@@tejanerella2004Jaylen green was supposed to be a super star but he is a cool number 2 on a team. Not bad but just not what fans expected so that’s where the hate comes from
Kenny needs to stop forcing people to watch the game naively though. He makes this exact video every other month, complaining that NBA fans don’t enjoy the product anymore. Theres nothing wrong with dissecting the game. Those days of being naive viewers are over
@@jjcooler6961 Agree but to be fair the problem was "why isn't Chicago winning 50+ games if he's this good?" But I think the LaVine thing is outside analytics. It's more about availability and subsequently the contract. But if he played 75-80 every year I don't think the contract is even an issue.
@@Villey You can do both though. Like when we get to the later playoffs I'll often watch games twice. First naively just to enjoy it then a second time to analyze what happened and why. Even in the regular season I rewind all the time if something catches my eye
literally me since 07. ive only watched games before christmas when my team was coming off a chip, otherwise the season has always stared for me on christmas day
@@Wagwan38 spent a lot of time growing up overseas so you had to be up late for games and we didnt get much aside from the national tv games, i would always catch sports center with my dad before and after school though. my dad would tivo the games and espn.
The finest in the game, bro, is Kenny 4. Just takes, numbers, and vibes-no pointless video essay on some phony story, no clout chasing. I'm proud of you, dude. Continue to win!
Yeah, most thoughts are arguments end in "statistically they're not the best" or "who carers they're not winning the chip" and it makes things way less enjoyable
The endless Lebron-Jordan debate is what started ring culture. I dont remember ring culture being a thing before that debate really got going on tv and online
back in the day is was mostly about competition and winning rings. nowadays everything is so statistical so that lebron has a claim to the goat debate cause obviously winning is not in his dna.
@@johnmarkson1990 I think it was also too far in that direction so this was the response, NFL fans care about winning and rings but are also very much able to give players flowers for their peak and how well they played that we have people still saying Lawrence Taylor to be the greatest football player, and Dan Marino to the old heads is still the best QB despite Tom Brady having the most rings. There has to be expectation of winning but also understanding of the greatness. Like MJ can still the GOAT and I still be impressed Lebron went to 10 finals in a row regardless of circumstance as a key piece/star. But one side would argue one way and the other side another and we forget the great thing they did
Your comment plays into it though. Jordan career didn’t start in the ‘91 finals. Bill Russell has five more titles than Jordan and beat teams that were closer to his teams level. All “rings culture “ is, is uber dick riding of Michael Jordan.
Bucks fan, I remember someone legit arguing that the Bucks winning the finals in 2021 was a bad thing because then Mike Budenholzer got to keep his job. Like what the hell
I don't remember anyone saying the Bucks winning the finals was bad. I do remember a lot of people just accepting the loss to the Nets by going "Well at least we can fire Bud now"
@mrfathed3129 to be clear, it was like a wild ass hot take and not the general opinion. You're right more generally, though. That wasn't a common sentiment
I’m not a smart fan at all. I vote for who I like and deserves a nod like MotorCade. Watching him grow has been amazing and he deserves to be an all star.
I think this year's fan voting has been one of the most accurate ones relative to years past. Like Andrew Wiggins was a starter one year, Zaza damn near became one (so they had to change the rules)
Kenny you made me realize how happy I am as a sport fan. Idgaf about salaries, narratives outside the lines or get attached to bets. I just hope to see good competition where everyone walks away uninjured. We are a small mighty bunch
What drives me crazy about people who want to tank, is that they cant even stand to watch the tanking. Somehow we're supposed to win while developing players and tanking at the same time
Well tanking and developing players aren't the same thing even if they often overlap. I'm down with tanking by trading away good players but sitting people out on purpose and doing dumb shit just to lose is unwatchable
yeah you have to be seeing a good system during the tank. the coach has to be good. the players have to play with max effort and they only lost cause their young etc. no one is allowed to just tank in peace these days. its sad.
I think the raptors started off being the perfect tank team. Players were developing while nearly every game was a good game to be invested in. Lately they've been unwatchable, but at first they showed how you can be a tanking team, but develop young talent along with having a relatively clear path in the future
I’m a jazz fan and we just beat the nets on our rookies buzzer beater and a lot of the fans I saw were upset because it hurt the draft odds. But like, what are you doing if you don’t want to see the occasional win. We still have only 10 wins and there needs to be some foundation for when the team is better
Kenny 4 real the best in the game bro. No useless video essay on some BS narrative, no clout chasing, just takes, stats, and vibes. Proud of you brotha. Keep winning!!!
I agree with you Kenny. I’m Australian and we have the afl These days, everyone is aware of players coming up in the draft 1-3 years in advance. And they are so closely followed that if your team is going poorly you want to tank for that player. Back in the day no one cared about players coming up to the draft etc
I feel this so hard, went and saw the Jazz win in OT against Brooklyn last night, and it was just a game of who can lose harder it felt like. And at the end of the game I didn't see my favorite player playing and the Jazz still win, against a bad team meaning our lottery odds just got even worse, hard to cheer for a your favorite team when you want them to lose.
As a Bull's fan, I've kind of gone full circle on this and I have 0 faith that our front office will save the team any time soon so I'm just going to be happy when my team succeeds on the court. We edge out a win against the Celtics? Hell yeah bro. We get blown out by the Wizards? Give me some time to cool down. Come playoff time, I'll live vicariously through my favorite player Jokic and cheer for the Nuggets because I know the Bulls are getting bounced out during the play-ins.
Agreed bro. Tank culture is terrible and miserable and why would we have any faith in this FO to 1) just get straight up lucky in the lottery 2) make a good pick and 3) develop the player well when 2 of our 3 last top 7 picks have panned out terribly and the other one (coby) has been like, alright. We have an easy schedule coming up I just hope we can go on a good run and creep up to the 6th seed. Our team is young that wouldn’t be a bad spot even. When my team wins, I’m gonna be happy. What a concept
@@camgoczeski2198 I agree bro. The 76ers tank almost killed their franchise (a bit of hyperbole), and what did they get out of it? A superstar that never plays and a team that can't get out of the second round. In fact, the two most exciting players they have for me, Tyrese Maxey and Jared McCain, came after their tanking period. Tanking just sucks and it's a slap in the face to the fans of that franchise. You don't need a top 5 pick to get a top 5 player, you just need a good FO and a good development process. Giannis was the 15th pick, Shai and Sabonis were the 11th pick, and we all know about Jokic. It makes things easier to have the higher pick ofc but damn I don't want to be the Wizards for multiple seasons for a "chance" to be good 5 years down the road.
In my eyes, what you described is sport Kenny. All my pro sports teams are dookie rn. They reached the highest of highs and now they're at the lowest of lows. Do I want to trade my aging stars for a better pick in the draft down the line? Yes. But also absolutely not. I love my teams, and every player that wears our uniform (except Dragic lmao f that guy). It's not just routing for your team, it's about routing for your players that put their necks out for your team night in and night out. It's why I hated seeing Lowry go, that shit ripped me to shreds. Valanciunas, Ross, Miles, Siakam, Freddy, Ibaka, Gasol, Wright, TD, Thomas, obviously Kawhi and DeRozan in B2B years. Where the Raps are now, we are prime to get Flagg, But I would much prefer to have all my boys back on my team again. I celebrate the wins, I celebrate the current players, I celebrate the future, I celebrate the past, I celebrate the present. It is impossible to balance all of those things (unless you're the fuckin Yankees ffs) as a franchise, but also as a fan. That's sport.
I follow basketball casually but baseball like this. The balance I found is during the offseason plot on all of this. Plot on trades contracts etc. be that fan who is too in the know for their own good. However once the season starts cheer for your team everything else be damned. You can 100% be both types of fans
Gambling has ruined the regular season for a lot of people. Just the other day i saw someone say they cant enjoy the game if they dont have a parlay on it
this is so true it’s so mind numbing to try and talk about sports with people who just look at outcomes like i don’t care how the stats look if you don’t watch what happens you will never have the full picture
As a fan when it becomes evident that your squad is doing nothing this season (about halfway through) I start hoping for a tank as well. I hate being the "best team not in the playoffs" because it's usually no man's land for getting better next season.
Some people are simply a fan of a sport because that sport is on top and trending at that moment. The moment that sport stops being relevant in the culture, they immediately jump ship and start watching something else. I feel like these people do this because they just want to be a part of something big at a moment in time in order to feel more important about themselves.
This is why soccer leagues have relegations. Even when your team is bad, they are fighting to not get relegated to the second division so it can be a battle all season.
A great example of this is the way people try to reframe the Kawhi-PG Clippers in 2019 as the "worst trade" of all time and act as if any of them knew what SGA would become etc. As if trading for a prime Paul George to sign Kawhi was not clearly a win now move, salary cap and future picks be damned.
This narrative is so dumb to me because if you think a team of elite role players that came back down 20 from Durant Warriors adding 2 MVP candidates is bad then you need to shut your mouth. Those people don't even know who SGA is at the time and all they know is that the Clippers gave out the most picks in a trade in NBA history
I blame fantasy football for myself personally. That's what made me just start constantly digging into analytics and less just enjoying sports. I stopped playing fantasy football, but can't get my brain to go back.
As a panthers fan I play fantasy football so I can enjoy the sport while rooting for my team. It eases the pain of watching my currently bad football team
I’ve also got a friend who’s a giants fan and all year he kept celebrating losses and talking about getting a good draft pick. As you might know the panthers started playing well again at the end of the season when it was too late and I personally was just happy to see the panthers win as I didn’t really care about tanking for a better pick. At the end of the day, every fan going to take in sports content differently and I think that’s the beauty of sports.
This the biggest difference when talking NBA versus NFL. When I talk about NFL with friends, we hardly ever discuss contracts or what this Offensive Lineman block rate percentage is on second down. Can you protect the QB or nah?
4:07 I apply this too with futbol as well 😂 I haven’t been up to date with my favorite teams like the stats and even the player’s names, but damnit I will watch them cause I want to see them win! 😭
As a fan of a team that somewhat recently blew it up rebuilt and is now reaping the benefits I can confidently say even in the tank seasons it was more fun for me watching the young guys develop and show there potential even in the losses rather than running out a 35-40 win team every season and seeing no success and never getting over that hill
You are correct that tanking is never a guarantee to get a good boost. People don't claim it is a guarantee though. They claim it's better for your future to have the #1 draft pick than what you could have had if you won as many games as possible.
this why it’s so nice being a heat fan. never tank philosophy and always being able to find fun new talent with development. there are annoying fans that don’t like our front office. but as a non-doomer it’s so sweet to always want to win and having the front office agree
Warriors fans are against the Lavine thing now because it would require too much and wouldn't make the Warriors a contender. What they really wanted was to trade CP3 for Lavine instead of just cutting him. But Lavine doesn't move the needle. Neither does Butler.
@ Because I saw first hand how a monstrous contract ( Russell Westbrook with the Lakers ) can kill the cap of a team and have no options if that player is not that good to be your 1st or 2nd option
@@gmae5342 Better than all those fans not understanding the cap wanting to trade a 10 million player for a 40 million player. The cap is not hard to understand, just need to have a certain amount of intelligence and not being lazy to understand it
The way I enjoy basketball to keep away from the negativity is to follow one player on the team and watch all of their moves. It's fun and teaches you about moves you didn't know about. Sometimes I'll go crazy over players like Joe ingles, Rui Hachimura, and Bones Hyland.
As a Warriors fan, it sucks seeing how stubborn our front office is. Podz and Kuminga had VALUE this offseason/last year and their value has decreased ever since, and they still won’t make change.
I was struggling with the same thing last night watching my hornets choke away a game to the suns, thinking “do I even want us to win this game?” Everyone win just decreases our chances at cooper Flagg or dylan Harper
I feel like if your at bottom 5 of the league then you shouldn't really care that much about wins against "good" teams. Like at some point you're gonna win and its better if its against better teams
Cavaliers fan here and I’ve had this thought for a long time. It frustrated me that people couldn’t just have a good time when JB Bickerstaff was at the helm. I prefer Kenny, but that doesn’t change the fact that we had a great run from when we drafted Darius onward. He went from literally the worst player in the entire league statistically into an All-Star and everyone else has grown around him and Donovan and Evan. It’s been really fun to watch.
@@davidascano2144i may be wrong on the details, but they’re the reason we have the stepien rule(you can’t trade 1st picks back to back years). he basically mortgaged off the future to try and win then and screwed over the franchise for a long time
13:31 What are the odds that a possible top 10 pick could end up as a player as good as Lavine though? I think at this point the Bulls are too good to actually be able to keep that pick. They would have to trade Lavine RIGHT NOW and then lose most of the games in the season and I don't think that would happen.
Exactly the type of thinking I have all the time. Like anytime a team trades a superstar it's almost hard for me to get behind it cause it's like you probably won't get someone that good again
Eye Test vs Analytics is a battle within all sports that has been ongoing for years, but even more so recently the best kind of fans are the ones who know how to balance using both methods to enjoy the sport tbh BALANCE IS ALWAYS THE KEY
Your point at 5:20 feels even more real as a Bulls fan. We don't develop picks well 80-85% of the time, why should we believe this one will be different? Jerry Reinsdorf hasn't yet been called down to hell where he belongs, and his ownership policies don't help us hope for a rebuild very easily Meanwhile, Julian Phillips is that dude plz don't leave us Julian
As a causal british fan, the salary and contract stuff doesn't matter since our sports also dont care about it. If they're nice with it, im a fan. I aint the GM, im a fan
@unlockedaccount Man city, other than that nobody cares tbh. Nobody says X player is on this contract, or we shouldnt get X because of their wages. We dont look at Salah and compare him to his wage like NBA fans hyperfocus on it, if theyre good, theyre good
This is very much in line with the youth prioritization in the nba we don't want good seasons, which would rely on reliable proven guys, but instead we'd rather suck for 5 years to get a single ring, which is no guarantee. It's kind of an all or nothing way of looking at the game that actually encourages average basketball being worse.
5:00 you're trippen. Bulls have been stuck in directionless mediocrity for years. I could care less if we beat the defending champs if theres no clear direction the franchise is going.
I feel the exact same way about professional wrestling, a lot of the “smart” fan base only watches to critique when it’s meant to be entertainment. With the NBA I also just sit back and watch cause if I get into numbers I just wouldn’t enjoy seeing basketball anymore. Unfortunately I’m too into baseball I barely enjoy it like I used to lol
This is why I believe Player contracts should be lowered to A) include a mandatory “Wins Bonus” to financially incentivise player to care more about winning. B) include a mandatory “minutes played” - not games played - bonus. This would be to truly recognise the season long contribution a player makes on the court. Why pay a player who misses too many games each year (outside of genuine injuries) Note: I am aware some players care no matter what, but this is a league wide suggestion because contracts can be overly complex right now.
I think it really depends on the organization/sport. Teams like the lakers, 9ers, cowboys, Yankees ect should essentially never tank and always fight to be in contention. But smaller market teams it makes a lot more sense to be ok with tanking for a few seasons with the idea of "we'll be good in a few years once we get a a top pick or multiple". As a 9ers and raptors fan, im fine with the raptors being ass for a while with the idea they hit on their high picks and rebuild well, but i expect a lot more from the 9ers due to their history and how both organizations have always handled themselves
People are crazy nowadays, I'm a Wolves fan so I've never been worried about my team winning the title, when KG and Love left I was happy for them. The problem is too many people on twitter talking nonsense like the only point of basketball is for their team to win. I used to go to wolves games with my dad specifically when Kobe or Lebron was in town just to see us lose extra bad lol Social media has done this to everything, the discussion and the engagement is the point, we don't know how to just enjoy ball (or anything else) anymore
As someone who doesn't know (or care to know) anything about aprons or contracts or all that stuff, I appreciate this video. We need to stop finding reasons to not enjoy the sport we love.
I believe the culture of Social Media (specifically X) as a whole ruined ALL fandom across all leagues. Majority of "fans" are searching for a "Banger" Tweet and a "gotcha moment" instead of what Kenny is saying. I dont even believe they are fans they are sports better, stan accounts, ppl who only watch highlights and box score watchers. They genuinely dont care about the game AT ALL they only care abt what the game can bring them rather its financial or attention......
Good video. I think this is a problem in society in general. In 2025, almost nobody is "doing the thing", they are supporting the support team that is doing the thing.
As a Warriors fan, I absolutely feel your anger Kenny. There is a section of fans that actually believe nothing should be done. They believe Lavine and Zion should not even be options because they're injury prone. Bruh....😂
With the "caring about salaries" thing, people just don't want to be disappointed. That's what it comes down to. Because the cycle before we started tempering expectations was 1. Hey that player nice 2. That player would be great with 's roster! I wonder if we can get him 3. Oh yeah, for sure,
As an NBA fan, I really wish Cooper Flagg to not get picked by Wizards or Hornets. Imagine he plays 15 years in NBA and retires with 1 playoff series appearance with 0-4 result. I'm also so grateful that Spurs got Wemby. They will be competitive in no time.
As a person from the UK this is very much an American sports problem, this is the consequence of not having a relegation system, wins and losses actually mean less to a team/fan, I support a football (soccer) team in England and every win means the world and every loss is the end of it! And on the topic of contracts, I hardly ever look at the salary of players because there’s no need as salary cap isn’t really a thing, therefore however much my team pays has no impact on me 😂
I’m not disagreeing with you, but I guess I don’t know that it would change the FO strategy for the Bulls, since their documented strategy is to put together a relatively cheap, .500 team in order to sell tickets. They’ll never spend or risk enough to win on serious level, but conversely they’ll also never be a bottom feeder. This is me just asking, but they wouldn’t be motivated to change the strategy to avoid relegation since they’ll never be bad enough to be the worse team in the league. Right?
@ I guess I’m speaking from a fan perspective not a team one, it makes perfect sense for them to run it this way as at the end of the day it’s a business! But In my opinion I feel sports is more fun when there is a serious consequence to not performing well, in the nba you’re even rewarded for doing poorly hence teams tanking, I guess I’m not talking as much of the bulls as I am the league in general if ygm?
@@stackcosvin8422 it all depends on what you prefer. every loss feeling like the end of the world isnt exactly something i can cope with. just way too much stress. american sports is way more relaxaed and chilled back. players like jaylen green lamelo fun to watch. it stops being fun if there doing circus shots and losing is a bad thing.
@ and that’s understandable, i just feel that the overall competitiveness of a relegation system is the best, I enjoy watching the NBA but as a fan of the sport and not a team it lacks a sort of dog battle that can happen in English Football and it only really happens in game 7s if ygm, and also why im on the topic i think the season is way too long
I've been more of a college basketball fan for a while but I'm getting more into being an NBA fan this year and I'm honestly just rooting for the pacers to win. I have no idea who's a free agent and who's being paid what. It's been pretty nice
It’s tough tho, cause we’ve seen so many teams with a Star player try to build a contending team (like the warriors) mess their whole future up and result with nothing in return. Look at the Lakers, bucks, Knicks. Us fans have too much ptsd from bad trades and being forced into mediocracy for years
The solution is that the NBA should have slowly phased in the whole second apron stuff. They put all of these new CBA trade/salary rules out all at once after players had already signed contracts and it totally screwed over several teams and that definitely affected the trade market heavily.
Kenny, on the flip side of this, if teams go "all-in" too hard, they end up looking like the Suns, Nets and Clippers. We always have to hedge our bets. On the note of the Warriors--they should definitely have essentially everyone, but Curry and Kuminga on the table. But, it won't matter if they don't also move off of Steve Kerr, which WON'T happen, so yeah... being a fan in GSW is a dark place right now.
10:26 - I promise you there's no Warriors fans that would rather keep podz than prioritize Steph. The problem with contracts is not about not wanting to pay someone too much money. It's about making the trade work at all. In order to trade for a Zach LaVine, the Warriors would have to trade Wiggins and other players. If we could just trade our young guys like Podz and Kuminga and get a star player in return, I promise you that 99% of warriors fans would be on board w it. But its just not possible.
Yall want to eat your cake and also have it. If you gotta give up kuminga who BARELY even wants to be there to get a flamethrower then why the hell not? You’re trying to fleece teams to improve and it’s not gonna happen. Then kuminga will come up on a contract year and either leave in free agency or you’ll trade him for nothing. Rip the band aid off and get Steph curry some help
Trading Kuminga would be fine in my opinion as a Warriors fan. The issue is with contracts and even being allowed to make a trade at all. Kuminga is currently only making $7.6M and to be able to trade for some player that is going to help the team (a star level player) then the contract in return is anywhere from $30M to $50M. The Warriors are in a situation where they aren't allowed to take more money back in a trade than they are giving. In order to trade for someone like LaVine, the Warriors would have to trade Andrew Wiggins (our main defender and second best player), likely Dennis Schroder (who hasn't played well, and we gave up 3 second round picks for no reason.. but also him included makes this only possible at the trade deadline which has more risk in trying to contend with only so little of the season left). And then also, they'd have to trade someone like Jonathan Kuminga, Brandin Podziemski, Buddy Hield, Kyle Anderson, Gary Payton II or Kevon Looney. Usually teams are going to want draft picks for a star as well, which is the reason it is so unlikely for the Warriors to trade for someone to help. Also, it isn't that Kuminga doesn't want to be there, he just wanted a larger role and to be paid his contract.. and this season he has been given the role and it is believed he will get the contract or at least one similar. Kuminga also would be unlikely to leave in free agency as he would be restricted as a free agent so the Warriors could get him back if they wanted to, and it isn't realistic for them to let him leave for nothing.
Yea maybe not now? But y’all had a chance to get stars but wanted to keep those young guys around, now years later those guys haven’t shown much. you can find those tweets of GSW so easily btw
@@MLB123-r5tLavine has never been a target for the Warriors tho it was Lauri before he got paid, but they had players they could’ve traded for but just decided to stay stagnant
This exact mentality has burnt me out in bball… I was hate watching my okc thunder and now when they are good im burnt no longer hyper focused on it… trying to get the casual fan mentality
Realistically the draft lottery sucks. I’m a pats fan in the NFL and the hope that has gotten me through to watch all their games this year is knowing we’re gonna get a high pick, regardless and that last game against the bills I wanted to win bc I knew what pick i had secured. In the NBA I’m a blazers fan, and I’m the fan like your dad that’s gonna watch every game regardless and root for them, but it sucks to be in the position you’re in bc if you constantly keep getting unlucky with lottery with a 6th, 7th, 3rd and so on so forth (not the blazers picks but just an example) it never gives you that shot to have theoretically THE best player from the draft. *one more thing, I do get that the lottery is supposed to make people not tank but that’s a lie, everyone will still tank but the only exception is that you will have these teams tanking for longer until they get lucky rather than being able to get the 1st pick and get that franchise out
I love this sentiment of fandom, but it's very easy to be cynical of your hometown team due to historically being incompetent. So in that same breath, that's why bandwagons shouldn't be shamed for rooting for a team that is actually competent
As a Spurs fan, I honestly think they should go for Zach Lavine. Spurs need someone additional offensively. They can just throw out matching salary, maybe give the bulls their protected first back or seconds. They get an offensive powerhouse to play next to Wemby. Zach gets to play for a serious organization for the first time. Zach aint even 30 years old. The Spurs are good with playing guys limited minutes to extend their health. Spurs have no big salaries down the pipeline until 2 years from now when Wemby signs his extension and even that max money wont be that big cause its his first extension. Zach can extend on a more team friendly deal as he gets to his next deal and ages. This is almost a perfect fit to me. As long as the Bulls aren't demanding much, its a low risk high reward situation. Worse case Zach expires in two years and you trade his expiring deal for a different high salary guy
Man, thats the issue w/ U.S leagues, the mentality of winner takes it all but looser suffers no consequence. Experiment putting relegations into tournments, you'll see the swift change in nature of competitivity all around. But y'all not ready for this conversation
The real difference in what I think Kenny is trying to allude to with the culture of the NBA is how NBA fans are toxic with the technical stuff when it comes to the NBA. I say this as an NBA fan that only started watching the NBA during covid. I grew up watching football (soccer) and the real difference that you notice between Football and Basketball fans is how fans engage the technical stuff. There's a lot that can be said about "technical stuff" so to keep this brief, I'll mainly refer to a couple points Kenny mentions. In football culture, fans don't pay attention to contracts and whether a team is tanking, for the most part because it doesn't affect a fans ability to hope for their team. You see the difference of this in Basketball culture where contracts and picks do significantly affect the fans ability to hope (either hoping to tank for a pick, or hoping to win for the playoffs). Football focuses more on transfers whereas the NBA has trades (which I found very weird when I started watching but 30 teams only ehh), and in football, transfer fees are rarely an important point of discussion whereas the NBA, bro I'm still shocked Bradley Beal makes as much as he does with a no trade clause lmao, so yeah NBA its pretty interesting. And if you haven't guessed why the culture is like this you have to look at the political ideologies of America v Europe and you can see how cultures differ and how its reflected in sports. Picks are great but I think they hurt the weaker teams more than they help because unless that tanking team lands a good-great pick, they most likely aren't competing for the POs. Football, you land in the bottom 3 you get relegated to a lower division, so teams are always trying. Advanced stats are good for the sport, but for the most part toxic for the culture. Football fans only really use stats to criticize players whereas NBA fans use stats as a basis for every criticism. I know Mbappe isn'y playing well cause he only has x goals but he's a y type player vs Wemby is dpoy, he's averaging x blocks per game, his team's defensive rating with him on court v off court is y, and he's contesting z shots per game. (But this point is its own topic tbh cause the sports are very different) And I think the way modern day NBA analysts and commentators talk about the sport isn't necessarily bad because people like you, Kenny, inform casual fans about things they should keep in mind while supporting their favorite teams. I remember the discourse about the era of Skip Bayless always hatewatching Lebron and I do think that has created or at least influenced the modern day toxic fandom we have where someone might use info they got from Kenny to go hate watch the Lakers or whoever. But for the most part, that's up to the fan because having informative commentators like Numbers on the Board rather than toxic ones like First Take, makes, the casual fan seem not so casual.
We've gone in a huge circle only to realise "that boy nice" is the proper way to watch basketball
Man I can never say anything good about anyone anymore because people will pull up 20 sheets of negative stats. Just watch and enjoy damn
Real ones been knew that tho
That's it
@@YunisRajabJalen Green is the perfect example of this, he’s fun to watch but he’s probably not a 1st option so these kind of fans act like he’s a bum
@@tejanerella2004Jaylen green was supposed to be a super star but he is a cool number 2 on a team. Not bad but just not what fans expected so that’s where the hate comes from
"That boy nice" is the way to watch. We go to analytics to figure out problems, not to diagnose someone w them
This is such a good phase. Gonna start using that one.
Kenny needs to stop forcing people to watch the game naively though. He makes this exact video every other month, complaining that NBA fans don’t enjoy the product anymore. Theres nothing wrong with dissecting the game. Those days of being naive viewers are over
@@panashe5268Over for YOU. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I’m a diehard NBA fan but sometimes it’s nice to just watch and not be a stat nerd
@@jjcooler6961 Agree but to be fair the problem was "why isn't Chicago winning 50+ games if he's this good?"
But I think the LaVine thing is outside analytics. It's more about availability and subsequently the contract. But if he played 75-80 every year I don't think the contract is even an issue.
@@Villey You can do both though.
Like when we get to the later playoffs I'll often watch games twice. First naively just to enjoy it then a second time to analyze what happened and why.
Even in the regular season I rewind all the time if something catches my eye
the term “CASUAL” has hurt the NBA. 10 years ago if you watched only national tv, and highlights, you were TAPPED IN
This new trend of fake elitis downing “casual” is so lame lol
@@ceomissesmost of the people that say ‘casual’ as an insult are online yapping hipsters that have never seen a live game in their life.
literally me since 07. ive only watched games before christmas when my team was coming off a chip, otherwise the season has always stared for me on christmas day
@@amapnamedpam was the opening day games advertised/available to you? n did u ever watch at least that night?
@@Wagwan38 spent a lot of time growing up overseas so you had to be up late for games and we didnt get much aside from the national tv games, i would always catch sports center with my dad before and after school though. my dad would tivo the games and espn.
I can feel Kenny getting angrier every time a cut happens in the video 😭😭😭
The finest in the game, bro, is Kenny 4. Just takes, numbers, and vibes-no pointless video essay on some phony story, no clout chasing. I'm proud of you, dude. Continue to win!
Yeah, most thoughts are arguments end in "statistically they're not the best" or "who carers they're not winning the chip" and it makes things way less enjoyable
Agreed
The endless Lebron-Jordan debate is what started ring culture. I dont remember ring culture being a thing before that debate really got going on tv and online
back in the day is was mostly about competition and winning rings. nowadays everything is so statistical so that lebron has a claim to the goat debate cause obviously winning is not in his dna.
@@johnmarkson1990 I think it was also too far in that direction so this was the response, NFL fans care about winning and rings but are also very much able to give players flowers for their peak and how well they played that we have people still saying Lawrence Taylor to be the greatest football player, and Dan Marino to the old heads is still the best QB despite Tom Brady having the most rings. There has to be expectation of winning but also understanding of the greatness. Like MJ can still the GOAT and I still be impressed Lebron went to 10 finals in a row regardless of circumstance as a key piece/star. But one side would argue one way and the other side another and we forget the great thing they did
Your comment plays into it though. Jordan career didn’t start in the ‘91 finals. Bill Russell has five more titles than Jordan and beat teams that were closer to his teams level. All “rings culture “ is, is uber dick riding of Michael Jordan.
bro im dumb as hell. But im not gonna stop arguing with losers
Not wanting to learn makes you the loser, and also dumb
Real
This funny asf ngl 😭😭😭😭
Bruh you sound cool😂 but you gotta distance yourself from losers cuz ts contagious
Aye bro at least you gone stand on bidness 😂😂
Bucks fan, I remember someone legit arguing that the Bucks winning the finals in 2021 was a bad thing because then Mike Budenholzer got to keep his job. Like what the hell
I don't remember anyone saying the Bucks winning the finals was bad. I do remember a lot of people just accepting the loss to the Nets by going "Well at least we can fire Bud now"
@mrfathed3129 to be clear, it was like a wild ass hot take and not the general opinion. You're right more generally, though. That wasn't a common sentiment
This is a side effect of being too online. Most fans just want to see great hoops.
Similar space with the music industry too. Folks talk about record sales and social media numbers more than whether they enjoy the music or not.
We are living in the map, not the territory
Relevant!!
@@werideatduskI'm definitely stealing this...
Look at all star voting and tell me that nba fans are too smart
Lmao this killed me
I’m not a smart fan at all. I vote for who I like and deserves a nod like MotorCade. Watching him grow has been amazing and he deserves to be an all star.
Most of those that vote aren't even fans..
I think this year's fan voting has been one of the most accurate ones relative to years past. Like Andrew Wiggins was a starter one year, Zaza damn near became one (so they had to change the rules)
@@tooforwon241people still are voting Wiggins over JJJ lmao
Remember when he said “what’s the word” before every video 😔
He still does lol, just not this vid
He still does stupid
what’s the word yall🤠
@@batistajrJDCwhy they gotta b stupid?
someone doesn’t watch every video lol
Kenny you made me realize how happy I am as a sport fan. Idgaf about salaries, narratives outside the lines or get attached to bets. I just hope to see good competition where everyone walks away uninjured. We are a small mighty bunch
What drives me crazy about people who want to tank, is that they cant even stand to watch the tanking. Somehow we're supposed to win while developing players and tanking at the same time
Well tanking and developing players aren't the same thing even if they often overlap. I'm down with tanking by trading away good players but sitting people out on purpose and doing dumb shit just to lose is unwatchable
yeah you have to be seeing a good system during the tank. the coach has to be good. the players have to play with max effort and they only lost cause their young etc. no one is allowed to just tank in peace these days. its sad.
I think the raptors started off being the perfect tank team. Players were developing while nearly every game was a good game to be invested in. Lately they've been unwatchable, but at first they showed how you can be a tanking team, but develop young talent along with having a relatively clear path in the future
@@masonbradley8914 So the bulls? lol, we fit the description but suck and have no real young talent
I been watching the Wizards tank
I’m a jazz fan and we just beat the nets on our rookies buzzer beater and a lot of the fans I saw were upset because it hurt the draft odds. But like, what are you doing if you don’t want to see the occasional win. We still have only 10 wins and there needs to be some foundation for when the team is better
They just want the team to go 0-82 with the way they acted after that gamd
You know it’s serious when Kenny swears 😂
Smarter and a lot of nba fans who follow all the stats, standings and highlights don't watch any games
Yep we watch people talk about the game instead of watching it ourselves
Okay but let's be honest, that's literally most of us 😅
@@justno984speak for yourself man. A lot of us actually watch basketball
Kenny 4 real the best in the game bro. No useless video essay on some BS narrative, no clout chasing, just takes, stats, and vibes. Proud of you brotha. Keep winning!!!
Shoutout Kenny's dad yo 🔥🔥 The best way to enjoy sports
I agree with you Kenny. I’m Australian and we have the afl
These days, everyone is aware of players coming up in the draft 1-3 years in advance. And they are so closely followed that if your team is going poorly you want to tank for that player. Back in the day no one cared about players coming up to the draft etc
I feel this so hard, went and saw the Jazz win in OT against Brooklyn last night, and it was just a game of who can lose harder it felt like. And at the end of the game I didn't see my favorite player playing and the Jazz still win, against a bad team meaning our lottery odds just got even worse, hard to cheer for a your favorite team when you want them to lose.
As a Bull's fan, I've kind of gone full circle on this and I have 0 faith that our front office will save the team any time soon so I'm just going to be happy when my team succeeds on the court. We edge out a win against the Celtics? Hell yeah bro. We get blown out by the Wizards? Give me some time to cool down. Come playoff time, I'll live vicariously through my favorite player Jokic and cheer for the Nuggets because I know the Bulls are getting bounced out during the play-ins.
Agreed bro. Tank culture is terrible and miserable and why would we have any faith in this FO to 1) just get straight up lucky in the lottery 2) make a good pick and 3) develop the player well when 2 of our 3 last top 7 picks have panned out terribly and the other one (coby) has been like, alright. We have an easy schedule coming up I just hope we can go on a good run and creep up to the 6th seed. Our team is young that wouldn’t be a bad spot even. When my team wins, I’m gonna be happy. What a concept
i actually really respect this im nobody to judge or nitpick the community but this right here is a vary good mindset to have on the nba for sure
@@camgoczeski2198 I agree bro. The 76ers tank almost killed their franchise (a bit of hyperbole), and what did they get out of it? A superstar that never plays and a team that can't get out of the second round. In fact, the two most exciting players they have for me, Tyrese Maxey and Jared McCain, came after their tanking period.
Tanking just sucks and it's a slap in the face to the fans of that franchise. You don't need a top 5 pick to get a top 5 player, you just need a good FO and a good development process. Giannis was the 15th pick, Shai and Sabonis were the 11th pick, and we all know about Jokic. It makes things easier to have the higher pick ofc but damn I don't want to be the Wizards for multiple seasons for a "chance" to be good 5 years down the road.
@@Hapahilo619 EXACTLY
So many of us Bulls fans love Jokić and the nuggets. Pretty wild
In my eyes, what you described is sport Kenny.
All my pro sports teams are dookie rn. They reached the highest of highs and now they're at the lowest of lows. Do I want to trade my aging stars for a better pick in the draft down the line? Yes. But also absolutely not. I love my teams, and every player that wears our uniform (except Dragic lmao f that guy).
It's not just routing for your team, it's about routing for your players that put their necks out for your team night in and night out.
It's why I hated seeing Lowry go, that shit ripped me to shreds. Valanciunas, Ross, Miles, Siakam, Freddy, Ibaka, Gasol, Wright, TD, Thomas, obviously Kawhi and DeRozan in B2B years.
Where the Raps are now, we are prime to get Flagg, But I would much prefer to have all my boys back on my team again.
I celebrate the wins, I celebrate the current players, I celebrate the future, I celebrate the past, I celebrate the present.
It is impossible to balance all of those things (unless you're the fuckin Yankees ffs) as a franchise, but also as a fan.
That's sport.
I follow basketball casually but baseball like this. The balance I found is during the offseason plot on all of this. Plot on trades contracts etc. be that fan who is too in the know for their own good. However once the season starts cheer for your team everything else be damned. You can 100% be both types of fans
it feels like people don't actually like the sport of basketball
Fact Americans complain too much Nba should focus on African/European fans
They like gambling and narratives more than basketball itself that’s why they’re always focused analytics instead of the game
Gambling has ruined the regular season for a lot of people. Just the other day i saw someone say they cant enjoy the game if they dont have a parlay on it
The regular season games are hard to engage with for a lot of people
@@MuttonErase sounds like they didn't like basketball in the first place
this is so true it’s so mind numbing to try and talk about sports with people who just look at outcomes like i don’t care how the stats look if you don’t watch what happens you will never have the full picture
3:00 Him saying Type Shi killed me I'm like woah 😱😂
why
*WHOAAAAAooooOOOOO
@@Kilometerscasehe don’t really swear much
@@Crimson866he's been getting way more loose with it lately
As a fan when it becomes evident that your squad is doing nothing this season (about halfway through) I start hoping for a tank as well. I hate being the "best team not in the playoffs" because it's usually no man's land for getting better next season.
This is how I felt watching fans discuss the NBA ratings issues. Bro, you are not a league executive it doesn’t matter to you at all
The discussion would be better if it was more focused on making the game better more than the NBA ratings (similar but not the same)
Some people are simply a fan of a sport because that sport is on top and trending at that moment.
The moment that sport stops being relevant in the culture, they immediately jump ship and start watching something else.
I feel like these people do this because they just want to be a part of something big at a moment in time in order to feel more important about themselves.
NBA ratings talk is the most useless conversation to me because I don't give a single fuck about ratings and they talk about it like the holy grail
This is why soccer leagues have relegations. Even when your team is bad, they are fighting to not get relegated to the second division so it can be a battle all season.
A great example of this is the way people try to reframe the Kawhi-PG Clippers in 2019 as the "worst trade" of all time and act as if any of them knew what SGA would become etc. As if trading for a prime Paul George to sign Kawhi was not clearly a win now move, salary cap and future picks be damned.
This narrative is so dumb to me because if you think a team of elite role players that came back down 20 from Durant Warriors adding 2 MVP candidates is bad then you need to shut your mouth. Those people don't even know who SGA is at the time and all they know is that the Clippers gave out the most picks in a trade in NBA history
100000000000%
I blame fantasy football for myself personally. That's what made me just start constantly digging into analytics and less just enjoying sports. I stopped playing fantasy football, but can't get my brain to go back.
As a panthers fan I play fantasy football so I can enjoy the sport while rooting for my team. It eases the pain of watching my currently bad football team
I’ve also got a friend who’s a giants fan and all year he kept celebrating losses and talking about getting a good draft pick. As you might know the panthers started playing well again at the end of the season when it was too late and I personally was just happy to see the panthers win as I didn’t really care about tanking for a better pick. At the end of the day, every fan going to take in sports content differently and I think that’s the beauty of sports.
Idk what Warriors fans Kenny was seeing but we wanted zach this off season and i still want him.
nah there’s a lot that don’t wanna make trades
This the biggest difference when talking NBA versus NFL. When I talk about NFL with friends, we hardly ever discuss contracts or what this Offensive Lineman block rate percentage is on second down. Can you protect the QB or nah?
4:07 I apply this too with futbol as well 😂
I haven’t been up to date with my favorite teams like the stats and even the player’s names, but damnit I will watch them cause I want to see them win! 😭
Kenny, you gotta acknowledge how much of an impact you've had on educating fans
As a fan of a team that somewhat recently blew it up rebuilt and is now reaping the benefits I can confidently say even in the tank seasons it was more fun for me watching the young guys develop and show there potential even in the losses rather than running out a 35-40 win team every season and seeing no success and never getting over that hill
it's 100% okay for warriors fans not to want their office trade for jimmy or lavine. id like to hear a legit argument why they should
You are correct that tanking is never a guarantee to get a good boost. People don't claim it is a guarantee though. They claim it's better for your future to have the #1 draft pick than what you could have had if you won as many games as possible.
this why it’s so nice being a heat fan. never tank philosophy and always being able to find fun new talent with development.
there are annoying fans that don’t like our front office. but as a non-doomer it’s so sweet to always want to win and having the front office agree
Warriors fans are against the Lavine thing now because it would require too much and wouldn't make the Warriors a contender. What they really wanted was to trade CP3 for Lavine instead of just cutting him. But Lavine doesn't move the needle. Neither does Butler.
Kenny doing everything in his power to rebuild Zach Lavine’s trade value with that monstrous contract and injury history 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You’re literally who this video is about
@ Because I saw first hand how a monstrous contract ( Russell Westbrook with the Lakers ) can kill the cap of a team and have no options if that player is not that good to be your 1st or 2nd option
@@BabylonGateLA I’m not even saying you’re wrong that’s just what the video is about
@@gmae5342 Better than all those fans not understanding the cap wanting to trade a 10 million player for a 40 million player. The cap is not hard to understand, just need to have a certain amount of intelligence and not being lazy to understand it
@@BabylonGateLAcomparing Levine to Westbrook is wild. Lavine fits perfectly with golden state, while everyone knew Russ would fail in LA.
11:00 I 1000% agree with you. Warriors best chance to win another ring is with Steph curry RIGHT NOW, not later without him 😭🤦🏻
Your journey is inspiring. Keep shining!
“Reading the CBA type shii” is craaaaaazy bro 😂😂
The way I enjoy basketball to keep away from the negativity is to follow one player on the team and watch all of their moves. It's fun and teaches you about moves you didn't know about. Sometimes I'll go crazy over players like Joe ingles, Rui Hachimura, and Bones Hyland.
Haha I love that this also feels like a plea for Chicago to make a move, I feel that as a Warriors fan
As a Warriors fan, it sucks seeing how stubborn our front office is. Podz and Kuminga had VALUE this offseason/last year and their value has decreased ever since, and they still won’t make change.
As a lakers fan it sucks having a bad front office as well.
That’s why I like college so much. You don’t look forward to a draft pick. Obviously there’s recruiting but I feel like it’s easier to be a chill fan
I was struggling with the same thing last night watching my hornets choke away a game to the suns, thinking “do I even want us to win this game?” Everyone win just decreases our chances at cooper Flagg or dylan Harper
I feel like if your at bottom 5 of the league then you shouldn't really care that much about wins against "good" teams. Like at some point you're gonna win and its better if its against better teams
Cavaliers fan here and I’ve had this thought for a long time. It frustrated me that people couldn’t just have a good time when JB Bickerstaff was at the helm. I prefer Kenny, but that doesn’t change the fact that we had a great run from when we drafted Darius onward. He went from literally the worst player in the entire league statistically into an All-Star and everyone else has grown around him and Donovan and Evan. It’s been really fun to watch.
It holds front offices accountable. It’s good we don’t have a 80s Cavs situation
Someone give me context I don’t wanna look it up, thanks
@@davidascano2144i may be wrong on the details, but they’re the reason we have the stepien rule(you can’t trade 1st picks back to back years). he basically mortgaged off the future to try and win then and screwed over the franchise for a long time
@@keatongumlocknot even to try to win really, for example he traded multiple firsts for a player he cut a few weeks later
lol what are you talking about? Since when has any fan's opinion or knowledge on the game held the front office accountable
@@YunisRajabcough cough the nets
13:31 What are the odds that a possible top 10 pick could end up as a player as good as Lavine though? I think at this point the Bulls are too good to actually be able to keep that pick. They would have to trade Lavine RIGHT NOW and then lose most of the games in the season and I don't think that would happen.
Exactly the type of thinking I have all the time. Like anytime a team trades a superstar it's almost hard for me to get behind it cause it's like you probably won't get someone that good again
@@FollowerOfGod_love Thats what happened with Jimmy Butler
Hope we can all agree we love watching this videos and hope that Kenny knows how much we appreciate the content ❤
Eye Test vs Analytics is a battle within all sports that has been ongoing for years, but even more so recently
the best kind of fans are the ones who know how to balance using both methods to enjoy the sport tbh
BALANCE IS ALWAYS THE KEY
Your point at 5:20 feels even more real as a Bulls fan. We don't develop picks well 80-85% of the time, why should we believe this one will be different? Jerry Reinsdorf hasn't yet been called down to hell where he belongs, and his ownership policies don't help us hope for a rebuild very easily
Meanwhile, Julian Phillips is that dude plz don't leave us Julian
As a causal british fan, the salary and contract stuff doesn't matter since our sports also dont care about it. If they're nice with it, im a fan. I aint the GM, im a fan
a lot of premier league fans speak about net spend and wages as well tbh
@unlockedaccount Man city, other than that nobody cares tbh. Nobody says X player is on this contract, or we shouldnt get X because of their wages. We dont look at Salah and compare him to his wage like NBA fans hyperfocus on it, if theyre good, theyre good
This applies to pro wresting as well smh for those who still watch yall know what i mean
This is very much in line with the youth prioritization in the nba we don't want good seasons, which would rely on reliable proven guys, but instead we'd rather suck for 5 years to get a single ring, which is no guarantee. It's kind of an all or nothing way of looking at the game that actually encourages average basketball being worse.
A lot of it comes from the media and people playing 2K
5:00 you're trippen. Bulls have been stuck in directionless mediocrity for years. I could care less if we beat the defending champs if theres no clear direction the franchise is going.
@6:44 did I see Dillion Harper do what…? Oh, Dylan Harper. Nvm.
yeah every time i see his name i cant not think it
You freaky frog
Bro😂
What Kenny really wants to say is that nba fans should be clueless and be very passionate fans for their teams 💯
Kenny put us all in our place without being disrespectful and gave examples and facts. Honestly, you have to respect this no matter how you feel
Knowing too much isn't always a good thing and sometimes it's OK to tune out a lot of the noise.
I feel the exact same way about professional wrestling, a lot of the “smart” fan base only watches to critique when it’s meant to be entertainment. With the NBA I also just sit back and watch cause if I get into numbers I just wouldn’t enjoy seeing basketball anymore. Unfortunately I’m too into baseball I barely enjoy it like I used to lol
I'm much more like your dad. I'm aware of contracts and whatnot, but I barely pay attention. I just enjoy watching the games and pulling for my team.
"maybe I made this a problem to make a video"
- You just cracked all of sports commentary, bruh
Bring back casual fandom 🙏
most still are. they just act like they know what they are talking about.
Kenny might be too for REAL.
This is why I believe Player contracts should be lowered to
A) include a mandatory “Wins Bonus” to financially incentivise player to care more about winning.
B) include a mandatory “minutes played” - not games played - bonus. This would be to truly recognise the season long contribution a player makes on the court. Why pay a player who misses too many games each year (outside of genuine injuries)
Note: I am aware some players care no matter what, but this is a league wide suggestion because contracts can be overly complex right now.
I think it really depends on the organization/sport. Teams like the lakers, 9ers, cowboys, Yankees ect should essentially never tank and always fight to be in contention. But smaller market teams it makes a lot more sense to be ok with tanking for a few seasons with the idea of "we'll be good in a few years once we get a a top pick or multiple". As a 9ers and raptors fan, im fine with the raptors being ass for a while with the idea they hit on their high picks and rebuild well, but i expect a lot more from the 9ers due to their history and how both organizations have always handled themselves
People are crazy nowadays, I'm a Wolves fan so I've never been worried about my team winning the title, when KG and Love left I was happy for them. The problem is too many people on twitter talking nonsense like the only point of basketball is for their team to win. I used to go to wolves games with my dad specifically when Kobe or Lebron was in town just to see us lose extra bad lol
Social media has done this to everything, the discussion and the engagement is the point, we don't know how to just enjoy ball (or anything else) anymore
As someone who doesn't know (or care to know) anything about aprons or contracts or all that stuff, I appreciate this video. We need to stop finding reasons to not enjoy the sport we love.
Just saw the twitter rant 10 minutes ago, the timing is crazy
Most front offices and NBA coaches are so clueless, that a proper NBA fan is like a genius compared to them.
I believe the culture of Social Media (specifically X) as a whole ruined ALL fandom across all leagues. Majority of "fans" are searching for a "Banger" Tweet and a "gotcha moment" instead of what Kenny is saying. I dont even believe they are fans they are sports better, stan accounts, ppl who only watch highlights and box score watchers. They genuinely dont care about the game AT ALL they only care abt what the game can bring them rather its financial or attention......
average fan isnt watching basketball in January
- Gambling
- Analytics, AI, and the Internet
- Pro Basketball not accesible anymore to the people unless you got money
Good video. I think this is a problem in society in general. In 2025, almost nobody is "doing the thing", they are supporting the support team that is doing the thing.
As a Warriors fan, I absolutely feel your anger Kenny. There is a section of fans that actually believe nothing should be done. They believe Lavine and Zion should not even be options because they're injury prone. Bruh....😂
With the "caring about salaries" thing, people just don't want to be disappointed. That's what it comes down to. Because the cycle before we started tempering expectations was
1. Hey that player nice
2. That player would be great with 's roster! I wonder if we can get him
3. Oh yeah, for sure,
0:43 whats crazy to me is Jokic is on the list meant for guards. this man needs help
As an NBA fan, I really wish Cooper Flagg to not get picked by Wizards or Hornets. Imagine he plays 15 years in NBA and retires with 1 playoff series appearance with 0-4 result. I'm also so grateful that Spurs got Wemby. They will be competitive in no time.
As a person from the UK this is very much an American sports problem, this is the consequence of not having a relegation system, wins and losses actually mean less to a team/fan, I support a football (soccer) team in England and every win means the world and every loss is the end of it! And on the topic of contracts, I hardly ever look at the salary of players because there’s no need as salary cap isn’t really a thing, therefore however much my team pays has no impact on me 😂
I’m not disagreeing with you, but I guess I don’t know that it would change the FO strategy for the Bulls, since their documented strategy is to put together a relatively cheap, .500 team in order to sell tickets. They’ll never spend or risk enough to win on serious level, but conversely they’ll also never be a bottom feeder. This is me just asking, but they wouldn’t be motivated to change the strategy to avoid relegation since they’ll never be bad enough to be the worse team in the league. Right?
@ I guess I’m speaking from a fan perspective not a team one, it makes perfect sense for them to run it this way as at the end of the day it’s a business! But In my opinion I feel sports is more fun when there is a serious consequence to not performing well, in the nba you’re even rewarded for doing poorly hence teams tanking, I guess I’m not talking as much of the bulls as I am the league in general if ygm?
@@stackcosvin8422 it all depends on what you prefer. every loss feeling like the end of the world isnt exactly something i can cope with. just way too much stress. american sports is way more relaxaed and chilled back. players like jaylen green lamelo fun to watch. it stops being fun if there doing circus shots and losing is a bad thing.
@ and that’s understandable, i just feel that the overall competitiveness of a relegation system is the best, I enjoy watching the NBA but as a fan of the sport and not a team it lacks a sort of dog battle that can happen in English Football and it only really happens in game 7s if ygm, and also why im on the topic i think the season is way too long
I've been more of a college basketball fan for a while but I'm getting more into being an NBA fan this year and I'm honestly just rooting for the pacers to win. I have no idea who's a free agent and who's being paid what. It's been pretty nice
It’s tough tho, cause we’ve seen so many teams with a Star player try to build a contending team (like the warriors) mess their whole future up and result with nothing in return. Look at the Lakers, bucks, Knicks. Us fans have too much ptsd from bad trades and being forced into mediocracy for years
The solution is that the NBA should have slowly phased in the whole second apron stuff. They put all of these new CBA trade/salary rules out all at once after players had already signed contracts and it totally screwed over several teams and that definitely affected the trade market heavily.
Kenny, on the flip side of this, if teams go "all-in" too hard, they end up looking like the Suns, Nets and Clippers. We always have to hedge our bets. On the note of the Warriors--they should definitely have essentially everyone, but Curry and Kuminga on the table. But, it won't matter if they don't also move off of Steve Kerr, which WON'T happen, so yeah... being a fan in GSW is a dark place right now.
10:26 - I promise you there's no Warriors fans that would rather keep podz than prioritize Steph. The problem with contracts is not about not wanting to pay someone too much money. It's about making the trade work at all. In order to trade for a Zach LaVine, the Warriors would have to trade Wiggins and other players. If we could just trade our young guys like Podz and Kuminga and get a star player in return, I promise you that 99% of warriors fans would be on board w it. But its just not possible.
That’s been proven to be untrue considering they passed on Lauri over pods.
Yall want to eat your cake and also have it. If you gotta give up kuminga who BARELY even wants to be there to get a flamethrower then why the hell not? You’re trying to fleece teams to improve and it’s not gonna happen. Then kuminga will come up on a contract year and either leave in free agency or you’ll trade him for nothing. Rip the band aid off and get Steph curry some help
Trading Kuminga would be fine in my opinion as a Warriors fan. The issue is with contracts and even being allowed to make a trade at all.
Kuminga is currently only making $7.6M and to be able to trade for some player that is going to help the team (a star level player) then the contract in return is anywhere from $30M to $50M. The Warriors are in a situation where they aren't allowed to take more money back in a trade than they are giving.
In order to trade for someone like LaVine, the Warriors would have to trade Andrew Wiggins (our main defender and second best player), likely Dennis Schroder (who hasn't played well, and we gave up 3 second round picks for no reason.. but also him included makes this only possible at the trade deadline which has more risk in trying to contend with only so little of the season left).
And then also, they'd have to trade someone like Jonathan Kuminga, Brandin Podziemski, Buddy Hield, Kyle Anderson, Gary Payton II or Kevon Looney.
Usually teams are going to want draft picks for a star as well, which is the reason it is so unlikely for the Warriors to trade for someone to help.
Also, it isn't that Kuminga doesn't want to be there, he just wanted a larger role and to be paid his contract.. and this season he has been given the role and it is believed he will get the contract or at least one similar. Kuminga also would be unlikely to leave in free agency as he would be restricted as a free agent so the Warriors could get him back if they wanted to, and it isn't realistic for them to let him leave for nothing.
Yea maybe not now? But y’all had a chance to get stars but wanted to keep those young guys around, now years later those guys haven’t shown much. you can find those tweets of GSW so easily btw
@@MLB123-r5tLavine has never been a target for the Warriors tho it was Lauri before he got paid, but they had players they could’ve traded for but just decided to stay stagnant
“I’m reading the CBA type shit” 😂😂😂
"Becoming" - 2017 started all of this with the MVP race
This exact mentality has burnt me out in bball… I was hate watching my okc thunder and now when they are good im burnt no longer hyper focused on it… trying to get the casual fan mentality
Realistically the draft lottery sucks. I’m a pats fan in the NFL and the hope that has gotten me through to watch all their games this year is knowing we’re gonna get a high pick, regardless and that last game against the bills I wanted to win bc I knew what pick i had secured. In the NBA I’m a blazers fan, and I’m the fan like your dad that’s gonna watch every game regardless and root for them, but it sucks to be in the position you’re in bc if you constantly keep getting unlucky with lottery with a 6th, 7th, 3rd and so on so forth (not the blazers picks but just an example) it never gives you that shot to have theoretically THE best player from the draft. *one more thing, I do get that the lottery is supposed to make people not tank but that’s a lie, everyone will still tank but the only exception is that you will have these teams tanking for longer until they get lucky rather than being able to get the 1st pick and get that franchise out
Very well said and thank you for putting all these thoughts out there!
I love this sentiment of fandom, but it's very easy to be cynical of your hometown team due to historically being incompetent. So in that same breath, that's why bandwagons shouldn't be shamed for rooting for a team that is actually competent
Man this is one of the best opinionated monologues I have ever heard regarding NBA fandom. Thanks Kenny.
As a Spurs fan, I honestly think they should go for Zach Lavine. Spurs need someone additional offensively. They can just throw out matching salary, maybe give the bulls their protected first back or seconds. They get an offensive powerhouse to play next to Wemby. Zach gets to play for a serious organization for the first time. Zach aint even 30 years old. The Spurs are good with playing guys limited minutes to extend their health. Spurs have no big salaries down the pipeline until 2 years from now when Wemby signs his extension and even that max money wont be that big cause its his first extension. Zach can extend on a more team friendly deal as he gets to his next deal and ages. This is almost a perfect fit to me. As long as the Bulls aren't demanding much, its a low risk high reward situation. Worse case Zach expires in two years and you trade his expiring deal for a different high salary guy
Man, thats the issue w/ U.S leagues, the mentality of winner takes it all but looser suffers no consequence. Experiment putting relegations into tournments, you'll see the swift change in nature of competitivity all around. But y'all not ready for this conversation
LaVine really came up short in the Kings game late in the 4th quarter.....he was cooking for the rest of the game
The real difference in what I think Kenny is trying to allude to with the culture of the NBA is how NBA fans are toxic with the technical stuff when it comes to the NBA. I say this as an NBA fan that only started watching the NBA during covid. I grew up watching football (soccer) and the real difference that you notice between Football and Basketball fans is how fans engage the technical stuff. There's a lot that can be said about "technical stuff" so to keep this brief, I'll mainly refer to a couple points Kenny mentions.
In football culture, fans don't pay attention to contracts and whether a team is tanking, for the most part because it doesn't affect a fans ability to hope for their team. You see the difference of this in Basketball culture where contracts and picks do significantly affect the fans ability to hope (either hoping to tank for a pick, or hoping to win for the playoffs).
Football focuses more on transfers whereas the NBA has trades (which I found very weird when I started watching but 30 teams only ehh), and in football, transfer fees are rarely an important point of discussion whereas the NBA, bro I'm still shocked Bradley Beal makes as much as he does with a no trade clause lmao, so yeah NBA its pretty interesting. And if you haven't guessed why the culture is like this you have to look at the political ideologies of America v Europe and you can see how cultures differ and how its reflected in sports.
Picks are great but I think they hurt the weaker teams more than they help because unless that tanking team lands a good-great pick, they most likely aren't competing for the POs. Football, you land in the bottom 3 you get relegated to a lower division, so teams are always trying.
Advanced stats are good for the sport, but for the most part toxic for the culture. Football fans only really use stats to criticize players whereas NBA fans use stats as a basis for every criticism. I know Mbappe isn'y playing well cause he only has x goals but he's a y type player vs Wemby is dpoy, he's averaging x blocks per game, his team's defensive rating with him on court v off court is y, and he's contesting z shots per game. (But this point is its own topic tbh cause the sports are very different)
And I think the way modern day NBA analysts and commentators talk about the sport isn't necessarily bad because people like you, Kenny, inform casual fans about things they should keep in mind while supporting their favorite teams. I remember the discourse about the era of Skip Bayless always hatewatching Lebron and I do think that has created or at least influenced the modern day toxic fandom we have where someone might use info they got from Kenny to go hate watch the Lakers or whoever. But for the most part, that's up to the fan because having informative commentators like Numbers on the Board rather than toxic ones like First Take, makes, the casual fan seem not so casual.