@@adamantiumbullet9215, For REAL!!! ☺️ In the Watchtower Cult, "Spirituality" equals how "Well-Indoctrinated" you are, how perfectly you "perform" according to your "Watchtower Cult Programming," and, most importantly, how LOYAL to the Cult you are!! 😵💫
I disassociated 14 years ago, and have been shunned ever since... voluntarily left. VOLUNTARILY chose to leave. For that, lost my mother, brother, sister, friends, husband and home. Its criminal.
I've been out for 20+ years and suffer the same losses, including my children. The process to get it ALL back is so very easy. You just have to sit quietly in the back for a few months and start again. They'll read your name and just as quickly as it was all ripped away, it will all be given back. AND I'D RATHER DIE! Isn't it amazing how once you see the matrix that is this organization, you simply cannot return to it, even to restore all of your relationships. Being away from it is that important and valuable.
Fortunately none of my family were in so when I slipped away no more was said to much did have a friend contact on a social basis for odd times over the years but he doesn't reply anymore even if you're asking hope you are well .. enough said
First time here, very impressed with your in depth knowledge of this destructive Cult. As a “ Born Again” Christian from the U.K. I have subscribed to your channel and thank you for all you do in exposing this dangerous group.
@@davesandyrobinson Thank you for your kind words, vote of confidence and subscribing to the channel 🙏🙏🙏 I'd love to hear more from a Born Again Christian on their perspectives on JWs teachings.
As an 'failed bible study student'.....the group is indeed dangerous, the folk knocking on your door are most likely the most well minding and kind heart people you're likely to ever meet.
@arneedlund8512 we've been trained all our lives to answer a knock on the door......its 2024, just ignore it and wait for your phone to ring, ignore that and go back to sleep.
@@markjones1337 sorry but it's worse than that. If something wake me up I can't sleep agen til next night. I need my mornings sleep to be helthy. I think allmost everyone that is sick are thinking the same. Acely I try to help all JWs that hate to knock on someones door early to. GB shud change that to. I did hate it when I was a JW. Allmost everyone do. Not everyone is brave enaf so speek up agens it da. It is a bad behaver. Very very very bad.
As usual, great video. It’s so interesting how in the 60s through the 2000s they had so much power because so many people were coming in that they could afford to enforce their abusive disfellowshipping policy. But now that they can’t afford the financial losses or the membership losses, they suddenly give a damn about abusive policies and have a “new arrangement.” I texted my father about my little brother who would not have been disfellowshipped under the new arrangement. I asked him if he thought that the governing body would send an apology letter for the year they made him suffer. No reply of course. Thanks again Chaka!
@@DiffiCULTChildhood Hey Jason. Thank you for your kind words and great points. Sorry to hear about your brother. It's just sad that most people are so indoctrinated they can't realise that these people are just making stuff up. Of course, there will never be an apology because WT is first and foremost a business and a corporation; to apologise is to accept liability. As you say, the more people vote with their feet the more likely there will be some reform as you can't operate a business with no customers.
No. Those men will never apologize. They know that if they do, then families who’ve experienced family members committing suicide, or those who survived the loss of family who did not take blood to save their lives, would go after them for crimes. Because what the GB has done in people’s lives is criminal, cruel, and unusual.
Authority abusers? The true God of the bible makes it clear that his people stay clear of wicked persons. An unrepentant sinner in God's earthly organization is considered wicked by God. You might want to take this up with the Almighty.
@@ronhansen8471the same almighty that INSPIRED the governing body to publish a watchtower years ago about the unbiblical practice of excommunication? Or is THAT God out of date?
@@ronhansen8471 Anointed Christians comprise a Spiritual Temple. The Apostle Paul warned “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?” The apostasy comes from WT leaders.
@@ronhansen8471 “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.” The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ. Jesus referred to Judas as the son of destruction. It is the same designation given to the man of lawlessness. This means that the man of lawlessness is a chosen one, as was Judas, in that, Judas was selected by Jesus as one of the 12 apostles. Christendom has been marinating in apostasy for centuries, to say that the clergy must apostatize first before the presence of Christ is meaningless. The apostasy that must come first must come from within Christ’s congregation of anointed persons; yes, from the leadership; in other words, from among those taking the lead. Obviously, we can not expect the Governing Body to announce this kind of new light.
It is only designed with court cases and how they look to the courts in mind. They are trying to make themselves look less controversial and toxic. They are and will gradually remove the type of language that makes courts decide against them, the toxic language must step by step be replaced with less toxic terms that look better to the outside world. All to portray them as more mainstream and less extreme. Norway and now Sweden and others are slowly bringing in laws that will allow governments to remove their government funding and charity status as well as their having to pay taxes !!! This is the only way they are forced to change, threaten to take their charity status and government funding and tax exemptions. Money is the only thing that motivates them. They don't care what harm they do and so moral fibre doesn't come into it. It's all about status, money and reputation. Corporate gymnastics.
Watchtower is very, very sneaky! They may remove the harsh toxic language from their publications to appease the governments that support the religion with concessions and tax exemption but rest assured they will keep doing what they’ve always done in extreme secrecy with more “secret” elder’s manuals, ie, the real Bible of Watchtower, their manmade rules and regulations.
Terry Windsor, that's one way to look at it I suppose...but you could just as easily say that it went down like the watchtower said...namely that they studied the Bible more on the subject and concluded that when the Bible said ' don't eat with them it was referring to apostates. But here you are racing to impute negative conclusions
If they do scrap the policy I reckon almost half, maybe more, would leave. I know a lot are in because they are held hostage by the blackmail of losing family, friends, and employment in some cases, if they ever leave.
Wrong, we stopped reporting time to comply with state regulations and also the word is spreading so fast now it's impossible to count. For example look at India. It's estimated that every year 10 million more each year are getting access to the internet because of cheap throwaway old phones. Now even the poorest of the poor can hear the word.
@@Mark-ec3lp That’s because the scriptures says bad association spoils useful habits. No one holds anyone hostage as you call it. Besides they knew all this before getting baptized. They knew what disfellowship was all about. It’s because they will not take the responsibility on, for their wrong doing or no longer want to do it. They made their choice. No these ones want to take down others with them when they leave. These ones no longer want to play fair and expect others to join in with them. Because some people are weak don’t mean others are.
It’s amazing, actually disgusting how this GB wants not only control over their members but also wants to continue control over those who have left and desire to speak out, so frustrating to me. However the members are just as much to blame because they are the ones giving the GB the power of control by abiding by every rule that comes down the pike.
@@rebella5769 You're absolutely right. The members could just decide not to comply and there's absolutely nothing the Governing Body could do about it.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturnsit’s not that easy. They are so indoctrinated to believe that’s the only way to life. Also they will lose everybody that they care about!!! Following men not Christ!
I totally agree! If hundreds of thousands JW’s absolutely refused to accept every single thing Watchtower puppet masters told them to do that farcical religion would grind to a halt! What are the GB going to do…. disfellowship enormous numbers of their followers. That would bring on total global collapse of the borg!
When I first entered the cult of Jehovah's witnesses, first thing I had to do was shave my beard.. my, how things have changed. Now beards are permitted. And ladies wearing pants and slacks are okay. If shunning is abolished, the bullwork of their beliefs, that will be a sure sign Watchtower is tanking. An act of desperation.
The irony is that desperation is why they do it to begin with. SO many people are living as PIMO just to maintain their relationships and it's the DF policy that drives and controls people to that extent. But, a reversal would be fun to see, because the younger generations are riding the trend of finding religion to be an outdated control tactic all around.
@@joachimgoethe7864 that ought to tell you they are not as controlling as you think. Shaving your beard was never a control thing. We know everyone preached the good news in the organization . They did it to glorify God because people , especially the older generation thought a person should be well groomed. That’s all there was to it. It was never a control thing. The organization is not about controlling people it’s about bring glory to Gods name. They take that very seriously. You think people would appreciate that and see the good in it. Women have always worn pants and slacks at home and when they’re out and about. Because they try to good you put these people down for it. Did not Jesus tell us to be in agreement? Does it not say a house divided will fall. We are in agreement and the sheep follow. That’s how it’s supposed to work. That’s the way Jesus set up the congregation. Does the Bible ask who really is the discreet slave who gives their food at the proper time. Does the Bible tell you let the weeds and the wheat grow together for fear you may pull up some of the wheat? If these people are truly Gods people you could actually be fighters against God. Understand they also accused Jesus of being in a cult. Twisting his words.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q If it’s just because the older generation prefers clean shaven faces and it affects a whole organization, that’s absolutely about maintaining control 😂 If it were just a preference thing, facial hair wouldn’t have equaled loss of privileges like it did for decades. No scripture backs it up, just the opinion of 9 geriatrics in New York
@@PeggyHartman-e2q Which one of God's names are glorified by the borg.? None. And the only one of God's names used by witnesses has become a stench; A bad association.
Great video. I left JWs in 1997 and was atheist in about a year. My wife stayed with the JWs. I was very very fortunate that my dad was willing to talk to me about what i was learning and he even read crisis of conscience. It took the elders almost three years to get me. A friend who'd become an elder called me and asked if he could stop over to see me. I said sure Vince. Then he said he was coming with another elder. I said hang on, if you're coming here as my friend you're welcome but if this is an official JW thing forget about it. It turned out one of my old JW friends got df'd so when i quit i started hanging out with him and two other friends who'd also quit just weren't df'd. Somebody saw me shooting pool with my df'd friend. So a judicial committee was formed and i showed up with my df'd friend. They said what's he doing here? I said he's here as my witness to testify that we never associate with each other ever. They didn't think it was funny and wouldn't let him in. So i went in and they did their thing. The chairman had also been a friend of mine, a genuinely great guy, and he looked like he was going to cry the whole time. They tried reading crap from the Bible and i said I'd like to read something from it. I went to Proverbs something or other and read the passage where it says 'a friend will stick closer than a brother.' i told then he'd been an awesome friend and you guys were supposed to be my brothers and all you're doing is going to make life difficult for my wife. So i got df'd. I got their personal info and told them if they ever try to enforce my family from talking to me i wont sue the congregation, i won't sue the Watchtower, i will sue each of you personally. I went to tell my mother in law who'd if always got along great with and she told me while crying 'if i have to choose between you and Jehovah i have to choose Jehovah.' never spoke to me again. But my mom called me and told me nothing was going to change and nothing did. In fact i was homeless for a while and she let me stay at her house which is REALLY against the rules. The past couple of years she's been telling me about all the changes. Our family was pretty devout in the 70s but my parents always trusted me to not get in trouble and never micromanaged my life so i got really lucky. I think for the past couple of decades they saw it like going to any other church, it was just special to them. As far as salvation goes mom told me that she believes Jehovah will make everything right. I simply cannot imagine having to be shunned for 24 years now and what people have to go through. By the way my df'd friend and other two friends did some bad stuff. Hookers, drugs, theft, fraud. But they left me completely out of all of it. They respected that i didn't want to get involved, they could tell, so they never asked me to join in. The elders did approach one of my friends and he told them if they tried to do to him what they did to me he would kill their families, kill them, and then kill himself (he was a gun nut, even had an ak47). They left him alone but his parents shunned him anyway. About ten years later he was engaged to a great girl, had a great job, and blew his brains out.
I'm not and never a JW; I am studying the religion academically with no intention to join it. I am curious about two aspects of your story; thanks for sharing it. (1) You left JWs in 1997 yet your wife remained JW. I wonder about any pressure your wife received from JW people to divorce you or persuade you back into the faith. Further, how did your different-faith marriage affect your marriage and family life? (2) Your JW father was willing to read an anti-JW book to better understand you and your position as his son. Did your father risk his own JW membership by doing that? Did JW Elders discipline him for reading it? ~ These are sincere questions. I know enough about the JW religion to see problems in it. Occasionally yet rarely, my large employer hires a JW person who choses to remain socially isolated outside of job-related work (which I consider sad.) If your time permits, reply in this UA-cam forum. I plan to check back. I apologize if my questions, (1) and (2), are quite basic.
@@stevenparkin6486 hi thanks for asking the questions. In '97 I looked into "apostate" stuff online and found a message board that intended to foster reform amongst JW practices such as no blood, shunning and holidays. It was run by a very shadowy group whose participation was quite limited, nobody every found out who they were. It was ostensibly a bunch of Australian JWs who wanted their identities kept secret but their only participation was the guy who administered the website and a few random people who'd show up just to encourage people but that's it. Some of us speculated it was all one person or even controlled opposition. Anyway since the world wide web was young I visited other churches and Christian book stores and brought home a lot of stuff while not attending JW meetings anymore so my wife went to the elders about it. One day I can't home from work and all our stuff was gone. They had persuaded her to move out but 5 months later she wanted to come back (she had also maxed out her credit card) so I happily took her back (looking back she was very good to me and put up with a lot of my crap, to this day I'm regretful about how I treated her in some ways). We coexisted just fine, I had my life she had hers but two years later is when I got df'd officially. That made it impossible for her to have friends over or me to join her when her mom wanted to do stuff. Her dad wasn't a believer and had left her mom (they hadn't spoken in 20 years but stayed married until all the kids grew up) so when he got a girlfriend I had no problem going with her to their house. Anyway after about a year of that I decided she and I would be better off apart as we barely had any life together so we got divorced amicably. As far as I know eventually she quit going to JW functions as well. Dad was an elder and congregation leader in the 70s, he was on the fast track to becoming a traveling overseer until mom got pregnant with me. In the early 80s he and another elder looked into a business partnership. The other elder stole my dad's idea and left him in the lurch. Dad was removed as an elder and was bitter about it so he started his own business and did quite well but eventually became very disillusioned with the congregation and only attended meetings sporadically. It was fifteen years after that when I approached him about the organization so he wasn't devout anymore. At first he was concerned that I sounded like an apostate but he listened and asked questions. He always had a liberal mindset so that's why I felt comfortable approaching him. I don't think he received any pushback from the congregation or if they had any inkling about him and I. Dad was a very private person and had he been approached would've told the elders to shove it. Mom has a heart of gold as big as Texas and it breaks my heart to see all of these stories of exJWs getting shunned by their own mothers. I can't imagine what that's like. I've never met any exJW that has a story similar to mine so I think you should treat me as an anomaly. Our family never let the elders control our lives. All four of us kids quit the religion with me being the only one who got df'd because I flaunted my exit, the others just walked away. It goes to show how JWs aren't really concerned with one's spiritual circumstance but rather how they respond to organizational dictates. They mask that under the guise of one's "relationship with Jehovah" but what they really mean is, is this person doing what we want them to be doing. I made a mockery of the rules out in the open and that's what gets you in trouble. Most people who are questioning the religion just try to quietly go away, which was my intent but when they messed with my wife and then nailed me much later I just found out sad and funny. BTW I got formally df'd because I restarted a friendship with a guy who'd been df'd years prior and someone saw us shooting pool together and told the elders. By then I'd grown my hair long, bought my brother's sports car and definitely didn't identify as a JW so I told the elders to just leave me alone but they must've gotten direction from higher up to go after me. Like I say, I have been around the online exJW community for almost thirty years now and never have I heard of anyone with a story like mine.
"The governing body has decided." Simon says touch your nose. Simon says hop on one foot. Simon says shun your family. It's so ridiculous at this point. 😂
The disassociation part I remember one talk where the organization tells people what to say and think.... "They have decided to live a sinful against Jehovah's standards". That's BS and personally if someone walked away doesn't mean they're going to live that kind of life that JW'S look down on.
Exactly! 🙌🏻 One thing that was so surprising and helped me to wake up was the realization that ‘worldly people’ weren’t completely evil like I’d been raised to believe 🤯
@@jevonator_9479 So true. I'm been to three EXJW meet ups in the area I live in, and they were more curious on my PIMO status, and accepted it unlike the org where they try to force you to agree with their way or force you to do it their way. They've been helping me with my exit plan.
@@UnassignedTerritory Understand they did the same thing to Jesus. Because the light gets brighter you don’t agree? Does not the Bible say you will understand as the light gets brighter? You people want to make something bad out of something good. That’s what all worldly people do. They did the same thing to Jesus and had him killed because of their bad heart conditions.
@@UnassignedTerritory Because they are following the scriptures and Gods instructions it doesn’t make sense to you? It makes perfect sense to me. Sorry you can’t understand.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q It makes sense to you because you are stuck in your paradigm. The same way Mormon doctrines makes perfect sense to them over JW's. I was once an elder parroting doctrines to the masses. I know how it works. You going against the GBs direction to not look at apostate videos means you aren't keeping up with "new light". But that's a good thing. It means you're at least questioning.
@@PeggyHartman-e2qDoes new light mean that you go in the complete opposite direction of the old light? 🤔 Shouldn’t it *build on* what was previously known rather than completely changing it?
Yes please open your mouths really wide about how important you think you are so everyone can worship you…. Please let your ego grow and grow and speak again and again about how you talk to God…. And everyone must obey and worship you…. Sounds totally plausible….Please!!!!
Totally agree with you Chaka, and i think it could well be announced at the annual meeting. They have been getting more and more mainstream, because they are losing so many members in recent years, and they need to find ways to hang on to them.
@@billsdoris Very true! I also think any changes they announce will be somewhat meaningless like the Sanderson changes to disfellowshipping. They are just not willing to let go of this harmful and shocking policy.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns Their real concern, as you said, is for members who speak out against the org. If someone takes blood for instance, they can leave off saying the person is dissasociated, but could put a talk out about the subject instead, without naming anyone. That way the congregaton is reminded about the orgs view of taking blood. There only concern is to stop members going against the orgs view on this subject. This approach could work with some other things too.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns - there are kind people in the org, even elders, but the spiteful ones always rise to the top of the chain and administer their own brand of emotional, psychological and mental RAPE along with so called discipline, which in itself is extreme.
That’s what marking is. It still informs everyone to shun individuals not just strengthen their personal beliefs on the subject matter. It still torments the “wrongdoer” who expresses autonomy in any way.
And, didn’t the GB recently announce they were doing away with “marking” talks? Some may have thought that was a great idea until they then reinstated the “marking” business by allowing individuals to privately “mark” people they don’t like and refuse to associate with them! This will result in more grief and misery because it allows the spiteful and mean spirited license to emotionally harm others. The religion already has problems with stupid gossipers and the overly self righteous!!
@@finalpharoah1 I definitely think they'll pull that move out of desperation... but let's see... You're right, it will only show that the activism is working.
The same like before. If you have been retreated silently, without writing a letter or making a statement, no poblem. But whenever you recect only one point of the teachings of the GB, telling this to other witnesses, you are regarded as an apostate.
Yes Chaka! You always do a great job - I enjoy your comments & perspectives very much!! Especially the speculations on their plan to get rid of "Dissasociation!" 👏 👏 👏
Loved your predictions. I have found the only way you can get an active JW actually think is to ask them, "what changes do you think they will make next?"(which in my mind is a sly way of saying, "what do they have wrong.") My very pimo elder/uncle thinks it will be the 1914 doctrine. I agree that they will eventually have to do something about disassociation. I also feel that it will be as hollow and meaningless as the changes in DFing. My only hope is that as the pressure builds they will lead to actual meaningful changes. As for putting the formal preaching work out to pasture? I can only hope, but I think they are still a long ways away from doing that. Yes the annual meeting should be interesting. Hope it's not a "nothingburger".
Inviting disfellowshipped ones; "Or someone who was once close to us." Taking off emotions like changing clothes and into different emotions. Just that quickly and easily. WTF
Great points Chaka as always! I agree and do think it is strange that they dont mention disassociation. I think they are waiting to change the wording or maybe just trying to ignore the fact that is is still a persons right to do so. Maybe they will call it choosing to leave the congregation or this person has choosen to leave Jehovah. Either way im sure the punishment will be the same. Also thanks for including Bart Ehrmans thoughts on shunning. He is such a reasonable man and bible scholar. I read his armageddon book not to long ago because a friend recommend it. It definitely helped me put away any fear of the book of revelation or armageddon itself had over me personally. Just another step in the deprogramming process.
Hey MovieMan! Great points as well. I think you're onto something with the new wording. Yes, Watchtower can't give up control over who exists the religion, which is really sad. Thanks for mentioning Bart's book on Armageddon. I'll definitely check it out
If the Watchtower Society's Governing Body are going to scrap, or do away with, the policy of disassociation, then they may as well do away with the cruel and unjust shunning policy too.
My brother was Disfellowshipped for about 10 years, during that time the elders never once visited him or sought to get him to return. They are full of 💩
Why don't they explain what an apostate means. In my opinion they use that word to end conversation full stop. That means they don't have to defend their religion . It reminds me of that film Ben huir when someone shouts lepper. I am a former jehovahs witness.
Several speakers have used the word “apostate” as if it’s the dirtiest word in the English language. They show disgust with their facial features and body language every time they go after exJW’s. I really wish more of us would insist on the truthful title for this movement: WHISTLEBLOWERS!
Christine Sotelo, it could also mean someone who formerly was promoting kingdom interests, but now is actively working against kingdom interests, like you
The 'disassociation policy' changed in 1981. Previous to that they were treated like non-Witnesses and it was up to the individual as to how/if you associated with them.
It seems that the change was based on the situation with Ray Franz and his association with his disassociated employer. To get Ray 'out of the way', there would need to be a way to disfellowship him....
So if shunning is up to the individual person, it would feel so uncomfortable to attend a KH, and some would be nice and someone else would turn their backs on you. That’s confusing too, never knowing if they’re going to be hot or cold.
@@christinesotelo7655 This is the problem with the JW leaders. Whenever they have the opportunity to do the right thing they choose to do the wrong thing. They could easily have said "let's just show love and kindness to people who turn up at our meetings". But no it has to be caveated
Very true. It makes me cringe and also angry every time that brother says it's good to see you here and points at the floor of the hall. It's so unloving and so insulting to any that have been disfellowshiped in the past,possibly being shunned and made to feel like they dont exist for years. Just very sad.
@@seven-in2je You go ahead and you can be responsible just like the scribes and Pharisees in Jesus day. Does not the Bible say let the weeds and the wheat grow together for fear you may pull up some of the wheat. You go ahead with this attitude and if someone happens to get killed or persecuted it will be on you. I know God would not approve of you hating on one of his people.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns minors are dfd and shunned all the time. I was marked because my 17 year old CSA predators father was an elder. He did that to cover up the crime or sin in their eyes. My childhood was horrid.
@@ricklee5802official.1Rope_fan Yes, I know. It's a massive problem in the religion. I'm really sorry to hear about your shocking experience. I hope you've been able to find healing.
@@RobbieJayOne You're right, the policy has not changed but they have not addressed some obvious questions that have arisen from the recent policy changes e.g. can a disassociated person be greeted when they turn up at the Kingdom Hall?
They are taking so long to put in writing, their new procedures for dealing with baptised children/teenagers. There is no way they can back this up with the bible. They may use the headship of the parents but if they do then they must make changes to how married wives are also to be treated since they are under the headship of their husbands.
Being a JW is like a signing a terms & conditions contract; it looks like a standard contract until it’s, too, late to realize there were a lot of hidden fine print on the very last pages. Imho, The Org. since the 1990’s have been slowly trying to separate The GB from The Org, meaning there’s been policies & rules to protect the Board of Trustees. There’s been a slew of subtle changes, including differentiating all of the branches from w/in the organization and registering them as different incorporated functions. The Organization is great at using tricky words, semantics if u will. The latest mock language has been “Your spiritually ‘trained’ conscience.’ What does this mean? Well, I’m of the opinion that now The Organization will substitute “rules” for principles. They’ve already geared their members to see “the principles” from Bible passages. So, instead of outright saying “it’s wrong”, they’ll train their members via various articles, talks, scriptures to train their members to continue the same line of thinking. B/c individuals of the congregation r no longer considered “members” of the religion, now if a person is shunned or if a CSA matter is mishandled, The Organization can easily absolve itself, & place the blame on that individual’s understanding or spiritual conscience. Talked to a family member who’s never been a JW, but is in law; they looked over some of the material posted online & compared. Literally said it’s the same thing w/ different wording to protect the parent company. It’s a repacking & redistribution.
Exactly what I’ve thought too! Watchtower is incredibly sleazy and knows exactly how to appear to change words while saying the same exact thing a different way! Despicable liars!
I started to say that if the Watchtower Society is going to scrap, or abolish, the policy of disassociation, then it might as well abolish the cruel and unjust shunning policy too.
As far as the Blood doctrine, if someone (JW) decides to save their life, if they don’t admit it was wrong and they don’t apologize for saving their life, they can be disassociated? That doesn’t sound good either! They are getting very confusing.
When I was disfellowshipped in the eighties it devastated my children. They lost all respect for me because of how the so-called Christians treated me. Like I wasn't there.. my kids treated me the same. Even to this day, and they went totally opposite of God. They want nothing to do with religion all these years later, even though I found God, the real Creator of this world we are all in
Shunning is THE most important control tactic of the WTS. Without this control, there would be huge losses of membership. Many stay in because of familial ties and friendships who would otherwise be gone.
Crazy how they won’t just come out and say hey ok look this is what happened n we lost some cases and we’re changing my policy for this reason no they say it’s new light so new light means the government or countries have made us change this or that
They not writing New material cause they gotten things wrong so many times that they afraid doing it again. They can just blame everything on former GB members that came up with doctrines. They not making real changes cause they can blame everything on former GB members that organised how org should work. It's all about blaming someone else. And gonna do the same. On judgment day I'm gonna say " GB members fooled me. I don't take any responsibility for what they done" 😊
On the subject of disfellowshipping/Disassociation there’s something I’ve been thinking about. What about a case like in the ARC case? So a young person suffers through abuse by an Elder/Servant/Publisher and they follow the directions and go to the Elders to report it. There’s not 2 witnesses so the Elders say there’s nothing they can do. The Elders are not trained psychologically or otherwise to handle someone that has been abused, so they say “wait on Jehovah, pray, etc…” Since the Elders do not help by reporting the abuse to authorities and they cannot take action to protect the young person or others from the abuser by removing them from the congregation because of the 2 witness rule, the young person is baptized and decides they are not adequately supported nor do they feel safe in the congregation and by extension, the organization, so the young person decides to disassociate. Even tho this young person has done nothing wrong, but decides they cannot remain in an organization that allows abusers to remain in the congregation, they will be cut off by their friends, family, and congregation as a result of the dissociation. I just can’t imagine that the Jehovah we know, could support this type of arrangement. Am I wrong to think this way?
It is so vile of watchtower to show pictures of children leaving home once they have left the religion. In actual fact, the parents MUST kick them out or be punished themselves. 😢😢😢
If the term disfellowshipped has been replaced by removed from the congregation, what category would someone who disassociates and remove themselves from the WT?..Lol
I doubt this will happen… but if there is, I’d take it as a win, and about 1/3 of the issues that I have with witnesses would be gone. I think if they would allow people to associate with x members, there would be a provision to shun those that are living in a way that they don’t agree with (lgbtq, doing drugs…).
The verbiage of " the GB has decided" helps to keep people in the mindset that they CAN'T or aren't allowed to make their own decision on things. They need to be told that they can "use their Bible trained conscience". So sad.
@@dianehanson5691 Hey Diane! I think you can download it from the jw.org website. Just type in the book title in the search bar and click on publications. It used to ask if you're a Jehovah's Witness before it lets you download, if it does just click "yes"
Yes, on the one hand they tell you to use your Bible trained conscience and then contradict themselves by preventing you, under threat, from doing so, there by sinning against God!
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns my prediction is that they go even harder or waaaay softer. The amount of PIMO’s I know are just exploding here in northern Europe. Side story: I went with a family member to a Sunday meeting out of respect. Not been in the KH for 8-9 years. It was the same people, just less and older. Same Elders, just older. One new elder, but I suspect he is gay. Never seen him near a woman.
Hi! Great video. Do you know or have any idea where Tony Morris is? I know where he is but, is he a non believer now? I have a feeling the rest of the body wanted to make changes & he didn’t want to. But to no longer be a GB member & now not attending meetings?🤷🏻♀️ I’ve been out since October 2012! I live across the street from the Kingdom Hall!!! My mother shunned me the last 8 years of her life. I was 42 years old when I left, my adult kids got me to see what was really going on!🎉🎉🎉
@@TracyLeaBeauty Hello. Congratulations on leaving and especially that your children left with / before you. I have done a video on the Tony Morris saga. It's entitled "Why Anthony Morris Was Booted From the Governing Body and Why He'll Never Speak Out. Thank you for tuning in and for your kind words.
About time - destroyed many family and fr relationships not to mention the number of victims who took their lives - totally unscriptual - it's not man's place to judge - we were commanded to live even our enemies 🙏
@@db-g7023 I don't expect any meaningful changes to take place just yet but let's just hope the pressure continues from the authorities and that will force some changes
Shunning is simply heinous, it is against human compassion and kindness, it promotes coldness and is typical behavior for cults. But who is wrong? JW's or Paul in Corinthians 5? Both! Jesus would never give up and refuse to associate and eat with a sinner, let alone decide to shun and reject him. Only authoritarian organizations that are afraid of people who have different opinions can react so shamefully.
I prefer to be ignored rather than something half ass to be honest not that having sex without a piece of paper is really that bad anyway like they make it out to be.
New Light = We were wrong! It's that simple. It's not new light that beards are suddenly okay. No, it's nothing more than the little chubby one wanting a beard. The end. Policy changed. The entire policy was based on Rutherford having a burr up his butt about Russell and it's very common knowledge to the semi-educated person on JW history.
How can’t current JWs, felt something is wrong when they heard the change of beard! Didn’t this org had DF’d members who had beard back days! Where is the natural affection for them😮
I don't think they ever disfellowshipped people for having beards but it was very heavily frowned upon. People even lost "privileges" for having beards. You're right - JWs should have smelled something fishy but a lot of JW men just went and grew beards.
@@Eric_01 It's a cult for weak men to feel powerful. They get to control women without being men. They get to make excuses for being poor and pathetic with fake promises that will never come true. Beta is the word that comes to mind.
The word shunning is not used in the JW organization. I think you all need to take this up with Almighty as He is the one telling his people not to love the world, to stay away from bad association, not eat with an unrepentant wrong doer and tons of council that tells a Christian in good standing what he needs to do to stay clean and why. Take the lesson from what Achan did that resulted in God's anger toward Israel. (Joshua 7:1) "But the Israelites were unfaithful with regard to what had been devoted to destruction, for Aʹchan son of Carʹmi, son of Zabʹdi, son of Zeʹrah, of the tribe of Judah, took some of what was devoted to destruction. At this Jehovah’s anger blazed against the Israelites" The principal is the same today when a baptized member in the Christian congregation commits a gross sin and tries to hide it or when caught refuses help from the Elders and refuses to express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing. Bible says to stay away of the leaven that corrupts the whole lump. Do you really think a member of the Christian congregation who chooses to live an immoral life is good association? What you might want to know is why Christians do not associate with wicked or immoral people rather than bad mouth the JW organization because they choose to follow their God as ruler rather than man. Bad association spoil useful habits.
@@ronhansen8471 If we are going to be pedantic about following the JW rules, should you really be watching so-called "apostate" channels and even commenting on them?
Disfellowshipping equals shunning. That they've chosen a different word only for the sake of not being hypocrites because they literally condemned the practice only two years before they implemented it themselves. Tom-ay-to, Tom-ah-to. Same thing. The "Almighty" is NOT telling his people to keep from bad association. It's only Paul writing to Corinth. That is as far from God speaking as it can get. Cute little one-liner, though. "Bad association spoils useful habits." That is so common sense that it boggles the mind that a congregation of grown adults had to even be told that. As for the rest, you lost me at "Jehovah's anger blazed". What an impatient a$$ hole he is. Always smiting and genociding. Tell me, if you knew a brother in the congregation that started smoking and got himself disfellowshipped, you would stop talking to him. Absolutely no speak of such a "rule" in the entire bible. Based on nothing. In fact, JWs were allowed to smoke for more than half a century. New light? LOL. However, if your own mother had never been a witness, but she smoked, would also treat her as dead for the same action? I'll answer it for you. NO. JWs consistently associate with non-believing friends or relatives with the very same habits that a baptized person would get the axe for. You do nothing out of principle, and everything out of fear a peer pressure by your community.
A word of advice my brother, while Bart Ehrman is a very knowledgeable scholar, he indeed is a very skeptical scholar. I've noticed you tend to follow him but please search solid and sound Christian scholars instead
Why?! Why would someone want to seek scholarly information from a biased source? Regardless, MUCH of what Ehrman explains regarding biblical history and context is shared by Christian scholars, anyway. Ehrman was a Christian well into adulthood. It was learning more and more facts about the bible that changed him. You should take note of that.
@Eric_01 I'm well aware of Bart's bio and learn a lot of things from him myself, but you totally missed my point. My point is the opposite of what you think. That is to avoid someone's particular biased ideas, you make a conclusion after your own personal study of scriptures as well hearing the commentary from multiple scholars on a matter. For an example, if I need to know what's the best treatment for a condition, I would consult with as many doctors as I can before making a choice. That's my point...BTW, you are settling for Bart's biases if he's your only source
@@try_himsee3335 Fair enough. Bart's not my only source, but I highly respect his conclusions. I listen to quite a few people that aren't at the "scholar" level, but are very good.
There ie nothing spiritual going on with these changes. The wording makes that crystal clear. “The governing body has decided.” Not the Bible directs, or Jehovah directs us to this decision “ This is a man made religion, nothing spiritual about it, and they the governing body, decides everything and Jesus Christ and Jehovah have no part in anything they do.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns you’d be surprised how severe it can be. During interviews with faculty at certain seminaries a question is brought up regarding thoughts on Ehrman. If you don’t denounce Erhman, no job for you.
@@RiskeFactor That's wild! I guess if these are fundamentalist seminaries, it wouldn't be surprising that they expect their recruits to be fully believing, which is contrary to Ehrman's views. It's still crazy that they have such an attitude towards such a fine scholar. I'm not sure if there's any evangelical denomination that practises the hard shunning that JWs do to the extent that even your closest blood relatives treat you like you're dead.
You don’t make the rules for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Who appointed you. If you repent you can be grafted back in. You’re relying on your own understanding . The Bible also ask who is the faithful discreet slave. Meaning they slave for the congregation. These men are faith men. They don’t get paid either. For the Bible says you get free you give free. Because these elders are very serious you hate on them.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q I don't hate on anyone. I criticise harmful, toxic, reckless, abusive and unscriptural policies and doctrines. If the Jehovah's Witnesses leadership stop implementing such harmful policies I will stop criticising them. Until then, the criticism and exposure will continue.
@@vestland3877 The elders don’t. They have jobs if they aren’t retired . The overseers may get a little bit just to care for their needs for when they travel to different congregations. The overseers if invited will stay with different people of the congregations. There are certain places they might stay that were built by the congregation when there are conventions that they stay in. Many do not even own homes. They do not waste the donations . Very organized. They have a building committee that will rebuild homes for the congregation if destroyed, say in a hurricane. And sometimes they will build homes for people who are not Witnesses. As well as having a medical committee. They don’t usually hire anyone to build the Kingdom Halls. The congregation volunteers. Everything is run by donations. They are not government funded. They go by the laws of the state,such if they have to file for certain things. They take the scriptures and what Jesus taught very seriously. They will dis fellowship any person that does wrong doing, say that commits fornication, or cheats on their husband or wife, or if they do something else that goes against the scriptures. This is to keep the congregation clean as Jesus commanded. They form cleaning committees within the congregations so they don’t waste the donations. The elders don’t receive any money but give their time freely. Which everything revolves around the truth. It’s a way of life for them. Everything is done for the congregations. A elder even took time out to fix my step for me. I didn’t even ask him to. These elders work very hard for the congregation. These men organize their lives around the truth, making sure all is well. Most people do not understand they take the truth very seriously. They are not perfect , but I can say they try really hard. Most elders are what I call mild temper. Every one works as a team including the congregation. These people who have been disfellowship for their wrong doing or because they just don’t want to be a witness anymore are twisting a lot of things , I guess it’s because they want to justify their wrong doing, or they get tired. It’s not easy to try to do things according to the scriptures. People will make mistakes and then try to justify it. These people know how hard these brothers work for the congregation. It’s not like they don’t know. They just don’t like the consequences of their actions. No need to put down the brothers for their wrong doing. Many wrong doers come back to the truth years later. They can be grafted back in if they truly have repented and stop all the wrong doing.
This is good news. This also keeps the congregation clean. All Bible based. That’s what the Bible says to do. They don’t mock anyone like you say. As the light gets brighter more knowledge comes out. Does not God say to abstain from blood? You don’t know but you assume . You know nothing about the Witnesses . Just a lot of self assuming. Look up Christmas, Easter. All related to pagan gods. How many times are you going to say, I think?
How can the light get brighter in just one single week? Just ONE SINGLE WEEK after they lose the court case in Norway they changed the disfellowshipping rule after MORE THAN 50 YEARS of hard core shunning. They even lie to the courts and say that each individual jehovah's witness had a choice whether or not to associate with the disfellowshipped person when we all know this is patently untrue. How on earth can the governing body "reflect on jehovah's mercy" just one week after losing a major court case and make radical changes?
Have you ever looked up the pagan rituals and beliefs associated with weddings? Yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses do all those things in their wedding ceremonies…rings, bridesmaids, bouquets, white dress, veil, etc. very hypocritical, don’t you think? And, you are not a true Jehovah’s Witness if you are watching videos like this, you are a Watchtower apologist, a true believer would NEVER watch an apostate video.
Keeps the congregation clean? We're largely talking about shunning people who are leaving it, anyway. They are already out of the congregation. What is gained by shunning these people by their parents, siblings, and even their own children? To serve what purpose? The congregation? They were already gone! Meanwhile, you same people who will shun someone ONLY because their name was read from the stage will still associate freely with acquaintances and relatives with far worse actual habits, but on a technicality, were never baptized. I've seen it a hundred times, so don't even try. The principle should be to avoid people whose practices would be a bad influence, but JWs will largely not do that. They will only apply the rule to someone whose name is read from the stage and now they themselves would face scrutiny or disfellowshipping themselves for going against the grain. Also, Acts 15:28 was nothing more than a letter to the Gentiles, NOT ALL OF MANKIND FOREVER. It's also referring to the blood of sacrificed animals, obviously, as it is sandwiched between other rules regarding sacrifices. It makes no clear point what-so-ever regarding the use of human blood to actually save your life. Why? Because those ding-dongs had not concept of the concept of medical use of blood. It does not apply. It's so unbelievably vague that it couldn't possibly support the policy that your GB simply made up and spun from nothing.
2nd comment.. Over 20yrs ago scripturally I showed the elders how disfellowshipping is not scriptural. Only 1 Person in the 1st century was ever described in the Bible as being removed. All the other times Paul won ppl back even while they were sexual immoral. 2 cor.
I've heard of and experienced narcissistic individuals, but an entire company with a headquarters? So glad I'm free. In Jesus name.
"very weak spiritually" = the person has shaken themselves free of WT cult mind control.
Very strong more like
@@adamantiumbullet9215, For REAL!!! ☺️
In the Watchtower Cult, "Spirituality" equals how "Well-Indoctrinated" you are, how perfectly you "perform" according to your "Watchtower Cult Programming," and, most importantly, how LOYAL to the Cult you are!! 😵💫
I disassociated 14 years ago, and have been shunned ever since... voluntarily left. VOLUNTARILY chose to leave. For that, lost my mother, brother, sister, friends, husband and home. Its criminal.
@@majafleur9646 💯 It is criminal
I've been out for 20+ years and suffer the same losses, including my children. The process to get it ALL back is so very easy. You just have to sit quietly in the back for a few months and start again. They'll read your name and just as quickly as it was all ripped away, it will all be given back. AND I'D RATHER DIE! Isn't it amazing how once you see the matrix that is this organization, you simply cannot return to it, even to restore all of your relationships. Being away from it is that important and valuable.
Fortunately none of my family were in so when I slipped away no more was said to much did have a friend contact on a social basis for odd times over the years but he doesn't reply anymore even if you're asking hope you are well .. enough said
“The governing body has decided”
@@JohnTurner678 Too right. Who needs God or Jesus' opinion when you've got the Governing Body
“Vomiting 🤮 “
I wish the GB would just be honest for once and say, "The corporate Board of Directors has decided."
They saying right out God has left them
Acting as if "T H E Y" are God.
How audacious !!
They deceive themselves thinking someone desperately wants to be close to them
@@emmanuellartey3176, Oh, my God!! 😳 That is so sadly HILARIOUS!! 🤣
First time here, very impressed with your in depth knowledge of this destructive Cult. As a “ Born Again” Christian from the U.K. I have subscribed to your channel and thank you for all you do in exposing this dangerous group.
@@davesandyrobinson Thank you for your kind words, vote of confidence and subscribing to the channel 🙏🙏🙏 I'd love to hear more from a Born Again Christian on their perspectives on JWs teachings.
As an 'failed bible study student'.....the group is indeed dangerous, the folk knocking on your door are most likely the most well minding and kind heart people you're likely to ever meet.
@@markjones1337they shud have empathy enaf to not show up early in the morning. 😢
@arneedlund8512 we've been trained all our lives to answer a knock on the door......its 2024, just ignore it and wait for your phone to ring, ignore that and go back to sleep.
@@markjones1337 sorry but it's worse than that. If something wake me up I can't sleep agen til next night. I need my mornings sleep to be helthy.
I think allmost everyone that is sick are thinking the same.
Acely I try to help all JWs that hate to knock on someones door early to. GB shud change that to.
I did hate it when I was a JW. Allmost everyone do. Not everyone is brave enaf so speek up agens it da.
It is a bad behaver. Very very very bad.
As usual, great video. It’s so interesting how in the 60s through the 2000s they had so much power because so many people were coming in that they could afford to enforce their abusive disfellowshipping policy. But now that they can’t afford the financial losses or the membership losses, they suddenly give a damn about abusive policies and have a “new arrangement.”
I texted my father about my little brother who would not have been disfellowshipped under the new arrangement. I asked him if he thought that the governing body would send an apology letter for the year they made him suffer. No reply of course.
Thanks again Chaka!
- Jason
@@DiffiCULTChildhood Hey Jason. Thank you for your kind words and great points. Sorry to hear about your brother. It's just sad that most people are so indoctrinated they can't realise that these people are just making stuff up. Of course, there will never be an apology because WT is first and foremost a business and a corporation; to apologise is to accept liability. As you say, the more people vote with their feet the more likely there will be some reform as you can't operate a business with no customers.
No. Those men will never apologize. They know that if they do, then families who’ve experienced family members committing suicide, or those who survived the loss of family who did not take blood to save their lives, would go after them for crimes. Because what the GB has done in people’s lives is criminal, cruel, and unusual.
Amazing how the tables can turn when enough people refuse to submit to these authority abusers.
Authority abusers? The true God of the bible makes it clear that his people stay clear of wicked persons. An unrepentant sinner in God's earthly organization is considered wicked by God. You might want to take this up with the Almighty.
You mean their imagined authority? 🤣 🤣 🤣 window washing clowns! 🤡
@@ronhansen8471the same almighty that INSPIRED the governing body to publish a watchtower years ago about the unbiblical practice of excommunication? Or is THAT God out of date?
@@ronhansen8471 Anointed Christians comprise a Spiritual Temple. The Apostle Paul warned “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?” The apostasy comes from WT leaders.
@@ronhansen8471 “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ. Jesus referred to Judas as the son of destruction. It is the same designation given to the man of lawlessness. This means that the man of lawlessness is a chosen one, as was Judas, in that, Judas was selected by Jesus as one of the 12 apostles. Christendom has been marinating in apostasy for centuries, to say that the clergy must apostatize first before the presence of Christ is meaningless. The apostasy that must come first must come from within Christ’s congregation of anointed persons; yes, from the leadership; in other words, from among those taking the lead. Obviously, we can not expect the Governing Body to announce this kind of new light.
They're losing control! Meeeeellllting! The witch tower is meelllllltiiing!
Like the witch tower, from the wizard of oz.
Yay!!!!
They aren’t loosing control it’s more like their PIMP is telling them they gotta change or they get no money lol fix this or loose my backing
Watchtower is falling like the walls of Jericho, because we are SHOUTING!!
😅
It is only designed with court cases and how they look to the courts in mind. They are trying to make themselves look less controversial and toxic. They are and will gradually remove the type of language that makes courts decide against them, the toxic language must step by step be replaced with less toxic terms that look better to the outside world. All to portray them as more mainstream and less extreme. Norway and now Sweden and others are slowly bringing in laws that will allow governments to remove their government funding and charity status as well as their having to pay taxes !!! This is the only way they are forced to change, threaten to take their charity status and government funding and tax exemptions. Money is the only thing that motivates them. They don't care what harm they do and so moral fibre doesn't come into it. It's all about status, money and reputation. Corporate gymnastics.
@@terrywindsor9779 💯 accurate
Money has the ability to concentrate the mind
Terry - spot on - people just don't matter enough. So many suicides because of this unholy cult.
Watchtower is very, very sneaky! They may remove the harsh toxic language from their publications to appease the governments that support the religion with concessions and tax exemption but rest assured they will keep doing what they’ve always done in extreme secrecy with more “secret” elder’s manuals, ie, the real Bible of Watchtower, their manmade rules and regulations.
Terry Windsor, that's one way to look at it I suppose...but you could just as easily say that it went down like the watchtower said...namely that they studied the Bible more on the subject and concluded that when the Bible said ' don't eat with them it was referring to apostates.
But here you are racing to impute negative conclusions
If they do scrap the policy I reckon almost half, maybe more, would leave. I know a lot are in because they are held hostage by the blackmail of losing family, friends, and employment in some cases, if they ever leave.
@@Mark-ec3lp This is why them getting rid of the reporting time was a "masterstroke" as now they can just make up the numbers
Wrong, we stopped reporting time to comply with state regulations and also the word is spreading so fast now it's impossible to count. For example look at India. It's estimated that every year 10 million more each year are getting access to the internet because of cheap throwaway old phones. Now even the poorest of the poor can hear the word.
Fully agree.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns The GB are all perfidious.
@@Mark-ec3lp That’s because the scriptures says bad association spoils useful habits. No one holds anyone hostage as you call it. Besides they knew all this before getting baptized. They knew what disfellowship was all about. It’s because they will not take the responsibility on, for their wrong doing or no longer want to do it. They made their choice. No these ones want to take down others with them when they leave. These ones no longer want to play fair and expect others to join in with them. Because some people are weak don’t mean others are.
It’s amazing, actually disgusting how this GB wants not only control over their members but also wants to continue control over those who have left and desire to speak out, so frustrating to me. However the members are just as much to blame because they are the ones giving the GB the power of control by abiding by every rule that comes down the pike.
@@rebella5769 You're absolutely right. The members could just decide not to comply and there's absolutely nothing the Governing Body could do about it.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturnsit’s not that easy. They are so indoctrinated to believe that’s the only way to life. Also they will lose everybody that they care about!!!
Following men not Christ!
Yes silence is complicity and enabling these narcissistic gasbag criminals
I totally agree! If hundreds of thousands JW’s absolutely refused to accept every single thing Watchtower puppet masters told them to do that farcical religion would grind to a halt! What are the GB going to do…. disfellowship enormous numbers of their followers. That would bring on total global collapse of the borg!
When I first entered the cult of Jehovah's witnesses, first thing I had to do was shave my beard.. my, how things have changed. Now beards are permitted. And ladies wearing pants and slacks are okay. If shunning is abolished, the bullwork of their beliefs, that will be a sure sign Watchtower is tanking.
An act of desperation.
The irony is that desperation is why they do it to begin with. SO many people are living as PIMO just to maintain their relationships and it's the DF policy that drives and controls people to that extent. But, a reversal would be fun to see, because the younger generations are riding the trend of finding religion to be an outdated control tactic all around.
@@joachimgoethe7864 that ought to tell you they are not as controlling as you think. Shaving your beard was never a control thing. We know everyone preached the good news in the organization . They did it to glorify God because people , especially the older generation thought a person should be well groomed. That’s all there was to it. It was never a control thing. The organization is not about controlling people it’s about bring glory to Gods name. They take that very seriously. You think people would appreciate that and see the good in it. Women have always worn pants and slacks at home and when they’re out and about. Because they try to good you put these people down for it. Did not Jesus tell us to be in agreement? Does it not say a house divided will fall. We are in agreement and the sheep follow. That’s how it’s supposed to work. That’s the way Jesus set up the congregation. Does the Bible ask who really is the discreet slave who gives their food at the proper time. Does the Bible tell you let the weeds and the wheat grow together for fear you may pull up some of the wheat? If these people are truly Gods people you could actually be fighters against God. Understand they also accused Jesus of being in a cult. Twisting his words.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q If it’s just because the older generation prefers clean shaven faces and it affects a whole organization, that’s absolutely about maintaining control 😂 If it were just a preference thing, facial hair wouldn’t have equaled loss of privileges like it did for decades. No scripture backs it up, just the opinion of 9 geriatrics in New York
@@PeggyHartman-e2q
Which one of God's names are glorified by the borg.?
None.
And the only one of God's names used by witnesses has become a stench; A bad association.
Great video. I left JWs in 1997 and was atheist in about a year. My wife stayed with the JWs. I was very very fortunate that my dad was willing to talk to me about what i was learning and he even read crisis of conscience. It took the elders almost three years to get me. A friend who'd become an elder called me and asked if he could stop over to see me. I said sure Vince. Then he said he was coming with another elder. I said hang on, if you're coming here as my friend you're welcome but if this is an official JW thing forget about it. It turned out one of my old JW friends got df'd so when i quit i started hanging out with him and two other friends who'd also quit just weren't df'd. Somebody saw me shooting pool with my df'd friend. So a judicial committee was formed and i showed up with my df'd friend. They said what's he doing here? I said he's here as my witness to testify that we never associate with each other ever. They didn't think it was funny and wouldn't let him in. So i went in and they did their thing. The chairman had also been a friend of mine, a genuinely great guy, and he looked like he was going to cry the whole time. They tried reading crap from the Bible and i said I'd like to read something from it. I went to Proverbs something or other and read the passage where it says 'a friend will stick closer than a brother.' i told then he'd been an awesome friend and you guys were supposed to be my brothers and all you're doing is going to make life difficult for my wife. So i got df'd. I got their personal info and told them if they ever try to enforce my family from talking to me i wont sue the congregation, i won't sue the Watchtower, i will sue each of you personally. I went to tell my mother in law who'd if always got along great with and she told me while crying 'if i have to choose between you and Jehovah i have to choose Jehovah.' never spoke to me again. But my mom called me and told me nothing was going to change and nothing did. In fact i was homeless for a while and she let me stay at her house which is REALLY against the rules. The past couple of years she's been telling me about all the changes. Our family was pretty devout in the 70s but my parents always trusted me to not get in trouble and never micromanaged my life so i got really lucky. I think for the past couple of decades they saw it like going to any other church, it was just special to them. As far as salvation goes mom told me that she believes Jehovah will make everything right. I simply cannot imagine having to be shunned for 24 years now and what people have to go through. By the way my df'd friend and other two friends did some bad stuff. Hookers, drugs, theft, fraud. But they left me completely out of all of it. They respected that i didn't want to get involved, they could tell, so they never asked me to join in. The elders did approach one of my friends and he told them if they tried to do to him what they did to me he would kill their families, kill them, and then kill himself (he was a gun nut, even had an ak47). They left him alone but his parents shunned him anyway. About ten years later he was engaged to a great girl, had a great job, and blew his brains out.
Thank you so much for sharing your amazing but sad story (your friend at the end). This CULT is the 👿 devil... Pure EVIL. 😢
@@cygnustsp Wow! What a story! Very sad about your friend.
I'm not and never a JW; I am studying the religion academically with no intention to join it. I am curious about two aspects of your story; thanks for sharing it. (1) You left JWs in 1997 yet your wife remained JW. I wonder about any pressure your wife received from JW people to divorce you or persuade you back into the faith. Further, how did your different-faith marriage affect your marriage and family life? (2) Your JW father was willing to read an anti-JW book to better understand you and your position as his son. Did your father risk his own JW membership by doing that? Did JW Elders discipline him for reading it? ~ These are sincere questions. I know enough about the JW religion to see problems in it. Occasionally yet rarely, my large employer hires a JW person who choses to remain socially isolated outside of job-related work (which I consider sad.) If your time permits, reply in this UA-cam forum. I plan to check back. I apologize if my questions, (1) and (2), are quite basic.
@@stevenparkin6486 hi thanks for asking the questions. In '97 I looked into "apostate" stuff online and found a message board that intended to foster reform amongst JW practices such as no blood, shunning and holidays. It was run by a very shadowy group whose participation was quite limited, nobody every found out who they were. It was ostensibly a bunch of Australian JWs who wanted their identities kept secret but their only participation was the guy who administered the website and a few random people who'd show up just to encourage people but that's it. Some of us speculated it was all one person or even controlled opposition. Anyway since the world wide web was young I visited other churches and Christian book stores and brought home a lot of stuff while not attending JW meetings anymore so my wife went to the elders about it. One day I can't home from work and all our stuff was gone. They had persuaded her to move out but 5 months later she wanted to come back (she had also maxed out her credit card) so I happily took her back (looking back she was very good to me and put up with a lot of my crap, to this day I'm regretful about how I treated her in some ways). We coexisted just fine, I had my life she had hers but two years later is when I got df'd officially. That made it impossible for her to have friends over or me to join her when her mom wanted to do stuff. Her dad wasn't a believer and had left her mom (they hadn't spoken in 20 years but stayed married until all the kids grew up) so when he got a girlfriend I had no problem going with her to their house. Anyway after about a year of that I decided she and I would be better off apart as we barely had any life together so we got divorced amicably. As far as I know eventually she quit going to JW functions as well.
Dad was an elder and congregation leader in the 70s, he was on the fast track to becoming a traveling overseer until mom got pregnant with me. In the early 80s he and another elder looked into a business partnership. The other elder stole my dad's idea and left him in the lurch. Dad was removed as an elder and was bitter about it so he started his own business and did quite well but eventually became very disillusioned with the congregation and only attended meetings sporadically. It was fifteen years after that when I approached him about the organization so he wasn't devout anymore. At first he was concerned that I sounded like an apostate but he listened and asked questions. He always had a liberal mindset so that's why I felt comfortable approaching him. I don't think he received any pushback from the congregation or if they had any inkling about him and I. Dad was a very private person and had he been approached would've told the elders to shove it. Mom has a heart of gold as big as Texas and it breaks my heart to see all of these stories of exJWs getting shunned by their own mothers. I can't imagine what that's like. I've never met any exJW that has a story similar to mine so I think you should treat me as an anomaly. Our family never let the elders control our lives. All four of us kids quit the religion with me being the only one who got df'd because I flaunted my exit, the others just walked away. It goes to show how JWs aren't really concerned with one's spiritual circumstance but rather how they respond to organizational dictates. They mask that under the guise of one's "relationship with Jehovah" but what they really mean is, is this person doing what we want them to be doing. I made a mockery of the rules out in the open and that's what gets you in trouble. Most people who are questioning the religion just try to quietly go away, which was my intent but when they messed with my wife and then nailed me much later I just found out sad and funny.
BTW I got formally df'd because I restarted a friendship with a guy who'd been df'd years prior and someone saw us shooting pool together and told the elders. By then I'd grown my hair long, bought my brother's sports car and definitely didn't identify as a JW so I told the elders to just leave me alone but they must've gotten direction from higher up to go after me. Like I say, I have been around the online exJW community for almost thirty years now and never have I heard of anyone with a story like mine.
"The governing body has decided."
Simon says touch your nose.
Simon says hop on one foot.
Simon says shun your family.
It's so ridiculous at this point. 😂
The disassociation part I remember one talk where the organization tells people what to say and think.... "They have decided to live a sinful against Jehovah's standards".
That's BS and personally if someone walked away doesn't mean they're going to live that kind of life that JW'S look down on.
Exactly! 🙌🏻 One thing that was so surprising and helped me to wake up was the realization that ‘worldly people’ weren’t completely evil like I’d been raised to believe 🤯
@@jevonator_9479 So true. I'm been to three EXJW meet ups in the area I live in, and they were more curious on my PIMO status, and accepted it unlike the org where they try to force you to agree with their way or force you to do it their way. They've been helping me with my exit plan.
I agree that they can’t let the Annual Meeting go by without some “new light” on this. Too many countries are clamping down on them.
@@UnassignedTerritory Understand they did the same thing to Jesus. Because the light gets brighter you don’t agree? Does not the Bible say you will understand as the light gets brighter? You people want to make something bad out of something good. That’s what all worldly people do. They did the same thing to Jesus and had him killed because of their bad heart conditions.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q What makes the JW "new light" more correct than any other cult's?
@@UnassignedTerritory Because they are following the scriptures and Gods instructions it doesn’t make sense to you? It makes perfect sense to me. Sorry you can’t understand.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q It makes sense to you because you are stuck in your paradigm. The same way Mormon doctrines makes perfect sense to them over JW's. I was once an elder parroting doctrines to the masses. I know how it works.
You going against the GBs direction to not look at apostate videos means you aren't keeping up with "new light". But that's a good thing. It means you're at least questioning.
@@PeggyHartman-e2qDoes new light mean that you go in the complete opposite direction of the old light? 🤔 Shouldn’t it *build on* what was previously known rather than completely changing it?
Keep on opening your mouths and letting words out, Sanderson and Co 👍
Yes please open your mouths really wide about how important you think you are so everyone can worship you…. Please let your ego grow and grow and speak again and again about how you talk to God…. And everyone must obey and worship you…. Sounds totally plausible….Please!!!!
Totally agree with you Chaka, and i think it could well be announced at the annual meeting. They have been getting more and more mainstream, because they are losing so many members in recent years, and they need to find ways to hang on to them.
@@billsdoris Very true! I also think any changes they announce will be somewhat meaningless like the Sanderson changes to disfellowshipping. They are just not willing to let go of this harmful and shocking policy.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns Their real concern, as you said, is for members who speak out against the org. If someone takes blood for instance, they can leave off saying the person is dissasociated, but could put a talk out about the subject instead, without naming anyone. That way the congregaton is reminded about the orgs view of taking blood. There only concern is to stop members going against the orgs view on this subject. This approach could work with some other things too.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns - there are kind people in the org, even elders, but the spiteful ones always rise to the top of the chain and administer their own brand of emotional, psychological and mental RAPE along with so called discipline, which in itself is extreme.
That’s what marking is. It still informs everyone to shun individuals not just strengthen their personal beliefs on the subject matter. It still torments the “wrongdoer” who expresses autonomy in any way.
And, didn’t the GB recently announce they were doing away with “marking” talks? Some may have thought that was a great idea until they then reinstated the “marking” business by allowing individuals to privately “mark” people they don’t like and refuse to associate with them!
This will result in more grief and misery because it allows the spiteful and mean spirited license to emotionally harm others.
The religion already has problems with stupid gossipers and the overly self righteous!!
That is a very interesting way of silencing people who are vocal... interesting move. The voices will only get louder and louder
@@finalpharoah1 I definitely think they'll pull that move out of desperation... but let's see... You're right, it will only show that the activism is working.
Final pharaoh, interesting indeed. It's also from the Bible
The same like before. If you have been retreated silently, without writing a letter or making a statement, no poblem. But whenever you recect only one point of the teachings of the GB, telling this to other witnesses, you are regarded as an apostate.
Yes Chaka! You always do a great job - I enjoy your comments & perspectives very much!! Especially the speculations on their plan to get rid of "Dissasociation!" 👏 👏 👏
@@cultytalk Thank you so much Culty Talk. I appreciate your kind words🙏🙏🙏
@@AnthonyMorrisReturnsthanks. watching you from Monrovia Liberia
@@naominyarku674 Greetings to you. I hope you liked my joke about the greatest Liberian in my convention summary video 😃😃😃
Loved your predictions. I have found the only way you can get an active JW actually think is to ask them, "what changes do you think they will make next?"(which in my mind is a sly way of saying, "what do they have wrong.") My very pimo elder/uncle thinks it will be the 1914 doctrine. I agree that they will eventually have to do something about disassociation. I also feel that it will be as hollow and meaningless as the changes in DFing. My only hope is that as the pressure builds they will lead to actual meaningful changes. As for putting the formal preaching work out to pasture? I can only hope, but I think they are still a long ways away from doing that. Yes the annual meeting should be interesting. Hope it's not a "nothingburger".
Inviting disfellowshipped ones;
"Or someone who was once close to us."
Taking off emotions like changing clothes and into different emotions.
Just that quickly and easily.
WTF
Great points Chaka as always! I agree and do think it is strange that they dont mention disassociation. I think they are waiting to change the wording or maybe just trying to ignore the fact that is is still a persons right to do so. Maybe they will call it choosing to leave the congregation or this person has choosen to leave Jehovah. Either way im sure the punishment will be the same. Also thanks for including Bart Ehrmans thoughts on shunning. He is such a reasonable man and bible scholar. I read his armageddon book not to long ago because a friend recommend it. It definitely helped me put away any fear of the book of revelation or armageddon itself had over me personally. Just another step in the deprogramming process.
Hey MovieMan! Great points as well. I think you're onto something with the new wording. Yes, Watchtower can't give up control over who exists the religion, which is really sad. Thanks for mentioning Bart's book on Armageddon. I'll definitely check it out
If the Watchtower Society's Governing Body are going to scrap, or do away with, the policy of disassociation, then they may as well do away with the cruel and unjust shunning policy too.
My brother was Disfellowshipped for about 10 years, during that time the elders never once visited him or sought to get him to return. They are full of 💩
@@Jpfisho82 Sad
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns sad but I'm glad he's woken up to what they are now
Why don't they explain what an apostate means. In my opinion they use that word to end conversation full stop. That means they don't have to defend their religion . It reminds me of that film Ben huir when someone shouts lepper. I am a former jehovahs witness.
@@Graceland1964 Great point!
Well some month's ago it was one that didn't followed GB and hade a beard.
Anyone who disagrees with a doctrine, as far ranging as Christmas to the No Blood Doctrine. Apostate.
Several speakers have used the word “apostate” as if it’s the dirtiest word in the English language. They show disgust with their facial features and body language every time they go after exJW’s. I really wish more of us would insist on the truthful title for this movement: WHISTLEBLOWERS!
Christine Sotelo, it could also mean someone who formerly was promoting kingdom interests, but now is actively working against kingdom interests, like you
Respect from Vietnam. Thanks.
@@nhatphutruong9568 I think this is the first time we've had a comment from Vietnam on the channel. Thank you for tuning in🙏🙏🙏
Ok. JWs can invite a person who has been REMOVED FROM THE CONGREGATION..TO ATTEND THE CONGREGATION? Huh? Make it make sense.
Touchè! 😄😄😄 The quickest 'touche' comment on the channel so far💪💪💪
It makes perfect sense. Your problem is you don't know what you're talking about
The 'disassociation policy' changed in 1981. Previous to that they were treated like non-Witnesses and it was up to the individual as to how/if you associated with them.
It seems that the change was based on the situation with Ray Franz and his association with his disassociated employer. To get Ray 'out of the way', there would need to be a way to disfellowship him....
So if shunning is up to the individual person, it would feel so uncomfortable to attend a KH, and some would be nice and someone else would turn their backs on you. That’s confusing too, never knowing if they’re going to be hot or cold.
@@christinesotelo7655 This is the problem with the JW leaders. Whenever they have the opportunity to do the right thing they choose to do the wrong thing. They could easily have said "let's just show love and kindness to people who turn up at our meetings". But no it has to be caveated
Very true. It makes me cringe and also angry every time that brother says it's good to see you here and points at the floor of the hall. It's so unloving and so insulting to any that have been disfellowshiped in the past,possibly being shunned and made to feel like they dont exist for years. Just very sad.
I love the Bart Ehrman podcast, too
Hello Chaka, you always do great👍! I have to thank you again and, as always, send greetings from Germany🇩🇪 to the UK 🇬🇧😊
Thank you so much Uvolio. I really appreciate your support of the channel🙏🙏🙏
We should do some sort of big organized protest, write letters on mass scale, have signs with website names or yotube channels or something like that
@@seven-in2je I agree. Something needs to be done to stop this shameful practice
@@seven-in2je You go ahead and you can be responsible just like the scribes and Pharisees in Jesus day. Does not the Bible say let the weeds and the wheat grow together for fear you may pull up some of the wheat. You go ahead with this attitude and if someone happens to get killed or persecuted it will be on you. I know God would not approve of you hating on one of his people.
I was marked and shunned at the age of 11.
@@ricklee5802official.1Rope_fan That is insane and illegal
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns minors are dfd and shunned all the time. I was marked because my 17 year old CSA predators father was an elder. He did that to cover up the crime or sin in their eyes. My childhood was horrid.
@@ricklee5802official.1Rope_fan Yes, I know. It's a massive problem in the religion. I'm really sorry to hear about your shocking experience. I hope you've been able to find healing.
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns thank you. Im doing well. My case was heard at the Australian Royal Commission. Keep up your awesome work. Keep safe.
@@ricklee5802official.1Rope_fan That's amazing! Please email me if you are interested in co-hosting an episode on the channel
Great work!
To me, it seems that their position has NOT changed regarding people who have disassociated and there is nothing to clarify.
@@RobbieJayOne You're right, the policy has not changed but they have not addressed some obvious questions that have arisen from the recent policy changes e.g. can a disassociated person be greeted when they turn up at the Kingdom Hall?
They are taking so long to put in writing, their new procedures for dealing with baptised children/teenagers. There is no way they can back this up with the bible. They may use the headship of the parents but if they do then they must make changes to how married wives are also to be treated since they are under the headship of their husbands.
@@RiverDanube They have addressed in the August 2024 Watchtower but WT nowadays don't even try to justify their wild ideas with scriptures.
Being a JW is like a signing a terms & conditions contract; it looks like a standard contract until it’s, too, late to realize there were a lot of hidden fine print on the very last pages.
Imho, The Org. since the 1990’s have been slowly trying to separate The GB from The Org, meaning there’s been policies & rules to protect the Board of Trustees.
There’s been a slew of subtle changes, including differentiating all of the branches from w/in the organization and registering them as different incorporated functions.
The Organization is great at using tricky words, semantics if u will. The latest mock language has been “Your spiritually ‘trained’ conscience.’ What does this mean?
Well, I’m of the opinion that now The Organization will substitute “rules” for principles. They’ve already geared their members to see “the principles” from Bible passages. So, instead of outright saying “it’s wrong”, they’ll train their members via various articles, talks, scriptures to train their members to continue the same line of thinking.
B/c individuals of the congregation r no longer considered “members” of the religion, now if a person is shunned or if a CSA matter is mishandled, The Organization can easily absolve itself, & place the blame on that individual’s understanding or spiritual conscience.
Talked to a family member who’s never been a JW, but is in law; they looked over some of the material posted online & compared. Literally said it’s the same thing w/ different wording to protect the parent company. It’s a repacking & redistribution.
Exactly what I’ve thought too! Watchtower is incredibly sleazy and knows exactly how to appear to change words while saying the same exact thing a different way! Despicable liars!
Love Bart , extremely intelligent man
We do not need to ignore him, completely... God please help them 🙏🏽❤️
Thank you 🙏❤️
STOP THE SHUNNING
I started to say that if the Watchtower Society is going to scrap, or abolish, the policy of disassociation, then it might as well abolish the cruel and unjust shunning policy too.
Should never be such thing as a baptized minor ! FULL STOP 🛑
You can fade now without it being announced nor shunning
@@cybrough I was talking about disassociating in the video, not fading
Very carefully and at great length ... I had to relocate, change phone number and obtain a new email address and dodge contact constantly.
As far as the Blood doctrine, if someone (JW) decides to save their life, if they don’t admit it was wrong and they don’t apologize for saving their life, they can be disassociated? That doesn’t sound good either! They are getting very confusing.
When I was disfellowshipped in the eighties it devastated my children. They lost all respect for me because of how the so-called Christians treated me. Like I wasn't there.. my kids treated me the same. Even to this day, and they went totally opposite of God. They want nothing to do with religion all these years later, even though I found God, the real Creator of this world we are all in
Shunning is THE most important control tactic of the WTS. Without this control, there would be huge losses of membership. Many stay in because of familial ties and friendships who would otherwise be gone.
Crazy how they won’t just come out and say hey ok look this is what happened n we lost some cases and we’re changing my policy for this reason no they say it’s new light so new light means the government or countries have made us change this or that
They not writing New material cause they gotten things wrong so many times that they afraid doing it again. They can just blame everything on former GB members that came up with doctrines. They not making real changes cause they can blame everything on former GB members that organised how org should work. It's all about blaming someone else. And gonna do the same. On judgment day I'm gonna say " GB members fooled me. I don't take any responsibility for what they done" 😊
The governing body has decided….. authoritative…. Depicting ownership… control …
On the subject of disfellowshipping/Disassociation there’s something I’ve been thinking about. What about a case like in the ARC case? So a young person suffers through abuse by an Elder/Servant/Publisher and they follow the directions and go to the Elders to report it. There’s not 2 witnesses so the Elders say there’s nothing they can do. The Elders are not trained psychologically or otherwise to handle someone that has been abused, so they say “wait on Jehovah, pray, etc…” Since the Elders do not help by reporting the abuse to authorities and they cannot take action to protect the young person or others from the abuser by removing them from the congregation because of the 2 witness rule, the young person is baptized and decides they are not adequately supported nor do they feel safe in the congregation and by extension, the organization, so the young person decides to disassociate.
Even tho this young person has done nothing wrong, but decides they cannot remain in an organization that allows abusers to remain in the congregation, they will be cut off by their friends, family, and congregation as a result of the dissociation. I just can’t imagine that the Jehovah we know, could support this type of arrangement. Am I wrong to think this way?
@@Mercipher21 You're right. It's wild! Shunning people who choose to leave the religion is a gross violation of the most basic human rights.
They will do anything for money
All for their charity status
It is so vile of watchtower to show pictures of children leaving home once they have left the religion. In actual fact, the parents MUST kick them out or be punished themselves. 😢😢😢
They love be in control .If they would stop shunning, people would feel more free. More relaxed.
Can’t even begin to tell you how much this makes my blood boil.
If the term disfellowshipped has been replaced by removed from the congregation, what category would someone who disassociates and remove themselves from the WT?..Lol
"self-removed from the congregation"
@@adamantiumbullet9215 Touchè!
That would be the last thing they would ever do.
I doubt this will happen… but if there is, I’d take it as a win, and about 1/3 of the issues that I have with witnesses would be gone.
I think if they would allow people to associate with x members, there would be a provision to shun those that are living in a way that they don’t agree with (lgbtq, doing drugs…).
The verbiage of " the GB has decided" helps to keep people in the mindset that they CAN'T or aren't allowed to make their own decision on things. They need to be told that they can "use their Bible trained conscience". So sad.
@@Seasiren1215 Very sad indeed
Hi Chaka, Is it possible to get a pdf file of the book or pamphlet "Organized to do Jehovah's Will?"
@@dianehanson5691 Hey Diane! I think you can download it from the jw.org website. Just type in the book title in the search bar and click on publications. It used to ask if you're a Jehovah's Witness before it lets you download, if it does just click "yes"
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns I will try that, thanks!
@@dianehanson5691 Send me an email if you can't get it
Congregation numbers getting low?
Yes, on the one hand they tell you to use your Bible trained conscience and then contradict themselves by preventing you, under threat, from doing so, there by sinning against God!
When is the next Annual Meeting?
@@vestland3877 The first Saturday in October
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns my prediction is that they go even harder or waaaay softer.
The amount of PIMO’s I know are just exploding here in northern Europe.
Side story: I went with a family member to a Sunday meeting out of respect. Not been in the KH for 8-9 years.
It was the same people, just less and older.
Same Elders, just older.
One new elder, but I suspect he is gay. Never seen him near a woman.
What happens to the organization when they wrong a member like me and a Court Judgment determined against the organization?
@@gordonlotsu556 The GB will tell you to talk to the hand. There is no justice in this world😒😒😒
Hi! Great video. Do you know or have any idea where Tony Morris is? I know where he is but, is he a non believer now? I have a feeling the rest of the body wanted to make changes & he didn’t want to. But to no longer be a GB member & now not attending meetings?🤷🏻♀️
I’ve been out since October 2012! I live across the street from the Kingdom Hall!!! My mother shunned me the last 8 years of her life. I was 42 years old when I left, my adult kids got me to see what was really going on!🎉🎉🎉
@@TracyLeaBeauty Hello. Congratulations on leaving and especially that your children left with / before you. I have done a video on the Tony Morris saga. It's entitled "Why Anthony Morris Was Booted From the Governing Body and Why He'll Never Speak Out.
Thank you for tuning in and for your kind words.
If a person leaves because they were awakened in Christ Jesus and saved in the Holy Spirit, they didn't leave God. They left a cult.
About time - destroyed many family and fr relationships not to mention the number of victims who took their lives - totally unscriptual - it's not man's place to judge - we were commanded to live even our enemies 🙏
@@db-g7023 I don't expect any meaningful changes to take place just yet but let's just hope the pressure continues from the authorities and that will force some changes
Shunning is simply heinous, it is against human compassion and kindness, it promotes coldness and is typical behavior for cults. But who is wrong? JW's or Paul in Corinthians 5? Both! Jesus would never give up and refuse to associate and eat with a sinner, let alone decide to shun and reject him. Only authoritarian organizations that are afraid of people who have different opinions can react so shamefully.
I prefer to be ignored rather than something half ass to be honest not that having sex without a piece of paper is really that bad anyway like they make it out to be.
New Light = We were wrong! It's that simple. It's not new light that beards are suddenly okay. No, it's nothing more than the little chubby one wanting a beard. The end. Policy changed. The entire policy was based on Rutherford having a burr up his butt about Russell and it's very common knowledge to the semi-educated person on JW history.
New light = we lost court cases
Got Pharisee?
🤷♂️ IJS
Blah blah blah me me blah blah blah obey me… give me money…. Blah blah blah
How can’t current JWs, felt something is wrong when they heard the change of beard! Didn’t this org had DF’d members who had beard back days! Where is the natural affection for them😮
I don't think they ever disfellowshipped people for having beards but it was very heavily frowned upon. People even lost "privileges" for having beards. You're right - JWs should have smelled something fishy but a lot of JW men just went and grew beards.
Oh nowwwww you wanna talk to me when your numbers are dwindling 😂
We should be able to shun governing body members 😅
Why not 😂
I can barely listen to the way they talk anymore. Forget about what they are saying, it sounds so fake. "A warm appeal" made me want to throw up.
Ugh. I know. Every one of them has the same belittling tone and cadence, like their talking to little children. It's insanely condescending.
@@Eric_01 It's a cult for weak men to feel powerful. They get to control women without being men. They get to make excuses for being poor and pathetic with fake promises that will never come true. Beta is the word that comes to mind.
The word shunning is not used in the JW organization. I think you all need to take this up with Almighty as He is the one telling his people not to love the world, to stay away from bad association, not eat with an unrepentant wrong doer and tons of council that tells a Christian in good standing what he needs to do to stay clean and why. Take the lesson from what Achan did that resulted in God's anger toward Israel. (Joshua 7:1) "But the Israelites were unfaithful with regard to what had been devoted to destruction, for Aʹchan son of Carʹmi, son of Zabʹdi, son of Zeʹrah, of the tribe of Judah, took some of what was devoted to destruction. At this Jehovah’s anger blazed against the Israelites" The principal is the same today when a baptized member in the Christian congregation commits a gross sin and tries to hide it or when caught refuses help from the Elders and refuses to express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing. Bible says to stay away of the leaven that corrupts the whole lump.
Do you really think a member of the Christian congregation who chooses to live an immoral life is good association? What you might want to know is why Christians do not associate with wicked or immoral people rather than bad mouth the JW organization because they choose to follow their God as ruler rather than man. Bad association spoil useful habits.
@@ronhansen8471 If we are going to be pedantic about following the JW rules, should you really be watching so-called "apostate" channels and even commenting on them?
Disfellowshipping equals shunning. That they've chosen a different word only for the sake of not being hypocrites because they literally condemned the practice only two years before they implemented it themselves. Tom-ay-to, Tom-ah-to. Same thing.
The "Almighty" is NOT telling his people to keep from bad association. It's only Paul writing to Corinth. That is as far from God speaking as it can get. Cute little one-liner, though. "Bad association spoils useful habits." That is so common sense that it boggles the mind that a congregation of grown adults had to even be told that.
As for the rest, you lost me at "Jehovah's anger blazed". What an impatient a$$ hole he is. Always smiting and genociding.
Tell me, if you knew a brother in the congregation that started smoking and got himself disfellowshipped, you would stop talking to him. Absolutely no speak of such a "rule" in the entire bible. Based on nothing. In fact, JWs were allowed to smoke for more than half a century. New light? LOL. However, if your own mother had never been a witness, but she smoked, would also treat her as dead for the same action? I'll answer it for you. NO. JWs consistently associate with non-believing friends or relatives with the very same habits that a baptized person would get the axe for. You do nothing out of principle, and everything out of fear a peer pressure by your community.
Drunk?
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There’s more new light this year than the last ten combined. Pathetic.
Loosing court cases sure makes the light blink!
A word of advice my brother, while Bart Ehrman is a very knowledgeable scholar, he indeed is a very skeptical scholar. I've noticed you tend to follow him but please search solid and sound Christian scholars instead
Why?! Why would someone want to seek scholarly information from a biased source? Regardless, MUCH of what Ehrman explains regarding biblical history and context is shared by Christian scholars, anyway. Ehrman was a Christian well into adulthood. It was learning more and more facts about the bible that changed him. You should take note of that.
@Eric_01 I'm well aware of Bart's bio and learn a lot of things from him myself, but you totally missed my point. My point is the opposite of what you think. That is to avoid someone's particular biased ideas, you make a conclusion after your own personal study of scriptures as well hearing the commentary from multiple scholars on a matter.
For an example, if I need to know what's the best treatment for a condition, I would consult with as many doctors as I can before making a choice. That's my point...BTW, you are settling for Bart's biases if he's your only source
@@try_himsee3335 Fair enough. Bart's not my only source, but I highly respect his conclusions. I listen to quite a few people that aren't at the "scholar" level, but are very good.
There ie nothing spiritual going on with these changes. The wording makes that crystal clear. “The governing body has decided.” Not the Bible directs, or Jehovah directs us to this decision “
This is a man made religion, nothing spiritual about it, and they the governing body, decides everything and Jesus Christ and Jehovah have no part in anything they do.
@@marcieebaby At this rate Jehovah and Jesus take instructions from the Governing Body
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Bart himself has been shunned by evangelicals.
I don't suppose the evangelicals' shunning is as severe or as enduring as the JW version
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns you’d be surprised how severe it can be. During interviews with faculty at certain seminaries a question is brought up regarding thoughts on Ehrman. If you don’t denounce Erhman, no job for you.
@@RiskeFactor That's wild! I guess if these are fundamentalist seminaries, it wouldn't be surprising that they expect their recruits to be fully believing, which is contrary to Ehrman's views. It's still crazy that they have such an attitude towards such a fine scholar.
I'm not sure if there's any evangelical denomination that practises the hard shunning that JWs do to the extent that even your closest blood relatives treat you like you're dead.
You don’t make the rules for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Who appointed you. If you repent you can be grafted back in. You’re relying on your own understanding . The Bible also ask who is the faithful discreet slave. Meaning they slave for the congregation. These men are faith men. They don’t get paid either. For the Bible says you get free you give free. Because these elders are very serious you hate on them.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q I don't hate on anyone. I criticise harmful, toxic, reckless, abusive and unscriptural policies and doctrines. If the Jehovah's Witnesses leadership stop implementing such harmful policies I will stop criticising them. Until then, the criticism and exposure will continue.
They get paid
@@vestland3877 The elders don’t. They have jobs if they aren’t retired . The overseers may get a little bit just to care for their needs for when they travel to different congregations. The overseers if invited will stay with different people of the congregations. There are certain places they might stay that were built by the congregation when there are conventions that they stay in. Many do not even own homes. They do not waste the donations . Very organized. They have a building committee that will rebuild homes for the congregation if destroyed, say in a hurricane. And sometimes they will build homes for people who are not Witnesses. As well as having a medical committee. They don’t usually hire anyone to build the Kingdom Halls. The congregation volunteers. Everything is run by donations. They are not government funded. They go by the laws of the state,such if they have to file for certain things. They take the scriptures and what Jesus taught very seriously. They will dis fellowship any person that does wrong doing, say that commits fornication, or cheats on their husband or wife, or if they do something else that goes against the scriptures. This is to keep the congregation clean as Jesus commanded. They form cleaning committees within the congregations so they don’t waste the donations. The elders don’t receive any money but give their time freely. Which everything revolves around the truth. It’s a way of life for them. Everything is done for the congregations. A elder even took time out to fix my step for me. I didn’t even ask him to. These elders work very hard for the congregation. These men organize their lives around the truth, making sure all is well. Most people do not understand they take the truth very seriously. They are not perfect , but I can say they try really hard. Most elders are what I call mild temper. Every one works as a team including the congregation.
These people who have been disfellowship for their wrong doing or because they just don’t want to be a witness anymore are twisting a lot of things , I guess it’s because they want to justify their wrong doing, or they get tired. It’s not easy to try to do things according to the scriptures. People will make mistakes and then try to justify it. These people know how hard these brothers work for the congregation. It’s not like they don’t know. They just don’t like the consequences of their actions. No need to put down the brothers for their wrong doing.
Many wrong doers come back to the truth years later. They can be grafted back in if they truly have repented and stop all the wrong doing.
@@PeggyHartman-e2q I was talking about GB. Your true Messiah
@@AnthonyMorrisReturns - thank you
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This is good news. This also keeps the congregation clean. All Bible based. That’s what the Bible says to do. They don’t mock anyone like you say. As the light gets brighter more knowledge comes out. Does not God say to abstain from blood? You don’t know but you assume . You know nothing about the Witnesses . Just a lot of self assuming.
Look up Christmas, Easter. All related to pagan gods.
How many times are you going to say, I think?
How can the light get brighter in just one single week? Just ONE SINGLE WEEK after they lose the court case in Norway they changed the disfellowshipping rule after MORE THAN 50 YEARS of hard core shunning. They even lie to the courts and say that each individual jehovah's witness had a choice whether or not to associate with the disfellowshipped person when we all know this is patently untrue. How on earth can the governing body "reflect on jehovah's mercy" just one week after losing a major court case and make radical changes?
Have you ever looked up the pagan rituals and beliefs associated with weddings? Yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses do all those things in their wedding ceremonies…rings, bridesmaids, bouquets, white dress, veil, etc. very hypocritical, don’t you think? And, you are not a true Jehovah’s Witness if you are watching videos like this, you are a Watchtower apologist, a true believer would NEVER watch an apostate video.
Keeps the congregation clean? We're largely talking about shunning people who are leaving it, anyway. They are already out of the congregation. What is gained by shunning these people by their parents, siblings, and even their own children? To serve what purpose? The congregation? They were already gone! Meanwhile, you same people who will shun someone ONLY because their name was read from the stage will still associate freely with acquaintances and relatives with far worse actual habits, but on a technicality, were never baptized. I've seen it a hundred times, so don't even try. The principle should be to avoid people whose practices would be a bad influence, but JWs will largely not do that. They will only apply the rule to someone whose name is read from the stage and now they themselves would face scrutiny or disfellowshipping themselves for going against the grain.
Also, Acts 15:28 was nothing more than a letter to the Gentiles, NOT ALL OF MANKIND FOREVER. It's also referring to the blood of sacrificed animals, obviously, as it is sandwiched between other rules regarding sacrifices. It makes no clear point what-so-ever regarding the use of human blood to actually save your life. Why? Because those ding-dongs had not concept of the concept of medical use of blood. It does not apply. It's so unbelievably vague that it couldn't possibly support the policy that your GB simply made up and spun from nothing.
@@inapickle4971 no they don’t. Not the true Witnesses
@@inapickle4971 besides probably outsiders posting this. All kinds of lies and assumptions posted
2nd comment.. Over 20yrs ago scripturally I showed the elders how disfellowshipping is not scriptural. Only 1 Person in the 1st century was ever described in the Bible as being removed. All the other times Paul won ppl back even while they were sexual immoral. 2 cor.