How to rework cassette for improving chainline on mid drive ebikes
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- This video is applicable for basically all DIY mid drive electric bike conversions, but is particularly useful for BBSHD and BBS02. It allows you to keep the full range that your cassette provides while significantly improving the chainline. It also saves wear and tear on the chain because anyone doing this modification does not have to shift through as many gears.
NOTE: Please take care to adjust your low limit derailer screw after you make this modification, so it does not shift into where it would be expecting those extra sprockets to be!
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This is where to buy the Gearclamp used in this video www.gearclamp.com/
The cassette was a SunRace CSM98 bought on ebay
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This video courtesy of Lunacycle and the Electric Bike Forum
* lunacycle.com/
* electricbike.c...
* For the full guide on rearranging a cassette see the knowledge base article which explores how to do this without a gearclamp electricbike.c...
Great video, thank you. Converted a 9 speed down to 6. Used a mix of the plastic packing rings from old 8& 9 speed cassettes that I had lying around to give me the spacing behind the finished block. All works a treat now.
rather than using the gear clamp, you could have used the sprockets and spacers you removed by putting them on the inside. adjust the limit screw to suit.
The video mentions that, and the accompanying text documentation has in depth pictures and tutorials on how to do so. This method makes it look cleaner but both are valid. After having experience with both I think just rearranging them is more foolproof since the clamps can move around if you don't double them up, but man does it look nice with only the gears you want.
Is the smallest sprocket that goes in last required (even though you won't use it) in order to tighten the cassette assembly?
@@connicrow9463I believe so, yeah.
I designed a 7 speed cassette (with 9 speed spacings) from a mega-range 9 speed cassette (11-46t) and sacrifice 2 sprockets. Since I build street legal conversions based on the bbs02 (speed limit 25-27kph) I got rid of the 11 and 13t sprockets, since they lie outside the speed limit anyway. Instead I use Miche's custom sprockets (first and second position 15 and 19t) to finish the cassette giving me the following tooth pattern: 15-19-24-28-34-40-46t
along with a 36t chainring you get pretty much perfect speed coverage between 8.5 and 28kph, enabling you to climb very steep hills, have a great chainline and not be tempted to ride beyond legal speed limits and waste battery power :D
in order to lock the cassette onto the freehub body you need a centerlock lockring, since regular cassette lockrings will not fit on that 15t first sprocket from Miche
That's interesting, thanks for posting. What do you use for a shifter? 7 speed or can you adapt a 9 speed to managed 7 speed? Thanks.
@@Gusto0172 to be honest, if you want, you can remove the 11t cog from a 9 speed cassette and terminate it on th 13t cog with a washer and lockring. i have chosen to install a dished 42t chainring which sets the chain in the center of the cassette. that works best in my opinion.
Like I told my friend the other day, you can theorize, plan, build it in your head, but until you get the parts and actually start building you just don't know what you don't know. Thank you for this video! When I ordered my Mighty Mini I had no idea that it would push the chain so far outboard that I'd be stuck in the highest couple gears of my cassette, kinda defeating the purpose of the Mini, I can't wait to try this fix, thank you again!
I specifically watched this vid because I have a mighty mini that’s pushed my chain line way to far out. How did this work out for you?
@@lifeischeesy it did not work, the cassette only works well when it is in it's proper order
@@D3LV3 not true.
My exact problem. Howdid you fix it? I'd hate to go to the lekkie 42 tooth
@@colincampbell4261 I'm sure it depends on the cassette, the one i had did not wanna be in that split config
Great video. Sunrace made several lower gear, all steel versions. CSM980 instead of CSM98. They're held together the same way with Torx and pins. The CSM980 9AY is 11-42t, the 9AX 11-40 and the 9BX 12-40t. They also make 8 speeds, CSM680 in the same ratios for those that believe 8sp chains are stronger.
Got a 9AX from CRC, thanks for listing what they are! It only says it's an 11-40t. Matching this with a 42t lekkie chainring. I'm coming from a 36t in the back as my largest, expecting a massive torque boost.
Pretty sweet solution. You are basically turning your 9 speed cassette into a 6 speed cassette but with 9 speed indexing. Don't forget to adjust your limit screws on the derailleur so it does not move the chain off the cassette. It's bad news if your chain goes inward of the largest cog on your cassette. The low limit screw on the derailleur can prevent that from happening.
Is there a video that shows how to properly do this anywhere cuz I did this exact thing turn my night speed into a six-speed and it seemed good until I got stressed onto the chain and it was like skipping and jumping how do I fix this how do I adjust the derailleur
@@m1000black Adjusting a derailleur is straight forward and there are bunch of videos showing how to do it. The main concern for you is to set the high and low limits to prevent the derailleur from traveling too far. For example, if you are only using cog position 1-6 on your cassette, use the high limit screw to place the guide pulley directly over or slightly outward of the 1st cog (smallest). Then adjust the low limit screw to place the guide pully directly over the 6th cog (largest you are using). The limit screws limit the amount of travel your derailleur can move. This will make sure you don't overshoot the 6th cog onto the 7th cog which would be disastrous. Make sure the b-screw is set so there is about 5mm of distance between the 6th cog (largest) tooth and the guide pulley tooth. Once this is done, then you have to adjust the cable tension and barrel nut to set up the indexing properly. Shimano recommends shifting into a middle gear and then turn the barrel nut counter clockwise until the derailleur wants to shift into the next larger cog. Once it starts making noise like it wants to shift but can't, turn the barrel nut clockwise causing the derailleur to return to the smaller gear and the noise goes away, usually 5 clicks of the barrel nut. This might take a little adjusting but that's the basic idea. Also, on your 9 speed shifter, you'll only use shift position 4-9 on your shifter. Position 9 will be your smallest cog and position 4 will be your largest cog in the 6th position on your cassette. So start with the shifter in gear 9 and the derailleur on the 1st (smallest cog) and tighten the shift cable to your derailleur at this position to start your indexing procedure.
@@mtbbiker6401 thank you very much I appreciate your help my friend!!!
I have a old bike with no derailer and no shifter but has a 9 speed cassettte, . So my noob question is, if i turend it into a 6 speed cassette like show here, can i buy a 6 speed shifter and derailer?
@@diwanthegreat If you are turning your 9 speed cassette into a 6 speed cassette by rearranging or removing cogs, you'll need to use a 9 speed shifter and derailleur. 9 speed cassettes are indexed (spaced) differently than 7-8 speed cassettes. The chains are also different.
It's a shame you didn't show it shifting..
Great video, showed me everything I needed to know on how to improve my chain line which resulted in me being able to fix my chain coming off problem and be able to use the big gear for hill climbing.
Interesting video. I spent most of the afternoon trying something similar. I had a brainwave of using the sprockets that I didn't want at the back as spacers. It didnt work. I didn't hear you mentioning the B screw on the derailleur but I figured this was my problem because there wasnt enough space for the chain to glide clear of the largest sprocket which was now moved to the middle of the cassette; it was too close to the upper jockey wheel. Tried as I might it just wasn't working. After admitting defeat I put everything back as it was to at least get me to work and back tomorrow, the only difference was a new chain. I've just taken the bike around the block to see how she's riding and I don't know what's happened but it's working fine. I have the full spectrum of sprockets, the chain line is good and it's shifting perfectly. I don't see how it would make this much improvement but I have to put it down to the new chain.
It's a 9 speed microshift derailleur and the bottom bracket is 73mm.
I'm baffled 🤔
I’d really like to try this with the S.Archer 3 speed cassette free hub or what ever you call it.
Start with an 12 to 28 8 speed steel cassette and use 4 maybe 5 cogs. Or even 3 cogs and still have a 9 speed. I’m currently using a S.Archer 3 speed IGH. I like it a lot. I go over hill and dale in the dirt in 2nd gear mostly. With all the power and torque from the BBSH you just don’t need all those gears. I started out with a SRAM 991 cassette at about half life for a pedal bike. 5th gear was the last cog to go and rode it like a single speed for the last few days and had no real trouble. And I believe an 8 speed chain is a bit tougher than the 9.
While the IGH is still in good nic, I’m going to a 1/8 cog and KMC Kool single speed chain.
Thanks for sharing the vid. Useful for me as I've just built up a Norco BigFoot 2020 fat bike with a bbshd. The chainstays necessitate so many spacers to get the 40t chain ring cleared, kind of cancels out on any benefit of the offset chain ring really. Anyway, looking for options re cassettes with 7 or 8 speed so your information was super helpful. Cheers
Great video. Reduced my 8 speed to 6, which still leaves a pretty awkward chainline even with a perfectly positioned front chainring. But
Chain line doesn't matter
I didn't bother worrying about chainline since adding the motor meant I didn't use my 3 largest cogs anyway
After modification my derailleur hits the sprokets and doesn't allow them to rotate freely.
There's an adjustment screw on it to prevent that
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy I mean even at smallest cog
@@evdokmv do you have the cable tension generally dialed in
I wonder if can be that lucky with my Sgimano Cues 10sp cassete. Is it riveted or screwed?
Well done. There is possibility to save all sprockets. I did it on my scott nitrous with Bbs02b . Chain perfect lined up on 5th gear of 9. I put cheap 104bcd adaptor with 36t snail chainring flipped with 2mm spacers. I won 5mm. That was not enough... So i cut off 6mm of bottom bracket from drive side (my bb was 73mm) . I got 11mm total!!! So chainline moved from 7th gear to 5th (center).
Did you need to do anything to your derailleur for it to work properly? I have the same bike but can not for the life of me get it work properlly. Maybe my chain is to short?
Hello, how did you cut off 6mm from your drive side bottom bracket, and are there any issue with weakening the frame? Thanks
Yeah but what about the shifter ? We would limit the low gear screw but the shifter would want to put more cable tension to try to move it if rider tries lower gear. That would strain the cable/shifter and potentially distort the indexing if rider pushes hard. Any ideas on limiting the shifter too ? Thanks for the video
To be honest, I've read this comment like three times and I still don't know what you mean. All I can say is thousands of people have done this modification or the corollary modification of simply rearranging the cassette which is linked from the description. As long as the derailleur is tuned you should be fine, never heard of bad indexing with this
Thanks for this video! great tips
I don't like or trust the idea of those clamp spacers, you're better off using proper spacers behind the cluster so that you can get proper torque on the cassette lock ring. Also worth noting, don't use a plastic/nylon spacer against the cassette body shoulder(all the way inboard), it can pop up over the shoulder when the lock ring is tightened down. I would even avoid using aluminum, especially of the shoulder/step is not very pronounced. Boone makes a nice titanium one for $20, as well as aluminum in different widths. If you're on a budget and have the time and tools you could always scavenge an old worn cassette from a bikeshop(they are usually thrown away, anyways), and rob the spacers from it. I've also resorted to cutting down old cogs to make spacers in a pinch. Or you can go the cheap, laziest way and rearrange the cogs you want to use, putting the odd ones out in the most inboard position, and just limit them out. lol
Will this work with the Shimano deore m4100 cassette?
Great video, very informative and this is definitely what I need to do to my build to correct my chain line. Do they have a similar cassette that you used here but with a 42 tooth on the lowest gear? Thanks
I mean technically you could do that with just about any cassette. The question is whether or not you can do it easily. With the cassette in the video it's super easy and you don't have to break rivets or anything like that, and there's quite a few other cassettes out there too that are similar but I don't have model numbers for stuff like that. Tbf breaking a rivet is not super hard for anyone with a Dremel but this video pretty much just covers the basic concept.
excellent instructions. Does the chain ever jump when shifting?
What derailleur is that?
Thank you very much
You need the chain to be in line with the middle Gear.
Not the first gear
When it's in the last gear it will be well out of line.
In the middle is the best of both worlds.
High and low
When using a mid drive motor on a chain with intrusive chainstay the chain is already not centered on the middle gear, addressing that is the whole point of the video.
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy Thanks I am having problems with bad alignment in 1st gear, I mostly climb hills so this video has got me great alignment in that gear
I have a terrible problem with skipping on the bottom ( smallest) 3 gears. As soon as I go over 200W it sounds like a machine gun. Chain properly aligned, new chain and cassette... will not go over 35km without skipping. any ideas?
Tune the derailer?
Thanks for the video. Why can't I simply use cassette spacers instead of "gearclamps" to adjust the chainline? Wont the bigger gap between the newly rebuilt cassette cause shifting issues ?
Sure you can use spacers! You can also, depending on the cassette type, simply rearrange the ones that are on there and lock out the rest with the limit screw. The nice thing about the clamps and rearranging is it maintains the same gap as stock so there should not be shifting issues. Whether or not this would happen with cassette spacers may depend on the width of the spacer
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy Thanks you very much for your answer, much appreciated, have a nice day! I sub'd.
Can you put the sprocket you take out behind the sprocket you're going to use instead of gear clamps?
Yes rearranging them instead is a perfectly valid way of reworking the cassette, just may not look as clean. The link in the description goes over this method.
Are you able to adjust the derailment to accommodate less gears
All derailers have a couple screws on them, the high limit and low limit. If you need to lock it out of where the lowest gear would have been just tighten the low limit screw
What about the cassette set screw now mine is too long
Shouldn't affect much but you can replace the screw with a shorter one if you want
The Shimano HG (HyperGlide) and similar cassettes are designed so that adjacent sprockets interact with each other to make shifting gears up or down happen very smoothly. So it is not a good idea to remove any intermediate sprockets. Better to remove only sprockets from the big end or the little end. (Sometimes the smallest is also the lock nut, so it must remain. Just don't rely on being able to easily shift to or from it.)
I think spacers would be best to prevent any movement of the clamps. Only issue is that I'm not finding any spacers....
You would need just the right amount of spacers, or the clamp would still move a bit. I found just doubling up the clamp works fine, the second clamp acts as a jam nut.
Or you can just rearrange the cassette with the existing cogs and spacers, depending on the cassette. Doesn't look as pretty though.
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy yes I rearranged the cogs but it's ugly. Plus I'm not finding a way to limit my derailleur to just the 3 cogs. The L screw isn't going to be long enough to go from 9 cogs to 3 (I think). About the spacers it would take the function of the clamp so I would have the spacers between the cogs and the spokes. But hard to find a dozen 2mm or 3mm spacers out there. My problem with the clamp is that I'm afraid it might move around due to the pressures.
@@vapeurdepisse For the L screw it uses a standard machine bolt, I just bought a longer one from boltdepot.com. But yeah I get what you mean about it being ugly, and about it moving around. I had that issue when i used just one clamp instead of two.
What would be really nice is to have a machinist come up with some spacer or series of spacers that would exert force on the cassette, like a spring. then it would always sit where it needs to and could extend as much as needed
Hello I made this change.. But then you have to change the manettino,!? I had 11V and I did 9V but I could not adjust the gearbox even with the minor manettino. You in the video do not show when you change. That would have been helpful. Can you tell me that they manettino to the put,,, I s'è ai modified,
I don't understand what you mean by manettino
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy The lever on the handlebar that allows you to change gears derailleur speed.
I'm using trasletor 🇮🇹
@@Toby10 the indexing on the cassette will not change if you are simply reworking it. So you should not have to typically tune up the derailer but you can if you have to.
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy Eeeeeee difficult translation... Let's see if I understand correctly: you say that there is no need to change .... But the marches are now smaller. From 11 I have 9v derailleur always originated I have,. 11V. The handlebar lever, however, the 11v one even if I register well. It doesn't work. 2-3 more 🥴🥴 shooting steps left
@@Toby10 sorry i have no idea what you are trying to say. If you are having difficulty with the modifications i recommend taking it to your local bike shop
it didn't look that originally, was it causing issue?
Not really, this video was made for the purpose of documentation using a bike I had on hand. If I had something like a fatbike the original chainline would be much more dramatic but alas, no such luck
do you have to adjust anything on derailur
Less cable tension so that the derailleur cannot pull the chain behind the cassette.
You may also need to adjust the lower limit screw but start with adjusting cable tension and see where that gets you.
@@justin169169 thank you
Can I make cassette 11-13-30-36-40-46?
I’ afraid for the jump 13-30.
Did you ever try it? 100%+ jump in ratio seems like it would cause shifting issues.
Can you comment on how shifting performance is affected by having bigger jumps in the cog ratios?
That's an interesting question. The key is common sense, you don't want it to jump from like 14t to 42t obviously, but smaller jumps is no problem. You can always swap it around until you find what works best for you but generally speaking if all you are doing is taking out say 3rd, 5th and 7th should be fine and even just that change would make a big difference in chainline
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy 15 to 21t seem reasonable? That's about a 40% jump compared to 17-20% stock.
@@scotth5503 yes that should be fine
Would a single speed chain work? I'm thinking if adding custom spacing between the cassette rings and widening the rear derailleur to fit a single speed chain (I assume more material means I can handle more watts [3kw?] without damage or going longer in between chain swaps)
It won't shift well like that. The shifter expects a certain width between each cog and you are unlikely to get that just slapping multiple single speed cogs together
fuzzyfriendlydoggy I see that, a friction index shifter should work no?
Cassette is not worn down by load. It's worn by skipping and worn chain. And better derailleur is better than some old crap
Have you ever done just 2 or 3 gears lol. Like a 42T then 20T then 12T? Seems like that's all you would need.
The thing is, if you have a very large jump in gear size from one to the next it will not shift smoothly. You would probably need at least one other gear in between that 20t and the 42t.
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy definitely gonna try it though. Good video
@@FC2ESWS thanks man. Good luck!
Would not work on my Trek Marlin 6. Derailer would hit the large cog and not allow the down shift.
You have to have a smooth transition from each cog size. If one of the cogs is too large then yeah it will hit that large cog and not allow it to go on.
Is it possible to use old sprockets and spacers for spacing instead of clamp ?
You can indeed, though it will not look as nice. That was actually how we used to recommend this modification. The link below shows some pics of a cassette like that. Underneath this embedded video you can see the original guide with the sprockets simply rearranged.
electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/motors-and-kits/bbshd/39170-how-to-rework-rear-sprockets-for-mid-drive-systems
I considered cutting down old gears but it would be heavier then these aluminum clamps.
Do you notice an increase in acceleration
It is meant to optimize chainline not speed, though I suppose if you are using a gearsensor it would increase speed insomuch as the gearsensor would not have to cut power as often since you would be shifting less
Why not just use regular spacers?
Regular spacers may not have same indexing
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy Thanks. Yea, I have a 10 spped Talon 1. I could not find this one in 10 speed that comes apart with one bolt. I am building a BBSHD right now, but do not want ten friggin gears! From what i've learned, if you got a 10 gear system, you basically have to swap out the cassette, the derailuer, and the shifter. pain in the azz.
@@One_-_Man-_-Clan ideally you would do that anyway as 10sp chains are usually more fragile than 8 or 9
Wouldn’t hurt to have a fin on this thing to keep your chain from going of into the spokes
all that heavy part dropping is so loud through the speakers
Any difference in setting up derailleur?
Less cable tension so that the derailleur cannot pull the chain behind the cassette.
@@justin169169 thank you
You may also need to adjust the lower limit screw but start with adjusting cable tension and see where that gets you.
Audio is too low. Nobody is going to give you that much attention. Sorry man, its what it is.
If you don't know how to raise volume on your computer then this guide is not for you lol
Im listening at half volume and audio is perfectly fine. Sounds like your issue is with your device and not the video itself.
Sorry man, its what it is.
@@fuzzyfriendlydoggy great answer, LOL
When someone loves you, the way they talk about you is different. You feel safe and comfortable.
Omg.