Heaven forbid we get characters that surpass the main character. Chloe becomes seemingly more complex with her redemption? Nah she was evil all along. Adrien / Chat is the favorite for some fans? Lets give Rena Rouge more screentime with Ladybug
I mean, season 5 might have the big reveal right? There's a lot with Chat there since Hawk daddy is Chat's father. There will be a lot of screen time for Chat there. Rn might as well focus on Ladybug. I'm sure Chat will get the screen time he deserves.
I really didn't like Chloe in the earlier seasons, but once she started getting her character development she really grew on me. Then she just...reverted back to her old ways because Thomas says she's evil. Such wasted potential right there
Screw zoey she's boring and mellowed out like cmon give up the spice that chloe gave us and make it turn into a nice complementing flavor instead of bland zoey flavor
I believe season 2 had a different main writer, which is why Chloe got so much spotlight and development. That's only what I heard though, i dunno if it's really true.
Even if it was true, the problem is still there, because Chloé did not realize actually that she was an ass, she thought that her problem was "being useless" and that could fixed with a superpower. A bad misunderstanding, that fans forget
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT Actually, no. You're wrong. She did realize that she was being mean to everyone, she even said in the episode "Origins Part 2" from season 1 when Stone Heart yeeted her in an attempt to kill her “Please, help me! I promise I'll be *nice to everyone* and-” she gets cut short by Ladybug saving her but you can clearly hear her say that. She *knows* that her being rude to others is the problem here, so I think it's safe to say that what you said is not correct.
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT Yeah, well...that was before her redemption arc began so it doesn't really count, she wasn't going to change then. It was in season 1 and things only got started in season 2.
This Show is such a Mess. Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge; some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done, but they were not brave enough. Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless. Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone. They need to understand they made a Mess because of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge; heck, some of the Authors even have weird Bias against Blondes, apparently.
In my opinion Chloe is the only character in this show that feels human the only person who's interesting to watch the only person that is affected by there surroundings the only one who really developed or changed and she is honestly my favorite character but seriously fuck the season 3 finale and all colors scenes so far in season 4 because I swear to God Thomas Astruc just made her into the worst person possible just to flip all of us who like her the middle finger
@@komorebi3555 yeah, at least Luka could have stayed as a blank piece of paper meant to be Marinette second choice for love tension only, nothing more nothing less, i think i would prefer that than what they did to him and kagami in the first two ep of s4. Also Chloé being worse than in S1 is wow
@@-thewanderer-840 Don't we all, that and read fan fiction where Chloe wasn't written by Astruc. I have stopped watching as well but I'll watch the occasional one if I'm in need of something you laugh at. Cause it's so stupid it's funny.
Plus if you’re writing a show, you might get biased here or there. There’s really no escaping bias because everyone has their limits but RUINING AN ENTIRE GODDAMN CHARACTER JUST BECAUSE OF BIAS IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF TAKING IT TOO FAR. YOU CAN DEFINITELY PREVENT IT BECAUSE THE CHARACTER MADE IT THAT FAR. THAT CHANGED WAY TOO MUCH TO THE POINT WHERE THE BIAS WAS SO OBVIOUS.
Thomas wants to teach kids that unless you're perfect out of the womb like Creepynette, you will always be an irredeemable evil brat. God I can't stand him at this point lol rip
Honestly Marinette is arguably worse than Chloe. She has committed several crimes and is a totally creepy stalker. Chloe may be a bit of a bully,but I don't recall her committing any crimes at least from what I remember
@@skydragonslayer9820 Acording to her villan wiki she has committed Treason Abuse Psychological abuse Theft Destruction Blackmail Incrimination Aiding criminal activity Terrorism Conspiracy Brainwashing Murder (indirectly) Attempted murder Public endangerment Corruption
I had the exact same idea! Chloe Bourgeois is interesting enough to star in her own show! "Miraculous Ladybug" should have a spin-off series with Chloe as the main character!
I know right. It's astounding that they think Chloe can't be redeemed because Prince Zuko (the character you're referencing) literally had the same problem as Chloe (he was a nice guy at first, his father neglected him and then **SPOILERS for ATLA**). But Zuko was eventually redeemed and became one of the best (if not the best) character from the show.
Gotta love how a grown ass man who basically abandoned his kids can get redemption but a 14 year old girl who was neglected can't (yeah I know he isn't technically a villain)
Imagine hating a character that *you* created who's only like a 13 year old girl. That said I stopped watching the moment when Chloe's development got shattered (i think it was S2 or S3) and just ignore the later seasons ever happened. Miraculous Fanfiction became my coping mechanism for like 4 months after that
People hate Chloe a 14 year old girl but they also hate Lila who is also 14 and people think she’s irredeemable for some reason just for lying a lot… that’s so weird to me.
@@corimoon3360 yeah, i think even lila herself could redeem, she clearly is a compulsive liar, and unlike everyone thinks compulsive liars are, they lie not because they like to but because they can't NOT lie by the point they reached, compulsive lying is an extremely self destructive action
It’s called compulsive lying.They can’t keep themselves from lying.It’s a compulsion.Lila could learn how to stop lying,and become redeemable but Thomas Astruc is douchebag so that’s bound to never happen
Chloe was my favorite character for season 2 and MOST of season 3, so I agree with you 100%. At the same time I feel like you could’ve included the “Why don’t you love me mom” scene as well as her being the first character to fight off an akuma because those are the two most influential moments of her redemption arc IMO.
@@eyelove_owlcity This Show is such a Mess. Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge; some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done, but they were not brave enough. Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless. Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone. They need to understand they made a Mess because of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge; heck, some of the Authors even have weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF? Start over.
@@eyelove_owlcity This Show is such a Mess. Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge; some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done, but they were not brave enough. Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless. Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone. They need to understand they made a Mess because of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge; heck, some of the Authors even have weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF? Start over.
This isn't mine but I totally agree with it... Absolutely. They made her go to Hawkmoth’s side to show that she’s evil again, but that doesn’t make sense for her at all. (Sorry, got carried away, TL;DR at the end). Say what you will about Chloe, but she has never tried to hurt people like Hawkmoth does. True, she’s a bully, and she hits people where it hurts psychologically, but she’s never been interested in intentionally putting anyone in harm’s way or ruling over Paris or anything Hawkmoth’s doing. She’s a bitch, but she’s not a psychopath. If anything, Hawkmoth has been Chloe’s enemy way more than he’s been her ally, because he’s gone after the very few people she cares about several times (including in Loveater). We’ve seen repeatedly that what Chloe really wants is to be loved and recognized as a hero like Ladybug is; that’s why she was doing good things. Who on Earth is gonna love her if she allies herself with the supervillain terrorizing Paris? Even if she reasons that Ladybug’s enemies are her friends, I still don’t really buy Chloe just going over to Hawkmoth. However, when Ladybug fails her and her trust in her idol is shattered, I do buy Chloe’s anger at Ladybug, and I buy her going back to her horrible behavior. And I also buy her being so full of herself that she believes herself capable of double-crossing Hawkmoth, stealing the Bee Miraculous, and trying to be a hero on her own, because she’s the only one who knows how to do things right and everyone else is an utter idiot (in fairness to her, she wouldn’t be completely mistaken on that point). That fits her character and her arc so much better, and will eventually put her at odds with the reason why her redemption up to this point hasn’t really been valid: she’s doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Being Queen Bee, or being nice, isn’t something you do because you want to be praised; it’s something you do because it’s the right thing to do, simple as that. Reverting her to an archetypical mean girl like this just puts us back in square one, and really that’s why people are annoyed. Because there’s no moving forward now without retreading the path we’ve already tread, and we’ve seen that that hasn’t led anywhere. But having her take her own path would’ve been much more unique, and it would’ve allowed her the chance to face her mistakes up to this point and set things right. It also would’ve shaken up the status quo of the show a little, which after three seasons is desperately needed, and could’ve even been a foil to Marinette’s hesitation and self doubt during the episode, and probably during the next season, where we’ll (hopefully, based on the final scene) see Marinette and Adrien move past their crushes and turn to look at themselves to improve. TL;DR: Chloe should’ve played Hawkmoth, taken the Bee Miraculous and tried to take him down with it, to prove Ladybug wrong, and to prove to everyone that she’s better than Ladybug. That’s the downfall that would’ve fit her current path, and would’ve been more interesting to watch.
oh I would have loved if they have done that. Most interesting than her being manipulated by the villain and went back to the point she was before she became a hero.
I was 100% sure Chloe gonna betray hawk moth in season 3 finale and I was so hyped up to see it happen😃 Then I saw the the whole episode……🤡 I feel betrayed
@@derive8251 He is not going to redeem Chloe because he hates her more than anything. Like, does anyone else think that it's a bit weird that a middle aged man is spreading hate on social media about Chloe? Have you seen his tweets? That guy hates her more than anything, and he clearly has his problems if he needs to hate on a fictional character like that
@@Jellygirl313 what bases are there for a redemption? Chloé cries in Malediktator "I AM. USELESS" and thinks that a Miraculous is owed and fixes this. NO!!! the point is that she is ARROGANT AND DISHONEST and you cannot play the hero if you keep all of this in daily life, from Animaestro to Felix and Miraculer too. You cannot blame Astruc about Chloé if this is the point. You can blame him for not putting a character to spit all of this and to punish her. If you are a bully you must stop bullying and must treat people like you would like people to treat you
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT Bruh. What they are saying is that for most of season 3 Chloe has been getting development all the way until the Finale where all of her development goes to waste. Plus bringing up points from season 1 doesn’t help your claim.
So fun fact: Chloe is based off a girl who bullied Thomas Astruc in school. Plus Astruc wasn’t there was season 2 was being written. Which gave the writers a chance to give Chloe a redemption arc. However, when Astruc returned for season 3 he quickly began undoing that arc and character growth. Knowing all that plus how Astruc says how Chloe is a bad, irredeemable person makes me believe there is some unresolved trauma there.
Ohh yes but there's more: Sabine was the name of his ex who was chinese and he named Marinette's dad Thomas after himself. The Dupain Cheng family is basically his self insert fantasy scenario where he is still together with his ex and had a daughter together. Hence why he adored Marinette so much and will excuse her creepy behaviors, that's HIS fantasy daughter. Call this a rumor or whatever but I heard it from a comment section in some other videos. But I wouldn't be so surprised if it was true.
@@helpme424 she was comparing chloe with lila , not lila with marinette And Lila doesn't just lie , she is a monster , saying this cuz my best friend was like Lila , she broke my heart so fucking bad Lila makes people like her by lying ,and changing her whole personallity when people know about the real her they will get their heart broken But cuz she is lying that much , she must have a sad backstory too
Chloé's redemption was ruined. Now, I don't like Chloé. She's far from my favorite character, and the hate she gets isn't completely undeserved. HOWEVER, she certainly didn't deserve to have an amazing redemption set up only for Miracle Queen to ruin everything, and Thomas shouldn't be having a passion for hating a fictional character he, along with the rest of the writers, created. Here is an IDEAL redemption for Chloé (in my opinion): Pre-Origins - Chloé, deep down, doesn't SEEM to have originally been a brat. But thanks to Audrey, "you're only exceptional because of me" Bourgeois, she felt the only way to cope was being a jerk to everyone. - She wants her mother to believe she's exceptional too, so she ends up becoming the bully we know her to be. Season One: - In the first half of the season, she's being cruel like before. But she encounters a roadblock when Adrien, one of the only people whose opinion she cared about up to that point, calls her out. Then, let's say Chloé accidentally makes a fight go longer than it should, because she's being a jerk. After the fight, Ladybug tells her off, and after hearing her crush AND her idol tell her off for being cruel, Chloé decides to try and change. Season Two: - Chloé is trying to become a better person, but not very successfully. She genuinely wants to change, if only for Adrien and Ladybug to like her again at this point in the show, but it's proving harder than expected for her. Chloé is upset that she can't seem to get the hang of being a good person ever since her mother's neglect, and she gets akumatized. After Ladybug saves her, Chloé directly apologizes to Ladybug for letting her emotions take the better of her. Ladybug decides to give her a chance, and apologizes for her mistakes as well. Later in the season, Chloé accidentally finds the Bee Miraculous. She wants to keep it for herself, but there's an akuma fight going on. She decides to be selfish and keep it, but when she realizes Ladybug and Cat Noir might need some additional help, she activates the Bee Miraculous for the first time, and with Ladybug and Cat Noir the villain is successfully defeated. Naturally, people are suspicious that Queen Bee suddenly found her Miraculous, but Chloé has a moment and refuses to give it back. Everyone's surprised and upset, and when she gets home, she's angry and goes inside, without detransforming, and says to a shocked Audrey, "Am I still only exceptional because of you, Mother?" Later in the season, Ladybug has a heartfelt talk with Queen Bee to try and get her to return the Miraculous, and Chloé finally admits she's only trying to be helpful.. Only trying to become who she wants to be. Then, without a second thought, she detransforms and returns the Miraculous. Ladybug's surprised to see Chloé being this way, but she gives her a chance and tells her that for her honesty, she might get it back, although it's unlikely, seeing as Audrey was a snitch and told everyone who Queen Bee was. Chloé doesn't care, she's just happy that her idol doesn't hate her for hee past mistakes. On heroes day, she helps the team defeat the supervillains. Season Three: - Ever since Ladybug's reassurance, Chloé's started to behave more kindly in class, and it's noticable. There's only one problem: Ladybug isn't sure she can give the Bee Miraculous back to Chloé, since Hawkmoth knows who she is. Chloé is worried Ladybug doesn't trust her anymore, even when she tried her hardest, but when Hawkmoth tries to akumatize her, she straight up says no. Even if she doesn't know if Ladybug trusts her, she wants to do the right thing for her, for Paris. (Something that bothers me is they take the time to write Chloé rejecting Hawkmoth, which nobody has ever done before, and STILL mess up her character. CAT/CHAT NOIR couldn't do it, and his name is in the TITLE SCREEN.) Cue Sabrina getting akumatized. Chloé is surprised when the Bee Miraculous is offered to her, even after all her mistakes, and she asks out loud if she truly deserves it. Ladybug assures her she does, and Queen Bee returns. With her help, they defeat Miraculer. Then Ladybug gives her the news: she'll be in danger if she becomes Queen Bee ever again. Chloé is crushed, since she thinks all her hard work to become a better person was for nothing, but she accepts Ladybug's words and returns the Miraculous. For the rest of the season, Chloé is mostly kept in the dark, overshadowed by other conflicts. We see a few scenes of her brooding over her predicament, and yet we also see a few scenes of her being a decent person, intended to give the effect of wondering what she's really up to and if her "acceptance" of being retired from superhero work is really the whole story. Then comes the finale. If you've ever heard the song "Queen of Mean" then think of that. We learn that this entire time, Chloé hasn't accepted it as gracefully as she claims to have, and she says, "If nobody thinks I'm important, even when I try my very best, then what do I have to lose by giving in, by accepting my fate?" This entire time, she's been on the verge of breaking down and letting an akuma take her over. Her parents are neglectful. She hs few friends, even with her attitude change, and the one thing that made her feel like she could be a good person after all was stripped away from her. She KNOWS it's selfish to want the Miraculous back, even though she knows the dangers, and she feels like she failed Ladybug. She finally gives in, and she gets akumatized into Miracle Queen. When Ladybug and Cat Noir defeat her, she tells them: "I know you're disappointed. I've rejected Hawkmoth before, you know. Remember Miraculer? That akuma was originally meant for me. To think I haven't allowed him to akumatize me, only to let this happen. I had nothing left to lose." She gave Ladybug a sad smile. "Tell Pollen I'm sorry she never got a better holder, and best of luck...you deserve the Miracle Box, not me. Goodbye." And then she walked away. Season Four: - Chloé has decided that after Miracle Queen, she would never allow herself to be akumatized again. If it were to happen, it wouldn't be because she wanted it to. She made more of an effort, and yet eventually a student, say Lila, told her she was irredeemable and would never be loved by anyone ever again, not even her mother. Chloé tries to fight off the akuma, but she can't do it since Lila is still there mocking her, and she gets akumatized again. Once Ladybug and Cat Noir win with Vesperia, she leaves the scene before Ladybug can give her the magical charm, ashamed she failed to be positive again. When Zoe brings her the magical charm, claiming it's from Audrey, Chloé immediately accepts. She never learns what it really is, but she cherishes it since she believes it's proof her mother loves her after all. For the rest of the season, she works hard to redeem herself. Season Five: This season isn't out yet, but here's my idea. This is the last season I'm including, because I want to see at least one full season of her being fully redeemed, hence Season Six. - Chloé has been doing well lately, her class finds her more likeable than ever, and all seems well. But eventually, Mayura herself arrives on the scene. Zoé is sick, and it's too late for another permanent change, so Chloé is given back the Bee Miraculous for one final fight. Chloé wants to take this chance and make it the best final fight she can get, as her final battle for Ladybug. Everyone is brought back, and a long, difficult fight commences. The fight seems to be going in Mayura's favor, but Chloé sees her opportunity and she takes it. She follows Mayura, and a fight similar to the one in Miraculer starts, except when Queen Bee has Mayura at her mercy, she uses Venom, paralyzes her, and takes the Peacock Miraculous. She is shocked, but she immediately returns to Ladybug, holding the brooch in her hand. She gives it to Ladybug, and says, "Thank you for giving me one last chance. Here's the Miraculous of the Peacock. Mayura was... Nathalie, Gabriel Agreste's assistant." Everyone is shocked, they go to see Mayura, and they find Nathalie, still paralyzed. Cat Noir is naturally horrified, but with this knowledge they finally have back one of the lost Miraculouses. I'm too lazy to write out a Mayura redemption arc (which I feel she is a worthy candidate for) but they force the truth out of Nathalie, and go to take Hawkmoth's base by storm. I'm leaving you on a cliffhanger. Do they win or do they lose, that's for you to think about. I hoped you like it. Xd this was very long.
Imma, just let this out: When writing characters, I see as okay to have a favourite character and possibly least character, but there’s a line that mustn’t be crossed, that being favouritism effecting the characters. Thomas seems to do this with Chloe, because every time she gets some sort of redemption and/or character development, Thomas just straight up snatches it away from her and throws is away. I think Chloe would have been better off having the Bee Miraculous (IDK the name) instead of having it taken from her. “Bad people will never get a Miraculous”, Thomas says, well maybe try and give her the PROPER redemption arc she actually deserves. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
@@zak9158 I agree, she's kinda two faced. She seems to find it a lot easier to be scummy towards Lila and Chloe when hiding behind her Ladybug mask like a computer screen in an online argument. She seems just as arrogant and big headed as Chloe, the only difference is that Chloe is upfront.
I know,O literally wrote a character who’s a terrible person that if I knew her on real life,I’d resent her but I gave her development to a point where I like her because she grew as a person.And keep in mind that I’m not a “professional” writer,I don’t write for any shows or anything,and I’m not even an adult.I’ve been wanting to write stories since 5 or six years old so to see Thomas butcher writing like this is insulting
I really don’t get why Thomas would give her, her own arc is he hates her so much. Like if I hated one of my characters I would give them an arc at all, what kind of backwards juice did he drink. If Lila get her redemption arc I will jump in a hole and cry. I love characters who get development so you better believe am angry at how dirty he did Chloe.
This Show is such a Mess. Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge; some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done, but they were not brave enough. Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless. Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone. They need to understand they made a Mess because of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge; heck, some of the Authors even have weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF? Start over.
Chloe deserves a redemption arc but I wouldn’t be mad if Lila got one because Lila isn’t that bad. People hate her because she lies that’s it. They act like she’s a serial killer for lying or something and that’s so extra to me. Lila is a 14 year old girl just like Chloe, she can be redeemed too.
I feel like Astruc should've been in a mental hospital before creating this show.......when I told my father about Mr. Astruc's hatred towards a fifteen year old fictional character, my dad told me not to waste anymore of my time on this show and how this show is literal garbage because the creator believes that a child is evil, unredeemable and blah blah blah!🤦🏼♀️
He even made marinette a creep and Adrien blind Even if you guys say he also wasted Zoe I love her but he should have give her another miraculous he replaced everything and needs mental development
@@sfxmaybe honestly this show is literally trying to hurt the audiences.... And how Astruc is always on blocking spree...... DUDE, ASTRUC! YOU OPENED A TWITTER ACCOUNT SO THERE ARE ALWAYS SOME PEOPLE DISAGREEING WITH YOU. AT LEAST TRY TO TAKE CRITICISMS!🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️😑
You could tell Chloe loved the Bee Kwami :( it really hurted me cause everytime she received the miraculous she seemed so happy to see her Kwami again and she looked so sad when chat noir broke her miraculous. I really think they complemented each other and that her kwami would had helped her to become a better character
The extra slap in the face was immediately replacing her with the 'good twin'. When I look at Zoe, I see what Chloe wanted to be before being forced into the villian role. Zoe is everything Chloe wanted to be deep down, but couldn't because of the way she was raised, she didn't believe she could be that, but you see it, whenever she finally lets her guard down and humbles herself, whenever she gives a true apology, whenever she lets go of her pride and let's herself be a real person who isn't trying to impress her mother. The bravado she puts on is a mask she has created for herself to deal with her issues, and she had to go through a lot just to start taking it off. In my mind, Chole would have slowly let go of the bravado and front she puts on trying to prove she is better than everyone to impress her mother, and eventually, not immediately, would have started being nice to others. I'm not saying she would have been exactly like Zoe, but Zoe is basically Chloe with most of her negative aspects removed. Zoe even starts out mirroring Chloe's behavior to 'act the part of the family', but that SHOULD have been Chloe, finally letting go of her obsession with pleasing her mother to allow her good qualities to become more prominent. Instead, all her character development was just shifted into a new character so that we could have the old bully return to being the old bully, but they keep a bee miraculous holder, effectively making everything that was built with her utterly meaningless. Zoe learned to be her true self without caring about what her mother thinks? Who cares! We literally just met her! Seriously, the only reason she popped into existence was that they abandoned Chloe's redemption, and they need a bee miraculous holder.
tbh, Zoe was so random! she came out of nowhere. Her existence was never once mentioned in the show and that makes it so unrealistic. I don't hate Zoe but, I would always prefer Chloe has Queen Bee. Don't even get me started with MariShit giving out miraculous to random people!
Honestly the entire show deserves better. Why can’t Chloe become a better person? Why can’t Marinette have flaws and a break? Why can’t Adrien have more screen-time? This show has so many flaws with some things. Hence why I didn’t watch Miracle Queen when it came out. Because I had a gut feeling it wasn’t gonna be that good. 😑
I haven't watched season 4 yet because I'm still waiting for the english dub, but I highly doubt that they will ever give Chloe a redemption arc again because the creator of this show really hates his own 15 year old cartoon character so much for whatever reason.
Even then, it still feels kinda backwards. Chloe's idol and only friend she had a healthy relationship with couldn't spark change in her but a half sister she never knew she had will? I call bull. Sure, she could learn to love and respect others through her but, especially since Zoe's only meant to be around for a couple months, Chloe should have then needed the extra push from Ladybug and or Adrien. The current direction could have worked but Ladybug and Adrien needed to have a bigger impact on her. Those are people who's opinions she cares about, those are people she already loves, already respects. If your best friend told you they were in pain, wouldn't you be more able to help them out over a stranger who you'd only be able to console? If you know, love, and respect someone, they have a bigger impact on you, that's just kinda how brains work (you know how parents say they like pretty much everything their kid creates? They understand that their child values their thoughts. If the parent expresses disdain with say, drawing on the wall, the kid will usually stop doing it because they value their parent's wishes. If a stranger told them to stop drawing on a wall, the kid would be less inclined to listen to the person they don't know). You want to be the best version of you because you want these people to know you're worth their time and love.
I really don't understand hating your own characters. I've written characters that were genocidal psychopaths and destroyed worlds for profit. And I've loved them just as much as my protagonists. I can't get behind the mentality that it would take to hate a character like Chloé. Not at all.
I wrote a character who literally lied to her younger sister and forced the brother to lie to about her power potential out of pure jealousy and her ego,but I have her get redeemed because she realized she was wrong for it.I never hated her but I specifically wrote her to be unlikable but become a better person.Just because you want to make a character unlikable doesn’t mean you have to hate them
Personally, I think that the cast of ladybug his kind of bland they come off as really inconsistent sheep Chloe's one of the few people that have the defined character in the entire show that has many dimensions
Don’t forget that ladybug is an hypocrite and in season 4 she gave all the miraculouses that hawkmoth knows their identity old holders and forgot about Chloe just because she “ Hates her “ and is JEALOUS. 👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻
Overall the show has so much potential (and still does) however it falls flat in many areas With Chloe they scrapped her development over a bias they had against her. Chloe had so much potential (and many other characters) however they threw it down the drain for a 'climactic' finale In season 4 all they did was demonise her and make her a Disney tier villain by removing everything redeemable about her such as her friendship with Adrian or her appreciation for Sabrina. I like Zoe but the problem with her is that she feels like a replacement more than her own character. It also was weird and kinda cruel when she was given the bee miraculous 2 EPISODES after she was introduced. When Chloe sees the new queen bee miraculous holder shes just angry and not devastated that she lost something that she valued so much. They wasted Chloe so much and so many other characters for no reason but incompetence
This Show is such a Mess. Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge; some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done, but they were not brave enough. Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless. Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone. They need to understand they made a Mess because of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge; heck, some of the Authors even have weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF? Start over.
@@slevinchannel7589 Another issue I have is that because of them making Chloe out to be irredeemable there doing things that are very out of character for he to push this narrative that's shes evil. For example her ending her friendship was really out of character for her to do as shown in despair bear when she was called out on her actions an Adrian ended their friendship she threw a party and was trying to be nice towards others. It showed that she was desperate to maintain her relationship and how much she valued it and she ended it, that was out of character for her. Not realising ending their friendship was out of character was PURE INCOMPETENCE. They could have used a better reason for her hating Zoe as well. They made a non-sympathetic reason for her hating Zoe, because she was hanging out with Marinette. They could have used a way more interesting reason as well, They could have made her reason for hating her jealousy for being able to go to NY when she was refused by her mother. Its also out of character for her to treat Sabrina the way she has, whilst their relationship was toxic, it showed that Chloe truly cared about Sabrina and valued her friendship however now their making their relationship unrealistically toxic. The show has two problems INCOMPETENCE AND INCONSISTENCIES yes I completely agree with you, they should start over and acknowledge the flaws of the writing
@@kawaiiblossom8278 I definitely agree with the part where she feels like a replacement more then an actual character, ever since Zoe came it’s like Chloe has been so different all her redemption went away and everything was like absorbed in Zoe. And the sad part is how this is true is because Zoe has actually never got a episode about her until she came or until she got the miraculous now she’s just the character just to be there for no reason even when we don’t really need her a “holder” not a character Zoe is so much better being just a character then a holder if anything if she could of got another miraculous Zoe could of got the butterfly if hawk moth was defeated but I get it, Zag writers are just ruining the show.
Thanks for telling me. Now i can safely tell myself to never watch the new episodes because i highly doubt that it gets progressively better. Especially after they wasted the most complex and interesting character they have in the show: Chlóe!
@@eyelove_owlcity I only watch them if I want to screenshot characters for redesigning (I like the designs I just make them a bit less bland… I think ). But even then I watch the show on mute Becuase all I think when listening is wasted potential and how much Marinette’s character needs rewriting
This new Mary Sue..... Zoe! Oh my God! She's nice alright.........But she feels like replacement. Sidenote:And I also HATE how this Mary Sue has the same name as the awesome Aunt Zoe/Ms.Z from Spy Squad
Here is what I like about miracle queen. Miracle queen is Chloe’s chat blanc. This is the episode where she snaps. She kept getting rejected by ladybug and had to lose any opportunity to be queen bee, the one good thing in her life, her opportunity to be good. She snapped like Adrien did or is going to be. Dang, the more I watch your videos, the more parallels I see with these two.
Hell just like Adrien even Chloe has shown she goes through so much crap in her personal life and could have been taught to be more responsible with her miraculous but no Thomas hate boner for her ruined her writing just like Chat’s. Don’t get me wrong Vesperia is fine but “Buzz off” was literally made to be said by such a sassy and pampered queen bee, it fit to well to be give away to Zoe just because of Thomas. Once again a waste, zoe could have been her own hero too like she deserves but nope she’s now discount queen bee. Both deserve better. Smh. Thomas claims “She represents people who won’t and don’t change” that’s like saying people shouldn’t be given a chance or if you were a bad person in the past and made mistakes you can’t be redeemed or can’t try better. Her wasted potential was a horrible lesson for a show meant for being a “Show for Young girls.” Her pouring out her heart tearfully made me so happy and teary eyed, I love her as Queen bee and the fact that Lila would choose to be on the side of evil proves that Chloe wouldn’t, she has shown she truly doesn’t want to be evil, she’s just broken and abused like Adrien. Even marionette does more fucked up stuff and is genuinely just as bad in a more creepy way than Chloe and she’s our protagonist. I agree with all your points, Chloe deserved better and I hope the writers can figure it out one day. 🙏
Also she’s one of the only people who actually resisted hawk moth because she learned that’s what superhero’s do. She showed how much she learned and how good she can be. Only a truly good person can resist hawk moths temptation. It was a different writer who gave her justice, Thomas please learn from them and even if you hate the character, do it for the young girls, do it for the fans, do it for the characters you’ve created. Show that even when it’s a mother instead of a father abusing you doesn’t mean you have to be the same. People CAN change with love and compassion, don’t teach people who haven’t been loved and been neglected that they’ll never good good because of it. Please, that’s all we ask.
@@jackphoto8816 More fucked up stuff? Does Marinette purposely endanger dozens of innocent lives, antagonize her entire class, bully someone for 4 years, repeatedly abuse her father's position of power and try to destroy people's careers?
No.Chloe is my favorite superheroine and will always be. I wish the creator of the "Ladybug" series would reconsider and bring her back to the superhero team.
I totally agree! Chloe deserved so much better cuz she's just so interesting, complex, and very well fleshed out! I honestly consider her as my second most favorite character in Miraculous Ladybug. My most favorite character is obviously Adrien.
@@eyelove_owlcity i hope Thomas Astruc can get Chloe Bourgeois back to being Queen Bee in the new season by correcting her mistake made in the final episodes of Season 3's "Miracle Queen".
One good argument this one person had was that she wasn't redeeming for herself she was only doing so for Adrien because he told her that they cant be friends anymore. Because when your trying to change for someone/thing that isn't you it can end not well cuz you end up not knowing who you are anymore. My counter argument would be that still could've pushed her more especially if Adrien bothered to be there for her more since he threatened her about breaking up with her.
The problem is that when Chloe started being rude and dishonest again Adrien DID NOT keep his promise of quitting: he smiled "she'll never change" and never scolded her for the train, the fake video... This behavior cannot be useful
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT yes I wish they explore more her relation with Adrien and see how he can be there for her. Also, if Adrien still decided to "break up" with her after that, it would have been more meaningful. Now, he just sounds like he judges her without trying to understand her. Which is out of character for him in my opinion.
Yes THIS out of all the bad writing in the series this pisses me off the most, Chloe is not bad or horrible at least not completely and the fact that they took the one thing that make her grow as a character being queen bee being a real hero and grow allow her to grow no, Thomas piece of shit had to replace her with a random girl in season 4 give queen bee to a random girl is bs.
@@TheShadowChannel150 and honestly it doesn’t even count cause they only created her and made her her sister out of no where they never even hinted of her existence
imagine. if the 2 sisters finally started to get along and Zoë assures chloe that she wont see chloe as a monster like everyone else does after what she did at the end of s3. So now chloe doesn't wanna lose her and then they get in a situation where ladybug had to give one of em a miraculous and she obviously chooses Zoe not just that she give her bee one and because of the situation she has to give it in front of Chloe. And chloe now affraid of losing her sister and only person who doesnt see her as a monster supports zoe even tho she hates it that zoe is now using bee miraculous. the ep ends with zoe saving the day and chloe being happy for her still have her attitude ocfrse. she waves zoe off with a moderate smile and then goes to her room closes the door and just breaks down crying on the ground showing how much she actually regrets her decision of being bad in last season and how much it actually effects her despite her not showing anything at all and ep ends with that wallpaper kinda thing where chloes is crying on ground with her back to us. soon after optigami, zoe becomes the only person (apart from ladybug and chat noir) who’s identity is secret from hawkmoth so ladybug decides to leave miraculous with her permanently cuz giving and taking would be risky for identity and chloe too keeps it a secret and sometimes tries to help zoe with powers as she has experience with it. Shes still resentful and doesnt like ladybug at all but she likes her sister. later near or at the end of season zoe is in bad condition and ladybug and other heros are in dire need of help so chloe once again becomes queen bee, helps everyone, works as a team while showing shes doing it for zoe not for ladybug. at that time, lila too would have been developed more as a villian and maybe she would also be in the fight helping hawkmoth, maybe she was akumatised but i would like to imagine that she would have some miraculous, maybe peacock one or other, the miraculous doesnt have to be one from ladybugs box, maybe it was from some other box as we know there are many miraculous boxes and maybe hawkmoth would have gotten his hands on one or atleast one miraculos for lila. Chloe would face off lila as queen bee and defeat her after a lot of struggle. it would be fun to see 2 characters who were initially evil. this will show that lila and chloe cannot be compared as chloe isnt actually evil. this image of chloe if compared to her season 1 chloe, would be completely or hugely opposite showing that she has grown as a person and character. meanwhile, lila, also chnaged but opposite of chloe, she grew to be more and more evil and sickening. although lila would grow more evil, this will still mean that she HAS grown as a character. I would like to make Lila as villian for chloe rather than for ladybug and otehr heros, as lila and chloe were similar at 1st and now are opposite. ladybug and other heros have hawkmoth and mayora to take care of. and chloe can be a hero in this senario while lila, the villain. (end the fight however you wish :) ) After all of that (remeber zoe was there for a few months only) so zoe passes the miraculous onto chloe, she initially denies but then accepts and ofc ladybug asks for it back but chloe refuses saying that she has no interest in power or miraculouses anymore but this is the only sign that theres still one person who believes in her, and its too important for her to just hand it back even tho ladybug is the guardian. she more or less becomes and anti hero she doesnt show up to help ladybug but she doesnt use anything for bad either. She only uses it sometimes to help herself or sabrina/ her family or other helpless pple when they are danger but she avoids other heros. ik its never gonna happen cuz the writter just straight out called her a bad and mean person but i really liked how she was changing in s2 so im still gonna like her in this way. you can add if you want and lemme know do you think writter did chloe justice by refusing to finish her arc or not. sry fir spellings .
@@iquitmlalongtimeago3616 i would live ti make the entire show but majority people wont like it. if i were to make the show i would nerf down ladybug a little and make her realistic character while also adding real motives for her and consequences of her actions. but people love ladybug and wont like her to be weak as chatnoir.
this!!! with the season 4 and season 5 already being written and zoe being introduced, i reaally REALLY hope that they use zoe to help chloe redeem herself again
I get your point, but i just wish they've something better for Chloe. I mean they made me respect Chloe. If they want Chloe to be a good character, then they should stick with that idea. If they want Chloe to be an irredeemable bad character, then they should stick with that idea. They need to be consistent with their ideas and commitments. If they're just gonna keep on constantly changing their minds, then this show will most definitely not end well.
@@eyelove_owlcity ok I get it it's kinda the same thing with endeavor from my heroe on the other hand the story wants to have a redemption where the abuser owns up to his mistakes and becomes a better person and on the other the story just wants us to feel sorry for him and have a stupid he was his son all along theory
I don't understand how someone could hate their own character. As a writer, you love all your characters, even the villains. Sure, you love some characters more than others, but you don't HATE your own character. Actually no, you can hate a character if you make them to be hated (such as a character who's a r*pist or an abuser). However, how can you hate a character so much for being evil and call them irredeemable AFTER you give that character a deep backstory, an interesting personality, and MANY FUCKING REDEMPTION OPPORTUNITIES?!?? HOW??! WHY?!? TELL ME WHYYY?!?? Chloe deserves a lot better.
I once read someone's comment suggesting that Chloe might be based on a bully of Thomas. So maybe he really hates Chloe because to him, she's not a character, but his old bully. And he makes her the bad guy just to spite his bully.
Can we also talk about how they waste chat now? Like he gets no more screen time and is usually the first caught, plus ladybug is too op compared to him. They twist the story to basically replace him in situations, they dumb down and make the others smarter just so he cant be on screen
You kinda forgot to address the episode "Miraculer", because they actually showed more of Chloe's character redemption, she can no longer be Queen Bee, Chloe accepted that and gave her Miraculous. This was the episode before Queen Wasp btw
Personally I find it coherant that Chloe became the villain by the end of season 3. It happened on different shows, the supposed bad guy who wants to be good but no one gives him or her a chance and revert back to its old ways. When you are used to act a certain way you might be tempted to ge back to it and I think it was realistic. Morever Ladybug did play a part because she never took the time to explain to Chloe why she could not be Queen Be anymore and inadvertedly string her along. I wanted to see Chloe revert back as the villain because I think the feeling of neglect Ladybug inflict her was kinda similar to what her mother put her through and I wanted to see Ladybug take part of the responsability for Chloe's transformation. And I thought it was a great way to make her grow as a person. Cat noir told her multiple times to explain things to Chloe but she endlessy delayed it (she had other things to do I get it but still). For me it was well played, BUT big but, I tought it was part of her redemption arc (a redemtion arc is rarely someone who goes from bad to good without being tempted to go back to her old ways), that atfer choosing her darker path she would then realize that is was not what she wanted, but after watching the special episode and the beginning of season 4 that's when I realised that the writer had no intention to redeem her at all. You can't put a character throughout all thoses changes and revert her back exactly the way she was in season 1. That is crapy writing right there. That's when I realised that they truly wasted Chloe's character.
What I love about the scenes between cat noir and Chloe is that while he has his issues with Chloe as Adrien, he stocks by her and speaks to her with empathy and respect and does not let his biases get in the way when he transforms into Cat noir. This proves your point about how he is the only one who sees the good in her and understands her hardships. Marionette does ket her biases in the way and denies it. Yes, people are flawed, but Marionette feels she does nothing wrong when she hurts chloe. I love marionette, but she frustrates me when it comes to adrien, catnoir, and chloe. She needs to treat them better.
I love Chloe. I really do. She’s honestly the only reason why I like the show, and I really want her to get more character development! That’s if the writers actually start to OPEN THEIR EYES
No, George Lucas wouldn’t bash his fans lol Sure he was flawless, but he knew how to treat his characters respectfully and respond to criticism. So no, Thomas is not the George Lucas of MLB. Thomas Ass-truck is the Kathleen Kennedy or Rian Johnson of Miraculous Ladybug!
honestly zoe and chloe would be amazing main charec`ters better than marinette zoe is a sweet charecter that had a negleting mom and no dad but yet is kind chloe has a valid reason for being mean and is slowly redeeming herself marinette uses her powers for irresponsible reasons and adrien we can keep him ig he has good story but is just blind af
Frick Thomas, I want Chloe to have a redemption arc. She’s not evil, she’s hurt and trying to live up to her mother’s expectations.(explaining not justification) She can and *was going to* be redeemed.
Oh my god I never realized that the animator guy was a self insert, a dude who was throwing a hissy fit because he wasn’t getting all the recognition at the premier of a cartoon.
*Spoilers* There's 2 types of writers. I like how Horikoshi made Deku want to save Shigaraki even though the other characters said Shigi was irredeemable (MHA) while Thomas says she's irredeemable because she acts like a spoiled brat. Like w h a t?
Pacifica Northwest from Gravity Falls was a spoiled brat and she was redeemed. Diamond Tiara from MLP was a spoiled brat too and she was redeemed. Who says spoiled brats can't be redeemed?
my favorites so far is chloe and adrian for having a good backstory, character, goal and struggles. Mariennete didnt even get to that level. so dissing chloe is unforgivable to be honest
My theory Between the seasons The writer got sick so he hired another writer . That writer saw how Chloe behaves so decided to change it up a bit when the old writer was back he just saw the end and continued what he was doing
Don't forget that Lie-la was a helping hand with Hawk moth, and Marinette remember Adrien was on a date and that also somewhat got Chloe akumatized as well.
You know who I hate more than Chloe? Zoe. It's a cheap swing at Chloe. Chloe is easy on the eyes and has a character. Zoe is just bland I have no idea what her character is suppose to be except a replacement for a character that is hated by writers.
That’s what I thought too I felt kinda sorry for Chloe when her miraculous was not only taken away but was given to her half sister who she hates, it felt like a stab in the back and if got worse when Chloe became Queen Banana and Zoe was saying she was the better Queen Bee right to her face. I know it was to distract her but idk for some reason for me that was a dick move
Oh! And get this; the part when Zoe tells Chloe “You may hate me but I love you. And always will even if the whole world hates you.” Sounded like she just gave her a backhanded compliment.
And don´t you dare forget that (at her best) she was the only person able to resist an akuma (besides Marinette, but I think that was in a later episode). And the reason Chloe did it was because of pure loyalty.
Chloe was my absolute FAVORITE character, she was the character I was routing for her even though the show intended for you to rout for the main character Marinette (tbh I hate Mari her whole personality is liking Adrien), she’s been akumatized meany times, her mother neglected her AND her classmates hate her, and why do they hate her? Because she’s somewhat mean, like bro, can’t you just stand there, wait for a second and tell yourself : “ Why even IS she mean? Maybe because she was RAISED THAT WAY?” She had the most personality out of all the characters, a backstory, a reason for all her actions, MULTIPLE REDEMPTIONS, yet THEY JUST THREW HER OUT THE WINDOW?! Without Chloe miraculous ladybug will never be the same again, it should’ve been Lie-la that got removed
Why does Thomas pick Chloe as the irredeemable one when Lila is right there? Oh I know, because apparently Chloe represents his bully back then? Like I mean, you can redeem Chloe to show the bully that you can be a good person if you try. But no instead let's teach kids that if they ever see a bully, it means they are irredeemable and always be bully for the rest of their life. Great lesson for everyone :)
Chloe Bourgeois deserved so much better. She was by far the most interesting character in the show, and they completely threw her under the bus. I'm so sorry they did you dirty Chloe 😔
TBH, I wouldn't mind Chloe not getting a redemption arc if Lila's role didn't become redundant and the show didn't go out of it's way to redeem every major male villain, even when they're worse than Chloe.
It should also be noted why Thomas allegedly canceled her redemption, that being she was based off a bully of his in school. A reason which not only contradicts the message of Miraculous, but the superhero genre in general. In most modern superhero series villains are at worst misguided; and if we take some of his other comments into consideration he looks out of touch at best. He says it's a show for kids but by doing this he sets a horrible example to kids, that if someone is bullying you that they are an irredeemable a-hole in which your only option is to ignore instead of trying to help make them better.
Bruh. Chloe's family(except zoe, its just attempt to revive chloe, and its sucks) is much more developed than the rest of the show, but again, its all wasted
It was just bad writing... The problem wasn't that Cloe had a "fallback", but how they framed it. Marionette wasn't giving her the chance to help because of her obsession with Adrian. They should have put that in fokus. It would have been way more intessting to see how Marionettes flaws have an impact on other characters.
How do you even explain Zoe becoming queen bee in s4 which I haven’t watched but know she is for some reason Chloe is my favorite character cause I find her funny but that’s just not okay for me cause your giving HER SISTER THE MIRACULOUS like girl no, no, it’s like that’s not okay she wanted to actually show someone she’s good like girl stop
Didn't he base Chloe off a bully he knew or something? Regardless, I find it ironic how he hates Chloe yet he gave her some of the best character development (before throwing it away).
she could have had a beautiful redemption arc that honestly could have followed a similar route as bakugou from bnha, some of the most beloved characters are ones that have gone through their own personal journeys like zuko, catra, any steven universe villain, (all children's shows) etc. but this show is just telling its audience that people can't change, and that's not just with chole it's with everyone. Every time marinette seems like she is moving on the next episode she is still creepy.
The simplest solution wouldve been to give Chloe a different miraculous so she can still be on the heroes side but as a new superhero There are at least 8 other unclaimed miraculous at the time that ladybug couldve given her a different one instead of the bee
I swear there are actually some good writers in Miraculous, which is why Chloe has a redemption arc, those writers actually want Chloe to be a good writing character, but Thomas was like ”No no I hate Chloe, she can never be good” and obviously the writers can't do anything against the producer, it is his show :/ and the writers just give up and fuck season 4🤷♀️
I’m very sad that Chloe got wasted because Thomas Assh*le hates her :{ 💔 The writers during season 2 made Chloe redeemable many times which was a great move but then Thomas-Dick-WAD decided to retcon her character redemption arcs entirely to keep his own original vision intact when he already had Lila for that! It’s like he hates to make changes to his characters that would make them better, and not wanting to put his original character concept to a different character! :/ In terms of making a character, it’s important to make some sacrifices to make the characters better overtime, and with those early character concepts you pass them to a different character. Like let’s take Pixar’s very first Animated movie Toy Story (1995) for an important example: When Toy Story was in production, John Lassater and his team went through lots of changes in production making a Tin Toy Christmas Special but decided change things drastically like with the early concept of Woody the cowboy, replacing that ventriloquist dummy with a cowboy doll and replacing Tin Toy with a Spaceman known as Buzz Lightyear. Out of the two characters, Woody was actually the most complicated character to get right, because that idiotic Disney Chairman executive Jeffrey Katzenberg intended Woody to be edgy and a complete douche bag that makes you want to punch him in the face shown in that Black Friday Reel, everyone including John Lassater and the other Disney executives hated that idea because it wasn’t Pixar’s movie anymore, and was not the story John Lassater set out to make, and Disney forced them to shut production down, but they were not about to let that happen. In 2 weeks, the team had to change the story and the characters a lot and make it the movie we all love today, along with Woody being a likable character. 💞 And then when Toy Story 3 was production, they looked back at the early character concept for Woody who was edgy and a villain, they decided to give that kind of character to Toy Story 3’s main villain, Lotso Hugging Bear. That’s how you change characters, but for the better! Thomas Ass-h*le with MLB on the other hand, he’s so stupid that he doesn’t want pass that early concept of Chloe where she’s an irredeemable character to Lila, who was literally irredeemable throughout the show! He’s like *“NO!! F#% THAT!! I CAN DO A CARTOON HOWEVER I FEEL LIKE IT!!”* -_-
I love that you mentioned Pacifica Northwest from Gravity Falls, because with Pacifica we met her as the stereotypical rich, mean girl who is rude to our mains, especially Mabel, and she stays like that until the golf episode thing with the weird golfball people, where at the end we see her actually improve as a character. Then, in The Mystery of Northwest Mansion, we see her parents and that they seem to not care about Pacifica, but the image of Pacifica. Her mother also complains about her dress, and not caring that her daughter likes the dress. Then, when Dipper tells her that she's just like her family, you can tell that the realization and hurt hit her all at once. Then, when she sees everyone as wooden statues, especially Dipper, she walks over to the lever to open thw gates. And when her father tries to ring his bell to get her to join thwm in their bunker, she waits for a moment, then she does it anyways. This turns everyone back to normal, and the townsfolk stream through the doors and crash into the fancy rich people party. Then, we see the beautiful scene where Dipper says "Hey, look what we're standing on" with it being the carpet she refused to touch earlier on. Instead of freaking out, she smiles, and gets more mess on it. After that episode, you actually start to like her. Character development, something the writers clearly need to learn how to do.
I think they either should have : -made a hero to villain plot -made a villain to hero plot But villain to hero to villain again... It just seems like a waste of time.
I used to see her as the typical mean rich girl. But by now she not only became my favorite, she also turned out to be the most realistic character in the series (before she got turned evil again for no reason). Chloé is my dear queen bee and bad writing will not ruin that.
This was one of the reasons of why i dropped the show, that and how Marinette was becoming an awful character but everyone around her was cheering and pushing her to be like that, i really want to see her redemption and character growth but they just ruined that out of pity because she was becoming more popular than Marinette, that's awful, it's like that thing that happens on Star vs the forces of evil imagine if in Avatar, the writers ruin Zuko's character development just because people were liking him more than Aang
Chloe was the only character who was keeping the show interesting. The other characters are literally nothing. Mari Sue ( Marinette ) a Stalker Psychopath and she is treated like a goddess. Adrien ( Chat Noir ) the production say is a Main protagonist is a mere a comic relief as Chat Noir and a love interest for Mari sue as Adrien and a mistreated character. Slenderman ( Gabriel ) someone who make Psychological terrorism and commit and imprecise numbers of Crimes, is treated as a Hero. Chloe a child who suffer of mother abandoning and coping the mother who always forget her name because she believe if she act like her mother maybe her mother will notice her. For her creator she is like Hitler
Heaven forbid we get characters that surpass the main character. Chloe becomes seemingly more complex with her redemption? Nah she was evil all along. Adrien / Chat is the favorite for some fans? Lets give Rena Rouge more screentime with Ladybug
Chloe and Adrien deserve to be part of a better show.
I mean, season 5 might have the big reveal right? There's a lot with Chat there since Hawk daddy is Chat's father. There will be a lot of screen time for Chat there. Rn might as well focus on Ladybug. I'm sure Chat will get the screen time he deserves.
@@kawaiidays2528 That's a good point, I just hope you're right
@@kawaiidays2528 oMG THE NICKNAME HAWK DADDY-
@@tnandc yeah that is true 👍😄😀
Yeah I agree 10000%
They did Chloe and the entire fandom so dirty with that s3 finale...
I know right! Thanks to that god awful season 3 finale, the fandom got divided.
My favourite character is Chloe, and I'm so hurt by the fact that they replaced her.
@@willyfrankenstein6595 yeah she is my fav too
@@willyfrankenstein6595 She was my favourite character before they erased her redepsion arch
@@willyfrankenstein6595 heh and they replaced her with her step sister that we didn’t know for like a long time
I really didn't like Chloe in the earlier seasons, but once she started getting her character development she really grew on me. Then she just...reverted back to her old ways because Thomas says she's evil. Such wasted potential right there
Exactly my word, dude. She deserved so much better than what Thomas Astruc did.
Same!
Especially in s4 sole crusher
@@MmmmChezburger yup
they killed her :")
She was finally getting character development and they decided to 📈📉
I know right!
Exactly! 😭
@@miss_chelles1338 I agree 👍💯👏
Screw zoey she's boring and mellowed out like cmon give up the spice that chloe gave us and make it turn into a nice complementing flavor instead of bland zoey flavor
It sucks
I believe season 2 had a different main writer, which is why Chloe got so much spotlight and development. That's only what I heard though, i dunno if it's really true.
I dunno if that's true either but if that is true, then it all makes sense now.
Even if it was true, the problem is still there, because Chloé did not realize actually that she was an ass, she thought that her problem was "being useless" and that could fixed with a superpower. A bad misunderstanding, that fans forget
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT Actually, no. You're wrong. She did realize that she was being mean to everyone, she even said in the episode "Origins Part 2" from season 1 when Stone Heart yeeted her in an attempt to kill her “Please, help me! I promise I'll be *nice to everyone* and-” she gets cut short by Ladybug saving her but you can clearly hear her say that. She *knows* that her being rude to others is the problem here, so I think it's safe to say that what you said is not correct.
@@yourlocalchloesimp ah ah and once saved she kept bullying people
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT Yeah, well...that was before her redemption arc began so it doesn't really count, she wasn't going to change then. It was in season 1 and things only got started in season 2.
Chloe truly is one of the most tragic characters ever, she isn't just disregarded and cast asside by her mother, but by her creator as well...
This Show is such a Mess.
Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge;
some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done,
but they were not brave enough.
Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless.
Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone.
They need to understand they made a Mess because
of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge;
heck, some of the Authors even have
weird Bias against Blondes, apparently.
I feel bad for her,she isn't a monster,she's just a kid who was wronged
I'm like dude/dudette, Chloe is just a fictional character not a real life person.
In my opinion Chloe is the only character in this show that feels human the only person who's interesting to watch the only person that is affected by there surroundings the only one who really developed or changed and she is honestly my favorite character but seriously fuck the season 3 finale and all colors scenes so far in season 4 because I swear to God Thomas Astruc just made her into the worst person possible just to flip all of us who like her the middle finger
I agree, dude. She deserved so much better.
@@eyelove_owlcity yeah I agree with you 💯👌👍
@@komorebi3555 yeah, at least Luka could have stayed as a blank piece of paper meant to be Marinette second choice for love tension only, nothing more nothing less, i think i would prefer that than what they did to him and kagami in the first two ep of s4.
Also Chloé being worse than in S1 is wow
I uonestly stopped watching when they did her dirty... Might as well make my own Au in my head.
@@-thewanderer-840 Don't we all, that and read fan fiction where Chloe wasn't written by Astruc. I have stopped watching as well but I'll watch the occasional one if I'm in need of something you laugh at. Cause it's so stupid it's funny.
I don’t understand why Thomas hates Chloe so much! If they want a character that doesn’t redeem themselve they already have psychopath-Lila for that!
Plus if you’re writing a show, you might get biased here or there. There’s really no escaping bias because everyone has their limits but RUINING AN ENTIRE GODDAMN CHARACTER JUST BECAUSE OF BIAS IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF TAKING IT TOO FAR. YOU CAN DEFINITELY PREVENT IT BECAUSE THE CHARACTER MADE IT THAT FAR. THAT CHANGED WAY TOO MUCH TO THE POINT WHERE THE BIAS WAS SO OBVIOUS.
@@arcillanicoandreisalaveria3824 EXACTLY!
i heard chloe is highly inspired by Thomas's old bully. so that's why 💀👍🏻
@@yeahno5278 Yeah, I heard that to. That’s honestly so immature!
@@yeahno5278 that's the most stupid thing I heard of to RUIN A WHOLE CHARACTER FOR
Thomas wants to teach kids that unless you're perfect out of the womb like Creepynette, you will always be an irredeemable evil brat. God I can't stand him at this point lol rip
Honestly Marinette is arguably worse than Chloe. She has committed several crimes and is a totally creepy stalker. Chloe may be a bit of a bully,but I don't recall her committing any crimes at least from what I remember
@@skydragonslayer9820 EXACTLY.Also- Crapnette is more of a bitch than Chloe
and if you dont ship the toxic adrinette you are a witch and evil - thomas asstruck
@@skydragonslayer9820 Acording to her villan wiki she has committed Treason
Abuse
Psychological abuse
Theft
Destruction
Blackmail
Incrimination
Aiding criminal activity
Terrorism
Conspiracy
Brainwashing
Murder (indirectly)
Attempted murder
Public endangerment
Corruption
Marinette is such an awful protagonist
Unpopular opinion: CHOLE NEEDS HER OWN SHOW ABOUT HER CHILDHOOD
We need a full episode of chloe's past atleast
@@leonortorres3596 exactly like she’s an important character bro
I had the exact same idea! Chloe Bourgeois is interesting enough to star in her own show! "Miraculous Ladybug" should have a spin-off series with Chloe as the main character!
@@burgerfood8076 I need tha spin-off in my life
Fact Thomas is not showing backstories and this is what I hate about we need to know more about Chloe abd others
Other villain characters who got a redemption arc: That's rough buddy.
Compared to a lot of redeemed villain characters, Chloe's a damn angel. Do Thomas and his team just suck ass at writing against the status quo?
@@47ratsinahoodie actually I’m pretty sure quite a lot of them quit early on? So he replaced them? I don’t know %100..
I know right. It's astounding that they think Chloe can't be redeemed because Prince Zuko (the character you're referencing) literally had the same problem as Chloe (he was a nice guy at first, his father neglected him and then **SPOILERS for ATLA**). But Zuko was eventually redeemed and became one of the best (if not the best) character from the show.
@@47ratsinahoodie Yea they do🥲
Gotta love how a grown ass man who basically abandoned his kids can get redemption but a 14 year old girl who was neglected can't (yeah I know he isn't technically a villain)
Imagine hating a character that *you* created who's only like a 13 year old girl.
That said I stopped watching the moment when Chloe's development got shattered (i think it was S2 or S3) and just ignore the later seasons ever happened. Miraculous Fanfiction became my coping mechanism for like 4 months after that
Thomas Astruct is so childish 💀🤚
People hate Chloe a 14 year old girl but they also hate Lila who is also 14 and people think she’s irredeemable for some reason just for lying a lot… that’s so weird to me.
@@corimoon3360 yeah, i think even lila herself could redeem, she clearly is a compulsive liar, and unlike everyone thinks compulsive liars are, they lie not because they like to but because they can't NOT lie by the point they reached, compulsive lying is an extremely self destructive action
It’s called compulsive lying.They can’t keep themselves from lying.It’s a compulsion.Lila could learn how to stop lying,and become redeemable but Thomas Astruc is douchebag so that’s bound to never happen
Understandable- The fanfics for Chloe did her WAY better
We hate Chloe, then we like Chloe, then we miss Chloe
Chloe is a whole mess
@@thehandlover7492 *this show is a whole mess
@@ihavenoidea2805 true
Yeah if that's not weird enough-
@thehandlover7492Bro,hating the bully and denying the backstory?
Lol, you're no good then?
Chloe was my favorite character for season 2 and MOST of season 3, so I agree with you 100%. At the same time I feel like you could’ve included the “Why don’t you love me mom” scene as well as her being the first character to fight off an akuma because those are the two most influential moments of her redemption arc IMO.
Yeah sorry that i forgot to mention those things about Chloe. There's just so much to talk about her y'know?
I loved those moments
@@eyelove_owlcity This Show is such a Mess.
Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge;
some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done,
but they were not brave enough.
Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless.
Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone.
They need to understand they made a Mess because
of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge;
heck, some of the Authors even have
weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF?
Start over.
@@eyelove_owlcity This Show is such a Mess.
Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge;
some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done,
but they were not brave enough.
Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless.
Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone.
They need to understand they made a Mess because
of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge;
heck, some of the Authors even have
weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF?
Start over.
That kills me inside when she asks her mom that. Devastating.
This isn't mine but I totally agree with it...
Absolutely. They made her go to Hawkmoth’s side to show that she’s evil again, but that doesn’t make sense for her at all. (Sorry, got carried away, TL;DR at the end).
Say what you will about Chloe, but she has never tried to hurt people like Hawkmoth does. True, she’s a bully, and she hits people where it hurts psychologically, but she’s never been interested in intentionally putting anyone in harm’s way or ruling over Paris or anything Hawkmoth’s doing. She’s a bitch, but she’s not a psychopath. If anything, Hawkmoth has been Chloe’s enemy way more than he’s been her ally, because he’s gone after the very few people she cares about several times (including in Loveater).
We’ve seen repeatedly that what Chloe really wants is to be loved and recognized as a hero like Ladybug is; that’s why she was doing good things. Who on Earth is gonna love her if she allies herself with the supervillain terrorizing Paris? Even if she reasons that Ladybug’s enemies are her friends, I still don’t really buy Chloe just going over to Hawkmoth.
However, when Ladybug fails her and her trust in her idol is shattered, I do buy Chloe’s anger at Ladybug, and I buy her going back to her horrible behavior. And I also buy her being so full of herself that she believes herself capable of double-crossing Hawkmoth, stealing the Bee Miraculous, and trying to be a hero on her own, because she’s the only one who knows how to do things right and everyone else is an utter idiot (in fairness to her, she wouldn’t be completely mistaken on that point). That fits her character and her arc so much better, and will eventually put her at odds with the reason why her redemption up to this point hasn’t really been valid: she’s doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Being Queen Bee, or being nice, isn’t something you do because you want to be praised; it’s something you do because it’s the right thing to do, simple as that.
Reverting her to an archetypical mean girl like this just puts us back in square one, and really that’s why people are annoyed. Because there’s no moving forward now without retreading the path we’ve already tread, and we’ve seen that that hasn’t led anywhere. But having her take her own path would’ve been much more unique, and it would’ve allowed her the chance to face her mistakes up to this point and set things right. It also would’ve shaken up the status quo of the show a little, which after three seasons is desperately needed, and could’ve even been a foil to Marinette’s hesitation and self doubt during the episode, and probably during the next season, where we’ll (hopefully, based on the final scene) see Marinette and Adrien move past their crushes and turn to look at themselves to improve.
TL;DR: Chloe should’ve played Hawkmoth, taken the Bee Miraculous and tried to take him down with it, to prove Ladybug wrong, and to prove to everyone that she’s better than Ladybug. That’s the downfall that would’ve fit her current path, and would’ve been more interesting to watch.
You're TL;DR at the end is so right. I would have loved to see that as well.
@@miss_chelles1338 yeah me too ✋🙂it's so cool
Thanks for writing an essay to explain one character
@@-mazesworld-9807 Is that a compliment?
oh I would have loved if they have done that. Most interesting than her being manipulated by the villain and went back to the point she was before she became a hero.
I was 100% sure Chloe gonna betray hawk moth in season 3 finale and I was so hyped up to see it happen😃
Then I saw the the whole episode……🤡 I feel betrayed
I will forever hate that episode.
@@derive8251 He is not going to redeem Chloe because he hates her more than anything. Like, does anyone else think that it's a bit weird that a middle aged man is spreading hate on social media about Chloe? Have you seen his tweets? That guy hates her more than anything, and he clearly has his problems if he needs to hate on a fictional character like that
@@pwpqwq7648 Why hasn't been fired yet? In fact, Thomas ironically the bigger bully thsn Chloé!
@@Jellygirl313 what bases are there for a redemption? Chloé cries in Malediktator "I AM. USELESS" and thinks that a Miraculous is owed and fixes this. NO!!! the point is that she is ARROGANT AND DISHONEST and you cannot play the hero if you keep all of this in daily life, from Animaestro to Felix and Miraculer too. You cannot blame Astruc about Chloé if this is the point. You can blame him for not putting a character to spit all of this and to punish her. If you are a bully you must stop bullying and must treat people like you would like people to treat you
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT Bruh. What they are saying is that for most of season 3 Chloe has been getting development all the way until the Finale where all of her development goes to waste. Plus bringing up points from season 1 doesn’t help your claim.
So fun fact: Chloe is based off a girl who bullied Thomas Astruc in school.
Plus Astruc wasn’t there was season 2 was being written. Which gave the writers a chance to give Chloe a redemption arc. However, when Astruc returned for season 3 he quickly began undoing that arc and character growth.
Knowing all that plus how Astruc says how Chloe is a bad, irredeemable person makes me believe there is some unresolved trauma there.
huh. how weird. thomas astruc wasn't there for you know... THE BEST SEASON OF MIRACULOUS???????????
I kinda feel bad for him. I somewhat understand him. But he needs therapy and a support group
@@-irene-29 YES, YES, THAT IS SO TRUE
Ohh yes but there's more:
Sabine was the name of his ex who was chinese and he named Marinette's dad Thomas after himself. The Dupain Cheng family is basically his self insert fantasy scenario where he is still together with his ex and had a daughter together. Hence why he adored Marinette so much and will excuse her creepy behaviors, that's HIS fantasy daughter.
Call this a rumor or whatever but I heard it from a comment section in some other videos. But I wouldn't be so surprised if it was true.
Derision..
Chloe was just a schoolyard bully, but Lila is a straight up psycho lmao
All she really does is lie. Chloe and Marinette however..
All Lila does is lie compulsively.That doesn’t make her psycho.Marinette is a freaking stalker,if anything she’s the real psycho
She just lies.. Marinette stalks, steals, lies, and talks about other girls
@@helpme424 she was comparing chloe with lila , not lila with marinette
And Lila doesn't just lie , she is a monster , saying this cuz my best friend was like Lila , she broke my heart so fucking bad
Lila makes people like her by lying ,and changing her whole personallity when people know about the real her they will get their heart broken
But cuz she is lying that much , she must have a sad backstory too
@@magikforce4069 Did you watch the "Chameleon" and "Ladybug" episodes? Lila is crazy
Chloé's redemption was ruined. Now, I don't like Chloé. She's far from my favorite character, and the hate she gets isn't completely undeserved. HOWEVER, she certainly didn't deserve to have an amazing redemption set up only for Miracle Queen to ruin everything, and Thomas shouldn't be having a passion for hating a fictional character he, along with the rest of the writers, created. Here is an IDEAL redemption for Chloé (in my opinion):
Pre-Origins
- Chloé, deep down, doesn't SEEM to have originally been a brat. But thanks to Audrey, "you're only exceptional because of me" Bourgeois, she felt the only way to cope was being a jerk to everyone.
- She wants her mother to believe she's exceptional too, so she ends up becoming the bully we know her to be.
Season One:
- In the first half of the season, she's being cruel like before. But she encounters a roadblock when Adrien, one of the only people whose opinion she cared about up to that point, calls her out. Then, let's say Chloé accidentally makes a fight go longer than it should, because she's being a jerk. After the fight, Ladybug tells her off, and after hearing her crush AND her idol tell her off for being cruel, Chloé decides to try and change.
Season Two:
- Chloé is trying to become a better person, but not very successfully. She genuinely wants to change, if only for Adrien and Ladybug to like her again at this point in the show, but it's proving harder than expected for her. Chloé is upset that she can't seem to get the hang of being a good person ever since her mother's neglect, and she gets akumatized. After Ladybug saves her, Chloé directly apologizes to Ladybug for letting her emotions take the better of her. Ladybug decides to give her a chance, and apologizes for her mistakes as well. Later in the season, Chloé accidentally finds the Bee Miraculous. She wants to keep it for herself, but there's an akuma fight going on. She decides to be selfish and keep it, but when she realizes Ladybug and Cat Noir might need some additional help, she activates the Bee Miraculous for the first time, and with Ladybug and Cat Noir the villain is successfully defeated. Naturally, people are suspicious that Queen Bee suddenly found her Miraculous, but Chloé has a moment and refuses to give it back. Everyone's surprised and upset, and when she gets home, she's angry and goes inside, without detransforming, and says to a shocked Audrey, "Am I still only exceptional because of you, Mother?" Later in the season, Ladybug has a heartfelt talk with Queen Bee to try and get her to return the Miraculous, and Chloé finally admits she's only trying to be helpful.. Only trying to become who she wants to be. Then, without a second thought, she detransforms and returns the Miraculous. Ladybug's surprised to see Chloé being this way, but she gives her a chance and tells her that for her honesty, she might get it back, although it's unlikely, seeing as Audrey was a snitch and told everyone who Queen Bee was. Chloé doesn't care, she's just happy that her idol doesn't hate her for hee past mistakes. On heroes day, she helps the team defeat the supervillains.
Season Three:
- Ever since Ladybug's reassurance, Chloé's started to behave more kindly in class, and it's noticable. There's only one problem: Ladybug isn't sure she can give the Bee Miraculous back to Chloé, since Hawkmoth knows who she is. Chloé is worried Ladybug doesn't trust her anymore, even when she tried her hardest, but when Hawkmoth tries to akumatize her, she straight up says no. Even if she doesn't know if Ladybug trusts her, she wants to do the right thing for her, for Paris. (Something that bothers me is they take the time to write Chloé rejecting Hawkmoth, which nobody has ever done before, and STILL mess up her character. CAT/CHAT NOIR couldn't do it, and his name is in the TITLE SCREEN.) Cue Sabrina getting akumatized.
Chloé is surprised when the Bee Miraculous is offered to her, even after all her mistakes, and she asks out loud if she truly deserves it. Ladybug assures her she does, and Queen Bee returns. With her help, they defeat Miraculer. Then Ladybug gives her the news: she'll be in danger if she becomes Queen Bee ever again. Chloé is crushed, since she thinks all her hard work to become a better person was for nothing, but she accepts Ladybug's words and returns the Miraculous. For the rest of the season, Chloé is mostly kept in the dark, overshadowed by other conflicts. We see a few scenes of her brooding over her predicament, and yet we also see a few scenes of her being a decent person, intended to give the effect of wondering what she's really up to and if her "acceptance" of being retired from superhero work is really the whole story.
Then comes the finale. If you've ever heard the song "Queen of Mean" then think of that. We learn that this entire time, Chloé hasn't accepted it as gracefully as she claims to have, and she says, "If nobody thinks I'm important, even when I try my very best, then what do I have to lose by giving in, by accepting my fate?" This entire time, she's been on the verge of breaking down and letting an akuma take her over. Her parents are neglectful. She hs few friends, even with her attitude change, and the one thing that made her feel like she could be a good person after all was stripped away from her. She KNOWS it's selfish to want the Miraculous back, even though she knows the dangers, and she feels like she failed Ladybug. She finally gives in, and she gets akumatized into Miracle Queen. When Ladybug and Cat Noir defeat her, she tells them: "I know you're disappointed. I've rejected Hawkmoth before, you know. Remember Miraculer? That akuma was originally meant for me. To think I haven't allowed him to akumatize me, only to let this happen. I had nothing left to lose." She gave Ladybug a sad smile. "Tell Pollen I'm sorry she never got a better holder, and best of luck...you deserve the Miracle Box, not me. Goodbye." And then she walked away.
Season Four:
- Chloé has decided that after Miracle Queen, she would never allow herself to be akumatized again. If it were to happen, it wouldn't be because she wanted it to. She made more of an effort, and yet eventually a student, say Lila, told her she was irredeemable and would never be loved by anyone ever again, not even her mother. Chloé tries to fight off the akuma, but she can't do it since Lila is still there mocking her, and she gets akumatized again. Once Ladybug and Cat Noir win with Vesperia, she leaves the scene before Ladybug can give her the magical charm, ashamed she failed to be positive again. When Zoe brings her the magical charm, claiming it's from Audrey, Chloé immediately accepts. She never learns what it really is, but she cherishes it since she believes it's proof her mother loves her after all. For the rest of the season, she works hard to redeem herself.
Season Five:
This season isn't out yet, but here's my idea. This is the last season I'm including, because I want to see at least one full season of her being fully redeemed, hence Season Six.
- Chloé has been doing well lately, her class finds her more likeable than ever, and all seems well. But eventually, Mayura herself arrives on the scene. Zoé is sick, and it's too late for another permanent change, so Chloé is given back the Bee Miraculous for one final fight. Chloé wants to take this chance and make it the best final fight she can get, as her final battle for Ladybug. Everyone is brought back, and a long, difficult fight commences. The fight seems to be going in Mayura's favor, but Chloé sees her opportunity and she takes it. She follows Mayura, and a fight similar to the one in Miraculer starts, except when Queen Bee has Mayura at her mercy, she uses Venom, paralyzes her, and takes the Peacock Miraculous. She is shocked, but she immediately returns to Ladybug, holding the brooch in her hand. She gives it to Ladybug, and says, "Thank you for giving me one last chance. Here's the Miraculous of the Peacock. Mayura was... Nathalie, Gabriel Agreste's assistant." Everyone is shocked, they go to see Mayura, and they find Nathalie, still paralyzed. Cat Noir is naturally horrified, but with this knowledge they finally have back one of the lost Miraculouses. I'm too lazy to write out a Mayura redemption arc (which I feel she is a worthy candidate for) but they force the truth out of Nathalie, and go to take Hawkmoth's base by storm.
I'm leaving you on a cliffhanger. Do they win or do they lose, that's for you to think about. I hoped you like it. Xd this was very long.
Dude, you can like, make an entire video about Chloe using your comment as a script. Awesome, dude!
How does thomas hate is own character
@@3rebella No idea, that's Thomas Astruc for you. It's ridiculous, utterly ridiculous
@@drfrogscript Yep 😂 . Great au btw.
@@3rebella thanks :)
Imma, just let this out:
When writing characters, I see as okay to have a favourite character and possibly least character, but there’s a line that mustn’t be crossed, that being favouritism effecting the characters. Thomas seems to do this with Chloe, because every time she gets some sort of redemption and/or character development, Thomas just straight up snatches it away from her and throws is away.
I think Chloe would have been better off having the Bee Miraculous (IDK the name) instead of having it taken from her. “Bad people will never get a Miraculous”, Thomas says, well maybe try and give her the PROPER redemption arc she actually deserves.
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
also marinette is creepy and shouldnt be the main chracter thats so beloved
@@zak9158 I agree, she's kinda two faced. She seems to find it a lot easier to be scummy towards Lila and Chloe when hiding behind her Ladybug mask like a computer screen in an online argument. She seems just as arrogant and big headed as Chloe, the only difference is that Chloe is upfront.
I know,O literally wrote a character who’s a terrible person that if I knew her on real life,I’d resent her but I gave her development to a point where I like her because she grew as a person.And keep in mind that I’m not a “professional” writer,I don’t write for any shows or anything,and I’m not even an adult.I’ve been wanting to write stories since 5 or six years old so to see Thomas butcher writing like this is insulting
I really don’t get why Thomas would give her, her own arc is he hates her so much. Like if I hated one of my characters I would give them an arc at all, what kind of backwards juice did he drink. If Lila get her redemption arc I will jump in a hole and cry. I love characters who get development so you better believe am angry at how dirty he did Chloe.
This Show is such a Mess.
Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge;
some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done,
but they were not brave enough.
Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless.
Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone.
They need to understand they made a Mess because
of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge;
heck, some of the Authors even have
weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF?
Start over.
Sadly, I think lila will get a redemption arc.😔
Me too 😢😣
Chloe deserves a redemption arc but I wouldn’t be mad if Lila got one because Lila isn’t that bad. People hate her because she lies that’s it. They act like she’s a serial killer for lying or something and that’s so extra to me. Lila is a 14 year old girl just like Chloe, she can be redeemed too.
@@corimoon3360I mean I wouldn't mind it too,but the problem is it probably be to "prove"that Chloe Is "irredeemable" and that's sad to hear.
So Thomas hates his own creation?
Sadly yes
I feel like Astruc should've been in a mental hospital before creating this show.......when I told my father about Mr. Astruc's hatred towards a fifteen year old fictional character, my dad told me not to waste anymore of my time on this show and how this show is literal garbage because the creator believes that a child is evil, unredeemable and blah blah blah!🤦🏼♀️
He even made marinette a creep and Adrien blind
Even if you guys say he also wasted Zoe I love her but he should have give her another miraculous he replaced everything and needs mental development
@@sfxmaybe honestly this show is literally trying to hurt the audiences....
And how Astruc is always on blocking spree......
DUDE, ASTRUC! YOU OPENED A TWITTER ACCOUNT SO THERE ARE ALWAYS SOME PEOPLE DISAGREEING WITH YOU. AT LEAST TRY TO TAKE CRITICISMS!🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️😑
You could tell Chloe loved the Bee Kwami :( it really hurted me cause everytime she received the miraculous she seemed so happy to see her Kwami again and she looked so sad when chat noir broke her miraculous. I really think they complemented each other and that her kwami would had helped her to become a better character
The extra slap in the face was immediately replacing her with the 'good twin'. When I look at Zoe, I see what Chloe wanted to be before being forced into the villian role. Zoe is everything Chloe wanted to be deep down, but couldn't because of the way she was raised, she didn't believe she could be that, but you see it, whenever she finally lets her guard down and humbles herself, whenever she gives a true apology, whenever she lets go of her pride and let's herself be a real person who isn't trying to impress her mother. The bravado she puts on is a mask she has created for herself to deal with her issues, and she had to go through a lot just to start taking it off. In my mind, Chole would have slowly let go of the bravado and front she puts on trying to prove she is better than everyone to impress her mother, and eventually, not immediately, would have started being nice to others. I'm not saying she would have been exactly like Zoe, but Zoe is basically Chloe with most of her negative aspects removed. Zoe even starts out mirroring Chloe's behavior to 'act the part of the family', but that SHOULD have been Chloe, finally letting go of her obsession with pleasing her mother to allow her good qualities to become more prominent. Instead, all her character development was just shifted into a new character so that we could have the old bully return to being the old bully, but they keep a bee miraculous holder, effectively making everything that was built with her utterly meaningless. Zoe learned to be her true self without caring about what her mother thinks? Who cares! We literally just met her! Seriously, the only reason she popped into existence was that they abandoned Chloe's redemption, and they need a bee miraculous holder.
tbh, Zoe was so random! she came out of nowhere. Her existence was never once mentioned in the show and that makes it so unrealistic. I don't hate Zoe but, I would always prefer Chloe has Queen Bee. Don't even get me started with MariShit giving out miraculous to random people!
@@LostInMyOwnWorld Please spell it rigth it’s marinette
@@BornForElijah no
@@BornForElijah how about you spell RIGHT correctly first?
@@LostInMyOwnWorld I did you cant see ?
Honestly the entire show deserves better. Why can’t Chloe become a better person? Why can’t Marinette have flaws and a break? Why can’t Adrien have more screen-time? This show has so many flaws with some things. Hence why I didn’t watch Miracle Queen when it came out. Because I had a gut feeling it wasn’t gonna be that good. 😑
As someone who only watches the show to point and laugh at how ludicrously awful it is, I agree with every single word you said.
Thanks, dude!
Sephiroth who will win the fight cloud ( final fantasy ) or queen bee ( miraculous: ladybug & cat noir ) and why?
We might be getting some form of redemption if Zoe succeeds in helping her sister become better although I doubt it
I haven't watched season 4 yet because I'm still waiting for the english dub, but I highly doubt that they will ever give Chloe a redemption arc again because the creator of this show really hates his own 15 year old cartoon character so much for whatever reason.
@@eyelove_owlcity It’s out
Seeing how much Thomas hates her, unfortunately probably not unless one of the others step in
@@ducc0287 being loved by Zoe will not help until Chloé is genuinely an elitist bully.
Even then, it still feels kinda backwards. Chloe's idol and only friend she had a healthy relationship with couldn't spark change in her but a half sister she never knew she had will? I call bull. Sure, she could learn to love and respect others through her but, especially since Zoe's only meant to be around for a couple months, Chloe should have then needed the extra push from Ladybug and or Adrien. The current direction could have worked but Ladybug and Adrien needed to have a bigger impact on her. Those are people who's opinions she cares about, those are people she already loves, already respects. If your best friend told you they were in pain, wouldn't you be more able to help them out over a stranger who you'd only be able to console? If you know, love, and respect someone, they have a bigger impact on you, that's just kinda how brains work (you know how parents say they like pretty much everything their kid creates? They understand that their child values their thoughts. If the parent expresses disdain with say, drawing on the wall, the kid will usually stop doing it because they value their parent's wishes. If a stranger told them to stop drawing on a wall, the kid would be less inclined to listen to the person they don't know). You want to be the best version of you because you want these people to know you're worth their time and love.
I really don't understand hating your own characters. I've written characters that were genocidal psychopaths and destroyed worlds for profit. And I've loved them just as much as my protagonists.
I can't get behind the mentality that it would take to hate a character like Chloé. Not at all.
Maybe Chloe is just based on a childhood bully of Thomas.
I wrote a character who literally lied to her younger sister and forced the brother to lie to about her power potential out of pure jealousy and her ego,but I have her get redeemed because she realized she was wrong for it.I never hated her but I specifically wrote her to be unlikable but become a better person.Just because you want to make a character unlikable doesn’t mean you have to hate them
He based her of a school bully and didn't give her a redemption arc. OVER A DAMN BULLY! And he really let his fans down. He really is fucked up.
Personally, I think that the cast of ladybug his kind of bland they come off as really inconsistent sheep Chloe's one of the few people that have the defined character in the entire show that has many dimensions
Okay. not to sound uneducated or anything but, who's Cory? 😅
@@miss_chelles1338 never use speech to text
Don’t forget that ladybug is an hypocrite and in season 4 she gave all the miraculouses that hawkmoth knows their identity old holders and forgot about Chloe just because she “ Hates her “ and is JEALOUS. 👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻
that's how it is 😞
Overall the show has so much potential (and still does) however it falls flat in many areas
With Chloe they scrapped her development over a bias they had against her. Chloe had so much potential (and many other characters) however they threw it down the drain for a 'climactic' finale
In season 4 all they did was demonise her and make her a Disney tier villain by removing everything redeemable about her such as her friendship with Adrian or her appreciation for Sabrina.
I like Zoe but the problem with her is that she feels like a replacement more than her own character. It also was weird and kinda cruel when she was given the bee miraculous 2 EPISODES after she was introduced.
When Chloe sees the new queen bee miraculous holder shes just angry and not devastated that she lost something that she valued so much.
They wasted Chloe so much and so many other characters for no reason but incompetence
Agree with everything you said.👍🏾 it really is disappointing. 😔
This Show is such a Mess.
Wonder if they will entirely Remake it with their 'new' Knowledge;
some Brave Thing that RWBY should have done,
but they were not brave enough.
Bravery is needed here; this needs to be stopped and not go on directionless.
Otherwise it will literally be an RWBY-Clone.
They need to understand they made a Mess because
of Incompetence and also weird Mindsets and lacking Knowledge;
heck, some of the Authors even have
weird Bias against Blondes, apparently. WTF?
Start over.
@@slevinchannel7589 Another issue I have is that because of them making Chloe out to be irredeemable there doing things that are very out of character for he to push this narrative that's shes evil.
For example her ending her friendship was really out of character for her to do as shown in despair bear when she was called out on her actions an Adrian ended their friendship she threw a party and was trying to be nice towards others. It showed that she was desperate to maintain her relationship and how much she valued it and she ended it, that was out of character for her. Not realising ending their friendship was out of character was PURE INCOMPETENCE.
They could have used a better reason for her hating Zoe as well. They made a non-sympathetic reason for her hating Zoe, because she was hanging out with Marinette. They could have used a way more interesting reason as well, They could have made her reason for hating her jealousy for being able to go to NY when she was refused by her mother.
Its also out of character for her to treat Sabrina the way she has, whilst their relationship was toxic, it showed that Chloe truly cared about Sabrina and valued her friendship however now their making their relationship unrealistically toxic.
The show has two problems
INCOMPETENCE AND INCONSISTENCIES
yes I completely agree with you, they should start over and acknowledge the flaws of the writing
@HypnoSpace Outlaw same
@@kawaiiblossom8278 I definitely agree with the part where she feels like a replacement more then an actual character, ever since Zoe came it’s like Chloe has been so different all her redemption went away and everything was like absorbed in Zoe. And the sad part is how this is true is because Zoe has actually never got a episode about her until she came or until she got the miraculous now she’s just the character just to be there for no reason even when we don’t really need her a “holder” not a character Zoe is so much better being just a character then a holder if anything if she could of got another miraculous Zoe could of got the butterfly if hawk moth was defeated but I get it, Zag writers are just ruining the show.
here from the newest episode, cannot put into words how much potential they wasted
Thanks for telling me. Now i can safely tell myself to never watch the new episodes because i highly doubt that it gets progressively better. Especially after they wasted the most complex and interesting character they have in the show: Chlóe!
@@eyelove_owlcity I only watch them if I want to screenshot characters for redesigning (I like the designs I just make them a bit less bland…
I think ). But even then I watch the show on mute Becuase all I think when listening is wasted potential and how much Marinette’s character needs rewriting
This new Mary Sue..... Zoe! Oh my God! She's nice alright.........But she feels like replacement.
Sidenote:And I also HATE how this Mary Sue has the same name as the awesome Aunt Zoe/Ms.Z from Spy Squad
Here is what I like about miracle queen. Miracle queen is Chloe’s chat blanc. This is the episode where she snaps. She kept getting rejected by ladybug and had to lose any opportunity to be queen bee, the one good thing in her life, her opportunity to be good. She snapped like Adrien did or is going to be. Dang, the more I watch your videos, the more parallels I see with these two.
Hell just like Adrien even Chloe has shown she goes through so much crap in her personal life and could have been taught to be more responsible with her miraculous but no Thomas hate boner for her ruined her writing just like Chat’s. Don’t get me wrong Vesperia is fine but “Buzz off” was literally made to be said by such a sassy and pampered queen bee, it fit to well to be give away to Zoe just because of Thomas. Once again a waste, zoe could have been her own hero too like she deserves but nope she’s now discount queen bee. Both deserve better. Smh.
Thomas claims “She represents people who won’t and don’t change” that’s like saying people shouldn’t be given a chance or if you were a bad person in the past and made mistakes you can’t be redeemed or can’t try better. Her wasted potential was a horrible lesson for a show meant for being a “Show for Young girls.”
Her pouring out her heart tearfully made me so happy and teary eyed, I love her as Queen bee and the fact that Lila would choose to be on the side of evil proves that Chloe wouldn’t, she has shown she truly doesn’t want to be evil, she’s just broken and abused like Adrien. Even marionette does more fucked up stuff and is genuinely just as bad in a more creepy way than Chloe and she’s our protagonist. I agree with all your points, Chloe deserved better and I hope the writers can figure it out one day. 🙏
Also she’s one of the only people who actually resisted hawk moth because she learned that’s what superhero’s do. She showed how much she learned and how good she can be. Only a truly good person can resist hawk moths temptation. It was a different writer who gave her justice, Thomas please learn from them and even if you hate the character, do it for the young girls, do it for the fans, do it for the characters you’ve created. Show that even when it’s a mother instead of a father abusing you doesn’t mean you have to be the same. People CAN change with love and compassion, don’t teach people who haven’t been loved and been neglected that they’ll never good good because of it. Please, that’s all we ask.
@@jackphoto8816 More fucked up stuff? Does Marinette purposely endanger dozens of innocent lives, antagonize her entire class, bully someone for 4 years, repeatedly abuse her father's position of power and try to destroy people's careers?
I would have hated Zoe less if she became her own hero
@@celestialfang4370 did you forget how many akumas Marinette/ladybug caused??? Like Marinette literally stalks Adrien like what
@@47ratsinahoodie same
Even the Bee Miraculous was especially designed for Chloé to be its user, NOT ZOE.
No.Chloe is my favorite superheroine and will always be. I wish the creator of the "Ladybug" series would reconsider and bring her back to the superhero team.
I totally agree! Chloe deserved so much better cuz she's just so interesting, complex, and very well fleshed out! I honestly consider her as my second most favorite character in Miraculous Ladybug. My most favorite character is obviously Adrien.
@@eyelove_owlcity well said.
@@eyelove_owlcity i hope Thomas Astruc can get Chloe Bourgeois back to being Queen Bee in the new season by correcting her mistake made in the final episodes of Season 3's "Miracle Queen".
@@gianpaolovillani6321 i hope so too. By the way, i truly hate the season finale of season 3. I thought it was so awful!
@@eyelove_owlcity I hate it too.
One good argument this one person had was that she wasn't redeeming for herself she was only doing so for Adrien because he told her that they cant be friends anymore. Because when your trying to change for someone/thing that isn't you it can end not well cuz you end up not knowing who you are anymore.
My counter argument would be that still could've pushed her more especially if Adrien bothered to be there for her more since he threatened her about breaking up with her.
The problem is that when Chloe started being rude and dishonest again Adrien DID NOT keep his promise of quitting: he smiled "she'll never change" and never scolded her for the train, the fake video... This behavior cannot be useful
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT welp! I honestly still think that Adrien should've done a better job to help her.
@@ANIMATIONLOVERBT yes I wish they explore more her relation with Adrien and see how he can be there for her. Also, if Adrien still decided to "break up" with her after that, it would have been more meaningful. Now, he just sounds like he judges her without trying to understand her. Which is out of character for him in my opinion.
@@nanalove3819 I think he understands but has no nerve to scold her drastically, nor to keep his promise to change his relationship with her
Adrien tiene 0 sentido.
Sabe lo que sufrió Chloe. Sin embargo la amenaza. Luego dice que nunca cambiará y lo acepta. Para después romper su amistad.
Also let's not forget she's aware of her behavior
Yep.
That how you know someone is mostly gonna change
i have a nice theory to think about but not cannon: what if chloe was the good person but was just misunderstood and marinette was the "bully"
Yeah that is a great theory 👌👍👏it's perfect
¿Qué no es así?
Believable theory
I feel like they could have made it so that Chloe was the one to use multiple miraculouses seeing as she was able to resist being akumatized
Yeah that is true 👍😄
When i was younger, i never noticed how bad it was written, i hope there is a new writer hired and makes Chloe better, who else agrees?
I hope it happens 🙋
Me
Yes THIS out of all the bad writing in the series this pisses me off the most, Chloe is not bad or horrible at least not completely and the fact that they took the one thing that make her grow as a character being queen bee being a real hero and grow allow her to grow no, Thomas piece of shit had to replace her with a random girl in season 4 give queen bee to a random girl is bs.
And that random girl is her half sister!
@@TheShadowChannel150 and honestly it doesn’t even count cause they only created her and made her her sister out of no where they never even hinted of her existence
@@sakurito55 exactly
@@sakurito55 Exactly technically Zoe wasn’t made to be her sister but just a replacement for the bee miraculous.
imagine. if the 2 sisters finally started to get along and Zoë assures chloe that she wont see chloe as a monster like everyone else does after what she did at the end of s3. So now chloe doesn't wanna lose her and then they get in a situation where ladybug had to give one of em a miraculous and she obviously chooses Zoe not just that she give her bee one and because of the situation she has to give it in front of Chloe. And chloe now affraid of losing her sister and only person who doesnt see her as a monster supports zoe even tho she hates it that zoe is now using bee miraculous. the ep ends with zoe saving the day and chloe being happy for her still have her attitude ocfrse. she waves zoe off with a moderate smile and then goes to her room closes the door and just breaks down crying on the ground showing how much she actually regrets her decision of being bad in last season and how much it actually effects her despite her not showing anything at all and ep ends with that wallpaper kinda thing where chloes is crying on ground with her back to us. soon after optigami, zoe becomes the only person (apart from ladybug and chat noir) who’s identity is secret from hawkmoth so ladybug decides to leave miraculous with her permanently cuz giving and taking would be risky for identity and chloe too keeps it a secret and sometimes tries to help zoe with powers as she has experience with it. Shes still resentful and doesnt like ladybug at all but she likes her sister. later near or at the end of season zoe is in bad condition and ladybug and other heros are in dire need of help so chloe once again becomes queen bee, helps everyone, works as a team while showing shes doing it for zoe not for ladybug. at that time, lila too would have been developed more as a villian and maybe she would also be in the fight helping hawkmoth, maybe she was akumatised but i would like to imagine that she would have some miraculous, maybe peacock one or other, the miraculous doesnt have to be one from ladybugs box, maybe it was from some other box as we know there are many miraculous boxes and maybe hawkmoth would have gotten his hands on one or atleast one miraculos for lila. Chloe would face off lila as queen bee and defeat her after a lot of struggle. it would be fun to see 2 characters who were initially evil. this will show that lila and chloe cannot be compared as chloe isnt actually evil. this image of chloe if compared to her season 1 chloe, would be completely or hugely opposite showing that she has grown as a person and character. meanwhile, lila, also chnaged but opposite of chloe, she grew to be more and more evil and sickening. although lila would grow more evil, this will still mean that she HAS grown as a character. I would like to make Lila as villian for chloe rather than for ladybug and otehr heros, as lila and chloe were similar at 1st and now are opposite. ladybug and other heros have hawkmoth and mayora to take care of. and chloe can be a hero in this senario while lila, the villain. (end the fight however you wish :) ) After all of that (remeber zoe was there for a few months only) so zoe passes the miraculous onto chloe, she initially denies but then accepts and ofc ladybug asks for it back but chloe refuses saying that she has no interest in power or miraculouses anymore but this is the only sign that theres still one person who believes in her, and its too important for her to just hand it back even tho ladybug is the guardian. she more or less becomes and anti hero she doesnt show up to help ladybug but she doesnt use anything for bad either. She only uses it sometimes to help herself or sabrina/ her family or other helpless pple when they are danger but she avoids other heros. ik its never gonna happen cuz the writter just straight out called her a bad and mean person but i really liked how she was changing in s2 so im still gonna like her in this way. you can add if you want and lemme know do you think writter did chloe justice by refusing to finish her arc or not. sry fir spellings .
I just read this comment, and all I got to say is.... you really should've been the writer. No joke, this is absolutely beautiful.
Can you please remake the season 3 please I would love too!🥺 It's okay if not (I said that bcuz your comment is literally better than season 3 of MLB)
@@iquitmlalongtimeago3616 i would live ti make the entire show but majority people wont like it. if i were to make the show i would nerf down ladybug a little and make her realistic character while also adding real motives for her and consequences of her actions. but people love ladybug and wont like her to be weak as chatnoir.
this!!! with the season 4 and season 5 already being written and zoe being introduced, i reaally REALLY hope that they use zoe to help chloe redeem herself again
@@chorryflower yeah me too ✋🙂
A creator doesn’t equal writter when it comes to a cartoon there are a lot of different writters
I get your point, but i just wish they've something better for Chloe. I mean they made me respect Chloe. If they want Chloe to be a good character, then they should stick with that idea. If they want Chloe to be an irredeemable bad character, then they should stick with that idea. They need to be consistent with their ideas and commitments. If they're just gonna keep on constantly changing their minds, then this show will most definitely not end well.
@@eyelove_owlcity ok I get it it's kinda the same thing with endeavor from my heroe on the other hand the story wants to have a redemption where the abuser owns up to his mistakes and becomes a better person and on the other the story just wants us to feel sorry for him and have a stupid he was his son all along theory
I don't understand how someone could hate their own character.
As a writer, you love all your characters, even the villains. Sure, you love some characters more than others, but you don't HATE your own character. Actually no, you can hate a character if you make them to be hated (such as a character who's a r*pist or an abuser). However, how can you hate a character so much for being evil and call them irredeemable AFTER you give that character a deep backstory, an interesting personality, and MANY FUCKING REDEMPTION OPPORTUNITIES?!?? HOW??! WHY?!? TELL ME WHYYY?!??
Chloe deserves a lot better.
I once read someone's comment suggesting that Chloe might be based on a bully of Thomas.
So maybe he really hates Chloe because to him, she's not a character, but his old bully. And he makes her the bad guy just to spite his bully.
I think Chloe got a redemption arc because during the season Thomas took a break and another writer took up the job
@@Aego384 and he's 45 or something
Can we also talk about how they waste chat now? Like he gets no more screen time and is usually the first caught, plus ladybug is too op compared to him. They twist the story to basically replace him in situations, they dumb down and make the others smarter just so he cant be on screen
Yes totally I mean it's Miraculous: The Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir. They should give him what he deserves
They keep making Marinette feel like a Mary Sue.
You kinda forgot to address the episode "Miraculer", because they actually showed more of Chloe's character redemption, she can no longer be Queen Bee, Chloe accepted that and gave her Miraculous. This was the episode before Queen Wasp btw
Personally I find it coherant that Chloe became the villain by the end of season 3. It happened on different shows, the supposed bad guy who wants to be good but no one gives him or her a chance and revert back to its old ways. When you are used to act a certain way you might be tempted to ge back to it and I think it was realistic. Morever Ladybug did play a part because she never took the time to explain to Chloe why she could not be Queen Be anymore and inadvertedly string her along. I wanted to see Chloe revert back as the villain because I think the feeling of neglect Ladybug inflict her was kinda similar to what her mother put her through and I wanted to see Ladybug take part of the responsability for Chloe's transformation. And I thought it was a great way to make her grow as a person. Cat noir told her multiple times to explain things to Chloe but she endlessy delayed it (she had other things to do I get it but still). For me it was well played, BUT big but, I tought it was part of her redemption arc (a redemtion arc is rarely someone who goes from bad to good without being tempted to go back to her old ways), that atfer choosing her darker path she would then realize that is was not what she wanted, but after watching the special episode and the beginning of season 4 that's when I realised that the writer had no intention to redeem her at all. You can't put a character throughout all thoses changes and revert her back exactly the way she was in season 1. That is crapy writing right there. That's when I realised that they truly wasted Chloe's character.
ESTOOOO
What I love about the scenes between cat noir and Chloe is that while he has his issues with Chloe as Adrien, he stocks by her and speaks to her with empathy and respect and does not let his biases get in the way when he transforms into Cat noir. This proves your point about how he is the only one who sees the good in her and understands her hardships.
Marionette does ket her biases in the way and denies it. Yes, people are flawed, but Marionette feels she does nothing wrong when she hurts chloe.
I love marionette, but she frustrates me when it comes to adrien, catnoir, and chloe. She needs to treat them better.
You forgot the way Marinette treated Kagami for being close to Adrien.
I love Chloe. I really do. She’s honestly the only reason why I like the show, and I really want her to get more character development! That’s if the writers actually start to OPEN THEIR EYES
Chloe is a “bad” person, but a great character
Well not atleast the best character, not a great one but the only good one in my opinion.
S4 episode 1 2 3 6 and 8 are available as English dub right now.
What about 4 and 7?
@@eyelove_owlcity Their English dub are on the way. Especially episode 4. But you can watch first three episodes first right now.
@@emircanozad914 alright then
Please... I need fanfic recommendations that fix Chloe’s character. Because you clearly can’t depend on the show’s writers to give a satisfying story.
Share them to me when you find one-
Ik AO3 has the best ones...
@@amalajohn1127 where are their stories??
The writers should see this, but not Thomas, cuz he is irredeemable but the other writers are reedemable
13:38 dude it’s obvious that he didn’t do chloes redemption thing and that it was probably some other person that did it
Thomas is like the George Lukas of MLB. He thinks he knows better than everyone else because they're HIS characters. Chloe's arc gave me whiplash.
Nah George lukas is nothing like Thomas. George is actually a good person and takes criticism
No, George Lucas wouldn’t bash his fans lol Sure he was flawless, but he knew how to treat his characters respectfully and respond to criticism.
So no, Thomas is not the George Lucas of MLB. Thomas Ass-truck is the Kathleen Kennedy or Rian Johnson of Miraculous Ladybug!
honestly zoe and chloe would be amazing main charec`ters better than marinette
zoe is a sweet charecter that had a negleting mom and no dad but yet is kind
chloe has a valid reason for being mean and is slowly redeeming herself
marinette uses her powers for irresponsible reasons and adrien we can keep him ig he has good story but is just blind af
Poor Chloe was in tears when she was told she's exceptional only because it's her mother
Yeah that is painful 😢💔
You should seen Andre, Gabriel and Felix got redemption arc
Frick Thomas, I want Chloe to have a redemption arc.
She’s not evil, she’s hurt and trying to live up to her mother’s expectations.(explaining not justification) She can and *was going to* be redeemed.
Oh my god I never realized that the animator guy was a self insert, a dude who was throwing a hissy fit because he wasn’t getting all the recognition at the premier of a cartoon.
*Spoilers* There's 2 types of writers.
I like how Horikoshi made Deku want to save Shigaraki even though the other characters said Shigi was irredeemable (MHA) while Thomas says she's irredeemable because she acts like a spoiled brat. Like w h a t?
I think Thomas should learn from Horikoshi and One (mangaka's of MHA and One Punch Man) Because they are great Superhero story writers.
Pacifica Northwest from Gravity Falls was a spoiled brat and she was redeemed.
Diamond Tiara from MLP was a spoiled brat too and she was redeemed.
Who says spoiled brats can't be redeemed?
@@Aego384 I know right?
Mha is a awesome
Hating a character that you created is a writer's sin.
"Maybe she will get redemption arc in season 5"
...
Hes ganna be pissed
my favorites so far is chloe and adrian for having a good backstory, character, goal and struggles.
Mariennete didnt even get to that level. so dissing chloe is unforgivable to be honest
My theory
Between the seasons The writer got sick so he hired another writer . That writer saw how Chloe behaves so decided to change it up a bit when the old writer was back he just saw the end and continued what he was doing
The show did Chloe so dirty they even switched her out with Zoe I can't 🔨🏃
Don't forget that Lie-la was a helping hand with Hawk moth, and Marinette remember Adrien was on a date and that also somewhat got Chloe akumatized as well.
Why throw a party for Queen Bee, making her true identity even more notorious, if you don't want her identity to be known?
You know who I hate more than Chloe?
Zoe.
It's a cheap swing at Chloe.
Chloe is easy on the eyes and has a character.
Zoe is just bland I have no idea what her character is suppose to be except a replacement for a character that is hated by writers.
That’s what I thought too I felt kinda sorry for Chloe when her miraculous was not only taken away but was given to her half sister who she hates, it felt like a stab in the back and if got worse when Chloe became Queen Banana and Zoe was saying she was the better Queen Bee right to her face. I know it was to distract her but idk for some reason for me that was a dick move
Oh! And get this; the part when Zoe tells Chloe “You may hate me but I love you. And always will even if the whole world hates you.” Sounded like she just gave her a backhanded compliment.
And don´t you dare forget that (at her best) she was the only person able to resist an akuma (besides Marinette, but I think that was in a later episode). And the reason Chloe did it was because of pure loyalty.
Chloe was my absolute FAVORITE character, she was the character I was routing for her even though the show intended for you to rout for the main character Marinette (tbh I hate Mari her whole personality is liking Adrien), she’s been akumatized meany times, her mother neglected her AND her classmates hate her, and why do they hate her? Because she’s somewhat mean, like bro, can’t you just stand there, wait for a second and tell yourself : “ Why even IS she mean? Maybe because she was RAISED THAT WAY?”
She had the most personality out of all the characters, a backstory, a reason for all her actions, MULTIPLE REDEMPTIONS, yet THEY JUST THREW HER OUT THE WINDOW?! Without Chloe miraculous ladybug will never be the same again, it should’ve been Lie-la that got removed
Why does Thomas pick Chloe as the irredeemable one when Lila is right there? Oh I know, because apparently Chloe represents his bully back then? Like I mean, you can redeem Chloe to show the bully that you can be a good person if you try. But no instead let's teach kids that if they ever see a bully, it means they are irredeemable and always be bully for the rest of their life.
Great lesson for everyone :)
Chloe Bourgeois deserved so much better. She was by far the most interesting character in the show, and they completely threw her under the bus. I'm so sorry they did you dirty Chloe 😔
TBH, I wouldn't mind Chloe not getting a redemption arc if Lila's role didn't become redundant and the show didn't go out of it's way to redeem every major male villain, even when they're worse than Chloe.
It should also be noted why Thomas allegedly canceled her redemption, that being she was based off a bully of his in school. A reason which not only contradicts the message of Miraculous, but the superhero genre in general. In most modern superhero series villains are at worst misguided; and if we take some of his other comments into consideration he looks out of touch at best. He says it's a show for kids but by doing this he sets a horrible example to kids, that if someone is bullying you that they are an irredeemable a-hole in which your only option is to ignore instead of trying to help make them better.
Bruh. Chloe's family(except zoe, its just attempt to revive chloe, and its sucks) is much more developed than the rest of the show, but again, its all wasted
It was just bad writing...
The problem wasn't that Cloe had a "fallback", but how they framed it.
Marionette wasn't giving her the chance to help because of her obsession with Adrian. They should have put that in fokus. It would have been way more intessting to see how Marionettes flaws have an impact on other characters.
How do you even explain Zoe becoming queen bee in s4 which I haven’t watched but know she is for some reason Chloe is my favorite character cause I find her funny but that’s just not okay for me cause your giving HER SISTER THE MIRACULOUS like girl no, no, it’s like that’s not okay she wanted to actually show someone she’s good like girl stop
The only reason Zoe exists is to piss of people and to show that chloe is in fact 'irredeemable '
out of all the people it had to be zoe
@@brocken4325 Seriously, Marinette hasn't even known her for a month!
@@3rebella EXACTLY! I swear all the redemption chloé could’ve had just went to zoé for no reason whatsoever
Didn't he base Chloe off a bully he knew or something? Regardless, I find it ironic how he hates Chloe yet he gave her some of the best character development (before throwing it away).
she could have had a beautiful redemption arc that honestly could have followed a similar route as bakugou from bnha, some of the most beloved characters are ones that have gone through their own personal journeys like zuko, catra, any steven universe villain, (all children's shows) etc. but this show is just telling its audience that people can't change, and that's not just with chole it's with everyone. Every time marinette seems like she is moving on the next episode she is still creepy.
Now that I think about it…
Chloe deserves her own show! She deserves to be Queen Bee again!
Oh boy. You ain't gonna like what they did to Chloe in seasons 4 and 5.
"Every sentient being deserves an opportunity for redemption, without it all hope will be lost"
- Optimus Prime -
The simplest solution wouldve been to give Chloe a different miraculous so she can still be on the heroes side but as a new superhero
There are at least 8 other unclaimed miraculous at the time that ladybug couldve given her a different one instead of the bee
chloes wasted potential is just one of those things I will never get over.
yeah
Chloe is becoming Sasuke Uchiha. (Pre Shippuden.)
I swear there are actually some good writers in Miraculous, which is why Chloe has a redemption arc, those writers actually want Chloe to be a good writing character, but Thomas was like ”No no I hate Chloe, she can never be good” and obviously the writers can't do anything against the producer, it is his show :/ and the writers just give up and fuck season 4🤷♀️
Chloe: ***just got told an awful thing by her mother***
The background music: 🤪😍😋😚𝙞𝙢 𝙖 𝘾𝙧𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙝𝙚𝙖𝙙😝🤪💖✨
I’m very sad that Chloe got wasted because Thomas Assh*le hates her :{
💔
The writers during season 2 made Chloe redeemable many times which was a great move but then Thomas-Dick-WAD decided to retcon her character redemption arcs entirely to keep his own original vision intact when he already had Lila for that! It’s like he hates to make changes to his characters that would make them better, and not wanting to put his original character concept to a different character! :/
In terms of making a character, it’s important to make some sacrifices to make the characters better overtime, and with those early character concepts you pass them to a different character.
Like let’s take Pixar’s very first Animated movie Toy Story (1995) for an important example:
When Toy Story was in production, John Lassater and his team went through lots of changes in production making a Tin Toy Christmas Special but decided change things drastically like with the early concept of Woody the cowboy, replacing that ventriloquist dummy with a cowboy doll and replacing Tin Toy with a Spaceman known as Buzz Lightyear. Out of the two characters, Woody was actually the most complicated character to get right, because that idiotic Disney Chairman executive Jeffrey Katzenberg intended Woody to be edgy and a complete douche bag that makes you want to punch him in the face shown in that Black Friday Reel, everyone including John Lassater and the other Disney executives hated that idea because it wasn’t Pixar’s movie anymore, and was not the story John Lassater set out to make, and Disney forced them to shut production down, but they were not about to let that happen. In 2 weeks, the team had to change the story and the characters a lot and make it the movie we all love today, along with Woody being a likable character. 💞
And then when Toy Story 3 was production, they looked back at the early character concept for Woody who was edgy and a villain, they decided to give that kind of character to Toy Story 3’s main villain, Lotso Hugging Bear.
That’s how you change characters, but for the better!
Thomas Ass-h*le with MLB on the other hand, he’s so stupid that he doesn’t want pass that early concept of Chloe where she’s an irredeemable character to Lila, who was literally irredeemable throughout the show!
He’s like *“NO!! F#% THAT!! I CAN DO A CARTOON HOWEVER I FEEL LIKE IT!!”* -_-
coming back to this after season 5...... they ruined her fr she had so much potential
I love that you mentioned Pacifica Northwest from Gravity Falls, because with Pacifica we met her as the stereotypical rich, mean girl who is rude to our mains, especially Mabel, and she stays like that until the golf episode thing with the weird golfball people, where at the end we see her actually improve as a character. Then, in The Mystery of Northwest Mansion, we see her parents and that they seem to not care about Pacifica, but the image of Pacifica. Her mother also complains about her dress, and not caring that her daughter likes the dress. Then, when Dipper tells her that she's just like her family, you can tell that the realization and hurt hit her all at once. Then, when she sees everyone as wooden statues, especially Dipper, she walks over to the lever to open thw gates. And when her father tries to ring his bell to get her to join thwm in their bunker, she waits for a moment, then she does it anyways. This turns everyone back to normal, and the townsfolk stream through the doors and crash into the fancy rich people party. Then, we see the beautiful scene where Dipper says "Hey, look what we're standing on" with it being the carpet she refused to touch earlier on. Instead of freaking out, she smiles, and gets more mess on it. After that episode, you actually start to like her. Character development, something the writers clearly need to learn how to do.
chloe: Hey maybey i can get a redemtion arc?
thomas: WTH abselutly not you have to be unredemable!
chloe: fine *crys and runs away*
I think they either should have :
-made a hero to villain plot
-made a villain to hero plot
But villain to hero to villain again... It just seems like a waste of time.
Cyrus:every character In miraculous ladybug is a waste
Welp he's not wrong
I used to see her as the typical mean rich girl. But by now she not only became my favorite, she also turned out to be the most realistic character in the series (before she got turned evil again for no reason). Chloé is my dear queen bee and bad writing will not ruin that.
This was one of the reasons of why i dropped the show, that and how Marinette was becoming an awful character but everyone around her was cheering and pushing her to be like that, i really want to see her redemption and character growth but they just ruined that out of pity because she was becoming more popular than Marinette, that's awful, it's like that thing that happens on Star vs the forces of evil
imagine if in Avatar, the writers ruin Zuko's character development just because people were liking him more than Aang
Chloe was the only character who was keeping the show interesting.
The other characters are literally nothing.
Mari Sue ( Marinette ) a Stalker Psychopath and she is treated like a goddess.
Adrien ( Chat Noir ) the production say is a Main protagonist is a mere a comic relief as Chat Noir and a love interest for Mari sue as Adrien and a mistreated character.
Slenderman ( Gabriel ) someone who make Psychological terrorism and commit and imprecise numbers of Crimes, is treated as a Hero.
Chloe a child who suffer of mother abandoning and coping the mother who always forget her name because she believe if she act like her mother maybe her mother will notice her.
For her creator she is like Hitler
Thomas: Mean People cannot be a superhero/Miraculous Holders.
Iron Man, Batman, Doctor Fate, Aquaman and other mean superheroes: Are we a joke to you?
Marinette?
@@ClaudetteVioletta No. Thomas means Chloe when explained why Chloe was stripped of her Bee Miraculous and her overall redemption arc.
Jesus. Thomas is definitely projecting here.