and I don't see anything wrong with a paladin with 20 charisma and 18 strength, it might look weird but expecting all paladins to give more priority to Strength is kinda cliche. I mean, some monk players I see increases their Wisdom first and all they have is single target stun. Why wont a paladin with multiple control spells not increase charisma first?
@@VanxHelsing03 If I am building a character with spellcasting, including half and 1/3 casters, I usually go for a +4 on their spellcasting stat because it lets me fully exploit their abilities. On my first campaign I was having a blast with my eldritch knight dragonborn, Hold Person gave me an excuse to use my acid breath (my dm houseruled that it dealt max damage against incapacitated or paralized targets)
I still don't quite understand why Polearm Master is revered the way it is. 1d4 bludgeoning damage as a bonus action is pathetic mid-late games. The fact that you get opportunity attacks when someone enters your melee range can be countered by ranged attacks, or Misty Step, or an enemy with Mobile, or Legendary Actions. Powerful, especially combined with Sentinel? Yes I definitely understand that... but to me it seems like there's a lot of ways to counter it. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise though. I've yet to be in a game where I see it in practice.
@@jcdenton2187 As far as this channel goes, they mention often that games don't go to very high level most of the time. So I'm thinking the pole arm circle jerk comes from the perspective of not ever needing to do more damage than then what it offers.
It's a LOT more than 1d4 damage. it's 1d4 + STR mod + any magic weapon bonuses + 10 from great weapon master + whatever other bonuses you can pile on. In the case of the Paladin, it's a 3rd attack to deliver another a smite on a target that *needs to die* now. At 11th level it's also boosted by Improved Divine Smite, and would also benefit from spells like Hunter's Mark and Spirit Shroud. It's a LOT of damage... almost a 50% damage increase.
We had a conquest paladin in our playgroup that was absolutely amazing, he played a dragonkin with the racial feat to turn his breath attack into a shout that made people cower in fear and he roleplayed the character as a pirate captain. Probably one of the best concepts i've seen, a dragon pirate captain who ran around shouting at people and making them flee at the sight of him.
I played a one shot that allowed Unearthed Arcana, so I multiclassed Conquest Paladin and Undead Warlock. Once per turn my attack can cause someone to be feared. I was a Fallen Aasimar so I had a form that caused fear. My channel divinity caused fear. I took a shit ton of fear spells from the Warlock spell list. Nobody could move around me. There's battlefield control, and then there's a 10ft radius sphere where nobody is moving except the extremely angry man in the middle. I of course had a polearm.
@@jcdenton2187 sadly that feat has a bit of anti-synergy with the oath of conquest aura, since the aura damages the target at the start of their turn, which gives them a new save against dragon fear's effect, potentially breaking them out of it and letting them act freely on their turn. It's not terrible, though. Even if that happens, you still got a bit of extra damage in. Especially as of Tasha's racial rules, which let you swap the usual dragonborn +2 str +1 cha for +1 str +2 cha instead, which in turn lets you start with a 17 cha in point buy games, nabbing dragon fear at level 4 to round up to an 18 charisma so you get the frighten burst without slowing your cha progression.
@@jcdenton2187 meh your aura abilities will put you between the front liners and range users. I'd rather pick Tough and max CON second to maximize the Protective Spirit and Aura of Guardian synergy. I feel Eldritch Blast need Agonizing Blast Invocation. But yeah If you can't pick Blessed warrior fighting style picking up Spell Sniper is very viable.
@@acarnivorouslizardfolk1033 I think it is a matter of intention. If you push someone into danger, knowing they might be hurt or even killed by your action, I think it shouldn't count as pacifism. If you just shove them back, however, and they happen to trigger a hidden trap that you didn't know was there, you could argue that it was just a mistake, in the sense that it wasn't your intention to hurt him.
Really love the format of "different opinions " then "compromise/understanding both sides discussion". A lot of other content creators just agree with their discussion partner and that's it.
It seems very forced many times though when they disagree, like they plan beforehand to disagree and decide what will "win them over" to change their mind. It seems very staged.
@@Dan55888 just starting to get into DND and these guys, but I’d say over the videos I’ve seen from them, sometimes they don’t change their opinion sometimes they do, looks like incredibly healthy discussion to me
I think that it's worth noting that the oath of conquest paladin can knock a foe prone and keep it stuck there for as long as it remains frightened. This makes it great not only for maintaining advantage on attack rolls on a target, but also giving that advantage to all of the paladin's melee allies who don't necessarily have it already. All in all I feel like compared to the Oath of Vengeance, Conquest does less damage by itself but it is better at helping the rest of the party deal damage and not die.
I wish I would have read through the comments before posting my version of this lol. My Conquest Paladin has Shield Master to shove enemies prone to facilitate this.
You can go with Battlemaster also for tripping attack and we'll action surge for more smites as well. And if you want to I mean conquest paladin and at least 3 in warlock for hexblade and 3 in fighter for Battlemaster. Also the repoiste manuver to use your reaction to maybe lay down a nasty smite as well. And polearm is nasty with Battlemaster cause you can hit anybody in your aura to knock them prone and get them in the prone trap.
I'm glad you guys agree Redemption was a strong subclass. Played one in a 5e converted Tomb of Horrors and I used rebuke the violent on Orcus after he crit the Barbarian. Did 88 damage on a reaction.
6:42 ‘giving you immunity to all damage’ thank god he misspoke and it’s resistance to all damage, don’t care if it’s a level 20 ability immunity to all damage for a minute would be terrifying.
well, there’s a spell out there that does do that for 10 minutes. it’s 9th level, unique to wizards, and concentration so it’s of limited actual usefulness but it exists.
Even if it was immunity, I don't think it would do anything to your saving throws. So you could end up facing a very powerful spellcaster who can beat your supped-up Wisdom or Int save and turn you against the party... and then they'd be facing an invulnerable ally smiting the crap out of them.
@@Hazel-xl8in Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I desperately need to know how something other than yourself can make you drop concentration if you can't take damage.
I honestly think that Conquest makes a VERY strong case for S, its incredible in almost any setting, and another thing to keep in mind is the creatures that you’ll fight on the way to level 10, the number that are immune to frightened drops significantly which massively raises their stock, then they’re the only Paladin subclass with TWO good channel divinities. On top of that all of their abilities work very well together to make a lockdown tank, and finally pair that with a spell list that helps you out there too, with a mix of defensive and offensive spells is super clutch
Playing an Oath of Conquest Paladin right now and I've realized Wrathful Smite is OP once you hit 7th level. In one action you get to deal damage and if the enemy fails the WIS save are instantly rendered immobile, guaranteed to take psychic damage, and then has to decide whether to spend their next action to try the saving throw again or attack with disadvantage and further psychic damage on subsequent turns.
I agree. I'm starting a campaign Wednesday with a fire genasi paladin and I'm super excited to get to level 3 and take the oath of conquest. It's a Midgard setting so I figured it made sense.
I played a blue dragonborn conquest paladin awhile ago and let me tell you as soon as you hit level 7 it was stupidly powerful. In one fight we were fighting a large group of enemies and I managed to frighten most of them. My dm over the course of the fight rolled 46 times to break free from fear and didn't succeed once. He was very mad(I also got adamantine armor so that didn't help.
Except you never play Oath of Glory. It just sucks. I don't care what they say in the video, Oath of Glory is more like the Oath of Patheticness. The spell list might be good, but most of that stuff is not unique. Haste is on the Oath of Vengeance spell list, and most of the rest of it is either just middling or recycled from various other oath lists. The channel divinity options are PISS POOR, the Aura of Mediocrity is PISS POOR, Glorious Defense is really the only good thing about the subclass, and the final form transformation is decent, but it's really subpar compared to the other classes. I play a paladin to get up in people's faces and DEUS VULT them out of existence. If I were to play into the style of play that the Oath of Glory paladin offers, I would be a worse paladin. Especially that aura. If you were to try to maximize usage of that aura, then you are straight up worse.
Out of all the subclasses, Charisma builds are favored over strength when choosing Conquest, even moreso than Redemption. That's why spiritual weapon is such an important spell for them. I played one with only 16 strength up to level 15 and between Hold Person, Fear, channel divinity and +5 protection aura, the benefits it gave to the other martials while protecting the squishy casters greatly outweighed my personal reduced damage output. If you want to play a paladin without maxing charisma, then conquest isn't the oath you're looking for.
Just started a campaign at lvl 1 and im going Conquest. Our DM gave us a free feat and I took resilient (con). Unsure on what fighting style to pick. Leaning Defense but I also like Dueling and Interception. Did you have any feats? What was your fighting style?
@@ericmata3728 After maxing CHA I chose resilient CON at level 12 because the redemption pally in my party already had Sentinel. Sentinel isn't as important to conquest pallys because of the fear aura, but it is potent if you're going against fear immune enemies. As for fighting styles, Defense is great if you're going to use a reach weapon to offset the lack of shield, and it allows you to whack enemies that are 10ft away that are frozen in place thanks to the 7th level aura. Otherwise if you're going sword and board, choose Dueling if you want more damage, or Protection/Interception if you want to cover your teammates. If Tasha's martial versatility is allowed, you could start with a fighting style for sword and board and then switch to Defense + a reach weapon later when you get the aura.
@@ericmata3728 My DM let me take the menacing UA Skill Feat to increase my CHA by one, get expertise in intimidation, and be able to frighten an enemy in combat.
Completely agree, I kinda of assumed they would undervalue it a bit when they said the would assume the paladins charisma probably wouldn't have higher than a 13 or 14 score. I wish they had been a bit more open to a different build to fit the class.
@@ericmata3728 There's a great build guide and discussion thread for Conquest Paladins on the Giantitp forums, just google "Wall of Fear Conquest Paladins". I'm "malisteen" on those boards, feel free to ask me any questins. In general a Conqueror is building as a sort of hybrid control/support/tank with the usual paladin single target damage gimmick as a fallback when enemies are immune to frighten and/or have strong wisdom saves. Once you have your aura, you can generally rely on frighten effects to keep enemies in line, so Defense is probably the best style. That said, interception is still quite good for tanking before level 7 and when enemies can't or won't frighten, and dueling can help prop up damage a bit when you're otherwise letting it take a back seat - particularly if you opt for a whip as your primary weapon choice. Blessed Warrior is also well worth considering if nobody else in your party has access to guidance, particularly if you aren't planning to multiclass to pick up a ranged cantrip option otherwise. Post Tasha's there really are several good combat style options for Conquerors, so it's nice to have more potential build variety there. In terms of Feats & ASIs, you want to max out your charisma, and sooner rather than later. Beyond that, you really need to shore up your concentration saves with either resilient or war caster. The latter is way better if you're multiclassing into warlock or sorcerer at any point, otherwise the former's generally the way to go. After that... you can shore up your strength, and probably should if you haven't dipped hexblade or found some strength fixing gauntlets or belts yet. Otherwise, Sentinel is a big help tanking frighten-proof foes, Alert is a huge boost to initiatives and avoiding surprise (there's a big big difference between locking down enemies in your aura before or after they've had a chance to swarm your charges), Inspiring Leader is a massive boon to the party's overall daily HP reserves, Fey Touched is probably the best feat in the game if you happen to find yourself with an odd charisma in need of rounding out (at least, it is if your DM doesn't let you use Menacing from the long abandoned skill feats UA), and Lucky is just an excellent feat that makes any character better at everything. Pick from that pile when filling out open ASIs and you'll do fine.
Oath of conquest paladins make for a phenomenal bbeg, especially if you're going up against an entire clergy of them. The Oath of conquest also makes for an amazing backstory for an oath of redemption paladin.
My Conquest Paladin is a Warforged that spent so long in stasis after the Great War that he was desperate for orders and purpose. So now he's overzealous in completing any given tasks - "defeat those enemies" becomes "tear them asunder" in his head.
Oath of Glory is a perfect subclass for "this is Sparta" pallie. Kick people off the ledges, be athletic and fast, defend a person next to you, blind enemies with your glorious abs.
I agree. Glory excels when you are going for Shove or Grapple combat options that rely on Athletics. Peerless Athlete really makes the Shield Master feat entertaining.
The look on Kelly's face when they introduce the Oath of Redemption. I just want to bottle it and keep it forever. I love how much back and forth there was between you two for nearly every sub class. (And I really appreciate that Monty barely cut Kelly off when he spoke in this video. ) As usual, phenomenal content. Thanks for the time and effort 😍🤩
I feel like the Oath of Conquest is being a bit underestimated here. To address the point of it being a bit MAD, I would recommend moving some points from strength to charisma, since you're more of a controller than a damage dealer. This will make your save DC more of a hurdle to overcome, and you can supplement your lacking damage with Spiritual Weapon, which will actually grow stronger from your higher CHA. Secondly, while fear is resisted decently often, it is *crippling* in situations where it isn't being resisted. A great example is Wrathful Smite on a large boss enemy like a dragon (which surprisingly don't have immunity to fear). Since its requirement to break the fear is a check as an action instead of a save, that means the enemy has disadvantage on breaking frightened _because of the effects of being frightened._ At best, the dragon has disadvantage on all attacks and is completely immobilized by your aura, at worst, it wastes an entire round breaking free. And thats not accounting for the combination of fear + prone, which is permanent in your aura since it reduces your enemies' speed to 0 and thus they can't get back up from prone. Combine this with a fear effect that requires them to Dash or Dodge (neither of which work with 0 speed either btw) from the Fear spell or a Mace of Terror, and you can reduce an entire encounter to cowards groveling in fear at your feet, literally unable to move or act in any way, all while your entire party gets advantage on melee attacks against them. Using this method, I have literally routed entire armies single-handedly with fear + Destructive Wave.
I never noticed that wrathful smite was an ability check before. I guess I just assumed saving throw. That spell just got a huge boost in the way I view it. Thank you. Edit: I just checked and the fear spell doesn't require them to dash or dodge. It requires them to dash unless there is nowhere to go.
@@asherandai1000 I feel like that must’ve been a typo or something for that spell lol. AFAIK it’s one of the only spells that requires a check to resist after the initial saving throw, as opposed to just more saving throws. And since, like OP said fear imposes disadvantage on ability checks, they’re likely never going to break free from that effect as long as your DC is relatively high. I think the Conquest Paladin is similar to Redemption Paladin in the sense that you’ll benefit a lot more from focusing on your CHA score as opposed to your STR score
@@yooooo8600 There are other spells that require checks after the initial saving throw, web springs to mind as one. Also something I've noticed is that fear effects often seem to work in a slightly different ways depending on the source. The Fear spell for example forces creatures to use their action as a Dash, while most other fear effects don't do that. Some fear effects require that they have to be out of line of sight and/or over 60ft away before they can attempt to save against the fear (after the initial failed save), others they can save against at any time. Some force them to run away, others don't require them to run away beyond the frightened condition restriction of "can't move closer". There's even one or two somewhere that disappear the moment they take damage... unless those got changed in an update? I can't find them anymore, but I know I've seen them. Anyway, point is I really don't see the problem in Wrathful Smite working the way it does. It's not unique in needing checks over saves, and it only affects one enemy so it's definitely not overpowered. They can still attack back, albeit at disadvantage, so they aren't totally powerless. Even if they can't pass their check they can still break your concentration. Frankly the difficulty of passing the check is the only thing that makes the spell not total garbage.
I agree that Oath of Conquest is underrated, it should be S tier as far as I can see it. Where Vengeance Pal is strength based damage dealer, Conquest is your social Paladin be it from enemies cowering in fear. Charisma is primarily followed by Strength, my Paladin now lvl 9, started with 16/16 str/chr but went 16/18 at 4th the 18/18 at 8th. Sword and board style. I regret taking str at 8th because I should have gone Chr 20. Spiritual weapon, fear, shove, so many greatcombos for control. Also party face based on intimidation rather than being nice lends to so many role-playing opportunities.
@@asherandai1000 The "dash or dodge" wording was specifically referring to the effects of the Mace of Terror, which does have a caviat that they can take the dodge action if they're unable to run away from you. I was just sort of combining the effects of Fear and the MoT for brevity's sake. Regardless, the end result is the same, since both the Dash and Dodge actions have no effect if your speed is reduced to 0.
Huh, thanks dudes, changed my mind about Redemption pallys! I’m thinking of running one instead of an Oath of the Ancients for a more defensive playstyle.
My 1st 5e character was a Redemption Pally, provided your DM is okay with you finding non-violent solutions it can be really powerful, if they only give you the option to kill every enemy it's still good but loses it's most awesome stuff.
The Redemption Pally is great in instances where you need a face because his non-combat lvl3 skill is Savage. A +5 is better than doubling proficiency in most cases (only loses at really high lvl when proficiency becomes +6) and you can get expertise with some multiclasses / feats to boost it up to really insane lvls. Ok, you lose that one spell that every Bard takes and make your tests a 15 ir higher. But you'll be better untill the 8th lvl spells gets online wich is a huge part of your character's life.
@@albertonishiyama1980 I gave my variant human redemption the prodigy feat with expertise in persuasion. Prioritizing charisma I have +15 persuasion when I use the channel divinity at level 6. And it lasts for 10 minutes! It's perfect for those moments when you just need to diplomat through something.
The thing I like about the conquest paladin is how it fits into the "I am the one who will rule" kinda fantasy by being able to single out the opposing leader, wrathful smite (which requires a CHECK to break which they now have disadvantage on) them and they fear the minions and you make their leader a cowering pleb. If you manage to shove them prone as well then they have no choice but to break the fear or cower at your feet ( 0 ft movement in aura means no standing up)
Them: "Paladins usually have only a 2 or 3 to their Charisma Mod, and you don't see much higher." Me, always putting my second highest in Charisma for Paladin no matter if I multiclass or not: "... I have every single Lay on Hands in existence. "
Seconded. Cha and Str hit 20 ASAP for me, and Con mops up any spares/takes an attunement item if necessary. Otherwise I'll slap on some high AC and tank shit but not getting hit instead.
I'm guessing the Dungeon Dudes are going by Standard Array and Point Buy, both of which are just awful in general. If they are, that would make sense. Otherwise... no, most Paladins I've seen have that as their second highest stat usually.
As a Oath of Glory lover I will put my two cents out there: - I love the fact that the Paladin, who is already absurdly good in combat, has something to do in a non combat environment. In my experience, as most campaigns I like to play in and master at are skill and roleplay heavy, it just sucks when the Oath of Vengance paladin tries to roleplay their anger and hate or the Oath of Conquest tries to show off their utilitarism and they just suck at social or skill challenges because all they do is kill good. The Oath of Glory (or as we have dubbed it in my table, the Chadladin) always can show off their athletic and charismatic might. - You are playing wrong the Glory paladin if you are always spreading out your temp hit points among a crowd. You need to remember from the Chadladin that the key playstyle is "I am awesome and maybe I will make you awesome too". The Oath of Glory will not share their temp hit points. They habe the choice to do so, but what they mostly will be doing is run in with their increased speed and haste on, smite and gain that buffer shield of temp hit points, and from there they will be hitting and refusing to miss and sometimes giving a hand to the rest of the party In short, I fucking love the Oath of Glory Paladin for a single reason, it is a different kind of Paladin. It is a Paladin that takes advantage of skill challenges and has a ton more mobility than even the Vengance paladin. It is a selfish Paladin who doesn't help the party until it is required, but has the option to do so. In short, it a Chad asshole sportsperson who will strike you in the head with the might of its own amazingness
I just recently made an oath of glory paladin coz my party seems to need a tank/healer. Seeing this vid made me slightly regret i chose it because how they rated it, but seeing your comment made my conviction stronger to be proud of choosing this sub class. And so, im grateful for your input :)
Eh, still think it’s more useful for a Hexblade. Armor of Agathys is one of those spells that’s only so-so at low levels but is pretty amazing when upcast. If you cast it at 3rd level, that’s only 15 temp HP, and as a frontliner it’s very likely that an enemy will do 15 damage or more on one attack
Yeah, you both have a great point. Armor Of Agathys IS amazing for a frontliner, but most frontliners aren't full casters and as such don't have high level spell slots to upcast it to, which mitigates it's use. I actually think it might be best on a caster; Con as your second highest stat, hold the front lines alongside the dedicated tanks. Bonus points if you have two casters working together on it; the frontliner concentrating on Armor of Agathys while someone else casts Stoneskin or another similar spell on them.
AoA is more a Hexblade or Bladelock thing, with their automatic upcast and short rest spellslots. The opportunity cost for using it as a Paladin is a lot higher, due to long rest spell slots, no automatic upcasting and that it has to compete with Smite.
I love watching how these videos evolve over the series. Each video is better than the last, better constructed, more useful as a tool to show new players and has more nuanced takes and discussion. Absolutely loving the series guys!
Since the other videos were made specifically without Tasha's Cauldron, I was hoping all the rest would also not have anything with tasha in it. Then make a follow up video for either all classes at once or one video per class with just Tasha classes and comparing them to the original video. I hope what I said made sense lol
This is our plan. The only exception is with the Ranger, we are including the revised beast master right away, but all the new subclasses we will review in subsequent videos once we’ve had a chance to play some of them or run games for some of them.
@@DungeonDudes, my one difference of opinion with your list is that the oath of glory's inspiring smite and aura of alacrity alone make it a mid A tier. Other than that, I whole-heartedly agree with your list, as you bring up great points about each sub-class. I have had 2 instances where being an oath of glory paladin has benefited my party. I was able to keep our sorcerer alive because I used my inspiring smite to give him about 15 temp. hp at level 3, and when I was able to run down fleeing enemies by either bodying them with a guiding bolt or just straight-up running them down with 40 movement speed. The main reason that I like oath of glory is because I love to play a paladin that aggressively rushes into combat, and can give both temp hit points to both himself and/or allies, making himself even tankier with a higher amount of hit points. Another reason is that I really only play paladins with a charisma of fourteen, as I pick variant human, with 16 str., con., 14 char., and 10 dex. This means that my spell save is rather pitiful, and the oath of conquest isn't dependent on charisma for its key features. I also value my constitution over everything else. In my opinion, temporarily raising my hit points in combat as a bonus action is just too good to pass up, as well as having a ranged spell attack and 10 more movement speed allows me to more easily damage far away enemies.
I played an Oath of Conquest Pladin once. Together with a Forge Domain Cleric/Fighter, we held the line against against a demonic incursion. The other guy didn't survive that fight, so we gave him a heroes funeral. Those two videos made me want to play a Vengeance Paladin using a little bit of the religious stuff borrowed from Warhammer 40k (Catechism of hate as my vow of enmity ;) ) And a warlock multiclass solves another issue for Paladins: Spell slots. Having 1-2 spellslots that come back on a short rest rather than a long rest allows you to smite with much more impunity over running out of gas. And you get access to a nice ranged option on top of that.
My groups Conquest Zariel Tiefling Pali was lucky enough to get her hands on a Belt of Fire Giants Strength around Lv.7, so she's been able to dump a ton of points into CHA without sacrificing her STR at all. Let me tell you, the +5 to saving throws has been a major help to my group.
@@curnott6051 That's just getting a level 15-20 item at level 7. You could have been a mage with a broadsword got that item and be contributing to a party.
@@ruukinen Yeah, but it's still more effective on a Pali. The group beat a rather difficult boss for our level and got 1 very rare item, I won't deny it was a really good drop, our DM later admitted to regretting that he give it to her as it completely broke the character, but, hey, it's what he rolled for the Magic Table H drop, and he said he'd feel dirty taking it away.
@@curnott6051 Yeah but your anecdote doesn't make sense in this context since you are breaking the game balance anyway by giving a character access to items that demigods should have only heard about.
@@ruukinen First if all, I said "lucky enough to get", meaning I knew this was an exceptional case and not the norm. Second, "only demi-gods should know about?" I feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. It was a VR Belt of Fire Giants Strength, not a Legendary Holy Avenger or Vorpal Sword or something. While definitely a hard to come by item, it's hardly an Artifact.
Real quick thing about the Oath of Glory. The ability to add 10ft to your jumps is very good for covering ground. If you find yourself in combat in a town, having a high jump of 18ft means you can usually jump onto a building as a quick example.
Thank you for finally saying aloud "Not everyone wants to play a polearm master." Making every single melee character in all of DnD 5e a freakin' polearm master just makes the game feel bland and repetitive.
Yeah played an oath of conquest paladin and it is amazing. Maxed out my charisma with a 16 and 16 in str and con. She was an absolute beast. Can shut down entire fights with one ability. Very surprised how hard Monty slept on the sub class.
The amount of support that my Oath of Conquest paladin offered our party far outweighed the reduced damage output compared to Vengeance. I could fear enemies for battlefield control, restrict movement so they could not reach our casters, and knock them prone for advantage on attacks- that my melee party members could join in on. Kelly’s point on not taking polearm master is the biggest advantage I took playing my paladin. That bonus action spiritual weapon maintained constant damage, and allowed me to divide my attention to support with my aura. Also sword and board is cooler :P
Oath of Glory channel divinity are combat based in a wrestling or grappling perspective. I agree with you but the view of a paladin armwrestling a giant is cool.
Also, adding 10 feet to your vertical jumps is massive for maneuvering the battlefield. It makes it so you just jump up 15ft tall walls without any checks with only a 14 STR. It's basically the jump spell, that stacks with the jump spell.
Kelly, I think you should change your name to always be Kelly "Conquest" McLaughlin. It has an excellent ring to it! Also, thank you Dudes for these class ranking videos. It's awesome to have additional thoughts and observations on the classes and subclasses.
"What disappoints people about the oath of redemption?" Tbh, the answer is pretty clear to me. The people low rating it are the munchkins that just wanna hit people in glorious combat, thing that the best way to win is to just kill everything fast and don't think that a supportive/control play style is any good.
Personally it’s the fact it doesn’t seem to give anything to the party. Sure, my ally doesn’t take that damage, but the party still did and we still need to expend the same amount of time/resources to heal it up
@@Rj-pw7zs That just means the tank is less safe being where the tank ought be, and because of the tank's inherent tankiness, your party just lost more effective hit points.
@@Rj-pw7zs Oh, fair, having the option is definitely better than not having it, but it still feels.... far less useful and beneficial than, say, an always-on resistance to damage.
I think the glory Paladin would shine if you got him grappling a lot. Peerless athlete gives him advantage on all of his grapple checks and also gives him advantage to do things like shove people down. The increased carrying capacity lets him pick people up or drag them around the battlefield. Put this on a Goliath or firbolg with their extra carrying capacity and you’ve got a character who can pick up a rhino and throw it over a cliff. He’d be able to fill the role of the monk spamming stunning strike and totally shut down your big bad guy while the rest of the party either deals with minions or sneak attacks the fella you’re grappling.
9:30 `Basically, you can be near a target and be like "I'm going to kill you" and everybody else runs away while that person cowers in fear while you murder them - it's pretty epic.` Yeah, that kinda made my day ... so thanks for that. 😹
Hey, so another big reason to pick Conquest Pally for their Spiritual Weapon is that sweet sweet scaling when upcast alongside Spirit Shroud that adds 1d8 to ALL your attacks to enemies within 10 feet. This combo is fantastic because once you unlock it, you basically get to add 3d8 to your turns every turn. Worried about your conquering presence spell save DC being low? Get yourself an uncommon +1 Amulet of the Devout to raise that another notch ON TOP OF getting another use out of your channel divinity per day. Now you’re cooking with oil almost every single combat without having to burn through every spell slot for smites! Other Paladins get access to Spirit Shroud, but only Conquest Pallys get Spiritual Weapon.
Conquest paladin can literally make a crowd of people around him crap themselves in fear until they die. I once turned a 20+ enemy combat encounter into a 3 enemy encounter with one of these.
I Love the oath of glory paladin, it offers something unique like the peace domain. Things that are still useful in combat but aren’t targeted at it there’s more to D&D than combat abilities.
Thank you kelly for thinking of the sword and board not just assuming it will always be a 2 handed paladin. Great job as usual,i always love hearing your thoughts on what made you chose the ranking and while you are not often in lock step as to what is your primary reasons you often are with ranking but if not the counter points you have often swing it one way or the other without any hard choices.
Hexblade is really good, probably the best Warlock option for pure damage. That being said, it’s kind of boring. I’ve never seen someone play a hexblade without entirely re-flavoring the subclass.
Would like to point out a correction for the Conquest Paladin capstone: After the feature is activated, you only gain resistance to all damage, *not* immunity.
It's still really good, especially if combined with Heavy Armor Master for a little bit of extra damage reduction and Armor of Agathys for a few extra hit points
Peerless Athlete is tailor-made for grappling. It gives you advantage on grapple checks (athletics), it doubles your carry limit (meaning you can drag around/lift heavy enemies), and doubles your jump distance (which is one of the primary ways grapplers deal damage -- that is, grapple, then jump in the air with your target and dropping them for falling damage). Peerless Athlete pumps this build pretty significantly.
I personally had a lot of fun playing an Oath of the Crown paladin earlier this year. I actually made a dex-based, lightfoot halfling based on Judy Hopps who was part of the Knights of Tyr and I roleplayed her as close to a police officer as possible in the setting (Avernus FYI). When I got Spirit Guardians, my DM allowed me to have them take the form of sentient suits of SWAT armour; now THAT was a fun session.
I played a Swashbuckler/Oath of Conquest multiclass in an evil campaign for 20 levels and I ended up being the most unorthodox tank, standing toe to toe with just about anything with a profoundly irritating level of survivability and damage mitigation. Didn't deal a ton of damage, until I crit that is...
I'm curious as to what order you took your levels in - did you grab all of one and then the other or did you split it up? What was the final breakdown?
@@thetallwarden I actually started as Battlemaster/Swashbuckler (5/5) but at level 10 I switched to Paladin. Went Paladin to 7 to get the aura, then broke roughly even. Finished at Swashbuckler 11/Conquest 9.
I’d just started a little shepherd who has lost his sheep and has sworn an oath of vengeance to find the thief who stole them! I love your videos because they get me excited to play classes and subclasses I would have otherwise never given a second look!
It will always be satisfying to know that I was naturally drawn to the paladin just because of it's flavor and then found out it was so good because god damn when something entices me with flavor it normally bites me in the ass later. As it stands though, for D&D, my favorite is actually good for a change.
You really touched on something when you talked about the hexadin. I would love a bunch of really in-depth guide to multiclassing every class. Like Paladin to other martial, paladin to warlock, paladin to bard, paladin to other.... would be great to spark discussions on it
Good list and good video. I am surprised you also didn't mention the multi-class with a Divine Soul Sorcerer to earn all those extra spell slots for divine smite.
A conquest paladin shines with high carisma and mid strenght, playing as a tank/battlefield contoler, not as a pure dps. You are not there to bring down the boss, but to control every single creep that's around. And if you ever get your hands on a belt of gianmt strength, voilà.
Unfortunately a lot of people don't really see the value in increased jump height, but it's actually really helpful for a melee-oriented character to hit or especially grapple flying enemies, especially in an indoor battle or against melee or short-ranged flying enemies.
As a DM my favorite thing about these videos is that they help me build encounters around my wierd subclass players (like having lots of athletics challenges for my Satyr Glory Paladin who can jump like 40 feet)
So the Oath of Glory almost makes it to A tier if the campaign is dungeon heavy, where you're regularly in close quarters with both your companions and your enemies.
I think it's also forgotten that this subclass is released with the Theros campaign. Where athleticism etc is highly esteemed and useful in the Iroan Games! I think it definitely has more RP value than combat value..
I’ve been playing an Oath of Redemption Paladin/Divine Soul Sorcerer multiclass. It has been awesome. I get Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, can uses sorcerer slots to Smite, and as they mentioned it really works with having a higher Charisma than Strength.
Oath of Glory Channel Divinity: Take the shield master feat, declare attack action, start with bonus action shove, shove to the ground with advantage, take your two attacks at advantage because you are within 5 feat of a prone target fun way to go crit fishing
I would like to share a few thoughts based on my experience with Conquest (campaign) and Glory (one-shot). My favorite thing about conquest is that this subclass changes dramatically how you play a paladin. More than being good or bad, it gives a unique experience. As a S&B conquest paladin I suggest increasing charisma to 20 (or 18) first and keep CON and STR at 16 (or 18) till level 11 (I took half-elf). I didn't regret at all. It was amazing to have high CON saves to keep concentration of spells after level 6 and I don't remember failing many saves. As a tank, DM threw everything he had on me, multiple attackers, WIS and CON save spells, grapplers, etc. Fear effects compensate the lack of Sentinel (as you are leveling up Attributes). As part of damage comes via spiritual weapon, "low" STR was not that bad. And I loved upcasting armor of agathys while on my steed. That being said, frightened immunity is a thing. Keep always a halberd or a Maul when you need to go full offense and fear is not an option. Between bestow curse, smiting, armor of agathys, +10 to hit, I never felt useless. It's a S tier in certain campaigns and can go down to A or B depending on the campaign (or game session). I recommend for small parties that do not have good BF control. It does a bit of everything, ok damage, awesome survivability, and it still can smite if necessary. Oath of glory: it was better than I thought, but not fantastic. What I really liked as a goliath paladin was to have the permission from my DM to throw medium sized enemies as I was considered 2 sizes larger. It was good to have some ranged options, but not incredible. The extra mobility was actually nice. I overlooked how haste + extra movement was good to overcome certain challenges. Solid B for me. If I play a tankish paladin again, I am really choosing Redemption. It seems incredible, but I've never seen in action.
For the most part I can agree with you ranking. I do wish to state that The Oath of Glory's aura is not intended for your team mates, it's for your mount. Oath of Glory is about just that "Your" glory. when it eventually does extend to 10 ft. it is so you can lead the charge and breach the line. Once again it's you leading the charge breaching the line and they could never have done that with out you. All that is not to say it earns a higher rank just wanted to put it out there so it's easier for others to see how to lean into the theme of the subclass.
In my opinion, the oath of redemption isn’t about pacifism. It’s about doing what you can to convince your enemies not to fight (aka trying to redeem them through seeing the error of their ways), but if they still choose to fight, you give them the consequences
Really great video. I like Oath of Glory a lot and it seems perfect for a character who is an explorer type in a campaign with a lot of tomb raider and wilderness adventures. It's especially potent if you choose a race that already has Powerful Build because then you can really double down on feats of strength like a Hercules.
Oath of Glory's aura is cool if you acknowledge ONE small detail... MOUNTS! You give extra speed to your mount which can be huge. Also... If there are campaigns created around any kind of competition of physical prowess... Like a knight tournament! The subclass becomes A tier totally.
Sword and board Oath of Conquest with Hexblade warlock is literally insane. Max Cha, get enough Str for plate. Then you have access to warlock spells like shield (I can’t say how many times my DM would ask “does a 24 hit”, and I’d just pop shield and be practically invulnerable for a round). You can get access to cool warlock cantrips like lightening lure and booming blade for even more battlefield control. Expeditious retreat might be a bit overkill, but it will get you wherever you need to be in 1 turn. Go for a feat like shield master if you want to keep your enemies prone or add shield AC to certain spell saves, or war caster to use booming blade as an opportunity attack and maintain concentration. Aura gives +5 to all saves for everyone near you. Spiritual weapon to add bonus action damage to whoever you’re engaged with, or attack at a distance. And that’s not even taking into account the channel divinity and conquest aura, or the hexblade’s curse that lets you stack dmg on every hit and crit on a 19, and how it all stacks together with smite. It’s such an amazing tank and battlefield control class, and it might not have the highest DPS, but you’ll still be doing A-tier damage in every fight (and sometimes S-tier damage). And at the same time, you’re adding survivability and giving so many other benefits to your party.
Also since hexblade multiclass is so popular, it may be a worth while to make a tier list specifically of these classes mixed with warlock, when is it best to start taking levels in warlock for maximum output, etc
With Conquest, don't forget that if you are a sword and board variant, you can use Shield Master to knock enemies prone. If their speed is reduced to 0 due to a fear effect, they stay prone. Just another added little bit of control and a great way to give advantage to your melee allies. Wouldn't make it S tier, but still a facet that not many people are aware of.
I think conquest pally would be an S tier for me. Everything up to level 20 is good to excellent, a tier, but I'd bump it up to s tier for the rediculous power of invincible conqueror even compared to other paladin capstone. Also, the polearm master vs spiritual weapon argument is in favour of spiritual weapon for conquest cause you're locking people into melee with you so you probably want the ac of a shield. Also I've played a charisma max conquest pally and even with a slightly subpar strength score my save effects and spells came in solid for allowing me to stand in the middle of the enemy and forcing them to fight me.
I like when you said that peerless athlete is one of the few non-combat focused paladin abilities, when one time, I saw one of them litterall use this to jump high enogh to beat a dragon out of the sky.
I love that you address the multi stat problem of the paladin. The Barbarian has the same problem. But in contrast to the Barbarian you can solve the issue of the low con with taking the tough Feat wich is basically 4 points in con. And yeah I know that you then have a smaller con saves but thats boosted by your Aura. And imo boosting your aura is much more useful than boosting your strength score (Gauntlets of Ogre Power are uncommon after all). I have a Paladin in my group with 20 Charisma its a nightmare to let them roll saves its so rare that they fail with the +5 bonus. And now think about how frustrating it must be to play a Solarian in Starfinder its like playing a Paladin but without heavy Armor proficiency so you need dex on top of it its a nightmare.
Thank you for making these videos! I just started a campaign with one of my players as a first time paladin and he found the last one real useful, happy to see the second part!
"Not everyone wants to play a polearm master."
Thank you Kelly, I get that it's a great feat but I'm just not wild about polearms
Absolutely. It is good but not be all end all feat.
It gets boring having to deal with armies of glaive-wielding baddies all the time.
no magic polearms pretty much either! Join the Monk!
@@samuelbroad11 lol my monk Bugbear, "Why would I need a long stick wit a pointy bit on it? My mitts krump em just fine."
Not everyone wants to play a Polearm Master: there are those who prefer to be a Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter.
"How high are you going to make your Charisma score?"
(Old man voice) "Back in my day, you couldn't BE a paladin unless you had at least 17 Charisma!"
yes, good times those minimum scores
You also had to be human if I remember correctly. Other races couldn't be Paladins.
@@asherandai1000 And Lawful Good! I swear to Heironeous, they'll let ANYONE be a paladin these days!
and I don't see anything wrong with a paladin with 20 charisma and 18 strength, it might look weird but expecting all paladins to give more priority to Strength is kinda cliche. I mean, some monk players I see increases their Wisdom first and all they have is single target stun. Why wont a paladin with multiple control spells not increase charisma first?
@@VanxHelsing03 If I am building a character with spellcasting, including half and 1/3 casters, I usually go for a +4 on their spellcasting stat because it lets me fully exploit their abilities. On my first campaign I was having a blast with my eldritch knight dragonborn, Hold Person gave me an excuse to use my acid breath (my dm houseruled that it dealt max damage against incapacitated or paralized targets)
"You're not a pacifist, you're an accomplice." Priceless.
"It's okay guys, I'm a total pacifist. Those were peaceful smites."
Timestamp?
@@WinterPains 24:50
@@keagasourus9883 Thank you.
Here's your 666th like, my dude.
Wizard subclass review : The Dungeon Dudes - "Polearm Master is the way to go"
I still don't quite understand why Polearm Master is revered the way it is.
1d4 bludgeoning damage as a bonus action is pathetic mid-late games. The fact that you get opportunity attacks when someone enters your melee range can be countered by ranged attacks, or Misty Step, or an enemy with Mobile, or Legendary Actions.
Powerful, especially combined with Sentinel? Yes I definitely understand that... but to me it seems like there's a lot of ways to counter it.
I'm willing to be convinced otherwise though. I've yet to be in a game where I see it in practice.
@@jcdenton2187 As far as this channel goes, they mention often that games don't go to very high level most of the time. So I'm thinking the pole arm circle jerk comes from the perspective of not ever needing to do more damage than then what it offers.
It's a LOT more than 1d4 damage.
it's 1d4 + STR mod + any magic weapon bonuses + 10 from great weapon master + whatever other bonuses you can pile on. In the case of the Paladin, it's a 3rd attack to deliver another a smite on a target that *needs to die* now. At 11th level it's also boosted by Improved Divine Smite, and would also benefit from spells like Hunter's Mark and Spirit Shroud.
It's a LOT of damage... almost a 50% damage increase.
Unironically i am playing a human variant bladesinger/Eldritch Knight though
@@DungeonDudesthink about the fact that you get a third attack with a strength dagger essentially
Oath of Conquest: "You'll stay right there till I'm ready for you!"
My dad when he went to go find my siblings with his belt
"Go lie down and start crying. I'll be with you in a second."
We had a conquest paladin in our playgroup that was absolutely amazing, he played a dragonkin with the racial feat to turn his breath attack into a shout that made people cower in fear and he roleplayed the character as a pirate captain. Probably one of the best concepts i've seen, a dragon pirate captain who ran around shouting at people and making them flee at the sight of him.
"Oh man, look, its a Dragonborn. Don't worry about their breath weapon, it's pretty paultry."
Dragonborn Paladin: "Boo."
"RUUUN!!!"
I played a one shot that allowed Unearthed Arcana, so I multiclassed Conquest Paladin and Undead Warlock. Once per turn my attack can cause someone to be feared. I was a Fallen Aasimar so I had a form that caused fear. My channel divinity caused fear. I took a shit ton of fear spells from the Warlock spell list. Nobody could move around me. There's battlefield control, and then there's a 10ft radius sphere where nobody is moving except the extremely angry man in the middle. I of course had a polearm.
i did this exact concept for a level 20 1 shot. Its almost unbelievable how much damage this class can tank at 20..
So you pretty much made a Dragonborn Blackbeard. Dragonbeard, if you will.
@@jcdenton2187 sadly that feat has a bit of anti-synergy with the oath of conquest aura, since the aura damages the target at the start of their turn, which gives them a new save against dragon fear's effect, potentially breaking them out of it and letting them act freely on their turn. It's not terrible, though. Even if that happens, you still got a bit of extra damage in.
Especially as of Tasha's racial rules, which let you swap the usual dragonborn +2 str +1 cha for +1 str +2 cha instead, which in turn lets you start with a 17 cha in point buy games, nabbing dragon fear at level 4 to round up to an 18 charisma so you get the frighten burst without slowing your cha progression.
the redemption paladin is a paladin subclass where it might be worth to have a higher charisma score then strength
I think a redemption paladin should focus mostly on their constitution and charisma and leave strength to be their third
You'd want to pick up the Optional Fighting Style Blessed Warrior to be able to fight using your high charisma.
I built one and I built it char con dex str wis int
@@KJCVargas Possibly take Charisma Spell Sniper and nab Eldritch Blast if you don't want to multiclass.
@@jcdenton2187 meh your aura abilities will put you between the front liners and range users. I'd rather pick Tough and max CON second to maximize the Protective Spirit and Aura of Guardian synergy. I feel Eldritch Blast need Agonizing Blast Invocation. But yeah If you can't pick Blessed warrior fighting style picking up Spell Sniper is very viable.
Quote of the day goes to: "If you are helping people stab other people, then you are not a pacifist"
Pacifist by technicality? If you're merely blocking the escape of someone evil and another person kills them, does that remove your pacifism?
I mean, if you push them and the fall off the cliff kills them, are you still a pacifist?
@@acarnivorouslizardfolk1033 I think it is a matter of intention. If you push someone into danger, knowing they might be hurt or even killed by your action, I think it shouldn't count as pacifism.
If you just shove them back, however, and they happen to trigger a hidden trap that you didn't know was there, you could argue that it was just a mistake, in the sense that it wasn't your intention to hurt him.
@@ender4101 and I think self defense still counts as pacifism
@@acarnivorouslizardfolk1033 That's an even more difficult discussion, but, yes. To some extent.
Really love the format of "different opinions " then "compromise/understanding both sides discussion". A lot of other content creators just agree with their discussion partner and that's it.
It seems very forced many times though when they disagree, like they plan beforehand to disagree and decide what will "win them over" to change their mind. It seems very staged.
@@Dan55888 Not really, just great arguments for each side.
@@Dan55888 just starting to get into DND and these guys, but I’d say over the videos I’ve seen from them, sometimes they don’t change their opinion sometimes they do, looks like incredibly healthy discussion to me
I think that it's worth noting that the oath of conquest paladin can knock a foe prone and keep it stuck there for as long as it remains frightened. This makes it great not only for maintaining advantage on attack rolls on a target, but also giving that advantage to all of the paladin's melee allies who don't necessarily have it already. All in all I feel like compared to the Oath of Vengeance, Conquest does less damage by itself but it is better at helping the rest of the party deal damage and not die.
Also if you're multiclassing warlock, add in Eldritch Smite to automatically knock enemies prone. It's such a mean combo
I wish I would have read through the comments before posting my version of this lol. My Conquest Paladin has Shield Master to shove enemies prone to facilitate this.
Conquest pallies excel in campaigns that focus on feudal warfare
Ahh, the Prone Trap...my DM's bane(at least in low-level phases of the campaign)
You can go with Battlemaster also for tripping attack and we'll action surge for more smites as well. And if you want to I mean conquest paladin and at least 3 in warlock for hexblade and 3 in fighter for Battlemaster. Also the repoiste manuver to use your reaction to maybe lay down a nasty smite as well.
And polearm is nasty with Battlemaster cause you can hit anybody in your aura to knock them prone and get them in the prone trap.
I'm glad you guys agree Redemption was a strong subclass. Played one in a 5e converted Tomb of Horrors and I used rebuke the violent on Orcus after he crit the Barbarian. Did 88 damage on a reaction.
"no yu"
What a great rpg moment!
6:42 ‘giving you immunity to all damage’ thank god he misspoke and it’s resistance to all damage, don’t care if it’s a level 20 ability immunity to all damage for a minute would be terrifying.
well, there’s a spell out there that does do that for 10 minutes. it’s 9th level, unique to wizards, and concentration so it’s of limited actual usefulness but it exists.
Even if it was immunity, I don't think it would do anything to your saving throws. So you could end up facing a very powerful spellcaster who can beat your supped-up Wisdom or Int save and turn you against the party... and then they'd be facing an invulnerable ally smiting the crap out of them.
@@jcdenton2187 Paladins are proficient in Wisdom saves and they also have aura of protection.
@@yooooo8600 yes, so they are well protected against spellcasters, but not immune.
@@Hazel-xl8in Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I desperately need to know how something other than yourself can make you drop concentration if you can't take damage.
I honestly think that Conquest makes a VERY strong case for S, its incredible in almost any setting, and another thing to keep in mind is the creatures that you’ll fight on the way to level 10, the number that are immune to frightened drops significantly which massively raises their stock, then they’re the only Paladin subclass with TWO good channel divinities. On top of that all of their abilities work very well together to make a lockdown tank, and finally pair that with a spell list that helps you out there too, with a mix of defensive and offensive spells is super clutch
another worthy note is that Conquest Channel divinity fear isn't broken on damage. Not like the useless single target one from oath of vengeance.
And most things that are immune to fear are weak to Radiant damage, sooo MORE SMITE
Playing an Oath of Conquest Paladin right now and I've realized Wrathful Smite is OP once you hit 7th level. In one action you get to deal damage and if the enemy fails the WIS save are instantly rendered immobile, guaranteed to take psychic damage, and then has to decide whether to spend their next action to try the saving throw again or attack with disadvantage and further psychic damage on subsequent turns.
I agree. I'm starting a campaign Wednesday with a fire genasi paladin and I'm super excited to get to level 3 and take the oath of conquest. It's a Midgard setting so I figured it made sense.
I played a blue dragonborn conquest paladin awhile ago and let me tell you as soon as you hit level 7 it was stupidly powerful. In one fight we were fighting a large group of enemies and I managed to frighten most of them. My dm over the course of the fight rolled 46 times to break free from fear and didn't succeed once. He was very mad(I also got adamantine armor so that didn't help.
Oath of Glory Paladin multi classed with College of Glamor bard becomes Don Quixote. Just saying.
Only if none of your skills are above 10
I play this character and i can assure that.
Saving it for later
Except you never play Oath of Glory. It just sucks. I don't care what they say in the video, Oath of Glory is more like the Oath of Patheticness. The spell list might be good, but most of that stuff is not unique. Haste is on the Oath of Vengeance spell list, and most of the rest of it is either just middling or recycled from various other oath lists. The channel divinity options are PISS POOR, the Aura of Mediocrity is PISS POOR, Glorious Defense is really the only good thing about the subclass, and the final form transformation is decent, but it's really subpar compared to the other classes. I play a paladin to get up in people's faces and DEUS VULT them out of existence. If I were to play into the style of play that the Oath of Glory paladin offers, I would be a worse paladin. Especially that aura. If you were to try to maximize usage of that aura, then you are straight up worse.
How quixotic! 😏
Out of all the subclasses, Charisma builds are favored over strength when choosing Conquest, even moreso than Redemption. That's why spiritual weapon is such an important spell for them. I played one with only 16 strength up to level 15 and between Hold Person, Fear, channel divinity and +5 protection aura, the benefits it gave to the other martials while protecting the squishy casters greatly outweighed my personal reduced damage output. If you want to play a paladin without maxing charisma, then conquest isn't the oath you're looking for.
Just started a campaign at lvl 1 and im going Conquest. Our DM gave us a free feat and I took resilient (con). Unsure on what fighting style to pick. Leaning Defense but I also like Dueling and Interception.
Did you have any feats? What was your fighting style?
@@ericmata3728 After maxing CHA I chose resilient CON at level 12 because the redemption pally in my party already had Sentinel. Sentinel isn't as important to conquest pallys because of the fear aura, but it is potent if you're going against fear immune enemies. As for fighting styles, Defense is great if you're going to use a reach weapon to offset the lack of shield, and it allows you to whack enemies that are 10ft away that are frozen in place thanks to the 7th level aura. Otherwise if you're going sword and board, choose Dueling if you want more damage, or Protection/Interception if you want to cover your teammates.
If Tasha's martial versatility is allowed, you could start with a fighting style for sword and board and then switch to Defense + a reach weapon later when you get the aura.
@@ericmata3728 My DM let me take the menacing UA Skill Feat to increase my CHA by one, get expertise in intimidation, and be able to frighten an enemy in combat.
Completely agree, I kinda of assumed they would undervalue it a bit when they said the would assume the paladins charisma probably wouldn't have higher than a 13 or 14 score. I wish they had been a bit more open to a different build to fit the class.
@@ericmata3728 There's a great build guide and discussion thread for Conquest Paladins on the Giantitp forums, just google "Wall of Fear Conquest Paladins". I'm "malisteen" on those boards, feel free to ask me any questins. In general a Conqueror is building as a sort of hybrid control/support/tank with the usual paladin single target damage gimmick as a fallback when enemies are immune to frighten and/or have strong wisdom saves. Once you have your aura, you can generally rely on frighten effects to keep enemies in line, so Defense is probably the best style.
That said, interception is still quite good for tanking before level 7 and when enemies can't or won't frighten, and dueling can help prop up damage a bit when you're otherwise letting it take a back seat - particularly if you opt for a whip as your primary weapon choice. Blessed Warrior is also well worth considering if nobody else in your party has access to guidance, particularly if you aren't planning to multiclass to pick up a ranged cantrip option otherwise. Post Tasha's there really are several good combat style options for Conquerors, so it's nice to have more potential build variety there.
In terms of Feats & ASIs, you want to max out your charisma, and sooner rather than later. Beyond that, you really need to shore up your concentration saves with either resilient or war caster. The latter is way better if you're multiclassing into warlock or sorcerer at any point, otherwise the former's generally the way to go. After that... you can shore up your strength, and probably should if you haven't dipped hexblade or found some strength fixing gauntlets or belts yet. Otherwise, Sentinel is a big help tanking frighten-proof foes, Alert is a huge boost to initiatives and avoiding surprise (there's a big big difference between locking down enemies in your aura before or after they've had a chance to swarm your charges), Inspiring Leader is a massive boon to the party's overall daily HP reserves, Fey Touched is probably the best feat in the game if you happen to find yourself with an odd charisma in need of rounding out (at least, it is if your DM doesn't let you use Menacing from the long abandoned skill feats UA), and Lucky is just an excellent feat that makes any character better at everything. Pick from that pile when filling out open ASIs and you'll do fine.
Oath of conquest paladins make for a phenomenal bbeg, especially if you're going up against an entire clergy of them. The Oath of conquest also makes for an amazing backstory for an oath of redemption paladin.
I'm actually looking at one of these as an antagonist in my new campaign *evil gm laughter*
My Conquest Paladin is a Warforged that spent so long in stasis after the Great War that he was desperate for orders and purpose. So now he's overzealous in completing any given tasks - "defeat those enemies" becomes "tear them asunder" in his head.
That's a REALLY cool idea, ngl-
Oath of Glory is a perfect subclass for "this is Sparta" pallie. Kick people off the ledges, be athletic and fast, defend a person next to you, blind enemies with your glorious abs.
I agree. Glory excels when you are going for Shove or Grapple combat options that rely on Athletics. Peerless Athlete really makes the Shield Master feat entertaining.
"Paladins don't usually have a Charisma mod higher than +2 or +3." Me: *Laughs in +6 on my Redemption paladin*
How did you get +6?
@@hammdogporkington3058 22 charisma from a Tome of Leadership and Influence when I had a base charisma of 20
The look on Kelly's face when they introduce the Oath of Redemption. I just want to bottle it and keep it forever. I love how much back and forth there was between you two for nearly every sub class. (And I really appreciate that Monty barely cut Kelly off when he spoke in this video. ) As usual, phenomenal content. Thanks for the time and effort 😍🤩
Love the paladin class! Thank you guys so much! Hope everyone is having a great day!
You’re one of my favorite races! 🦞
@@Lobsterwithinternet thank you so much! They are mine too!
@sum body true! Hope you both have a good day!
Your name is redundant AF. But it made me laugh
I feel like the Oath of Conquest is being a bit underestimated here.
To address the point of it being a bit MAD, I would recommend moving some points from strength to charisma, since you're more of a controller than a damage dealer. This will make your save DC more of a hurdle to overcome, and you can supplement your lacking damage with Spiritual Weapon, which will actually grow stronger from your higher CHA.
Secondly, while fear is resisted decently often, it is *crippling* in situations where it isn't being resisted. A great example is Wrathful Smite on a large boss enemy like a dragon (which surprisingly don't have immunity to fear). Since its requirement to break the fear is a check as an action instead of a save, that means the enemy has disadvantage on breaking frightened _because of the effects of being frightened._ At best, the dragon has disadvantage on all attacks and is completely immobilized by your aura, at worst, it wastes an entire round breaking free.
And thats not accounting for the combination of fear + prone, which is permanent in your aura since it reduces your enemies' speed to 0 and thus they can't get back up from prone. Combine this with a fear effect that requires them to Dash or Dodge (neither of which work with 0 speed either btw) from the Fear spell or a Mace of Terror, and you can reduce an entire encounter to cowards groveling in fear at your feet, literally unable to move or act in any way, all while your entire party gets advantage on melee attacks against them. Using this method, I have literally routed entire armies single-handedly with fear + Destructive Wave.
I never noticed that wrathful smite was an ability check before. I guess I just assumed saving throw. That spell just got a huge boost in the way I view it. Thank you.
Edit: I just checked and the fear spell doesn't require them to dash or dodge. It requires them to dash unless there is nowhere to go.
@@asherandai1000 I feel like that must’ve been a typo or something for that spell lol. AFAIK it’s one of the only spells that requires a check to resist after the initial saving throw, as opposed to just more saving throws. And since, like OP said fear imposes disadvantage on ability checks, they’re likely never going to break free from that effect as long as your DC is relatively high. I think the Conquest Paladin is similar to Redemption Paladin in the sense that you’ll benefit a lot more from focusing on your CHA score as opposed to your STR score
@@yooooo8600 There are other spells that require checks after the initial saving throw, web springs to mind as one.
Also something I've noticed is that fear effects often seem to work in a slightly different ways depending on the source. The Fear spell for example forces creatures to use their action as a Dash, while most other fear effects don't do that. Some fear effects require that they have to be out of line of sight and/or over 60ft away before they can attempt to save against the fear (after the initial failed save), others they can save against at any time. Some force them to run away, others don't require them to run away beyond the frightened condition restriction of "can't move closer". There's even one or two somewhere that disappear the moment they take damage... unless those got changed in an update? I can't find them anymore, but I know I've seen them.
Anyway, point is I really don't see the problem in Wrathful Smite working the way it does. It's not unique in needing checks over saves, and it only affects one enemy so it's definitely not overpowered. They can still attack back, albeit at disadvantage, so they aren't totally powerless. Even if they can't pass their check they can still break your concentration. Frankly the difficulty of passing the check is the only thing that makes the spell not total garbage.
I agree that Oath of Conquest is underrated, it should be S tier as far as I can see it. Where Vengeance Pal is strength based damage dealer, Conquest is your social Paladin be it from enemies cowering in fear. Charisma is primarily followed by Strength, my Paladin now lvl 9, started with 16/16 str/chr but went 16/18 at 4th the 18/18 at 8th. Sword and board style. I regret taking str at 8th because I should have gone Chr 20. Spiritual weapon, fear, shove, so many greatcombos for control. Also party face based on intimidation rather than being nice lends to so many role-playing opportunities.
@@asherandai1000 The "dash or dodge" wording was specifically referring to the effects of the Mace of Terror, which does have a caviat that they can take the dodge action if they're unable to run away from you. I was just sort of combining the effects of Fear and the MoT for brevity's sake. Regardless, the end result is the same, since both the Dash and Dodge actions have no effect if your speed is reduced to 0.
Huh, thanks dudes, changed my mind about Redemption pallys! I’m thinking of running one instead of an Oath of the Ancients for a more defensive playstyle.
My 1st 5e character was a Redemption Pally, provided your DM is okay with you finding non-violent solutions it can be really powerful, if they only give you the option to kill every enemy it's still good but loses it's most awesome stuff.
The Redemption Pally is great in instances where you need a face because his non-combat lvl3 skill is Savage.
A +5 is better than doubling proficiency in most cases (only loses at really high lvl when proficiency becomes +6) and you can get expertise with some multiclasses / feats to boost it up to really insane lvls.
Ok, you lose that one spell that every Bard takes and make your tests a 15 ir higher. But you'll be better untill the 8th lvl spells gets online wich is a huge part of your character's life.
@@albertonishiyama1980 I gave my variant human redemption the prodigy feat with expertise in persuasion. Prioritizing charisma I have +15 persuasion when I use the channel divinity at level 6. And it lasts for 10 minutes! It's perfect for those moments when you just need to diplomat through something.
Most Canadian thing I've heard today: "If your party is taking damage you can say, 'You're taking it too, bud."
The thing I like about the conquest paladin is how it fits into the "I am the one who will rule" kinda fantasy by being able to single out the opposing leader, wrathful smite (which requires a CHECK to break which they now have disadvantage on) them and they fear the minions and you make their leader a cowering pleb. If you manage to shove them prone as well then they have no choice but to break the fear or cower at your feet ( 0 ft movement in aura means no standing up)
Them: "Paladins usually have only a 2 or 3 to their Charisma Mod, and you don't see much higher."
Me, always putting my second highest in Charisma for Paladin no matter if I multiclass or not: "... I have every single Lay on Hands in existence. "
Seconded. Cha and Str hit 20 ASAP for me, and Con mops up any spares/takes an attunement item if necessary. Otherwise I'll slap on some high AC and tank shit but not getting hit instead.
...But Lay On Hands varies with level, not Charisma modifier.
@@haydenstockwell252 lay on hands multiplies your level by your charisma modifier. So it relies on both.
Also it was a joke.
I'm guessing the Dungeon Dudes are going by Standard Array and Point Buy, both of which are just awful in general. If they are, that would make sense. Otherwise... no, most Paladins I've seen have that as their second highest stat usually.
@@onicalypso1684 it is your level x5. Cha mod doesn't effect it
As a Oath of Glory lover I will put my two cents out there:
- I love the fact that the Paladin, who is already absurdly good in combat, has something to do in a non combat environment. In my experience, as most campaigns I like to play in and master at are skill and roleplay heavy, it just sucks when the Oath of Vengance paladin tries to roleplay their anger and hate or the Oath of Conquest tries to show off their utilitarism and they just suck at social or skill challenges because all they do is kill good. The Oath of Glory (or as we have dubbed it in my table, the Chadladin) always can show off their athletic and charismatic might.
- You are playing wrong the Glory paladin if you are always spreading out your temp hit points among a crowd. You need to remember from the Chadladin that the key playstyle is "I am awesome and maybe I will make you awesome too". The Oath of Glory will not share their temp hit points. They habe the choice to do so, but what they mostly will be doing is run in with their increased speed and haste on, smite and gain that buffer shield of temp hit points, and from there they will be hitting and refusing to miss and sometimes giving a hand to the rest of the party
In short, I fucking love the Oath of Glory Paladin for a single reason, it is a different kind of Paladin. It is a Paladin that takes advantage of skill challenges and has a ton more mobility than even the Vengance paladin. It is a selfish Paladin who doesn't help the party until it is required, but has the option to do so. In short, it a Chad asshole sportsperson who will strike you in the head with the might of its own amazingness
I god damn well agree!! Absolutely adore oath of glory paladin!!
I just recently made an oath of glory paladin coz my party seems to need a tank/healer. Seeing this vid made me slightly regret i chose it because how they rated it, but seeing your comment made my conviction stronger to be proud of choosing this sub class. And so, im grateful for your input :)
Yo, are you forgetting Armor of Agathys for the Conquest Spell List? It's BONKERS as a frontliner.
Eh, still think it’s more useful for a Hexblade. Armor of Agathys is one of those spells that’s only so-so at low levels but is pretty amazing when upcast. If you cast it at 3rd level, that’s only 15 temp HP, and as a frontliner it’s very likely that an enemy will do 15 damage or more on one attack
Yeah, you both have a great point. Armor Of Agathys IS amazing for a frontliner, but most frontliners aren't full casters and as such don't have high level spell slots to upcast it to, which mitigates it's use. I actually think it might be best on a caster; Con as your second highest stat, hold the front lines alongside the dedicated tanks. Bonus points if you have two casters working together on it; the frontliner concentrating on Armor of Agathys while someone else casts Stoneskin or another similar spell on them.
AoA is more a Hexblade or Bladelock thing, with their automatic upcast and short rest spellslots. The opportunity cost for using it as a Paladin is a lot higher, due to long rest spell slots, no automatic upcasting and that it has to compete with Smite.
Always nice to see a Dungeon Dudes video upload right as I am doing prep.
I love watching how these videos evolve over the series. Each video is better than the last, better constructed, more useful as a tool to show new players and has more nuanced takes and discussion. Absolutely loving the series guys!
Since the other videos were made specifically without Tasha's Cauldron, I was hoping all the rest would also not have anything with tasha in it. Then make a follow up video for either all classes at once or one video per class with just Tasha classes and comparing them to the original video. I hope what I said made sense lol
I agree, that would be the best way to structure the remaining videos.
Oath of Glory is originally from Mythic Odysseys of Theros. They left out Oath of the Watchers which is a Tasha's specific subclass
This is our plan. The only exception is with the Ranger, we are including the revised beast master right away, but all the new subclasses we will review in subsequent videos once we’ve had a chance to play some of them or run games for some of them.
@@DungeonDudes that makes sense, the changes to beast master make it playable, easily move it from D to A, so for such a big shift that makes sense.
@@DungeonDudes, my one difference of opinion with your list is that the oath of glory's inspiring smite and aura of alacrity alone make it a mid A tier. Other than that, I whole-heartedly agree with your list, as you bring up great points about each sub-class. I have had 2 instances where being an oath of glory paladin has benefited my party. I was able to keep our sorcerer alive because I used my inspiring smite to give him about 15 temp. hp at level 3, and when I was able to run down fleeing enemies by either bodying them with a guiding bolt or just straight-up running them down with 40 movement speed. The main reason that I like oath of glory is because I love to play a paladin that aggressively rushes into combat, and can give both temp hit points to both himself and/or allies, making himself even tankier with a higher amount of hit points. Another reason is that I really only play paladins with a charisma of fourteen, as I pick variant human, with 16 str., con., 14 char., and 10 dex. This means that my spell save is rather pitiful, and the oath of conquest isn't dependent on charisma for its key features. I also value my constitution over everything else. In my opinion, temporarily raising my hit points in combat as a bonus action is just too good to pass up, as well as having a ranged spell attack and 10 more movement speed allows me to more easily damage far away enemies.
I played an Oath of Conquest Pladin once. Together with a Forge Domain Cleric/Fighter, we held the line against against a demonic incursion. The other guy didn't survive that fight, so we gave him a heroes funeral.
Those two videos made me want to play a Vengeance Paladin using a little bit of the religious stuff borrowed from Warhammer 40k (Catechism of hate as my vow of enmity ;) )
And a warlock multiclass solves another issue for Paladins: Spell slots. Having 1-2 spellslots that come back on a short rest rather than a long rest allows you to smite with much more impunity over running out of gas. And you get access to a nice ranged option on top of that.
Likes and comments to pay tribute to the algorithm.
I played a conquest paladin and absolutely loved him. Yeah a lot of stuff is immune to fear but anything that isnt just got completely locked down.
My groups Conquest Zariel Tiefling Pali was lucky enough to get her hands on a Belt of Fire Giants Strength around Lv.7, so she's been able to dump a ton of points into CHA without sacrificing her STR at all. Let me tell you, the +5 to saving throws has been a major help to my group.
@@curnott6051 That's just getting a level 15-20 item at level 7. You could have been a mage with a broadsword got that item and be contributing to a party.
@@ruukinen Yeah, but it's still more effective on a Pali.
The group beat a rather difficult boss for our level and got 1 very rare item, I won't deny it was a really good drop, our DM later admitted to regretting that he give it to her as it completely broke the character, but, hey, it's what he rolled for the Magic Table H drop, and he said he'd feel dirty taking it away.
@@curnott6051 Yeah but your anecdote doesn't make sense in this context since you are breaking the game balance anyway by giving a character access to items that demigods should have only heard about.
@@ruukinen First if all, I said "lucky enough to get", meaning I knew this was an exceptional case and not the norm.
Second, "only demi-gods should know about?" I feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. It was a VR Belt of Fire Giants Strength, not a Legendary Holy Avenger or Vorpal Sword or something. While definitely a hard to come by item, it's hardly an Artifact.
Real quick thing about the Oath of Glory. The ability to add 10ft to your jumps is very good for covering ground. If you find yourself in combat in a town, having a high jump of 18ft means you can usually jump onto a building as a quick example.
Thank you for finally saying aloud "Not everyone wants to play a polearm master." Making every single melee character in all of DnD 5e a freakin' polearm master just makes the game feel bland and repetitive.
Yeah played an oath of conquest paladin and it is amazing. Maxed out my charisma with a 16 and 16 in str and con. She was an absolute beast. Can shut down entire fights with one ability. Very surprised how hard Monty slept on the sub class.
The amount of support that my Oath of Conquest paladin offered our party far outweighed the reduced damage output compared to Vengeance. I could fear enemies for battlefield control, restrict movement so they could not reach our casters, and knock them prone for advantage on attacks- that my melee party members could join in on.
Kelly’s point on not taking polearm master is the biggest advantage I took playing my paladin. That bonus action spiritual weapon maintained constant damage, and allowed me to divide my attention to support with my aura.
Also sword and board is cooler :P
Spirit Guardians + Challenge = "You can't run away from his damage!" Lol
"I don't think you're ready for this jelly"
Oath of Glory channel divinity are combat based in a wrestling or grappling perspective. I agree with you but the view of a paladin armwrestling a giant is cool.
Heracles!!!
I now have the image of Paladin with Tavern Brawler who just smites everything with his fists and I love it.
My dm actually let me make yuan-ti glory paladin, I'm 100% gonna have her suplex something huge
Also, adding 10 feet to your vertical jumps is massive for maneuvering the battlefield. It makes it so you just jump up 15ft tall walls without any checks with only a 14 STR. It's basically the jump spell, that stacks with the jump spell.
My best character ever:
Stanford "Big Stan" Johnson. Half-Orc Ex-University Football Champion, now University Coach.
Kelly, I think you should change your name to always be Kelly "Conquest" McLaughlin. It has an excellent ring to it! Also, thank you Dudes for these class ranking videos. It's awesome to have additional thoughts and observations on the classes and subclasses.
Kelly is an Oath of the Mustache Paladin.
He could be a pro wrestler with that name!
Oath of Redemption is my favorite subclass. Persuasion skill that can rival a bard, and a deadly one time reaction you can use against an enemy.
"What disappoints people about the oath of redemption?"
Tbh, the answer is pretty clear to me. The people low rating it are the munchkins that just wanna hit people in glorious combat, thing that the best way to win is to just kill everything fast and don't think that a supportive/control play style is any good.
Personally it’s the fact it doesn’t seem to give anything to the party. Sure, my ally doesn’t take that damage, but the party still did and we still need to expend the same amount of time/resources to heal it up
Yes, but shifting the damage to a tank paladin from the squishy wizard is super good.
@@Rj-pw7zs That just means the tank is less safe being where the tank ought be, and because of the tank's inherent tankiness, your party just lost more effective hit points.
@@SkarmoryThePG No, it means you use it strategically to save your party when needed.
@@Rj-pw7zs Oh, fair, having the option is definitely better than not having it, but it still feels.... far less useful and beneficial than, say, an always-on resistance to damage.
I think the glory Paladin would shine if you got him grappling a lot. Peerless athlete gives him advantage on all of his grapple checks and also gives him advantage to do things like shove people down. The increased carrying capacity lets him pick people up or drag them around the battlefield. Put this on a Goliath or firbolg with their extra carrying capacity and you’ve got a character who can pick up a rhino and throw it over a cliff. He’d be able to fill the role of the monk spamming stunning strike and totally shut down your big bad guy while the rest of the party either deals with minions or sneak attacks the fella you’re grappling.
This is the exact idea I had when Theros came out.
9:30 `Basically, you can be near a target and be like "I'm going to kill you" and everybody else runs away while that person cowers in fear while you murder them - it's pretty epic.`
Yeah, that kinda made my day ... so thanks for that. 😹
Honestly thank you for validating my favorite class combination of all time, because I get plenty of flak for it
Have you seen Tulok's Nightmare build? Should be more than enough to disprove any naysayers of hexblade paladin
@@brewdaly1873 I don’t think anyone says that a Hexblade paladin is bad
Hey, so another big reason to pick Conquest Pally for their Spiritual Weapon is that sweet sweet scaling when upcast alongside Spirit Shroud that adds 1d8 to ALL your attacks to enemies within 10 feet. This combo is fantastic because once you unlock it, you basically get to add 3d8 to your turns every turn. Worried about your conquering presence spell save DC being low? Get yourself an uncommon +1 Amulet of the Devout to raise that another notch ON TOP OF getting another use out of your channel divinity per day. Now you’re cooking with oil almost every single combat without having to burn through every spell slot for smites! Other Paladins get access to Spirit Shroud, but only Conquest Pallys get Spiritual Weapon.
Conquest paladin can literally make a crowd of people around him crap themselves in fear until they die. I once turned a 20+ enemy combat encounter into a 3 enemy encounter with one of these.
*HE'S JUST STANDING THERE MENACINGLY*
Can you tell me how this was done?
I Love the oath of glory paladin, it offers something unique like the peace domain. Things that are still useful in combat but aren’t targeted at it there’s more to D&D than combat abilities.
This is my favorite video in the series so far PURELY because Monty spoke to my own opinion on the Olympics
Thank you kelly for thinking of the sword and board not just assuming it will always be a 2 handed paladin.
Great job as usual,i always love hearing your thoughts on what made you chose the ranking and while you are not often in lock step as to what is your primary reasons you often are with ranking but if not the counter points you have often swing it one way or the other without any hard choices.
11:35 "take a level of Hexblade and problem solved." gee, I wonder what's gonna be S tier for the Warlock sucblasses.
Hexblade is really good, probably the best Warlock option for pure damage. That being said, it’s kind of boring. I’ve never seen someone play a hexblade without entirely re-flavoring the subclass.
Hexblades are to D&D like Vergil is to Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. So overpowered that using it is almost a requirement.
Hexblades get S for sure. You will kiss your party off as soon as you hit level 3 and can cast darkness though
New videos two days in a row. You are amazing
I’ve been waiting for this part just to hear what you guys think about the Oath of Conquest.
I think you're missing the part where you can give all the oath of glory temp hp to one person (yourself)
A tier just for that.
That's real
It still sucks.
I'm proud to say I was one of the first 40k subscribers and now you guys are near a quarter mil!!! Holy crap you guys have blown up
Would like to point out a correction for the Conquest Paladin capstone: After the feature is activated, you only gain resistance to all damage, *not* immunity.
It's still really good, especially if combined with Heavy Armor Master for a little bit of extra damage reduction and Armor of Agathys for a few extra hit points
I cannot overstate how long I've been waiting for this specific episode, thank you
Oath of Redemption is right up the alley for a paladin of Eilistraee.
Peerless Athlete is tailor-made for grappling. It gives you advantage on grapple checks (athletics), it doubles your carry limit (meaning you can drag around/lift heavy enemies), and doubles your jump distance (which is one of the primary ways grapplers deal damage -- that is, grapple, then jump in the air with your target and dropping them for falling damage). Peerless Athlete pumps this build pretty significantly.
Guys, you forgot about the best subclass. It's the one Kelly has taken up, the Oath of the Mustache!
I think that's called the Oath of Glory, no?
@@chrisw3024 The Oath of the Dudes?
I personally had a lot of fun playing an Oath of the Crown paladin earlier this year. I actually made a dex-based, lightfoot halfling based on Judy Hopps who was part of the Knights of Tyr and I roleplayed her as close to a police officer as possible in the setting (Avernus FYI).
When I got Spirit Guardians, my DM allowed me to have them take the form of sentient suits of SWAT armour; now THAT was a fun session.
7:51 I laughed out loud at Kelly's little glance to camera, like "yeah yeah, polearm master again"😂
I played a Swashbuckler/Oath of Conquest multiclass in an evil campaign for 20 levels and I ended up being the most unorthodox tank, standing toe to toe with just about anything with a profoundly irritating level of survivability and damage mitigation. Didn't deal a ton of damage, until I crit that is...
I'm curious as to what order you took your levels in - did you grab all of one and then the other or did you split it up? What was the final breakdown?
@@thetallwarden I actually started as Battlemaster/Swashbuckler (5/5) but at level 10 I switched to Paladin. Went Paladin to 7 to get the aura, then broke roughly even. Finished at Swashbuckler 11/Conquest 9.
Dungeon Dudes videos have made finals week much more bearable
I’d just started a little shepherd who has lost his sheep and has sworn an oath of vengeance to find the thief who stole them! I love your videos because they get me excited to play classes and subclasses I would have otherwise never given a second look!
It will always be satisfying to know that I was naturally drawn to the paladin just because of it's flavor and then found out it was so good because god damn when something entices me with flavor it normally bites me in the ass later. As it stands though, for D&D, my favorite is actually good for a change.
You really touched on something when you talked about the hexadin. I would love a bunch of really in-depth guide to multiclassing every class. Like Paladin to other martial, paladin to warlock, paladin to bard, paladin to other.... would be great to spark discussions on it
I'm so excited for rogue though. It feels like a long time coming. Praise that OP swashbucklerrrrrr
I’m so happy one of my favorite subclasses finally gets some love!
Good list and good video. I am surprised you also didn't mention the multi-class with a Divine Soul Sorcerer to earn all those extra spell slots for divine smite.
A conquest paladin shines with high carisma and mid strenght, playing as a tank/battlefield contoler, not as a pure dps. You are not there to bring down the boss, but to control every single creep that's around. And if you ever get your hands on a belt of gianmt strength, voilà.
Man, nothing from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide looks good. I'd love to see all of it get reworked and hopefully salvaged.
Unfortunately a lot of people don't really see the value in increased jump height, but it's actually really helpful for a melee-oriented character to hit or especially grapple flying enemies, especially in an indoor battle or against melee or short-ranged flying enemies.
I love the lore and concept for Oath of the Crown, but I am really disappointed by its abilities.
Dude I know it’s not even mid it just bad
As a DM my favorite thing about these videos is that they help me build encounters around my wierd subclass players (like having lots of athletics challenges for my Satyr Glory Paladin who can jump like 40 feet)
So the Oath of Glory almost makes it to A tier if the campaign is dungeon heavy, where you're regularly in close quarters with both your companions and your enemies.
I think it's also forgotten that this subclass is released with the Theros campaign. Where athleticism etc is highly esteemed and useful in the Iroan Games! I think it definitely has more RP value than combat value..
I’ve been playing an Oath of Redemption Paladin/Divine Soul Sorcerer multiclass. It has been awesome. I get Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, can uses sorcerer slots to Smite, and as they mentioned it really works with having a higher Charisma than Strength.
Oath of Glory Channel Divinity: Take the shield master feat, declare attack action, start with bonus action shove, shove to the ground with advantage, take your two attacks at advantage because you are within 5 feat of a prone target fun way to go crit fishing
Doesn't work that way. Sage Advice put out that the bonus action takes place after the attack action with regards to shield master
I would like to share a few thoughts based on my experience with Conquest (campaign) and Glory (one-shot). My favorite thing about conquest is that this subclass changes dramatically how you play a paladin. More than being good or bad, it gives a unique experience.
As a S&B conquest paladin I suggest increasing charisma to 20 (or 18) first and keep CON and STR at 16 (or 18) till level 11 (I took half-elf). I didn't regret at all. It was amazing to have high CON saves to keep concentration of spells after level 6 and I don't remember failing many saves. As a tank, DM threw everything he had on me, multiple attackers, WIS and CON save spells, grapplers, etc. Fear effects compensate the lack of Sentinel (as you are leveling up Attributes). As part of damage comes via spiritual weapon, "low" STR was not that bad. And I loved upcasting armor of agathys while on my steed. That being said, frightened immunity is a thing. Keep always a halberd or a Maul when you need to go full offense and fear is not an option. Between bestow curse, smiting, armor of agathys, +10 to hit, I never felt useless. It's a S tier in certain campaigns and can go down to A or B depending on the campaign (or game session). I recommend for small parties that do not have good BF control. It does a bit of everything, ok damage, awesome survivability, and it still can smite if necessary.
Oath of glory: it was better than I thought, but not fantastic. What I really liked as a goliath paladin was to have the permission from my DM to throw medium sized enemies as I was considered 2 sizes larger. It was good to have some ranged options, but not incredible. The extra mobility was actually nice. I overlooked how haste + extra movement was good to overcome certain challenges. Solid B for me.
If I play a tankish paladin again, I am really choosing Redemption. It seems incredible, but I've never seen in action.
I guess my level 8 Paladin with a +4 in Charisma is beefed up...?
For the most part I can agree with you ranking. I do wish to state that The Oath of Glory's aura is not intended for your team mates, it's for your mount. Oath of Glory is about just that "Your" glory. when it eventually does extend to 10 ft. it is so you can lead the charge and breach the line. Once again it's you leading the charge breaching the line and they could never have done that with out you. All that is not to say it earns a higher rank just wanted to put it out there so it's easier for others to see how to lean into the theme of the subclass.
In my opinion, the oath of redemption isn’t about pacifism. It’s about doing what you can to convince your enemies not to fight (aka trying to redeem them through seeing the error of their ways), but if they still choose to fight, you give them the consequences
Really great video. I like Oath of Glory a lot and it seems perfect for a character who is an explorer type in a campaign with a lot of tomb raider and wilderness adventures. It's especially potent if you choose a race that already has Powerful Build because then you can really double down on feats of strength like a Hercules.
"Cooooooool Duck" at the top of the screen
Oath of Glory's aura is cool if you acknowledge ONE small detail... MOUNTS!
You give extra speed to your mount which can be huge.
Also... If there are campaigns created around any kind of competition of physical prowess... Like a knight tournament! The subclass becomes A tier totally.
Can't wait for the Paladin's sad shadow, Rangers.
Sword and board Oath of Conquest with Hexblade warlock is literally insane. Max Cha, get enough Str for plate.
Then you have access to warlock spells like shield (I can’t say how many times my DM would ask “does a 24 hit”, and I’d just pop shield and be practically invulnerable for a round). You can get access to cool warlock cantrips like lightening lure and booming blade for even more battlefield control. Expeditious retreat might be a bit overkill, but it will get you wherever you need to be in 1 turn.
Go for a feat like shield master if you want to keep your enemies prone or add shield AC to certain spell saves, or war caster to use booming blade as an opportunity attack and maintain concentration. Aura gives +5 to all saves for everyone near you. Spiritual weapon to add bonus action damage to whoever you’re engaged with, or attack at a distance.
And that’s not even taking into account the channel divinity and conquest aura, or the hexblade’s curse that lets you stack dmg on every hit and crit on a 19, and how it all stacks together with smite.
It’s such an amazing tank and battlefield control class, and it might not have the highest DPS, but you’ll still be doing A-tier damage in every fight (and sometimes S-tier damage). And at the same time, you’re adding survivability and giving so many other benefits to your party.
Monty with that Alfalfa impersonation
Perfect timing! I'm going to be starting a campaign as a paladin in a few days so this is great!
Also since hexblade multiclass is so popular, it may be a worth while to make a tier list specifically of these classes mixed with warlock, when is it best to start taking levels in warlock for maximum output, etc
With Conquest, don't forget that if you are a sword and board variant, you can use Shield Master to knock enemies prone. If their speed is reduced to 0 due to a fear effect, they stay prone. Just another added little bit of control and a great way to give advantage to your melee allies.
Wouldn't make it S tier, but still a facet that not many people are aware of.
I think conquest pally would be an S tier for me. Everything up to level 20 is good to excellent, a tier, but I'd bump it up to s tier for the rediculous power of invincible conqueror even compared to other paladin capstone. Also, the polearm master vs spiritual weapon argument is in favour of spiritual weapon for conquest cause you're locking people into melee with you so you probably want the ac of a shield.
Also I've played a charisma max conquest pally and even with a slightly subpar strength score my save effects and spells came in solid for allowing me to stand in the middle of the enemy and forcing them to fight me.
I like when you said that peerless athlete is one of the few non-combat focused paladin abilities, when one time, I saw one of them litterall use this to jump high enogh to beat a dragon out of the sky.
Been running oath of glory for a little while now, peerless athlete comes up SOOOO often in and out of combat!!! i highly recommend it :)
These guys are probably the most polite d&d content creators ever
I’m personally enjoying a rogue/paladin oath of the crown.
I love that you address the multi stat problem of the paladin. The Barbarian has the same problem. But in contrast to the Barbarian you can solve the issue of the low con with taking the tough Feat wich is basically 4 points in con. And yeah I know that you then have a smaller con saves but thats boosted by your Aura.
And imo boosting your aura is much more useful than boosting your strength score (Gauntlets of Ogre Power are uncommon after all).
I have a Paladin in my group with 20 Charisma its a nightmare to let them roll saves its so rare that they fail with the +5 bonus.
And now think about how frustrating it must be to play a Solarian in Starfinder its like playing a Paladin but without heavy Armor proficiency so you need dex on top of it its a nightmare.
Thank you guys for finally NOT considering polearm master for once
Thank you for making these videos! I just started a campaign with one of my players as a first time paladin and he found the last one real useful, happy to see the second part!