt 6MW then you are golden at this point), however will assume you only did 4. If your Sorcerer has Doombolt great. If not, pay a CP to give him Doombolt. At a minimum you should have killed 7(9 max) Necrons Warriors giving you the Point and now you can do the Psychic Action. Then next turn that Rubric Marines if they are still alive so Sorcerers Facade jump the Sorcerer to the next point if need and repeat.
TSons really need some more units. Something like some heavy support psychic robots like they have in Heresy, some melee focused elite terminators, and some kind of unique fast attack. Maybe even have them team up with Dark Mech and get some pyshic men of iron for cheap troops (Ala poxwalkers) or fill another role.
I'm thankful for the tank buffs we got in the CSM codex. The Land Raider is SO much more usable at T9 with soulshatter lascannons at d3+3 dmg. It's not perfect, but it is decent. It's just too bad GW hasn't created a way to give that to TSons. I don't know why they've only committed to points changes rather than altering the abilities of the units in their updates. Haven't heard of a good reason for that.
Same for how a Rubric blob with flamers is better as an Elite choice in CSM than in TSons because of Let the Galaxy Burn. It's sad, but they just feel better elsewhere.
Good list, agree with pretty much everything. Though I would not rate the Infernal master a 10/10. Those two pacts are great, yes, but taking an infernal master instead of an exalted sorc or Ahriman is just not worth it. Cant be on disc either so positioning him to buff the crucial unit is very hard especially since the pacts are done in the command phase. Pacts aren't mega reliable as well and with current CP economy you'd rather not do the stratagem to auto succeed. If he was an elite unit like the shaman then he would be a clear 10/10 but as he's a HQ I would give him 8/10. Personal opinion ofc. I do bring an Infernal master if I'm making a battallion + patrol list but in Nephilim that's a bit hard considering the CPs.
I'm seeing a lot of "vehicles have no synergy with the faction" lines there. Maybe GW needs to seriously look at changing Brotherhood of Sorcerers to do something meaningful for all Tsons tanks? I mean a Tsons Heldrake and a Word Bearers(just as an example) Heldrake both cost 165pts, but the Word Bearers one gets a 5++ vs Mortals and full hit re-rolls on top of it's datasheet whilst the Tsons one gets nothing. Kind of a raw deal, no wonder you don't see vehicles in most Tsons lists!
At the risk of making Tzaangor Enlightened a little more useless, here's my proposal to the melee/speed issues Thousand Sons have: small squad of melee Rubrics and Sorcerer on Discs, something akin to the Doom Knights in Tzeentch's roster from Total War Warhammer III
Doesn’t matter because nobody wants to take tzangors. We aren’t here for the stupid Age of Sigmar transplants. I want more options for the dusty power armor boys.
Seems to me that an Army of Renown that focuses on vehicles would have some interesting design space available and would be a different way to run them
A Strength and Weakness series sounds great Auspex. Since you started with this one (Very Good) like to see Word Bearers. Shame to see that the Rubric Terminators have better melee than others though
I just recently started the hobby and ts as well as the necrons are my Favorit. My question is, does the flamer for the scarab occult has any merrit, or should I just stick to the soulreaper Cannon?
They added inferno to most of the bolt weapons (still need it for heavy bolters imo) but they didn’t do the same for warpflamers. Why can’t i have an inferno combi-warpflamer as an option for vehicles and/or a terminator sorcerer? Is it a lore issue? Otherwise i think its a solid codex.
Strengths: Psychic Phase, AoC, Objective Secured, Solid AP, Army Wide +1 to Psychic Tests and 5++ Invul, Magnus did nothing wrong, Duplicity and Time are the best Weaknesses: Basically Terminators are the army with some Rubrics and Sorcerers, Volume Fire, Everything else is better than them at the psychic phase currently, Anything with built in Psyker defense is a hard nerf to the army, Fuck the space furries, hardly any unique units, slow mfs, if it isn't Time or Duplicity results vary
I want to build a thousand sons army but i just bought tue Crimson King Battleforce and the Combat Patrol and im already running low on actual thousand sons units to buy other than Ahriman. I dont want to use crappy looking chaos cultists and chaos spawn and the hellbrute... none of them look like thousand sons. id be better off getting one of the $50 horus heresy dreadnought and just customizing it than using that hideous looking helbrute. Black legions stuff just doesnt look good among the thousand sons stuff. We need more Tzeentch chaos models for 40k!!! hopefully 2023 will see a new kit for thousand sons.
Not sure if I was unclear at the time, but they can't - I was trying to say that's one of the disadvantage of using regular ones over exalted sorcerers!
I don't usually comment, usually a silent observer/supporter. But aren't Tzaangor 1A + 1A with Chainsword OR Tzaangor Blades? (Resulting in 2A per model, 3 on Twistbray) And can get 3A per model, 4A on Twistbray with the "Swelled By The Warp" power? Or was that what the implication was when you described them?
What would people think if Bolt Weapons had an upgrade across the board that granted +1 Dam on a to wound roll of 6, ut Only when targeting enemkes of equal or lower toughness as the strength of the bolt weapon's attack? Instead of going even more in an AP direction?
i realy liked using Achiles land raider with melta guns. It have good firepower if keept alive. it can be buffed well. +1 to hit and additional ap and strenght if needed. it melt vehicle like a butter and realy good after elit units like terminators.
What? No, TSons don't have ANY good long range firepower and especially long range anti-tank firepower. They shoot ONLY tons of low 4 and 5 strength -2 ap shots, have just medium tier melee (very bad anti-tank melee) and can be kited as they are very slow. Worst enemies for them: -Lots of high toughness units screened by very cheap infantry (to tank witchfires) say Chaos Knights with allied Daemons to screen, nightmare level enemy for them. -Lots of very strong melee units just rushing all in, say Drukhari (focused on Wych Cults) or Blood Angels or Daemons of Khorne, they will simply lose a melee contest. -Enemy with tons of deny the witch, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights.
@@captainflapjax7240 yes, competition Tyranid army, but they can go very fluffy weaker armies types, like swarms or monsters spam etc. Only very specific Tyranids armie builds are top tier
@@stevenschnepp576 a oversight by gw, they changed the keywords to fit csm but in doing that the current wording for how to set their keywords to be illegal so to tsons and death guard became unavailable. Though I only think a hardass TO would enforce that
CORRECTION: Seeker After Shadows allows doing an Action on an extra D6, not an additional cast when doing an action, sorry think I must have gotten confused with Loyal Thrall on that one!
This vid is so helpful against my TS buddy!! I’d suggest when you do these type vids in the future, maybe add on a sentence, “if you are fighting against this unit, this and that would do best” etc etc - maybe that boosts interaction too. How best to field and army as well as how to fight against them.
Great vid! Would have also loved synergies with using the chaos knight abominate for instance, since that seems to be a popular choice with TS
@@CalAndAly abominant has no synergy with TS, it's a poor inclusion in the list. Remember that local meta isn't indicative of what's actually sensible.
"Dust off the Rubricae"
Damn that's a good stealth pun if I've ever heard one
I love the Thousand Sons, but they need more variety in their roster. I would love to see some of their Horus Heresy units (Osiron Contemptors, Khenetai Blade Occult, Rubrics with aetherblasters) come back in 40k form.
I really love TS, but I think their roster lacks a little bit flavour. Hope they will get some deathguard like treatment in the future :)
Id love to see a lord discordant type HQ or elite that is like a mounted battle mage. Give him like a spear or lance and mounted gun and put him on that back of mutalith type beast
would love to see a pyschic dreadnought and another terminator option - these models are available in 30k so would not be too hard to get rules for 40k.
@@TheKitchpp26 YES! Dreadnought Psycher would be my number one!
A Psychic Centurion for TS would be cool imo. It's a very under used model, and I'd like to see a chaos re-design for it.
Tbh I'd love too see a rubric heavy squad, a rubric fast attack squad and two psychic dreadnoughts one that blows up with AoE Mortal wounds and just a decent pysker one
I understand the ranking of the vortex beast, I think it's a fair ranking, but I don't think I'll ever not have one in my TS army, simply because it's such a cool looking model, and I like that it's able to dish out mortal wounds in the shooting phase. But what really makes it fun is that it's a semi-reliable bomb unlike most things that explode.
MVB dies to anything in the meta and explosion works in your enemy's favour
Man I really want unique Thousand Sons Daemon Engines. Such a cool army for such a tiny unit pool.
Cries in Harlequin
definitely although it was the tiny pool that drew me in as a cheap and easy 2nd faction
@@wephilips6651 Lmao same. Now that I've got a taste though, it leaves me wanting more.
Give the Thousand Sons Achea psy-automata, like in 30k.
I expanded my TS army with a contignent of Deamons when their codex arrived. One unit of horrors, one exalted flamers, one unit of flamers and a Fateskimmer herald in chariot. That is totally awesome and compensate for the lack of movement in my other iterations.
Honestly, I think the biggest use for the rhino is to add 3 inches of movement onto a rubric squad. It can help secure mid field objectives and let you save your teleport for another unit. With temporal surge, a rubric squad can disembark, move 13 inches, and still charge if they need to.
Why would you ever charge with Rubric Marines?
@@HalfZatoichi to grab an objective or to tie up a shooting unit.
@@alecryan5962 it's incredibly situational as rubrics are usually ran in 5s and they are the shooting unit that you don't want tied up. In this meta 5 man obsec isn't taking an objective from someone very often and most factions in meta don't have such a vulnerability to a charge without a wipe threat.
I love thousand sons, favorite faction by far. I think games workshop really needs to help this faction with better internal balance and more unique units.
Totally agree! I think maybe if they come up with a few more stratagems and rules for Tzaangors, maybe substitute in some more Tzaangors for the terminators in the combat patrol box, and buff the datasheets for Tzaangors, that would go a long way towards helping TS players want to use more Tzaangors.
Sincerely,
James Workshop
Seeker after shadows allows you to roll an additional d6 when doing a psychic action.
It’s the Loyal Thrall points upgrade that allows the user to do a psychic action as a normal cast, which is only available to Sorcerers.
Yep. And Seeker is still amazing on the Shaman for CP farming on Psychic Interrogation
Thanks, I must have misread that one pretty badly! Appreciate the correction, I've posted it in a pinned comment above :)
@@binkaboi5865 Aye its still good, as it also gives you an extra Cabal Point.
just starting warhammer, TS are my first army i’m building, love these informative videos!
How'd it go?
I have to say, the Infernal Master has to be my favorite model in the T-Sons range, and one of my favorites in the entire game. And I'm not even a T-Sons player (Vlka Fenryka).
I think it is strange that you went on about rehati on the exalted sorcerer but did not mention the dilettante upgrade to get an extra relic for points. I always have an exalted sorcerer with dilettante on my lists since the release of nephilim
Yeah effectivelly ... but it may be due to the cult used ... actually if you play cult of time ... warlord trait + athenian scroll with rehati on exalted sorcerer is the best combinaison. And as you 2 other HQ choice in 1500 or 2k will certainly be arhiman AND infernal Master ... you lay be blocked to take the exalted with dilettante. But well i concur if you play cult of duplicity i think dilettante may be a lot more intersting than rehati.
@@aeaaea8113 The best cult is Duplicity by a mile, I'd say Dilettante is an auto-take there now relics cost CP. We only have 3 good relics but you're always taking one or two of them, 30pts is a steal to start with an extra CP and compress both your relics onto one unit.
Infernal master isn't an auto-take either, I've seen lots of top lists cutting him. Good but not auto-take.
Probably should have mentioned that one, it does seem that all the top placing thousand sons lists in nephilim seem to have included rehati, and not dilettante though. Not sure why, maybe people just think the extra cast is better value for the cost than the bonus relic!
Love my Thousand Sons army. This is my favorite to play. I tend to agree with most of the assessment, but I haven’t given cultists a chance yet. Might need to. I’m also debating getting a leviathan for situational list builds at a more casual level.
I have taken the vortex beast when I’m not using Magnus but I cannot justify both at once. And I really like Magnus right now.
Thank you for the Video. TS are my Army and i love them.
I think the Vortex Beast is a great Unit Choice for Cult of Duplicity to distract and charge into the Enemy from behind or an open flank.
Take 3 mutaliths, be a chad.
The virgin meta unit spammer vs the chad niche monster spammer
Unfortunately Mutaliths all have to use different powers, which is why you never see more than one being taken. Which is a shame because I agree, they are magnificent monstrosities
As a new player my first ever battle was against TS, I got completely destroyed in the psyker phase.
They are pretty strong in the offensive psychic phase, but they aren't even the strongest (Grey Knights/Tyranids)
What army were you playing?
@@ehlersgj I'm actually playing Black Legion, so it was Chaos vs Chaos for my first game.
@@ianjohnson5752 I play vs a Black Legion friend and our games are 50/50. What sort of list are you running for your BL maybe I can help?
I've been running Fateweaver in a smol patrol with my TSons. It's nice to save the glimpse for him to help re-roll a 3+ save if you need it! My lists have had 2 Infernal Masters in them and I like it so far.
Maulerfiends be like: "you do not seem to understand: I'm not locked in combat with you. You are locked in combat with me!" :P
My cousin started collecting a 1000 sons army just because I play Necrons. I will take this video to heart >.>
A good FW unit would be the Decimator with dual soulburner petards! Some extra MW is always nice.
Every unit performs JUST AS PLANNED!!
I have had great success with a 5 Chaos Spawn squad with flanking and charging from the board edge, most people done expect it.
Perfect timing!
Will be facing my first game against TS tonight.
Glory to the Sons of Magnus !
?
@@Tyresiax it's a scam
While I agree with the heldrake rating in a vacuum, it’s a really interesting meta call ATM
heldrakes are a really good way to deal with enemy flyers in a very immobile army, and units like sun sharks and harpies are pretty competitive right now, so being able to tie up and maybe kill a sun shark that would instead be raining hell on your termis or rubricae would let you prioritize your ground units’ damage on what are probably more efficient targets
though tbh that’s probably better on generic CSM armies, since they won’t have the psychic firepower thousand sons have to volley at targets like harpies
They're still a bad choice as you can't hide them behind terrain and they get shot off the table in relevant matchups that play Flyers. T'au have ways to ignore hit penalties and can easily take it down and Nids can send a flyrant at it to kill it for free.
I like the Tzeentch Firefox icon
Thank you Auspex! Loved the vid. Would like to see a vid in the future on Tsons and their allies.
Oh boy... 5 am video! Good shit.
Best in the world
I can understand that speculation on the Tzaangors. My thought is the same, but may be a bit harsh on the rating. The question I ask myself when choosing Tzaangors or Cultists is, would I pay 20 points to give a unit of 10 a 5++? Usually, the answer is "yes" because even as a screen or a backfield objective holder, making them even a little bit tougher for not that many points could put a damper on your opponent's plan when a unit of tzaangors lives on a 5++ rather than high confidence to wipe a unit of 10 cultists. Everything else that you said is spot on.
In Tsons Cultists DON'T GET OBSEC that is the most important thing. You pay 20 points for 5++ AND OBJECTIVE SECURED. Now that is auto - include upgrade
Plus you can just have a Shaman follow them around with Weaver of fates and Doombolt, give them a 4++ on an objective, or do a flat 3 damage.
If GW would just give the CSM splinter books (i.e. WE, DG, Tson) the same treatment they gave the SM books (BA, DA, SW) and allow them to take the bulk of the generic data sheets it would really help fix most of Tson's biggest issues. Even if they didn't become psykers things like possessed, warp talons, obliterators, and havocs would help a lot.
I think we can all agree.. Tzaangors should be renamed Tzaangry Birds
I'm curious about thoughts about the laser variant of the vindicator. For extra 55 points it addresses the first 2 weaknesses listed at 17:30.
Way to expensive in points for the fire power imo.
Many buffs can work on vehicles, infernal master, a few cult spells, etc.
All the Thousands Sons need to make them go from a B+/A- tier of an Army to a solid A+/S- tier are some heavy Toughness 5+ Psykers equivalency to CSM obliterators,, and some high fast atks unit like CSM Chosen/Bikers/Possessed.
T-Sons secondaries are really good. Mutate Landscape do a Psychic Action on an Objective for 3 VP doesn't matter if you own it or not. If your opponent has a Psyker then you as long as you cast more Blessings/Witchfire/etc... You gain 3+ VP. On a 5 objective map with your opponent has 1 Librarian you should be able to max both those in a game. And with 5 Objectives depending on where they are Burn Empires can be really good, do an action on a objective not in your deployment zone (non-characters) at the start of your next Command Phase gain 4 VP. If we had that Toughness 5 which less be real it would probably have a 2+ base save unit with -1 to hit, a 4++, with Cult of Duplicity. And with CP can bring back dead models. Game over. We win the secondary game.
Just fyi, Mutate Landscape got changed back when Nephilim released. We do need to control it to Mutate it now. Psychic Interrogation or Warp Ritual are normally the stronger picks these days.
@@d.t.m8393 I have to look back into my Nephililm book, been playing a lot of Crusade.
Here is perfect scenario. They have 10 Necrons Warriors, you have 5 Rubrics and a Character with Loyal Thrall Upgrade. Smite, if it's anything less than 11. Pay the CP to make it flat 3MW, then use Cabal points for Malefic Charge to deal additional D3, (if you dealt 6MW then you are golden at this point), however will assume you only did 4. If your Sorcerer has Doombolt great. If not, pay a CP to give him Doombolt. At a minimum you should have killed 7(9 max) Necrons Warriors giving you the Point and now you can do the Psychic Action.
Then next turn that Rubric Marines if they are still alive so Sorcerers Facade jump the Sorcerer to the next point if need and repeat.
TSons really need some more units. Something like some heavy support psychic robots like they have in Heresy, some melee focused elite terminators, and some kind of unique fast attack. Maybe even have them team up with Dark Mech and get some pyshic men of iron for cheap troops (Ala poxwalkers) or fill another role.
If they would let us use the other AoS Tzaangor stuff I'd be happy.
Those heavy support robots also exist in the post-heresy Ahriman books, there's even a named one (Credence).
I'm thankful for the tank buffs we got in the CSM codex. The Land Raider is SO much more usable at T9 with soulshatter lascannons at d3+3 dmg. It's not perfect, but it is decent. It's just too bad GW hasn't created a way to give that to TSons. I don't know why they've only committed to points changes rather than altering the abilities of the units in their updates. Haven't heard of a good reason for that.
Same for how a Rubric blob with flamers is better as an Elite choice in CSM than in TSons because of Let the Galaxy Burn. It's sad, but they just feel better elsewhere.
Thank you for this Professor.
I wish you could legally use CSM stragtums as the Thousand Sons. Let the Galaxy Burn in particular would be very nice.
Good list, agree with pretty much everything. Though I would not rate the Infernal master a 10/10. Those two pacts are great, yes, but taking an infernal master instead of an exalted sorc or Ahriman is just not worth it. Cant be on disc either so positioning him to buff the crucial unit is very hard especially since the pacts are done in the command phase. Pacts aren't mega reliable as well and with current CP economy you'd rather not do the stratagem to auto succeed. If he was an elite unit like the shaman then he would be a clear 10/10 but as he's a HQ I would give him 8/10. Personal opinion ofc. I do bring an Infernal master if I'm making a battallion + patrol list but in Nephilim that's a bit hard considering the CPs.
I'm seeing a lot of "vehicles have no synergy with the faction" lines there. Maybe GW needs to seriously look at changing Brotherhood of Sorcerers to do something meaningful for all Tsons tanks? I mean a Tsons Heldrake and a Word Bearers(just as an example) Heldrake both cost 165pts, but the Word Bearers one gets a 5++ vs Mortals and full hit re-rolls on top of it's datasheet whilst the Tsons one gets nothing. Kind of a raw deal, no wonder you don't see vehicles in most Tsons lists!
Sadge the land raider is a 3 outta 10 😂. Cant even proxy as a rhino. Great vid! Thank you for confirming i can put in a contemptor.
At the risk of making Tzaangor Enlightened a little more useless, here's my proposal to the melee/speed issues Thousand Sons have: small squad of melee Rubrics and Sorcerer on Discs, something akin to the Doom Knights in Tzeentch's roster from Total War Warhammer III
....Birb. Buh-buh-buh-birb-birb-birb. Birb is the word. Buh-buh-buh-birb.
I think the Vindicator Laser Destroyer works well with my TS.
@Auspex Tactics Was kinda hoping you'd talk about the Tzaangor only rules. I'm curious about your thoughts on the matter.
Doesn’t matter because nobody wants to take tzangors. We aren’t here for the stupid Age of Sigmar transplants.
I want more options for the dusty power armor boys.
@@timunderbakke8756 But... I am here for the stupid Age of Sigmar transplants. Vortex beast for the win.
Seems to me that an Army of Renown that focuses on vehicles would have some interesting design space available and would be a different way to run them
That is if they have any unique vehicles...
A Strength and Weakness series sounds great Auspex. Since you started with this one (Very Good) like to see Word Bearers. Shame to see that the Rubric Terminators have better melee than others though
Please do a tier list of dreadnoughts
I just recently started the hobby and ts as well as the necrons are my Favorit. My question is, does the flamer for the scarab occult has any merrit, or should I just stick to the soulreaper Cannon?
with the new weakenss to tyranids, how do you feal phycers will fare in 10th ed?
They added inferno to most of the bolt weapons (still need it for heavy bolters imo) but they didn’t do the same for warpflamers.
Why can’t i have an inferno combi-warpflamer as an option for vehicles and/or a terminator sorcerer?
Is it a lore issue?
Otherwise i think its a solid codex.
Would like something basic like strength and weakness of havocs weapon choices. 1 of each 2 of each 4 of same etc? thanks.
Strengths: Psychic Phase, AoC, Objective Secured, Solid AP, Army Wide +1 to Psychic Tests and 5++ Invul, Magnus did nothing wrong, Duplicity and Time are the best
Weaknesses: Basically Terminators are the army with some Rubrics and Sorcerers, Volume Fire, Everything else is better than them at the psychic phase currently, Anything with built in Psyker defense is a hard nerf to the army, Fuck the space furries, hardly any unique units, slow mfs, if it isn't Time or Duplicity results vary
I want to build a thousand sons army but i just bought tue Crimson King Battleforce and the Combat Patrol and im already running low on actual thousand sons units to buy other than Ahriman. I dont want to use crappy looking chaos cultists and chaos spawn and the hellbrute... none of them look like thousand sons. id be better off getting one of the $50 horus heresy dreadnought and just customizing it than using that hideous looking helbrute. Black legions stuff just doesnt look good among the thousand sons stuff. We need more Tzeentch chaos models for 40k!!! hopefully 2023 will see a new kit for thousand sons.
Who won the September giveaway?
I didn’t realize that standard sorcerers could take rehati. That’s definitely something to consider.
Not sure if I was unclear at the time, but they can't - I was trying to say that's one of the disadvantage of using regular ones over exalted sorcerers!
The grade scale shout be x out of 9. But
I don't usually comment, usually a silent observer/supporter. But aren't Tzaangor 1A + 1A with Chainsword OR Tzaangor Blades? (Resulting in 2A per model, 3 on Twistbray) And can get 3A per model, 4A on Twistbray with the "Swelled By The Warp" power? Or was that what the implication was when you described them?
I think you should reread swelled by the warp ... its not on all the unit only on ONE model of your unit ... the spell is quitesubpar due to it...
@@aeaaea8113 Yeesh. Yeah ok I clearly hadn’t read that one properly. Damn. That’s a legit bummer.
@@timothygrey726 yep ... the spell would be great otherwise ... putting it on 10 pack scarab would be terrific ^^
I haven’t played in over ten years. When did the rhino lose the ability to open its top and have two models fire out of it?
Long time ago
What would people think if Bolt Weapons had an upgrade across the board that granted +1 Dam on a to wound roll of 6, ut Only when targeting enemkes of equal or lower toughness as the strength of the bolt weapon's attack? Instead of going even more in an AP direction?
What about allying Daemons of Tzeetch?
Did a section on Thousand Sons in this allied daemons vid :) ua-cam.com/video/haQZq4qvyY0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=AuspexTactics
Magnus did everything wrong, though he did try his best...
i realy liked using Achiles land raider with melta guns. It have good firepower if keept alive. it can be buffed well. +1 to hit and additional ap and strenght if needed. it melt vehicle like a butter and realy good after elit units like terminators.
So they have no Weaknesses? Is that’s the final verdict. Have a feel no pain or you automatically lose.
What? No, TSons don't have ANY good long range firepower and especially long range anti-tank firepower. They shoot ONLY tons of low 4 and 5 strength -2 ap shots, have just medium tier melee (very bad anti-tank melee) and can be kited as they are very slow.
Worst enemies for them:
-Lots of high toughness units screened by very cheap infantry (to tank witchfires) say Chaos Knights with allied Daemons to screen, nightmare level enemy for them.
-Lots of very strong melee units just rushing all in, say Drukhari (focused on Wych Cults) or Blood Angels or Daemons of Khorne, they will simply lose a melee contest.
-Enemy with tons of deny the witch, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights.
@@magearamil8626 to summarize... Tyranids
@@captainflapjax7240 yes, competition Tyranid army, but they can go very fluffy weaker armies types, like swarms or monsters spam etc. Only very specific Tyranids armie builds are top tier
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contemptor dreads?????
Not in codex and currently technically illegal
@@shuwan4games don’t think so they are in the Armor compendium
@@shuwan4games Why? They're called out as being available to Thousand Sons and Death Guard, last I checked.
@@stevenschnepp576 a oversight by gw, they changed the keywords to fit csm but in doing that the current wording for how to set their keywords to be illegal so to tsons and death guard became unavailable. Though I only think a hardass TO would enforce that
correction it seems they have finally faq'd that so all good now thank god
First
fake first
@@M6252. he's first on my screen xd
@@M6252. who gives a shit?
First comment
thousand sons are broken in the bank
tzaangor enlightened need serious buffs. so good looking but so trashy rules wise.