Why Do We Say “Asian American” Not “Oriental”?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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The word Oriental is hundred of years old, so why do Americans no longer use the word “Oriental”? And how did the word “Asian American” take its place? Watch this week’s Origin of Everything to find out.
Written and Hosted By: Danielle Bainbridge
Graphics By: Noelle Smith
Edited By: Linda Huang and Mike Petrow
Fact Check: Sarah Edwards
Produced By: Kornhaber Brown (www.kornhaberbrown.com)
Recommended Binge Episodes:
• Revolutionary 60s
Works Cited:
www.latimes.com...
www.latimes.com...
cityroom.blogs...
Edward Said Orientalism (1978)
www.aljazeera....
www.google.com...
www.researchga...
www.npr.org/se...
www.smithsonia...
www.npr.org/te...
www.pbs.org/ne...
www.cnn.com/20...
www.huffington...
www.nytimes.co...
www.laweekly.co...
articles.latime...
americanhistory...
www.foundsf.org...)
www.temple.edu/...
"orient, n. and adj.". OED Online. March 2018. Oxford University Press. www.oed.com/vie...
"Occident, n. and adj.". OED Online. March 2018. Oxford University Press. www.oed.com/vie...
I heard the alternative word for Western once, but I'm pretty sure it was on occident.
Colonizer.
I chuckled.
Yes. In the UK we call Asia as Oriental and Asian as indian
clever
Groooaaaan!
Ok, so I have now made it my mission to use occident in some casual conversations at some point in the future.
Occidentals from Europe?
Yeah, you little accident
Same here, dude...
😂😂😂
Well Westerners are the same as Occidentals and Easterners same as Orientals.
I've always used the word every now and then for more than a decade now.
Asia is a gigantic continent. When you say "Asian", why should that only refer specifically to eastern Asians (orientals)? Are people not aware that Asia also includes other phenotypically distinct people such as Caucasians in the north and west, Arabs in the southwest? What about the Turkic peoples of Asia minor or the enigmatic Kazaks of the "stan" countries? None of these groups look the same, and yet they are all natives of Asia. The history of bigotry and hate aside, it seems that a separate term is required to properly describe the highly distinct peoples of eastern and southeast Asia. If not 'oriental' then pick a different word; but "Asian" simply doesn't cut it.
Saying East Asian is like saying east easterner. Caucasian is funny be use it contains the world Asian. Caucasian used to refer primarily to the regions surrounding the Caucus mountains.
It might be because in the US, most of the Asians that are here are from east Asia, from China specifically. In the UK, Asian usually refers to the Indian subcontinent, probably because of the long (and mostly horrific) history the Brits have had with that region.
Yeah almost as bad as calling anyone with a pale complexion "white", as if they have no culture, heritage, nationality, etc. It doesn't matter if you are a fair skinned Asian, or a fair skinned Oriental at that point.....now you are just "white".
@@lythonoise So, saying West European is like saying west Westerner? You're not making any sense. East Asia is Japan, China, North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan and Mongolia.
@@lythonoise "Saying East Asian is like saying east easterner." So? "East Asian" is a perfectly acceptable and specific term.
I am from Europe. I don't see any racism connected to "oriental". Is this just American?
Yes, exactly. I'm an American and grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 60's and 70's. "Oriental" was a normal term. But it did indeed have deeply racist origins as described in the video. I lived overseas (the Middle East and Europe) for most of the 90's and 2000's and missed then entire shift to "Asian-American". Especially after living abroad where "Asian" usually refers to the peoples of the Indian sub-continent, I found this very confusing upon repatriating. I now refer to those that I grew up referring to as "oriental" as "Far East Asian" and everybody seems to understand what I mean and nobody gets offended. Near East Asian is everything from the Bosporus to the Levant, Middle East is exactly what you think it is, Asian is the Indian sub-continent, and Far East Asian is everything from Myanmar to Japan, and Pacific Islander is everything east of that until you bump back into San Francisco where the geographic clock is reset to the West.
Ya, I'd never heard it used in a negative way outside of US shows until very recently & then it was in the context of talking about offensive terms that used to be positive or neutral. It's a lot harder for the meaning of a word to lose a negative connection than gain one though.
yes
Nope. Just an sjw thing.
@@5673hfueb says the white girl
Love your stuff, lady. You’re becoming one of my favorites on UA-cam. Everything is so well explained. I remember something about old time cartographers and their maps. The top of the map was designated as East (North is pretty arbitrary) which was called the orientation point - East became the Orient . I could have this wrong but it’s what I remember.
Hmmm very interesting, would love to see that explored!
Yes ... when in unfamiliar territory, to "orient" yourself is to determine from which direction the sun rises.
Wish We had these kind of videos when I was growing up, people these days have access to unlimited amounts of information literally at the palm of their hand. Just 30 years ago it was very different, ty Internet!
@@YoungBlood507 let’s hope we can maintain it
Will you do a video discussing the use of Hispanic verse Latino/a?
Sara Beth Stout yes please!
Latino refers to people whose primary language is of a Latin Origin (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, etc.) meaning both Mexicans and Brazilians are equally Hispanic as Mexico is a former colony of Spain and speaks Spanish and Brazil is a former colony of Portugal and speaks Portuguese.
However Hispanic refers to countries whose culture and ancestry dates back to Spain exclusively, Hispanic comes from Hispania, the Latin name for Spain, meaning Mexico, Argentina and Colombia are all Hispanic countries however Brazil is NOT Hispanic as they are not a former Spanish colony and are a Lusophone country.
Latino: All of Spanish speaking Latin America, Brazil, Haiti, Guadeloupe and Martinique
(Debateable: Quebec)
Hispanic: All of Spanish speaking Latin America
Don't forget about Chicano
David Pakman has an interesting video on this subject - being Jewish by heritage, Argentinian by birth, growing up speaking Spanish, then moving to the US and becoming fluent in English.
We have our history clear. There's no need for reconstruction.
Latin America as a melting pot starts with Christopher Columbus and it's reconfirmed with the wars of independence all across America, not the Americas.
Why they call West Asia Middle East?
The "Near East" was anything closer to Europe than Jerusalem (basically Turkey). The lands sociopolitically linked to Europe beyond the holy lands were the Middle East. Anything shrouded in mystery that Europeans had limited contact with was the Far East. "Mysterious Orient"
Its weird for me growing up in the UK asian means South Asian. Whilst Oriental was used for Far Eastern people. Arabs and Iranian are refered to asian for informal conversations I noticed growing up. But no one ever says West Asian specifically even tho some British people around me would use Asian to refer to Iranians and Leventine/Gulf Arabs (not Maghrebi Arabs who are considered african).
Middle west
@@Epic_Amir_Hamza I've never in my life seen anyone refer to arabs as asians. I've been in UK for more than 20years. Arabs refer to themselves as arabs and south asians identify themselves as asian. Also i disagree asian also refers to chinese people too and vietnamese but it's just not used that much.
@@isaacfoster2820 for most of my life Ive seen West Asians sometimes refer to themselves as Asian or acknowledge they are. L
Naseem Hamed is refered to Asian (he is British Yemeni).
Kayvan Novak once referred to himself as a British Asian actor in an interview (hes West Asian tho Iranian not Arab).
Roya Elsami is in that same boat as Novak.
In terms of people Ive met some of them say well their parents country of origin is in Asia (Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, etc). So whenever they got asked if they were Asian. Theyd say either Arab Asian, Middle East Asian or Asian but not Indian or Pakistani.
One Yemeni girl at university explaines that the middle east isnt a continent and people from there are technically Asian.
So maybe this opinion depends on generation or what area you live in.
Well, in Spanish, and are common words in academic environments, at least in Argentina where I live. It's used a lot when referring to the Cold War, too. It's not that we don't use or , though. They are used just as much in my opinion.
estamos hablando engles miha, la palabra oriental tienes la significa della orientalisma que tiene la significa della oritalismo en argentina no te nesecito saber las coisas del mondo oeste e mioride dos coisas delle mondo britanica.
che lingua am i wrighting now.
go to a good bibliotecha and check how racists orientalism is then check out how racists and misogynist im being now.
verdade!!
Ecuatoriano, aquí, nosotros usamos la palabra "occidental" y "oriental" en referencia al dirección. Poco veces usamos para describir a una persona. Lo que no son educado llaman a todos Asiático "Chinos".
People in Argentina are too busy dealing with real problems do pick random words to be offended by.
@@gregkosinski2303 pretty sure that most of latin america is offended by the last 200 years of US foreign policy.
Yeah Im pretty sure all south americans are offended by derogatory perceptions from the northern hemisphere!
@@RmcBlueSky es multo differente en la historia de englese. oriental occidental son palabras de la lengua Latin(Rome/biblia).
Orientalismo es racista, it doesnt mean east.
En multos partes de america latina los asians estan llamada Chinese y en brasil estan llamada japonese.
en inglaterra la gete asian estan llamada chinese o oriental y la gente que estan llamada turko em america latina estan llamada asian(arabia india shri lanka ect)
miralo la historia de orientalism and noble savages to see how derogatory the term is in english!
Lebanese here, I use oriental for myself and for other Asians. I don't see why it would be seen as racist. Yes, it was used in racist imagery but... they could've just as easily used 'Asian'. They just happened to use oriental. There's nothing racist about the word.
yes, in my country we use occidental and oriental as normal, non racist words.
in our language, we refer to ourselves and some countries as occidental, eastern refers to eastern Europe. And we also use these words to indicate a specific part of any region (like "X happened in oriental Spain" or "Jane lives in occidental Lisbon"
(I'm Portuguese btw)
@@hilaryhongkong Context... The Chinese exclusion act was born out of ignorance of the east. The Chinese people are a real ethnic group but in typical American ignorance Chinese meant everyone east of Europe
Sure but if you say it in earshot of an American you may get a bit of side eye to gauge whether your intent was malicious.
@@sellmoon the context is shaped by the historical use of the word. When I hear "Oriental" I think of things, not people.
Like everyone here said it's context. Other countries still might refer to brown people as colored but it's a faux pas to call a black person colored in America because of the history of the word colored. Just like Oriental.
I am Oriental. Is the "oficial" denomination for us Uruguayans, because the country's full name is Oriental Republic of the Uruguay.
When I visited Japan, I was really surprised by how often the Japanese used the word “oriental” in an English context for describing things, but it was never used to describe people.
I use "Occident" or "occidental" when someone calls European or Commonwealth countries "civilized". But I'm french and "occidental" is actually the closest word we have to translate "western", both meaning "from the west" and all that.
if you like it use it, plus its part of history right?
@@touchmeoverlord2767 Wow is that comment old. I feel like I wasn't quite as clear as I could have been. I'm french. "Occidental" is the only pertinent french translation of "Western", so we mostly use "Occident" and not the french translation of "The West" to talk about "the western part of the world" for coherence. Also, before that video I wouldn't have thought that there was a difference of meaning/hidden meaning/historical use in American English between "Western/Occidental" and "Eastern/Oriental" so I would have used them both without knowing, copying the french language. That's quite amazing, I commented that educational video and forgot to mention that it educated me, I sound like I want to dismiss the content. No congrats, two-years-ago-me.
conversely as a New Zealander living in Maau China, I always laugh when someone calls me a westerner "I was born further East than you were"
@@ChurchillGeoffTo be fair, they mean culturally western. It's just a quirky thing from language being imperfect and the British sticking their business everywhere, not a literal, serious thing.
Your channel is amazing! I am a cultural anthropology student and love the way you use your field of study and help other people understand different topic related to it. You make it very easy to understand broad and difficult topics, while being very transparent which recourses you use.
I had an Asian co-worker years ago who kindly explained to me that "oriental" is used when talking about things (like art), but "asian" is to be used when talking about people.
I was born in South Carolina; NOT South Sudan. I shouldn't have a "hyphen." I'm as American as the next person born here.
You are so right. White Americans should be called "European-Americans", most of them have a lineage as long or even shorter than a lot of BIPOC people and yet you see Karens yelling "go back to your country". If that ever happens to you, just yell the same shit back! But yo, we Europeans don't want these people either :D we got enough racists, sadly
@Bruh Moment yessss! Or whatever they called their land, because America is the name the colonizers gave the continent...
@@stellamaris9634 Turtle Island
In french "occidental" is the main word for western.
Same for Spanish.
Same for Portuguese
yeah i guess the rounded eyes were too good to be called "occidental"
Same in Spanish.
Well, you will have to change that because some idiotic English speakers used it in a hierarchial designation of civilizations. Sorry. (but to be serrious, thanks for the comment)
I'm intrigued why you only talk about replacing Oriental with Asian _American_ ... what about people who are actually Asian, living in Asia? Or did they not used to be referred to as Oriental?
In the UK, it gets even more confusing. In official terminology, "Asian" refers only to Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan ... but *not* Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Malay, Thai or Vietnamese, despite those countries being well and truly within Asia!
Same in several latin americans countries... for us an asian is a person from India, or Iran, or Pakistan... while chinese, japanese, koreans are called orientals...
That is cultural differences... in many countries oriental is not derrogatory nor racist way to call people from the yellow race...
okay so mongoloid is a straight up racial slur lmao
On the other hand, as someone who is Indian living in a different country you would not believe how many times I've been called "not a real Asian" 😂🙄🙄 it actually really pisses me off! Like dude, where is India??
(Btw no offense intended, I understand if you make the distinction in your vocabulary with Asian and oriental - but when you live in a country where only one word is used, and yet India isn't real Asia, it's just frustrating 😅)
I thought Asian referred to literally everyone in or from Asia. That’s how I understand it
Personally, I don't want to use the same term that is given to objects and instant ramen noodle flavoring to myself. I've never heard of an Asian Rug...
6:37 The problem with replacing "Oriental" with "Asian," is that the continent is enormous. If we say "Asian-American," are we talking about someone from China? Pakistan? Syria? That's why I say "East Asian," "South Asian" and so on. Same issue with indigenous people from the Americas. "Native American" could encompass Iroquois, Sioux or Cherokee. Vastly different cultures.
And Caucasians are Asian too. I agree with u imagine saying asian and classifying Syrians and iraqis with chinese people
Definitely. Asia is home to more than half of humanity.
Plus, "American" is mostly used only to resident of the USA...
Yeah but isn't Korea South Asia.
Oriental used to include people from the Middle East as well as the rest of Asia so it was just as broad.
East Asian, West Asian, South Asian, South-East Asian, etc. Could be good replacements to be more specific.
I've literally only heard the term Occidental in highly technical settings, never casual discussion.
lmgtfy.com/?q=occidental+culture
Lodfield Kerman
Thanks, I know what Occidental means. I was responding to the question in the video of, "Have you ever heard it used in casual conversation?" I have not.
Not sure if this is casual enough, but Occidental College is a private liberal college in Los Angeles.
I learned of the word ONCE in AP World History Class. In 2007. That's it.
Europa Man yea US public schools are worst than crap. Public school teachers have terrible salaries and funding is always cut every year. Maybe private schools has a better chance of hearing that word.
If we are born in America why can't we all just be American.
Or just people or humans.
Based on what I've learned from all these Origin of episodes the answer to your question is because white people keep trying to tear everyone else apart. if you don't believe me look at every episode.
That's what I say when I am asked. And then when they clarify that they are asking about what my ethnicity is, then I say Mexican.
Why is it that only Americans use the hyphen to describe people of non-European origin? I've never heard the term African-Brit or Afro-European or Afro-Frank. You are either an American or not. The US used to be considered a melting pot in that it described the assimilation of immigrants INTO American culture, but that is no longer the case.
ravenhawk007 America is all about race. Sure it would ok to sure we are all American and hold hands and shit. I don't see that happening when there are white supremacist (I didn't say all white people so calm down) out there with hatred in their heart and non White supremacist white people afraid of every non white person because they saw something on tv.
here in Egypt the term "orientalist" is used to refer to colonial scholars who studies our culture and life style to make colonialism seam morally acceptable and even beneficial to the peoples of the colonies to the people of whatever mother land the colonizing armies came from (in Egypt's case that was England and before it France), those scholars were a part of a propaganda machine promoting "the white man's burden" so the term rubs my people the wrong way.
In India also.....it is used for scholars who studied Indian history.....
Yes to perpetuate your hatred for western society like this moronic video does.
I'M 76 YRS OLD. I have used the word " Oriental " my entire life and it has had ZERO pejorative connotation. Who made this negative stuff up????? It is like using the "Negro" which was never pejorative as well.....When growing up in Alabama, "Negro" was the polite word to use. After all , it just means "black" in Spanish and "black" is an acceptable term . This silliness needs to stop. You can call me Blanco all day long!!!
As an Occidental you wouldn't understand.
They changed "Oriental" Ramen noodles to "Soy Sauce Flavor", so you know that's when things have changed.
Why are expressions so contradictory? Like clean as a whistle. Aren't whistles full of spit? Or nonsensical like cute as a button. Buttons are cute now? Who knew?
Outside of military uniforms, most buttons are pretty generic now. But it used to be common for them to be very decorative. Especially with women's clothing. Crocheting & detailed painting used to be fairly common on buttons. And there are still people who collect buttons because they are fun to look at.
A good button or set of buttons could turn almost any piece of clothing from boring to interesting.
Although in the present day. Cute as a puppy. Or cute as a kitten woulud make more sence.
How "its raining cats and dogs" contradictory or Its a frog strangler both describe haevy rain storms, were the rain dropss hit very hard almost as if it were raining cats and dogs, ect its a way to say something, and may differ from place to place.
@@Delgen1951 - I once heard that the origin of "raining cats and dogs" was because heavy rains would dislodge stray cat and dog carcasses from English roofs, but there's no solid evidence of this, and several competing etymology theories.
*_However, raining frogs and fish is actually a well documented phenomenon!_*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_of_animals
Hey Tool!😂
Born and raised in Hawaii, I never felt like oriental was a discriminatory word or was ever threatened by that word(I have felt threaten by the use 'Jap' before tho, and context definitely matters). My grandma even said "Why you no find nice oriental boy" to me(because I was dating a filipino/haole).
What's a haole
@@jannchavez9257 white boi
When I was stationed in Hawaii in the 80s I understood even though no one actually had ever called me haole that is what the locals might call me because I'm white. Yet it seems to actually just mean not of Hawaiin decent. I would have not thought that a Filipino would be called a haole as they are Asian or maybe Pacific-Asian. From what you wrote I assume you are of Japanese ancestry, not native Hawaiian ancestry. It does all depend on our viewpoint.
@@braddblk yeah come to waianae with that attitude bruddah
Can we do a topic on the origins of anti-Semitism? Or the origins of how gaming became so widespread?
mwalsher as far as possible with reasonable sources.
You should make a video!
Boy what? Semitic is another word for JEWISH
JizzingTiger SquirtingDragon whatever dude you're ignorant
ThePwnzerWillDie Semitic refers to cultures which have traditionally spoken a Semitic language: Hebrew (not Yiddish, which is a German dialect, or Ladino, a Spanish dialect, spoken by Jews, and written in Hebrew script because Jews saw the Roman, Greek, and Cyrillic alphabets as tools of the oppressors), Arabic, Aramaic (spoken by Assyrian Christians in Iraq). Since Jews were the first Semitic people to form a significant minority in Occidental countries, the term most often refers to prejudice against Jews.
My friends and I find the whole racial categories amusing. My Ottoman heritage makes me oriental. Another friend from Pakistan is Asian. My friends from Algeria are African-American yet we all look somewhat similar yet my friend of Hungarian descent is always mistaken for Chinese and another friend who is Portuguese and another from Bangladesh are mistaken for Black.
We just find the whole thing crazy.
Your friend from Algeria, if he looks caucasoid-berber-arab, would be termed as such, not African, in the African-American sense,… African American normally refers to 'Afro' African peoples. You know, 'Black' people,.. who have plenty of diversity within themselves, but, are not cacausoid/europid.
But from what I gathered about Africans although not universal most Sub-Saharan Africans accept North Africans as African and have told me that they can too claim an African identity but this doesn't mean the same context as Black.
Here in the UK Oriental isnt offensive it used to refer to people of East and South East Asian descent. Similarly Americans would say Desi and Middle easterners for South Asians and West Asians.
Growinf up in the UK Asian normall only meant South Asians like Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi ect. But it was used for British Arabs and Iranian for informal context like Naseem Hamed being refered to as a British Asian boxer but he was British Yemeni. To this day I still refer to Leventine Arabs, Gulf Arabs, Iranians and Afghans as Asians the same way I do with South Asians because I never realised people distingiush us in any way. I still accidently refer to Far Easterners are Oriental tho
@@Epic_Amir_Hamza It's just best not to use it in the context of East Asian Americans but technically anything in Asia is Oriental. So it can apply to South Asians too etc. As you know I do believe West Asians are Asian but they in my experience don't claim it unlike South Asians and the 3 Central Asians I've met.
Oriental is absolutely not offensive in East-Asia. Here in China we have several famous companies called orient or oriental for example (in their English name of course) and you can see Oriental written on buildings all the time. e.g: Shanghai Oriental Notary Public Office or Orient Securities (a bank). Stop trying to be offended on someone else-s behalf.
My aunt used to live on Occidental Street in Oakland. My Mum explained the term to me, but I've never heard it used in contemporary speech. I've only read it in old books.
Love this channel ❤️
I still don't understand why we continue to differentiate ourselves based on race or region besides as a way to say what we look like. European doesn't always equal pink skin (for example) so it doesn't even really do that. As far as I can see, theres no real practical reason to continue to describe each other this way and it might be contributing to the insanity that is the human construct of race.
Humans screw it up every time!
The problem is that in the end of the day most people will judge other people based on appearance/ heritage etc. Humans tend to categorise and therefore differentiate on skin colour/ appearance. It’s not necessarily bad for us to acknowledge our differences. We should treat each other fairly and with respect despite the difference in appearance and culture.
Identity and culture.
Adding another label tells you more information about what culture a person comes from.
Labeling ourselves isnt wrong, how else would we describe our ethnic backgrounds that have unique customs? Of course there's stereotyping but labeling and categorizing isn't inherently bad, only when its done with prejudice. This narrative of being color blind is silly, its important of being aware of eachothers skin color and culture but without being discriminative regarding it
Hi there. "Occident" is widely used in latin languages to indicate the cultural-geographical context, and as far as I know, 'west' usually indicates the direction. In portuguese we tend to use west (Oeste) most often to indicate old western movies LOL
A lot of time we say the “wild west” to talk about the west when there were cowboys and such (: or the “old west” I guess I’ve heard too. Nowadays when I hear “out west” I think of modern day California / Oregon
In short: the term "Oriental" was the common expression during the era of open bigotry, so it has to be retired in order to SIGNAL our disassociation with those attitudes.
Like another poster said, if the term "Asian" had been more common in the past, we would be saying "Oriental" today.
And Europe wasn't the "starting line" in classical geography -- it was the West, the Occident. The starting line was the boundary between Europe and Asia (classically, the Don River to the Black Sea to the eastern edge of the Mediterranean to the Nile).
If you want a real term of self-importance, try Imperial China's reference to itself as "the Middle Kingdom."
This is all total BS. I will not say JAP but I will say ORIENTAL.
Imperial China.....China is still called the Middle Kingdom moron
As a Chinese person China is still the Middle Kingdom that’s what 中國 translate to... also I ya Oriental a lot too... this is stupid
Reminds me of some old oriental proverb. Reading ten thousand books is not as good as traveling ten thousand miles.
When I was a child in the late 1960s or early 1970s, my father taught me that both Chinese and Japanese were "Orientals." It was still being used in pop songs in the early 1980s. Later,I had to unlearn that.
Interesting! Although I did know that oriental had become a derogatory term in the US, I had never realised that the terms orient and occident are basically never used. In Latin languages that is still the term you use for political and historical discourse (for example to define the "Eastern Roman Empire", "the West", etc.). The term Oriental, however, does carry some negative connotation when used to refer to people from Asia, at least in Brazil.
Henrique Pimenta Gomes this is really interesting! Especially because "oriental" is not derogatory at all in Spanish, and I would've assumed it was the same in Portuguese!
It always has been.
I get that it has been used to offend, but honestly, it sounds a lot better and makes more sense than Asian American. People usually only use it to refer to Chinese, Korean, Mongolian, and Japanese people, which is useful because those peoples are historically and culturally similar. I think we should bring it back to differentiate between the different cultures of Asia instead of just grouping them all together into one. We could use it like how we use "Slavic" for the Slavic countries and "Germanic" for the Germanic countries. I guess we could also make a new term that is more like "Germanic". The oriental countries kinda are still mad at eachother, especially Japan, so you probably couldn't get away with calling them the Chinese or Mongolian nations. I don't know, it doesn't matter much.
@@leonedottWell, he did say Brazil. Maybe there is some unique history down there that made them view it negatively. There could also be some history from when Portugal was a more powerful nation, though, so maybe Portugal views it the same way as Brazil.
Very Informative!
Give it 5 years. The term Asian American will be offensive, if it isn't already.
it won't take that long.
There are always new trend words. Not long after, the new word will become offensive as well
That will only make sense the moment words like "italian american", "native american", or "african american" become controversial so don't hold your breath.
Danielle, you are rocking those braids and that top
Same...I love these videos & her style!
Hey guys, please help. This is a genuine question. I am of Russian descent but I’m not considered of Asian descent. The term oriental isn’t derogatory in my mind because it helps us understand what part of Asia someone is from. Afghanistan is part of Asia too but they aren’t categorized as Asian. So why can’t I describe someone with slanted eyes, similar alphabets, and overall similar appearances as oriental? I’m asking genuinely.
I never thought of the term Oriental as racist. It simply references a geographic region of the world. It is no different than someone calling me a North American, or someone else a European.
I've heard myself described as oriental a few times wen I was a kid, some 18 years ago. but I haven't heard it much at all since.
For many years I've been travelling Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, I didn't know that the word "Oriental" has that negative meaning. All the people seemed that they have no problem with using it. Even you can see the word on their streets, products' labels, TV commercials, etc.
Maybe because I've never been to U.S. yet.
It is all in the American mind. Nobody outside of the USA gets offended by it.
I love your videos! Thank you so much ❤
I'm taking a class on post-colonialism. I recommend reading 'discourse on colonialism' by Aime Cesaire and 'orientalism' by Edward Said. Very eye-opening.
No pun intended? LoL
I would just like to say that I truly adore your outfits.
So what do you refer people from the Asian sub-continent as?
From the country they are from. Indians are from India, and so on.
I've got family members from South India, and often questionnaires only have "Asian" as a choice, so I check "other" and fill in "Dravidian". I think in general genetically, people from East Asian are closer to Europeans than Dravidians--except perhaps Japanese who actually appear to have some admixture of proto-Dravidian genetics, probably from their Jomon ancestors.
This is all total BS. I will continue to use the term Oriental.
I call the whole thing Asia. From the south east of it to the Middle East
I'm half oriental(Japanese) and half occidental(White) . I don't like the term Asian. Especially since middle easterns and Indians/Pakistanis call themselves Asian. Don't call me Asian. I'm Oriental
THANK YOU FOR THIS EPISODE!!!!! My father (first generation Chinese Canadian) still uses the word "Oriental" to describe himself and others from Asia, as did my old boss (also first generation Chinese Canadian). Both have lived in this country for over 60 years, and I know they sitll use those terms, and that they are not the only ones. So needless to say I was confused as hell when a character from Avenue Q took exception to being called "Oriental" when I first saw it, having heard and used the term myself most of my life. But seeing this cultural context (being a second generation Asian in Canada, I think I've managed to be sheltered from the worst of the racist attitudes towards Asian people), I'm beginning to understand now. You're the first I've seen to tackle this question with any depth beyond "just go read a book". (thanks also for the references!)
I was raised with 2 Chinese best friends. I never called them Oriental I always called them Canadian unless describing them physically as Chinese or Asian.
@@hamburgerjones695 Thank you, I am aware that Asians can be among the most racist people on Earth as well. I make fun of my own for that all the time. Doesn't excuse the racism that second gen Asians here in N. Am. have to deal with on the regular.
Also, I myself am not necessarily offended by the word - I'm not sure where you got that impression. I was just thankful to get the context as to why my fellow diaspora were offended by that word, because it was never actually explained to me.
However, in the past two years, while I'm still not necessarily offended by the word itself, I have now learned from experience that most non-Asians who use that word tend to be people who think and do far worse when it comes to anti-Asian bigotry, so I have learned to be careful of them.
As for you, it's too bad you've suffered discrimination at the hands of other Asians. I'm sorry it's made you so bitter as to come attack an innocuous 2-year-old comment on a 2-year-old video.
Your last point doesn't make sense. You can't say Oriental is a blanket term but Asian isn't. What's the definition of someone described as Asian? They could be from China, India, Pakistan Saudi etc etc.
The arguments against the usage of the word oriental would have been much more compelling if actual example of racist usage were provided.
I see nothing wrong with the term. It tells the reader more (that is: it is more specific than Asian). If the reader has warped feelings about people from the far east, that is his problem. The writer's job is to inform.
I say Oriental.
Thanks! This is helpful as I'm learning Spanish and am working with using words that I wouldn't use in English.
This was really eye opening. But not for orientals. Their eyes are still partly closed.
Bigger question, is why you don’t just say American
"Oriental" is perfectly fine. I say that as an Oriental person and my entire family agrees. Most other Oriental people would probably agree too.
The term "Asian" is far too broad, as that encompasses a very large region and many countries, whereas "Oriental" is mostly understood to specifically refer to people of eastern Asia, such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc. In addition, some people in the western world associate "Asian" with Indian while others associate the term with Chinese or even something else so it's just confusing.
The only people I have ever heard claim that "Oriental" was offensive are a few non-Oriental Americans. To those people: Please stop. What is actually offensive is when you try to tell people of other ethnicities what they should and should not be offended by.
... did you watch this video?
You sound like you're stuck in the last century, smh
I'm a bit late to comments but the one term that wasn't mentioned was Celestials. Its probably considered inappropriate but is a antique term for Asians.
Unlike many of the commenters, I have understand the word "Oriental" to hold at least some uncomfortable and pejorative weight for many Americans. When I coordinated a masters school program in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (MAOM) I brought this to the leadership's attention for use in the student clinic as that's the title of the degree. With the common practice of referring to their own education and clinical practice as oriental medicine or "Chinese Medicine" (with that term sounding more comfortable while also inaccurate to the education) there seemed to be a forgetting of how these words come off when heard by those outside their field. I wonder how practitioners can use different language to promote their clinics without creating, at the very least, unease with the term "oriental medicine".
my issue is that we are using the term "asian" to refer to only one of the continent's "races", of which there are as many as 6 depending on how you define them. "asian" seems to refer only to the "race" that includes chinese, japanese, korean, mongolian, tibetan, thai, burmese people, etc. "east asians". yet there are other "races" in asia such as pacific islanders ("southeast asians"), east indians ("south asians"), middle easterners, central asians, and even white people. and depending on how it's defined, the last 4 i just named can all be considered caucasian. yet they are never referred to as simply "asian" in north american english
This is news to me. I'm from Texas and I've seen the word written out like on signs/items/menus etc casually every once in a while. I had no idea that it was considered offensive. I thought it was just being more specific to geographical location as opposed to just saying "Asian". 🤷🏻♀️
Still a proper geographical term though.
If I say Asian you have n idea who I'm talking about, if I say Oriental you know exactly who I'm referring to. Asian in all of Europe refers to Indians and has for 100's of years. So it becomes very confusing when oriental people call themselves Asians as well. I do not see what is supposedly so outwardly racist about being called Oriental?
A few weeks ago I head an white old guy on the bus say "so I was talking to this oriental gal..." and felt like I blown back into the 1800s
Lol why?
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Except for a few pictures, it's interesting how they didn't include the Indian people when expounding upon the term "Asian". How long do you think the term Asian will be acceptable and how will it break into further subgroups? Asia is a massive continent with so many different cultures and people that it's difficult at best to understand which group of people anyone is referring to when using the term "Asian".
In Portuguese, we still use the word "oriental" a lot. Once a friend of mine was talking to me he found the common country name "Alemanha Oriental" ("East Germany") led him to think East Germans were Asian.
I am from India, which is a big part of Asia, but oddly enough we are not referred to as Asian Americans. I am not sure why only some people fall into that category. Just as I was never referred to as Oriental when the Orient covered such a large area. What is the political reasoning behind that?
There's none, these kinds of terms are arbitrary at best. We could go from general such as "Asian" or "Eurasian" to more specific such as Western, Eastern (Oriental) or Southern Asian, then Indian, then Punjabi. People will find a reason to be offended by any of the labels above regardless. Though the reason you won't be considered Oriental today is because the term changed the further Europeans went to the East. So in the continent of Asia, using Central Asia as the reference point, you would be from the South and I would be from the East (Orient). However there would be a time when India, or Turkey or the Middle East was considered the Orient, but as the Europeans discovered countries further East, what was considered Oriental also kept moving - language just evolves. The reason we use Europe as the reference point is because the word "Orient" itself is Latin in origin so the Europeans are the ones to use it.
My great grandma uses oriental when we were talking about asians or my aunt who is japanese I remember her using it 3 times I thought it was weird and maybe racist idk it sounded wrong. She is not racist but just uses it since that is the word of her time almost all her great grandkids are mixed.(not between only asian I'm Mexican and white same as my other cousin and I have two cousins who are half japanese two are full white and that is on my side her other great grandchild that isn't my first cousin is half asian)
It is so "gringo": blaming and punishing the words instead of changing their behaviour
Actually I use the term,"Occidental" routinely referring to things of European origin. Then again, I minored in history at university in the 1970's.
The name of the company Occidental Petroleum is one of the few places I had encountered the word Occidental. I do use the word Occidental occasionally, but how often do you need to refer to that part of the world? And most people say “the west” instead of “the Occident”.
I’m confused, why is Australia and new zealand considered occidental countries?;-; aren’t they to the east of Europe?
They are also west of Europe, when you think about it :P
do you ... do you not know how east & west work .. on a Globe...?
You do understand that Australia is Both to the East AND to the West of somewhere on the other side of the Round planet we're on right?
Because they are 'extensions' of the West.
I've known this for decades. but I'm sure many didn't.
Interesting, I definitely prefer differently abled to disabled I'd like to know more about Suvi-Tuuli Allan's perspective and why they prefer disabled
Because "differently abled" is patronizing and erases part of a disabled person's identity.
I haven’t heard of the term asian American being used
Why are none European ethnic groups the only ones given the brand of historical location and American examples "African American,latin American and now Asian American" the fact these titles still exists is proof racism is alive and well in the usa
Yes it is in the U.S. but also other places too not that we shouldn't fight our nation's racial issues.
@Grayson Collins lol maybe we should
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Grew up using and hearing both "negro" and "oriental". Never heard them used or assumed intentioned as derogatory in normal conversation. But okay.
Time for me to do some introspection on the true meaning of "social construct".
The only time I've ever heard the word 'occidental' used was by Alexander Siddig in reference to George Clooney's character in the film Syriana. It's the only reason I knew what the word meant, because I was curious and looked it up.
Ps I looove your channel :) keep up the great work o/o/
You say that Europe was the starting point like that's some sort of terrible thing. You know, for centuries China has called itself the Middle Kingdom (considered to be the center of the world), and everything else was seen in relation to that. In fact, to this very day it is illegal in China to print a map that does not have China at the very center of the world.
It makes absolutely no sense that you would take offense at a people living in one region, talking amongst themselves, referring to other parts of the world in relation to themselves; nobody here on the East Coast would be offended if I told them that California was in the west. This culture of critique needs to die.
By the way, the East considered the West to be "the other" too.
When did she ever take offense? She just simply stated a fact from that time period.
I’m korean and i urge all of you to use the term oriental. There is nothing wrong with the term at all. The idea that it’s offensive is a liberal fabrication
Honest question.. if everyone has the right to choose how they want to be addressed by, then doesn’t that mean it’s impossible to please everyone? I’m ok with using scientific terms to address people but it’d be nice if there were “nicknames” for them, sort of like water instead of H2O. But if I had to call it drinkable transparent liquid because someone finds water offensive, then how would you create a UA-cam video discussing water?
Except that the water isn't choosing the term to be addressed by. This only applies to people and how they and their characteristics are personally addressed as, it does not apply to objects or non-human animals or anything like that.
Silverizael that’s not what I meant. I’m using that as an analogy to say that it’s impossible to please everyone if we go by “you should address people the way they want to be addressed by”. That works in person, not when there’s a medium in between speaker and receiver
How could you not please everyone? If you use the term the person would like you to use, you would be pleasing them.
Silverizael yeah that’s what I’m saying, 1-to-1 you’re fine, group less so, and in a UA-cam video - and any other non-interactive medium - it’s impossible.
In a group, if you're referring to a person, you'd use the terms they already stated. As for online, you wouldn't know anything about the person that they hadn't already said, so why would you even use any descriptor terminology?
Thank you 🎉 excellent!! My self as of Mexican American heritage, born and raised in Chicago. I became flight attendant 25 years ago NY based. To my shock I was being referred to as Spanish and that fired me up! I considered my self Mexican heritage, U.S.A. of nationality and Latina not Spanish. Unfortunately in NY. There is Spanish Harlem ~ my naiveness thought, wow there’s a lot of Spaniards… little did I know even CT state had this rampage of classification of Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Latin a Americans as derogatory term to refer to them. I refused and still to this day if I see NY Stop & shop supermarkets HUGE offered ~ use this term I call them on it!! Blessing ❤ and thank you ~ Asian Americans as the rest of our planet are beautiful culturally diverse peoples. 🫶🏻🥰
I love you!!!!! ❤ Thanks for your research!!
Uruguay is known as the Oriental Republic because it's to the east (within South America).
Asian is way too vague. In an attempt to alleviate "offensive" terms, we usually wind up creating new terms that will become offensive. To me, labeling all the people of the 48 countries of Asia as simply Asian is almost akin to saying, "They're all the same".
I'm Hispanic. Puerto Rican to be exact. Somebody or some group decided for me that Latin X was a better term to describe who I am. In an effort to be less offensive? Miscalculation on whoever's part because I've never used that term and frankly, I don't like it. So that backfired.
I will continue to use the word oriental. Sorry. Not sorry. Never in my life, I'm 54, did I ever mean the word to mean anything other than a person who comes from the far east. Zero racist intentions on my part. Someone telling me I'm being racist is assigning an intent to me that I do not possess. The Japanese flag has a sun on it. The land of the sun. The sun rises in the far East and the sun is the earliest navigation tool. It's literally how sailors knew which way they were going. It's how sailors ORIENTED the ship! When I say Oriental, I literally mean the people from the far east. That's it. Nothing more. I will not bend my knee to the linguistic tyrants who are constantly telling me what I mean when nobody knows what I mean better than me.
It's really weird bc to me, as someone from Germany, "orient" actually only refers to the middle east/the Arab world. I don't think I've ever seen it used referring to anything East of India.
And yes, I have heard the word occident, but pretty much only when talking about medieval or even Roman times.
It's not offensive, it's just outdated.
This "oriental is an object, not a person" is just dumb. There are Persian rugs too and Iranians prefer to be called Persian.
It is a perfectly acceptable term outside the US. I would hear it all the time in London.
Perfectly acceptable for your race because it's def, not acceptable to us.
@@xlongyujax We use it in Latin America too. No big deal.
I'm not going to type it because it's a slur, but it's like that word that was used for Romani. That word was so ubiquitous, people used it as given names and all sorts of things. So yeah... that's also a messy term that we're going to have to extract from our language.
You know as a [former] immigrant to the United States, I've never personally minded the word oriental. Maybe because I'm Taiwanese, but the word literally means east. I mean, if we outlawed every common word that was taken over by hate groups, the english language would have a lot of things it can't express.
You are so right "cousin." I'm binging Origin of Everything right now.
Oriental simply means East. In the Philippines there is an island divided east and west, that is Negroes oriental and Negroes occidental ,simply East and West. The word Asian came from the Greek language. I am tired of people making something of nothing. There is an entire field of studies called, Oriental studies, (mostly referring to the Middle East). I remember when Colbert asked Eddie why the change to Asia, he said he didn't know and it didn't bother him. I am with Eddie on this, there is nothing negative in using the term Oriental. My wife does not offive at the term oriental, anymore then being called Asian. Those get upset with the term oriental need to get a life.
There's an Occidental Pub In Nanaimo BC. Which is on the west coast of Canada
If we have African-American and Asian-American, we should also have European-American.
We do, although it's worth noting that the term African-American should probably be considered racist as it's use downplays the fact that 1) not everybody in Africa is black, that's mostly sub-Saharan Africans that didn't descend from colonists and the fact that it downplays the fact that these people have dark to black skin.
Not to mention the descendents of colonists that have lived in African for generations and have no more meaningful connection with Europe that most Blacks in America do with Africa.
The civil rights leaders of the '50s and '60s were right to request the term black.
Yes. Especially because it implies that only white people are American. I mean not even actual native Americans can call themselves Americans.
I'm asian and I don't find orential racist
Even though occident is used far less in common conversation in general, there are places like near Barcelona the district of "vallès occidental" with multiple towns carrying the word in their names. To me it's very interesting that you describe oriental mostly in-use as a descripor for far-east (China, Japan, etc.) In german (my first language) I feel like we use it mostly to describe things/food/... from places closer to Europe (Iran, Iraque, Afghanistan, ...)
That’s fucked. I’m oriental. I didn’t know that word is bad. Lol
Where did the term Asian come from?
So why not just refer to everyone as Americans? Terms like Asian American or African American is still excluding in a way. Why do we add on to the term American when depicting someone race? I don’t call myself a white American and I never heard anyone refer themselves to that. To me a American is someone who lives and has citizenship in US. Is it just me or is America the only country that have these labels?
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Here in the UK Oriental isnt offensive it used to refer to people of East and South East Asian descent. Similarly Americans would say Desi and Middle easterners for South Asians and West Asians.
Growinf up in the UK Asian normall only meant South Asians like Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi ect. But it was used for British Arabs and Iranian for informal context like Naseem Hamed being refered to as a British Asian boxer but he was British Yemeni. To this day I still refer to Leventine Arabs, Gulf Arabs, Iranians and Afghans as Asians the same way I do with South Asians because I never realised people distingiush us in any way. I still accidently refer to Far Easterners are Oriental tho.