Could You Be Sucked Into a Cult? (Amanda Montell Interview)
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- Опубліковано 20 лис 2021
- --Amanda Montell, linguist, co-host of the podcast Sounds Like A Cult, and author of the book "Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism," joins David to discuss cults, indoctrination, brainwashing, and more. Get the book: amzn.to/3wOT6CK
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Broadcast on November 16, 2021
#davidpakmanshow #amandamontell #cults
A cult expert has said if you don't learn to control your mind, someone will do it for you .
We direly need to teach “Critical Thinking & Rational Skepticism”, “Financial Literacy & Wealth Development ”, and “Practical Ethics & Citizenship” as required courses in all high schools.
Teaching critical thinking is definitely a good idea, but you could expect a lot of pushback. Keep in mind all religions are a cult and critical thinking leads people away from religion. Evangelical leaders have known this for years and they blame liberal colleges so naturally they are creating their own colleges like PragerU.
With that said, breaking free from a cult is a lot like breaking free from a religion. First, you need to understand the concepts that support the mega-belief then you can dismantle them one by one. Similar to the way Evid3nc3 explains it in The God Concept: ua-cam.com/video/12rP8ybp13s/v-deo.html
Where I live in Southern CA, these three subject matters are already being taught. One day, I met a teacher where I live and that teacher specialized in these specifics. And was teaching at the grade school level. I think she had mentioned grades 7 through 12. Not really sure about the rest of the nation. But it is being offered here in a combination Middle Class/ Upper Class Community!
@@dsluvscavaliers6874 southern California
Lol doubt
Good luck finding qualified teachers that will do it for the low pay.
@@IronChefofPoon The Maga is all about Conspiracy Theories & Racism!
ALSO, Critical Thinking is very important at the University Level. If you even want to survive in the world...a continuous education is always important.
By the way... what is this school that you speak of? I have never heard of it.
When I worked in Aerospace... it was like interfacing with some of the most well educated people on this planet.
My father went to school most of his life. He would tell me once you stop learning and you believe you have no need to learn anymore...that's when a person will definitely stagnate in their life.
My Grandmother, back in the 1800s knew how important educating oneself was always very important. As a matter of fact, she earned college degree in English Literate and was an accomplished Poet & Short Story Writer.
I believe both my Father & Grandmother would disagree with you when you say that one study in one realm would cancel out the other because of the different lines of thinking...
Etc etc etc!@!
She made a fascinating point about why America is so much more religious than other wealthy, Western cultures: we have no viable social safety nets, so people cling to religion/cults out of fear. This made me consider that these right wing Evangelical churches are, deliberately or not, serving their own survival by having people vote against their interests, and even be hostile towards the idea of a society that doesn't let people free fall when the free market fails them.
Damn! You said what I have been saying for years.
Brilliant!
The US didn't feel the impact of the World Wars nearly as much as other western countries. The US didn't learn the lessons of trusting authoritarianism like much of the world.
@@1chumley1 That is an important point.
Excellent point!
I think it’s dangerous to assume you wouldn’t be susceptible to joining a cult. It’s not like cults openly advertise that they’re cults, the whole reason why cults work, is because people don’t believe they could fall prey to a cult, and they don’t believe they’re joining a cult. I think it’s unwise to assume you’re immune to cult recruitment.
I agree with you.
It reminds me of that meme where (I believe it’s) King of the Hill where two of the characters lean out of a car and say, “Hey are you all in the cult?” And two people on the side-walk say, “We’re a collective fellowship, not a cult.” The two guys in their car say, “Yep, this is it.”
It’s unwise to assume you’re immune to anything! People should always be careful about overestimating themselves.
AwfulMusik
I don’t know if I’d put it as “susceptible“ since most people who aren’t really susceptible may fall into the cult for whatever reason or a point in their lives that they feel they might need something, not realizing the sham, but figure it out pretty quickly that it’s not for them. The ones not susceptible leave either immediately, or when they figure out somethings not right soon enough.
That said, cults like NXIVM played upon the altruism of many of its followers, but there were many that just weren’t susceptible to it and tried to warn others who felt they weren’t being fair. The ones who weren’t susceptible were cut off completely
No, people fall into cults because they are looking for meaning in life. It's a simple need that can be exploited.
This pyramid scheme is plainly and clearly cult Hitleresc genocidal, yellowbellied bonespur was just a leech. Another bankruptcy since he left office.
One of the biggest red flags of a cult or cultish thinking is the demand that reason be sacrificed or rejected. I am reminded of Francisco Goya who once said, "The sleep of reason produces monsters," or Voltaire who said, "Those who can be convinced to believe absurdities can be convinced to commit atrocities."
Another book just came out that deals with the same issues is "How to Talk to a Science Denier" by Lee McIntyre, a professor at Boston University.
Yep!
Good quotes too.
My best friend is a Q cult member. I’ve known her for 45+ years, and she was, bar NONE, the most skeptical, suspicious person I have ever known. If I can ever have a logical conversation with her again, I’d like to find out how she fell for it. 😢
Sorry for your loss. I hope she can get some professional help. 🙏
Ask her what Q claims she has found to be false and why. I'm sure there are wacky claims she does not agree with, but if the answer to the "why" is always, "that Q's claim is forgery, he did not say it", I don't know what you could do with her. If the answer is something sensible, maybe you could work with those and try to find even better reasons to reject them. If answer is "those claims are stupid", how does she know why that claim is stupid when some other is not. You could also ask why, she thinks, other people believe that nonsense anyways. Maybe something fruitful could come that way? I haven't yet heard any claim I would not consider stupid. When there are enough stupid claims, why would you believe any of it? - - This the same thing right-wing or Con-servatives utilise when they disseminate total distrust on the opponents to their supporters. When you manage to (even falsely) convince them often enough that the opponent makes no sense, eventually they stop trusting it on any issue, like benefits of vaccination, which is actually medical issue, not a political one.
JFK Jr. might be able to talk some sense into her.
@@woowooNeedsFaith She and I are no longer on speaking terms. Her choice, not mine.
Being skepical is good to an extent. Where you seek hard data and facts to affirm your belief that something is true but being overly skeptical of everything is perhaps one of the main hallmarks of conspiratorial thinking.
This girl is amazing. She’s as well-spoken as anyone I’ve heard in a long while.
Yes I agree. She’s hella cute too!
True, but I see people as well-educated and well-spoken as she 24 hours per day on MSNBC, as well as other news sources.
Girl? She's 29 years old.
Completely agreed
@@50-50_Grind Right! If it was a man you would not say, "that boy is amazing."
Cults and religions are synonymous. Both are all about getting their followers to suspend their disbelief and critical thinking so they will slavishly follow a leader (or messiah), no matter how insane the mythology is.
They just switch their brains to OFF and let the cult leader do all the thinking and decision making for them.
I read your book
My Thetan levels are way too high to ever get sucked into a cult. All praise lord Xenu!
Goofball. ;)
Elron? Is that you? Lol
Hahaha!
Tom? Is that you? The power of $cientology compels me.
Greetings fellow traveler.
This was the interview where David realized his mustache was gaining a cult following so he shaved it.
David Pakman aka John Waters stache. 🤓✌️
It's the cult based around an explicit irrational believe in handsomeness of David's mustache. It also promotes a conspiracy theory that everyone who raises doubt in its appeal is a brainwashed right-wing troll.
He did? Finally, that thing is awful.
I think I'm always against staches without other facial hair. Unless you got a Freddie handlebar.
That stache is a distraction!!!
"Religion" in our developed country is a lucrative, tax-free career path.
"God" is the bait at the end of the fisherman's (cult leader's) hook. When the fish bites (when the acolyte commits), they're "hooked".
Eventually, the bait is removed leaving the fish's fate to the mercy of the fisherman.
Isn't Christianity the most successful cult of all time?
@@YoYo_Ma In the western world
@@sommerioslo And it wasn't in Europe and the rest of the world?
The definition of a cult is any religion. So most people have been sucked into a cult.
It's all whacky shit. I grew up around adults that genuinely believed they were eating a part of God's body and blood on Sundays lmao
Your painting with a wide brush. Your so cynical you assume any church is evil. There is lots of good churches. You just have to shop around.
@@TheDkeeler Name them
For me two red flags exists to identify if I am in a cultish group or not:
1) Lack of scrutiny
Can you criticise / post objective critique about the group itself, it's leader and/or it's decissions. If no you are in a cult.
2) Lack of Truth / Logic / Reason
Are the group members activly beeing lied to. And can you freely talk about those lies or are you suppressed for even trying. If you are suppressed or bullied for it you are in a cult.
After learning about the B.I.T.E. model, I've used it a number of times, but those are two good, easy checks.
To successfully use these criteria you have to already know what claims are lies, and what criticism is legitimate. If you're in that situation, you're already quite safe from being sucked into that cult.
So basically everyone who watches CNN and MSNBC.
@@caesium404 If you think "lefties" like CNN or MSNBC you could not be more wrong. Both channels are Corporate Channels.
But watching a channel is not being in a cult. Noone forcing you to watch it and they do not tell you what to do (well not directly anyway). So no not a cult.
And for now you can do 1. You can post critical statements there and you are not suppresses or punished for it. Not believe me read the comments there.
However on 2 you are partly right. They sometimes lie in order to push for a corporate agende since their advertisers and owners are corporations and extremly wealthy individuals.
On the other hand there are much worse channels out there who manage to put 2 or 3 lies into the same sentence.
If you want to know what a cult is: Following Trump is. You are extremly attacked if you say something bad about Trump and lies are more often than truths. Logical errors and lack of reasoning happening all over the place and calling them out brings you in big trouble.
Always be wary assuming “I would never do that,” or “That would never happen to me.” Self awareness can only be achieved through constant vigilance and the understanding of human nature.
@@Elatenl self awareness costs you nothing.
@@Elatenl Life itself is tiresome, but with the right attitude and with good principles, not just for oneself, but for all of humanity the effort would pay off. Take care of yourself and be well.
She made a good point about thought-terminating cliches, those are pretty rampant in American politics.
Another potential reason why cults tend to be more prolific in American society, I think, is in part due to the role personality plays in our elections rather than a focus on party platforms. This is also (I think) the primary reason why the U.S. is a 2 party system. Political parties, for all their faults, at least stand for a certain set of ideas, whereas voting for candidates largely on an individual basis elevates the representatives' personality over policy, retarding the development of sophisticated party systems. And so it should come as no surprise that people can fall prey to charismatic personalities in other areas of life. This was probably a bit of a tangent, but that's what I've taken from this.
Surprisingly enough, you'll find that certain Protestant denominations rotate their ministers for that same reason - preventing the tendency to place personality over message, see? In ours, it's about 6 years. Prevents the congregation from stagnating too.
'Another potential reason why cults tend to be more prolific in American society'
I'm not sure why you'd think that's the case, but they're not. The most famous secret societies started in Europe.
She also made a great point about religion having more impact in the US as opposed to other first world countries due to our lack of a social safety net.
@@InternetMameluq Recent studies show that there are about 5,000 cults in the US. The majority were created there. Many use altered religious beliefs as their core. I've certainly come accross far too many on the internet.
Wholeheartedly agree with the idea that in USA personality really sells to a lot of people not policies.
Being unable to accept a single criticism of the cult leader should be something you can use to make at least SOME people aware they're being cultish. No one on this planet is truly perfect.
Good point.
I have the same chart thing there as you with the red dot in the same area. got so many people making dumb comments about it, that I found it too much of a pain in the ass to keep using it.
Her talking about this made me think of the Jessup guy. Mormon that's in prison for sex with underage girls that he's married to. His followers are still in his cult and he's still leading them from prison. That's pretty hardcore belief.
The history of Mormonism is filled with pedophilia going back to Joseph Smith who changed their dogma to allow polygamy so he could take his underage niece as a second wife.
@@michaeldebellis4202 splinter cult from bigger cult. Mormonism is 100% a cult. No criticism and no dissent allowed. If you oppose the party line, you are excommunicated and shunned by your family and community. No transparency of historical facts or modern day operations.
"Could you be sucked into a Cult?" Giggity.
pastor john at Sunday school!
hahahaha giggity
I once had a GF that tried to get me into Scientology with bedroom favors.
@@bobalmighty2925 I doubt it lol but cool story
As an Australian, I’ve always been baffled by the US; some good, but mostly concerning. Her point about the lack of safety nets in the US makes things so much clearer now.
Your country is still messed up, but at least I understand why now.
It's about freedom. Everyone could be real safe if we just force everyone in a holding cell.
@@blinkskaterkc freedom? I am finding that there is a huge number of people, especially in the US, that have a VERY twisted and over simplistic even childlike (toddler) understanding of what ‘freedom’ actually is. Freedom to? Freedom from? Fear? Self actualisation? Choosing a career? Work? Not work? Poverty? War? Obligations and responsibilities? Respect? Hunger? Being locked up in jail? Following laws? Freedom to benefit from civilised society without participation and cooperation? Just stating ‘freedom’ shows a great deal of ignorance and understanding of society, history, and human needs IMO. Education has clearly failed.
@@gavtex1065 Ugh get over yourself, it's a simple definition. And you my little shrimp on da barbie are not livin it.
CominForYa simple? 🧐 simply delusional. America the land of the ‘free’ with the highest incarceration rate IN THE WORLD. That’s right the most locked up, no freedom, per capita country in the world bar none. Still, don’t get me wrong I still like America and most Americans, just pointing out there are some issues need addressing. We ALL have issues and we also have our own but lack of freedom is certainly not one of them. We do have some of the same political problems and are probably heading the same way with corporations having excessive influence over our politicians but the US is further down the road of toxic capitalism. Those corporations have you completely fooled about what freedom is. They certainly have freedom to screw over the average American that’s for sure. You guys deserve a better deal. Just sayin’.
@@gavtex1065 Nerd
Great interview. Cults are mass scale love bombing (early on movie type romance relationships that become heavily emotionally and psychology abusive, or grooming by pedophiles and predators.
Jordan Peterson has cult feels. His repetition and the way he totally changed how he speaks just to sound profound.
I grew up in the 70s and my church had anti cult workshops for all the teenagers. I didn't get approached by many cults but I did have to fend off dozens of evangelists in high school and college.
Jonestown was huge news back then and was actually pretty mainstream and liberal until it focused on the "coming race war"
Was there a 'whoosh' sound when the church programmed against cults?
@@Biomirth it was a Unitarian church 😁
Churches running anti cult programmes; how much thicker can irony get...
@@peterinbrat Well that there does make a whole lot of sense then!
We really need to stop calling conspiracy fanatics conspiracy "theorists." That term lends them an almost scholarly legitimacy they did not earn, and do not deserve, IMO.
Glad she used Keith Raniere as an example of cult leaders that dismiss legitimate concerns. When authoritative figures suggest or use duplicity to win hearts and minds, others that are totally believable are disregarded since they don’t know the cult leader’s in bad faith
Glad they mentioned Keith Raniere of the NXIVM cult, and Scientology here too!! Two of the most dangerous cults in recent decades.
When I was about 17 a girl that I had seen around town for years, approached me in a parking lot and invited me to a gathering that night. She was attractive so I went. I was greeted by a lot of really friendly, really happy people. We all sat on the floor together. They taught me a chant and sang some songs. They spoke of raising funds for their pilgrimage to California. That's when the cult alarm bells that I had been ignoring started sounding so loud I had to politely excuse myself. Never saw that girl around town again.
Thanks for this interview. Very refreshing to hear someone speak on this topic with such clear intelligence. Respect. Think I'll check out her book.
Yes you can. My son is a perfect example. He fell into the rabbit hole and never came out. Joined that qanon cult.
That's horrible :-(
As someone who has had 'short hair and long clothes' for many years Its great to watch this video. Its never going to be 'easy' being involved in any group that has a set of beliefs. Its rare to find someone that has the wisdom to be able to discriminate or put aside aspects they are not sure about to revisit later perhaps. Or to be testing openly and honestly the beliefs or teachings you encounter. Many 'spiritual' teachings sound great on paper but really need to tested carefully in owns own experience to see how vaild they are. Humour is also a hugely important part of a path or practice. If people laugh at themselves and others I find that a very healthy aspect. End of the day, if someones beliefs or practice increases their wisdom, compassion, consideration of others and if the deeper you become involved in it the more relaxed, open to others and peaceful you feel then most likely you are on a good wholesome path. In other words, if it genuine then the deeper your faith becomes the more open, peaceful and relaxed you should be becoming ! If the opposite is happening then its most likely just clinging strongly to something which is never wholesome or healthy as the stronger you grasp the less you are open to others views and beliefs
A good come-back to a suspected cult member is what Daniel Patrick Moynihan said once, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
Yes certain ppl are easy prey for cults. I don't believe just any person can fall victim.
Yes, evangelical Christians and spiritual new age type folks.
Wrong. Time and pressure. Everyone breaks.
Hi everyone, is being progressive mean that we are in a cult? I'm asking for a friend.
@@patmahinie5728 Look up the basic attributes of a cult and you'll find your answer.
@@patmahinie5728 Yes. It's a cult. ..... There.... You got someone to type out what you wanted so you can read it.... Do you feel witty, now?
This is a great interview. Interesting and helpful for me and my relationship with certain family members this time of year… as well as for this present time in our lives. I’ll be checking out Montell’s new book! Thank you, kind sir :)
I'm glad she mentioned wellness. Many years ago, I had a friend who became a hairdresser. She got involved with a particular brand who required people selling their hair products to go to a "resort" for training. She was kept up all night with ads over a loudspeaker. Food was limited to VERY low calories. No one was allowed to leave the "resort."
Don't be too attached to a group or party. Do not just go along with everything that group or party say.
I have a problem with coercion. It's a real thing. I guess a hiking culture would be good for me.
Someone who's a psychologist would be a person to interview as well.
Only if they had specific expertise in cult like manipulation which goes a lot deeper than your average therapist.
sociologist historian psychiatrist Plus trained exotcist. hard to find. a few in the Catholic Church. all needed skills. psychologist... the controller creature will just laugh off.
I might recommend bringing on Dr. John Dehlin (an excommunicated Mormon & clinical psychologist), the creator and producer of Mormon Stories Podcast. Many Utah, Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, and Arizona Mormons are so ultra-conservative that they call themselves "Deznat" (short for Deseret Nation, a "Mormon Nationalist" subcult within the umbrella of the cult of Trump). I want to make it clear that not all practicing Mormons are ultra-conservative; in fact, you will find more liberal and moderate Mormons in the major cities of California, Salt Lake City, and Ogden, Utah.
Mustache cult. Welcome home brother.
When I was twenty and WWII was barely 25 year past, I visited the museum at Dachau, Germany. I remember walking through the exhibits and wondering if I could have been sucked into what happened in Germany. After a lifetime of pondering this and the recent Trump administration I have concluded that I would not ever have been sucked into it. However I can Imagine the situation that that fact may not made a difference. This was the situation in pre-war Germany. Good people always have to speak out and resist. It is the only morally correct thing to do.
I accepted an invitation for a free dinner when I was 19. My "new friends" tried to brainwash me but luckily I realized it. They were Moonies. Their technique btw is to state their doctrine, and if you disagree, to restate it over and over until you stop objecting. When I realized what was going on, I stopped arguing and started hoping that I would make it out alive.
Effing brilliant. I love that you give such a great interview David. It is interviews like this that elevate the public discourse.
Lol I was in a cult. It's called the church.
Alot us were born into it. In fact most are.
@@meoff7602 yep and I chose to leave it.
family like a brotherhood.....many people crave it.
@@tekno4blood me too. Indoctrination didn't stick.
Thank you for this interveiw David and thank you Amanda for beinging us an amazing book.
Brilliant! love that Jordan Peterson was an example. "Sometimes the language being used is sometimes a feature and not a bug!" i so agree. it's like they try on purpose to make the average person listening to feel like they are saying something genius but it is to mess with you. Thinking you know something intelligent is being said , but you are just not getting it because it "sounds" intelligent. definition of Jordan Peterson for sure! "circular language" euphemisms.
Like Mark Twain said "It's easier to fool people then to convince them they have been fooled".
I love intelligent conversations.
I also hunger for this.....but hope for more debate than was provided here.....
I am definitely in the Pakman cult !
How to help the magites...
I've recently been targeted by a "religion" this year when they learned I've been going through cancer treatment. I'm an athiest, and am very aware of cults but even I am finding it harder and harder to keep a distance, especially once they learned where I live. When you're in a vulnerable position it can be so hard to resist sheer determination and numbers.
Cancer can't make me suddenly believe in God. That would be desperate, though understandable, fear of death and facing mortality, but pushing how my 4 kids (and 5th on the way) need support, and my favourite "what if something happens to you, they'll be alone!" I've been told more than twice recently,
I call them a cult because they don't actually state a specific religious denomination, have very obnoxious, and also predatory "here to help you" way, but also make sure to say at the start they'll "never force you to come to church"...oh and their "church" is an empty block of land on Google maps, and private residence irl
It's really evil actually. If you join a group which is cultish out of necessity and you got help for yourself. It binds you later even stronger to this group because you have a feeling of "debt" and "responsibility" to this group and are even more willing to overlook and forgive bad things.
@@AaronOkeanos Yes! Thats exactly right! Before I got pregnant I was going through chemo (now on hold until bub born in March) and because my husband had taken all the leave he had to look after me and the kids I needed help a couple times to get my older 2 to school and younger 2 into daycare on chemo days and that's where they got me. I feel like I owe them. And they keep bringing up what they did, "God put us in your path to help you when you need it the most...especially being able to help with your kids when there was nobody else" I know I shouldn't feel so guilty, but I do.
They also know my husband won't tolerate it so they stay away from him altogether
One of the best interviews / discussions I have seen on anything in a while. But particularly engaging because of my own background with a group that had many cult-like tendencies that she nailed one after another. Left that group many years ago but was not surprised to see many of them going right down the conspiracy highway for the last 18 months on virtually every popular talking point around COVID-19, political/election matters, etc. The crazy part is that most people in any cult, even those leading it, not only don't know that is what they are involved in, they very strongly believe they are doing/believing the good/right things and that if they persist, it will bring about good things for them or the world.
I think it is true...I've hung out with alot of "cults" but never stuck
I've never seen anything of this channel that I did not like/appreciate. This discussion, however, is one I will remember as a stand-out LIKE. Intelligent ideas, well explained and so badly needing to be understood. Special thanks on this one, David, Amanda Montell delivered some impressive goods. A prize guest for sure.
Cult I'd imagine comes from culture..so I hear what this woman says..we been trained to connect certain words with certain things but don't actually mean what we were taught they mean.. basically how would we describe followers of bad leaders?..or people that lack true understanding of equality are likely to become taken advantage of. Just like this woman said..thank u
This was a great topic to cover before folks talk with their loved ones on Thanksgiving. Thanks
Cults would have no grip on me. I don't believe in anything. I don't believe I even typed this and will deny it until the end of time...which I also don't believe in.
The cult of denial.
Amanda makes a great point when she points to aspects of organizational health (deception in recruiting, us/them language, information control, in-group rewards, etc...)
Whatever she’s a part of, I want in!
I was sucked into a cult as a socially vulnerable young teen. I was lured to a summer camp, the first time in my life that I was isolated from my family for a a long period. The indoctrination was persistent, punctuating our days from waking to lights out. Non compliant kids were isolated and shunned. Compliant ones were rewarded and celebrated. Few escaped the lure of social acceptance and recruitment was almost 100%.
I later led my childhood friend into this cult and he remained in its clutches until his death. This is one of the greatest regrets of my life.
After years of patient effort by friends and family and serious soul searching on my part, I was able to escape the illogical and poisonous ideology of Christianity and retake my spirit from it's dark depths.
Brilliant show. Great guest speaker. Thanks.
This young lady is a very intriguing thinker. Thank you David for having her on!
Brilliant episode David! Brilliant!
I think it has something to do with dopamine
SOOOOOO interesting! She is brillient and obviously knows her stuff and articulates it well. You're always well-matched with these knowledgeable guests, David, Sir!
I also appreciate such interviews, but hope for more debate.
Thats one of the most fascinating and interesting discussions i have seen. so good!
To not be sucked into a cult, it's not enough to ask "can I be", One also has to ask "could I have already been".
Cult..Culture. Even these 2 concepts have a lot in common. Our culture determines a lot of our believes and behaviors . In a cult that tendency is just exacerbated , in some cases to dangerous or at least completely illogical levels.
Incredible interview and points, speaks so much to our current society
I had a high school English teacher named Kult. But it was spelled with a K. Nobody followed him or drank kool-aid in class. Hey…wait…. Kool-Aid starts with a K!!!
“Pig Latin on the playground.” Ahhh, memories. ❤️
Tulsi sounded good enough years ago I wished she was old enough to run for president. Boy how the worm has turned.
wow how does someone that young end up being that smart, pretty impressive!!!
Right and she’s pretty 😍 reminds me of that quote from Malcolm x movie wife says “ I saw young man who was always serious it’s sad” something like that
amanda is a knockout and yes wise. an old soul. a very good soul, i'd say. : )
Very interesting guest! Great interview!
I totally believe that I could be tricked into joining a cult. I used to be in a religion that I now consider to be rather cult like.
I like to believe that I have morals that would prevent me from doing certain actions or behaviors, but I also recognize that me in the future is not the same as me now. Given the right justification in the right circumstance I could theoretically be convinced of anything.
You never know in the moment just how appalled you will be with yourself for having done something. I think that’s why horrible crap happens throughout history.
Wow, I always thought I was an easy target for a cult....turns out they wouldn't even want me.....
Good perspective.
I would like to add that while it is true that anyone *can* join a cult, and that there are misleading and unhelpful stereotypes about cult joiners, it is not true that anyone is equally likely to join. There are factors associated with higher and lower probability.
The most important one, or so I was told at the university history of religions course, is beeing between projects. Right after finishing school, or between jobs and so on. People who are in the middle of something large scale, like a corporate career, a new relationship, juggling childcare and a meaningful day job, or whose band is breaking out or whatever, those people don’t have space in their life to fit in also joining a cult. Because cults are high investment and high maintenance.
Actually, just like Amanda says, the word ”cult” is pretty vaguely defined. Mostly it’s a pejorative for beliefs and life styles we don’t like. It might be better to think of it in terms of high and low investment beliefs. For instance, in catholic countries most people go to church and so on, but a minority of people wants to go all in, to be a priest or a nun. They want a way of relating to their religion that makes it the dominating or only concern in their life. I don’t understand this kind of choice, I don’t agree with it, but I’m not going to invalidate anyone who makes it as a brainwashed cult joiner. This is obviously easier to understand and condone when it’s an expression of belief that you have some familiarity with. Again, the reason that I used joining a christian monastary as an example. When it is something that seems alien and weird, it’s much easier to interpret it as cultish. Hare Krisna get this a lot, for an example.
So another factor to consider is degrees of manipulation and control. Is this organization or faith systematically deceitful and manipulative when recruiting new adherents? Does it tolerate or punish doubt and dissent? Does it love bomb, or deprive food and sleep? Does it isolate from non member friends and family?
No way she’s any older than 14. Orates like a 35 year old PhD professor. My brain is a little overloaded at the moment.
Right it’s a shame really be that bright and young cuped up inside all day
She's 29. Looks a tiny bit younger, maybe 23. He she speaks like she's her age imo
Great interview! I want to read this book.
Never happen to me. I am smarter than that. I am so devoted to David and his show that nothing could pull me away from the real truth teller, sir David sir.
🤣
I tend to think of people who talk about conspiracies and such things as kooky. Sadly, some people really believe it.
When I worked in Tech, the one thing that felt VERY cultish is Agile/Scrum. Anyone else?
I'm a victim of the keyboard cult
Praise the algorithm! Give us thy daily content.
Honestly, I’m definitely in the ‘Bernie cult’ and I’m not ashamed about it lol 😂
As long as Bernie is not intentionally lying to you and you can criticise him constructivly without being thrown out everything is okay.
I would follow Bernie into the Mists of Avalon.
Than you're no different than trump cult members. A cult is never a good thing.
@@tracyhaverstick5672 the only difference is that this guy admits that he is in a cult, most trumpists wouldn't admit it.
@@iceverything2000 That's worse.
I've been trying to deal with anti-vaxxers (which are basically a cult at this point) and her comment about how they have to come back to reality on their own hit me pretty hard. I keep thinking being cool, rational and level-headed could change minds but they are so sucked into this fantasy land that no amount of facts are going to change it. It's heartbreaking.
Great guest. Very interesting.
Really good interview.
People already often don't hear what people say, they hear what they interpret what is said to mean, which is why good couple's counselors use a technique where each person speaks, then before the other person responds, they are asked what did you hear the first person say? You saw that with David's conversation with Destiny recently, Destiny kept interpretating & expanding on what he believes David meant or was doing. And the best cult leaders keep it super vague & allow their followers to create the mythos in their own mind, in a way that makes sense to themselves & the leader just confirms it & subtly guides them.
Excellent interview on an important topic.
wow! suberb interview thanks David and Amanda Montell. Very interesting.
More of this stuff, please.
Brilliant Video
Unless there's a cult of logic and rationality and letting the majority of trained experts guide me in each subject area, I can't be sucked into a cult.
how about a cult of illogical thinking / irrational thought, but it also has some attractive persons? then you'd be sucked in
David is right, Amanda’s findings are fascinating. I have always been interested in the power of words and the use of phrases and rhetorical devices, in commercials, political speeches and everyday language.
The more you pay attention to the use of language, the more you will realise the great impact of words on our thoughts. Everyone knows the term " un-American", but has it ever been defined? In fact, its emotional connotations seem to be enough to understand it.
Propagandists know exactly how to coin new words to influence their audience and how to use high-value terms like freedom. In anti-vaccine argumentations you will find slogans like " My freedom-my body-my choice", those slogans are never open for discussion and just play on emotions, successfully " convincing " people. Endlessly repeated and often abbreviated, they serve a political or personal purpose.
Apart from the linguistic aspect, there is a cultural one. Terms that go unquestioned contribute to establishing a certain mindset ( a cult?) Watching the current fights about mandates for masks and vaccines I asked myself whether our western philosophy of individualism is not part of the problem. Here in Europe, countries that uphold individual freedom have great difficulties in implementing general restrictions. We have to teach our children that freedom is not a blank check.
I’m looking forward to reading Amanda’s book. It should arrive tomorrow.
Thanks Ms. Montell for the cult info. Fascinating!
I guess it depends on the cult for me lol. There's no way I could believe in a religious cult, but political ones could be more susceptible for me.
My son’s best friend parents have gone the deep end! Every time we have a play date is a nightmare! I’m trying to stay positive and limit the conversations only about the kids but off course vaccinations came up and it was awful and awkward from then on. Now his best friend think my son is going to die because he got vaccinated!! The kid truly believes it! He’s terrified!
This was great 👍🏽. Ty
I think a person who's an independent thinker would most likely never take part in a cult-like situation.
It's easy to think that you think no-thoughts-barred. But that's paradoxical, if you think about it. Everyone has thought taboos that are not labeled as such, or not recognized at all. And some thoughts simply cannot be accessed by a long shot.
Love you and the videos. Keep em coming. I'm watching. Just not commenting Al the time. But definitely thumbs up. Later.
I grew up a protestant Christian, but as I grew to adulthood, I felt that the religion didn’t give me anything, so I started looking around for other alternatives. I looked at Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Children of God, Rosicrucians, none of them convinced me. I have since turned away from religion and found my very own set of beliefs that have nothing to do with religion as it is taught to us. Now , in my late 60s, I can safely say that I definitely would not be sucked into a cult.
there is no need for any type of religion, it's a disorder of the mind, it's fantasy and superstition. Go watch some Richard Dawkins etc those people break it down very logically. Religion is poison it really is.
@@fiddlestickzmuzik I fully agree. They say we need religion for morals etc., without religion we don’t have that. I sincerely don’t need a preacher, a Bible or any other religious book to tell me what my conscience and common sense is already telling me. Throughout the ages, religion has been one of the greatest causes for wars, beside land-ownership. In my opinion, the misuse of religion to control people is highly toxic. Just look at the religious extremists around the world, incl. the USA.
when people give up their own ability for independent thought, emprirical observation, or don't take just a little time to understand the connections between one thing or another or the consequences of one action on another, I think one is ripe to be attracted to cultism -- it's intellectual laziness - people want to belong "somewhere" so they let someone else do the thinking for them.
Conspiritualist .....excellent new word I learned just now.....from 11:45 I totally identified vis a vis the United States and the lack of social safety nets....
I'm in a beer cult cheers 😎
David - Almost anyone can be hypnotized. Even you. It takes a hypnotist with a wide range of techniques and willing to adjust what they do, to the person they are working with.
hypnosis is bs