people will happily pay you for your remote tuning services across the world.......It might give you more business thn actual physical installation.....Love from Indiaaa.....
It would be nice to see how you measure? Where to hold the mic? From the scratch. and wht would also be very interesting is how you set the phase and delay?
Thanks James it will be either a zapco z8 iv-ii or a helix dsp pro mk2 still have some doubts 🤔 I now use the dm810 Its fine but I think it can be better
I love how Peter gets mad at people. lol, but he is absolutely right. read and do the research people. thank you for the videos Peter. keep on the amazing work buddy. peter one more question buddy at what level do you listen to pink noise when you are tuning. I keep watching your videos repeatedly and learn something new every time.
Haha, yeah, sometimes people have to be told to wake up! 😃 I have many tricks, but unfortunately i won’t share anything more tuning related than the videos in the TUNING playlist. Only other source you can pick up more info from is the RTA tier on our Patreon channel. www.patreon.com/pssound
Great as always - or "cracking" as they say across the pond. :-) Those dash pods look awesome - I'm guessing they are custom made for the dash? Thanks!
Peter thank you so much for this video. I’ve been doing boat loads of reading and watching videos. I keep coming back to this video for reference. It took me a while but I just got the LF mid done. It’s a very big learning curve. One of the biggest parts is getting a system down.
sorry to be so off topic but does someone know a method to get back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost the password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me.
@Yehuda Gabriel thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out atm. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Hey Peter really Nice what you are capeble off with car audio. I changend my stetting an d the sound is great not even fine tuned. But what about setting your gains with this kind off sq install . I like to play sq and esql i use the xfire dsp All component are Gladen and mosconi
I’m fitting a JL Audio amp with DSP in my car tomorrow. I was going to have a go to tune myself. You said £300 for tuning, was that the market rate for a professional to do the tune? I want to have a go myself, which is the reason I watched the video and my backup plan was to get it professionally tuned if it doesn’t sound right to me. Thanks, I appreciate the detailed video
This is great information! Thank you for sharing. You definitely have a niche carved out for you. I hope to have my stereo tuned so well when I'm finished. After having gone back and watched the SQ series, I now have a much better understanding of how to get from A to B. Who is the person you mentioned that does tuning in the U.S?
@Lucas Long Nick Apicella at Apicella Auto Sound in Stoney Point, NY. He has some pre-requirements you & your system need to meet BEFORE contacting him that are outlined in the Link below to his Remote Tuning thread on the DIYMA forum. He's a great tuner and custom installer. Does really good work. He's somewhat of a youngish NY punk kid and comes off a bit cockey at times (like Peter can sometimes, LOL), but he's a good guy and knows his stuff. You'll get a great tune if your install and equipment are in order. www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/remote-tuning-you-asked-im-delivering.428133/#post-5817920
bb foto yes, it can come across a bit cocky at times, but i just try to nail the facts into people’s head! At least i don’t come with the high street marketing bullshit! 😂
Great work Peter. Information is for sharing. Having spent countless hours with REW i find the biggest challange in measuring tehnique. Static MIC measuring is extremely sensitive to placement. A couple of centimeters creates huge differencies. Measuring right/left ear position also does this. Moving Microphone Measurement over 5-10 seconds and collecting accumulative data with proper smoothing creates more consistent measurements. So, back to my question: Which measuring method do you use?? Maybe gated measurement would be best to try cancelling some reflections?
@@leoeskelinen1867 Yes, Erin really knows what he is doing and is willing to share his knowledge. The reflections are part of the total amplitude response you ultimately hear at your listening position. The Moving Mic Method is much faster and gives you very similar results to taking multiple-location, fixed-point mic measurements and then averaging them in REW. There is also other software that is extremely powerful and can reveal more refined and useful data (if you know how to interpret and apply it). But those are not free like REW and require greater understanding of impulse response, phase, modal characteristics, etc. Also look up Steve Kiser in North Carolina, and Mark Eldridge (Mobile Soundstage Engineering) in Oklahoma in the U.S. Also the guys at Audio X Custom Car Audio, Florence, Alabama... www.audioxcustom.com/
bb foto Thanks for your reply. I’ve been using the MMM as my primary method. Separately one channel ear by ear first, then both channels. Starting with the midrange. What really disturbs me is the big variations in measurements. What is the purpose of using state of the art DSP when the aqoustics mess up the possibility of correct and repeatable mesuring results.
When making measurements to set delays between the speaker and the listening point, should the measurements be taken from the grille to the listening point? or would it be more correct to remove the grilles and take measurements from the listening point to the base of the speaker cone without the grille?
Watching this for the second time, great video. With new drivers, is there any requirement to run them in before doing a EQ? Do they change acoustically (and measurably) as they bed in and settle down?
Oh... I was going to ask if you can do the remote tunning, I just brought the HDSP-Z16 DSP, and landed on this video to learn about the software as its seems complicated as i moved from helix.
"There is nothing wrong with Focal tweeters, they just need some tuning" agree Piter but 9 of 10 peoples are "plug and play" means they buy 2 way passive system, mount and play and thats where disappointing starting , simply Focal tweeters on stock crossover sounds horrible , not just my opinion. Anyway another superb video :)
Just needs tuned down alot there tweeters very effecient even morel can be bright depending where you out them dsp fixes everything tho or going passive at minimum
Excellent video peter! The knowledge you share is greatly appreciated. I hope you do start the remote tuning, after all you share on your channel I'd be happy to pay for a service like that. Question, is there features you prefer about the zappco dsp then say over the helix? Thanks again for your videos.
Colby Dolby this Zapco is dead easy to use even for newbies, whereas Helix DSP’s have so many features and pages, that most people can get lost. Both of them sound great and have head to head accuracy when it comes to tuning. I use both of them very often, to be fair i don’t want to use anything else! Latest Mosconi DSPs have all the goodies too, so i would be alright with that too, but that’s it! Helix is still leading in features and compatibility with REW, but i’m okay with any of the 2 until i can get the desired sound out of them. The Zapco HDSP V is special for me though: pain in the ass to tune with it (new software is coming), but the sound!! ❤️❤️
@@pssound9749 Yeah, Zapco REALLY needs to get the software (AND their Support/customer service) sorted out for the HDSP V units. They are so close. I've really wanted to use these new processors in my systems, but they are just not there yet. :( Hopefully soon!
bb foto it is there now, but it makes a massive difference who you buy it from, like my customers getting it from me with all the support. Devices are preset for their system and tested for weeks before they actually ship out, but i wasn’t selling them till i wasn’t confident with them.
@@pssound9749 Yes, that's very important. Unfortunately, Zapco laid that burden too heavily on their dealers IMO. No one can argue about the high quality of sound that they produce. I just take issue with companies that release their uber-expensive products too early and when they are "half-baked", which forces their dealers and early adopter customers to become the guinea pigs or "beta testers" while all of the bugs get sorted out. :/ And they ARE NOT FAST at providing updates and getting things sorted. :( They also announced these units MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, and then kept making empty promises all along the way. Ultimately, many of us gave up and lost interest, while during the same timespan Audiotec-Fischer had released and refined/updated MULTIPLE top-notch DSP products with a huge feature set and options. Unfortunately, Zapco lost a huge amount of momentum and market share during that time. And when they FINALLY were released, the actual roll-out and release of the HDSP V units was a complete clusterfook (at least here in the U.S.) and very poorly handled. AND the software was half-baked and definitely not ready for primetime. It's taken more than a year to get them to a point where they are actually semi-stable and usable. Then, of course, there was the change in distributors here in the U.S. which was another setback. While I like the concept of the HD Player & remote, it is crude and severely lacking and restrictive for the current times compared to even the most basic of smartphone music playing apps. I still have heard nothing of the optional ADC/DAC modules that they promised with the initial announcement. Are those available in the EU now? /RANT :-P
Hi, great series and great video. Learnt a lot, especially midbass in doors in conjunction with the Audi build. A question, have you done a centre channel install? With proper upmixer, of cause and your views on centre channels in cars? I have read about AndyW's car (AudioFrog) and read his tech tips, etc.
Shafick Nazier no, i haven’t used centre channel yet, no need in my 1 seat setups as centre image is still rock solid and the passenger wouldn’t have a clue about imaging anyway! 😃 I’d highly recommend using differential rearfill though! 💪👌✌️🔊🔊
Peter, Thank you for this video as it is extremely informative especially in one of my cars where I run a Zapco ADSP. Question: I think I am doing it wrong. I run the Pink Noise generator in REW so that I am consistent in my measurements. You mentioned that when running your PAIRED speakers (I.e Tweeters) you ran with Uncorrelated Pink Noise (Stereo) is that correct? Run with MONO (correlated) Pink Noise when measuring individual speakers but run stereo pink noise when running pairs for your measurements? When checking all speakers together do you also run stereo pink noise? Thank you.
@@pssound9749 wouldn't you want to run mono pink noise when measuring pairs of drivers, such as two tweeters? Mono would essentially be measuring your "center image" and verifying there is no cancellations from miss set time alignment?
The ones that dont know how to do time alignment... , just buy a Mosconi DSP, and a pair of in ear Microphones from thomann and it will do it perfectly automatic.. ;) It will also calculate the fase automatic and set filters automatic if you tell it to do that. Job done. Internal RTA, internal tonegenerator, no errors in the measurements. Its very cost effective for the regular do it your self. REW True RTA single condenser mikrofone Is all a very long process to reach good results with.
The miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 v2.0 Dirac Live unit is incredible in this regard as well. It fixes timing, amplitude response, and phase 110% better and MUCH faster than even some of the best experienced manual tuners can. It has a few quirks to figure out as the DL algorithms and measurement protocol weren't really designed with a nearfield/small-space, highly reflective vehicle cabin in mind, but it's still amazing what you can achieve in a relatively short time.
@@mindosy I don't compete, but I'm a musician of 25+ years (Saxophones & Drums/Percussion). I have 4 vehicles with high-end systems using Helix DSP PRO MK II, Helix DSP ULTRA, Gladen Aerospace 8x12, and miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL. I've been using DSP and tuning my own car audio and home audio/studio systems since the 1990's. I use REW and Systune with Earthworks professional measurement microphones when tuning. My own home studio recordings of my sax & drums, and other typical "audiophile" recordings including EMMA, IASCA, and Stockfisch AYA discs, sound the most REAL and LIFELIKE in my system with the miniDSP 8x12 DIRAC LIVE...by far! The speakers in that system are Purifi PTT6.5 as midbass, Dynaudio Esotar² 430 midrange, and BlieSMa T25B-6 Beryllium tweeters with TWO 15" Infinity BETA 15X subwoofers in I.B. configuration. Other systems use Focal Utopia 8WM, 3.5WM, and TBM tweeters with Raven 12" subwoofer. And another system uses Purifi PTT6.5 midbass, Excelsus XXM325 3" mid, and Gladen Aerospace 20 tweeters with H.A.T. Clarus 15 subwoofer. Last system uses ARC Audio RS1/4/6 3-way components and Boston Acoustics SPG555 subwoofer. So I'm no stranger to high end SQ and I know what REAL acoustic musical instruments sound like in real life to compare my systems. ;-) The miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL sounds fantastic when it is implemented properly. I have tried the Zapco HDSP V Z16 which does sounds great (when it worked), but when I tried it in early days there were WAY too many problems and quirks with its software & firmware, and horrible dealer support, so I returned it.
@@bbfoto7248 nice setups, many of dsp you mean was tuned and your insights about Zapco is true, but one more is that Zapco sounds very "digital", Helix flat in bad side of flat, maybe you are right, but i have no good experience with auto tune audio things, especially that using EQ in sound is the worst thing
Great video! I am usually not a big fan of individual Left/Right EQs in the midrange region because it creates phase distortion if you use "regular" filters (IIR instead of FIR). It may lead to a fuzzy sound image and lack of coherence. Aren't you sensitive to that phenomenon Peter?
@@pssound9749 you did not convince me. 😁 Check the group delay of left midrange and compare with the right one. Also, if you can, check the global phase response of each midrange channel in the tuning software. Each filter that you set creates a phase rotation at the F0 frequency. If you proceed with stereo EQs, everything is fine. But if you start EQing individual speakers of a pair where the human ear is sensitive (typically 20 Hz - 1.5 kHz), you will "defocus" these frequencies. This is why uncorrelated pink noise looks always sexier on our RTAs 😎 When you acoustically sum both midranges playing a correlated pink noise, some of the dips are the result of this phase distortion between left and right.
Loved video and repeat 3x so it sinks in. Parametric eq. Good to know for a novice. I was looking at this. My only question is, what do I do with my center channel with this because I want to use it
Peter. I had a question that I have not been able to find an answer too. The Zapco dsp I notice in the background you have the main volume set at 26. Do you use the dsp as the main volume control and run the source at 3/4 volume (say a head unit or dac player). And if you do use the Zapco dsp as the main volume control do you set your gains with the source unit at 3/4 volume and then the dsp at 3/4 volume.
No, max clean signal from source as well as from DSP to the amps, so you can keep amp gains lower to improve the S/N of the system. Controller of the DSP is usually the master volume, especially when we use digital sources.
@@pssound9749 so I would oscope my signal from the source (headunit) set that keep the source at that level Then plug the source into the DSP then oscope the dsp output then I can plug in my amps and then oscope the amp gains?
Hello Peter, just trying to tune the frequencies in my zapco adsp-z8 iv-8 using a laptop, when i tried to save i get the messege "failed to save" after that the unit entered in protection and the controller goes off. Any advice it will be much appreciated. Thank you.
Congratulations for another super interesting video Peter. May you tell us which micro do you use (and its position) for measuring RTA levels? Static, average from diferent positions? Thanks again!
good afternoon, I would like to know if another measurement microphone can be used with the RTA of DSP PC-tool, like this UMIK-1 USB calibrated measurement microphone for plug & play measurement of your system. It is to calibrate my system with my new dsp.3 helix, but I do not have the MTK1.
Thanks a lot for your video. Can you tell me a good medium and tweeter for on dash install without breaking the bank? I have hertz medium in my door actually and tweeter in custom pod on door but want to go with tree voice. Thanks
Dhanwant Agrawal there are separate videos as “teaser” where i play music, but tbf i find it comical to make any judgements based on a recording that goes through multiple channel before viewers can watch it.
I need your help I live in Korea and recently installed a zapco processor in my car However, the ear pain is too severe because the correct setting was not made. Could you tell me how to set the correct setting?
If only it was that simple! I’m working on a training program where even you or a shop employee will be able to learn the process. It’ll be shared soon.
Hi, old video, but would you recommend Zapco Z iv ii at over helix dsp 3s? I have helix competition a4 for hertz 700.3, helix a2 competition for mid basses, helix spxl 1000 for sub. Might add rear fill in the future (does this effect the decision?)
If you’re planning rearfill in future, then you’ll need more channels, so both of the DSPs are out of you. Helix DSP PRO mk3 is your best future investment. 🔊🔊
Ashton Murch once any car is parked in, it’s always on the charger. Well built systems with good equipment shouldn’t show any issue having the charger on. 👌
@@pssound9749 Good to know! Just discovered your channel a couple weeks back, it has a lot of good information and tips. Appreciate you putting out vids like this. My car is sounding better than ever!!
Hi Peter, love your videos. I've learned alot. I think I heard you say that you use uncorrelated pink noise? Can you explain why? I've been using correlated pink noise for all my tuning. I do each speaker individual, and then in pairs.
Think about it, If you're tuning a system you're listening to music in stereo so you would then tune each individual driver with Uncorrelated Pink Noise (Stereo Pink Noise). If I'm tuning a Right side speaker I only want to tune the signal going to that speaker. If you tune with Correlated pink noise (Mono) you're tuning left and right signal for a driver that's only going to be playing right signal giving you inaccurate results.
Both sound great, have pretty much everything you need. Zapco has BT & controller, Helix doesn’t, everything is additional. Zapco is fully integrated, so you can not connect an additional (sub) amp to it, but channels are bridgeable. Helix is not bridgeable, but can add another amp to it as it has a pair of RCAs for it.
sry dude but no data how time aligment and x-over sloope order influence to phase (setting distance by tape is not quite correct, you can only start with it). You also set different freq for mid LP and bass HP, you know on graphics freq can be flat and smooth in x-over edges but phase and ears goes crazy
Absolutely, but i can not cover everything in one video and i’m not even gonna talk about how to do it when it’s already been done in the first video of this TUNING playlist. everything is listed in description for finding the appropriate links to learn more about it.🔊🔊
people will happily pay you for your remote tuning services across the world.......It might give you more business thn actual physical installation.....Love from Indiaaa.....
"This shit can do crazy stuff!" - Pssound. I gotta tell you man, you're my new favorite channel. Thanks so much for all the useful information.
The best part of this video is "knowledge available for all "❤❤❤❤
Thanks again. All the information is greatly appreciated. Straight forward and useful.
Peter!!! When you take a new video, you make my day better!!
Thanks for the videos!!
Thank you for putting out this content.
It would be nice to see how you measure? Where to hold the mic? From the scratch. and wht would also be very interesting is how you set the phase and delay?
Love these tuning videos!
Yeah absolutely 👍👌
Thanks peter for the knowledge, I am going active and I also currently running zapco !!!! Thanks homie !!
Great information I have the Zapco DSP-Z8 IV II 8-Channel. Waiting to install. Enjoy your work and information you give out 🙏
Hi James question
Question
what do you think of the zapco dsp
Z8 iv ii ?
does it work well software etc
Please let me know
Regards
Stefan
@@81stefan1 I enjoy it alot software only on windows computer Mac laptop no software . But iPhone app and android app works well.
Thanks James
can you do the complete EQ tuning via the app ?
Or only with the laptop
And is this unit quiet
No grundnoise or hiss through the tweeters
@@81stefan1 if you ground everything correctly will be perfectly fine you can do a lot from the app.
Thanks James
it will be either a zapco z8 iv-ii
or a helix dsp pro mk2
still have some doubts 🤔
I now use the dm810
Its fine but I think it can be better
You are a superman! This is cool! Greetings from Russia 😀 I wish I could drink a lot of vodka with you to know all your tuning secrets))))
Александр Карпов haha there’s no Russian deal without finishing a bottle first, i know that! 😃😂
Best tuning yet! Thank you!
Thanks for the Info much appreciated.
Great information boss, preshiate ya!
Keep up the great work!
I love how Peter gets mad at people. lol, but he is absolutely right. read and do the research people. thank you for the videos Peter. keep on the amazing work buddy. peter one more question buddy at what level do you listen to pink noise when you are tuning. I keep watching your videos repeatedly and learn something new every time.
Haha, yeah, sometimes people have to be told to wake up! 😃
I have many tricks, but unfortunately i won’t share anything more tuning related than the videos in the TUNING playlist. Only other source you can pick up more info from is the RTA tier on our Patreon channel. www.patreon.com/pssound
Great as always - or "cracking" as they say across the pond. :-)
Those dash pods look awesome - I'm guessing they are custom made for the dash? Thanks!
Peter thank you so much for this video. I’ve been doing boat loads of reading and watching videos. I keep coming back to this video for reference. It took me a while but I just got the LF mid done. It’s a very big learning curve. One of the biggest parts is getting a system down.
sorry to be so off topic but does someone know a method to get back into an instagram account??
I stupidly lost the password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me.
@Jaime Benedict Instablaster ;)
@Yehuda Gabriel thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out atm.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Yehuda Gabriel it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thanks so much you saved my ass!
@Jaime Benedict no problem =)
Great Video Peter! Thank you!!
Love that video learned a lot 🙏🙏🙏
You’ve given away too much already! Great info , and totally true
It was all covered in the previous video too. 👌
Pssound I’m having a nightmare with a 3.sixty.3 and some front mids/high passive set. Like tuning a mountain.
Well said Peter "Read!!!"
Hey Peter really Nice what you are capeble off with car audio.
I changend my stetting an d the sound is great not even fine tuned.
But what about setting your gains with this kind off sq install .
I like to play sq and esql i use the xfire dsp
All component are Gladen and mosconi
Zapco dsp works best with arrow keys when equing, move left and right and up and down the numbers.
Awesome video !! Thank you
once again....another fantastic video!
I’m fitting a JL Audio amp with DSP in my car tomorrow. I was going to have a go to tune myself.
You said £300 for tuning, was that the market rate for a professional to do the tune?
I want to have a go myself, which is the reason I watched the video and my backup plan was to get it professionally tuned if it doesn’t sound right to me.
Thanks, I appreciate the detailed video
This is great information! Thank you for sharing. You definitely have a niche carved out for you. I hope to have my stereo tuned so well when I'm finished. After having gone back and watched the SQ series, I now have a much better understanding of how to get from A to B. Who is the person you mentioned that does tuning in the U.S?
@Lucas Long
Nick Apicella at Apicella Auto Sound in Stoney Point, NY.
He has some pre-requirements you & your system need to meet BEFORE contacting him that are outlined in the Link below to his Remote Tuning thread on the DIYMA forum.
He's a great tuner and custom installer. Does really good work.
He's somewhat of a youngish NY punk kid and comes off a bit cockey at times (like Peter can sometimes, LOL), but he's a good guy and knows his stuff. You'll get a great tune if your install and equipment are in order.
www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/remote-tuning-you-asked-im-delivering.428133/#post-5817920
bb foto yes, it can come across a bit cocky at times, but i just try to nail the facts into people’s head!
At least i don’t come with the high street marketing bullshit! 😂
Great work Peter. Information is for sharing. Having spent countless hours with REW i find the biggest challange in measuring tehnique. Static MIC measuring is extremely sensitive to placement. A couple of centimeters creates huge differencies. Measuring right/left ear position also does this. Moving Microphone Measurement over 5-10 seconds and collecting accumulative data with proper smoothing creates more consistent measurements. So, back to my question: Which measuring method do you use?? Maybe gated measurement would be best to try cancelling some reflections?
Leo Eskelinen check out Erin’s Audio Corner channel, he has a video about measurement techniques. I can’t share mine unfortunately, sorry.
Pssound Ok Peter. I understand. Will check out Erins Audio Corner. Thanks
@@leoeskelinen1867
Yes, Erin really knows what he is doing and is willing to share his knowledge.
The reflections are part of the total amplitude response you ultimately hear at your listening position.
The Moving Mic Method is much faster and gives you very similar results to taking multiple-location, fixed-point mic measurements and then averaging them in REW.
There is also other software that is extremely powerful and can reveal more refined and useful data (if you know how to interpret and apply it). But those are not free like REW and require greater understanding of impulse response, phase, modal characteristics, etc.
Also look up Steve Kiser in North Carolina, and Mark Eldridge (Mobile Soundstage Engineering) in Oklahoma in the U.S.
Also the guys at Audio X Custom Car Audio, Florence, Alabama...
www.audioxcustom.com/
bb foto Thanks for your reply. I’ve been using the MMM as my primary method. Separately one channel ear by ear first, then both channels. Starting with the midrange. What really disturbs me is the big variations in measurements. What is the purpose of using state of the art DSP when the aqoustics mess up the possibility of correct and repeatable mesuring results.
bb foto Have you used gated measurements? Maybe this is the way to go?
When making measurements to set delays between the speaker and the listening point, should the measurements be taken from the grille to the listening point? or would it be more correct to remove the grilles and take measurements from the listening point to the base of the speaker cone without the grille?
thankyou Peter! 😍
Watching this for the second time, great video. With new drivers, is there any requirement to run them in before doing a EQ? Do they change acoustically (and measurably) as they bed in and settle down?
Oh... I was going to ask if you can do the remote tunning, I just brought the HDSP-Z16 DSP, and landed on this video to learn about the software as its seems complicated as i moved from helix.
"There is nothing wrong with Focal tweeters, they just need some tuning" agree Piter but 9 of 10 peoples are "plug and play" means they buy 2 way passive system, mount and play and thats where disappointing starting , simply Focal tweeters on stock crossover sounds horrible , not just my opinion. Anyway another superb video :)
Just needs tuned down alot there tweeters very effecient even morel can be bright depending where you out them dsp fixes everything tho or going passive at minimum
Excellent video peter! The knowledge you share is greatly appreciated. I hope you do start the remote tuning, after all you share on your channel I'd be happy to pay for a service like that. Question, is there features you prefer about the zappco dsp then say over the helix? Thanks again for your videos.
Colby Dolby this Zapco is dead easy to use even for newbies, whereas Helix DSP’s have so many features and pages, that most people can get lost.
Both of them sound great and have head to head accuracy when it comes to tuning.
I use both of them very often, to be fair i don’t want to use anything else!
Latest Mosconi DSPs have all the goodies too, so i would be alright with that too, but that’s it!
Helix is still leading in features and compatibility with REW, but i’m okay with any of the 2 until i can get the desired sound out of them.
The Zapco HDSP V is special for me though: pain in the ass to tune with it (new software is coming), but the sound!! ❤️❤️
@@pssound9749
Yeah, Zapco REALLY needs to get the software (AND their Support/customer service) sorted out for the HDSP V units. They are so close.
I've really wanted to use these new processors in my systems, but they are just not there yet. :( Hopefully soon!
bb foto it is there now, but it makes a massive difference who you buy it from, like my customers getting it from me with all the support. Devices are preset for their system and tested for weeks before they actually ship out, but i wasn’t selling them till i wasn’t confident with them.
@@pssound9749
Yes, that's very important. Unfortunately, Zapco laid that burden too heavily on their dealers IMO.
No one can argue about the high quality of sound that they produce.
I just take issue with companies that release their uber-expensive products too early and when they are "half-baked", which forces their dealers and early adopter customers to become the guinea pigs or "beta testers" while all of the bugs get sorted out. :/ And they ARE NOT FAST at providing updates and getting things sorted. :(
They also announced these units MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, and then kept making empty promises all along the way. Ultimately, many of us gave up and lost interest, while during the same timespan Audiotec-Fischer had released and refined/updated MULTIPLE top-notch DSP products with a huge feature set and options.
Unfortunately, Zapco lost a huge amount of momentum and market share during that time. And when they FINALLY were released, the actual roll-out and release of the HDSP V units was a complete clusterfook (at least here in the U.S.) and very poorly handled.
AND the software was half-baked and definitely not ready for primetime. It's taken more than a year to get them to a point where they are actually semi-stable and usable.
Then, of course, there was the change in distributors here in the U.S. which was another setback.
While I like the concept of the HD Player & remote, it is crude and severely lacking and restrictive for the current times compared to even the most basic of smartphone music playing apps.
I still have heard nothing of the optional ADC/DAC modules that they promised with the initial announcement. Are those available in the EU now?
/RANT :-P
Hi, great series and great video. Learnt a lot, especially midbass in doors in conjunction with the Audi build.
A question, have you done a centre channel install? With proper upmixer, of cause and your views on centre channels in cars?
I have read about AndyW's car (AudioFrog) and read his tech tips, etc.
Shafick Nazier no, i haven’t used centre channel yet, no need in my 1 seat setups as centre image is still rock solid and the passenger wouldn’t have a clue about imaging anyway! 😃
I’d highly recommend using differential rearfill though! 💪👌✌️🔊🔊
Peter, Thank you for this video as it is extremely informative especially in one of my cars where I run a Zapco ADSP.
Question: I think I am doing it wrong. I run the Pink Noise generator in REW so that I am consistent in my measurements. You mentioned that when running your PAIRED speakers (I.e Tweeters) you ran with Uncorrelated Pink Noise (Stereo) is that correct? Run with MONO (correlated) Pink Noise when measuring individual speakers but run stereo pink noise when running pairs for your measurements? When checking all speakers together do you also run stereo pink noise?
Thank you.
John Salinas II correct. 👌
@@pssound9749 If I am running say just the Left three way to make sure they are phased correct do I use MONO or stereo PN?
@@pssound9749 wouldn't you want to run mono pink noise when measuring pairs of drivers, such as two tweeters? Mono would essentially be measuring your "center image" and verifying there is no cancellations from miss set time alignment?
So correlated for response of single driver
Uncorrelated= in pairs left mid and tweet?
Thank you for this video🙏🏼
Yes. 👌🤘
Soft dome rant is gold lmao. So true though.
Probably comes from the days of not having a dsp - the driver choice would be more critical.
The ones that dont know how to do time alignment... ,
just buy a Mosconi DSP, and a pair of in ear Microphones from thomann and it will do it perfectly automatic.. ;)
It will also calculate the fase automatic and set filters automatic if you tell it to do that.
Job done.
Internal RTA, internal tonegenerator, no errors in the measurements.
Its very cost effective for the regular do it your self.
REW
True RTA
single condenser mikrofone
Is all a very long process to reach good results with.
The miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 v2.0 Dirac Live unit is incredible in this regard as well.
It fixes timing, amplitude response, and phase 110% better and MUCH faster than even some of the best experienced manual tuners can.
It has a few quirks to figure out as the DL algorithms and measurement protocol weren't really designed with a nearfield/small-space, highly reflective vehicle cabin in mind, but it's still amazing what you can achieve in a relatively short time.
@@bbfoto7248 :DDDD
but no one in pro category uses miniDSP C-Dsp because of its terrible sound
@@mindosy
I don't compete, but I'm a musician of 25+ years (Saxophones & Drums/Percussion). I have 4 vehicles with high-end systems using Helix DSP PRO MK II, Helix DSP ULTRA, Gladen Aerospace 8x12, and miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL.
I've been using DSP and tuning my own car audio and home audio/studio systems since the 1990's. I use REW and Systune with Earthworks professional measurement microphones when tuning.
My own home studio recordings of my sax & drums, and other typical "audiophile" recordings including EMMA, IASCA, and Stockfisch AYA discs, sound the most REAL and LIFELIKE in my system with the miniDSP 8x12 DIRAC LIVE...by far!
The speakers in that system are Purifi PTT6.5 as midbass, Dynaudio Esotar² 430 midrange, and BlieSMa T25B-6 Beryllium tweeters with TWO 15" Infinity BETA 15X subwoofers in I.B. configuration.
Other systems use Focal Utopia 8WM, 3.5WM, and TBM tweeters with Raven 12" subwoofer. And another system uses Purifi PTT6.5 midbass, Excelsus XXM325 3" mid, and Gladen Aerospace 20 tweeters with H.A.T. Clarus 15 subwoofer. Last system uses ARC Audio RS1/4/6 3-way components and Boston Acoustics SPG555 subwoofer.
So I'm no stranger to high end SQ and I know what REAL acoustic musical instruments sound like in real life to compare my systems. ;-)
The miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL sounds fantastic when it is implemented properly. I have tried the Zapco HDSP V Z16 which does sounds great (when it worked), but when I tried it in early days there were WAY too many problems and quirks with its software & firmware, and horrible dealer support, so I returned it.
@@bbfoto7248 nice setups, many of dsp you mean was tuned and your insights about Zapco is true, but one more is that Zapco sounds very "digital", Helix flat in bad side of flat, maybe you are right, but i have no good experience with auto tune audio things, especially that using EQ in sound is the worst thing
Great video!
I am usually not a big fan of individual Left/Right EQs in the midrange region because it creates phase distortion if you use "regular" filters (IIR instead of FIR). It may lead to a fuzzy sound image and lack of coherence. Aren't you sensitive to that phenomenon Peter?
Yann LECOEUR you don’t get any of that if the EQ is applied correctly at the right place with the right values.
@@pssound9749 you did not convince me. 😁 Check the group delay of left midrange and compare with the right one. Also, if you can, check the global phase response of each midrange channel in the tuning software. Each filter that you set creates a phase rotation at the F0 frequency. If you proceed with stereo EQs, everything is fine. But if you start EQing individual speakers of a pair where the human ear is sensitive (typically 20 Hz - 1.5 kHz), you will "defocus" these frequencies. This is why uncorrelated pink noise looks always sexier on our RTAs 😎 When you acoustically sum both midranges playing a correlated pink noise, some of the dips are the result of this phase distortion between left and right.
Yann LECOEUR you see you’re good to go, my help is not needed here! 😃
@@pssound9749 enjoy your holidays Peter!
Loved video and repeat 3x so it sinks in. Parametric eq. Good to know for a novice. I was looking at this. My only question is, what do I do with my center channel with this because I want to use it
Phil O. Centre channel is difficult if you don’t have an upmixer algorithm in the DSP for that.
@@pssound9749 I grabbed the Helix 3.8 because they have it or something similar. Thanks, I hope others see your comment.
Peter. I had a question that I have not been able to find an answer too. The Zapco dsp I notice in the background you have the main volume set at 26. Do you use the dsp as the main volume control and run the source at 3/4 volume (say a head unit or dac player). And if you do use the Zapco dsp as the main volume control do you set your gains with the source unit at 3/4 volume and then the dsp at 3/4 volume.
No, max clean signal from source as well as from DSP to the amps, so you can keep amp gains lower to improve the S/N of the system.
Controller of the DSP is usually the master volume, especially when we use digital sources.
@@pssound9749 so I would oscope my signal from the source (headunit) set that keep the source at that level Then plug the source into the DSP then oscope the dsp output then I can plug in my amps and then oscope the amp gains?
Hello Peter, just trying to tune the frequencies in my zapco adsp-z8 iv-8 using a laptop, when i tried to save i get the messege "failed to save" after that the unit entered in protection and the controller goes off. Any advice it will be much appreciated. Thank you.
Do you use a sound card, if yes, what brand and type do you use?
Where do you take you measurements from? Where do you place the mic?
Right side of head for right side and vice versa, or just in your mouth? :D
Hallo wie kann mal bei der zapco den Gain einstellen ? Grüße Sebastian
@pssound, do you plan on doing a tuning video for a Helix DSP?
M*****w T****s please find PART 9. of the SQ in Car playlist, where a HELIX DSP PRO mk2 was used, shared few months ago.
Are those midrange and tweeters vented in the a-pillars or is that just one sealed piece attached to the a-pillars?
seems closed
Congratulations for another super interesting video Peter. May you tell us which micro do you use (and its position) for measuring RTA levels? Static, average from diferent positions? Thanks again!
Jesus Martin hi, please check Leo’s comments + answers below! 👌✌️🙏
good afternoon,
I would like to know if another measurement microphone can be used with the RTA of DSP PC-tool, like this UMIK-1
USB calibrated measurement microphone for plug & play measurement of your system.
It is to calibrate my system with my new dsp.3 helix, but I do not have the MTK1.
So i guess you dont use the measurement sweeps? You are using Pink noise and Measure ? Why dont you use the RTA feature?
Please check the other videos in the Tuning playlist to see a better picture. 👍
Thanks a lot for your video. Can you tell me a good medium and tweeter for on dash install without breaking the bank? I have hertz medium in my door actually and tweeter in custom pod on door but want to go with tree voice. Thanks
Hey I m from Nepal. Well copyright issue is there but u play from youtube ncs or make instagram id n demonstrate sq there... good luck
Dhanwant Agrawal there are separate videos as “teaser” where i play music, but tbf i find it comical to make any judgements based on a recording that goes through multiple channel before viewers can watch it.
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of a house curve do you use on REW?
None. I think it’s explain in few tuning videos in the series, that i tune it linear and then i go on from there with my ears.
I need your help I live in Korea and recently installed a zapco processor in my car However, the ear pain is too severe because the correct setting was not made. Could you tell me how to set the correct setting?
If only it was that simple! I’m working on a training program where even you or a shop employee will be able to learn the process. It’ll be shared soon.
In a SPL car with a 6th order, how do you measure the delay? On the rearport or the front port? Or somewhere in the middle?
Nice video, i was just wondering, you do this kind of tune just for the front speakers? What do you do for the rear speakers?
We usually run rears as differential rearfill, still properly EQ-d and time aligned. 💪🏼
What is the timeline looking like for your U.S. market installation clone to go live?
jasongmt there are plenty of great guys over there already! 🤘🔊🔊
Hi, old video, but would you recommend Zapco Z iv ii at over helix dsp 3s? I have helix competition a4 for hertz 700.3, helix a2 competition for mid basses, helix spxl 1000 for sub. Might add rear fill in the future (does this effect the decision?)
If you’re planning rearfill in future, then you’ll need more channels, so both of the DSPs are out of you. Helix DSP PRO mk3 is your best future investment. 🔊🔊
Hey Peter, while you are tuning the car do you have a battery tender hooked up to the battery? Is it safe to have it connected while tuning?
Ashton Murch once any car is parked in, it’s always on the charger. Well built systems with good equipment shouldn’t show any issue having the charger on. 👌
@@pssound9749 Good to know! Just discovered your channel a couple weeks back, it has a lot of good information and tips. Appreciate you putting out vids like this. My car is sounding better than ever!!
Hi Peter, love your videos. I've learned alot. I think I heard you say that you use uncorrelated pink noise? Can you explain why? I've been using correlated pink noise for all my tuning. I do each speaker individual, and then in pairs.
Think about it, If you're tuning a system you're listening to music in stereo so you would then tune each individual driver with Uncorrelated Pink Noise (Stereo Pink Noise). If I'm tuning a Right side speaker I only want to tune the signal going to that speaker. If you tune with Correlated pink noise (Mono) you're tuning left and right signal for a driver that's only going to be playing right signal giving you inaccurate results.
Hi, what to chose between ZAPCO DSP-Z8IV-II and helix v eight mk2 dsp. Thanks
How can u compare the 2? Zapco is a standalone DSP, while the Helix V8 is an amp+DSP.
@@pssound9749 my fault, it's about zapco adsp-z8 iv-8, 8 channels dap amplifier. Thanks
Both sound great, have pretty much everything you need. Zapco has BT & controller, Helix doesn’t, everything is additional.
Zapco is fully integrated, so you can not connect an additional (sub) amp to it, but channels are bridgeable.
Helix is not bridgeable, but can add another amp to it as it has a pair of RCAs for it.
sry dude but no data how time aligment and x-over sloope order influence to phase (setting distance by tape is not quite correct, you can only start with it). You also set different freq for mid LP and bass HP, you know on graphics freq can be flat and smooth in x-over edges but phase and ears goes crazy
Absolutely, but i can not cover everything in one video and i’m not even gonna talk about how to do it when it’s already been done in the first video of this TUNING playlist. everything is listed in description for finding the appropriate links to learn more about it.🔊🔊
@@pssound9749 its an first video of Tuning playlist, mate :)
Evgeniy Dmitriev haha put it in a chronological order then! 😜😀
Hi Peter, I need remote tuning for my system will you able to do it.
I don’t do remotely tuning, it doesn’t work.
@@pssound9749 okay Peter. Thanks for the reply.
remote tuning with Dirac?
I guess Dirac Live would be the optimum solution!
summation is indeed a word pete xx
Harwood Acoustics someone is watching my videos properly! 😉😘😃😂
installation mid driver volume is low as peak at 250 hz created after
You’ll have that peak there even if it’s in the dash with open air space behind it. It’s corner loading effect of location.
3rd 🇯🇲 he he he 🔊💯
Jah Son 🤣🤣🤣
@@pssound9749 awesome video, please check your DM on IG from qtn_auto
Does anyone know. Can this zapco z8 dsp remove one channel from stereo subs and assign it to center channer? Great video!
No, unfortunately it can not.
Second!
You're a luny too! XD
@@pssound9749 That notification bell works.🔔
@@timmothy19 notification bell squad represent 🔔🤙😂
LAST! :-P
First! 😂
You're a luny! XD
@@pssound9749 as always
Because you use the wrongest tools and softwares dear guy
I’m sure you know better…