I value your perspective. I started learning Ruby just a month ago. For me, the goal isn't so much to secure a job, but rather to develop my own startup projects. Ultimately, it's not the programming language that matters most, it's the problems it helps solve.
To add, Ruby on Rails is ideal for the solopreneur as it allows you to develop quickly. I am not sure there is a better stack for that all things considered. So consider that.
From a learning perspective, I believe Ruby is a more approachable and easier language to comprehend compared to JavaScript. However, when it comes to securing your first job in the programming world, while you may encounter more competition in JavaScript, there are far more opportunities for juniors in that language.
Yes this is probably true. That said, you still learn JavaScript on the Ruby path...so you can still work in it. My first job was Python and JavaScript. Language doesn't matter as much as understanding fundamentals.
Yes Ruby is definitely more pleasurable to work in. Though the foundations path has you learn JS first, and I think that's a good thing given it is ubiquitous in web dev.
I'm glad I stumbled on your video. This is my 10th day of following the Ruby path on TOP. I was wondering how long it took you to complete the entire path? I've reached OOPs now and I now have a fair bit of understanding of how classes and inheritances work. But I still need to dig deeper. Also, I'm practicing a lot with chatgpt as well. If you have any tips on how you practice what you learn, it would be great. My goal from doing TOP is do build plugins for the Sketchup software with Ruby and Sketchup's API. I also want to land a job here in Germany in the web development space. There's loads of jobs in the javascript space but I still want to stick to the ruby on rails path. My goal is achieve a decent level of mastery by end of June and apply for jobs from July. Thanks for your videos and looking forward to more content from you :)
Yes Ruby or JS you will learn the fundamentals you need! So, I skipped some lessons in Ruby path (naughty of me but I was on tight timeline), so I spent about 7 weeks or so learning Ruby before moving to Rails. I did not do Chess, Connect4 or Knights Travails. If you have the time to do them it will be a great benefit to you, but for basic web dev they are beyond requirements I think. Practicing with AI is a whole topic in itself. I will make a video on this. In short, I would only ever ask it questions to help you understand something. Do not use it to write your code for you at all...especially when learning fundamentals. It's too easy to cheat and never learn. I think the best way to secure a job is to build something with real users. That's what I did, and it was a great item on my resume that provided a ton to discuss in interviews.
I started with JS path but after doing a better research and more specifically after hearing your opinion I will go back and start the ROR path, thanks for your honest opinion, I liked that your videos seems sincere without promoting something in specific due to money incentives and that you truly want to help others with the knowledge that you already acquired without influencing on people to make certain decisions, thanks!
Thanks for putting this together. I've been somewhat agonizing over picking the "right" path, even though the curriculum says "it doesn't matter". I understand that, but when people say "just pick something and stick to it" it feels like a big commitment, knowing that TOP isn't a 2-3 week program. Just spinning a wheel and saying "i'm going to commit the next xx months of my spare time to this process" feels like it's minimizing the time and effort commitment that TOP will demand. This video helps ease the nerves, and is helping me feel better about sticking with the Ruby path!
@@victorkoome9096 I have no complaints. I have worked professionally both in Ruby and JavaScript and I prefer Ruby any day of the week. It's a pleasure to work in in my opinion. However, harder to find jobs in at the junior level I think.
Yes that would be a great path, too. It would be a lot of work to put together but well worth the effort. Still, what is there is very useful. I took the Ruby path and got my first job in Python/Flask.
I have (for longer than I would like to admit) fallen prey to the 'shiny object syndrome' although I believe that I struggle with a different 'version' of it. There may be a name for it, I am unsure. My own struggle with regard to choosing & sticking to a path re what sort of development / tech stack, etc, is that I am often in the position of being anxious over the choice of which 'direction' to begin / continue studying with regard to choice(s) between (but not limited to) web development, mobile development, application / enterprise development (think Java or C++), game development (Unity, C#), data science (Python). It seems every time I feel 'committed' to a path firmly, I am beset with concern that there lies larger potential for employment & earning in ANOTHER path - and as such I find myself in a continuous circuit of hopping from one path to another, staying busy but accomplishing not more than refreshing myself on the first 10% of a language / framework, tech stack, etc. It can be very frustrating, and even moreso while I am seeing myself doing it and knowing that it's unproductive. Challenging to say the least.
Ah yes, the Paradox of Choice. This is what it is called. It's certainly a challenge. I have grappled with it...but just make a decision and go for it! The skills are transferable. Just pick something popular and go.
@@self_taught_dev I can definitely relate to your description, Ryan. Not sure if it's just a slight mix of OCD & ADHD (haha), but I, too, find myself in those situations where I KNOW I am not being productive in the real sense, and just scraping the surface of yet another shiny technology. It's weird when you find yourself procrastinating doing your work in X tool by browsing the documentation and trying lil experiments in Y tool. We definitely need to come up with a better strategy as devs haha.
There are far more Js offers but every one of them has more than 100 applications each, on the other hand there are very few offers on Ruby but no more than 10 applications for each one. At least in my country
node js is good for experienced developers who know what their doing and what libraries they need to know. Rails is a bit better to get an overall view of how a backend should be built. Then levelling up is important because companies want mid. level dev minimum. Ther are also for different reasons right? node js more for chat app features, rails more for standard backend. At the end of the day if your site has a lot of traffic, you'll optimize with a load balancer, maybe write some Go instead of node js but these are all good problems to have
Yes when you're a senior thinking about the right tools for the job there is nuance. But for those getting into it for the first time, I don't think it matters. There's going to be pros and cons for each, but at the end of the day committing to yuor choice is what matters. Rails may be easier to get up and running to start off, but plenty of people take the Node path and get jobs via TOP, so it's not a must.
AI is really terrible at giving you precise reactive web dev. The language model can't actually see the page and understand what you're hoping to change about it, and no amount of prompt engineering will really change that. At some point the prompts have to get so precise it's more or less like you're doing ground-up web dev and you're really just using the language model as a means of syntax checking.
TOP was originally for Ruby on Rails. Node was added later. In my opinion rails is better :D but really I think it’s because rails was hot shit back when TOP was started.
Node.js is far superior, but it doesn't matter that much in terms of learning. The best choice is whatever is easier for you to learn and keep the momentum up
I take comments comparing superiority of tech stacks with a grain of salt. Far superior at what? Rails will win hands down for speed of development, every day. But, at a cost of slower compiling and having to conform to conventions. Plus it has a small (but great) community. JavaScript is far more ubiquitous, but so what? At the end of the day the product is all that matters. The tech stack used to create that product could be any one of them. Every stack has its strengths and weaknesses. I dislike writing JavaScript, but that's because I don't do it often, so its verbose syntax is annoying. But it's still a great language.
In one of the replies above, you have mentioned you got your first job in Python. Did you learn Python from some other resource? Because TOP seems not to be teaching that.
I value your perspective. I started learning Ruby just a month ago. For me, the goal isn't so much to secure a job, but rather to develop my own startup projects. Ultimately, it's not the programming language that matters most, it's the problems it helps solve.
To add, Ruby on Rails is ideal for the solopreneur as it allows you to develop quickly. I am not sure there is a better stack for that all things considered. So consider that.
From a learning perspective, I believe Ruby is a more approachable and easier language to comprehend compared to JavaScript. However, when it comes to securing your first job in the programming world, while you may encounter more competition in JavaScript, there are far more opportunities for juniors in that language.
Yes this is probably true. That said, you still learn JavaScript on the Ruby path...so you can still work in it. My first job was Python and JavaScript. Language doesn't matter as much as understanding fundamentals.
I tried starting with JS. Syntax wasn’t as easy get a hold of as Ruby.
I learned Ruby/Rails THEN JS/Express
Yes Ruby is definitely more pleasurable to work in. Though the foundations path has you learn JS first, and I think that's a good thing given it is ubiquitous in web dev.
Great discussion. Thanks for sharing your insights.
I appreciate your raw honesty pal
Thank you!
Great great great. Honesty. Love the odin project
Yes TOP is an amazing resource with a good community!
Much appreciated
I'm glad I stumbled on your video. This is my 10th day of following the Ruby path on TOP. I was wondering how long it took you to complete the entire path?
I've reached OOPs now and I now have a fair bit of understanding of how classes and inheritances work. But I still need to dig deeper.
Also, I'm practicing a lot with chatgpt as well. If you have any tips on how you practice what you learn, it would be great.
My goal from doing TOP is do build plugins for the Sketchup software with Ruby and Sketchup's API.
I also want to land a job here in Germany in the web development space.
There's loads of jobs in the javascript space but I still want to stick to the ruby on rails path. My goal is achieve a decent level of mastery by end of June and apply for jobs from July.
Thanks for your videos and looking forward to more content from you :)
Yes Ruby or JS you will learn the fundamentals you need! So, I skipped some lessons in Ruby path (naughty of me but I was on tight timeline), so I spent about 7 weeks or so learning Ruby before moving to Rails. I did not do Chess, Connect4 or Knights Travails. If you have the time to do them it will be a great benefit to you, but for basic web dev they are beyond requirements I think.
Practicing with AI is a whole topic in itself. I will make a video on this. In short, I would only ever ask it questions to help you understand something. Do not use it to write your code for you at all...especially when learning fundamentals. It's too easy to cheat and never learn.
I think the best way to secure a job is to build something with real users. That's what I did, and it was a great item on my resume that provided a ton to discuss in interviews.
Thankyou so much for an extensive reply! Very helpful
yup goes for ruby
I started with JS path but after doing a better research and more specifically after hearing your opinion I will go back and start the ROR path, thanks for your honest opinion, I liked that your videos seems sincere without promoting something in specific due to money incentives and that you truly want to help others with the knowledge that you already acquired without influencing on people to make certain decisions, thanks!
I am glad I can help out! Yes there is a lot of 'spam' out there. I just like to share what I have experienced with the hopes it will help others.
great video
Thank you! Let me know if you have any questions and I'll make another.
Thank you man
Thanks for putting this together. I've been somewhat agonizing over picking the "right" path, even though the curriculum says "it doesn't matter". I understand that, but when people say "just pick something and stick to it" it feels like a big commitment, knowing that TOP isn't a 2-3 week program. Just spinning a wheel and saying "i'm going to commit the next xx months of my spare time to this process" feels like it's minimizing the time and effort commitment that TOP will demand. This video helps ease the nerves, and is helping me feel better about sticking with the Ruby path!
Yes no matter which you choose you'll be heading in the right direction if you stick to it.
How's the Ruby path?
@@victorkoome9096 I have no complaints. I have worked professionally both in Ruby and JavaScript and I prefer Ruby any day of the week. It's a pleasure to work in in my opinion. However, harder to find jobs in at the junior level I think.
I wish the Oden Project offered Python & Django & Flask as a 3rd option.
Yes that would be a great path, too. It would be a lot of work to put together but well worth the effort. Still, what is there is very useful. I took the Ruby path and got my first job in Python/Flask.
I have (for longer than I would like to admit) fallen prey to the 'shiny object syndrome' although I believe that I struggle with a different 'version' of it. There may be a name for it, I am unsure. My own struggle with regard to choosing & sticking to a path re what sort of development / tech stack, etc, is that I am often in the position of being anxious over the choice of which 'direction' to begin / continue studying with regard to choice(s) between (but not limited to) web development, mobile development, application / enterprise development (think Java or C++), game development (Unity, C#), data science (Python). It seems every time I feel 'committed' to a path firmly, I am beset with concern that there lies larger potential for employment & earning in ANOTHER path - and as such I find myself in a continuous circuit of hopping from one path to another, staying busy but accomplishing not more than refreshing myself on the first 10% of a language / framework, tech stack, etc. It can be very frustrating, and even moreso while I am seeing myself doing it and knowing that it's unproductive. Challenging to say the least.
Ah yes, the Paradox of Choice. This is what it is called. It's certainly a challenge. I have grappled with it...but just make a decision and go for it! The skills are transferable. Just pick something popular and go.
@@self_taught_dev I can definitely relate to your description, Ryan. Not sure if it's just a slight mix of OCD & ADHD (haha), but I, too, find myself in those situations where I KNOW I am not being productive in the real sense, and just scraping the surface of yet another shiny technology. It's weird when you find yourself procrastinating doing your work in X tool by browsing the documentation and trying lil experiments in Y tool. We definitely need to come up with a better strategy as devs haha.
@@vasy-tech haha yes this is definitely going to hamper your rate of learning, in my opinion. Just choose one and don't look back! ☺
Some advice: look for Ruby jobs in your city to see how popular it is.
Yes I think you need to look further afield for Ruby jobs in many cases. I work remotely. I think it’s more an issue of no junior roles.
There are far more Js offers but every one of them has more than 100 applications each, on the other hand there are very few offers on Ruby but no more than 10 applications for each one. At least in my country
@@jorgemacea7575 Agreed
@@jorgemacea7575
Getting a job into Ruby on Rails is much more easier
Great video. Great advice 🤙
Which one will you choose? :)
@@self_taught_dev Rails all the way!!! Will keep my JavaScript to front end if I can 😬 Ruby for me is much nicer to learn and write 🙌🏻
@@alanbradley5187 haha same here.
node js is good for experienced developers who know what their doing and what libraries they need to know. Rails is a bit better to get an overall view of how a backend should be built. Then levelling up is important because companies want mid. level dev minimum. Ther are also for different reasons right? node js more for chat app features, rails more for standard backend. At the end of the day if your site has a lot of traffic, you'll optimize with a load balancer, maybe write some Go instead of node js but these are all good problems to have
Yes when you're a senior thinking about the right tools for the job there is nuance. But for those getting into it for the first time, I don't think it matters. There's going to be pros and cons for each, but at the end of the day committing to yuor choice is what matters. Rails may be easier to get up and running to start off, but plenty of people take the Node path and get jobs via TOP, so it's not a must.
Even in 2024 with the new “IA BOOM” still worthy to learn Roby on Rails?
AI is not replacing developers any time soon in my opinion.
AI is really terrible at giving you precise reactive web dev. The language model can't actually see the page and understand what you're hoping to change about it, and no amount of prompt engineering will really change that. At some point the prompts have to get so precise it's more or less like you're doing ground-up web dev and you're really just using the language model as a means of syntax checking.
Yes there will be human developers for a while yet!@@TheSilentFool
I am wondering, why was TOP website built with Ruby/Rails rather than Node/Express?
TOP was originally for Ruby on Rails. Node was added later. In my opinion rails is better :D but really I think it’s because rails was hot shit back when TOP was started.
Node.js is far superior, but it doesn't matter that much in terms of learning. The best choice is whatever is easier for you to learn and keep the momentum up
I take comments comparing superiority of tech stacks with a grain of salt. Far superior at what? Rails will win hands down for speed of development, every day. But, at a cost of slower compiling and having to conform to conventions. Plus it has a small (but great) community. JavaScript is far more ubiquitous, but so what? At the end of the day the product is all that matters. The tech stack used to create that product could be any one of them. Every stack has its strengths and weaknesses. I dislike writing JavaScript, but that's because I don't do it often, so its verbose syntax is annoying. But it's still a great language.
exactly right
In one of the replies above, you have mentioned you got your first job in Python. Did you learn Python from some other resource? Because TOP seems not to be teaching that.
No I learned it on the job! But it is a very straightforward language to learn and similar enough to Ruby that it's an easy switch.
PHP/Symfony ?...
Never looked at it myself but anything for web development is a good start.
Learn both. Ruby and JS might compete, but the fact is that in almost any rails project, you will have JS code.
Yes exactly. If you take the rails path you still do JS after...just not node.
Ruby is dead
Lol. You've got a head like a f*cking orange!
No, Ruby is not dead. But your loss if you believe it.