AS9 Huntsman SPG - Why Australia chose it.
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2023
- Why did Australia choose the Korean K9 derivative over other self-propelled gun options?
See related briefings:
AS21 Redback IFV - Why Australia chose it.: • AS21 Redback IFV - Why...
Australia's new armored force - What will it look like? Redbacks, Huntsmans, & Boxers.: • Australia's new armore...
Australia's New Fighting Force - the ADF after the Defence Strategic Review: • Australia's New Fighti...
I think everyone is missing he point of Australia choosing the S.Korean options. These systems will also come with full technical specifications and data transfer. Thus allowing Australian to also manufacture these systems in future while also now giving them very high quality systems in the mean time. Poland have done the same thing. This also helps strengthen the alliance between the two countries moving forward.
Yes, Unlike Swedish Submarines and Spanish Landing Ships
It's good because if we ever need more, we can just build more. We can't continue to purchase everything offshore. We need to be able to develop stuff here to so. I am happy we can now do that. Once we can start developing missiles in Australia, too, the stronger position our ADF will be.
Korea has been generous with customers for technology sharing and local manufacturing. They also have a huge number of K9 themselves which supports a healthy network of suppliers in case any part imports are required.
Germany on the other hand makes good hardware but buys and uses little of it for their own military.
It also shares an identical engine and tracks with the new Redback Infantry Fighting Vehicle family, and the same transmission as both the Redback and the M1A1/A2 Abrams Tank. The debate over the negligible differences between the Huntsman and PzH-2000 in combat effectiveness seems like a fool's errand when you begin to consider other factors like logistics and training, not to mention the unique armoured ammunition resupply vehicle. The Huntsman more than holds its own, even without considering those big advantages and is also likely cheaper, so the decision for me comes as a no brainer.
Great info, thanks!
Much appreciated.
Thanks for the comment. As I tried to highlight the automated ammo resupply capability is significant, IMHO. Also this decision was prior to the AS21 decision, which I think was influenced by commonality with at that time the already announced AS9 decision. All in all good decisions I feel.
No it doesn’t. The huntsman has mechanical tracks, while the Redback has rubber tracks. There is very little commonality between either vehicle.
The Pzh 2000 is built on the chasssis of the Leopard which would have given us an ability to produce a heavy tank in country as well
Korean K9 Thunder 155mm fleet of self-propelled howitzers and its ongoing improvement process makes this an easy choice based on costs, capabilities, support, interoperability, etc.
PS - Poland has also made the decision to buy and jointly produce future variants for itself and other NATO partners.
South Korea has one of the largest artillery forces in the world and it is a core focus of their defense strategy. Not surprising that they know a thing or two about how to make good self propelled artillery.
Hopefully the ADF is able to make additional purchases as future funds become available
Great video! If you're looking for future topics - I'd love to hear more about 16 REGT's new NASAMS capability and the improvements it has on the old RBS-70.
Yes, already on the list. Good idea.
Very useful analysis, thanks!
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Thanks for that informative analysis.
Much appreciated.
Thx for the update mate!
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Light listening to your content it is very interesting about the Australian Armed Forces this video was quite interesting thank you for doing it keep the good work up
Thank you, much appreciated.
I'm really glad Australia is going ahead with this how long since we have had an SPG, the Yeramba. Anyway over the PzH 2000 I think the Huntsman will be way more easy to operate and maintain. The PzH 2000 had done well in Ukraine but maintaince I think has been an issue. Overall the AS10 support vechile is also great in a chemical, Biological or nuclear envoirnment as they can reload the AS9 Huntsman under armor.
This was an important capability gap within the Australian Army.
I believe all PzH 2000 sent to Ukraine were were unserviceable within a few months in Ukraine requireing them to be sent back to Germany for repairs but I could be misinformed.
Yes, the Huntsman is likely to be more reliable and require less maintenance than the 2000.
@@corporalpunishment1133nothing like whataboutery and I heard this or that 🙄
That is absolute nonsense. In the Ukraine, the PZH2000 is used excessively and therefore inevitably requires a great deal of maintenance, which mainly affects the shot tubes, which are used FAR beyond the originally intended number of rounds. This would be no different with the Korean cucumber, as a barrel is simply worn out after a certain number of shots; the more precise the gun is, the faster the barrel is worn out. If the Korean barrel could fire more often, then it wouldn't be as accurate - otherwise it's the same. The Russian slingshots only have longer maintenance intervals because they don't hit anything anyway and the Orks shoot them until the barrels burst. In certain cases it is necessary to send the vehicles all the way back to Germany - that's true so far - but this is mainly due to the Poles and their outrageous demands regarding maintenance costs. To be honest, I wondered whether the Poles really want to help the Ukrainians or whether the whole thing is just a pretext. But perhaps they could offer lower maintenance costs for a Korean vehicle than for a vehicle from their hated neighbors...@@FairladyS130
Informative and succinct. Thanks.
Watching those muzzle breaks do their job is amazing.
What vehicles will the Funnel Web and Xmas Spiders be?
Good choice.
1st off awesome vid - Thank You!!! 2nd cancelling the second phase of the order may have been a mistake - the war in Ukraine is showing that mobility is a key factor in the survival of artillery units on the modern battlefield - and yes I know the Army is getting HIMARS as well - but at the end of the day artillery shells are far cheaper and easier to manufacture than HIMARS rockets.
Thanks, much appreciated. As soon as doubt started over additional AS21 Redback IFVs, it was likely that the second order of AS9s would be in doubt.
@@Strategy_Analysisthankfully Hanwha building factories here, may get further orders from government in the future, similar to bushmaster.
While we need some 155mm with tracks, I see half of the motorised mobility could have been more highly noble wheeled version. The Swedes or French version seem good. The UK has adopted a wheeled version
Wheeled 155's would be great, they have the range to shoot from a distance and the speed and mobility to avoid counter battery fire.
Excellent choice for ADF. The ADF needed more artillery. Hope Australia will be able to manufacture a main battle tank in the future also. Instead of importing them from overseas.
If Australia can manufacture majority of our military eqwipment here in Australia it would give Australia a capability to be able to manufacture ourselves it will lower the risk for ADF of being stranded during a conflict of getting parts or in need of more equipment.
All Australia needs now is to get our warship manufacture industry going develop our artillery and missile mutants weponry in Australia, increase our oil reserves. And majority of ADF worries would be fixed when it comes to sustainability and availability off eqwipment
Your audio is fine mate 👍
Thanks, Mate. Appreciated.
Interested in this when they are all delivered because they we can assess producing more of them at a cheaper rate, I like how it's a strategy to split the overall military system into 15 division strategy of two AS9 an one AS10 per 1/15th that said I think the decision could be the AS10 supply option
Thanks
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Holly Hell! "Finally" indeed! I was "Starlight" 'A' Fd Bty last effing century and SP's were overdue then!
I'm keen to hear your thoughts on the impact of the DSR on the combat brigades. I have watched your previous briefing on this topic and note that there have been a number of changes since that time.
Yes, one is coming. Just need a little more information before I post it. I think it will be significant.
Awesome video, always glad to see. I would like to recommend content but I suspect I'd only be adding to the list.
On AS9, it would be my personal preference to see these replace the M777 fully. Even for amphibious operations, they represent something that takes up a smaller footprint and which can actually move/protect its crew meaningfully. The domestic production of these vehicles, possibly including the barrels, may also be a helpful addition owing to lessons from Ukraine.
Of course, finance and people are tight - so the evident solution is to have the single regimwnt form the artillery unit of 3 Brigade, as the new armoured brigade.
As always, appreciate the content and look forward tl seeing tour channel grow.
Thank you, much appreciated. A thoughtful comment. Good point about the footprint of a SPG. Hopefully, the channel continues to grow.
The AS9 should not replace the M777 fully as it lacks the the operational flexibility specially if in the Indo-Pac. You cant move an AS9 by helicopter to firing locations deep in the jungle or mountainous terrain.
@@hellbreaksloose5536 The AS9 will only replace the M777 in one Brigade. The M777s will remain in the other Brigades.
@@hellbreaksloose5536 to be honest I find such tactics to lack viability. We are talking about putting a gun in an area where it will struggle to be supplied, where it cannot move after firing, and which now requires a helicopter for its effective survival.
Artillery requires a lot of ammo, so ideally you want to place it in an area with at least a trail leading into the area so trucks can resupply. Also, helicopters (Chinooks especially) require a large LZ to put these guns down, which may limit the number of areas it can deploy. Poor weather would also prevent the helicopter from supporting the gun.
The M777 was made for a different war. The Ukrainians have made it work, bless them, but the reality is counter-battery fire will maim the operators and leave the rest of the force unsupported, and helicopter deployment realistically solves very little. Therefore, I would prefer to see the AS9 replace the M777.
That said, the decision (as of now) is for only one regiment worth of AS9. So we have to make do.
@@ArisenfromDogma I understand your reasoning but you also have to look at the terrain where the ADF might possibly fight. SPHs are more viable in flat open terrain, outside of the Aussie Outback the Indo-Pac lacks such a terrain feature. You also have to look at operational mobility which will mostly by air ( 1 M777 and ammo in a C-130 or 4 M777 and ammo in a C-17, while the AS9 and AS10 can only fit one of each in a C-17).
As much better on paper SPHs are to towed artillery the operational environments the ADF sees its self in possible conflicts are such that replacing the M777 with the AS9 one per one will degrade its fires element due to the lack of operational mobility and terrain flexibility a SPH has.
It is clear to me (and possibly many) that the ADF requieres a gun based artillery system other wise I would replace both the M777 and AS9 with rocket/missile systems.
261 liked mate and great briefing.
Thanks, much appreciated.
The resupply is a great feature I would like to see a move towards better range ammunition and perhaps anti drone technology being incorporated
Agree a great feature.
what I like on that system is the supply vehicle, to me the biggest benefit
Agree this is significant. Not as "sexy" as the SPG itself, but very important.
@@Strategy_Analysis well if your choice is the PzH2000 or the K9 than is the supply vehicle
It has already saved lives in combat. During an artillery duel with North Korea.
Frankly the purchasing of the Huntsman is an absolute disgrace, the basic vehicle is the K-9, seriously how is it possible to procure an Australian vehicle based on the K-9 and not call it the Dingo?
I demand a Royal Commission into this travesty!
Germany already has an armoured truck family called Dingo, based on the UNIMOG. However the only dingo' s in Germany are found in books and perhaps in the zoo.
Could you please look at the possibility of the Canberra Class being drone carriers?
Yes, when I get to doing Australia's amphibious capabilities.
Given the US is abandoning the SEP3V modernisation plan. If we have to acquire another MBT then I guess the options would be in the future could be the K3 130mm tank from South Korea, KF-51 Panther or in a modified form or wait for the US Abrams replacement.
M1E3 Abrams will likely be ready for production first.
Good luck with them.
Think you could do a vid on the new abrams and why we chose them rather than waiting for the late 2020s for the abrams replacement?
An interesting idea, especially as the U.S. has cancelled the SEPv4 upgrade, suggesting a new MBT is not that far away.
M1A2 SEPv3 can use existing hulls in storage to save acquisition costs. M1E3 probably will require new hulls because of the extensive changes.
A solid and proven choice for Australia, I believe the K9 is also in the running for the UK's AS-90 replacement.
It'll be interesting to see whether the British Army decides to go for a wheeled or tracked platform for their next SPG, I'd be curious to know what the Ukrainian's think of the wheeled Vs tracked debate and which they prefer.
Australia is rapidly becoming a strategically important location to me personally. Should it fall i would lose critical access to news sources about miscellaneous military events around the world, you, perun, and to a limited event sir swag with his teams news stuff.
Thank you.
I'd like to see a discussion of what the army envisions these things doing. With only 30 of them, even assuming the towed howitzers are kept, how much of the country can be covered by
Good question. I'll be covering this when more information comes out regarding the Army's restructure.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of tracked vs wheeled self propelled artillery ? Which is more appropriate for Australia ?
A good question, depends on the area of operations, and how you plan to get the vehicles there. Tracked are better over bad terrain, but traditionally heavier.
@@Strategy_Analysis the reason I asked is because of this ua-cam.com/video/d8x8ITwd4Vg/v-deo.htmlsi=1PI3-vjdkMQC6dMA video I saw of the Archer. Wheeled artillery seems to be doing well in Ukraine.
Tracked tends to have better crew protection but needs to be loaded onto trailers for long distance travel. They also tend to cost more.
I want to see in weapon market k-9vsM1299.
Will be interesting to see if it goes into service. At 58 calibres its a very long barrel.
We had money left over in ADF budget..could have used that to spend on more kit??
It should go to the RAN and RAAF.
@Burkutace27 I agree..maybe up gun our newer ships and by some more assets...
It is interesting that both the AS9, and AS21 are named after spiders. Was the naming made by Australian officials, or by the manufacturer?
What sort of air conditioner does it have?
To be frank, the Australian Army is to buy 9 (as in one less than 10).
I doesn't sound like this really matters that much.
finland bought 96. and finland is the population size of sydney.
its funny to think about how every 5million+ city could theoretically be as armed as finland.
with 1/5 of its population as trained reserve like they have.
@@RedmanticoreFinland's taxes are far higher than ours, I'm happy to pay more, are you?
I think it resembles an Emu more than a Huntsman but maybe that's just me 😂
Nothing surprises me of the ever changing downscaling of Military equipment purchases by the Australian military. When and if a breakout of hostilities happens between China and the US we will be hopelessy under armed to defend even the local pub. Our soldiers are some of the best trained and capable in the world but are often let down by their commanding officers and Governments of the day.
Having experience with the ADF (Navy, Army, Air Force), and with other countries, the ADF are well trained.
The Army does have over 59 generals so we kick arse when it comes to the amount of Brass😊
@@Strategy_Analysis It does not matter when you do not have enough systems to defend anything beyond sydney and Canberra . Attrition to drones and battle and wear add up.
Can you please do a clip on Australia's drone capability? Do we have offensive drones. We have seen how they have changed warfare in Ukraine. There are Australian companies developing offensive drones but the ADF does not seem to be buying them.
I am looking at doing a drone and anti-drone capability briefing.
That would be very interesting. Thank you. Your briefings are very good. @@Strategy_Analysis
judging by the effectiveness of SPG in the Ukraine conflict especially against towed artillery I would question the ability of those who did the Gov's strategic defense review when the recommended not taking up the option for the extra purchase of the K9's
Because labour always fucks the army over
Probably because amy future fight for Australia, as with the last one, will be an air and naval war, so it makes perfect sense they get the majority of the funding.
Make no mistake; if it ever gets to the point the PLAN can land troops here in any significant numbers, then we've lost well before that point.
@@Burkutace27 like the last one it hopefully won't be fought on our soil thus why we need a strong well equipped army as well
Everyone always says it will be decided in the sea and the air, look at Ukraine.
And besides all that they have sent the army backwards they have reduced 1 Bde to 1 infantry battalion while 3 has 3 and the armour and aviation he should go to jail
@@ianoloughlin6670 Look at Ukraine?
Alright, which large, hostile power with a big sledge-hammer army do we share a land boarder with? Because the last time I checked, we're an island nation.
Big armies cannot threaten us unless the hostile power in question can achieve naval and air supremacy in their landing areas, at a minimum.
But never mind an invasion. If can achieve that supremacy, you have the option to interdict trade until the country taps out.
Ukraine has lessons for the ADF, sure, but they'd be fools to prepare to fight exactly that kind of war.
we need about 100 of them
So many people say this, but are they prepared to put their money where their mouth is and pay higher taxes?
@@Smokeyr67 no country deserves to exist it has to fight to exist. we are one of the most highest tax rates on earth. Australia was told buy china not to have a big defense force so we don't. don't say this is not true look it up
@@DavidOlver David, firstly our taxation is low compared to most OECD type nations (3% below average, 6th lowest out of 38 countries) so your claim is demonstrably wrong. Look it up.
Secondly, China can spruke whatever they want, it's their right, and it's our right to continue ignoring them, as we are doing.
If you want a bigger Defence Force, pay an extra 3% of your gross income (it's easy to do, especially if. You're a PAYE wage earner), lobby your local member or even join a political party and make your voice heard.
In essence, put your money where your mouth is.
@@Smokeyr67 i will look it up. look at our new patrol boats they have no weapons that matter, that proves my point on China
@@Smokeyr67 On average, Aussies were slapped with 23.2 per cent tax on their wages, well above the average of 14.9 per cent across all 38 OECD nations. In comparison, Japan’s citizens were taxed at a rate of 7.8 per cent, Britain’s rate was 14.3 per cent, the US took out 17.2 per cent from salaries, while New Zealand came in at 19.4 per cent.
How many are we acquiring,mate
30 of the SPGs and 15 armoured resupply vehicles.
The chances are we’re only use it against asymmetric adversaries so it’s not like any small performance difference with the German unit will be of any consequence.
Relying on EU based supply chain could put Australia at risk with different priorities. Australia and Korea are more aligned with regional defence
The Australian government has a long history of cutting back on defense spending, hopefully not to out detriment.
All Governments over promise and under deliver, but that's the fault of the public. We need to stop voting for the party who offers the best tax cuts, and pressure our local members into providing the best solutions for the nation, even if those solutions are politically unpopular. Ultimately it's up to we voters to engage with our local members, express our views and hold them accountable.
I know this isn’t the right thread but we need a larger army reserve.
If not national service .
As a former Soldier you can forget National Service, it's bad enough when you have 1 member in a section who doesn't want to be there let alone half of them. Retention rates are the issue for both the ARA and ARES and the best way (IMO) is to increase the benefits to serving members (i.e. up the "employer contribution" to a members Super, provide better health insurance to dependants, far better mental health services to both serving and retired members and greater family support) . Pay is an issue, higher pay would be great, but very expensive for the budget, whereas benefits such as superannuation and health are of benefit to the economy in the mid to long term.
why not a wheeled version that can get itself to its destination and not hindered by bridges Railways or trucks to get them there
Wheeled versions were considered in the initial program, but not in this latest one. Probably not because they need it to be able to go where the tanks go.
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The decision to reduce the amount of Huntsman SPG was a stupid, the Ukraine war has shown that static artillery such as the M777 is particularly vulnerable to counterbattery and is obsolete on the modern battlefield, we should reduce the M777’s and keep them for reserve and replace them with mobile platforms.
We don't share a land boarder with a potentially hostile power. We have the chance to keep enemy troops off our soil, but only with a strong Air force and Navy.
The main advantages of towed artillery are greater availability by separating the weapon from the transport vehicle, air mobility, and cost.
So that image of the AS10 resupplying the AS9, is anyone seeing what I'm seeing or has the internet ruined my mind? On the one hand resupply without the crew having the leave the vehicle seems like an excellent idea. But that ummm, docking method looks ripe for certain types of jokes.
Australia 🦘 🌏 just had to name it after a 🕷️🕸️
Well they are nasty.
Embarrassing we don't have SPA and it's nearly 2024. These are good but I was thinking wheeled SPA as well for quicker deployment like the French have.
Wheeled self-propelled guns?
Google wheeled self propelled artillery images. Lots of countries use it and it would be quicker to deploy in certain circumstances. We could have it on the back of the new MAN trucks along with tracked SPA as well. Many countries operate wheeled SPA. It could drive to a training area without needing a low loader to get it there. @@Strategy_Analysis
we have no money left spent on 300 Billion dollars on Submarines
Well... 2 regiments are better than none.
Why would you only buy 30 units? Should build 300 keep Australian workers in jobs.
Just in case we get invaded from the middle of australia.
if you get too left or too right uprising: some BLAM BLAM BLAM will get them change their mind and be enthusiastically voting for democracy again.
Not everyone in Australia lives on the coast. And most of our military base are in the inland areas
If the German PzH is made like MBenz , Audi ,Bmw plastik cars😂 , it is a no brainer to buy the Korean toys.
Hi. First time I see one of your videos. The sound is fine for me. What I dont like is the repeating and repeating videoclips. I think the same clips was shown 3-5 times, and I got bored, and annoyed. If you dont have more videoclips to fill in, then do more research, or make the video shorter. Good luck with your channel.
Appreciate the feedback.
💔 'promo sm'
I was working on bids to provide this capability back in 2005, before the Gillard government cancelled the project.
This capability is long, long overdue.
It just goes to show what a mess the Canberra acquisition process is and how uninterested Labor is in national security.
And then Labor stepped in and halved the order, whilst giving hundreds of millions upon hundreds of millions of our tax payer funds to Island Nations and even pledged over $600M to the NRL for a PNG team. Nothing like priorities!
Maybe they know what they are doing and order the K9A3 unmanned SPH to pair up with the AS9 in the 2030s?
If we don’t have self propelled air defence to travel alongside, what’s the point.
Just see Russia and UKraIne at the moment.
Absolutely. I'll be covering that soon.
@@Strategy_Analysis look forward to it, mate
Australia is a Country surrounded by water, why spend $$$ on land based systems when they should be improving the navy air force and long range missiles and radars???
In case we need to support expeditionary action I guess.
Buy a dozen or so of A10 warthogs before the Yanks scrap them
Why would we want to burden the RAAF's limited time and manpower on a platform that will be next to useless in an Indo Pacific war?
@@Burkutace27 They could carry a dozen decoy missiles to flood the skies of any enemy fleet or base we need to attack.
@@VainerCactus0 They'll be blotted from the sky by PL15s and 17s before they'd have the chance.
It cannot be referred to as SELF propelled gun.
Must be now called a non binary explosive delivering mechanical vechile.
Should look great in the new ADF LBQTWhatever camo paint job.
It's a political decision, most time it's more or less open corruption. The PzH 2000 is a groundbreaking and innovative design like the gepard. The PzH 2000 was only build, because the project before got out hand and they had to make a cut. Like most good project, they than got more people from the outside involved than before and got really better results. The phenomenal part is, that the pzh 2000 project didn't go over budget. It isn't about that the K9 isn't a good design and well made, it is that the PzH 2000 is the better design to make the job done aka has the better formfactor. When you make a project over compatible to other projects like the IFV or MBT you will make inferior choices. They had to make the PzH 2000 longer and change motor position to the leo to get the project under control. So Australia make a good choice, but the inferior choice from it's potential.
i dont trust germany to provide. they had their hiccups in supporting when the war in east europe started. if the gas/oil pipes from Germany to the invader would be still working, still would have.
maybe if germany offers pzh2000 to be made for free with license like the koreans offered, losing their profits, but germany are tight about their licenses and didn't want any of "its" equipment to be sent against russia at first.
even finland & norway & estonia & poland rather chose south korea, who is from another side of the world, as a provider than their neighbor Germany, for security-providing reasons, that tells something. its likely AfD wins in Germanys elections and their party tries to put germany closer to russia yet again.
south korea wont suddenly choose pro china or russia party.
also germany neglected its defense spending and its industry is losing a momentum a bit too so.
Surprised you did not mention Ukraine as a user of the system. They have over 60 KRABS in daily use.Hope that isn't the pro Russia bias that infests many on the right in aus and the west? Great vid otherwise. Pity we are not ordering four times the amount at least. Recent US weakness has shown many they cannot rely on them to come help if needed and self reliance is the best path.
Yes Ukraine is using the Krab. For the purpose of the briefing I didn't think it was relevant. The Krab was not a candidate for the Australian project. I mentioned it for completeness as it is a derivative of the K9.
@@Strategy_Analysis Noted. Might have been useful to reference the war with the plethora of spg's that the Ukraine has and their use etc. A vid on the Bushmaster and its experience over there would be good content. Keep it up.
why 30? its literally pointless..
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