I just fixed one of these a couple weeks ago under warranty. Champion sucks for their diagnostics as pin outs ect. Their thing is tell us what part you want and we will send it. Ended up replacing the throttle body which has the computer in it. Fault code for coil circuit open/short. Great vids as always. Also the customer uses it for their food trailer, this exact same unit you shown here powers their entire food trailer, and it had 558hrs on it. Got me an awesome free steak n chicken burrito out of the deal😊
I own two Champion Gen sets and have had no issues. Also, I have repaired a few in my shop, usually for stale fuel issues. Wish they had an online seminar on the fuel injected models. Thanks
@@WJCTechyman champion's training is goto their website and watch their UA-cam videos per fault code repairs. The fault code I had was f010 ignition coil circuit short/open. I pulled the coil and bench tested it and it worked fine, champion sent one out, replaced it, still same issue, they have a basic wiring diagram in the owners manual, but since I've been a master automotive technician for yrs I had to make my own pin out and found no circuit ground through the carbon monoxide detector, i had them send me that and a throttle body because i was down to those 2 items. Carbon monoxide detector didn't resolve it, throttle body fixed it. My opinion its just stupid not to offer a proper service manual and or flow chart diagnostics. They are relying on that fault codes to tell them what needs replaced and im sorry i don't care how advanced your diagnostic stuff is, there is always something that sets false codes.
Well I admit I have a shop and lots of yard machines here. Every now and then I buy Kero to wash up dirty engine parts. And I managed to get it in my tractor... Had me scratchin my friggin head for an entire month it ran wonky as hell. And then that big fat lightbulb came on in my head...
When plastic oil bottles became a thing I began punching 1/16" to 1/8" holes in their caps and using them to squeeze-bottle-feed gas engines with fuel problems. Long ago I noticed that EFI engines that had water/other unburnable crap in their fuel system could >sometimes< be made to pass the bad stuff on through if they could just be bottle-fed for long enough time. I caught my grandson having fun squirting charcoal lighter on some charcoal that was already burning well. Gave me the idea to show him how to keep an engine running with a squirt bottle. So now that is my Go-To procedure for any EFI engine that isn't getting fuel. I usually choose ten minutes as my time limit. If they don't get going by then I assume the problem is not bad fuel. PS - a couple times I found defects in the EFI computer to the effect that if I ran it long enough to get the (Heated or Unheated) Oxygen Sensor generating a signal it would continue to run "closed loop". Once I found a pickup truck that had the wrong fuel pump installed (not enough pressure) this way. The (default initial) Open Loop injector pulses + low pressure weren't enough fuel for it to run on - but when it warmed up and went Closed Loop the computer could lengthen out the pulses and it would run fine up to about 3/4 throttle.
Another great video Taryl! Starting a small engine business this year, love your content. Been a mechanic for over 30 years and I always learn something new on your videos. I live in N.W. Alabama, but I was born and spent a lot of my childhood not far from you in Winchester, In. Keep up the great work!
Indeed, as much as I believe fuel injection is superior in pretty much all areas, for the moment I can fix a carb, but I probably cannot fix an injector (and they put a security torx, which I have the bits for, but it probably means that repair shops won't get parts for that anyways).
I remember back a few years ago looking for some information on a 14 hp v twin vanguard with a tapered shaft, ran across one of your videos, thought you were a pot smokin leftover hippie from the UK. Must have timed it when you were talking with a British accent and your dental hygiene looked spot on. I remember being in a hurry and didn’t stick around past the skit, for I was looking for some answers to my problem. Now I have subscribed and am always looking for new videos no matter how corny the acting, the truth is I know you know sumshit and watching a left handed person work on stuff is like listening to a guest speaker with a speech impediment you tend to pay closer attention. I worked on electrical stuff for John Q. Public throughout the years and they can be a fickle lot and after several years of building up a reputation they stop trying to fool you because they know you’ll figure out they screwed up. Well anyhoo thanks for being unique and entertaining.
I bought a couple Taryl shirts last year I am impressed with how nice the quality of the shirts and the printing is. Worth the money. The stickers are a lot of fun too lol!
I had a ford fission and it wouldn’t start, crank no start issue. They had issues with pcm ignition coil drivers staying on and melting down the coils, so I found couple of burnt coils and replaced them and the pcm. After waiting forever for a pcm. It til wouldn’t start. Took a fuel sample, did abs ethanol test, passed. I poured a little on the ground to see how it burns, it lit then went out. It has that odd smell to. I suspect diesel, it mixes with gas very well and takes on the same color, where as kerosene is due pink, seems it be more obvious. The crap we run in to, just crazy sometimes! I enjoy watching your videos though, always learn something and entertaining!
Great vid brother! I just so happened to wake up Saturday morning to no power. Drug the old Troy-Bilt 8500W/15hp Briggs out from under the bench and it fired on the first pull on 18 month old non ethanol+Sta-Bil. I know you don't care for Sta-Bil (I did watch that series), but it's worked for me.
Seems like an EFI setup is going to make it a bigger PITA to properly drain all the gas out of the tank and lines for storage. That’s one thing I like about a conventional carb setup, you can drain everything out through the float bowl before it gets put away.
This generator will be easier than most to drain. The tank has a drain plug in place of the legacy petcock. Then manufacturer can't just put a petcock and drain hose in its place, since that people would turn mistakenly turn it and create a fuel spill. But the end user could. Many carbs *don't* have an easy drain. That's pretty much a Honda and clone feature. Some old carbs had a spring loaded valve intended to drain a few drops of water, more important in the days before E10, but you wouldn't want to drain the system that way. A feature of this system is that the fuel system can be partially sealed. The fuel pump can work against a partial vacuum, and the injector can withstand high pressure. The tank vent only needs to open under high vacuum and pressure. The tank for a float bowl carburetor can't allow any significant pressure. Even if a new needle can hold 5 psi, it's not safe to count on a worn needle sealing against a heat-pressurized tank.
@@Discretesignalsthat wouldn’t work because the injector requires the pressure of the pump in order to spray. However, what Tyrel did in the video would be the procedure. The disconnecting the line to the fuel injector would remove most of the fuel from the system.
@@Discretesignals Only problem with that is if the fuel pump is disabled, the electronics may not let the engine run. So many interlocks, safties, etc.
There's nothing different about draining an EFI system either... Empty the tank, start it up, and let it run til it quits... Why in the HELL would you just shut the fuel off on a carbed engine, and then drain the bowl? So that you end up with stale gas that you STILL have to drain out of the tank later?? 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻 Just do it the PROPER way the first time, and be DONE with it...🤨
I have a real nice quiet Champion 3500 for my camper that I really like. Best thing about it is it has a remote starter so when you get up in the morning you don't have to put on your skivvies before starting the coffee. Just hit the remote. They have the same generator in dual fuel, gas/propane however it doesn't have the remote starter. Plus it only weighs a little over 100lb so I can load it in my truck easy enough.
Im a gen tech and i have one of those 3500s, I got it for like 125$ and no doubt it's super quiet. I know it's not going to last forever, but it's ok. When my power is out ,I'm on the road anyway fixing other people's stuff. I've left it running for around 10-12hrs straight while I'm out and it's good enough. Probably not a bad idea to get an extra voltage regulator and/or some brushes for it though.
Before i finish watching this i'll tell a lil story. I had a gen that would run about a minute and die, after cleaning everything and had good gas flow it still did the same thing. I finally drilled out the gas inlet hole at the needle valve, it worked!!! For some reason there wasn't enough gas to keep the bowl full.
@@WJCTechyman Ya know what, you're right about the governor linkage. I think, have to check, the governor is there, the linkage is missing. But I stand by my first post in this video. There is no value to putting EFI on small engines.
@@WJCTechyman Carbs aren't headaches. Maintained correctly, they will run years without a problem, and when they do fail, it's an easy fix. IDK what headaches you're talking about.
@@johnfromnj885 , REGULATORS will be constructively mandating EFI for the same reason it became commonplace for cars: Emissions compliance. Contrary to all the advertising over the years, "performance" or "fuel economy" didn't drive adoption; emissions did. Crazy people in California's legislature just outlawed ALL internal combustion engines(!), so Champion and the overseas engine manufacturer are actually ahead of the curve on this move. Sane places will likely continue to allow ICE's, but the compromise will likely involve additional emission controls. It will drive the price of everything up, of course.
Believe the throttle body housing has the ecu built into the bottom im thinking also since its fuel injected it should have a mass air flow sensor or manifold sensor to measure the air flow for fuel mapping? Can someone explain if I'm worng on this thanks.
Interesting test, and information how to clear a fuel problem when working on a small EFI engine. Thanks Taryl! Based on my personal experiences, EFI works well and seems to be very reliable on small engines. I had a 26 hp EFI Kohler with a ton of hours that never gave me any issues. The 37 hp EFI Vanguard I have now on the newer mower has been equally as perfect, for a the 4 years I’ve owned it. It’s my understanding those two engines use a slightly different EFI system but both ran perfectly even when cold. That stated a carbitrator is still simpler to fix.
Not really, a fuel injector is pretty simple to unplug and replace, and less fiddly than trying to find a rebuild kit for a chinese carb. As far as reliability goes, cars have been fuel injected since about 1986. My Dad has one of the last Toyotas with a carb, a 1985 Toyota Tercel. Engine has been rebuilt 3x, but still has the original carbitrator on it.
Taryl, I got one of those Champion suitcase 2500 watt Champion's based on your prev advice on one of the Honda generator videos I think. It's one of those dual fuel inverter units, and I got a 20lb BBQ tank for it. So far after 5-6 hours of using it, the tank is still about 3/4 full, I weighed the tank when it was new before and after. They advertise 34 hours of running time on one tank with a small load, but I think they only put 15lbs of LP gas in it, based on the stamped tank tare weight, so about 24 hrs is more like it based on what I've used so far. Anyway it seems like a good unit, nice little carb, and puts out perfect 120v and 60 Hz. Snagged it off the ol Scamazon on sale was like $400. Much cheaper than the Honda which is only like 2200 watts. I don't run gas in it, don't want the headache of stale fuel, propane never goes stale, tank will rust out before that happens. The carb does have a nice 1/8" clear vinyl drain hose from the carb bowl tho, and a simple Philips screw to loosen to drain the gas for storage. It even came with a cute little funnel to make it easy to add oil.
In my best Maxwell Smart voice: "AH, the old Diesel Fuel in the gas tank trick, huh?" I've got 2 Champion generators, a 3200 watt inverter and a 3500 watt conventional open frame, and they've been great. I installed an external tank extended run system on the inverter genny, it's run 3 days nonstop several times now and it doesn't miss a beat. I've needed to use their customer service a couple of times too for a few different items (bought a wheel kit for the 3500 open frame, and it had the fuel tank vent "tipover valve" broken when I opened the box so they sent me a replacement, and I requested a high altitude jet kit and an extra remote start fob for the inverter) and every time I have been 100% satisfied with Champion. I've seen a number of people online really bashing on Champion's customer service, but I'd bet good money that 99% of those folks bring it on themselves, truth be told.
I was always losing nuts by bumping my worktable/bench until I saw you use a magnetic bowl on a video. I invested in a few of them to put around the shop and haven't lost a nut or screw for a LONG time. Not the purpose of this video but was reminded of a lesson/resource gained as you were removing the electronic carbonator. Thanks!
Green Industry Pro said you will go viral one day and I don't doubt that for a minute. My favorite video and what lured me in years ago was the small engine repair school one with the gorilla, and various other oddities. You only had about 1K subscribers and maybe 3K views, but I loved it and will be a fan until you no longer need to do this. In reference to this video, never leave any fuel more than 3 months in a Champion carb, always burn it out and drain fuel, But, otherwise they are good quality for Chinese sourced equipment and replacement carbs OEM are very reasonable.
Very good video my friend you are the man I agree it's not a good idea to keep it running with starter fuel God Bless You And the Crew and there's your dinner💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I'm thinking maybe a spray bottle with gas in it would be the first resort with a fuel delivery issue. That way if you get it running, you can keep spraying gas into the venturi for as long as you need.
I have a dual fuel one that runs gas or propane. Only used it a couple times but it's nice! Pretty sure the kill switch is also a fuel valve so the carb doesn't stay full. (Could be wrong, haven't tested that)
Taryl, I love your videos! Little note, here. That Ball brand mason jar is no longer made. Hang onto it. It may become worth something. Reminded me of watching Mom canning fruit, long ago.
Well two things come to mind watching the video. first injectors usually run with 43.5 psi from the fuel pump & it also looked like the volume was low. So in the future I guess you will need to start testing fuel pump pressure when trouble shooting fuel issues with injector systems. I guess you could use a hydrometer to test if you have pure gas or a Mixture by specific Gravity of the mixture, or in your case the smell test because as you said they do smell different. Nice Catch TFA.
the cover-up of the actual offense gives us mechanics a hard time at figuring stuff out...like pouring new oil in an engine after it blows up...or putting gas in a tank after you ran diesel through it etc
Pretty interesting, I work on overcomplicated fuel injected vehicles every day and now see that small engines are following the same path. At least its throttle body injected and not direct injected yet.
I haven’t read through your comments to see if somebody else has stated it yet but, if you go on a site that sells Champion and read reviews for this exact model, you’ll find that there is a problem with the sine wave output that gets the total harmonic distortion above 5%, closer to 10-15%, which in a lot of cases for some people cause havoc with the items they are trying to run off this generator and therefore the generator is not suited for that operation. It doesn’t openly state that in their specifications, unless you get deep into the manual, according to one reviewer. I’ll bet you don’t have that problem with the Honda setup.
Didn't get a notification. I heard people talking about this, never believed it, until only recently have I noticed it This instance and another channel. You look like Richard Simmons dancing.. LOL I think I understand. Thanks Taryl.
Sometimes you have to put a bit of the fuel on the cement floor then throw a match in it to see if it flash fires. Occasionally someone would put some diesel in a gas tank or vis versa by mistake, sure did make engines run poor
Does it (the EFI) really make a difference in economy or comfort? I have an about fifteen years old 4kVA Kipor inverter generator with a standard carburettor. A friend of mine has the recent model of the same generator with EFI. I absolutely, totally and definitely cannot make out any difference in starting behaviour, fuel economy or things like noise. The only difference is that the about two year old EFI generator was already fixed two times on warranty while my carbureted one ran for fifteen years with barely any issues (after about a thousand hours a rocker arm broke (a $15 fix...) and a few times I had to flush the fuel tank because of stale gas).
I remember when Polaris introduced their first fully electronic EFI snowmobile. I was hip deep in snowmobile repair at the time. I had already commented on the fact the electronics would probably fail due to the nature of the environment they were expecting the electronics to operate in. My predictions came true as I suspected. The electronics couldn't handle the climate and were not properly potted, nor insulated enough for the conditions they were expected to run in. Now they of course, have it perfected. In the beginning, the electronics would fail in short order. The EFI system was a nightmare. My opinion was that they rushed this into production without proper long-term testing. At the time, I was attending the Snowmobile manufacturers open house in Grayling MI, and they would ask us mechanics our experiences on what worked and what didn't. I met many decent people in the industry and was amazed at how much the industry valued our input. Unlike the other small engine manufacturers that just pump out scrap and we get to pick up the pieces.
That was just RETARDED on Polaris' end. Automobiles have had EFI electronics in them for DECADES that has been nothing but reliable. There's NO reason that Polaris couldn't have made their electronics reliable
@davelowets They rushed it into production was the biggest issue. Had they consulted those working in the industry, they would have known what was bound to happen. I remember a couple mechanics saying the potting material was actually cracking from the cold. Vibration was also a huge issue on that first year. I saw a huge disconnect with Polaris and their consumers that year. They learned from it.
I had the same problem with my neighbors' snowblower and 2 backpack blowers. Fortunately, they told me they had put diesel in them, which was an easy fix.
My family has been a big Honda fan for a long time, but when it came to a generator my dad has always had a Champion since I was little. Still going strong today
I would love a Honda generator like that. I am not willing to spend the $5500 plus sales tax on one though. I'll run the $1k China ones 6x for the cost of that Honda.
Be fair. The $5500 Honda you mention would be an inverter generator, this Champion is not. But on a much more important issue….you admit you would have to run 6 of these generators to one Honda. That would be the same money spent in the end while going through the hassle of replacing your generator 6 times and generating 6x the waste…help me understand this logic.
@@vg3430 no guarantee on how long either will last. The Honda could be obsolete in 1-10 years if a part breaks and they don’t make that part anymore. The champion could run a year, a decade or who knows how long. My current $800 generator has been running fine/reliably for the past 6 years. Only used for power outages. I did have to put a carb on it due to running ethanol fuel and letting it sit 6 months.
something I was remiss in mentioning. Cars go into "closed loop" this means all the sensors kick in. Air temp, water temp, MAP or MAF, O2. Without those sensors, there is no closed loop and there is no manipulation of the fuel delivery for that "clean burn" they say you'll get. It's basically a fuel table for open loop that is static. Which basically renders EFI no better than a carb. Without sensors, especially an O2 sensor, fuel is not actively adjusted.
YES it STILL is... there IS a map programmed into the system for all of the variable weather elements that the engine could see. There's STILL a temp sensor, map sensor, intake air temp sensor, TPS sensor, and so on
I ran into that problem working at a car dealership where a salesmen put diesel into the tank and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run had to drain the tank and clean out the lines and refill with gas
I'd prefer an "old fashioned" style generator over the newer inverter types. Yeah they may be quieter but once the inverter goes bad all you got is maybe an engine for a DIY go cart.
Tarel another good video! Always learn something! And have a good laugh with that horsehair and back woods teeth you have. I had a similar problem with a snowblower last year, it ran out of gas so I grabbed the 5-gallon gas can and poured in the gas it would not start. I been an auto mechanic for 55+ years. I was killing my arm and plugged the electric wire for the 110 starter to crank it over. Here comes my son-in law who lives in my house who bought the snowblower the year before. He says what's wrong, I said it ran out of gas, and I filled it back up. He says which can did you use; I said my can that I had just bought gas about 2wks. previous. He says I mixed the oil additives for the chain saw and leaf blower in that can. I said when were you going to let me know that. So, I had to suck everything out as best as I could. Put fresh gas in but it still would not run. I had to pull the plug out which was fouled out, cleaned it out because I didn't have another one to put in. Then I Sprayed some starting fluid it started and stalled, then I found some gum cutter carb. spray and used that, it took several times, but it finally started to run on its own again. Just wanted to share that with you. Keep them coming Tarel.
Shop Rules: 1) Never believe or trust the customer. 2) Drain all gas from everything. 3) Remove plug and turn engine over to eject whatever should NOT be in there. 4) etc etc.. WELL DONE SIR!
Hmm 🤔 interesting I’m really wondering what made this customer put the wrong fuel in this, but anyhow it made for a great video…thanks for sharing. 👍👍👍
Just wondering if you have had any generators made from powerhorse that have had any issues I bought a 4500 powerhorse and 48 hours later with 3 oil changes it’s running awesome and I have my 9000 watt champion inverter for my home backup
Taryl I don't about where your at here in southeast texas our 87 octane gas often smells like diesel I tell everyone to run the 89 octane instead because it's better and more in its rating. Have fun
Interesting! My guess, at the fuel-smells-funny point, was that someone had filled the yellow tank from a yellow can, because obviously. Filling it from the blue can? That's a next-level oopsie.
That Happy Dance had me rollin' Taryl !! Good detective work my Man!
Shout out to Mr Camera man. He does a great job.
I just fixed one of these a couple weeks ago under warranty. Champion sucks for their diagnostics as pin outs ect. Their thing is tell us what part you want and we will send it. Ended up replacing the throttle body which has the computer in it. Fault code for coil circuit open/short. Great vids as always. Also the customer uses it for their food trailer, this exact same unit you shown here powers their entire food trailer, and it had 558hrs on it. Got me an awesome free steak n chicken burrito out of the deal😊
I own two Champion Gen sets and have had no issues. Also, I have repaired a few in my shop, usually for stale fuel issues. Wish they had an online seminar on the fuel injected models. Thanks
So that’s what’s meant by…. There’s your dinner
@@WJCTechyman champion's training is goto their website and watch their UA-cam videos per fault code repairs. The fault code I had was f010 ignition coil circuit short/open. I pulled the coil and bench tested it and it worked fine, champion sent one out, replaced it, still same issue, they have a basic wiring diagram in the owners manual, but since I've been a master automotive technician for yrs I had to make my own pin out and found no circuit ground through the carbon monoxide detector, i had them send me that and a throttle body because i was down to those 2 items. Carbon monoxide detector didn't resolve it, throttle body fixed it. My opinion its just stupid not to offer a proper service manual and or flow chart diagnostics. They are relying on that fault codes to tell them what needs replaced and im sorry i don't care how advanced your diagnostic stuff is, there is always something that sets false codes.
@@watermanone7567 Is there a way to ensure that there is no fuel left in the system when the generator is put away?
I have a red gas can I use for diesel, I did use a magic marker and wrote diesel fuel on the can.
I got a Champion and really like it. Wanted a Honda but the same wattage unit was 6x the price.
The detective in me says it's grandpa's generator, and it was the work of Little Johnny who poured the kerosine in the gas tank.
Way to go Lil Johnny.
Well I admit I have a shop and lots of yard machines here. Every now and then I buy Kero to wash up dirty engine parts. And I managed to get it in my tractor... Had me scratchin my friggin head for an entire month it ran wonky as hell. And then that big fat lightbulb came on in my head...
When plastic oil bottles became a thing I began punching 1/16" to 1/8" holes in their caps and using them to squeeze-bottle-feed gas engines with fuel problems. Long ago I noticed that EFI engines that had water/other unburnable crap in their fuel system could >sometimes< be made to pass the bad stuff on through if they could just be bottle-fed for long enough time.
I caught my grandson having fun squirting charcoal lighter on some charcoal that was already burning well. Gave me the idea to show him how to keep an engine running with a squirt bottle. So now that is my Go-To procedure for any EFI engine that isn't getting fuel.
I usually choose ten minutes as my time limit. If they don't get going by then I assume the problem is not bad fuel.
PS - a couple times I found defects in the EFI computer to the effect that if I ran it long enough to get the (Heated or Unheated) Oxygen Sensor generating a signal it would continue to run "closed loop". Once I found a pickup truck that had the wrong fuel pump installed (not enough pressure) this way. The (default initial) Open Loop injector pulses + low pressure weren't enough fuel for it to run on - but when it warmed up and went Closed Loop the computer could lengthen out the pulses and it would run fine up to about 3/4 throttle.
Little Johnny grabbed the yellow can to fill the yellow tank...
That funny.
More likely someone filled a red can with kerosene .
I've learned so much watching taryl videos over the years
Your olfactory diagnostics equipment got it right! 👍
gotta keep up with the EPA rules you know the extra problems always is what it stands for.
Another great video Taryl! Starting a small engine business this year, love your content. Been a mechanic for over 30 years and I always learn something new on your videos. I live in N.W. Alabama, but I was born and spent a lot of my childhood not far from you in Winchester, In. Keep up the great work!
Great video, glad to see something about fuel injection. Let's see more if possible with that stuff being more common and coming off warranty
Indeed, as much as I believe fuel injection is superior in pretty much all areas, for the moment I can fix a carb, but I probably cannot fix an injector (and they put a security torx, which I have the bits for, but it probably means that repair shops won't get parts for that anyways).
@@OlivierCaron As soon as these become mainstream, the chyna fuel injection components will follow. You can count on it.
I remember back a few years ago looking for some information on a 14 hp v twin vanguard with a tapered shaft, ran across one of your videos, thought you were a pot smokin leftover hippie from the UK. Must have timed it when you were talking with a British accent and your dental hygiene looked spot on. I remember being in a hurry and didn’t stick around past the skit, for I was looking for some answers to my problem. Now I have subscribed and am always looking for new videos no matter how corny the acting, the truth is I know you know sumshit and watching a left handed person work on stuff is like listening to a guest speaker with a speech impediment you tend to pay closer attention. I worked on electrical stuff for John Q. Public throughout the years and they can be a fickle lot and after several years of building up a reputation they stop trying to fool you because they know you’ll figure out they screwed up. Well anyhoo thanks for being unique and entertaining.
Taryl is the Austin Powers of small engine repair. Yeah baby!
I bought a couple Taryl shirts last year I am impressed with how nice the quality of the shirts and the printing is. Worth the money. The stickers are a lot of fun too lol!
I had a ford fission and it wouldn’t start, crank no start issue. They had issues with pcm ignition coil drivers staying on and melting down the coils, so I found couple of burnt coils and replaced them and the pcm. After waiting forever for a pcm. It til wouldn’t start. Took a fuel sample, did abs ethanol test, passed. I poured a little on the ground to see how it burns, it lit then went out. It has that odd smell to. I suspect diesel, it mixes with gas very well and takes on the same color, where as kerosene is due pink, seems it be more obvious. The crap we run in to, just crazy sometimes! I enjoy watching your videos though, always learn something and entertaining!
Great vid brother! I just so happened to wake up Saturday morning to no power. Drug the old Troy-Bilt 8500W/15hp Briggs out from under the bench and it fired on the first pull on 18 month old non ethanol+Sta-Bil. I know you don't care for Sta-Bil (I did watch that series), but it's worked for me.
Interesting video. Kudos to your camera operator!
You are the man ! Thank you for teaching us ! I personally have learned much from you, you have saved me so much aggravation. I appreciate you !
Seems like an EFI setup is going to make it a bigger PITA to properly drain all the gas out of the tank and lines for storage. That’s one thing I like about a conventional carb setup, you can drain everything out through the float bowl before it gets put away.
I don't think so. Just disable the fuel pump and run the engine until it quits. You can also use the fuel pump to drain the fuel tank.
This generator will be easier than most to drain. The tank has a drain plug in place of the legacy petcock. Then manufacturer can't just put a petcock and drain hose in its place, since that people would turn mistakenly turn it and create a fuel spill. But the end user could.
Many carbs *don't* have an easy drain. That's pretty much a Honda and clone feature. Some old carbs had a spring loaded valve intended to drain a few drops of water, more important in the days before E10, but you wouldn't want to drain the system that way.
A feature of this system is that the fuel system can be partially sealed. The fuel pump can work against a partial vacuum, and the injector can withstand high pressure. The tank vent only needs to open under high vacuum and pressure. The tank for a float bowl carburetor can't allow any significant pressure. Even if a new needle can hold 5 psi, it's not safe to count on a worn needle sealing against a heat-pressurized tank.
@@Discretesignalsthat wouldn’t work because the injector requires the pressure of the pump in order to spray.
However, what Tyrel did in the video would be the procedure. The disconnecting the line to the fuel injector would remove most of the fuel from the system.
@@Discretesignals Only problem with that is if the fuel pump is disabled, the electronics may not let the engine run. So many interlocks, safties, etc.
There's nothing different about draining an EFI system either...
Empty the tank, start it up, and let it run til it quits...
Why in the HELL would you just shut the fuel off on a carbed engine, and then drain the bowl? So that you end up with stale gas that you STILL have to drain out of the tank later?? 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
Just do it the PROPER way the first time, and be DONE with it...🤨
Great job 👏👍
Im a small engine shade tree machanic and have been since i was like 5 or 6 years ago and im autistic and 19 years old now and i love your videos
Oh look some who is also autistic! Me too! I’m 17
As always, great info.
Well done.
Taryl, great job troubleshooting that generator. I learned something thanks.
I have a real nice quiet Champion 3500 for my camper that I really like. Best thing about it is it has a remote starter so when you get up in the morning you don't have to put on your skivvies before starting the coffee. Just hit the remote. They have the same generator in dual fuel, gas/propane however it doesn't have the remote starter. Plus it only weighs a little over 100lb so I can load it in my truck easy enough.
Im a gen tech and i have one of those 3500s, I got it for like 125$ and no doubt it's super quiet.
I know it's not going to last forever, but it's ok.
When my power is out ,I'm on the road anyway fixing other people's stuff.
I've left it running for around 10-12hrs straight while I'm out and it's good enough.
Probably not a bad idea to get an extra voltage regulator and/or some brushes for it though.
Great video!
Before i finish watching this i'll tell a lil story. I had a gen that would run about a minute and die, after cleaning everything and had good gas flow it still did the same thing. I finally drilled out the gas inlet hole at the needle valve, it worked!!! For some reason there wasn't enough gas to keep the bowl full.
This is so cool to see transparent warranty work
@@WJCTechyman AND - because they didn't tell Taryl "the rest of the story", the labor charge will be doubled! hahaha
It's people like them that keep people like you in business.
I couldn't believe the number of wires connected to that fuel injected carb. I think they use the same carb on the space shuttle.
Replace the EFI system with a carb.
@@johnfromnj885if you even can
@@WJCTechyman Ya know what, you're right about the governor linkage. I think, have to check, the governor is there, the linkage is missing. But I stand by my first post in this video. There is no value to putting EFI on small engines.
@@WJCTechyman Carbs aren't headaches. Maintained correctly, they will run years without a problem, and when they do fail, it's an easy fix. IDK what headaches you're talking about.
@@johnfromnj885 , REGULATORS will be constructively mandating EFI for the same reason it became commonplace for cars: Emissions compliance. Contrary to all the advertising over the years, "performance" or "fuel economy" didn't drive adoption; emissions did. Crazy people in California's legislature just outlawed ALL internal combustion engines(!), so Champion and the overseas engine manufacturer are actually ahead of the curve on this move. Sane places will likely continue to allow ICE's, but the compromise will likely involve additional emission controls. It will drive the price of everything up, of course.
Believe the throttle body housing has the ecu built into the bottom im thinking also since its fuel injected it should have a mass air flow sensor or manifold sensor to measure the air flow for fuel mapping? Can someone explain if I'm worng on this thanks.
Interesting test, and information how to clear a fuel problem when working on a small EFI engine. Thanks Taryl! Based on my personal experiences, EFI works well and seems to be very reliable on small engines. I had a 26 hp EFI Kohler with a ton of hours that never gave me any issues. The 37 hp EFI Vanguard I have now on the newer mower has been equally as perfect, for a the 4 years I’ve owned it. It’s my understanding those two engines use a slightly different EFI system but both ran perfectly even when cold. That stated a carbitrator is still simpler to fix.
Not really, a fuel injector is pretty simple to unplug and replace, and less fiddly than trying to find a rebuild kit for a chinese carb. As far as reliability goes, cars have been fuel injected since about 1986. My Dad has one of the last Toyotas with a carb, a 1985 Toyota Tercel. Engine has been rebuilt 3x, but still has the original carbitrator on it.
@@brnmcc01 actually fuel injection was available on old corvettes 58 maybe?
Taryl, I got one of those Champion suitcase 2500 watt Champion's based on your prev advice on one of the Honda generator videos I think. It's one of those dual fuel inverter units, and I got a 20lb BBQ tank for it. So far after 5-6 hours of using it, the tank is still about 3/4 full, I weighed the tank when it was new before and after. They advertise 34 hours of running time on one tank with a small load, but I think they only put 15lbs of LP gas in it, based on the stamped tank tare weight, so about 24 hrs is more like it based on what I've used so far. Anyway it seems like a good unit, nice little carb, and puts out perfect 120v and 60 Hz. Snagged it off the ol Scamazon on sale was like $400. Much cheaper than the Honda which is only like 2200 watts.
I don't run gas in it, don't want the headache of stale fuel, propane never goes stale, tank will rust out before that happens. The carb does have a nice 1/8" clear vinyl drain hose from the carb bowl tho, and a simple Philips screw to loosen to drain the gas for storage. It even came with a cute little funnel to make it easy to add oil.
Nice moves Taryl...
Help me understand the necessity of efi on a generator or any small engine?
In my best Maxwell Smart voice: "AH, the old Diesel Fuel in the gas tank trick, huh?"
I've got 2 Champion generators, a 3200 watt inverter and a 3500 watt conventional open frame, and they've been great. I installed an external tank extended run system on the inverter genny, it's run 3 days nonstop several times now and it doesn't miss a beat. I've needed to use their customer service a couple of times too for a few different items (bought a wheel kit for the 3500 open frame, and it had the fuel tank vent "tipover valve" broken when I opened the box so they sent me a replacement, and I requested a high altitude jet kit and an extra remote start fob for the inverter) and every time I have been 100% satisfied with Champion. I've seen a number of people online really bashing on Champion's customer service, but I'd bet good money that 99% of those folks bring it on themselves, truth be told.
They haven't tried Honda's customer service lol, Champion is night and day difference.
Thanks for the video, I usually learn something and always enjoy watching!
Awesome video God Bless you and your family
Thank you for sharing.👍
Nice job Taryl! I remember you said something didn’t smell right!
It is better than saying, "I smell something awful" followed by, "yes, you do" :)
@@calvinmientke3539 Ha!
Great video taryl fixes 😎
Good job Taryl.🇺🇲
I was always losing nuts by bumping my worktable/bench until I saw you use a magnetic bowl on a video. I invested in a few of them to put around the shop and haven't lost a nut or screw for a LONG time. Not the purpose of this video but was reminded of a lesson/resource gained as you were removing the electronic carbonator. Thanks!
Yup, losing your nuts by bumping into a table can be painful.
@@thomasleary1807 LOL - ouch!
when you said it "smelt" funny, first thing I thought was diesel fuel.....I will watch to the end now
You can do a paper test. If you put gas on paper it will dry up completely if there is any diesel or kerosene an oily stain will be left.
Or dump a little on a clean steel work bench or glass plate, and let it dry. Gas will evaporate, diesel will not evaporate and leave an oily film.
Your nose WILL tell you MUCH faster than that...
Only if it's 100% diesel, if it's a mix, it stinks like gas. @@davelowets
Green Industry Pro said you will go viral one day and I don't doubt that for a minute. My favorite video and what lured me in years ago was the small engine repair school one with the gorilla, and various other oddities. You only had about 1K subscribers and maybe 3K views, but I loved it and will be a fan until you no longer need to do this. In reference to this video, never leave any fuel more than 3 months in a Champion carb, always burn it out and drain fuel, But, otherwise they are good quality for Chinese sourced equipment and replacement carbs OEM are very reasonable.
Awesome thank you
Very good video my friend you are the man I agree it's not a good idea to keep it running with starter fuel God Bless You And the Crew and there's your dinner💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I'm thinking maybe a spray bottle with gas in it would be the first resort with a fuel delivery issue. That way if you get it running, you can keep spraying gas into the venturi for as long as you need.
Good job
I have a dual fuel one that runs gas or propane. Only used it a couple times but it's nice! Pretty sure the kill switch is also a fuel valve so the carb doesn't stay full. (Could be wrong, haven't tested that)
I sees you have a John Deere 318 in the shop. I love the 318. Great video
Taryl, I love your videos! Little note, here. That Ball brand mason jar is no longer made. Hang onto it. It may become worth something. Reminded me of watching Mom canning fruit, long ago.
Well two things come to mind watching the video. first injectors usually run with 43.5 psi from the fuel pump & it also looked like the volume was low. So in the future I guess you will need to start testing fuel pump pressure when trouble shooting fuel issues with injector systems. I guess you could use a hydrometer to test if you have pure gas or a Mixture by specific Gravity of the mixture, or in your case the smell test because as you said they do smell different. Nice Catch TFA.
Man, that Dactyl sure got the moves. I wish I could dance like that.
Good one Taryl. The nose knows.
Love the videos
That's what's bad working on something you don't know what they put in it ko or diesel.thanks for the videos
Needs a new battery haha. Love your show keep it up.
the cover-up of the actual offense gives us mechanics a hard time at figuring stuff out...like pouring new oil in an engine after it blows up...or putting gas in a tank after you ran diesel through it etc
Yep, it's hard for a knucklehead customer to admit to knuckleheadedness!
Yeah its like I'm back in tech training where the instructors bug things and you have to diagnose them.
Very good, i like it
Happy new years
Pretty interesting, I work on overcomplicated fuel injected vehicles every day and now see that small engines are following the same path. At least its throttle body injected and not direct injected yet.
Stihl has a CHAINSAW with fuel injection. A mf CHAINSAW...
Yeah no thanks they can keep it
@@zefautinothat chainsaw also has Bluetooth....
@@albinklein7680 FFS, has stihl partnered with lidl to sell parkshit?
They'll have to get to port injection before they go full direct injection uet
I haven’t read through your comments to see if somebody else has stated it yet but, if you go on a site that sells Champion and read reviews for this exact model, you’ll find that there is a problem with the sine wave output that gets the total harmonic distortion above 5%, closer to 10-15%, which in a lot of cases for some people cause havoc with the items they are trying to run off this generator and therefore the generator is not suited for that operation. It doesn’t openly state that in their specifications, unless you get deep into the manual, according to one reviewer.
I’ll bet you don’t have that problem with the Honda setup.
Didn't get a notification. I heard people talking about this, never believed it, until only recently have I noticed it This instance and another channel. You look like Richard Simmons dancing.. LOL I think I understand. Thanks Taryl.
Sometimes you have to put a bit of the fuel on the cement floor then throw a match in it to see if it flash fires. Occasionally someone would put some diesel in a gas tank or vis versa by mistake, sure did make engines run poor
Good catch on the fuel. I was guessing it had a carbon monoxide defector going crazy.
Does it (the EFI) really make a difference in economy or comfort? I have an about fifteen years old 4kVA Kipor inverter generator with a standard carburettor. A friend of mine has the recent model of the same generator with EFI. I absolutely, totally and definitely cannot make out any difference in starting behaviour, fuel economy or things like noise. The only difference is that the about two year old EFI generator was already fixed two times on warranty while my carbureted one ran for fifteen years with barely any issues (after about a thousand hours a rocker arm broke (a $15 fix...) and a few times I had to flush the fuel tank because of stale gas).
Taryl NOSE his stuff 😃
Even though it fuel injected on the fuel line in side does it still have that screen in line filter ?
I remember when Polaris introduced their first fully electronic EFI snowmobile. I was hip deep in snowmobile repair at the time. I had already commented on the fact the electronics would probably fail due to the nature of the environment they were expecting the electronics to operate in. My predictions came true as I suspected. The electronics couldn't handle the climate and were not properly potted, nor insulated enough for the conditions they were expected to run in. Now they of course, have it perfected. In the beginning, the electronics would fail in short order. The EFI system was a nightmare. My opinion was that they rushed this into production without proper long-term testing. At the time, I was attending the Snowmobile manufacturers open house in Grayling MI, and they would ask us mechanics our experiences on what worked and what didn't. I met many decent people in the industry and was amazed at how much the industry valued our input. Unlike the other small engine manufacturers that just pump out scrap and we get to pick up the pieces.
That was just RETARDED on Polaris' end.
Automobiles have had EFI electronics in them for DECADES that has been nothing but reliable.
There's NO reason that Polaris couldn't have made their electronics reliable
@davelowets They rushed it into production was the biggest issue. Had they consulted those working in the industry, they would have known what was bound to happen. I remember a couple mechanics saying the potting material was actually cracking from the cold. Vibration was also a huge issue on that first year. I saw a huge disconnect with Polaris and their consumers that year. They learned from it.
Yep we had a brand new one that was 5000 Watts pull cord fell off got another one same exact problem
I had the same problem with my neighbors' snowblower and 2 backpack blowers. Fortunately, they told me they had put diesel in them, which was an easy fix.
WOW what a mistake on a very expensive piece of equipment. Great job Taryl
Way to go Carol !
Awesome video. Thank you.
Nice fix
Hi Taryl & Co.
I've found diesel, engine oil, and even screen wash in fuel tanks 😮
I all was loved your skits
My family has been a big Honda fan for a long time, but when it came to a generator my dad has always had a Champion since I was little. Still going strong today
I would love a Honda generator like that. I am not willing to spend the $5500 plus sales tax on one though. I'll run the $1k China ones 6x for the cost of that Honda.
Be fair. The $5500 Honda you mention would be an inverter generator, this Champion is not. But on a much more important issue….you admit you would have to run 6 of these generators to one Honda. That would be the same money spent in the end while going through the hassle of replacing your generator 6 times and generating 6x the waste…help me understand this logic.
@@vg3430 no guarantee on how long either will last. The Honda could be obsolete in 1-10 years if a part breaks and they don’t make that part anymore. The champion could run a year, a decade or who knows how long.
My current $800 generator has been running fine/reliably for the past 6 years. Only used for power outages. I did have to put a carb on it due to running ethanol fuel and letting it sit 6 months.
Manual pull start too if the electric start fails?
something I was remiss in mentioning. Cars go into "closed loop" this means all the sensors kick in. Air temp, water temp, MAP or MAF, O2. Without those sensors, there is no closed loop and there is no manipulation of the fuel delivery for that "clean burn" they say you'll get. It's basically a fuel table for open loop that is static. Which basically renders EFI no better than a carb. Without sensors, especially an O2 sensor, fuel is not actively adjusted.
Very good point !
@@rl3898 Thank You
YES it STILL is... there IS a map programmed into the system for all of the variable weather elements that the engine could see. There's STILL a temp sensor, map sensor, intake air temp sensor, TPS sensor, and so on
@@davelowets how does it know the conditions with a MAP or Temp sensors? Thanks.
@@davelowets WIthout a wide band 02 sensor, how does it know? Just curious.
I ran into that problem working at a car dealership where a salesmen put diesel into the tank and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run had to drain the tank and clean out the lines and refill with gas
Your love for sniffing made me laugh. Subscribed❤
Love the dance.
I'd prefer an "old fashioned" style generator over the newer inverter types. Yeah they may be quieter but once the inverter goes bad all you got is maybe an engine for a DIY go cart.
Engines are junk too! Plus most have a tapered shaft of odd size so not much can use them for?! Junk junk junk!
Tarel another good video! Always learn something! And have a good laugh with that horsehair and back woods teeth you have. I had a similar problem with a snowblower last year, it ran out of gas so I grabbed the 5-gallon gas can and poured in the gas it would not start. I been an auto mechanic for 55+ years. I was killing my arm and plugged the electric wire for the 110 starter to crank it over. Here comes my son-in law who lives in my house who bought the snowblower the year before. He says what's wrong, I said it ran out of gas, and I filled it back up. He says which can did you use; I said my can that I had just bought gas about 2wks. previous. He says I mixed the oil additives for the chain saw and leaf blower in that can. I said when were you going to let me know that. So, I had to suck everything out as best as I could. Put fresh gas in but it still would not run. I had to pull the plug out which was fouled out, cleaned it out because I didn't have another one to put in. Then I Sprayed some starting fluid it started and stalled, then I found some gum cutter carb. spray and used that, it took several times, but it finally started to run on its own again. Just wanted to share that with you. Keep them coming Tarel.
I suspected that too and also assumed that the fuel injectors were clogged
Shop Rules:
1) Never believe or trust the customer.
2) Drain all gas from everything.
3) Remove plug and turn engine over to eject whatever should NOT be in there.
4) etc etc..
WELL DONE SIR!
7:59 Best tool!
Hmm 🤔 interesting I’m really wondering what made this customer put the wrong fuel in this, but anyhow it made for a great video…thanks for sharing. 👍👍👍
Love my Hondas...they always start
Even on kerosene!
Just wondering if you have had any generators made from powerhorse that have had any issues I bought a 4500 powerhorse and 48 hours later with 3 oil changes it’s running awesome and I have my 9000 watt champion inverter for my home backup
Thank you
Complexity adds to the reasons it won't start when you really need it.
Taryl I don't about where your at here in southeast texas our 87 octane gas often smells like diesel I tell everyone to run the 89 octane instead because it's better and more in its rating. Have fun
Interesting!
My guess, at the fuel-smells-funny point, was that someone had filled the yellow tank from a yellow can, because obviously. Filling it from the blue can? That's a next-level oopsie.
LOL : )
21:58 Champion, Generac, or Harbor Freight? All Chondas! Which would you pick? My neighbor needs one about 8,000 watts
16:50 🤣 !!THERE HE GOES!! 🤣
Finally. Someone puts out a full zipper hoodie. Thanks Taryl.
Can it be changed back to standard carb and ingit