@@joshhamester World is plenty of passive-aggression. Although Yuta and Dogen were definitely not being passive aggressive. It isn't even roasting. It's just a bit of a mutual joke at best.
When dealing with Dogen, you have to assume he 1. Will overpraise everyone else 2. Will ensure he is the butt of the joke 3. Will ensure there is a joke. So, I don't think he was really putting down his own abilities, so much as just doing his usual routine.
Yuta does make a good point about native speakers here. I myself am bilingual, I speak both English and Spanish. However because I learned Spanish first, and spoke it for a few years I’m considered a Native Spanish speaker. However my Spanish isn’t as good as your average native Spanish speaker, since I never learned much Spanish growing up, writing that is. So I never got to expand my vocabulary when it came to talking with other people. So typically my Spanish can come off as that of a non native speaker to other native speakers. Great video on Yuta’s end.
You better improve it, in almost every Hispanic country you will be made fun of if you can't speak it properly, are you Spanish, Mexican, Argentine...? What's your background?
Oh man, I know that feeling. Native Afrikaans with English as a second language, but my Afrikaans has been getting progressively worse for years and my English better. So as such, my Afrikaans ability is not 'native'.
@@isaac4273 I know they call it palta in Peru. I grew up in a Spanish community with lots of different types of Hispanics. So I know how to communicate in what i can describe as, standard Spanish in the community.
This is just a guess on my part, but I've always felt like Dogen's "stiffness" in speaking is somewhat intentional, like he speaks unnaturally slowly in order to enunciate properly, especially in his educational videos. Some of the best language teachers I've had do a similar thing. But it may very well also be that I'm thinking about something else and don't really have a good enough Japanese ear to recognize the stiffness that Yuta is talking about. Either way, it's fun to see this friendly banter between the guys.
I'm not sure, but maybe because he spent a lot of time studying words separately to master their pitch accent which lead to pronouncing sentences with "exaggerated" pauses to the native ear, I think if he tried to speak faster without paying attention to pitch accents it would sound smoother but not necessarily correct. This is just a guess on my part too. Lol.
@@oban2259 Dogen has also said in a video long ago, he intentionally speaks pitch perfect on purpose and it takes a long time to film his videos because of it. When he speaks Japanese in interviews, it is very different and not stiff at all. I don't remember which video it was but it was a couple of years ago.
Yeah, I think what are you mention is a "colloquial" speech, munching sounds "on the fly" - it is actually should happen before you speak next word (in every language, not just English). I think Yutasan understand the concept, since the same "skill" in his Japanese is top notch, absolutely smooth colloquial speech (even far too fast for understanding for an average Japanese student). But it is extremely hard to replicate if you know 3 or more languages (Language teachers tend to learn more than 2, once you fluent in 2 - you become addictive usually and start learning a new one ;)). I think you can achieve it with only 2 languages, when you speak both of them at the same time all the time. Like without "alright now let's switch to English". Imagine daily conversations in a crowd with English-speaker and your native-speaker at the same time. When you add a third or more languages I think it becomes near impossible to do, your brain and mouth-muscles will stumble here and there for sure (especially if we are talking about languages from a different "sound" group).
I'm half Japanese, but mostly grew up in the USA so take what I say with a grain of salt. I can hear the "stiffness" in Dogen's speech, but it's not bad. It's almost like he speaks too perfectly. It would be something like always perfectly saying "I am going to go to the bathroom" instead of using a more natural flow like "I'm gonna go to the bathroom."
In Japanese, in this context, this is an insult! PS: As some people don't get the joke on the joke. I will explain it for the casual reader. At the end of the video, Yuta-san is inviting to call his English "Jouzu", exactly because it would normally be not proper to invite such compliments in Japanese society. Jan-Willems comment can be seen as a joking reply, because he uses inappropriate register/politeness level. The wording 英語すごく上手ですね、ゆうたさん would be appropriate towards children, somebody of lower social status or between women, but not between men of equal social status. From a coworker I would expect/say something like 英語すごいよ。英語上手だ。 PSS: As Yuta has another old video I think where he explains how inappropriate use of register in Japanese is used to express insults.
@@Bianca_Toeps Stating a fact for the benefit of the casual visitor to this prominent comment? Does it somehow become more or less true after watching the video?
@@michaelrenper796 Yes, this can come across as judging, and asserting that you also know the subject in question well enough to judge him. Depending on the context, it's basically the same as saying "I'm better than you".
Even Native Speakers who grew up immersed in a language and studied it in school can experience fluctuating skill levels after an extended time of not regularly using the language. I'm a US American who grew up in Japan, learning to speak at the age of 4, attended public Japanese schools and used it continuously until moving back to the States in my mid teens. Japanese people could not tell I wasn't Japanese when speaking on the phone, and I passed the highest level of the JLPT exam with a good score. For a long time, I felt more comfortable speaking Japanese than I did English (which I spoke at home with my parents, and learned early academic English skills from my mother). Yet, having lived in the US for over 20 years now and with few opportunities to have conversations in Japanese, I find myself frustratingly rusty in my vocabulary recall and general ease of constructing sentences in spite of pronunciation and grammar still being fully intuitive. I read Japanese books (prose and manga), listen to Japanese music, watch anime, and type in Japanese to my Japanese friends on Facebook, but it's truly not the same as real-time conversation and uses totally different skills.
it's absolutely natural. any skill not constantly honed - including your native language - can get rusty. I've lived in my home country Germany until I was 31, but now have been living in India - where I mostly talk English in day to day life and some Hindi - for almost a decade. Whenever visiting back home it takes me a week until I feel comfortable in German language structure again. It's my native language, but now I find myself peppering it with English or even Hindi phrases that just seem to bring accross a point more quickly and accurately and finding the German equivalent takes a lot of effort. It's frustrating, because I used to speak a very high level of German once due to the fact that I used to just read a lot. I'm also trying to keep my native language a bit alive by reading and listening to German news, but without daily interaction, it just takes a backseat. Your brain will keep whatever it needs more frequently and more spontaneously on a more instant recall priority. Good news is, that doesn't mean your prior language skill is completely gone, it just shifted from active to passive competency from where it can migrate back to active more easily again if you end up needing to use it more again. language skills - even for your native - are never fixed, they always evolve.
Yuta, I'm glad you acknowledged the joke. I thought it was hilarious but mostly because I felt like his entire intention behind making video was just to make that single joke. I would really be interested in seeing you both do a video or stream together!
I love how these two incorporate their jokes into their videos that I almost completely forget for a second that they weren't actually being serious with some of their points given 😅
It's the same thing with the Arabic language. I speak the Iraqi Arabic, but when I encounter an Egyptian person, I try to speak using their dialect because mine is hard to follow, and usually they would ask me if I'm either half Egyptian or an Egyptian born in USA because they can still detect a non-native Egyptian dialect in my conversation. When I speak my northern Iraqi Arabic dialect and switch to the most common one, I do sound awkward. Since I studied both English and Spanish at the same time in Iraq, my accent got lost in the middle and most people cannot figure out my ethnicity. I think it is fun and makes you unique and I never get offended by people questioning my ethnicity based on my accent.
@@masterspark9880 I think it depends of the person, but Japanese people will praise many things without truly meaning it, and the joke is that if a native speaker tells you 日本語上手, then you are not fluent yet because they would just speak with you naturally instead of praising your Japanese ability. However, don’t worry, it’s a joke/meme, and I think some may actually mean it if they say it to you
I'd say your accent is the only part of your English that singles you out as a non native speaker, Yuta. Apart from that, your English is nearly flawless to my ear. And your accent is more endearing than an impediment to understanding.
Great point on speaking a language natively but not perfectly. I grew up in Canada but spoke Portuguese with my grandparents. My Portuguese accent is definitely native level but my vocabulary is definitely not. So when I went to Portugal and spoke with staff at stores and restaurants, they’d be totally confused when I couldn’t understand something, because I sound like I SHOULD understand.
Same. My Japanese situation is the same as your Portuguese. My vocabulary is limited to range of vocab used by my parents and their friends here in Canada. So it's the vocab they most commonly use everyday in a casual setting. It's also generational since they don't use the latest vocab younger age groups use in Japan.
@@yuko604 You also have the generational politeness that comes with it. Especially in Japanese where your vocab is so different when addressing your elders. I can't imagine talking to my friends the way I talk to my grandparents... :)
As a bilingual living in a western country, my Cantonese will always never as good as someone from HK because I don't get to speak it every day. So even though people say my Canto is natural (lived in HK when I was young), there will always be words or little nuances that results in an accent. And that's okay because I am blessed I can speak two languages, even if the second language is a little rusty. People shouldn't judge one another on their accent because everyone has linguistic capabilities based on what language they were taught as a child. In fact, I am impressed if a gaijin can speak some Canto for example, because the way you curl your tongue or subtle intonations are very difficult to master.
That interaction between them was amazing, Dogen sketch made Yuta go deeper into the subject, and there's so much depth on it, unfortunately UA-cam is not designed to those people show us their full knowledge and have academic level discussions, but I love that we have few of them that somehow manage to trick the algorithm and educate us while being palatable to advertisers.
You cannot judge a language skill ONLY by its native pronunciation, I can see it in a daily basis here in France. Some have a lot more vocabulary than other and some makes grammar mistakes even if they sound perfectly native.
Natives almost always make grammatical errors. It's because they don't care about being correct. They just need to get their point across. When you learn a new language, that level of comfort eludes you. You're always conscious about the correctness and appropriateness.
I have friends who majored in Japanese in university and won Japanese Government scholarships to study in post-graduate levels in Japan. One has a PhD with dissertation about Japanese literature during the Heian period which is very old. Even if these people don't sound like native speakers I think we can say they are very skilled in Japanese than most UA-camrs including those that have good accents.
Conversely, we can also say that Yuta’s English is actually better than many native English speakers for the same reasons. Being good in a language really comes down to how much effort you put into mastering that language, native tongue or not.
Oh man this part was excellent, you had me dying Yuta! "I think hes read alot of hen... japanese manga with complex story lines and advanced vocabulary." 😂 😆 😂 😆 😂
What he says about bilingual people is 100% accurate, I was born and raised in America but my mom only spoke to me in Portuguese, I used to go to Brazil every summer aswell although my accent is absolutely terrible, Joey's japanese is the outcome of high effort into studying and practice, he has all my respect
For English speakers, there isn't any pronunciation difference for those words in their language, so they're just going to have to pay closer attention.
You're definitely 英語 上手, Yuta! 😄 But seriously, your English is fantastic 👍 I really enjoyed this little trio of videos! Your first video, Dogen's response, and now your response to the response 😁
I hope everyone knows Dogen was likely joking and not making a real point with that being rude lol (But still enjoyed this video and the great points made)
Yeah, I worked for a Japanese company in London. My coworkers were from Japan but they had a position for fluent Japanese and English speakers. I got the job but later on my boss told me that some Japanese people who grew up in the UK applied for the job but actually their formal Japanese wasn't too good and they thought they would be ok because they are native speakers of Japanese. I on the other hand, knew I wasn't a native speaker and prepared a lot before the interview. And for this reason, I got the job instead of them.
Don't be too hard on your English Yuta. It's really very good. Obviously I don't know the extent of your skills, but just watching your videos, you can definitely speak with fluidity and without a strong accent. I don't know all the correct linguistics terms, but foreign speakers with a strong accent will sometimes replace sounds with similar sounds from their native language and change word structures. (For example, Japanese speakers will often add u sounds between consonants, since Japanese doesn't really do consonant clusters) You don't do any of that. The source of your accent is mainly a slightly different rhythm and the sounds are slightly off. Not replaces, but just ever so slightly off. And quite honestly, this is about as good as you can expect without huge amounts of effort. The slightly off sounds are almost impossible to change, since it is literally impacted by your physiology. The jaw grows in a way that makes certain sounds possible, but locks you out of others. And rhythm is very hard to define, since there is such a big difference even between native speakers. I can tell that your rhythm isn't a native one, but I couldn't tell you why. Overall, though, you pronunciation and expression is very good and anything that outs you as a non-native speaker is super hard to change. And who cares, anyway. You are perfectly understandable and easy to listen to.
Thank you for this Yuta-san! I can speak three languages (Bisaya, English, and Tagalog). My native tongue is Bisaya, which is one of 120+ languages/dialects in the Philippines. However, my reading comprehension in Bisaya is at elementary level. Apart from using Bisaya in communicating verbally in my day-to-day life, I have no use for it in reading, as 99% of things around me is in English. For example, product labels, instructions, newspapers, road signage, menus, etc etc are in English. Even our laws our written in English! Even though I am a native speaker of Bisaya, my reading comprehension is very low. With English, I'm at C2 level of proficiency. According to friends and classmates, I speak with an American twang. My reading comprehension in English is quite advanced. Therefore, just because a person is a native speaker of a certain language, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are more proficient with it compared to non-native speakers.
If I received money every time I saw a comment referring to local languages of the Philippines or Indonesia as dialects... I'd be a millionaire by now. Considering your use of "languages/dialects", it seems you know better than to call them dialects, so I advise you to avoid even referring to them as dialects when mutual intelligibility between most Philippine languages is tenuous at best.
As someone who lives in a country that is multiracial (which is Malaysia), the accent changes when speaking English with a certain race. So to me accent doesn't really matter when I speak in English.
As long as communication works, who cares? There isn't much to get too concerned about. Even within native language speakers in the same country there are accents, or the case you mention of race, like ya, in the US you can usually tell just by listening if the person is white or black, not always but there is more often than not there is a noticeable difference. As well as regional accents you can kinda get a feel for.
your accent is based on your first language, not race. Someone who speaks a language natively will have habits that occur when he tries to speak English and so on.
2:02 i couldnt relate to this more I am 100% chinese and have spoken chinese pretty much all my life I am what you would call a native speaker HOWEVER, i studied UK syllabi, mainly spoke in english, consumed english and japanese media, and never use my chinese outside of daily conversations Even though i can speak the language fluently my proficiency of chinese is less than a high schooler, and theres nothing wrong with that, especially when you know more than 2 languages
I didn't think you were rude about Joey at all, and I'm American and don't hear an accent in Joey's Japanese. But he grew up speaking English, so it's natural to wonder whether he has an accent. Not rude.
@@Name-jw4sj a perfect pronunciation has no flair to it originating from the speaker's usual language. Perfect pronunciation can be learned and therefore mentioning any hint of an accent could be taken as an insult to the speaker's proficiency
@@JoshFlynn101 If a person gets insulted for having an accent, then that person needs to grow up. Nothing wrong with having an accent, and it shouldn't "feel like an insult".
Tbh Yuta your English pronunciation is some of the best I've seen from a native Japanese speaker, hell even supposed English-native characters in films like Shin Godzilla aren't quite as good.
ナイス、ありがとう I am not a native Japanese speaker, however I am a mixed Japanese, Filipino American. You make a lot of great points. 一生懸命勉強して、頑張ってください I watch Japanese youtubers that vlog real life situations such as going to a tailor, going to the market or ramen shop putting both english and katakana, kanji subtitles to learn Japanese through real life, everyday situations in Japan. そうた It is very important to not give up on learning Japanese even when it gets difficult. Always do your best. Thank you Yuta-sensei. An important lesson I learned on my Japanese learning journey is keep trying even when you make mistakes while learning Japanese 頑張ってください
Joey The Anime Man's Original Japanese speakings sound great to my ears. He's good whenever he talks in Original Japanese. Akidearest on the other hand, I feel like she's just started learning the language.
Hahaha yes this is the best kind of "beefing", I'm so glad I subbed to you guys. The end of his video had me rolling, I just assumed it would go on for another couple minutes so when it cut I couldn't stop laughing. And now Yuta watched and responded to it in kind... This is great, it's like Electroboom + Steve Mould, I love it.
I don't think Dogen meant it literally when he said it's rude to question Joey's accent. It's more of a compliment, as in his Japanese is so good that it's even rude to ask question it.
I know what you mean Yuta, about the “stressed” sounding Japanese. I’d even venture to say that, at least on tv, Dave Spector and Daniel Kahl have elements of this in their speaking as well. Don’t get me wrong, they are both (obviously) very fluent in Japanese and speak very naturally. However, there is a certain quality to their timbre and rhythm that is different that a native speaker. I’m pretty sure I have the same problem despite being considered “fluent” (generally indistinguishable on the phone) and having lived (studied and worked) in Japan for some time. This is of course only being made worse by having moved back to the US with reduced daily usage of and exposure to Japanese language. Anyway, I enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing more.
Am I...wait...am I witnessing the start of some kind of Japanese Language Speaker beef?! I'm used to seeing this in rap/hip-hop, but this is a first for me in the language game. Will they have a language battle?!
@@SelcraigClimbs oh I was around, just this one seemed more ridiculous to reference a possible "beef." Just the notion of language learning being on the same level as battle rapping and beefs is hilarious to me.
I couldn’t help bursting out laughing when you dropped a “jouzu” bomb on dogen at the end, even though it’s clear you meant it in a nice way. I appreciate your content and still enjoy your book - thanks Yuta san!
Dogen said he uses or used scripts for his Japanese skits, and that his real life Japanese is not as smooth. I heard him in more or less natural contexts and that’s not native level, very proficient though.
I think you video is on point about different aspects of language and learning a language. For example I have been told my French pronunciation is very good and correct (by Parisian standards). But I know my vocabulary, especially having not had to speak it daily for more than 30 years, is terrible. If pressed I would have to search for words I want to communicate.
This is really interesting as a psychology student my professor taught us that from the psychology view the *"critical period"* of language development is from the year 7 to 12 (in most countries it means elementary school) what does that mean is that it's better to only focus on teaching the native language to kids in those years because if they don't and instead get taught a language that's not a native in their country for example: in my country we only have one official language and it's Arabic if the kids in my country studied/went abroad or studied in American schools in my country they would NEVER be able to catch up a perfect Arabic and would never be able to speak like a native no matter how many years pass by even if they're still in my country and never left it it would still be impossible for them and they would face so many difficulties regarding the language. But there's also an exception to this case and it's when the country has a 2+ or more official languages for example in Morocco and Algeria the official languages are Arabic and barber another example is Canada's official languages are English and French that means your family, your neighbours, your school, the grocery shop staff, the workplace, your boss, your colleagues, the random strangers walking down the steer they all speak both of the official language so in this case it's better and for the best to teach the kids both of languages during the "critical period"
This is fascinating. My family fits this scenario almost perfectly. My brother is 5 years older than me and we both were raised with English and Indonesian. But when I was 6, and he was 11, we moved from Indonesia to USA, so we didn't speak Indonesian as much. After about a year after moving, I almost completely lost my ability to speak Indonesian, whereas my brother, can still communicate effectively with it, 20+ years later.
hey yuta! just a little advice regarding your videos' sound: try to edit the sound clips to create crossfades between each clip (and also fade in and fade out for each clip). otherwise, you end up having clicks and pops whenever a sound clip ends and the next one begins, as i could hear during this video. it's an easy thing to do so you might be able to do it with whatever program you use for the video editing! cheers and keep it up
i mean who really cares , in the end its amazing you can communicate in more than 1 language . Me being Portuguese , lived in England for 11 years and currently in Japan because of my husband (been lerning japanese for the past 6 years) i feel like i naturally express myself in different languages in different situations, and im just glad i can communicate and understand in these 3 languages no matter how fluent it sounds when it comes to Japanese . As long as we can understand each other who cares about "this person is better at japanese / better at english than this person " literally it can put people off while its really fun and a blessing thing to be able to understand other languages to any extend .
I really like this video and how you're opening up the discussion that native speakers are not necessary better than a more proficient non-native speaker who exerted more effort and/or spent more time learning the language, especially if they don't use it that often. My native language is a local language of Sumatra but because I was born and grew up in the Philippines, I only ever speak my native language when I'm speaking with my mum's side of the family. I use Filipino and English at work, so even if those are my second and third languages, respectively, I have considerably more time put into practising and actually using both languages. I spent considerably more time at school and work than I ever did at home, so it makes sense. Sometimes I even try to apply Filipino grammar (more complex) to my native language (simpler grammar), which makes my speaking in my native language very unnatural. It's also the consequence of living far away from a place where I can expose myself to more people speaking it; if I lived in Sumatra for example I'd be speaking it far better, then probably have Bahasa Indonesia as my second language instead (which given the grammar being more similar, would lead to much less confusion in my own head.) That said, people considered native speakers of a language can sound less natural or even be less eloquent at it than a second or third language speaker, depending on a host of factors.
I’m from Singapore and I speak English and Mandarin. I consume a lot of Chinese media and read novels. I also talk on the phone with friends from Hongkong and China but they still mention that I have a Singaporean accent in my Mandarin when they listen carefully. So my level of mandarin will definitely not be their level since our classes here are taught in English.
Agree with everything you say, EXCEPT that you think your English isn’t as good as Dogen’s Japanese. It absolutely is. I’ve mentioned before on a different UA-camr’s video that as a native English speaker, there’s just something about Dogen’s Japanese accent that sounds foreign to me. And I honestly can’t quite put my finger on what it is. But the manner in which he speaks is the way I’ve heard native Japanese speakers speak. Pauses, thinking noises, interjection sounds, etc. And you do all that too Yuta. Maybe your accent is noticeably foreign, but you still form sentences and use phrasing that natives do and you understand a lot of nuance that a lot of ESL speakers don’t. For example if we go way way way back to Uncle Roger’s original egg fried rice video, of the numerous reactions I saw, you were the only one who got the “what is the BBC?” Joke. That Japanese habit of self-deprecation is making you think you’re not as good as you actually are.
Depending on how you talk to everyone has an accent . when I talked to someone from the Middle East he said he liked my American accent and I wasn't aware that Americans even had an accent, but if you grow up and hear only a certain type of dialect makes sense that somebody else will have an accent from your perspective. You weren't being rude he should have used a different synonym 😊
@@Miglow I was going to say! New Jersey accent, West Coast accent, etc. Similar to the UK where I think the accent is thicker the more north you go from London.
@@village_mayor I'm from Texas and this state alone has several major accents, and only a few are even remotely similar to the deep Southern drawl found in Georgia, which is how Texans are often stereotypically portrayed.
the bilingual part is very true indeed. i only speak primary schooler level in my "native" language, because my parents never made me learn it beyond the basics of speaking, also analphabet in that language. I have a slight language barrier with my parents due to this.
I know I am pretty late but JOE INOUE?!?! DAMN. now I miss naruto. his japanese accent is really good and it really sounds native. i even thought he was a japanese until i watched his guitar tutorial.
This is very much true. I grew up in Germany to a Russian family, my German is obviously perfect as it is my native language, but we also spoke a lot of Russian at home so I am also a native speaker of that, although I have not been to Russia and rarely communicate with people outside my family in Russian and when I do speak Russian to members of my family I add German words when a Russian one doesn't come to mind. English on the other hand I learned from a young age but not as a baby so I don't speak it natively, but I am very proficient in it (C2). Although I know English very well, I still speak with a slight accent and lack practice speaking it on a daily basis. Russian on the other hand I have a pretty perfect pronunciation as I am a native speaker, but I do have a sort of awkwardness to the way I speak as I forget words and make grammatical mistakes.
I have noticed the same. My English is not native and I do neither sound native nor is my grammar perfect. But there were many occasions where I had less trouble understanding complex dialogues than my American friends and, occasionally, I had to even explain the meaning of a few words. Keep in mind that at age 20 I could barely speak at all yet.
I'm not a native speaker in both, however I'm bilingual in English and Spanish as I've been speaking and learning my second language since I was 5 years old. I have better Spanish than some of the native/heritage speakers I grew up with.
I'm not sure if I'm missing the context of this video, as I suppose Yuta's reply could be super dry sarcasm, but... I took Dogen's initial reply as just being a sarcastic build up to his ultimate punch-like of being "jozu". Now I don't know who, if anyone was joking or serious...
My native language is Dutch and I speak standard Dutch without any accent. My sister on the other hand sounds like a foreigner who grew up bilingually. In other words speaking (how the native majority) is speaking, is a pretty complex topic lol
Learn Japanese with Yuta: bit.ly/3DHun6S
Yuta, is Japanese language similar to Hindi/Urdu?
@@name3583 No.
@@name3583 there's some interesting overlap with Tamil
@@name3583 Hmpf baka question
I can easily detect an accent from Dogen. His enunciation is a bit awkward.
A discussion between an American speaking Japanese and a Japanese speaking English. What a time to be alive.
lmao 😂😂
Man, I love the way they "roast" each other without being offensive. The world would be a better place if there were more Yuta-sans and Dogen-sans.
Passive-aggression yes. Try the working world. It's very much like this already.
sans
Dog-sans?
@@joshhamester World is plenty of passive-aggression. Although Yuta and Dogen were definitely not being passive aggressive. It isn't even roasting. It's just a bit of a mutual joke at best.
@@Fx_Explains it's plural ffs. You clearly know what they mean
When dealing with Dogen, you have to assume he 1. Will overpraise everyone else 2. Will ensure he is the butt of the joke 3. Will ensure there is a joke. So, I don't think he was really putting down his own abilities, so much as just doing his usual routine.
True
Yuta does make a good point about native speakers here. I myself am bilingual, I speak both English and Spanish. However because I learned Spanish first, and spoke it for a few years I’m considered a Native Spanish speaker. However my Spanish isn’t as good as your average native Spanish speaker, since I never learned much Spanish growing up, writing that is. So I never got to expand my vocabulary when it came to talking with other people. So typically my Spanish can come off as that of a non native speaker to other native speakers. Great video on Yuta’s end.
You better improve it, in almost every Hispanic country you will be made fun of if you can't speak it properly, are you Spanish, Mexican, Argentine...? What's your background?
Oh man, I know that feeling. Native Afrikaans with English as a second language, but my Afrikaans has been getting progressively worse for years and my English better. So as such, my Afrikaans ability is not 'native'.
@@isaac4273 I was born in the US, and my parents are both from peru.
@@reflex9238 cool! Well, just remember that avocado is "aguacate" in Spanish
@@isaac4273 I know they call it palta in Peru. I grew up in a Spanish community with lots of different types of Hispanics. So I know how to communicate in what i can describe as, standard Spanish in the community.
This is just a guess on my part, but I've always felt like Dogen's "stiffness" in speaking is somewhat intentional, like he speaks unnaturally slowly in order to enunciate properly, especially in his educational videos. Some of the best language teachers I've had do a similar thing. But it may very well also be that I'm thinking about something else and don't really have a good enough Japanese ear to recognize the stiffness that Yuta is talking about. Either way, it's fun to see this friendly banter between the guys.
I'm not sure, but maybe because he spent a lot of time studying words separately to master their pitch accent which lead to pronouncing sentences with "exaggerated" pauses to the native ear, I think if he tried to speak faster without paying attention to pitch accents it would sound smoother but not necessarily correct.
This is just a guess on my part too. Lol.
Yea sure 😆
@@oban2259 Dogen has also said in a video long ago, he intentionally speaks pitch perfect on purpose and it takes a long time to film his videos because of it. When he speaks Japanese in interviews, it is very different and not stiff at all. I don't remember which video it was but it was a couple of years ago.
Yeah, I think what are you mention is a "colloquial" speech, munching sounds "on the fly" - it is actually should happen before you speak next word (in every language, not just English). I think Yutasan understand the concept, since the same "skill" in his Japanese is top notch, absolutely smooth colloquial speech (even far too fast for understanding for an average Japanese student). But it is extremely hard to replicate if you know 3 or more languages (Language teachers tend to learn more than 2, once you fluent in 2 - you become addictive usually and start learning a new one ;)). I think you can achieve it with only 2 languages, when you speak both of them at the same time all the time. Like without "alright now let's switch to English". Imagine daily conversations in a crowd with English-speaker and your native-speaker at the same time. When you add a third or more languages I think it becomes near impossible to do, your brain and mouth-muscles will stumble here and there for sure (especially if we are talking about languages from a different "sound" group).
I'm half Japanese, but mostly grew up in the USA so take what I say with a grain of salt. I can hear the "stiffness" in Dogen's speech, but it's not bad. It's almost like he speaks too perfectly.
It would be something like always perfectly saying "I am going to go to the bathroom" instead of using a more natural flow like "I'm gonna go to the bathroom."
英語すごく上手ですね、ゆうたさん
rip
In Japanese, in this context, this is an insult!
PS: As some people don't get the joke on the joke. I will explain it for the casual reader.
At the end of the video, Yuta-san is inviting to call his English "Jouzu", exactly because it would normally be not proper to invite such compliments in Japanese society.
Jan-Willems comment can be seen as a joking reply, because he uses inappropriate register/politeness level. The wording 英語すごく上手ですね、ゆうたさん would be appropriate towards children, somebody of lower social status or between women, but not between men of equal social status.
From a coworker I would expect/say something like 英語すごいよ。英語上手だ。
PSS: As Yuta has another old video I think where he explains how inappropriate use of register in Japanese is used to express insults.
@@michaelrenper796 Tell me you didn't watch until the end, without telling me you didn't watch until the end.
@@Bianca_Toeps Stating a fact for the benefit of the casual visitor to this prominent comment?
Does it somehow become more or less true after watching the video?
@@michaelrenper796 Yes, this can come across as judging, and asserting that you also know the subject in question well enough to judge him. Depending on the context, it's basically the same as saying "I'm better than you".
Even Native Speakers who grew up immersed in a language and studied it in school can experience fluctuating skill levels after an extended time of not regularly using the language. I'm a US American who grew up in Japan, learning to speak at the age of 4, attended public Japanese schools and used it continuously until moving back to the States in my mid teens. Japanese people could not tell I wasn't Japanese when speaking on the phone, and I passed the highest level of the JLPT exam with a good score. For a long time, I felt more comfortable speaking Japanese than I did English (which I spoke at home with my parents, and learned early academic English skills from my mother). Yet, having lived in the US for over 20 years now and with few opportunities to have conversations in Japanese, I find myself frustratingly rusty in my vocabulary recall and general ease of constructing sentences in spite of pronunciation and grammar still being fully intuitive. I read Japanese books (prose and manga), listen to Japanese music, watch anime, and type in Japanese to my Japanese friends on Facebook, but it's truly not the same as real-time conversation and uses totally different skills.
it's absolutely natural. any skill not constantly honed - including your native language - can get rusty. I've lived in my home country Germany until I was 31, but now have been living in India - where I mostly talk English in day to day life and some Hindi - for almost a decade. Whenever visiting back home it takes me a week until I feel comfortable in German language structure again. It's my native language, but now I find myself peppering it with English or even Hindi phrases that just seem to bring accross a point more quickly and accurately and finding the German equivalent takes a lot of effort. It's frustrating, because I used to speak a very high level of German once due to the fact that I used to just read a lot. I'm also trying to keep my native language a bit alive by reading and listening to German news, but without daily interaction, it just takes a backseat. Your brain will keep whatever it needs more frequently and more spontaneously on a more instant recall priority. Good news is, that doesn't mean your prior language skill is completely gone, it just shifted from active to passive competency from where it can migrate back to active more easily again if you end up needing to use it more again. language skills - even for your native - are never fixed, they always evolve.
your outro's never fail to impress me, the way you connect your lessons to the topic is hilariously cool!
Yuta, I'm glad you acknowledged the joke. I thought it was hilarious but mostly because I felt like his entire intention behind making video was just to make that single joke.
I would really be interested in seeing you both do a video or stream together!
Can't wait to hear Dogen's response to this video
and after that
"can't wait to hear yuta react dogen's response"
We don't need to wait because he is good. 🤣
I love how these two incorporate their jokes into their videos that I almost completely forget for a second that they weren't actually being serious with some of their points given 😅
"he has been reading a lot of hen.. japanese manga" oof xD
LOL I thought I was the only person who heard that haha. I had to scroll down way too far to find a comment on this
He's not wrong either lmao
"...Hen-...Japanese Manga with complex storylines..." - Yuta-san, this had me laughing very hard all by myself looking like a crazy person!
Same here lmao
@@TonnieD024 guitar buddies :)
Same
so true
I honestly missed it the first time LMAO
I love the recurring jokes in this community, be it 上手 or "they can only do what they can do"
Uete moment
what is the opposite of jouzo
@@republicadominicana8589 下手 "Heta"
What's "they can only do what they can do" from/mean?
@@MrNikolidas more like hater
It's the same thing with the Arabic language. I speak the Iraqi Arabic, but when I encounter an Egyptian person, I try to speak using their dialect because mine is hard to follow, and usually they would ask me if I'm either half Egyptian or an Egyptian born in USA because they can still detect a non-native Egyptian dialect in my conversation. When I speak my northern Iraqi Arabic dialect and switch to the most common one, I do sound awkward. Since I studied both English and Spanish at the same time in Iraq, my accent got lost in the middle and most people cannot figure out my ethnicity. I think it is fun and makes you unique and I never get offended by people questioning my ethnicity based on my accent.
I love how Dogen's whole video was just a long buildup to the 日本語上手 (nihongo jouzu) meme joke lol
can you please explain that to me? Is it bad to be told 日本語上手？
@@masterspark9880 I think it depends of the person, but Japanese people will praise many things without truly meaning it, and the joke is that if a native speaker tells you 日本語上手, then you are not fluent yet because they would just speak with you naturally instead of praising your Japanese ability. However, don’t worry, it’s a joke/meme, and I think some may actually mean it if they say it to you
日本後上手 ははは
I'd say your accent is the only part of your English that singles you out as a non native speaker, Yuta. Apart from that, your English is nearly flawless to my ear. And your accent is more endearing than an impediment to understanding.
Great point on speaking a language natively but not perfectly. I grew up in Canada but spoke Portuguese with my grandparents. My Portuguese accent is definitely native level but my vocabulary is definitely not. So when I went to Portugal and spoke with staff at stores and restaurants, they’d be totally confused when I couldn’t understand something, because I sound like I SHOULD understand.
Same. My Japanese situation is the same as your Portuguese. My vocabulary is limited to range of vocab used by my parents and their friends here in Canada. So it's the vocab they most commonly use everyday in a casual setting. It's also generational since they don't use the latest vocab younger age groups use in Japan.
@@yuko604 oh yeah! Good point… slang and also swearing are not something you get that much from parents and grandparents.
@@yuko604 You also have the generational politeness that comes with it.
Especially in Japanese where your vocab is so different when addressing your elders.
I can't imagine talking to my friends the way I talk to my grandparents... :)
As a bilingual living in a western country, my Cantonese will always never as good as someone from HK because I don't get to speak it every day. So even though people say my Canto is natural (lived in HK when I was young), there will always be words or little nuances that results in an accent. And that's okay because I am blessed I can speak two languages, even if the second language is a little rusty. People shouldn't judge one another on their accent because everyone has linguistic capabilities based on what language they were taught as a child. In fact, I am impressed if a gaijin can speak some Canto for example, because the way you curl your tongue or subtle intonations are very difficult to master.
That interaction between them was amazing, Dogen sketch made Yuta go deeper into the subject, and there's so much depth on it, unfortunately UA-cam is not designed to those people show us their full knowledge and have academic level discussions, but I love that we have few of them that somehow manage to trick the algorithm and educate us while being palatable to advertisers.
You cannot judge a language skill ONLY by its native pronunciation, I can see it in a daily basis here in France.
Some have a lot more vocabulary than other and some makes grammar mistakes even if they sound perfectly native.
Natives almost always make grammatical errors. It's because they don't care about being correct. They just need to get their point across. When you learn a new language, that level of comfort eludes you. You're always conscious about the correctness and appropriateness.
J'avou ke le fransé es trè difisil.
Bon et sinon frérot, bien ou bien?
@@w花b Tranquille et toi ?
Well true but in this context they all had perfect grammar so he didnt comment on the grammar.
I have friends who majored in Japanese in university and won Japanese Government scholarships to study in post-graduate levels in Japan. One has a PhD with dissertation about Japanese literature during the Heian period which is very old. Even if these people don't sound like native speakers I think we can say they are very skilled in Japanese than most UA-camrs including those that have good accents.
Conversely, we can also say that Yuta’s English is actually better than many native English speakers for the same reasons. Being good in a language really comes down to how much effort you put into mastering that language, native tongue or not.
Oh man this part was excellent, you had me dying Yuta! "I think hes read alot of hen... japanese manga with complex story lines and advanced vocabulary." 😂 😆 😂 😆 😂
What he says about bilingual people is 100% accurate, I was born and raised in America but my mom only spoke to me in Portuguese, I used to go to Brazil every summer aswell although my accent is absolutely terrible, Joey's japanese is the outcome of high effort into studying and practice, he has all my respect
would love to see a Yuta/Dogen collab video someday!
I love this type of content. I hope it doesn’t end here.
Native level is definitely relative. Plenty of native US English speakers can't even differentiate between there, their, and they're etc.
That's so true lol
Plenty? I'd say it's at least 80% of the god damn population. Non-native speakers have better grammar for crying out loud xD
@@MarkusAndersen96 true lol
For English speakers, there isn't any pronunciation difference for those words in their language, so they're just going to have to pay closer attention.
US English is already a bastardised version of the original language. So don't hold it against them.
You're definitely 英語 上手, Yuta! 😄 But seriously, your English is fantastic 👍
I really enjoyed this little trio of videos! Your first video, Dogen's response, and now your response to the response 😁
I hope everyone knows Dogen was likely joking and not making a real point with that being rude lol (But still enjoyed this video and the great points made)
@@DarkDragonSlayer cool
@@DarkDragonSlayer subjective.
@@DarkDragonSlayer It's not a contest. I haven't watched much of Joey's stuff but I presume they have very different focus.
Yeah, the vast majority of Dogen's yt vids are basically stand-up comedy
@@DarkDragonSlayer you are embarassing yourself
Yeah, I worked for a Japanese company in London. My coworkers were from Japan but they had a position for fluent Japanese and English speakers. I got the job but later on my boss told me that some Japanese people who grew up in the UK applied for the job but actually their formal Japanese wasn't too good and they thought they would be ok because they are native speakers of Japanese. I on the other hand, knew I wasn't a native speaker and prepared a lot before the interview. And for this reason, I got the job instead of them.
I use to speak Japanese as a young child but forgot the language in it's entirety where moving from Japan to the states. All languages are beautiful😊
Kind of the same with me except I can still speak Japanese but have forgotten a lot of the reading and writing.
@@DarkDragonSlayer not sure who you are replying to but I do.
@@DarkDragonSlayer As for me, unfortunately I do not anymore.
@@specialk9999 That's still great you can still speak Japanese ☺️
@@DarkDragonSlayer true, lol
Don't be too hard on your English Yuta. It's really very good.
Obviously I don't know the extent of your skills, but just watching your videos, you can definitely speak with fluidity and without a strong accent.
I don't know all the correct linguistics terms, but foreign speakers with a strong accent will sometimes replace sounds with similar sounds from their native language and change word structures. (For example, Japanese speakers will often add u sounds between consonants, since Japanese doesn't really do consonant clusters) You don't do any of that. The source of your accent is mainly a slightly different rhythm and the sounds are slightly off. Not replaces, but just ever so slightly off.
And quite honestly, this is about as good as you can expect without huge amounts of effort. The slightly off sounds are almost impossible to change, since it is literally impacted by your physiology. The jaw grows in a way that makes certain sounds possible, but locks you out of others.
And rhythm is very hard to define, since there is such a big difference even between native speakers. I can tell that your rhythm isn't a native one, but I couldn't tell you why.
Overall, though, you pronunciation and expression is very good and anything that outs you as a non-native speaker is super hard to change. And who cares, anyway. You are perfectly understandable and easy to listen to.
I’m glad Joe Inoue was mentioned here. He’s a very talented UA-camr, musician, and polyglot as well.
I love Joe Inoue too. Really funny and awesome guy. It always seems to be the Joe’s (Joey, Joe, Jō) who are Jozu if you know what I mean :D
Thank you for this Yuta-san! I can speak three languages (Bisaya, English, and Tagalog). My native tongue is Bisaya, which is one of 120+ languages/dialects in the Philippines. However, my reading comprehension in Bisaya is at elementary level. Apart from using Bisaya in communicating verbally in my day-to-day life, I have no use for it in reading, as 99% of things around me is in English. For example, product labels, instructions, newspapers, road signage, menus, etc etc are in English. Even our laws our written in English! Even though I am a native speaker of Bisaya, my reading comprehension is very low. With English, I'm at C2 level of proficiency. According to friends and classmates, I speak with an American twang. My reading comprehension in English is quite advanced. Therefore, just because a person is a native speaker of a certain language, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are more proficient with it compared to non-native speakers.
If I received money every time I saw a comment referring to local languages of the Philippines or Indonesia as dialects... I'd be a millionaire by now.
Considering your use of "languages/dialects", it seems you know better than to call them dialects, so I advise you to avoid even referring to them as dialects when mutual intelligibility between most Philippine languages is tenuous at best.
As someone who lives in a country that is multiracial (which is Malaysia), the accent changes when speaking English with a certain race. So to me accent doesn't really matter when I speak in English.
As long as communication works, who cares? There isn't much to get too concerned about. Even within native language speakers in the same country there are accents, or the case you mention of race, like ya, in the US you can usually tell just by listening if the person is white or black, not always but there is more often than not there is a noticeable difference. As well as regional accents you can kinda get a feel for.
Sama juga kalau cakap bahasa Melayu. Slanga berubah ikut bangsa pendengar
@@aman-hl9re There are a lot of Malaysians who can't even speaks BM fluently. If u know what I'm saying, u will know. 😂
As you guys often say, "no one speaks BM the way you're expected to in the SPM BM essay"
your accent is based on your first language, not race. Someone who speaks a language natively will have habits that occur when he tries to speak English and so on.
“I think he read a lot of Hen- Japanese manga …” made me rofl 🤣
2:02 i couldnt relate to this more
I am 100% chinese and have spoken chinese pretty much all my life
I am what you would call a native speaker
HOWEVER, i studied UK syllabi, mainly spoke in english, consumed english and japanese media, and never use my chinese outside of daily conversations
Even though i can speak the language fluently my proficiency of chinese is less than a high schooler, and theres nothing wrong with that, especially when you know more than 2 languages
I didn't think you were rude about Joey at all, and I'm American and don't hear an accent in Joey's Japanese. But he grew up speaking English, so it's natural to wonder whether he has an accent. Not rude.
So can someone tell me why it is rude to say someone has an accent?
@@Name-jw4sj could suggest a lack of skill in totally correct pronunciation
@@JoshFlynn101 That is not what having an accent means dude.
@@Name-jw4sj a perfect pronunciation has no flair to it originating from the speaker's usual language. Perfect pronunciation can be learned and therefore mentioning any hint of an accent could be taken as an insult to the speaker's proficiency
@@JoshFlynn101 If a person gets insulted for having an accent, then that person needs to grow up. Nothing wrong with having an accent, and it shouldn't "feel like an insult".
Tbh Yuta your English pronunciation is some of the best I've seen from a native Japanese speaker, hell even supposed English-native characters in films like Shin Godzilla aren't quite as good.
“Just US Japan, so win-win!”
Are u referring to Ishihara Satomi? I think she's okay.
Ball licka
Dogen's humor is exquisitely refined.
If you say so...I find it nauseating
It's always nice to see an argument being respectful
I think we miss that a lot nowadays
ナイス、ありがとう I am not a native Japanese speaker, however I am a mixed Japanese, Filipino American. You make a lot of great points. 一生懸命勉強して、頑張ってください I watch Japanese youtubers that vlog real life situations such as going to a tailor, going to the market or ramen shop putting both english and katakana, kanji subtitles to learn Japanese through real life, everyday situations in Japan. そうた It is very important to not give up on learning Japanese even when it gets difficult. Always do your best. Thank you Yuta-sensei. An important lesson I learned on my Japanese learning journey is keep trying even when you make mistakes while learning Japanese 頑張ってください
Can't wait to see Dogen's response to the response to the response
Joey The Anime Man's Original Japanese speakings sound great to my ears. He's good whenever he talks in Original Japanese. Akidearest on the other hand, I feel like she's just started learning the language.
Kasisimula nga lang ni Agnes mag-aral ng Hapon. At least that's what Google Translate told me ;)
lol
@@cookiemonsterhacker3131 Ariel said that Agnes (Akidearest's real name) just started to learn Japanese.
@@cookiemonsterhacker3131 Also, Ariel and I are both Filipinos.
@@cookiemonsterhacker3131 Just like Akidearest. She's 100% Filipino. She can't speak Tagalog but can understand it well.
Hahaha yes this is the best kind of "beefing", I'm so glad I subbed to you guys. The end of his video had me rolling, I just assumed it would go on for another couple minutes so when it cut I couldn't stop laughing.
And now Yuta watched and responded to it in kind... This is great, it's like Electroboom + Steve Mould, I love it.
“He sounds like he hasn’t even left Japan” killed me💀😂
now, dogen's reaction to yuta reacting to him reacting to yuta
I don't think Dogen meant it literally when he said it's rude to question Joey's accent. It's more of a compliment, as in his Japanese is so good that it's even rude to ask question it.
Next from Dogen: My response to Yuta's video about my response to Yuta's video (featuring Joey The Anime Man)
I know what you mean Yuta, about the “stressed” sounding Japanese. I’d even venture to say that, at least on tv, Dave Spector and Daniel Kahl have elements of this in their speaking as well. Don’t get me wrong, they are both (obviously) very fluent in Japanese and speak very naturally. However, there is a certain quality to their timbre and rhythm that is different that a native speaker. I’m pretty sure I have the same problem despite being considered “fluent” (generally indistinguishable on the phone) and having lived (studied and worked) in Japan for some time. This is of course only being made worse by having moved back to the US with reduced daily usage of and exposure to Japanese language. Anyway, I enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing more.
Whenever I watch your videos I always forget you're a native Japanese speaker
So I would say yes, 英語上手ですね
It was a joke
Am I...wait...am I witnessing the start of some kind of Japanese Language Speaker beef?! I'm used to seeing this in rap/hip-hop, but this is a first for me in the language game.
Will they have a language battle?!
Where were you when pitch accent caused a scene?
@@SelcraigClimbs oh I was around, just this one seemed more ridiculous to reference a possible "beef."
Just the notion of language learning being on the same level as battle rapping and beefs is hilarious to me.
Time for a Japanese poetry battle!
@@Friend- はい!!!!
I love this low-key war that broke out between these two absolutely wholesome UA-camrs I love, over something so minor…
I couldn’t help bursting out laughing when you dropped a “jouzu” bomb on dogen at the end, even though it’s clear you meant it in a nice way. I appreciate your content and still enjoy your book - thanks Yuta san!
「上手」からぬけられない悔しさは両方から伝わってくる🥲。私は共感と尊重しかないね。
Yuta and Dogen are just awesome
I'm half Filipino half Japanese but grew up with japanese but lived in America. People never notice I didn't grow up in Japan.
Dogen said he uses or used scripts for his Japanese skits, and that his real life Japanese is not as smooth. I heard him in more or less natural contexts and that’s not native level, very proficient though.
Can't wait for your reaction to Dogen's reaction to this
Very kind, funny and informative video. Thank you.
I can't wait for Dogen's reaction to this in 6 months!
3:39 Yuta with the Shaft-style Monogatari editing. I respect that.
6:23 "Sexbooks"
That's a freudian slip if I've ever heard one
I can't wait for Dogen's response to Yuta's response to Dogen's comment about Yuta's video!
Meanwhile, Joey is probably profoundly confused about why everybody is so interested in his speaking patterns. If he's even aware of it.
NOT THE “HEN-“
I really enjoy this channel. Thank you!
OMG I love you Yuta-san for referencing Komi-san
I think you video is on point about different aspects of language and learning a language. For example I have been told my French pronunciation is very good and correct (by Parisian standards). But I know my vocabulary, especially having not had to speak it daily for more than 30 years, is terrible. If pressed I would have to search for words I want to communicate.
This is really interesting as a psychology student my professor taught us that from the psychology view the *"critical period"* of language development is from the year 7 to 12 (in most countries it means elementary school) what does that mean is that it's better to only focus on teaching the native language to kids in those years because if they don't and instead get taught a language that's not a native in their country for example: in my country we only have one official language and it's Arabic if the kids in my country studied/went abroad or studied in American schools in my country they would NEVER be able to catch up a perfect Arabic and would never be able to speak like a native no matter how many years pass by even if they're still in my country and never left it it would still be impossible for them and they would face so many difficulties regarding the language.
But there's also an exception to this case and it's when the country has a 2+ or more official languages for example in Morocco and Algeria the official languages are Arabic and barber another example is Canada's official languages are English and French that means your family, your neighbours, your school, the grocery shop staff, the workplace, your boss, your colleagues, the random strangers walking down the steer they all speak both of the official language so in this case it's better and for the best to teach the kids both of languages during the "critical period"
This is fascinating. My family fits this scenario almost perfectly. My brother is 5 years older than me and we both were raised with English and Indonesian. But when I was 6, and he was 11, we moved from Indonesia to USA, so we didn't speak Indonesian as much. After about a year after moving, I almost completely lost my ability to speak Indonesian, whereas my brother, can still communicate effectively with it, 20+ years later.
I'm now interested in hearing people speak Japanese with various non-Japanese accents, like Welsh, Arabic and Swahili.
I love you
Joe Inoue, who was featured in the video, does that type of stuff if you’re interested.
hey yuta! just a little advice regarding your videos' sound: try to edit the sound clips to create crossfades between each clip (and also fade in and fade out for each clip). otherwise, you end up having clicks and pops whenever a sound clip ends and the next one begins, as i could hear during this video. it's an easy thing to do so you might be able to do it with whatever program you use for the video editing! cheers and keep it up
I LOVE the hen- JOKES 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yuta youre the best
Yutasan, your English is very 上手🙌🏼🙌🏼💪🏼💪🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
Next: Dogen's response on Yuta's response on Dogen's... I'm confused...
Glad you mentioned your English pronunciation i was thinking it you are very humble
i mean who really cares , in the end its amazing you can communicate in more than 1 language . Me being Portuguese , lived in England for 11 years and currently in Japan because of my husband (been lerning japanese for the past 6 years) i feel like i naturally express myself in different languages in different situations, and im just glad i can communicate and understand in these 3 languages no matter how fluent it sounds when it comes to Japanese . As long as we can understand each other who cares about "this person is better at japanese / better at english than this person " literally it can put people off while its really fun and a blessing thing to be able to understand other languages to any extend .
I really like this video and how you're opening up the discussion that native speakers are not necessary better than a more proficient non-native speaker who exerted more effort and/or spent more time learning the language, especially if they don't use it that often. My native language is a local language of Sumatra but because I was born and grew up in the Philippines, I only ever speak my native language when I'm speaking with my mum's side of the family. I use Filipino and English at work, so even if those are my second and third languages, respectively, I have considerably more time put into practising and actually using both languages. I spent considerably more time at school and work than I ever did at home, so it makes sense.
Sometimes I even try to apply Filipino grammar (more complex) to my native language (simpler grammar), which makes my speaking in my native language very unnatural. It's also the consequence of living far away from a place where I can expose myself to more people speaking it; if I lived in Sumatra for example I'd be speaking it far better, then probably have Bahasa Indonesia as my second language instead (which given the grammar being more similar, would lead to much less confusion in my own head.)
That said, people considered native speakers of a language can sound less natural or even be less eloquent at it than a second or third language speaker, depending on a host of factors.
At 3:08 "hen-... Japanese manga", I died laughing! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
0:49 Quite a noticeable difference between speaker 1 and 2.
I’m from Singapore and I speak English and Mandarin. I consume a lot of Chinese media and read novels. I also talk on the phone with friends from Hongkong and China but they still mention that I have a Singaporean accent in my Mandarin when they listen carefully. So my level of mandarin will definitely not be their level since our classes here are taught in English.
Now we need Dogen to make a response to Yuta's response of Dogen's original response to Yuta
Agree with everything you say, EXCEPT that you think your English isn’t as good as Dogen’s Japanese. It absolutely is. I’ve mentioned before on a different UA-camr’s video that as a native English speaker, there’s just something about Dogen’s Japanese accent that sounds foreign to me. And I honestly can’t quite put my finger on what it is. But the manner in which he speaks is the way I’ve heard native Japanese speakers speak. Pauses, thinking noises, interjection sounds, etc. And you do all that too Yuta. Maybe your accent is noticeably foreign, but you still form sentences and use phrasing that natives do and you understand a lot of nuance that a lot of ESL speakers don’t. For example if we go way way way back to Uncle Roger’s original egg fried rice video, of the numerous reactions I saw, you were the only one who got the “what is the BBC?” Joke. That Japanese habit of self-deprecation is making you think you’re not as good as you actually are.
5:45 Can anyone give me the name of the site?
Arigatou for mentioning Komi-san, love that anime!
Your joke at the end 😭😭 perfection
I really want to see Yuta on the podcast!
Depending on how you talk to everyone has an accent . when I talked to someone from the Middle East he said he liked my American accent and I wasn't aware that Americans even had an accent, but if you grow up and hear only a certain type of dialect makes sense that somebody else will have an accent from your perspective. You weren't being rude he should have used a different synonym 😊
Of course everyone has an accent. And there isn't just one type of American accent, there are countless regional accents across the country.
@@Miglow I was going to say! New Jersey accent, West Coast accent, etc. Similar to the UK where I think the accent is thicker the more north you go from London.
guess you never watch the movie Fargo, or any other British films.
@@shadowshiro7301 I haven't is Fargo good?😊🤔
@@village_mayor I'm from Texas and this state alone has several major accents, and only a few are even remotely similar to the deep Southern drawl found in Georgia, which is how Texans are often stereotypically portrayed.
the bilingual part is very true indeed. i only speak primary schooler level in my "native" language, because my parents never made me learn it beyond the basics of speaking, also analphabet in that language. I have a slight language barrier with my parents due to this.
I know I am pretty late but JOE INOUE?!?! DAMN. now I miss naruto.
his japanese accent is really good and it really sounds native. i even thought he was a japanese until i watched his guitar tutorial.
This is very much true. I grew up in Germany to a Russian family, my German is obviously perfect as it is my native language, but we also spoke a lot of Russian at home so I am also a native speaker of that, although I have not been to Russia and rarely communicate with people outside my family in Russian and when I do speak Russian to members of my family I add German words when a Russian one doesn't come to mind. English on the other hand I learned from a young age but not as a baby so I don't speak it natively, but I am very proficient in it (C2). Although I know English very well, I still speak with a slight accent and lack practice speaking it on a daily basis. Russian on the other hand I have a pretty perfect pronunciation as I am a native speaker, but I do have a sort of awkwardness to the way I speak as I forget words and make grammatical mistakes.
I have noticed the same. My English is not native and I do neither sound native nor is my grammar perfect. But there were many occasions where I had less trouble understanding complex dialogues than my American friends and, occasionally, I had to even explain the meaning of a few words. Keep in mind that at age 20 I could barely speak at all yet.
the random anime clip at 2:37 i think that character is a native speaker but i'd be clueless if i'd never seen that show before
I'm not a native speaker in both, however I'm bilingual in English and Spanish as I've been speaking and learning my second language since I was 5 years old. I have better Spanish than some of the native/heritage speakers I grew up with.
In my opinion, you become jouzu (unironically) when you're able to make jokes, specifically puns, in the language
I may be late but the hairstyle is fresh !
I'm not sure if I'm missing the context of this video, as I suppose Yuta's reply could be super dry sarcasm, but...
I took Dogen's initial reply as just being a sarcastic build up to his ultimate punch-like of being "jozu".
Now I don't know who, if anyone was joking or serious...
My native language is Dutch and I speak standard Dutch without any accent. My sister on the other hand sounds like a foreigner who grew up bilingually. In other words speaking (how the native majority) is speaking, is a pretty complex topic lol
It's not rude to discuss accent. Thank you for your analysis