Traveller is my favorite scifi setting, and they have an feudal esque government. Hilariously, one of the pocket kingdoms in that setting has an emperor who's "ruled" for nearly a thousand years... because they keep him in cryo sleep and thaw him out every hundred years or so to sign the papers necessary to allow the normal government to operate.
@@heatrayzvideo3007 There were a couple _Traveller_ computer RPGs, too. _The Zhodani Conspiracy_ and _Quest for the Ancients,_ both set in the _MegaTraveller_ time period. Also at least one stand alone boardgame, _Imperium._
Economies of scale applied to interplanetaries empires lol More probably there wouldn't be a single world governement at any point on earth, it's really hard to get everybody to agree to that and you don't need to create a world governement in the first place.
@@mill2712 Yes exactly. A dollar note* means you have a dollar. You cannot have a negative dollar note. You can have both debts and credit on a spreadsheet but not physically, which I think was Isaac Arthur's point. A negative account balance can only exist in the abstract. *(Actually does the US have single dollar notes or is that only coins with 5 dollar notes being smallest?)
In Dune, the Empire claims to rule a million worlds but the known space of the setting only extends a few hundred light-years. A million worlds probably isn't a long shot. Asimov's Foundation series *really* lowballed it on scale, though.
In fairness to Asimov, when he started writing the foundation series, a billion was 10 to the 12th power, not 10 to the 9th power like it's used today. Now that's called a "long billion".
One thing this video reminds me of is one of the reasons Western Rome collapsed: many of its provinces and people just stopped caring. The central government in Rome could barely afford to garrison a frontier province in Northeastern Gaul, so the people who lived there became responsible for their own defence, nor invest in infrastructure so the locals didn'tget any benefit from being part of the empire, nor could the empire effectively tax the region, so for the people in said province the Empire didn't exist, or at the very least, didn't matter.
@Arkantos117 yep, it varied a lot per region. Hell, the Roman Senate was only disbanded 50 years after the city Rome was conquered and the last Emperor deposed. And many provinces invited "barbarian" tribes and mercenaries, the Foederati, to settle within roman borders in order to shore up defences. Giving their chieftains and Kings roman titles for the prestige, which eventually evolved into Feudal titles (like Count, or the French version Comte, comes from Comnitas; "Companion (of the Emperor/King)" or Duke coming from Dux, a title of a late roman military commander)
One of the most interesting concepts for an interstellar empire in the absence of FTL was in the 2019 episode "Making Suns" on this channel. Packing a billion .25 solar mass red dwarfs together in a mega cluster with communication times of a month and travel times of less than a year. That always seemed the most plausible way a massive empire could maintain cohesion and centralized control without FTL.
Define worlds loooool, in Halo the Covenant's capital was a mega structure with an ancient, wrecked, forerunner ship as the power supply. One thing I did like about Halo was that even though they had FTL, their depictions of aliens and their motivations for invading were not stupid. The Covenant invaded because of internal politics, their religion, and the fact that humanity's ancestors were heavily favored by an ancient race of aliens. "Our gods said so" is far more believable a motivation than "we want a resource that's scarce on your planet but abundant in your system."
Have you not read Contact Harvest? The covenant attacked humans because their Forerunner detecting tech revealed that humans are the descendents of them. So bringing the humans into the covenant would have threatened the control of the Prophets. Thus they suppressed the information from all except the Brutes amd declared war on humans.
The relationship between England and its many colonies, including the United States, provides multiple models for the creation and devolution of an interstellar empire -- especially when you consider the time scale of travel when England founded its 1st colony and the time needed to go to their Pacific holdings before the Suez Canal -- and even after.
I’m not convinced humanity would or could sustain an empire of billions of planets, even with FTL. Our history of empires and geopolitics in general up to this point certainly doesn’t support it. And that’s less a technology problem than it is an aspect of human nature. Not to mention there are still vast wildernesses and undeveloped areas on Earth right now - and we’ve had plenty of time and capability to do so.
I'd be willing to bet that by planet 3 of humanity's empire(s), a better species/robot model would end up simply taking over. And by planet/planet sized object 10, that species/robot model would stop calling itself humanity entirely. In other words, humanity or anything calling itself humanity wouldn't expand past the Kuiper Belt before ceasing to be recognizable as humanity. There would certainly be individuals and groups of traveling dolphins or space toasters leaving the system that still call themselves part of humanity, but there wouldn't be any real unified empire of humanity leaving the system.
I was thinking exactly this. Historically, once colonies developed beyond a certain point, they wanted, and eventually got, independence. And that was with travel times measured in months. With a travel time of decades, those planetary colonies will pretty soon be ruling themselves.
Yeep, that's the main reason to many people doesn't agree with to establish interstellar empire. However, if more independent planets are some kinds of confederation or the other type of governments, they usually would choose to establish civilian governments and military governments, and they supporting one empire as historical Royal culture. Moreover, interstellar civilizations are far beyond to conquer territories and somewhat colonial period, including geopolitical tensions. In brief, they're highly advanced and peaceful to avoid wars or ideological conflicts damaging their development process.
@@linz8291 Humans will always have ideological conflicts because we don't all think the same or have the same beliefs on governance, economic policy, or spiritual beliefs. The best method we probably have is indeed a type of "confederation" where people of similar mind on these topics can have their own societies - but even then, some group(s) will begin seeking power and the impression of their worldview unto others.
"What is the grievance?" If they're dependent on Earth for science and entertainment, probably the ending to the latest George RR Martin TV adaptation.
I think it's somewhat unfair to always assume a lack of scale based on ignorance of the size of space. The size of colonization is not always related to this; population growth, politics, restrictions on ftl in the setting and thousands of other factors dictate this. Even in Warhammer where the scale is closer, this is still a problem.
Isaac - any chance you've thought about the minimum requirements to maintain a colony of humans? How about minimum animals required for a colony? How about food stuffs - like how many different kinds of plants would we need? There would have to be elected governments, power systems, sewage systems, education systems, health systems, travel & distribution systems, communication systems... even entertainment systems... and I guess by *system* I mean *industry.* I'm curious as to how the population would be divided to cover these various systems or industries. Just how many telephone cleaners would we actually need from each generation? Is there a minimum number of weather satellites we would need? How about rocket scientists to maintain our space transportation system?
Oh yes, it's quite a lot too, unless you're bringing frozen/digital DNA along you need O'Neil Cylinder sized ships to even have a decent shot at bringing along most of Earth's species, and even there it's assuming you're probably not bringing most, just a wide enough sample to fill your ecological niches decently and eventually diverge into new ones. We talked about it more in Exporting Earth but frankly could do many episodes on it.
"and it can come back grab more people and colonize more planets" nope, we all know and agree that any colony ship must have a self destruct mechanism that destroys the ship a few days after the first people leave it...
@@RipOffProductionsLLC Yeah, when you consider just how much refined material a colony ship consists of, let alone the advanced components which can be repurposed for the colony, it makes a lot of sense. Biggest issue would be needing to construct the colony ship to allow controlled deorbiting and even then you can make compromises by having large landers which do the actual offloading onto the planet whilst the colony ship itself gets converted into an orbital station or shipyard.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC It sounds reasonable unless you really think about it. Your colony ship is capable of supporting everyone's needs, it has manufacturing capabilities, and most importantly its in orbit, as there is no reason to design it to be able to land. You can use it while setting up all the other necessary infrastructure for the planet. Though by doing so that removes most the hardship and environmental factors that the story teller is trying to overcome.
This talk on multi-planetary empires makes me think about how logistics would work in a multi-star network. In other words, how would the life of a "space trucker" be? Would it be fully automated? How would they deliver bio-supplies (food, plants, etc)? How would the ships organize deliveries? Edit: Nvm you already did a vid on space freighters on Nebula.
Although there is already a theory about an Alcubierre engine that does not require negative mass, new equations say that this is possible, although such a ship would still have a mass equal to Jupiter. this is a lot, but it is already realizable within the framework of current physics. And perhaps the Cosimir effect could help us create an effect similar to negative mass if we were able to scale this effect on a larger scale
i think the opposite will be come... if a Message from "central command" will need 10 years to reach you, and "reinforcements" will take 100 years... the government structure would be build around that... on the long run i could see the return of feudalism to central and a variety of everything to local structures... would be interesting to see the local president, that had to be confirmed by vote almost everything he does or decides bending his knees to a central command that want 10 % of population for further colonization somewhere else...
Great video Issac and team! The visuals, writing, art, and sound are all stunning. I once pondered the possibility of a universe-wide Direct Democracy. However, considering the limitations of known physics and the speed of light for data transmission, I concluded that such a system wouldn't be feasible beyond 200 AU due to the vast distances involved and the light lag of information. I also realized that temporary government services would have to be measured in hours and from the time that those government services started to keep everything standardized. I did have fun creating a new constitution, bill of rights and "Federation Papers" to explain the thinking of the prior two documents. Those 3 documents were 45 pages in all and took into account the rise of sentient AI, cybernetically enhanced individuals, and alien species living under the same government. My thinking is that governments past the Kieper belt (and other systems), could use these papers as the base template for their own government. Anyways, it was a really fun thought experiment and I'm glad that project is done.
If you're interested, here's the Universal Bill of Rights I created as part of the thought experiment above: Universal Bill of Rights Preamble: Recognizing that all sentient beings, regardless of their origin, have inherent rights and dignity, this Bill of Rights is established to protect the fundamental freedoms and liberties of all sentient beings. Article 1: Right to Life and Liberty - All Sentient Beings have the right to life, liberty, and security of person. Article 2: Right to Freedom and Dignity - All sentient beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of friendship. Slavery, torture, and degrading treatment are not permitted under any circumstances. Article 3: Right to Equality and Non-Discrimination - all sentient beings are equal before the law and are entitled to equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination based on species, biology, culture, politics, place, color, gender, sexual orientation, language, religion, national, social origin, property, birth, cybernetics contained, self-aware artificial intelligence or any other discriminatory factors. Sentient Life is defined as the ability to have one own’s thoughts, goals and the ability to vote without outside direction on matters of policies as part of this direct democratic body. Article 4: Right to Freedom of Thought and Expression - Sentient life has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion, including the freedom of opinion and expression, seeking and sharing information and ideas across borders. They can change their religion or belief and express it in teaching, worship, and observance, alone or with others, in public or private. Article 5: Right for Sentient Beings to Bear Arms - The right to bear arms cannot be infringed as it enables sentient beings to defend themselves against tyrannical leaders who threaten their rights. Article 6: Right to Peace - Sentient beings have the right to live in peace, which cannot be achieved in a war. If a sentient being starts a war, their life will be forfeited, and governing bodies have a duty to prevent further casualties. Wars cause misery, and all governing bodies are directed to prevent them. Article 7: Right to Justice - Sentient beings have the right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures, and warrants can only be issued with probable cause approved by the court. Sentient beings cannot be arbitrarily arrested, detained, exiled, or held without a trial by their peers and they cannot be tried twice for the same offence nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. Sentient beings have the right to due process of law, including a speedy and public trial, the right to know the charges, the right to confront witnesses, and the right to an attorney. Sentient beings are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and cannot be punished excessively. The death penalty is only allowed for war crimes or starting a war. Article 8: Right to Privacy - Sentient beings have the right to privacy and protection against unlawful interference with their privacy, family, home, personal information and reputation. Article 9: Right to Freedom of Movement - Sentient life has the right to freedom of movement, to leave and return to their political realm. They can seek political asylum from persecution, but not for non-political crimes. Article 10: Right to Education- All Sentient Beings have the right to attend free education that focuses on the development of the entire being, including civics, ethics, critical thinking, problem-solving skills, good health, financial and relationship habits and principles for achieving happiness. Education shall promote respect for sentient rights, understanding, tolerance, and friendship amongst all sentients for the maintenance of peace. It shall teach peaceful and respectful disagreement resolution, essential for a well-functioning direct democracy. Parents have a prior right to choose their children's education. Article 11: Right to live within a meritocracy - In this direct democracy, economic goods, services, job promotions, and political power shall be based on talent, effort, and achievement, rather than discriminatory factors like wealth, social class, friendships or family. Article 12: Right to Work and Fair Treatment - Sentient beings have the right to work and free choice of employment under just and favorable conditions with protection against unemployment, with equal pay for equal work and voluntary trade union participation. The government will provide suitable work or free education if needed, along with an allowance to cover existing living costs for up to 6000 hours. The allowance should be enough to cover existing living expenses to maintain current housing, transportation, nutrition and medical services, including access to the information network. This service can only be used once every 24000 hours. If the sentient being is found through the court to be unable to care for themselves through reeducation or employment, then the necessary basics will be provided to ensure sustainment of life. This service should be under the highest of scrutiny to prevent abuse and waste. Penalties for abusing the system should be kept high. Everyone has the right to rest, leisure, reasonable working hours, and periodic holidays with pay. Article 13: Right to Health - All Sentient Beings have the right to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health. They have the right to access to healthcare services, including reproductive healthcare, without discrimination. Article 14: Right to Property - All Sentient Beings have the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. Article 15: Right to Culture and Science - All Sentient Beings have the right to participate in cultural life and to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications. They have the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary, or artistic production of which they are the author. Article 16 - Right to Partnership- Sentient beings have the right to form partnerships, families, and to receive equal rights and protection, including during partnership and at its dissolution. Partnerships require free and full consent. Society and all political bodies must protect families, and provide special care and assistance for motherhood and childhood. All children, regardless of their birth circumstances, shall receive the same social protection. Article 17 - Right to Public Services - All Sentient Beings have the right to equal access to public services. Article 18: Right to a Safe and Sustainable Environment - Sentient beings have the right to a safe and sustainable environment, including access to information about environmental conditions that may affect their health or well-being. Article 19: The right of citizens to freely express thoughts and opinions, whether orally, written, or through any media, shall not be hindered or restricted by government interference. The freedom of the press, the right to assemble peaceably, and the ability to petition the government for a redress of grievances, are fundamental liberties guaranteed to all and shall not be violated. Article 20: Every child, regardless of parental status, is entitled to fundamental rights and protections. Children who are not wanted by their parents, or who are placed up for adoption, shall have the right to safe and nurturing care, education, healthcare, housing, nutritious food, clean water, and security from abuse and neglect. The state shall ensure that these children are provided with opportunities for stable, loving, and permanent family environments, either through adoption or suitable guardianship. Their best interests shall be the primary consideration in all decisions affecting their welfare and future. Furthermore, it is the duty of the state to guarantee these children access to quality education and adequate living conditions, ensuring their holistic development and integration into society. Article 21: The pursuit of progress and innovation is a fundamental right and essential for the advancement of society. The government shall not unduly hinder or obstruct technological and scientific development, creative endeavors, or the introduction of new ideas and methodologies. However, this right is balanced with the government's responsibility to protect public safety, health, and welfare. Regulations or interventions by the government in the realm of innovation must be justified, transparent, and focused on safeguarding the public, ensuring ethical standards, and protecting the environment, while fostering an atmosphere conducive to growth and advancement. Importantly, these regulations or interventions shall not violate any other freedoms guaranteed in this Bill of Rights. The government is also tasked with facilitating access to education and resources necessary for innovation, ensuring that progress benefits society as a whole Article 22: The enumeration in the Constitution and of these rights, shall not be used to deny or disparage other rights already retained by sentient beings. Article 23: Unassigned powers in the Constitution are reserved for local governments or their respective sentient beings. Article 24: Sentient beings have the right to remedy for any violated rights. This Universal Bill of Rights affirms the dignity and worth of all sentient beings and recognizes the inherent rights that every sentient being possesses. It is the responsibility of all individuals and governments to uphold these rights and to ensure that they are not violated or infringed upon.
And here's the Constitution of Universal Direct Democracy as part of the thought experiment above: Constitution for a Universal Wide Direct Democracy Preamble: We, the sentient beings of the universe, establish this Constitution for a Universal Wide Direct Democracy to ensure that all individuals, regardless of their location or species, have an equal voice and an equal vote in the decision-making processes that affect their lives. We affirm the principles of democracy, equality, justice, and sentient rights, and we commit ourselves to the peaceful resolution of conflicts and the protection of the universe and its resources for present and future generations. Article 1: Establishment of the Universal Wide Direct Democracy - The Universal Wide Direct Democracy is established as the governing body of the universe, with the power to make laws, levy taxes, and conduct interstellar affairs. All Sentient Beings have the right to participate in the direct democratic process, regardless of their species, planetary origin or any other discriminatory factors. Article 2: Powers of the Universal Wide Direct Democracy - The powers of the Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall be exercised through the direct participation of all sentient beings, who shall have the right to propose, debate, and vote on all laws and policies that affect them. All decisions shall be made through a majority vote, with no restrictions on the number of proposals or the frequency of elections. History teaches us that cooperation and diplomacy can resolve conflicts and promote peace. Building strong relationships between political bodies and working together to address common challenges can lead to a better future. Article 3: Protection of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms - The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall protect the fundamental rights and freedoms of all individuals, including the right to life, liberty, and security of person; the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion; the right to freedom of opinion and expression; the right to privacy; the right to freedom of assembly and association; and the right to access to justice and a fair trial by a jury of the sentients’ peers. No one may be compelled to belong to an association. History shows us that sentient rights leads to oppression, conflict, and suffering. Protecting and promoting sentient rights is essential for creating a just and peaceful society. Article 4: Election and Term of Office of the Speaker - The Speaker of the Worldwide Direct Democracy shall be elected through a direct democratic process, with no restrictions on the number of candidates or political parties. The term of office of shall be 24,000 hours from being sworn in. The sentient beings shall have the right to recall their representatives at any time. History shows us that great leaders with a clear vision can inspire people to achieve great things. Leaders who prioritize the common good and work to create a better future for all can make a lasting impact. Article 5: Judicial System and Protection of Sentient Rights - The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall establish an independent judiciary to ensure the protection of sentients’ rights and the rule of law. All individuals shall have the right to a fair and impartial trial, and no one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful detention or punishment. History has shown us that intolerance and prejudice can lead to discrimination, persecution, and even genocide. We must be vigilant against these forces and work to promote understanding and acceptance of diversity. Article 6: Protection of the Environment and Planetary Resources The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall protect the environment and natural resources of all planets and star systems for present and future generations. All individuals shall have the right to a clean and healthy environment, and the Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall take measures to prevent pollution and promote sustainable development. Article 7: Protection of Cultural Diversity The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall protect and promote cultural diversity, recognizing the value of different cultures and the need to preserve cultural heritage. All individuals, whether human or alien, shall have the right to participate in cultural life and to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications. Article 8: Amendments to the Constitution This Constitution may be amended through a direct democratic process, with the approval of a majority of the people. Amendments shall not infringe upon the fundamental rights and freedoms protected by this Constitution. Conclusion: This Constitution establishes a Universal Wide Direct Democracy that empowers all individuals, regardless of their species or planetary origin, to directly participate in the decision-making processes that affect their lives. It affirms the principles of democracy, equality, justice, and sentient rights, and it is based on the belief that all individuals have the capacity to contribute to the common good of the universe.
Isaac - at 6:43 you mentioned O'Neill Colonies. EVERY star system is a candidate for that type of settlement becaue every star system should have asteroids and comets as the source of construction materials. Once we are established in some solar system we might paraterraform everything . . . building a Dyson Swarm.
A "Deepness in the Sky" is the best book about the challenges of space trade ive ever read. Its a lomg read but a fantastic seq-prequal to "A Fire upon the Deep" which is literally ny second favorite book of all time.
"To think of these stars that you see overhead at night, these vast worlds which we can never reach. I would annex the planets if I could; I often think of that. It makes me sad to see them so clear and yet so far." --- Cecil Rhodes, infamous British imperialist.
The Sun masses at 300,000 earths. Disassembling it even only halfway would yield 150,000 earths around a red dwarf star. FTL travel wouldn't be necessary for a Multi-planetary empire
Kinda reminds me some of the old RPG Traveller 2300 AD. Had many worlds that had been colonized by several nations, each with their own colony and some with combined colonies depending on the treaties they had. Even had a few Corporate Colonies and Alien Enclaves on some.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can I get the name of the music track that starts at about 10:10 in the video? It adds great atmosphere to the content, and I'd love to listen to it if it's available somewhere.
Ive been thinking for my own world and i decided what would make most sense without ftl, i came to the conclusion that there were just a few kinds of viable multi-planet empires. My favourite form would be a trade league style empire where members have local autonomy but have come to agreements to help maintain infrastructure and control trade (for example by occupying legrange points) as well as maintain mutualy defense and the such. A sort of Delian league model, lots of room for interesting drama too, for example a group trying to centralize the league under their control, or an outside power trying to intervene
in both gundam wing and wall-e they go about that once you finally get it working, living in a space colony is actually a lot easier than living on earth and i can see that being true and planets just being left behind by advanced civilizations
@@1650th And their human servants are so habituated to service that after their last master passes on, rather than enjoying their freedom they will seek out another feline overlord to serve.
Hearing your exploration of the transport, sustainment, and governance challenges, it seems likely that we would first have large space habitats in our own solar system, with interstellar resource mining missions performed by autonomous machines once we start to exhaust our local materials.
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One note on space long distance communication. I think long distance communication will be viable with quantum entanglement. This would solve the long distance communication lag problem. We probably may use it for voice and visuals. Maybe even remotely control robots and machines. It's just a thought about this problem. Thanks for making these various topics debatable in your videos. 👍
Entanglement can’t be used to communication as the output from it is random and nothing you do to one entangled particle affects the other.
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@schakiarligonde1736 this is according to the current knowledge. Who knows what could be done with it in the future. Who knows what kind of tech we will discover and invent in the future we cannot even begin to conceive at the present. So bluntly say cannot means restricting yourself possibilities.
In my imagine empire. There are four stages of my military. Militia, PDF, homeguard, Standing. Militia are form from villages to cities. Militia don't get paid, except only in goverment provided ammo, fuel, and food. PDF are form from all the population of the planet. PDF also in charge off their local planetary orbit. Homeguard is in charge of all their local star system. Standing military is use for offensive purposes only.
I do like the idea of organizing your interstellar empire's military like that. Though here's how I'd do mine and my thoughts. This comment will go over non state armed groups. - Militias These would be organized into two parts. Organized and planetary sponsored. And unorganized independent militias. Organized militias are government sanctioned armed groups who receive logistics from from their local planetary government/government inside the planet like a city or province. (Equivalent of a state, country, coalition in that planet.) They are however, not beholden on a federal level and cannot conscript members. They are all volunteers but it is commonly seen as community service so it can be used to lessen/nullify low level jail sentences and misdemeanors. First response is also considered a part of the organized militia. Unorganized militias do not receive any government assistance and are not required to register to any government institution. However their legality can determine if they are considered militia or armed gang, insurgents, or terrorists. Though because of that, no one knows how many there are on each world, province, or even city. It can range from one man or family to a neighborhood watch, to a group of people. The weapons they use are limited to what they can buy and what they can make and are paid for by individuals or private entities/benefactors. And some governments have laws on the books on that. They're extremely common on frontier worlds. Large ones over 10,000 are considered paramilitaries. (The difference between paramilitaries and organized militias can be blurry. Especially considering who they serve and who's paying. My definition of Paramilitaries may change.) - Mercenaries and private security forces Mercs by my interstellar government's definition are non-state for profit military organizations and companies whose sole purpose is to provide support for conflicts. There are a number of mercenary companies out there and many are very large and influential. A sanctioned mercenary company can be as well armed as some systems. Sancioned mercenaries can fight in conflicts sanctioned by their government within and outside their faction and allied/non aligned factions and can receive contracts. Security companies aren't companies all under themselves but are typically hired by or are a subsidiary under another company or their government. They do not fight in wars. (Usually.) But protect people, places, things, and entities. They are heavily regulated and audited as to prevent their benefactors from having too much power. Both are quite regulated and both are common tools against piracy.
For mid state military organization (Province/country, planetary, system level military) - Intra-planetary militaries These are similar to the militaries of countries and unions of earth today. They're common among large colony planets that have subdivisions or non unified entities. These are the lowest level military divisions allowed to use conscripts. Funding is based on taxes, some from the empire at large, and each major world over 10,000,000 are required to at least have a portion of its citizens in service. Any military from world under 5,000,000 is considered a militia/militias. - PDFs These are militaries under the flag of a planet or system whose population is heavily centered around a single planetary government/planetary government coalition. (20% or less of the system's population live off world and those lesser populated worlds have under 1 million inhabitants/rely heavily on the host planet.) Besides mercenaries and private security forces, they are allowed to have fleets in orbit or patrolling their system. These are also the lowest level military organization that can be called for interstellar conflicts by a sector fleet or higher without consulting the government in times of necessity. Anything lower must be green lit by that planet's government. (But such an action is always put under review by the high military authority if not already sanctioned.) - SDFs (System Defense Forces) They're functions are similar to PDFs, however these militaries have populations whose colonies in the system are more spread throughout multiple other planets, moons, and habitats. (Over 20 percent of the system population.) And each planet has their own PDF available. They come in two types. United systems and coalition systems. United systems while mostly self sufficient and have their own government and militaries, still combine forces under a single unit for the benefit of the system. Coalition systems are more independent of each other and conduct joint operations as if they were allied yet separate countries. Each with agreements and conditions.
Another discussion about stellar empires without ever mentioning the reality of the distance between stars- the average diameter to distance ratio is 50 million, meaning interstellar travel will very likely NEVER get done.
In the midst of re-listening to The Foundation series for the 3rd time as this video dropped; currently on Foundation's Edge. Interesting how panpsychism gets presented as the ultimate method for unifying galactic life, even in an FTL universe.
Low hanging fruit worlds? I like that! There should be a whimsical classification method such as top of the heap worlds and bottom of the barrel worlds and dispeptic worlds and so forth. Why not?
Slightly disappointed there was no mention made of multi-planet federal Republics. I like the idea of the U.S., specifically, expanding beyond Earth, to include new states, territories and other administrative entities off Earth. It seems reasonable to imagine that if, say, there were several hundred thousand U.S. citizens living on the moons of Neptune and in chandelier cities in its upper atmosphere, they might want to organize into the state of Keola (named after Jennifer Keola, commander of the first expedition to reach Neptune). Congress might conclude that with a speed of light round trip lag of over eight hours, Keola would need to be more autonomous than Delaware or Jennifer Keola's home state of Samoa, and instead of granting statehood, would propose to admit Keola as an Autonomous Territory, as New California (the moons of Uranus) had been fifteen years earlier. Well, just a thought.
Planetary movement due to the influence of other planets and stellar output and how they affect the Goldilocks Zone for future exploration and as a history over the past millions of years.
Riding a line lol, they prefer keeping this comment section apolitical. That being said though, I’d rather have a 500 year old future geezer running the country, rather than a 70-90 year old one in the current era.
Considering how the government operates today. I fear that a multiplanetary empire would be a level of corrupt and tyrannical we could never comprehend. I would love for us to go beyond this world and explore the cosmos. But I fear the worst of us will rule over it if they even let us leave this rock.
At the rates of inflation we've seen in the last few years, i wouldn't be that surprised to see the value of the dollar turn negative in the not too distant future...
Excellent presentation...but did I miss he part about even an Earth mass planet, orbiting within the "habitable zone" of a Sun like star with comparable elements' presence, still needs a relatively large mass "moon" orbiting it to engender similar positive mechanical effects on that planet''s own mechanical processes to be of benefit to nursing developing technologically advanced species... ... ...?
Mr. Arthur. Thank you as always for an amazing video. Once again you make me think. You point out that technology does not make despots less likely. I would go further and say that technology makes despots *more likely* . I believe that it is the communications and coordination of its forces is what makes a despot more likely. Consider a certain former president's followers and the way he and his spread their messages. A leader who can hop on a jet to travel to his next rally is going to much more affective than one that has to ride in a wagon. A despot with faster ships and agi 'supporters' would likely have an easier time than one with our current computers and maybe light-sails (even if powered by lasers...) This might even be part of the solution to the Fermi Paradox. Despotic empires as you point out would have a limit to volume of space. Which would make them harder to detect maybe. Thank again for an intellectually inspirational video.
What is to stop a civilization from creating their own nuclear reactor that orbits a planet and provides it with the necessary "sunlight", needed to provide the planet with the needed solar energy for terraform it? What is to stop a civilization from de-orbiting moons, asteroids, and comets, and crashing them in to planets to terraform them?
Perhaps we can MAKE the exotic materials required for FTL? Just because we have not found something in nature, does not mean it is impossible. Perhaps we can learn how to assemble fundamental particles or even create new types of quarks etc. Of course understanding the fundamental properties of space time is a requirement for creating exotic materials... and we still have a long way to go before gaining this level of knowledge 😅
Over the course of hundreds of millions of years, your empire of stars will be randomly shuffled about the galaxy, due to different orbits around the galaxy.. Your capitol, or other key worlds, may be in the heart of enemy territory in time. Or theirs might be next to yours.
Multi-planet, much less multi star system “empires” would probably be something more like Great Britain and its former colonies. Obedience to the empire would be entirely ceremonial (flags, sports competitions, cultural exchanges etc). Direct control over other planets would completely impractical and not particularly desirable. But a completely voluntary lip service paid to a unified empire might be useful as a way of maintaining continuity and for political expediency and stability.
I thought Dune only had like 5 planets? The spice planet, the home planet of the quild, the planet of the Harkonans, the planet of the Atraties, and a 5th one I can't remember.
I honestly just forgot what you were talking about halfway through the video. I would be happy to leave my house sometime, but I have no interest in leaving earth. I probably won't even leave the U.S. Canada is really scary these days. I guess I can understand why people in other countries think earth is the worst place to be. But they've never really considered what life on a spaceship would be like.
Give no FTL or slower FTL I wouldn't be surprised to see nobility poping up once again. Le'ts not forget that most nobility was made from conquerors that took over a piece of land and turned the natives into serfs.
Historically, many of Earth's larger empires crumbled as a result of logistical over-extension. And applying the square-cube law to that implies that a government as we currently understand them would have some pretty hard limits on size. Which isn't to say that couldn't come up with some new form of government, but I'm not aware of any fictional examples of something that would apply.
Probably time is the key issue, so it depends on how fast a central government can respond to an attack or revolt in a fringe of the empire. I think this applies the same to Earth's past as well as a galactic empire. I suppose will also matters, how much the empire wants to hold on, vs how badly people want to separate.
Centralization was always an important factor, cultural cohesion of the ruling classes across time and place, the fewer demands the better. There remain some commonalities that help like the lasting influence of the Roman Empire.
Empires only function if there is some sort of trade mechanism. There isn’t much that’s worth transporting interplanetary let alone interstellar. Digital products such as knowledge, engineering blueprints, eduction and entertainment may be viable as at least they can be transferred at light speed, even if the transmission costs will be astronomical. Transferring goods of any kind is economically pointless. The transference of digital capital only makes sense only as an accounting system for the transference of digital goods.
I think when you're making many of these very valid points about why governing massive interstellar empires would be difficult and/or impossible, you're hinting at why the idea of "government" and the institution of state is doomed to fail ... the idea that some delegated group has to rule the rest of us by fear and force is a primitive mindset we've inherited from our ancestors, but it's one we will have to get rid of in order to attain the sort of glorious future we imagined here. We will have to learn to make "anarchism" work through creating a better post-scarcity society and world where people aren't inclined to commit crimes against their neighbors and we either cure or care for the mentally ill correctly. Even today, most people WANT a safe, stable and tranquil place to live ... but we also have a dark underbelly to society that is a side effect of systemic failures of the state and society itself. We simply have to fix that, somehow, and get rid of rulers and overlords. Otherwise, we will definitely destroy ourselves with the powerful tech we are already grasping at today ...
Traveller is my favorite scifi setting, and they have an feudal esque government. Hilariously, one of the pocket kingdoms in that setting has an emperor who's "ruled" for nearly a thousand years... because they keep him in cryo sleep and thaw him out every hundred years or so to sign the papers necessary to allow the normal government to operate.
Good old traveler, one of the few decent scifi RPG settings.
@@isaacarthurSFIA vastly under rated, needs more coverage.
That's pretty cool. I've not heard of it before
Traveller is criminally underrated. ❤👽💫
@@heatrayzvideo3007 There were a couple _Traveller_ computer RPGs, too. _The Zhodani Conspiracy_ and _Quest for the Ancients,_ both set in the _MegaTraveller_ time period.
Also at least one stand alone boardgame, _Imperium._
Haven't finished subjugating one planet and already planning a multi planet empire. Rather ambitious.
We plan to become a intercluster empire.😂
@@MardrukZeiss cool your jets, there's no one to rob out there.
That's those primates for you. But hey, mammals are weird, even those leaf lickers.
@MardrukZeiss what plan, they can't even plan lunch.
Economies of scale applied to interplanetaries empires lol
More probably there wouldn't be a single world governement at any point on earth, it's really hard to get everybody to agree to that and you don't need to create a world governement in the first place.
This channel pairs so beautifully with my Stellaris playthrough 😂
Don't forget about the templin institute
You should try Distant Worlds 2, it's waaay better
@@jessegauthier6985 I will
@@carlrodalegrado4104 indeed. I get many of my RP's from them
I have over 3k hours in stellaris, distant worlds 2 is awesome. Much more detailed than stellaris
"A negative dollar bill"
I assure you Isaac, my bank balance has on more than one occasion proven the existence of such a concept.
I've seen those before, I call them bills and debts.
😝
So let's compare:
"Payable to the bearer in silver on demand"
vs.
"Federal Reserve Note"
Which one are you more 'positive' about?
@@mill2712 Yes exactly. A dollar note* means you have a dollar. You cannot have a negative dollar note. You can have both debts and credit on a spreadsheet but not physically, which I think was Isaac Arthur's point. A negative account balance can only exist in the abstract.
*(Actually does the US have single dollar notes or is that only coins with 5 dollar notes being smallest?)
your dollar note is also abstract. what you might do with it is constantly variable.@@VainerCactus0
In Dune, the Empire claims to rule a million worlds but the known space of the setting only extends a few hundred light-years. A million worlds probably isn't a long shot.
Asimov's Foundation series *really* lowballed it on scale, though.
In fairness to Asimov, when he started writing the foundation series, a billion was 10 to the 12th power, not 10 to the 9th power like it's used today. Now that's called a "long billion".
@joshuarichardson6529 plus Asimov tended to lowball _a lot_ of disturbing shit, so...
@@joshuarichardson6529 Wow how did I never hear of this in decades of reading Asimov. Thanks for the info.
One thing this video reminds me of is one of the reasons Western Rome collapsed: many of its provinces and people just stopped caring. The central government in Rome could barely afford to garrison a frontier province in Northeastern Gaul, so the people who lived there became responsible for their own defence, nor invest in infrastructure so the locals didn'tget any benefit from being part of the empire, nor could the empire effectively tax the region, so for the people in said province the Empire didn't exist, or at the very least, didn't matter.
Rome had many more problems than simply not being able to properly govern all its territorys.
@@Noahloveless1 I know, that's why I said it was one of the reasons
Some regions kept begging for Rome to come to their aid and only abandoned the idea of being Roman generations after Roman power had left the area.
@Arkantos117 yep, it varied a lot per region. Hell, the Roman Senate was only disbanded 50 years after the city Rome was conquered and the last Emperor deposed.
And many provinces invited "barbarian" tribes and mercenaries, the Foederati, to settle within roman borders in order to shore up defences. Giving their chieftains and Kings roman titles for the prestige, which eventually evolved into Feudal titles (like Count, or the French version Comte, comes from Comnitas; "Companion (of the Emperor/King)" or Duke coming from Dux, a title of a late roman military commander)
One of the most interesting concepts for an interstellar empire in the absence of FTL was in the 2019 episode "Making Suns" on this channel. Packing a billion .25 solar mass red dwarfs together in a mega cluster with communication times of a month and travel times of less than a year. That always seemed the most plausible way a massive empire could maintain cohesion and centralized control without FTL.
Define worlds loooool, in Halo the Covenant's capital was a mega structure with an ancient, wrecked, forerunner ship as the power supply. One thing I did like about Halo was that even though they had FTL, their depictions of aliens and their motivations for invading were not stupid. The Covenant invaded because of internal politics, their religion, and the fact that humanity's ancestors were heavily favored by an ancient race of aliens. "Our gods said so" is far more believable a motivation than "we want a resource that's scarce on your planet but abundant in your system."
Have you not read Contact Harvest? The covenant attacked humans because their Forerunner detecting tech revealed that humans are the descendents of them. So bringing the humans into the covenant would have threatened the control of the Prophets. Thus they suppressed the information from all except the Brutes amd declared war on humans.
Now, I want to see a SFIA video on Stellar Jihad.
Why did my comment get deleted? 😑
@@Noahloveless1 at a guess a word in it triggered the spam filter or it had a word UA-cam doesn't like.
It sure beats the "aliens after water" trope
Just seeing the title already made me so excited 😊
Video title made me so excited ❤
The relationship between England and its many colonies, including the United States, provides multiple models for the creation and devolution of an interstellar empire -- especially when you consider the time scale of travel when England founded its 1st colony and the time needed to go to their Pacific holdings before the Suez Canal -- and even after.
The number of inhabited Planets shrinks rapidly once the Death Star comes around
And the raw materials that can be used to take it down increases exponentially every time it's used.
Inhabited Planets: Exist -Doomsday weapons: -Here we come!
Before the Death Star, there was Dark Star.
I’m not convinced humanity would or could sustain an empire of billions of planets, even with FTL. Our history of empires and geopolitics in general up to this point certainly doesn’t support it. And that’s less a technology problem than it is an aspect of human nature. Not to mention there are still vast wildernesses and undeveloped areas on Earth right now - and we’ve had plenty of time and capability to do so.
I'd be willing to bet that by planet 3 of humanity's empire(s), a better species/robot model would end up simply taking over. And by planet/planet sized object 10, that species/robot model would stop calling itself humanity entirely. In other words, humanity or anything calling itself humanity wouldn't expand past the Kuiper Belt before ceasing to be recognizable as humanity. There would certainly be individuals and groups of traveling dolphins or space toasters leaving the system that still call themselves part of humanity, but there wouldn't be any real unified empire of humanity leaving the system.
I was thinking exactly this. Historically, once colonies developed beyond a certain point, they wanted, and eventually got, independence. And that was with travel times measured in months.
With a travel time of decades, those planetary colonies will pretty soon be ruling themselves.
Yeep, that's the main reason to many people doesn't agree with to establish interstellar empire. However, if more independent planets are some kinds of confederation or the other type of governments, they usually would choose to establish civilian governments and military governments, and they supporting one empire as historical Royal culture. Moreover, interstellar civilizations are far beyond to conquer territories and somewhat colonial period, including geopolitical tensions. In brief, they're highly advanced and peaceful to avoid wars or ideological conflicts damaging their development process.
@@linz8291 Humans will always have ideological conflicts because we don't all think the same or have the same beliefs on governance, economic policy, or spiritual beliefs. The best method we probably have is indeed a type of "confederation" where people of similar mind on these topics can have their own societies - but even then, some group(s) will begin seeking power and the impression of their worldview unto others.
"What is the grievance?" If they're dependent on Earth for science and entertainment, probably the ending to the latest George RR Martin TV adaptation.
GoT or the new one?
I think the latest one is what he meant@@somethinglikethat2176
I think it's somewhat unfair to always assume a lack of scale based on ignorance of the size of space. The size of colonization is not always related to this; population growth, politics, restrictions on ftl in the setting and thousands of other factors dictate this. Even in Warhammer where the scale is closer, this is still a problem.
Yup. Just because there are potentially billions of planets to colonize doesn't mean all of them will be by some empire or another.
Agreed 100%. This is clearly true based on all of our history up to this point.
I love how this series has basically been prepping me, for years, to keep up with the plot of The Three Body Problem. 🙏
Isaac - any chance you've thought about the minimum requirements to maintain a colony of humans? How about minimum animals required for a colony? How about food stuffs - like how many different kinds of plants would we need? There would have to be elected governments, power systems, sewage systems, education systems, health systems, travel & distribution systems, communication systems... even entertainment systems... and I guess by *system* I mean *industry.* I'm curious as to how the population would be divided to cover these various systems or industries. Just how many telephone cleaners would we actually need from each generation? Is there a minimum number of weather satellites we would need? How about rocket scientists to maintain our space transportation system?
500 non related humans are all you need to repopulate exponentially without fear of inbreeding
Oh yes, it's quite a lot too, unless you're bringing frozen/digital DNA along you need O'Neil Cylinder sized ships to even have a decent shot at bringing along most of Earth's species, and even there it's assuming you're probably not bringing most, just a wide enough sample to fill your ecological niches decently and eventually diverge into new ones. We talked about it more in Exporting Earth but frankly could do many episodes on it.
@@isaacarthurSFIA Thanks Isaac! Happy Easter
ergo, it won't be humans.
"and it can come back grab more people and colonize more planets"
nope, we all know and agree that any colony ship must have a self destruct mechanism that destroys the ship a few days after the first people leave it...
To be fair, most SciFi lore has colony ships get disassembled for building materials by the colonists, which sounds reasonable.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC Yeah, when you consider just how much refined material a colony ship consists of, let alone the advanced components which can be repurposed for the colony, it makes a lot of sense. Biggest issue would be needing to construct the colony ship to allow controlled deorbiting and even then you can make compromises by having large landers which do the actual offloading onto the planet whilst the colony ship itself gets converted into an orbital station or shipyard.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC It sounds reasonable unless you really think about it.
Your colony ship is capable of supporting everyone's needs, it has manufacturing capabilities, and most importantly its in orbit, as there is no reason to design it to be able to land.
You can use it while setting up all the other necessary infrastructure for the planet. Though by doing so that removes most the hardship and environmental factors that the story teller is trying to overcome.
Thank you Arthur!!!
This talk on multi-planetary empires makes me think about how logistics would work in a multi-star network.
In other words, how would the life of a "space trucker" be? Would it be fully automated? How would they deliver bio-supplies (food, plants, etc)? How would the ships organize deliveries?
Edit: Nvm you already did a vid on space freighters on Nebula.
Although there is already a theory about an Alcubierre engine that does not require negative mass, new equations say that this is possible, although such a ship would still have a mass equal to Jupiter. this is a lot, but it is already realizable within the framework of current physics. And perhaps the Cosimir effect could help us create an effect similar to negative mass if we were able to scale this effect on a larger scale
They still haven't figured out a way to avoid getting cooked by Hawking Radiation
In case of multiplanetary empire without FTL whole structure would be very unstable , in case of attack reinforcementsn will never arive in time
i think the opposite will be come... if a Message from "central command" will need 10 years to reach you, and "reinforcements" will take 100 years... the government structure would be build around that... on the long run i could see the return of feudalism to central and a variety of everything to local structures... would be interesting to see the local president, that had to be confirmed by vote almost everything he does or decides bending his knees to a central command that want 10 % of population for further colonization somewhere else...
Perfect for a bedtime wind down after a long late shift. Thanks again!
Thanks for this video.
Hope this stays up, youtube needs a real programmer for its algorithms.
Great video Issac and team! The visuals, writing, art, and sound are all stunning. I once pondered the possibility of a universe-wide Direct Democracy. However, considering the limitations of known physics and the speed of light for data transmission, I concluded that such a system wouldn't be feasible beyond 200 AU due to the vast distances involved and the light lag of information. I also realized that temporary government services would have to be measured in hours and from the time that those government services started to keep everything standardized. I did have fun creating a new constitution, bill of rights and "Federation Papers" to explain the thinking of the prior two documents. Those 3 documents were 45 pages in all and took into account the rise of sentient AI, cybernetically enhanced individuals, and alien species living under the same government. My thinking is that governments past the Kieper belt (and other systems), could use these papers as the base template for their own government. Anyways, it was a really fun thought experiment and I'm glad that project is done.
If you're interested, here's the Universal Bill of Rights I created as part of the thought experiment above:
Universal Bill of Rights
Preamble: Recognizing that all sentient beings, regardless of their origin, have inherent rights and dignity, this Bill of Rights is established to protect the fundamental freedoms and liberties of all sentient beings.
Article 1: Right to Life and Liberty - All Sentient Beings have the right to life, liberty, and security of person.
Article 2: Right to Freedom and Dignity - All sentient beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of friendship. Slavery, torture, and degrading treatment are not permitted under any circumstances.
Article 3: Right to Equality and Non-Discrimination - all sentient beings are equal before the law and are entitled to equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination based on species, biology, culture, politics, place, color, gender, sexual orientation, language, religion, national, social origin, property, birth, cybernetics contained, self-aware artificial intelligence or any other discriminatory factors. Sentient Life is defined as the ability to have one own’s thoughts, goals and the ability to vote without outside direction on matters of policies as part of this direct democratic body.
Article 4: Right to Freedom of Thought and Expression - Sentient life has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion, including the freedom of opinion and expression, seeking and sharing information and ideas across borders. They can change their religion or belief and express it in teaching, worship, and observance, alone or with others, in public or private.
Article 5: Right for Sentient Beings to Bear Arms - The right to bear arms cannot be infringed as it enables sentient beings to defend themselves against tyrannical leaders who threaten their rights.
Article 6: Right to Peace - Sentient beings have the right to live in peace, which cannot be achieved in a war. If a sentient being starts a war, their life will be forfeited, and governing bodies have a duty to prevent further casualties. Wars cause misery, and all governing bodies are directed to prevent them.
Article 7: Right to Justice - Sentient beings have the right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures, and warrants can only be issued with probable cause approved by the court. Sentient beings cannot be arbitrarily arrested, detained, exiled, or held without a trial by their peers and they cannot be tried twice for the same offence nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. Sentient beings have the right to due process of law, including a speedy and public trial, the right to know the charges, the right to confront witnesses, and the right to an attorney. Sentient beings are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and cannot be punished excessively. The death penalty is only allowed for war crimes or starting a war.
Article 8: Right to Privacy - Sentient beings have the right to privacy and protection against unlawful interference with their privacy, family, home, personal information and reputation.
Article 9: Right to Freedom of Movement - Sentient life has the right to freedom of movement, to leave and return to their political realm. They can seek political asylum from persecution, but not for non-political crimes.
Article 10: Right to Education- All Sentient Beings have the right to attend free education that focuses on the development of the entire being, including civics, ethics, critical thinking, problem-solving skills, good health, financial and relationship habits and principles for achieving happiness. Education shall promote respect for sentient rights, understanding, tolerance, and friendship amongst all sentients for the maintenance of peace. It shall teach peaceful and respectful disagreement resolution, essential for a well-functioning direct democracy. Parents have a prior right to choose their children's education.
Article 11: Right to live within a meritocracy - In this direct democracy, economic goods, services, job promotions, and political power shall be based on talent, effort, and achievement, rather than discriminatory factors like wealth, social class, friendships or family.
Article 12: Right to Work and Fair Treatment - Sentient beings have the right to work and free choice of employment under just and favorable conditions with protection against unemployment, with equal pay for equal work and voluntary trade union participation. The government will provide suitable work or free education if needed, along with an allowance to cover existing living costs for up to 6000 hours. The allowance should be enough to cover existing living expenses to maintain current housing, transportation, nutrition and medical services, including access to the information network. This service can only be used once every 24000 hours. If the sentient being is found through the court to be unable to care for themselves through reeducation or employment, then the necessary basics will be provided to ensure sustainment of life. This service should be under the highest of scrutiny to prevent abuse and waste. Penalties for abusing the system should be kept high. Everyone has the right to rest, leisure, reasonable working hours, and periodic holidays with pay.
Article 13: Right to Health - All Sentient Beings have the right to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health. They have the right to access to healthcare services, including reproductive healthcare, without discrimination.
Article 14: Right to Property - All Sentient Beings have the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
Article 15: Right to Culture and Science - All Sentient Beings have the right to participate in cultural life and to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications. They have the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary, or artistic production of which they are the author.
Article 16 - Right to Partnership- Sentient beings have the right to form partnerships, families, and to receive equal rights and protection, including during partnership and at its dissolution. Partnerships require free and full consent. Society and all political bodies must protect families, and provide special care and assistance for motherhood and childhood. All children, regardless of their birth circumstances, shall receive the same social protection.
Article 17 - Right to Public Services - All Sentient Beings have the right to equal access to public services.
Article 18: Right to a Safe and Sustainable Environment - Sentient beings have the right to a safe and sustainable environment, including access to information about environmental conditions that may affect their health or well-being.
Article 19: The right of citizens to freely express thoughts and opinions, whether orally, written, or through any media, shall not be hindered or restricted by government interference. The freedom of the press, the right to assemble peaceably, and the ability to petition the government for a redress of grievances, are fundamental liberties guaranteed to all and shall not be violated.
Article 20: Every child, regardless of parental status, is entitled to fundamental rights and protections. Children who are not wanted by their parents, or who are placed up for adoption, shall have the right to safe and nurturing care, education, healthcare, housing, nutritious food, clean water, and security from abuse and neglect. The state shall ensure that these children are provided with opportunities for stable, loving, and permanent family environments, either through adoption or suitable guardianship. Their best interests shall be the primary consideration in all decisions affecting their welfare and future. Furthermore, it is the duty of the state to guarantee these children access to quality education and adequate living conditions, ensuring their holistic development and integration into society.
Article 21: The pursuit of progress and innovation is a fundamental right and essential for the advancement of society. The government shall not unduly hinder or obstruct technological and scientific development, creative endeavors, or the introduction of new ideas and methodologies. However, this right is balanced with the government's responsibility to protect public safety, health, and welfare. Regulations or interventions by the government in the realm of innovation must be justified, transparent, and focused on safeguarding the public, ensuring ethical standards, and protecting the environment, while fostering an atmosphere conducive to growth and advancement. Importantly, these regulations or interventions shall not violate any other freedoms guaranteed in this Bill of Rights. The government is also tasked with facilitating access to education and resources necessary for innovation, ensuring that progress benefits society as a whole
Article 22: The enumeration in the Constitution and of these rights, shall not be used to deny or disparage other rights already retained by sentient beings.
Article 23: Unassigned powers in the Constitution are reserved for local governments or their respective sentient beings.
Article 24: Sentient beings have the right to remedy for any violated rights.
This Universal Bill of Rights affirms the dignity and worth of all sentient beings and recognizes the inherent rights that every sentient being possesses. It is the responsibility of all individuals and governments to uphold these rights and to ensure that they are not violated or infringed upon.
And here's the Constitution of Universal Direct Democracy as part of the thought experiment above:
Constitution for a Universal Wide Direct Democracy
Preamble: We, the sentient beings of the universe, establish this Constitution for a Universal Wide Direct Democracy to ensure that all individuals, regardless of their location or species, have an equal voice and an equal vote in the decision-making processes that affect their lives. We affirm the principles of democracy, equality, justice, and sentient rights, and we commit ourselves to the peaceful resolution of conflicts and the protection of the universe and its resources for present and future generations.
Article 1: Establishment of the Universal Wide Direct Democracy - The Universal Wide Direct Democracy is established as the governing body of the universe, with the power to make laws, levy taxes, and conduct interstellar affairs. All Sentient Beings have the right to participate in the direct democratic process, regardless of their species, planetary origin or any other discriminatory factors.
Article 2: Powers of the Universal Wide Direct Democracy - The powers of the Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall be exercised through the direct participation of all sentient beings, who shall have the right to propose, debate, and vote on all laws and policies that affect them. All decisions shall be made through a majority vote, with no restrictions on the number of proposals or the frequency of elections. History teaches us that cooperation and diplomacy can resolve conflicts and promote peace. Building strong relationships between political bodies and working together to address common challenges can lead to a better future.
Article 3: Protection of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms - The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall protect the fundamental rights and freedoms of all individuals, including the right to life, liberty, and security of person; the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion; the right to freedom of opinion and expression; the right to privacy; the right to freedom of assembly and association; and the right to access to justice and a fair trial by a jury of the sentients’ peers. No one may be compelled to belong to an association. History shows us that sentient rights leads to oppression, conflict, and suffering. Protecting and promoting sentient rights is essential for creating a just and peaceful society.
Article 4: Election and Term of Office of the Speaker - The Speaker of the Worldwide Direct Democracy shall be elected through a direct democratic process, with no restrictions on the number of candidates or political parties. The term of office of shall be 24,000 hours from being sworn in. The sentient beings shall have the right to recall their representatives at any time. History shows us that great leaders with a clear vision can inspire people to achieve great things. Leaders who prioritize the common good and work to create a better future for all can make a lasting impact.
Article 5: Judicial System and Protection of Sentient Rights - The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall establish an independent judiciary to ensure the protection of sentients’ rights and the rule of law. All individuals shall have the right to a fair and impartial trial, and no one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful detention or punishment. History has shown us that intolerance and prejudice can lead to discrimination, persecution, and even genocide. We must be vigilant against these forces and work to promote understanding and acceptance of diversity.
Article 6: Protection of the Environment and Planetary Resources The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall protect the environment and natural resources of all planets and star systems for present and future generations. All individuals shall have the right to a clean and healthy environment, and the Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall take measures to prevent pollution and promote sustainable development.
Article 7: Protection of Cultural Diversity The Universal Wide Direct Democracy shall protect and promote cultural diversity, recognizing the value of different cultures and the need to preserve cultural heritage. All individuals, whether human or alien, shall have the right to participate in cultural life and to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications.
Article 8: Amendments to the Constitution This Constitution may be amended through a direct democratic process, with the approval of a majority of the people. Amendments shall not infringe upon the fundamental rights and freedoms protected by this Constitution.
Conclusion: This Constitution establishes a Universal Wide Direct Democracy that empowers all individuals, regardless of their species or planetary origin, to directly participate in the decision-making processes that affect their lives. It affirms the principles of democracy, equality, justice, and sentient rights, and it is based on the belief that all individuals have the capacity to contribute to the common good of the universe.
I love you Content Isaac and I want to one day make a Universe with your SFIA as the Inspiration!
Thanks, was just about to to try to go to sleep. Now I know it's assured. Love this channel and your voice ❤
I wish so badly that I could see the day where humans are living all over the solar system. Welp, thems the brakes!
Happy Easter to you, your family and the SFIA Comminuty Issac!! Can’t wait to dive into this one when I go to bed tonight!!
🐇🐣🙏❤️
Happy Easter everyone, great and very thoughtful provoking video, keep the content coming my friend!
Isaac - at 6:43 you mentioned O'Neill Colonies. EVERY star system is a candidate for that type of settlement becaue every star system should have asteroids and comets as the source of construction materials. Once we are established in some solar system we might paraterraform everything . . . building a Dyson Swarm.
A "Deepness in the Sky" is the best book about the challenges of space trade ive ever read. Its a lomg read but a fantastic seq-prequal to "A Fire upon the Deep" which is literally ny second favorite book of all time.
"No Negative Dollar Bill outside the spread sheet" - never heard that expression, brilliant!! 😎👍
lets go!!!!!!!!! i love when you upload
"To think of these stars that you see overhead at night, these vast worlds which we can never reach. I would annex the planets if I could; I often think of that. It makes me sad to see them so clear and yet so far."
--- Cecil Rhodes, infamous British imperialist.
This topic is so interesting! I’m saving this
I love new videos! Thank you.
great discussion
Nothing like waking up to a new SFIA video. ❤
Great Sci-Fi Sunday vjdeo Isaac.
The Sun masses at 300,000 earths. Disassembling it even only halfway would yield 150,000 earths around a red dwarf star. FTL travel wouldn't be necessary for a Multi-planetary empire
Just need to get cracking on the alchemy to turn all that hydrogen into something more solid.
What an amazing tie :D
_Hell, it's about time._
Kinda reminds me some of the old RPG Traveller 2300 AD. Had many worlds that had been colonized by several nations, each with their own colony and some with combined colonies depending on the treaties they had. Even had a few Corporate Colonies and Alien Enclaves on some.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can I get the name of the music track that starts at about 10:10 in the video? It adds great atmosphere to the content, and I'd love to listen to it if it's available somewhere.
Aw heck... Guess I'll stay up a bit later so I can watch this gem. 🤷
Ive been thinking for my own world and i decided what would make most sense without ftl, i came to the conclusion that there were just a few kinds of viable multi-planet empires.
My favourite form would be a trade league style empire where members have local autonomy but have come to agreements to help maintain infrastructure and control trade (for example by occupying legrange points) as well as maintain mutualy defense and the such. A sort of Delian league model, lots of room for interesting drama too, for example a group trying to centralize the league under their control, or an outside power trying to intervene
Some of this sounds an awful lot like 'how to build a future' by John Barnes
Love the 40k reference and photo. 😅
in both gundam wing and wall-e they go about that once you finally get it working, living in a space colony is actually a lot easier than living on earth
and i can see that being true and planets just being left behind by advanced civilizations
I love StarGate and similar fast travel concepts, i cant wait.
SFIA always makes my Nerdcraft Sundays better.
Once we start colonizing other worlds we should reserve one for cats, so they can stop planning to take over ours.
you fool, giving them an entire planet will only give them the resources to take over more planets!
@@perpetualsystems they will need to evolve thumbs first, so we have a few thousand years at least…
Cats always have servants
@@1650th “I for one welcome our new cat overlords”
@@1650th And their human servants are so habituated to service that after their last master passes on, rather than enjoying their freedom they will seek out another feline overlord to serve.
Hearing your exploration of the transport, sustainment, and governance challenges, it seems likely that we would first have large space habitats in our own solar system, with interstellar resource mining missions performed by autonomous machines once we start to exhaust our local materials.
One note on space long distance communication.
I think long distance communication will be viable with quantum entanglement.
This would solve the long distance communication lag problem.
We probably may use it for voice and visuals. Maybe even remotely control robots and machines.
It's just a thought about this problem.
Thanks for making these various topics debatable in your videos. 👍
Entanglement can’t be used to communication as the output from it is random and nothing you do to one entangled particle affects the other.
@schakiarligonde1736 this is according to the current knowledge. Who knows what could be done with it in the future. Who knows what kind of tech we will discover and invent in the future we cannot even begin to conceive at the present. So bluntly say cannot means restricting yourself possibilities.
In my imagine empire. There are four stages of my military. Militia, PDF, homeguard, Standing.
Militia are form from villages to cities. Militia don't get paid, except only in goverment provided ammo, fuel, and food. PDF are form from all the population of the planet. PDF also in charge off their local planetary orbit. Homeguard is in charge of all their local star system. Standing military is use for offensive purposes only.
I do like the idea of organizing your interstellar empire's military like that. Though here's how I'd do mine and my thoughts.
This comment will go over non state armed groups.
- Militias
These would be organized into two parts. Organized and planetary sponsored. And unorganized independent militias.
Organized militias are government sanctioned armed groups who receive logistics from from their local planetary government/government inside the planet like a city or province. (Equivalent of a state, country, coalition in that planet.) They are however, not beholden on a federal level and cannot conscript members. They are all volunteers but it is commonly seen as community service so it can be used to lessen/nullify low level jail sentences and misdemeanors. First response is also considered a part of the organized militia.
Unorganized militias do not receive any government assistance and are not required to register to any government institution. However their legality can determine if they are considered militia or armed gang, insurgents, or terrorists. Though because of that, no one knows how many there are on each world, province, or even city. It can range from one man or family to a neighborhood watch, to a group of people. The weapons they use are limited to what they can buy and what they can make and are paid for by individuals or private entities/benefactors. And some governments have laws on the books on that. They're extremely common on frontier worlds. Large ones over 10,000 are considered paramilitaries.
(The difference between paramilitaries and organized militias can be blurry. Especially considering who they serve and who's paying. My definition of Paramilitaries may change.)
- Mercenaries and private security forces
Mercs by my interstellar government's definition are non-state for profit military organizations and companies whose sole purpose is to provide support for conflicts. There are a number of mercenary companies out there and many are very large and influential. A sanctioned mercenary company can be as well armed as some systems. Sancioned mercenaries can fight in conflicts sanctioned by their government within and outside their faction and allied/non aligned factions and can receive contracts.
Security companies aren't companies all under themselves but are typically hired by or are a subsidiary under another company or their government. They do not fight in wars. (Usually.) But protect people, places, things, and entities. They are heavily regulated and audited as to prevent their benefactors from having too much power.
Both are quite regulated and both are common tools against piracy.
For mid state military organization (Province/country, planetary, system level military)
- Intra-planetary militaries
These are similar to the militaries of countries and unions of earth today. They're common among large colony planets that have subdivisions or non unified entities. These are the lowest level military divisions allowed to use conscripts. Funding is based on taxes, some from the empire at large, and each major world over 10,000,000 are required to at least have a portion of its citizens in service. Any military from world under 5,000,000 is considered a militia/militias.
- PDFs
These are militaries under the flag of a planet or system whose population is heavily centered around a single planetary government/planetary government coalition. (20% or less of the system's population live off world and those lesser populated worlds have under 1 million inhabitants/rely heavily on the host planet.) Besides mercenaries and private security forces, they are allowed to have fleets in orbit or patrolling their system. These are also the lowest level military organization that can be called for interstellar conflicts by a sector fleet or higher without consulting the government in times of necessity. Anything lower must be green lit by that planet's government. (But such an action is always put under review by the high military authority if not already sanctioned.)
- SDFs (System Defense Forces)
They're functions are similar to PDFs, however these militaries have populations whose colonies in the system are more spread throughout multiple other planets, moons, and habitats. (Over 20 percent of the system population.) And each planet has their own PDF available.
They come in two types. United systems and coalition systems.
United systems while mostly self sufficient and have their own government and militaries, still combine forces under a single unit for the benefit of the system.
Coalition systems are more independent of each other and conduct joint operations as if they were allied yet separate countries. Each with agreements and conditions.
I like the idea of "manually adjusted" orbits. It's like we're all going to get out and push 😂
Another discussion about stellar empires without ever mentioning the reality of the distance between stars- the average diameter to distance ratio is 50 million, meaning interstellar travel will very likely NEVER get done.
We need a scyfy series dealing with multi planetary empires because it could be a long running series.
This was a fun episode.
In the midst of re-listening to The Foundation series for the 3rd time as this video dropped; currently on Foundation's Edge. Interesting how panpsychism gets presented as the ultimate method for unifying galactic life, even in an FTL universe.
25:24 Noo! Denmark and Norway has had it far too good, for far too long. We will reclaim them, for the glory of Great Sweden!
Low hanging fruit worlds? I like that! There should be a whimsical classification method such as top of the heap worlds and bottom of the barrel worlds and dispeptic worlds and so forth. Why not?
Good video
Cool. Thanks for sharing.
Slightly disappointed there was no mention made of multi-planet federal Republics.
I like the idea of the U.S., specifically, expanding beyond Earth, to include new states, territories and other administrative entities off Earth.
It seems reasonable to imagine that if, say, there were several hundred thousand U.S. citizens living on the moons of Neptune and in chandelier cities in its upper atmosphere, they might want to organize into the state of Keola (named after Jennifer Keola, commander of the first expedition to reach Neptune).
Congress might conclude that with a speed of light round trip lag of over eight hours, Keola would need to be more autonomous than Delaware or Jennifer Keola's home state of Samoa, and instead of granting statehood, would propose to admit Keola as an Autonomous Territory, as New California (the moons of Uranus) had been fifteen years earlier.
Well, just a thought.
Planetary movement due to the influence of other planets and stellar output and how they affect the Goldilocks Zone for future exploration and as a history over the past millions of years.
"Senior leadership", no pun intended 😂😂😂
As we fight over which geriatric patient runs our country....
Riding a line lol, they prefer keeping this comment section apolitical. That being said though, I’d rather have a 500 year old future geezer running the country, rather than a 70-90 year old one in the current era.
Ah well, there's always Stellaris.
Considering how the government operates today. I fear that a multiplanetary empire would be a level of corrupt and tyrannical we could never comprehend. I would love for us to go beyond this world and explore the cosmos. But I fear the worst of us will rule over it if they even let us leave this rock.
At the rates of inflation we've seen in the last few years, i wouldn't be that surprised to see the value of the dollar turn negative in the not too distant future...
Excellent presentation...but did I miss he part about even an Earth mass planet, orbiting within the "habitable zone" of a Sun like star with comparable elements' presence, still needs a relatively large mass "moon" orbiting it to engender similar positive mechanical effects on that planet''s own mechanical processes to be of benefit to nursing developing technologically advanced species... ... ...?
In densely packed star clusters, wouldn't the near proximity of those multiple nearby stars disrupt planetary orbits?
That Foundation series is pretty good.
The first half was great imo.
In Hammer's Slammers, there is interplanetary colonization but no unity whatsoever, other than the oddly omnipresent Earth-based Bonding Authority.
24:50 oh you mean metric system.
Its already in place. Except for usa.
Mr. Arthur. Thank you as always for an amazing video.
Once again you make me think.
You point out that technology does not make despots less likely. I would go further and say that technology makes despots *more likely* . I believe that it is the communications and coordination of its forces is what makes a despot more likely.
Consider a certain former president's followers and the way he and his spread their messages. A leader who can hop on a jet to travel to his next rally is going to much more affective than one that has to ride in a wagon.
A despot with faster ships and agi 'supporters' would likely have an easier time than one with our current computers and maybe light-sails (even if powered by lasers...)
This might even be part of the solution to the Fermi Paradox. Despotic empires as you point out would have a limit to volume of space. Which would make them harder to detect maybe.
Thank again for an intellectually inspirational video.
It would be really funny if some rival ethnic groups wanting to get away from each other end up accidentally colonizing the same star system.
What is to stop a civilization from creating their own nuclear reactor that orbits a planet and provides it with the necessary "sunlight", needed to provide the planet with the needed solar energy for terraform it? What is to stop a civilization from de-orbiting moons, asteroids, and comets, and crashing them in to planets to terraform them?
Perhaps we can MAKE the exotic materials required for FTL? Just because we have not found something in nature, does not mean it is impossible. Perhaps we can learn how to assemble fundamental particles or even create new types of quarks etc. Of course understanding the fundamental properties of space time is a requirement for creating exotic materials... and we still have a long way to go before gaining this level of knowledge 😅
What's the difference between antimatter and negative matter?
Over the course of hundreds of millions of years, your empire of stars will be randomly shuffled about the galaxy, due to different orbits around the galaxy..
Your capitol, or other key worlds, may be in the heart of enemy territory in time. Or theirs might be next to yours.
Haha the same thing for me i also liked the cleon part of the tv show but even though it wasnt in the books - it had something of the books :>
Multi-planet, much less multi star system “empires” would probably be something more like Great Britain and its former colonies. Obedience to the empire would be entirely ceremonial (flags, sports competitions, cultural exchanges etc). Direct control over other planets would completely impractical and not particularly desirable. But a completely voluntary lip service paid to a unified empire might be useful as a way of maintaining continuity and for political expediency and stability.
on today's episode of Stellaris.
I thought Dune only had like 5 planets? The spice planet, the home planet of the quild, the planet of the Harkonans, the planet of the Atraties, and a 5th one I can't remember.
I honestly just forgot what you were talking about halfway through the video. I would be happy to leave my house sometime, but I have no interest in leaving earth. I probably won't even leave the U.S. Canada is really scary these days. I guess I can understand why people in other countries think earth is the worst place to be. But they've never really considered what life on a spaceship would be like.
Give no FTL or slower FTL I wouldn't be surprised to see nobility poping up once again. Le'ts not forget that most nobility was made from conquerors that took over a piece of land and turned the natives into serfs.
Love you isaac! Please consider becoming our hegononic world emporor! We need you!
-edit, multi galactic emperor
We have robots on benus and bars...dies that count for us?
Post scarcity, I can't imagine any path there, with our current world. What transitions us to that point?
That will be the problem. Where to Go. You would need a clearly designated destination as the void would hold only terror.
ISSAAC- HOW FAST WOULD A SUBLIGHT COLONY SHIP GO- ASSUMING PERHAPS FUSION ORNEVEN ATIMATTER ENGINES
I wish to govern multiple planets and systems.
How would civilization be look like if evolved in star systems with 2 live planets?
very interesting.
Historically, many of Earth's larger empires crumbled as a result of logistical over-extension. And applying the square-cube law to that implies that a government as we currently understand them would have some pretty hard limits on size.
Which isn't to say that couldn't come up with some new form of government, but I'm not aware of any fictional examples of something that would apply.
Probably time is the key issue, so it depends on how fast a central government can respond to an attack or revolt in a fringe of the empire. I think this applies the same to Earth's past as well as a galactic empire. I suppose will also matters, how much the empire wants to hold on, vs how badly people want to separate.
Centralization was always an important factor, cultural cohesion of the ruling classes across time and place, the fewer demands the better. There remain some commonalities that help like the lasting influence of the Roman Empire.
Empires only function if there is some sort of trade mechanism. There isn’t much that’s worth transporting interplanetary let alone interstellar. Digital products such as knowledge, engineering blueprints, eduction and entertainment may be viable as at least they can be transferred at light speed, even if the transmission costs will be astronomical. Transferring goods of any kind is economically pointless. The transference of digital capital only makes sense only as an accounting system for the transference of digital goods.
I think when you're making many of these very valid points about why governing massive interstellar empires would be difficult and/or impossible, you're hinting at why the idea of "government" and the institution of state is doomed to fail ... the idea that some delegated group has to rule the rest of us by fear and force is a primitive mindset we've inherited from our ancestors, but it's one we will have to get rid of in order to attain the sort of glorious future we imagined here. We will have to learn to make "anarchism" work through creating a better post-scarcity society and world where people aren't inclined to commit crimes against their neighbors and we either cure or care for the mentally ill correctly. Even today, most people WANT a safe, stable and tranquil place to live ... but we also have a dark underbelly to society that is a side effect of systemic failures of the state and society itself. We simply have to fix that, somehow, and get rid of rulers and overlords. Otherwise, we will definitely destroy ourselves with the powerful tech we are already grasping at today ...
If we still have empires, let's hope we never get into space.
Im still waiting on detailed sifi books or even short stories written by mr Arthur
Off topic but I notice UA-cam doesn’t put our mixes for Isaac anymore. Anyone else notice that?