Thanks, I am a big fan of Octopus and their smart tariffs. This Tesla powerwall will obviously suit some users, but not for me. It is too big for me in the UK, in Summer my battery fills before noon and then exports, which is not too bad, in Winter I am lucky to get 2-3Kwh from solar and the battery will never fill, but yes, charge it up overnight on cheap rate and use what you have during the day, but very hard to justify a big battery just to see you through 4 months of low generation on the basis of cheap overnight rate. Some users with heat pumps etc and high daily usage, then yes, but be careful buying a battery that is too big for your use case.
I’d want bigger inverter than 5kw.I do like my electric shower.and if I wish to go down the route of replacing gas for all electric I’d definitely want a lot more.
In your summary, you didn't call out the discharge rate difference. With the bigger appliances drawing 3kW each and used at the same time, I'm thinking oven and induction hob, this could keep more if not all of the load off grid using the PW3.
Thanks for pointing that out. This is an added benefit of the larger inverter. However, in most cases even base load + hob + oven will be less than 5kW. Ovens are typically 2-3kW and induction hubs need about 1kW per zone. So only if you power the oven and multiple zones, one will exceed the 5kW. This might not be the day-to-day usage for everyone but maybe indeed for some avid cooks around here :)
I am a little confused. I have a powerwall II for years and was on an Octopus Tariff in conjunction with Tesla a couple of years ago. This abruptly terminated when Tesla decided to start their on UK based Energy supply company?
Hi there, as far as we know the Tesla Energy Plan has been discontinued (www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/tesla-energy-plan) and with a Powerwall 2 you should be eligible for the Octopus Flux tariff. On the Flux tariff you can get off-peak rates of 14.1p / kWh to charge your battery overnight. Only if you wanted to tap into the Intelligent Flux tariff, you would need a Powerwall 3 or GivEnergy battery as these are fully controlled by Octopus Energy. Does that answer your question?
Save yourself a ton of of money and get a GivEnergy AIO it’s far cheaper and has the integration already there, just cos it has a Tesla badge doesn’t mean it’s the bet, do t believe the hype.
@@acelectricalsecurity I have just ordered a 2nd PW2 £6350 installed, my first one has worked perfectly for 4 years im really pleased with it , Why dont you like the Giveenergy battery ?
@@rodden1953 to be fair to Tesla they are really good. This may go on a bit, I am an electrician, my customer wanted a battery for their PV system, I usually use sunsync, but couldn't get one, so my supplier offered me a givenergy battery, I didn't know much about it, but took it and that's when the problems started. I fitted it, seen I was missing instructions, so called them, he asked for my installer number, which I didn't have, then said I was not allowed to energise the system otherwise they would not honour the warranty, until I had done their course. So I had £3k of wall art. I return after doing their course and try to finish off, then they want to know where I got the system from, and tell me the supplier needs to set up an account for me. The supplier calls them gets another story from them. So another aborted visit, I go back again to finish I still can't finish, they want a copy of the certificate they sent me, crazy. Then I get an email from them saying I can't register with them because I don't have a website, that was the final straw. I had to pay a third party to get it online using their account, which was a good thing because the battery would not charge, the charge the battery shipped with was too low, but he had a charger only because it happened to him before, oh and their customer service is rubbish.
Great effort, but, for God’s sake, get rid of the background music! It only serves to make it more difficult to understand you. The hard of hearing, of whom I am one, find it difficult to distinguish between two or more sound sources. You don’t need the background noise.
On the Intelligent Flux tariff, Octopus controls your battery throughout the day. In off-peak hours they automatically charge your battery so that between 4 and 7 pm when electricity is most expensive they discharge it to your home and the grid. On the Flux tariff, you have full control and can configure the battery so that it is optimised for self-consumption. In that sense, you use the power from your battery storage on both tariffs, but in Octopus Intelligent Flux you don't have control over it. Ultimately, it's about your personal preference if you want to have that control.
You can't trust octopus, they announced that they were going to offer feed in tariffs to people who had solar pv but were not mcs certified. Well that game changer promptly died a death, i am guessing due to pressure from the red tape bureau or the MCS, who were concerned their gravy train could end.
So you're blaming Octopus Energy because people weren't willing to pay for an accredited installation. Bitter much? Reading your other posts it suggests to me that you're a "solar installer" that has not bothered to get the certification. You've probably miss-sold customers on the promise that they can go the Octopus Energy route without MCS, and now that has turned around and bit you in the ass.
@@michaelwinkley2302 it just goes to show how wrong you are, I have never miss sold anything and if I do a solar job I make them fully aware that I am not MCs registered. I have been trading since 1996 and have been niceic registered since then so it's not being bitter at all, but if a company makes a big song and dance about signing people up that didn't have MCs certified installs, then changed their policy I think it stinks. The whole MCs is nothing more than red tape, jobs for the boys and it's always the same when government money is on offer. I have been to lots of solar, ashp, ground source biomass etc, where all the jobs were done by MCs companies who had done crap installs, then disappeared when the issues start and the money has run out.
@@acelectricalsecuritySo basically what you are saying is that I was right to figure out that you must be a solar panel installer that installs panels that their customers can never get paid for exporting. Regardless of what anyone thinks of MCS, if it's a requirement to have it in order to be able to get paid for exporting, installing panels whilst not holding certification is withholding information from your customers. The only time this wouldn't be true is if alongside every solar install you also installed ab
@@michaelwinkley2302 you are right I am an electrician, solar forms a small part of my job, and you don't need to be columbo to work out I install solar. But as I said on the odd occasion I install solar my customers are made aware of me installing their system and if their goal is to claim a feed back tariff I tell them to go elsewhere. As for the MCs this is how much of a farce it is, companies are getting registered they have no one who could install a system, so they turn to contractors like me, yet you are happy to use these companies and probably think that when people like me turn up they actually work for that company. And I can tell you a lot of those companies disappear, and only that I hold back the certificate until I get paid I would have been taken a few times.
I just priced up a system and they told me it was a 13 year ROI which matches my own conclusion as on Octopus Intelligent I’m averaging about 18 pence per KwH for my electric. I use about 20 kWh a day without the car. Until ROI is down to about 5 years it makes no financial sense. I can put the £12k or so in investments and get around 10% in a decent fund. I’m hoping Labour see the benefit to this and allow you to write it off against your income tax. Your calculations are nothing like reality on the import tariffs. As I say I am currently averaging 18 pence and only usually charge the car once a week. So substantially increase that. Plus your calculations take no account of the time cost of money and investment returns. There’s no business case for buying these currently unfortunately.
Thanks for your comment - let's go through your points one by one: Your average rate / kWh: It does look like your average rate at 18 pence / kWh is significantly higher than the off-peak rate on Intelligent Go (~7.5 p / kWh) or the Eco7 rate we use in the video. I assume this could be because most of your electricity is consumed during the day on the peak rate of ~28.5 p / kWh? This is exactly what we're trying to tackle by installing a battery. With the home battery storage that charges up overnight on ~7.5 p / kWh, you can power your home on the same rate during the day. Effectively this brings down your average rate close to ~7.5 p. Business case for buying the batteries: In your message it sounds like there is generally no business for a home battery. I disagree with that statement. Generally we see a very positive business case for most homeowners that we speak to: 1) Price-wise, we can offer batteries for 50% less than only a few years ago as the material prices have dropped significantly and the UK government has dropped the 20% VAT. 2) In terms of savings, we see that most homeowners who have a smart/dual rate meter can get substantial savings on their electricity costs using a battery. These meters allow us to access tariffs with cheap off-peak rates (e.g. Octopus Go, Eco7, etc.). In some cases, the business case might not look as good because either the quoted price for the battery is too high (and price drops haven't been passed on to consumers) or the electricity cost savings of the battery are too low (e.g. because the right tariffs can't be accessed). Time cost of money: Yep, you're right we don't account for that in this version of the business case as we don't want to overcomplicate it. We would be very happy to create a business case with you that discounts the cash flows. Feel free to get in touch at johannes@getretrofitted.co.uk. I would also be happy to provide you a lower quote for a battery (£12k is a very high price)!
Yep, Mark and Kristian you're right. VAT has been reduced to 0% on both Solar + Battery installations as well as Battery-only installations. We've recently written an article on this too: www.getretrofitted.co.uk/knowledge/government-grants-and-tax-reductions-for-battery-storage
Informative and interesting, but please please please drop the background music. Please.
Thanks for the feedback, Francis!
I second that motion !
@@tonyblighe5696 I third that motion! I was frantically closing down all my other tabs thinking I had left one open playing music!
Thanks, I am a big fan of Octopus and their smart tariffs. This Tesla powerwall will obviously suit some users, but not for me.
It is too big for me in the UK, in Summer my battery fills before noon and then exports, which is not too bad, in Winter I am lucky to get 2-3Kwh from solar and the battery will never fill, but yes, charge it up overnight on cheap rate and use what you have during the day, but very hard to justify a big battery just to see you through 4 months of low generation on the basis of cheap overnight rate.
Some users with heat pumps etc and high daily usage, then yes, but be careful buying a battery that is too big for your use case.
Heat your water as I do so you need zero gas in summer months
I’d want bigger inverter than 5kw.I do like my electric shower.and if I wish to go down the route of replacing gas for all electric I’d definitely want a lot more.
In your summary, you didn't call out the discharge rate difference. With the bigger appliances drawing 3kW each and used at the same time, I'm thinking oven and induction hob, this could keep more if not all of the load off grid using the PW3.
Thanks for pointing that out. This is an added benefit of the larger inverter. However, in most cases even base load + hob + oven will be less than 5kW. Ovens are typically 2-3kW and induction hubs need about 1kW per zone. So only if you power the oven and multiple zones, one will exceed the 5kW. This might not be the day-to-day usage for everyone but maybe indeed for some avid cooks around here :)
I am a little confused. I have a powerwall II for years and was on an Octopus Tariff in conjunction with Tesla a couple of years ago. This abruptly terminated when Tesla decided to start their on UK based Energy supply company?
Hi there, as far as we know the Tesla Energy Plan has been discontinued (www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/tesla-energy-plan) and with a Powerwall 2 you should be eligible for the Octopus Flux tariff. On the Flux tariff you can get off-peak rates of 14.1p / kWh to charge your battery overnight. Only if you wanted to tap into the Intelligent Flux tariff, you would need a Powerwall 3 or GivEnergy battery as these are fully controlled by Octopus Energy. Does that answer your question?
@@getretrofitted Thank you. This is understood.
Save yourself a ton of of money and get a GivEnergy AIO it’s far cheaper and has the integration already there, just cos it has a Tesla badge doesn’t mean it’s the bet, do t believe the hype.
I wouldn't touch givenergy with a barge pole. And that's as a customer and installer.
Lol @@acelectricalsecurity
@@acelectricalsecurity I have just ordered a 2nd PW2 £6350 installed, my first one has worked perfectly for 4 years im really pleased with it , Why dont you like the Giveenergy battery ?
@@rodden1953 to be fair to Tesla they are really good.
This may go on a bit, I am an electrician, my customer wanted a battery for their PV system, I usually use sunsync, but couldn't get one, so my supplier offered me a givenergy battery, I didn't know much about it, but took it and that's when the problems started.
I fitted it, seen I was missing instructions, so called them, he asked for my installer number, which I didn't have, then said I was not allowed to energise the system otherwise they would not honour the warranty, until I had done their course. So I had £3k of wall art.
I return after doing their course and try to finish off, then they want to know where I got the system from, and tell me the supplier needs to set up an account for me. The supplier calls them gets another story from them. So another aborted visit, I go back again to finish I still can't finish, they want a copy of the certificate they sent me, crazy.
Then I get an email from them saying I can't register with them because I don't have a website, that was the final straw. I had to pay a third party to get it online using their account, which was a good thing because the battery would not charge, the charge the battery shipped with was too low, but he had a charger only because it happened to him before, oh and their customer service is rubbish.
GivEnergy AIO is more expensive than Powerwall 3 and it’s crap.
Great effort, but, for God’s sake, get rid of the background music! It only serves to make it more difficult to understand you. The hard of hearing, of whom I am one, find it difficult to distinguish between two or more sound sources. You don’t need the background noise.
Mute the sound and use subtitles.
Thanks for the feedback! We'll have less background music and better microphones for the next video.
Does that Octopus Tariff mean that between 4pm & 7pm I can’t use my own battery storage power? E.g. forced to pay the premium price?
On the Intelligent Flux tariff, Octopus controls your battery throughout the day. In off-peak hours they automatically charge your battery so that between 4 and 7 pm when electricity is most expensive they discharge it to your home and the grid. On the Flux tariff, you have full control and can configure the battery so that it is optimised for self-consumption. In that sense, you use the power from your battery storage on both tariffs, but in Octopus Intelligent Flux you don't have control over it. Ultimately, it's about your personal preference if you want to have that control.
You can't trust octopus, they announced that they were going to offer feed in tariffs to people who had solar pv but were not mcs certified.
Well that game changer promptly died a death, i am guessing due to pressure from the red tape bureau or the MCS, who were concerned their gravy train could end.
So you're blaming Octopus Energy because people weren't willing to pay for an accredited installation.
Bitter much?
Reading your other posts it suggests to me that you're a "solar installer" that has not bothered to get the certification. You've probably miss-sold customers on the promise that they can go the Octopus Energy route without MCS, and now that has turned around and bit you in the ass.
@@michaelwinkley2302 it just goes to show how wrong you are, I have never miss sold anything and if I do a solar job I make them fully aware that I am not MCs registered. I have been trading since 1996 and have been niceic registered since then so it's not being bitter at all, but if a company makes a big song and dance about signing people up that didn't have MCs certified installs, then changed their policy I think it stinks.
The whole MCs is nothing more than red tape, jobs for the boys and it's always the same when government money is on offer.
I have been to lots of solar, ashp, ground source biomass etc, where all the jobs were done by MCs companies who had done crap installs, then disappeared when the issues start and the money has run out.
@@acelectricalsecuritySo basically what you are saying is that I was right to figure out that you must be a solar panel installer that installs panels that their customers can never get paid for exporting.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of MCS, if it's a requirement to have it in order to be able to get paid for exporting, installing panels whilst not holding certification is withholding information from your customers.
The only time this wouldn't be true is if alongside every solar install you also installed ab
@@michaelwinkley2302 you are right I am an electrician, solar forms a small part of my job, and you don't need to be columbo to work out I install solar.
But as I said on the odd occasion I install solar my customers are made aware of me installing their system and if their goal is to claim a feed back tariff I tell them to go elsewhere.
As for the MCs this is how much of a farce it is, companies are getting registered they have no one who could install a system, so they turn to contractors like me, yet you are happy to use these companies and probably think that when people like me turn up they actually work for that company.
And I can tell you a lot of those companies disappear, and only that I hold back the certificate until I get paid I would have been taken a few times.
@@michaelwinkley2302 Are you an MCS installer or otherwise in the industry? Your observations seem spot on.
Link shows error message page No healthy upstream
Hi there, we have just tried the link again and it works fine. Could you try again please? www.getretrofitted.co.uk/battery-consultant
@@getretrofitted Thank you the link is now working.
I just priced up a system and they told me it was a 13 year ROI which matches my own conclusion as on Octopus Intelligent I’m averaging about 18 pence per KwH for my electric. I use about 20 kWh a day without the car.
Until ROI is down to about 5 years it makes no financial sense. I can put the £12k or so in investments and get around 10% in a decent fund. I’m hoping Labour see the benefit to this and allow you to write it off against your income tax.
Your calculations are nothing like reality on the import tariffs. As I say I am currently averaging 18 pence and only usually charge the car once a week. So substantially increase that. Plus your calculations take no account of the time cost of money and investment returns. There’s no business case for buying these currently unfortunately.
Thanks for your comment - let's go through your points one by one:
Your average rate / kWh: It does look like your average rate at 18 pence / kWh is significantly higher than the off-peak rate on Intelligent Go (~7.5 p / kWh) or the Eco7 rate we use in the video. I assume this could be because most of your electricity is consumed during the day on the peak rate of ~28.5 p / kWh? This is exactly what we're trying to tackle by installing a battery. With the home battery storage that charges up overnight on ~7.5 p / kWh, you can power your home on the same rate during the day. Effectively this brings down your average rate close to ~7.5 p.
Business case for buying the batteries: In your message it sounds like there is generally no business for a home battery. I disagree with that statement. Generally we see a very positive business case for most homeowners that we speak to: 1) Price-wise, we can offer batteries for 50% less than only a few years ago as the material prices have dropped significantly and the UK government has dropped the 20% VAT. 2) In terms of savings, we see that most homeowners who have a smart/dual rate meter can get substantial savings on their electricity costs using a battery. These meters allow us to access tariffs with cheap off-peak rates (e.g. Octopus Go, Eco7, etc.). In some cases, the business case might not look as good because either the quoted price for the battery is too high (and price drops haven't been passed on to consumers) or the electricity cost savings of the battery are too low (e.g. because the right tariffs can't be accessed).
Time cost of money: Yep, you're right we don't account for that in this version of the business case as we don't want to overcomplicate it. We would be very happy to create a business case with you that discounts the cash flows. Feel free to get in touch at johannes@getretrofitted.co.uk. I would also be happy to provide you a lower quote for a battery (£12k is a very high price)!
@@getretrofitted hi that was for battery with solar.
VAT is only zero if installed with solar
Not any more
That was the case, but in February 2024, that changed
Yep, Mark and Kristian you're right. VAT has been reduced to 0% on both Solar + Battery installations as well as Battery-only installations. We've recently written an article on this too: www.getretrofitted.co.uk/knowledge/government-grants-and-tax-reductions-for-battery-storage
@@getretrofittedDoes that include the VAT on the installation as well as the hardware?
@@normanlazarus1836 Yes, this includes VAT on installation and hardware. You effectively get 20% off your installation and hardware at the moment!