This is kinda genius writing. They sorta redeemed him without actually redeeming him. It only adds more complexity and depth to him, but never negates all the terrible things he did.
They focused on the white guy with 3 whole seasons of screentime while ignoring Trip. Again. And using the woman he threatened to rape in Season One to do it. Not really something to applaud.
@@frenchfries2998 What confuses you about the show focusing on Ward for three seasons, refusing to allow multiple men of color to be onscreen without killing one of them off (if they are black) or shoving them off to the side (if they are Latino), and giving Ward even more screentime instead of Trip. Am I supposed to care that the Nazi got some more screentime when the show fails men of color repeatedly?
@@Ang_Mystery_Lady Ur such an Emily. People like Ward because of his character arc. It's not because of Race. They focused on Ward because he had more to expand on than Trip and everybody loved him in the first season. Ward got more screen time because HE WAS a main character in season 1-3. So stop bringing race into a regular character arc. Also, by killing Trip, it motivated the team to complete the mission in the name of trip. The death of Trip symbolizes the fall of what Shield stands for. Like Coulson said, Trip embodied what Shield was about. That was his character arc. Besides, they later expanded on Mack who by the way became the Director of Shield. So please stop commenting that "Ward was making multiple men of color get less screen time."
@@bobanderson6008 Ward got more time than Trip because he was white, on a show that constantly only allowed multiple white people to share the screen while not being able to allow the same for people of color.
i think we need an alternative ending, where skye (sorry i like this name more) meets Ward after this episode.. "I didn't totally understand him, until i met you"
My friends and I are hoping that Season 7 will see the team using their time-travel tech to jump over to the movie-realm where (a) the Snap actually happened, (b) no Inhuman characters exist, and (c) Ward is a good guy. Regarding that middle point about Inhumans, we know now from the "Endgame" film that the movies and TV episodes take place in separate universes because none of the Inhuman characters from the "SHIELD" series or the "Inhumans" miniseries are seen when Doctor Strange shows up with all the other MCU superheroes and asks if ‘everyone’ is there. Hence, my friends and I speculate that, in the TV realm, King T'Challa (Black Panther) invited Black Bolt and other Inhumans to take refuge in or near Wakanda after they initially landed in Hawaii, and this made them available to fight alongside the Avengers when Thanos attacked. As a result, Black Bolt was there to use his ultra-powerful vocal cords to vaporize Thanos before he could snap his fingers, where as in the movie realm, Black Bolt’s absence allowed Thanos to succeed. As for how Ward would be a good guy in the movie realm, this is also related to lack of Inhumans there. According to the TV show, the Red Skull’s WW2 Hydra forces amalgamated with a religious cult that secretly worshiped the Inhuman leader Hive. But without the existence of Hive in the movie-realm, many of Hydra’s splinter groups and their leaders who were featured in the TV show never existed or never became evil - and this included characters such as Dr. Whitehall, General Hale, and also John Garrett . . . And without Garrett to recruit Ward into Hydra, Ward was instead recruited into SHIELD by Victoria Hand who nurtured him to be a good guy just like his Framework counterpart in Season 4. Such a crossover with the movie-realm would not only legitimize the TV series as being part of the MCU canon, but would also allow Ward to return as a real flesh-and-blood good guy who finally gets to go "Skye-Ward" with Daisy. Any thoughts or comments? Let me know.
@@CaptainBars This seems very possible to happen, since we already know that in this TV series, everything is possible. Your theory is well argumented and I really do hope that Grant Ward is coming back as a good guy, I really miss my season 1 SkyeWard relationship.🥺
I have never doubted Ward's dysfunctional love for Skye. This is so special and sweet they get to heal a huge betrayal. I cry every time I see this! I love how the writers shined yet another light on Ward. Brett Dalton is AMAZING as Grant.
@James Burnside Is something wrong with you? Did you respond to every year old Ward comment to romanticize the man who threatened to rape Daisy in the season one finale?
@@maximo_lopez Cute, literally not a single retort to ANY of my arguments? Just another aggressive accusation. It's good to know you can't actually argue your case in any meaningful way once you get even the tiniest amount of pressure. Do you respond to every response to a one year old comment you've made? Just curious because it seems like I really got under your skin there.
My friends and I are hoping that Season 7 will see the team using their time-travel tech to jump over to the movie-realm where (a) the Snap actually happened, (b) no Inhuman characters exist, and (c) Ward is a good guy. Regarding that middle point about Inhumans, we know now from the "Endgame" film that the movies and TV episodes take place in separate universes because none of the Inhuman characters from the "SHIELD" series or the "Inhumans" miniseries are seen when Doctor Strange shows up with all the other MCU superheroes and asks if ‘everyone’ is there. Hence, my friends and I speculate that, in the TV realm, King T'Challa (Black Panther) invited Black Bolt and other Inhumans to take refuge in or near Wakanda after they initially landed in Hawaii, and this made them available to fight alongside the Avengers when Thanos attacked. As a result, Black Bolt was there to use his ultra-powerful vocal cords to vaporize Thanos before he could snap his fingers, where as in the movie realm, Black Bolt’s absence allowed Thanos to succeed. As for how Ward would be a good guy in the movie realm, this is also related to lack of Inhumans there. According to the TV show, the Red Skull’s WW2 Hydra forces amalgamated with a religious cult that secretly worshiped the Inhuman leader Hive. But without the existence of Hive in the movie-realm, many of Hydra’s splinter groups and their leaders who were featured in the TV show never existed or never became evil - and this included characters such as Dr. Whitehall, General Hale, and also John Garrett . . . And without Garrett to recruit Ward into Hydra, Ward was instead recruited into SHIELD by Victoria Hand who nurtured him to be a good guy just like his Framework counterpart in Season 4. Such a crossover with the movie-realm would not only legitimize the TV series as being part of the MCU canon, but would also allow Ward to return as a real flesh-and-blood good guy who finally gets to go "Skye-Ward" with Daisy. Any thoughts or comments? Let me know.
@@philcoulson845 Not very long. I composed it Microsoft Word, ran it through a grammar checker, then simply highlighted the entire composition by holding down the keyboard's CTRL button and press the "A" key. Then, after clicking the "copy" icon, I moved over to UA-cam, right-clicked the mouse, selected the "paste" option, and (boom) instant essay in the comments section. Hope you liked reading it. Too bad my prediction for Ward's return in Season 7 didn't come to pass.
@@CaptainBars I did very much enjoy reading your theory, and it is a real shame that Ward did not return, the team could have even made and LMD Ward and programmed it to be loyal to shield, so they could have Ward back at least, but the only flaw in this is that Fitz would kill it because Ward dropped him to the bottom of the ocean and, oh wait there’s another flaw... The team wouldn’t resurrect Ward as an LMD because most of the team hates his guts.....
Brett Dalton did an outstanding job as Grant Ward. He played 4 different versions of Grant Ward. SHIELD Ward, Hydra Ward, Hives Ward and Framework Ward.
"For what it's worth... I hope that Skye comes back to you." Damn that was a really sweet way of saying she forgives Ward's character in the real world.
I don't think she forgave the real Ward, but instead she finally understood that he wasn't all bad. She acknowledged that Framework Ward was a good person, and deserved good things, so she wished that he would have Framework Skye.
And yet, some people still stubbornly try to deny it. I even saw one guy say that Victoria Hand was probably evil in the Framework, to try to justify how this Ward could still be evil... :/
Malcolm Ferguson Believe me I want to believe it as I was pleasantly surprised when he revealed himself as a good guy. This Ward actually apologizing to a hostile Simmons for his counterpart's actions and this video with his conversation with Daisy and him understanding their animosity for his counterpart should be further proofs that he's truly different from the Ward Daisy and Simmons knew and loathed. However, even with all of this, I still am not sure as there's three episodes left of both the arc and the season.
the framework kind of proved that being manipulated to be evil depends on your influences.. garrett/ward and fitz/his father. Of course there are really bad persons that do bad and don't fell any kind of regret about it, like gideon malick for example.. but ward, when he throws fitzsimmons on the water, you see that he doesn't really want to do that, like the doctor, he is bad on his father influence but you see the old fitz there it, he tries to show that he is the all badass hydra leader but he doesn't really like doing that
The scene solidifed that this show continued to fail giving men of color screentime in favor of white men. Trip was a hero. Ward was a Nazi. And which one was given screentime? Followed by the show making a white slaver a regular member rather than making up for their failures with black men (who they kept killing off) and Latinos (who they gave mininal screentime to).
I know this is a heartfelt scene, but ..."When you go, will I get my Skye back?" "I honestly don't know, but she was Hydra so..." "Well, every relationship has its ups and downs." That exchange made me laugh.
Christy Snell that line..."Do I get my Skye back?" It resonates with him. He's someone who's been "Underground" for so long, being a double-agent for S.H.I.E.L.D. (or HYDRA), and she is his "Sky", a place of freedom and openness where the boundaries just don't exist anymore.
I stared writing a fanfic about what would happen if Ward did get his Skye back. Let’s just say she wasn’t in a position that made her happy to see him.
The real world Ward was a good guy somewhere (very) deep inside. He was damaged and misguided and thought that everyone betrayed him. When he tried to make things right everyone turned his back on him and Simmons even tried to kill him. Yes he did a lot of bad things, but in the end even Coulson admitted that he helped to create this "monster". And Daisy got this as well in framework. 10/10 antihero/villain. Definitely one of the highlights of the show.
+ Edward Cotton Lets not blame other people for Ward's actions. Coulson didn't make Ward align with Hydra; he did that years before when he joined Garrett, and he was old enough to know better. Daisy also had an awful childhood, but unlike Ward, she never used that as an excuse to hurt people. Ward joined an offshoot of Nazis and even brought Hydra back because he was a terrible person who blamed other people for his actions. Even Ward's younger brother criticized him.
Yeah that was the whole point of Framework Fitz. Give a man a few tiny changed variables in his childhood and he goes from adorable science geek to evil Nazi doctor. And Ward was not 'old enough to know better' he was fifteen! A young isolated fifteen year old with anger issues, I.E the demographic hate groups like Neo Nazi's love to try to recruit since they are still learning how the world works and can be easily swayed with strong words and a promise of purpose. Ward's story is identical to so many young men who ended up joining hate groups. Plus Garrett told him he was joining SHIELD, not HYDRA. Only after five years of having Ward under his thumb did he even mention HYDRA and by that point Ward pretty much knew nothing except his loyalty to Garrett. Skye had a shitty childhood but Ward had a lifetime of manipulation.
+ James Burnside Daisy is proof that having an abusive childhood isn't an excuse for doing evil as an adult, and Ward deciding to participate in genocide, commit murder, and threaten to rape Daisy in the season one finale isn't excused just because he had a bad childhood. Actual abuse victims have continually asked folks like you to stop pulling that shit just because you stan a Nazi.
I'd prefer to see men of character get roles on this show that don't end in them dying (Trip, Andrew, Gonzales) or with them having brief periods of screentime (Joey and Robbie).
They could do that but wouldn’t that mean he would also have to die again because technically he’d also be a creation of the Dark Hold just like Aida’s human body. I don’t think Ghost Rider would allow for even the good version of Ward to live because his new body would be created by energy from a different dimension.
It’s to bad cause, the other world got destroyed, and they all got erased. But hopefully ward ended up happy either way. So In the end there wasn’t much left of him, it would of been better if the other world stayed and ward would live a happy life there
I think this scene shows that Skye/Daisy and Ward did have a genuine connection and that their feelings for each other were real, but Ward's betrayal made their relationship impossible. His offenses were too great, and even though Ward really did love Daisy, there was no way he could come back from all of the horrible things he did. In this scene Daisy finally understands that the person Ward became was all because of his circumstance.
The saddest part is that she understands too late to change anything. By this point Ward is long dead and she has to live with the fact that had she been able to forgive him things would've been a lot different
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva Ward's victims, including Daisy (who he threatened to rape in season one), had to put up with an iteration of him in the Framework. I'm not sure why that would confuse you.
Maximo Lopez Ward didn’t wanna rape her. I mean remember at the end of the first Thor episode after the berserker staffs effects wore off on him. Skye offered to sleep with him to make him feel better but instead he slept with May because she also held the staff and her cavalry side came out so she was the only one who understood Wards pain. Ward then revealed to Loreilie that he didn’t really love May but he loved someone else (Daisy) Rana then tells Whitehall in season 2 that Ward loves Skye and he thinks if he helps her become a monster like her parents then she’d finally understand why Ward does terrible things and then she’d love him for it. Ward never wanted to rape her he just wanted to wake up the monster inside Daisy so that they could be monsters together.
I’d like to point out that Ward’s first thought for what happened to the “real him” was that he was locked up, even though he learned about a lot of the stuff his “real self” did. Shows that even though he is a hardened agent, he is not a wanton murderer. His first instinct is to contain, not kill. Hand would be proud of the boy she trained. He became a better man than her.
Even real Ward was good at containing threats (instead of killing) in SHIELD’s name until they got close to discovering Garrett. He also “allegedly” didn’t want to kill FitzSimmons (but would’ve if they hadn’t locked themselves in the cubicle)
"I didn't totally understand him, until I met you" This is the moment Daisy realised the real Ward truly loved her. Radcliffe said the true nature of character does not change in Framework, further proven by May's defection because she is highly sensitive about children (the defection, to me, mirrors May's character change from warm to cold in real world)
Yeah, the moment she met a fake version of Ward is the moment she realized the guy who became a Nazi, helped enslave a black man, participated in a genocide, and threatened to rape her truly 'loved her.' Yup...
@@pollogaming919 Ward was a member of Hydra. He helped force Mike into servitude to Hydra. He participated in Hydra's act of genocide when they revealed themselves. He threatened to rape Daisy in the season one finale. That you want to pretend that a grown man isn't accountable for his actions because you stan the character doesn't change the truth of the narrative.
Possibly my favourite moment in all of Season 4. The audience knew the real Ward had good in him despite everything because we saw all of his scenes. But for Daisy to realise it as well is a major payoff to his character. Also I wonder if now Daisy is actually having major regrets, because maybe if they had treated Ward differently after his betrayal when he tried to make amends, they might have gotten their friend back after all. The way she said "all along" just made me think of that.
I was so glad Ward had a kind of redemption, even if it was just in the framework! When he was revealed as Hydra, I was so much like Fitz, hoping and pleading he would be on the good side again. I really loved Ward's character and so sad to see him go. But I'm glad the team (and the audience) got to see THIS side of him, and have a kind of redemptive experience.
Unfortunately only Coulson & Daisy got to know this side of him. Simmons still ignored him due to her hatred of the real world Ward, May still had her Framework personality for the most part & didn't get to know this Ward, and Fitz was The Doctor, and he never got to know Framework Ward.
Wow the feels. In a way Daisy meeting fw Ward is verification of what the real Ward told Daisy. He blamed Garrett & his family entirely for what he became and now this holds true. In the fw it was Victoria Hand who had came to recruit him to Shield and you see how this version of him turned out. It just goes to show it takes 1 person to negatively or positively impact somebody for life.
That comes across like you're saying Ward wasn't responsible for his own actions when he was. He was a bad guy. What Ward said to Daisy turned out not to be true.
Funny, that's not at all what they said. And how did it "turn out not to be true", when it's a matter of opinion? A person can be responsible for their actions, but other people also can be responsible for making them into what they are.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva That's exactly how it came across, and the OP never clarified the statement. Also, Ward was old enough to know better when he willingly aligned himself with Garrett, so he was responsible for his actions. He was old enough to know better than to side with Garrett. Daisy also had an abusive childhood, but she never became Ward - she never used her history as an excuse to hurt people.
Maximo Lopez It's almost like all those characters are different people who grew up in different circumstances and had drastically different developments. Amazing! And could it be that the whole point of the Framework arc was to point out how no one is inherently good or bad, and that circumstances and experiences shape who we are. Like the way Framework Ward was also abused, but had Hand as mentor instead of Garrett and turned out differently. Or how Framework Fitz was brought up by hid father rather than his mother and had Ophelia instead of Simmons and turned out differently. Looks like the point about human nature went way over your head.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva Since no one ever said that Ward was inherently bad (Coulson even said he thought there was some good in Ward in season two), focusing on an overexposed character who was a Nazi in the MCU - at the expense of Trip, who was marginalized in season two - seems shortsighted. Looks like the point I made eluded you because you were only focused on Ward.
I love how Ward has essentially 3 “deaths.” His first time was the real person: Grant Ward. Killed by his worst actions coming back to bite him, or crush him in that instance. Hive is sort of what the team saw Ward as, a narcissistic, nigh-unstoppable psychopath. But it isn’t until we see this Ward, a representation of the good we saw he was capable of for most of the 1st season, that we truly see him die. This is the Ward Skye fell in love with, and in this he gets an opportunity to fight Hydra, and win. This show, while not perfect, is a better comic book story brought to live action than the entirety of the MCU. I don’t care what others say. It truly understood what comics were, thanks to being made by someone who had written several. I view this whole show as Jed Whedon’s absolutely killer run on the Agents of SHIELD comic series. Let’s hope whoever gets to use these characters next handles them as well as they deserve. You hear that, Secret Invasion? You bring in a character from this show and they aren’t as good as we know them, you won’t make it past episode 3. I would love to see an epilogue story. Maybe like Pulp Fiction, 3 sort stories contained within a movie. The Framework being righted, with Ward and Skye(who have gotten married) leading a new SHIELD. Deke struggling with leading SHIELD in the 80s. And some 3rd option I can’t decide on. Maybe YoYo taking on her first big villain, a returned Blizzard. Possibly a tease for Secret Invasion, with Daisy, Kora and Sousa being brought into whatever is going on with the Skrulls by Fury.
When this Ward is willing to stick by his Skye even though she is Hydra, but when it was reversed in the real world Skye couldn't do it for Ward. Miss them so much. He truly did love her and I hope Skye realized that
One more thing I've noticed in this is when Grant says that the real Grant definitely was a jerk, Daisy opens up her mouth as if she's about to argue, but than shuts it, letting him finish the thought. And, one the old ones, but still worth it, is Daisy sounds both relieved and hurt (like "I'm about to cry" level of hurt, which is supported by the rapid blinking she does afterwards, which we do when we want to hold the tears in) when saying she thinks there was some good in Ward all along, because it hurts to say it, when he's gone and it's too late to do something about it, but it's also relieving to finally say it, instead of playing the theatrical part of "prove me you hate him" with all the shooting and the "I will never forgive him". On the side note, I do think it's after Framework Simmons actually stops constantly shit talk about Grant around Skye (and at all?), which is nice.
Also, I'm still tired of ppl that hate Ward (it's opinion, I'm fine, but don't lie) making the SkyeWard ship into the beauty and the beast trope, when it's obviously Romeo and Juliette (opposite sides, father figures weighing over them, no happy end, nobody has ever talked about Skye "saving" (or not saving) Ward, just about the team giving him the chance before it got to the point of him thinking nothing's gonna get him that chance).
no matter how overused wards character has become, this is a gret actor! even tough he played the same person in every season, he allways had to give that character annother twist
This scene hit me sooo hard. It's like I'm seeing closure to something I never thought I would get the chance to. I know everyone wants to renew this show, but unless they have a better way to cap off this series I think this year should be it unfortunately. They'll never get another chance like this reward fans in a final arc
@@akbarkhan6772 I’m honestly surprised S7 was as good as it was. I know a lot of people would disagree but I think the moment they got out of the framework the show had a steady decline in quality all the way through to S6, even if it was a slow decline, but those closing minutes were wonderful 😢 I just wish Marvel Studios played ball with them after S4 ended. The trajectory they could have gone within the larger MCU would have been something else
The fans of Trip were not rewarded. He wasn't given much just so the show could give attention to a character who got 3 seasons of screentime. A guy who threatened to rape Skye/Daisy.
@@Ang_Mystery_Lady what's with you and so called rape threat ? I saw people in multiple comment sections mentioning same, love it or lose it.. if u don't like a character ignore it and focus on what u like, why are u spoiling other people's love on Ward's character?
This season was amazing and it's getting better with every new episode. it definitely deserves a 5th season with this Ward, I always ship them the most since the beginning #SkyeWardForever
It's gonna hurt so bad if he doesn't return to the real world. I think Daisy realized here that as much as she cared about Lincoln (ugh), it was Ward that she loved.
futuremovieactor i think she realized that even if he was on "the other side " he loved her so she realized that he was loyal with garrett but was always sincere with her and really cared about her she s the one who didn t give him a chance to really redeem himself because she thought he was playing her
futuremovieactor actually daisy doesn't love ward. She did until he betrayed her but she loved lincoln much more... in this conversation she just realized that ward was actually a good person and he needed someone to help him bring out the good of himself. She kind of felt sorry that she just hated ward after he betrayed them ... and didn't help him.
I'm sorry, but no to loving Lincoln. No. I don't doubt she cared about him and felt immense guilt when he died, but he was a replacement for Ward. He felt too much like one anyway.
Lincoln was not a replacement. He was light and bright and funny, and was a great boyfriend where Ward was always a broken man looking for someone to hold on to, for his own mental stability. Both relationships had a completely different meaning and it's wrong to say she didn't love Lincoln. And I didn't even like Lincoln that much.
I don’t know mannn the fact that ward and Skye were together in the framework, makes me feel like they’re supposed to be together and I hope they find a way to bring him back
+ Edgar Robledo Ward repeatedly hurt Daisy over and over again, to the point of threatening to rape her in the season one finale. Like Chloe Bennet said, let's not romanticize Ward.
@@loganbigmo In the season one finale. There are screenshots of the scene here: hamsterfactor.tumblr.com/post/86608672175/1x20-nothing-personal-1x22-beginning-of-the-end
If this is the last we see of Ward (Bret Dalton has stated he won't be returning to the series) then this was the perfect send off for the Ward character. We see the good man he could've and would've been if not for Garrett. We see him be the hero he could've been. And in a way, we got to finally see SkyWard and what they could've been. A fitting end to maybe the best character in AOS.
i feel like daisy's regret was Ward all together, everything that happened between them and also for not finding/bringing out his good side. i personally believe that she could've convinced him to side with shield if she had just gotten past the 'shock' of him being hydra if she had just tried and i really hope that at least ward or Lincoln come back before the ending of the show cause daisy deserves to be happy.
1:29 Ward doesn't care if Skye is Hydra, he's willing to forgive, that's something "Daisy" would never do, all she cares about, is if they work for the same fucking people....
@@dxxgx6713 Umm...... If you are referring to my first response to you I was actually being 100% serious. I never really analyzed this scene that closely nor did I recognize that moment for what it was like you did. My comment was not meant to be taken as sarcasm.
Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. is set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU), acknowledging the continuity of the franchise's films and other television series.
At least Framework had shown Ward's good side, that he can still be a good guy, from season 2 i wanted to see him on the good side. Too bad that he can't be good in actual reality.
They have to end with the whole original bus team and we need a proper goodbye of Ward to the whole team (especially a scene between Coulson and Ward/ Fitz and Ward /Daisy and Ward)
@@knjsd9480 Yes you read my mind. They're time travelling so it was be perfect to visit the bus again and join the original team on a mission. This may be pushing it, but I would like Daisy to tell her past self to give Ward another chance maybe even confront him about hydra before he drops FitzSimmons out of the plane. Not sure if they'll try and change time in the season. Brett Dalton said he wouldn't appear in season 7 and same for the actress of Bobbi but I hope they're lying to make it a suprise.
The Framework Grant Ward should've been uploaded into an LMD so that he could exist outside the Framework. if you can have LMD Coulson in S7 then why not LMD Framework Grant Ward? Brett Dalton is one of the OG Cast members yet this is the last time we see him. He doesn't reappear in seasons 5, 6, or 7. Not even the finale. What a shame. He should've been in the 100th episode, and in the series finale if anything. Either that, or S.H.I.E.L.D. should've saved an alternate timeline Grant Ward in S7 instead of Daniel Sousa.
I feel like they should have included a scene in which the framework Skye came back to Ward after Daisy and the others left the framework. That way it would have given us the perfect skyeward moment they we have been waiting for since season one without changing Daisy's character development.
What look? You're really reaching. So you're saying she was lying and pretending when she was talking to him? Why the fuck would she do that? You're a good example that extreme character hate makes you stupid.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva I'm saying the fact that she looked completely disinterested as he walked away spoke volumes for the character. Just because you like the character doesn't mean she does. Also, FYI, calling me stupid doesn't strengthen your argument.
I'm saying that extreme character hate tends to make people act stupid - like losing all the ability to understand the story being told - and make stupid arguments. And just because you hate a character 100%, doesn't mean that character in-universe have to have as one-dimensional thoughts/feelings about them. Just because you don't like the message of a scene or arc, doesn't mean you have to completely ignore it and try to prove it doesn't exist. That's a stupid way to watch a show or enjoy any piece of fiction. As an example, you're really, really reaching with your "she looks disinterested, so obviously she didn't mean any of it". How does that even make sense? What, she was lying to Framework Ward and just pretending when she said all those things? Why the hell would she do that? And furthermore, what on Earth do you imagine the writers were going for, if that's what you believe? You think they were trying to show that Daisy is a pathological liar who pretends and says things she doesn't believe in, for absolutely no reason? What?
I think the relationship between Skye/Daisy and Ward just reminds me about the Darkling and Alina in Ruin and Rising just that the Darkling and Ward both had something good in them but some things have changed them when they could’ve been good 😭
Man when Ward asked her, 'Will I get my Skye back?' I felt that.. i wished they woulda took framework Ward and built him a real body in the real world like Aida did. I thought Ward was cheesy beginning of season 1 but damn i missed Ward so much after getting to know and understand him
I wished Trip had been given some significant screentime during this storyline. After three seasons of Ward, I have no idea why the show decided to put him in a storyline that made no sense - like "Skye" being with Hyra and somehow meeting Ward.
Maybe if you used your brain and tried to pay attention, you'd see that the storyline made perfect sense and was very meaningful. Trip got quite a lot of screentime - and they did exactly all that they could with his character: have him meet Daisy, Simmons and Coulson and provide emotional closure for his teammates. There was even Daisy telling him to be the next Patriot. There wasn't much else to do with Trip, since he was 100% the same as in the real world, and let's be honest, he never was a particularly complex character to begin with. Framework Ward, on the other hand, was the most meaningful character comeback in the Framework by far - not only was there a lot of emotional closure for the main characters, but his own storyline was crucial, together with Framework Fitz, for the main point of the arc: the fact that circumstances and experiences shape who we are, and that just one moment, one person, one event can change the course of a life and shape a person into the good or bad version of themselves. (As to how she met Ward in the Framework? Probably the same way she did in the real life - researching SHIELD/Hydra for the information on her parents. That's probably one of the Framework plots that needs least explaining and speculation.)
this scene was masterfully written and showed despite all the horrible cruel shit ward did at the end of the day if circumstances were different he could of very much avoided turning into the monster that caused his own demise I love how it leaves you with what could of been which is honestly the best thing the best outcome for this character I actually respect the writers for not bringing him back he found his closure.
Here about a week after the finale. Everything with him in Season 4, Hand killing Garrett in the alternate timeline and Coulson defending Ward to Cora was all very cathartic. Also, while I like Souza, I was really wishing this Ward would have come to the regular timeline even if he didn’t end up with Daisy.
Especially since Daisy, after seeing how Ward would've turned out if he hadn't met Garrett or HYDRA, should've saved Ward from that path in the alternate timeline, and brought him to their timeline.
Even when he sided with hydra Ward always had redeemable qualities season 4 just showed that. He was a victim of John Garrett who he thought was the only person who ever believed in him so despite the fact that he was obviously conflicted I understand why he ultimately chose the life he did. The framework saga just portrayed him as the man that he really was inside
I think the good in Agent Ward that Daisy was referring to was the love he had for her; despite all the crooked grimy s*** that he did he truly did love her. Maybe if he continued to be on the show maybe they would have made a storyline where Daisy would have either understood him or forgave him
Daisy: I guess there was some good in him after all. Well duh, you realised something that was obvious 3 seasons ago but whatever. Too bad there wasn't understanding when he was in your custody.
I loved this because it showed another side of Ward and gave Daisy closure and the chance to let go of her anger for him without ever trying to erase or forgive the horrific things he did. Real world Ward never deserved a redemption arc but Daisy needed the chance to understand things.
I don’t care what anyone says , I still wish we got to see this version of Ward return in the finale season , it would’ve been nice seeing this side of him with the team one more time.
This makes me think... if Ward did happen to get his “Skye” back, would she now have inhuman quake powers? I mean it doesn’t really matter since in about like an hour they are erased for existence anyways, it’s still fun to think about.
This scene looks more like a clarification and a farewell.Thanks to the framework, she closes the chapter with lincoln and ward, she can now move foward and she will problably become the next director of shield in the last 2 episodes
Making ward hydra in season 1 was to obvious it should have been Fitz or Simmons no one would have seen that coming but having ward it seems clear that he is not truthful
They needed to make him a body with project looking glass. Then he could have gone through the backdoor with them and an actual skyward would be possible.🎉🎉🎉
Marvel should have brought him to real world using some kind of theory or tech but it would have been great seeing ward again with the team would have been great
I'm hoping to keep AIDA and Ivanov from getting human bodies, Ward and Hope end up transferring out of the framework and into the real world. So many feels in this scene! OMG!
![Ward Drops FitzSimmons in the Ocean - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. [1x21]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JyIqEq7rfPk/mqdefault.jpg)
![Ward Drops FitzSimmons in the Ocean - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. [1x21]](/img/tr.png)
![Ward & Skye || Their Story - Say Something [1x01-1x22]](/img/n.gif)
This is kinda genius writing. They sorta redeemed him without actually redeeming him. It only adds more complexity and depth to him, but never negates all the terrible things he did.
They focused on the white guy with 3 whole seasons of screentime while ignoring Trip. Again. And using the woman he threatened to rape in Season One to do it. Not really something to applaud.
@@Ang_Mystery_Lady what-
@@frenchfries2998 What confuses you about the show focusing on Ward for three seasons, refusing to allow multiple men of color to be onscreen without killing one of them off (if they are black) or shoving them off to the side (if they are Latino), and giving Ward even more screentime instead of Trip.
Am I supposed to care that the Nazi got some more screentime when the show fails men of color repeatedly?
@@Ang_Mystery_Lady Ur such an Emily. People like Ward because of his character arc. It's not because of Race. They focused on Ward because he had more to expand on than Trip and everybody loved him in the first season. Ward got more screen time because HE WAS a main character in season 1-3. So stop bringing race into a regular character arc. Also, by killing Trip, it motivated the team to complete the mission in the name of trip. The death of Trip symbolizes the fall of what Shield stands for. Like Coulson said, Trip embodied what Shield was about. That was his character arc. Besides, they later expanded on Mack who by the way became the Director of Shield. So please stop commenting that "Ward was making multiple men of color get less screen time."
@@bobanderson6008 Ward got more time than Trip because he was white, on a show that constantly only allowed multiple white people to share the screen while not being able to allow the same for people of color.
"After you're gone... do I get my Skye back?"
Ugh that hurt :'(
i think we need an alternative ending, where skye (sorry i like this name more) meets Ward after this episode..
"I didn't totally understand him, until i met you"
My friends and I are hoping that Season 7 will see the team using their time-travel tech to jump over to the movie-realm where (a) the Snap actually happened, (b) no Inhuman characters exist, and (c) Ward is a good guy.
Regarding that middle point about Inhumans, we know now from the "Endgame" film that the movies and TV episodes take place in separate universes because none of the Inhuman characters from the "SHIELD" series or the "Inhumans" miniseries are seen when Doctor Strange shows up with all the other MCU superheroes and asks if ‘everyone’ is there.
Hence, my friends and I speculate that, in the TV realm, King T'Challa (Black Panther) invited Black Bolt and other Inhumans to take refuge in or near Wakanda after they initially landed in Hawaii, and this made them available to fight alongside the Avengers when Thanos attacked. As a result, Black Bolt was there to use his ultra-powerful vocal cords to vaporize Thanos before he could snap his fingers, where as in the movie realm, Black Bolt’s absence allowed Thanos to succeed.
As for how Ward would be a good guy in the movie realm, this is also related to lack of Inhumans there. According to the TV show, the Red Skull’s WW2 Hydra forces amalgamated with a religious cult that secretly worshiped the Inhuman leader Hive. But without the existence of Hive in the movie-realm, many of Hydra’s splinter groups and their leaders who were featured in the TV show never existed or never became evil - and this included characters such as Dr. Whitehall, General Hale, and also John Garrett . . . And without Garrett to recruit Ward into Hydra, Ward was instead recruited into SHIELD by Victoria Hand who nurtured him to be a good guy just like his Framework counterpart in Season 4.
Such a crossover with the movie-realm would not only legitimize the TV series as being part of the MCU canon, but would also allow Ward to return as a real flesh-and-blood good guy who finally gets to go "Skye-Ward" with Daisy. Any thoughts or comments? Let me know.
@@CaptainBars This seems very possible to happen, since we already know that in this TV series, everything is possible. Your theory is well argumented and I really do hope that Grant Ward is coming back as a good guy, I really miss my season 1 SkyeWard relationship.🥺
I felt the same way about that line. :(
That make me tear up
I have never doubted Ward's dysfunctional love for Skye. This is so special and sweet they get to heal a huge betrayal. I cry every time I see this! I love how the writers shined yet another light on Ward. Brett Dalton is AMAZING as Grant.
I'm glad Daisy looks like she could care less as Ward walks away.
Only this Ward does
The real World didn't care about her
Jesus Ramirez Romo in the real world Skye was one of the only people ward cared about
@James Burnside Is something wrong with you? Did you respond to every year old Ward comment to romanticize the man who threatened to rape Daisy in the season one finale?
@@maximo_lopez Cute, literally not a single retort to ANY of my arguments? Just another aggressive accusation. It's good to know you can't actually argue your case in any meaningful way once you get even the tiniest amount of pressure. Do you respond to every response to a one year old comment you've made? Just curious because it seems like I really got under your skin there.
"Do I get my Skye back?" my poor skyeward heart
My friends and I are hoping that Season 7 will see the team using their time-travel tech to jump over to the movie-realm where (a) the Snap actually happened, (b) no Inhuman characters exist, and (c) Ward is a good guy.
Regarding that middle point about Inhumans, we know now from the "Endgame" film that the movies and TV episodes take place in separate universes because none of the Inhuman characters from the "SHIELD" series or the "Inhumans" miniseries are seen when Doctor Strange shows up with all the other MCU superheroes and asks if ‘everyone’ is there.
Hence, my friends and I speculate that, in the TV realm, King T'Challa (Black Panther) invited Black Bolt and other Inhumans to take refuge in or near Wakanda after they initially landed in Hawaii, and this made them available to fight alongside the Avengers when Thanos attacked. As a result, Black Bolt was there to use his ultra-powerful vocal cords to vaporize Thanos before he could snap his fingers, where as in the movie realm, Black Bolt’s absence allowed Thanos to succeed.
As for how Ward would be a good guy in the movie realm, this is also related to lack of Inhumans there. According to the TV show, the Red Skull’s WW2 Hydra forces amalgamated with a religious cult that secretly worshiped the Inhuman leader Hive. But without the existence of Hive in the movie-realm, many of Hydra’s splinter groups and their leaders who were featured in the TV show never existed or never became evil - and this included characters such as Dr. Whitehall, General Hale, and also John Garrett . . . And without Garrett to recruit Ward into Hydra, Ward was instead recruited into SHIELD by Victoria Hand who nurtured him to be a good guy just like his Framework counterpart in Season 4.
Such a crossover with the movie-realm would not only legitimize the TV series as being part of the MCU canon, but would also allow Ward to return as a real flesh-and-blood good guy who finally gets to go "Skye-Ward" with Daisy. Any thoughts or comments? Let me know.
Chad Stavebank I hope that happens too
@@CaptainBars Wow, how long did it take to type that?! Lol
@@philcoulson845 Not very long. I composed it Microsoft Word, ran it through a grammar checker, then simply highlighted the entire composition by holding down the keyboard's CTRL button and press the "A" key. Then, after clicking the "copy" icon, I moved over to UA-cam, right-clicked the mouse, selected the "paste" option, and (boom) instant essay in the comments section. Hope you liked reading it. Too bad my prediction for Ward's return in Season 7 didn't come to pass.
@@CaptainBars I did very much enjoy reading your theory, and it is a real shame that Ward did not return, the team could have even made and LMD Ward and programmed it to be loyal to shield, so they could have Ward back at least, but the only flaw in this is that Fitz would kill it because Ward dropped him to the bottom of the ocean and, oh wait there’s another flaw... The team wouldn’t resurrect Ward as an LMD because most of the team hates his guts.....
Brett Dalton did an outstanding job as Grant Ward. He played 4 different versions of Grant Ward. SHIELD Ward, Hydra Ward, Hives Ward and Framework Ward.
They need to bring this Ward back to the real world! I need him, Brett is awesome. This Ward with Daisy is just... pure love
theearthsonfire unfortunately writers disagreed 😢
CONSTELLATION The writers disagreed...about what?
Bringing Ward back.
Natascha think you Ward come back in season 5 ?
I don't think Ward's victims needed to put up with him, much less the woman he threatened to rape in the season one finale.
"For what it's worth... I hope that Skye comes back to you." Damn that was a really sweet way of saying she forgives Ward's character in the real world.
I don't think she forgave the real Ward, but instead she finally understood that he wasn't all bad. She acknowledged that Framework Ward was a good person, and deserved good things, so she wished that he would have Framework Skye.
@@loganbigmo I agree. I mean it'd be hard to forgive real Ward.
This scene finally solidified that this Ward is truly on the side of good.
And yet, some people still stubbornly try to deny it. I even saw one guy say that Victoria Hand was probably evil in the Framework, to try to justify how this Ward could still be evil... :/
Malcolm Ferguson Believe me I want to believe it as I was pleasantly surprised when he revealed himself as a good guy. This Ward actually apologizing to a hostile Simmons for his counterpart's actions and this video with his conversation with Daisy and him understanding their animosity for his counterpart should be further proofs that he's truly different from the Ward Daisy and Simmons knew and loathed. However, even with all of this, I still am not sure as there's three episodes left of both the arc and the season.
the framework kind of proved that being manipulated to be evil depends on your influences.. garrett/ward and fitz/his father. Of course there are really bad persons that do bad and don't fell any kind of regret about it, like gideon malick for example.. but ward, when he throws fitzsimmons on the water, you see that he doesn't really want to do that, like the doctor, he is bad on his father influence but you see the old fitz there it, he tries to show that he is the all badass hydra leader but he doesn't really like doing that
The scene solidifed that this show continued to fail giving men of color screentime in favor of white men. Trip was a hero. Ward was a Nazi. And which one was given screentime? Followed by the show making a white slaver a regular member rather than making up for their failures with black men (who they kept killing off) and Latinos (who they gave mininal screentime to).
@@maximo_lopez this show has nothing to do with race. Go get a brain you dumb@ss
I know this is a heartfelt scene, but ..."When you go, will I get my Skye back?" "I honestly don't know, but she was Hydra so..." "Well, every relationship has its ups and downs." That exchange made me laugh.
Christy Snell that line..."Do I get my Skye back?"
It resonates with him. He's someone who's been "Underground" for so long, being a double-agent for S.H.I.E.L.D. (or HYDRA), and she is his "Sky", a place of freedom and openness where the boundaries just don't exist anymore.
I stared writing a fanfic about what would happen if Ward did get his Skye back. Let’s just say she wasn’t in a position that made her happy to see him.
But the immediate follow-up line was "We'll get through it." And this made the exchange sad, serious, and sweet again.
@@huntcd2012 I’m 4 years late but could you tell me where and what is the fanfic 😅🥲
@@huntcd2012whats the link to the fic
Daisy's deepest regret: not being able to save Ward from himself, or being able to love him.
both
Barbara Chevallier exactly.
JP Gorski so true
even if she tried to love him she can't love a monster who tried to kill her friends
Given that AIDA didn't scan Daisy's brain or reprogram the Framework around Daisy, that's clearly not the case.
Daisy once said that she will never forgive Ward, but now I think maybe she can.
His real-world counterpart she'll never forgive but can make an exception to the Framework Ward the more he shows how different he is to him.
The real world Ward was a good guy somewhere (very) deep inside. He was damaged and misguided and thought that everyone betrayed him. When he tried to make things right everyone turned his back on him and Simmons even tried to kill him. Yes he did a lot of bad things, but in the end even Coulson admitted that he helped to create this "monster". And Daisy got this as well in framework. 10/10 antihero/villain. Definitely one of the highlights of the show.
+ Edward Cotton Lets not blame other people for Ward's actions. Coulson didn't make Ward align with Hydra; he did that years before when he joined Garrett, and he was old enough to know better. Daisy also had an awful childhood, but unlike Ward, she never used that as an excuse to hurt people. Ward joined an offshoot of Nazis and even brought Hydra back because he was a terrible person who blamed other people for his actions. Even Ward's younger brother criticized him.
Yeah that was the whole point of Framework Fitz. Give a man a few tiny changed variables in his childhood and he goes from adorable science geek to evil Nazi doctor.
And Ward was not 'old enough to know better' he was fifteen! A young isolated fifteen year old with anger issues, I.E the demographic hate groups like Neo Nazi's love to try to recruit since they are still learning how the world works and can be easily swayed with strong words and a promise of purpose. Ward's story is identical to so many young men who ended up joining hate groups.
Plus Garrett told him he was joining SHIELD, not HYDRA. Only after five years of having Ward under his thumb did he even mention HYDRA and by that point Ward pretty much knew nothing except his loyalty to Garrett. Skye had a shitty childhood but Ward had a lifetime of manipulation.
+ James Burnside Daisy is proof that having an abusive childhood isn't an excuse for doing evil as an adult, and Ward deciding to participate in genocide, commit murder, and threaten to rape Daisy in the season one finale isn't excused just because he had a bad childhood. Actual abuse victims have continually asked folks like you to stop pulling that shit just because you stan a Nazi.
who would like to see ward be put through that body creating process and come back as an actual decent human being
TheMysteriousGamers me too
I'd prefer to see men of character get roles on this show that don't end in them dying (Trip, Andrew, Gonzales) or with them having brief periods of screentime (Joey and Robbie).
Here.
They could do that but wouldn’t that mean he would also have to die again because technically he’d also be a creation of the Dark Hold just like Aida’s human body. I don’t think Ghost Rider would allow for even the good version of Ward to live because his new body would be created by energy from a different dimension.
It’s to bad cause, the other world got destroyed, and they all got erased. But hopefully ward ended up happy either way. So In the end there wasn’t much left of him, it would of been better if the other world stayed and ward would live a happy life there
The real Ward said one day Skye would understand him...it was that day.
Aww
I think this scene shows that Skye/Daisy and Ward did have a genuine connection and that their feelings for each other were real, but Ward's betrayal made their relationship impossible. His offenses were too great, and even though Ward really did love Daisy, there was no way he could come back from all of the horrible things he did. In this scene Daisy finally understands that the person Ward became was all because of his circumstance.
This scene summed up the brilliance of this season. They managed to bring the team together even after it was long gone.
Man, i hope this Ward makes it into the real world.
I want to see Ward in Shield team ,first season was The Best
''Someday.. Someday you will understand'' -- Grant Ward (1x20)
This shit is what I love about the show.
😔
@@prismanic24 same 🔥
The saddest part is that she understands too late to change anything. By this point Ward is long dead and she has to live with the fact that had she been able to forgive him things would've been a lot different
@@gerstein03 honestly, I think Ward could've been redeemed in S2
Wow, I feel bad for Framework Ward. Having to know that he was bad in the real world 😥
I feel bad for Ward's victims having to put up with him.
Put up with whom? Real world Ward is dead, no one has to put with him.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva Ward's victims, including Daisy (who he threatened to rape in season one), had to put up with an iteration of him in the Framework. I'm not sure why that would confuse you.
he was not bad. Framework Ward is just the same Ward, only the actions different.
Maximo Lopez Ward didn’t wanna rape her. I mean remember at the end of the first Thor episode after the berserker staffs effects wore off on him. Skye offered to sleep with him to make him feel better but instead he slept with May because she also held the staff and her cavalry side came out so she was the only one who understood Wards pain. Ward then revealed to Loreilie that he didn’t really love May but he loved someone else (Daisy) Rana then tells Whitehall in season 2 that Ward loves Skye and he thinks if he helps her become a monster like her parents then she’d finally understand why Ward does terrible things and then she’d love him for it. Ward never wanted to rape her he just wanted to wake up the monster inside Daisy so that they could be monsters together.
I’d like to point out that Ward’s first thought for what happened to the “real him” was that he was locked up, even though he learned about a lot of the stuff his “real self” did. Shows that even though he is a hardened agent, he is not a wanton murderer. His first instinct is to contain, not kill. Hand would be proud of the boy she trained. He became a better man than her.
Even real Ward was good at containing threats (instead of killing) in SHIELD’s name until they got close to discovering Garrett. He also “allegedly” didn’t want to kill FitzSimmons (but would’ve if they hadn’t locked themselves in the cubicle)
"I didn't totally understand him, until I met you"
This is the moment Daisy realised the real Ward truly loved her. Radcliffe said the true nature of character does not change in Framework, further proven by May's defection because she is highly sensitive about children (the defection, to me, mirrors May's character change from warm to cold in real world)
Yeah, the moment she met a fake version of Ward is the moment she realized the guy who became a Nazi, helped enslave a black man, participated in a genocide, and threatened to rape her truly 'loved her.' Yup...
@@maximo_lopez he never did any of that but ok
@@pollogaming919 Ward was a member of Hydra. He helped force Mike into servitude to Hydra. He participated in Hydra's act of genocide when they revealed themselves. He threatened to rape Daisy in the season one finale. That you want to pretend that a grown man isn't accountable for his actions because you stan the character doesn't change the truth of the narrative.
@@maximo_lopez when did he threaten to r@pe daisy? He was talking about her having feelings for him
I believe that was also a moment she finally told it out loud that their relationship was worth fighting for it
Possibly my favourite moment in all of Season 4. The audience knew the real Ward had good in him despite everything because we saw all of his scenes. But for Daisy to realise it as well is a major payoff to his character.
Also I wonder if now Daisy is actually having major regrets, because maybe if they had treated Ward differently after his betrayal when he tried to make amends, they might have gotten their friend back after all. The way she said "all along" just made me think of that.
Great redemption for his character, great deepness and complexity.
I was so glad Ward had a kind of redemption, even if it was just in the framework! When he was revealed as Hydra, I was so much like Fitz, hoping and pleading he would be on the good side again. I really loved Ward's character and so sad to see him go. But I'm glad the team (and the audience) got to see THIS side of him, and have a kind of redemptive experience.
Unfortunately only Coulson & Daisy got to know this side of him. Simmons still ignored him due to her hatred of the real world Ward, May still had her Framework personality for the most part & didn't get to know this Ward, and Fitz was The Doctor, and he never got to know Framework Ward.
@@loganbigmo sad, but true
Same!
Wow the feels. In a way Daisy meeting fw Ward is verification of what the real Ward told Daisy. He blamed Garrett & his family entirely for what he became and now this holds true. In the fw it was Victoria Hand who had came to recruit him to Shield and you see how this version of him turned out. It just goes to show it takes 1 person to negatively or positively impact somebody for life.
That comes across like you're saying Ward wasn't responsible for his own actions when he was. He was a bad guy. What Ward said to Daisy turned out not to be true.
Funny, that's not at all what they said. And how did it "turn out not to be true", when it's a matter of opinion?
A person can be responsible for their actions, but other people also can be responsible for making them into what they are.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva That's exactly how it came across, and the OP never clarified the statement. Also, Ward was old enough to know better when he willingly aligned himself with Garrett, so he was responsible for his actions. He was old enough to know better than to side with Garrett. Daisy also had an abusive childhood, but she never became Ward - she never used her history as an excuse to hurt people.
Maximo Lopez It's almost like all those characters are different people who grew up in different circumstances and had drastically different developments. Amazing! And could it be that the whole point of the Framework arc was to point out how no one is inherently good or bad, and that circumstances and experiences shape who we are. Like the way Framework Ward was also abused, but had Hand as mentor instead of Garrett and turned out differently. Or how Framework Fitz was brought up by hid father rather than his mother and had Ophelia instead of Simmons and turned out differently. Looks like the point about human nature went way over your head.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva Since no one ever said that Ward was inherently bad (Coulson even said he thought there was some good in Ward in season two), focusing on an overexposed character who was a Nazi in the MCU - at the expense of Trip, who was marginalized in season two - seems shortsighted. Looks like the point I made eluded you because you were only focused on Ward.
this is all I ever wanted from these two, and I got it in a roundabout way. still will always wish that the writers had actually redeemed Ward.
I think this was the best way for the Ward character to get redemption. After 2 seasons, it was good to see him as a hero.
I love how Ward has essentially 3 “deaths.” His first time was the real person: Grant Ward. Killed by his worst actions coming back to bite him, or crush him in that instance. Hive is sort of what the team saw Ward as, a narcissistic, nigh-unstoppable psychopath. But it isn’t until we see this Ward, a representation of the good we saw he was capable of for most of the 1st season, that we truly see him die. This is the Ward Skye fell in love with, and in this he gets an opportunity to fight Hydra, and win. This show, while not perfect, is a better comic book story brought to live action than the entirety of the MCU. I don’t care what others say. It truly understood what comics were, thanks to being made by someone who had written several. I view this whole show as Jed Whedon’s absolutely killer run on the Agents of SHIELD comic series. Let’s hope whoever gets to use these characters next handles them as well as they deserve. You hear that, Secret Invasion? You bring in a character from this show and they aren’t as good as we know them, you won’t make it past episode 3.
I would love to see an epilogue story. Maybe like Pulp Fiction, 3 sort stories contained within a movie. The Framework being righted, with Ward and Skye(who have gotten married) leading a new SHIELD. Deke struggling with leading SHIELD in the 80s. And some 3rd option I can’t decide on. Maybe YoYo taking on her first big villain, a returned Blizzard. Possibly a tease for Secret Invasion, with Daisy, Kora and Sousa being brought into whatever is going on with the Skrulls by Fury.
@@hipposhark Thanks, sorry I never responded before now.
aww I'm so sad, I wish ward had gotten a redemption arc and become good like this version
When this Ward is willing to stick by his Skye even though she is Hydra, but when it was reversed in the real world Skye couldn't do it for Ward. Miss them so much. He truly did love her and I hope Skye realized that
One more thing I've noticed in this is when Grant says that the real Grant definitely was a jerk, Daisy opens up her mouth as if she's about to argue, but than shuts it, letting him finish the thought. And, one the old ones, but still worth it, is Daisy sounds both relieved and hurt (like "I'm about to cry" level of hurt, which is supported by the rapid blinking she does afterwards, which we do when we want to hold the tears in) when saying she thinks there was some good in Ward all along, because it hurts to say it, when he's gone and it's too late to do something about it, but it's also relieving to finally say it, instead of playing the theatrical part of "prove me you hate him" with all the shooting and the "I will never forgive him".
On the side note, I do think it's after Framework Simmons actually stops constantly shit talk about Grant around Skye (and at all?), which is nice.
Also, I'm still tired of ppl that hate Ward (it's opinion, I'm fine, but don't lie) making the SkyeWard ship into the beauty and the beast trope, when it's obviously Romeo and Juliette (opposite sides, father figures weighing over them, no happy end, nobody has ever talked about Skye "saving" (or not saving) Ward, just about the team giving him the chance before it got to the point of him thinking nothing's gonna get him that chance).
no matter how overused wards character has become, this is a gret actor! even tough he played the same person in every season, he allways had to give that character annother twist
This scene hit me sooo hard. It's like I'm seeing closure to something I never thought I would get the chance to. I know everyone wants to renew this show, but unless they have a better way to cap off this series I think this year should be it unfortunately. They'll never get another chance like this reward fans in a final arc
Reward fans... I see what you did there.
Guess they did❤️
@@akbarkhan6772 I’m honestly surprised S7 was as good as it was. I know a lot of people would disagree but I think the moment they got out of the framework the show had a steady decline in quality all the way through to S6, even if it was a slow decline, but those closing minutes were wonderful 😢 I just wish Marvel Studios played ball with them after S4 ended. The trajectory they could have gone within the larger MCU would have been something else
The fans of Trip were not rewarded. He wasn't given much just so the show could give attention to a character who got 3 seasons of screentime. A guy who threatened to rape Skye/Daisy.
@@Ang_Mystery_Lady what's with you and so called rape threat ? I saw people in multiple comment sections mentioning same, love it or lose it..
if u don't like a character ignore it and focus on what u like, why are u spoiling other people's love on Ward's character?
This season was amazing and it's getting better with every new episode. it definitely deserves a 5th season with this Ward, I always ship them the most since the beginning #SkyeWardForever
"After you're gone... do I get my Skye back?"
ONION NINJA ATTACK!
It's gonna hurt so bad if he doesn't return to the real world. I think Daisy realized here that as much as she cared about Lincoln (ugh), it was Ward that she loved.
futuremovieactor i think she realized that even if he was on "the other side " he loved her
so she realized that he was loyal with garrett but was always sincere with her and really cared about her
she s the one who didn t give him a chance to really redeem himself because she thought he was playing her
futuremovieactor actually daisy doesn't love ward. She did until he betrayed her but she loved lincoln much more... in this conversation she just realized that ward was actually a good person and he needed someone to help him bring out the good of himself. She kind of felt sorry that she just hated ward after he betrayed them ... and didn't help him.
I'm sorry, but no to loving Lincoln. No. I don't doubt she cared about him and felt immense guilt when he died, but he was a replacement for Ward. He felt too much like one anyway.
futuremovieactor he never did to me
Lincoln was not a replacement. He was light and bright and funny, and was a great boyfriend where Ward was always a broken man looking for someone to hold on to, for his own mental stability. Both relationships had a completely different meaning and it's wrong to say she didn't love Lincoln.
And I didn't even like Lincoln that much.
I'm so glad they gave his character some form of closure. Ward was evil but this framework version gave us all what we needed, a Ward pure of Heart.
I don’t know mannn the fact that ward and Skye were together in the framework, makes me feel like they’re supposed to be together and I hope they find a way to bring him back
ward deserved a second chance in the real world, He would move heaven, sea and land to save Daisy / Skye; I always knew it since he died in Maveth
+ Edgar Robledo Ward repeatedly hurt Daisy over and over again, to the point of threatening to rape her in the season one finale. Like Chloe Bennet said, let's not romanticize Ward.
Maximo Lopez yet after that scene she still kept saying she shipped SkyeWard .
Daisy is a terrible name for her she’s Skye and she will ever named Skye
@@maximo_lopez wait when did he threaten that??
@@loganbigmo In the season one finale. There are screenshots of the scene here: hamsterfactor.tumblr.com/post/86608672175/1x20-nothing-personal-1x22-beginning-of-the-end
God please keep ward pleeaaassseee
If this is the last we see of Ward (Bret Dalton has stated he won't be returning to the series) then this was the perfect send off for the Ward character. We see the good man he could've and would've been if not for Garrett. We see him be the hero he could've been. And in a way, we got to finally see SkyWard and what they could've been.
A fitting end to maybe the best character in AOS.
Jesse I think he’s returning as the hivemind in this week’s episode
lol, in the framework, Garret was replaced with Victoria Hand. What a change!
in wards life
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼💯 I couldn't have said it better myself!
Grant Ward is the best character in the MCU
I love ward, but the best character is easily Luis from ant - man
Slow your roll bitch
nah he aint wilson fisk(vincent donofrio)
He is indeed brother...
MY SKYEWARD FEELINGS 😭😭😭
This story arc almost feels like an apology from the agents of shield writers for all the victim blaming they did with the original Ward
i feel like daisy's regret was Ward all together, everything that happened between them and also for not finding/bringing out his good side.
i personally believe that she could've convinced him to side with shield if she had just gotten past the 'shock' of him being hydra if she had just tried and i really hope that at least ward or Lincoln come back before the ending of the show cause daisy deserves to be happy.
THIS IS THE GRANT WARD WE DESERVE
1:29 Ward doesn't care if Skye is Hydra, he's willing to forgive, that's something "Daisy" would never do, all she cares about, is if they work for the same fucking people....
I never noticed that until I read your comment! Nice catch!
@@TB-wn9xk Go fuck yourself ass kisser
@@dxxgx6713...... Did I hurt you or something?
@@TB-wn9xk Just the sarcasm doesn't suits you
@@dxxgx6713 Umm...... If you are referring to my first response to you I was actually being 100% serious. I never really analyzed this scene that closely nor did I recognize that moment for what it was like you did. My comment was not meant to be taken as sarcasm.
Hug was MUST on the end 😭😍 but it's still amazing done scene 😭😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
This made me cry and become emotional tbh
This was their chance to revitalize the show, by bringing ward back. Really missed out on an opportunity there.
You know i was really expecting these guys to kiss
Frank Garcia I was hoping for it honestly.
Me too
Frank Garcia lol me too
I was hoping for a hug😔
Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. is set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU), acknowledging the continuity of the franchise's films and other television series.
Agents of Shield is over and now my heart is skyeward and sousy
At least Framework had shown Ward's good side, that he can still be a good guy, from season 2 i wanted to see him on the good side. Too bad that he can't be good in actual reality.
If Ward doesn’t make an appearance in season 7 then I’m done.....
They have to end with the whole original bus team and we need a proper goodbye of Ward to the whole team (especially a scene between Coulson and Ward/ Fitz and Ward /Daisy and Ward)
@@knjsd9480 Yes you read my mind. They're time travelling so it was be perfect to visit the bus again and join the original team on a mission. This may be pushing it, but I would like Daisy to tell her past self to give Ward another chance maybe even confront him about hydra before he drops FitzSimmons out of the plane. Not sure if they'll try and change time in the season. Brett Dalton said he wouldn't appear in season 7 and same for the actress of Bobbi but I hope they're lying to make it a suprise.
@@jamessm5012 Well, I’ve got bad news for you buddy....
@@philcoulson845 yeh..
@@jamessm5012 Ward never showed up 😔 WHY DIDNT HE SHOW UP?! *WHY DID WARD NOT SHOW UP?!*
The Framework Grant Ward should've been uploaded into an LMD so that he could exist outside the Framework. if you can have LMD Coulson in S7 then why not LMD Framework Grant Ward? Brett Dalton is one of the OG Cast members yet this is the last time we see him. He doesn't reappear in seasons 5, 6, or 7. Not even the finale. What a shame. He should've been in the 100th episode, and in the series finale if anything. Either that, or S.H.I.E.L.D. should've saved an alternate timeline Grant Ward in S7 instead of Daniel Sousa.
I feel like they should have included a scene in which the framework Skye came back to Ward after Daisy and the others left the framework. That way it would have given us the perfect skyeward moment they we have been waiting for since season one without changing Daisy's character development.
heart breaking moment
Is anyone starting to think Skye has finally forgiven Ward after spending time with Framework Ward?
I dont think shes forgiven him (he did do some bad things) but she understands why he did what he did and what made him go down that path,
Considering that look she gives when they walk away? No.
What look?
You're really reaching. So you're saying she was lying and pretending when she was talking to him? Why the fuck would she do that?
You're a good example that extreme character hate makes you stupid.
+ FrakkinToaster Luvva I'm saying the fact that she looked completely disinterested as he walked away spoke volumes for the character. Just because you like the character doesn't mean she does. Also, FYI, calling me stupid doesn't strengthen your argument.
I'm saying that extreme character hate tends to make people act stupid - like losing all the ability to understand the story being told - and make stupid arguments. And just because you hate a character 100%, doesn't mean that character in-universe have to have as one-dimensional thoughts/feelings about them. Just because you don't like the message of a scene or arc, doesn't mean you have to completely ignore it and try to prove it doesn't exist. That's a stupid way to watch a show or enjoy any piece of fiction.
As an example, you're really, really reaching with your "she looks disinterested, so obviously she didn't mean any of it". How does that even make sense? What, she was lying to Framework Ward and just pretending when she said all those things? Why the hell would she do that?
And furthermore, what on Earth do you imagine the writers were going for, if that's what you believe? You think they were trying to show that Daisy is a pathological liar who pretends and says things she doesn't believe in, for absolutely no reason? What?
I think the relationship between Skye/Daisy and Ward just reminds me about the Darkling and Alina in Ruin and Rising just that the Darkling and Ward both had something good in them but some things have changed them when they could’ve been good 😭
Man when Ward asked her, 'Will I get my Skye back?'
I felt that.. i wished they woulda took framework Ward and built him a real body in the real world like Aida did. I thought Ward was cheesy beginning of season 1 but damn i missed Ward so much after getting to know and understand him
This is why I love Ward as a good guy!
They shouldve at least showed framework skye getting back with ward before they got deleted
WHY DIDNT THEY BRING GOOD GUY WARD BACK
I wish Ward wasn't an enemy because I was curious about the continuation of the love between these two.
Closure. I always wanted to see that.
"Do I get my Sky back?"❤️❤️ Skyward❤️❤️❤️❤️
This storyline is by far one of the best from aos. It's too good to cancel... ABC this most definitely deserves a fifth season!!
I wished Trip had been given some significant screentime during this storyline. After three seasons of Ward, I have no idea why the show decided to put him in a storyline that made no sense - like "Skye" being with Hyra and somehow meeting Ward.
Maybe if you used your brain and tried to pay attention, you'd see that the storyline made perfect sense and was very meaningful.
Trip got quite a lot of screentime - and they did exactly all that they could with his character: have him meet Daisy, Simmons and Coulson and provide emotional closure for his teammates. There was even Daisy telling him to be the next Patriot. There wasn't much else to do with Trip, since he was 100% the same as in the real world, and let's be honest, he never was a particularly complex character to begin with.
Framework Ward, on the other hand, was the most meaningful character comeback in the Framework by far - not only was there a lot of emotional closure for the main characters, but his own storyline was crucial, together with Framework Fitz, for the main point of the arc: the fact that circumstances and experiences shape who we are, and that just one moment, one person, one event can change the course of a life and shape a person into the good or bad version of themselves.
(As to how she met Ward in the Framework? Probably the same way she did in the real life - researching SHIELD/Hydra for the information on her parents. That's probably one of the Framework plots that needs least explaining and speculation.)
this scene was masterfully written and showed despite all the horrible cruel shit ward did at the end of the day if circumstances were different he could of very much avoided turning into the monster that caused his own demise I love how it leaves you with what could of been which is honestly the best thing the best outcome for this character I actually respect the writers for not bringing him back he found his closure.
It's so sad that Skye had a messed up childhood and she can't even get the one thing she wanted a family including Ward
Uh, she didn't want Ward.
@@Ang_Mystery_Lady you sure about that
@@jacobangulo6573 Based on what she says - yes.
Here about a week after the finale. Everything with him in Season 4, Hand killing Garrett in the alternate timeline and Coulson defending Ward to Cora was all very cathartic. Also, while I like Souza, I was really wishing this Ward would have come to the regular timeline even if he didn’t end up with Daisy.
Especially since Daisy, after seeing how Ward would've turned out if he hadn't met Garrett or HYDRA, should've saved Ward from that path in the alternate timeline, and brought him to their timeline.
Sad that things didn’t work out between Ward and Skye.
Wish we could have seen Ward make his final stand since it seems like he didn’t make it out of the satellite station
One of my favorite scenes and I am an AOS fan from day 1
Best show on TV right now!!!
Opposites attract:
Real Ward and real Daisy were perfect opposites.
Framework Ward and framework Daisy were perfect opposites.
Even when he sided with hydra Ward always had redeemable qualities season 4 just showed that. He was a victim of John Garrett who he thought was the only person who ever believed in him so despite the fact that he was obviously conflicted I understand why he ultimately chose the life he did. The framework saga just portrayed him as the man that he really was inside
I think the good in Agent Ward that Daisy was referring to was the love he had for her; despite all the crooked grimy s*** that he did he truly did love her. Maybe if he continued to be on the show maybe they would have made a storyline where Daisy would have either understood him or forgave him
Daisy: I guess there was some good in him after all.
Well duh, you realised something that was obvious 3 seasons ago but whatever. Too bad there wasn't understanding when he was in your custody.
So true!!!
I loved this because it showed another side of Ward and gave Daisy closure and the chance to let go of her anger for him without ever trying to erase or forgive the horrific things he did. Real world Ward never deserved a redemption arc but Daisy needed the chance to understand things.
Ward Enters:kalm😌
Ward grabs a gun: Panick🙂
Ward say he protec: kalm😌
legit me the first time I watched it
I don’t care what anyone says , I still wish we got to see this version of Ward return in the finale season , it would’ve been nice seeing this side of him with the team one more time.
I like to think the series ends with Daisy creating a LMD with this Ward's consciousness and starts a new team of Secret Warriors with Deathlok.
This show is brilliant!
The best.
It's possible Grant Ward's clone was created before he perished with Lincoln Campbell as Hive and the clone is somewhere in the real world universe.
This makes me think... if Ward did happen to get his “Skye” back, would she now have inhuman quake powers? I mean it doesn’t really matter since in about like an hour they are erased for existence anyways, it’s still fun to think about.
I find it interesting how Ward's "Skye" was actually loyal to Hydra. I wonder how it'd go down with her if he told her he was actually a Shield Agent
“You always had that Captain America youth look to you!”
WARD HAS TO COME BACK!!! He's the only reason i started watching again
they need a kiss, like "say goodbye"
This scene looks more like a clarification and a farewell.Thanks to the framework, she closes the chapter with lincoln and ward, she can now move foward and she will problably become the next director of shield in the last 2 episodes
Barbara Chevallier It is way too early for her to become Director, she is not ready yet. Otherwise, great comment.
Too great to cancel
A Wild Ymarc Appeared! ABC canceled this show? Damn smh
Not yet. It just hasn't been renewed for a season 5 yet.
WHAT?! THEY DIDNT CANCEL AND AOS IS AWESOME
I said it once but imma say it again.....SKYEWARD DESERVED BETTER
Awww ward☹️ he really is a good person......his biggest regret was hydra
Great scene. I miss this show.
Grant Ward...the way he should have been.
Making ward hydra in season 1 was to obvious it should have been Fitz or Simmons no one would have seen that coming but having ward it seems clear that he is not truthful
They needed to make him a body with project looking glass. Then he could have gone through the backdoor with them and an actual skyward would be possible.🎉🎉🎉
Marvel should have brought him to real world using some kind of theory or tech but it would have been great seeing ward again with the team would have been great
Revive Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. like bring these characters back in new Marvel films and television series projects in the future.
I'm hoping to keep AIDA and Ivanov from getting human bodies, Ward and Hope end up transferring out of the framework and into the real world. So many feels in this scene! OMG!
Don't forgget Tripplet
Oh yeah, him too. Be great if he returns too.
I said Hope because then she's back for Mack's sake.
How will they come to the "real world" if they are dead?
Nella J aint you watching the series? Through fucking Project Looking Glass...
just realised a parellel, ward says 'oh, the other thing' talking about his death
sarge says that to may when talking about her love for coulson
That's not really a parallel. "The other thing" is what people referred to as death.