I’m so happy that someone FINALLY said it! Finally someone has said that if Arizona would have LISTENED to Charles Vallow or would have treated his death seriously those beautiful babies would still be alive. The federal government need to look into the Florida police and the District Attorney’s office and there should be some consequences to all parties that stood back and did NOTHING.
But they need to look into Florida, as well, BECAUSE..Of Shanna Gardner getting rid of her EX, Jared Bridegan, IN FRONT, of his TWO YEAR OLD DAUGHTER! EVIL WOMEN! Both of them!
Arizona police did listen. The unfortunate reality, especially with family law cases, is that it is difficult to prevent a crime from happening that has not happened yet.
That poor, dear man. Charles hit Alex with a bat? Charles played baseball. A hit on the head that was barely a scratch? No. Either Tylee bopped him (since she came in with the bat), or Lori did it to justify the shooting. She continues to demand attention. Meanwhile, 2 of her children and her husband are dead. Any grief? Any sadness? Nope.
Cops did take Tylee & witnesses in to question. More than they'd do in our state! Not like Cops in AZ didnt have a lot on their plate!! illegal begats more illegals in AZ USA & cops were quitting then! Not stepping up.
The great step that Charles Vallow took heading towards divorce was to change the beneficiary of the life insurance policy from Lori to his sister Kay.
PD really messed up when Charles was killed! How did they not pick up on the fact that something was really wrong, when Lori was laughing and giggling on the body cam, right after Charles was shot! She also had a pool party later that day! What a missed opportunity! imo
You don’t think cops are that dumb to be outsmarted by her do you? Is that what you think? That they didnt know? I know for a fact she slept with several of the police individually seducing them with sex. Does that make more sense now or do you still think cops are just dumb ?
Because many people are trained to believe the woman - and if a guy says he’s a victim- view him suspiciously because he could be using the system to further abuse the woman. I’m just angry that Charles didn’t have other people who knew Lori standing with him when he approached police. ( not just standing there like that Bishop who played down the danger and insanity Lori was showing. They didn’t even seem concerned the kids were having contact with a lunatic) I’ve experienced this first hand. Being a female the police weren’t great but they did believe me. ( they just loath dealing with domestics) But when a male friend of mine was getting threats- assaulted at access changeovers- 100 texts a day- he went into a police station to report it and was told to “ Suck it up. Be a man. Just don’t read the texts” But he had to. Because among the 100 texts there may be one saying “ you need to pick up the kids and take them to their dentist appointment” So I went into a police station with him and asked to speak to someone who understood domestic violence - and I stood right there as a witness to back him up. Same officer who told him to “suck it up” seemed suddenly like he had to treat my friend more fairly. I encourage anyone - male or female- to take a friend or support person if you need to report things. And if you have a friend in this position? If you are in a place where it’s safe to- back your friend and advocate for them. They often feel stupid and blames themselves - I think if Charles had one of loris friends or family saying “ he’s not exaggerating. He and the kids are in danger! She tried to kill her last husband!” MAYBE police would have looked a little closer and seen if there was anything she had done that they could detain her and get her a proper 48 hour assessment done.
I’m so glad you’re continuing to follow Charles Vallow’s case. His death stunned me and I don’t know why. Perhaps it is because he seemed so smart and directed - a man who had everything, and everything to give. Thank you for remembering him - he deserves it.
You're so right. Charles belongs here, with the people who love him. What a huge loss it is, for him not to be here. For what? So two narcissistic maniacs could dance on the beach and act out their messianic cosplay? This court performance will be her middle finger to the world. To everyone who didn't buy into what she wanted to sell, including her own son. This will not be lost on Colby, which is unbelievably sad.
Retired Atty here. It is a real pain in the backside trying a case against a civilian (non-attorney) who is representing themselves. Competency to cooperate with your attorney is one thing, competency to represent yourself in a murder trial is a totally different. I suspect that the judge and the state would much prefer to try this case if she is represented by counsel. If she represents hereslf it will be a real clown show. She may think she got bad representation in the Idaho trial and that may be why she wants to represent herself (because she still thinks she is innocent).
“Not to my understanding.” What was the phrase she used constantly during her last call to Colby? Was it “in my mind?” It’s like the phrase “my truth.” Usually there’s very little truth when that statement is made.
That phrase also allows her to reframe things from the past now that they’ve been exposed. She knows how everyone else sees it, and she’s uses phrases like this to reframe history in an effort to change the perception of her actions.
Noones looked into that. She had access to his home via tylees key.ruled natural death so waz alexs but i dint think alrxs waa a natural death either. He suspected be might br offed. His wife of 3 weeksshpuld have been investigated.she was in loris cult. And 3 weeks into sharing a home he dies.i dont think it was natural nor do i thnk joseph ryans death was natural. Anyone with money or life ins waz offed. Joseph ryan, charles vslow, tammy daybell and all witnesses wirh any knowledge of shady actions lori chad did, were erased. The kids, alex, tammy daybell
Colby is such a smart, handsome young man and as a mom to 3 young men myself, I am so proud of the man he's become in spite of the horrible circumstances. In front of the whole world too. I hope and pray great things for his life and family 🙏❤️
I disagree that Lori believes that Tylee committed the crime as she stated to Colby. I think she came up with a new narrative that features herself as the virtuous victim and her own child, once again, as evil.
Of course she wants to blame everyone but herself. Tylee appears have died first, then JJ. Tylee had her jeep and if JJ had died first Tylee would have taken off to get either the police or Colby. She was also there when Charles died. She was the lose thread they felt needed to be gone. Who would have believed JJ if somehow he got to the police because he had disabilities? Tylee was the bigger threat. Lori and Chad are pure evil. She will only hurt herself if she becomes her own attorney. How could she then appeal the case by claiming ineffective counsel or that she was insane?
Lori exhibits a significant appreciation for performing on stage, having previously participated in both a game show and a beauty pageant. This current opportunity represents one of the final occasions for her to engage in such performances. She approaches this event with the understanding that winning is irrelevant; her circumstances in prison are unalterable. Therefore, this experience serves as a means for her to reclaim a sense of identity and presence in the spotlight, albeit transient in nature.
It’s truly for attention, I believe this, she loves being in the limelight. My condolences to Colby and sounds like he’s trying to move on from this tragedy. You deserve happiness Colby , wishing you the best!
I always get a kick out of it when Dr. John cackles after making a point, and his voice goes up an octave in amazement at the behavior he's distilling for us. There have been memorable such moments throughout the nightmarish years of Lori's court cases. The sad fact is we're all coming out of this much the wiser about personality disorders and criminal psychology, but to the detriment of any prior hope we had that the world might become a safer place. I guess it's better to be forewarned.
She believes she is a goddess. She just has to open her mouth, and peons will fall at her feet. She will use this moment as her pulpit, her soapbox. _If only you ALL knew THE truth, you will be converted!!_ Note my intense sarcasm..... 🙄🤦♀️
My heart breaks for Colby, he has lost everyone! And now his mom wants to have her last say to the world! The court is her theater, and she will play it up just for shits and giggles. She thinks she is smarter than everyone, and this is a big middle finger to everyone who pissed Lori off. And poor Colby has to watch and hear this shit, while trying to be a good husband and father, and a provider.
Love these episodes with Dr. John!! His insights are a unique and infinitely valuable contribution to truly understanding the criminal mind. Thank you again 😊
Lauren& Dr.John, you guys are such professionals! I’m hooked - keep it going, SO AWESOME! One more thing, when the story FIRST broke out? I told my BFF, those children are dead, there was NO question in my mind once they showed her pic - ugh My BFF said, “you really think so? I said LOOK at her, she’s evil!
*This might sound harsh, but I'd like to see Colby, Kay and Larry take Gilbert/Chandler PD to court* for huge failure to take this situation seriously. It's very likely they'd still have Tylee, JJ (and even, Tammy) had the AZ PD *done their job!* This cannot happen again, and sometimes LAWSUITS are the ONLY WAY to AFFECT REAL CHANGE.
I agree w/ you! I think they all might still be alive if they’d treated Alex Cox as the killer he was. He had a violent history, I don’t understand how he was ever allowed to own a gun again after he attacked her previous ex-husband back in the mid-2000s. They just didn’t do their homework at all and believed that Lori was a victim. 😡
Not harsh at all! I 100% agree! Had they listened to him or took his death seriously, things would be different. He might still be alive … for sure the kids and Tammy would still be alive! The police departments and the District Attorney’s office should be under investigation at minimum. Kay, Larry and Colby should go after all of them and those detectives should lose their jobs.
Lori quite a devious character. If you have not watched the police interviews after Charles Vallow was killed, I highly recommend. HTC playlist includes 250+ in main folder.
She seriously thinks it wasnt her fault and that everyone is crazy except her, like really, she thinks she is some chosen Goddess, she thought her kids were zombies, picks Chad???right there proves she is not all there.
Dr John my feelings exactly I was thinking that this is a horror show. For her to be able to intimidate the witnesses and try and show everyone that she is in charge of the court system because she’s working for Jesus! It’s a nightmare! Her arrogance that she can take over the courtroom. I don’t think that I can watch that after all that’s happened to these victims to be victimized all over again. She knows everything that happened but can spin it. She wants everyone to think that she’s innocent. She seems to want to be famous and spread her religion.
*I believe Lori, sadly, is a toxic narcissist who CRAVES ATTENTION, good, bad or indifferent.* The judge needs to SET THE TONE and NOT ALLOW foolishness or shennanigans in his court room. Toxic narcissism is not considered unfit to stand trial, but it does mean *the judge must CONTROL the situation to the letter of the law.* He needs to order a competency test so it doesn't come back later in appeal. 🤢
Sorry it had to be about Craybell, but it's lovely to see the two of you cracking each other up😂! You've sacrificed so much time bringing us Delphi, and it's not surprising to see your humor, it's just such a nice break. Great show and best to you both!😊
Lori doesn’t fool me one bit. She isn’t “untuned to reality”. She’s not out of it. This is her. This has always been her. The real her became free during, and after, her crimes. She wants the attention. She thinks she can “win” this one.
She is tuned into her own version of reality. Which may not be anyone else’s reality. But she does know that society thinks murder is wrong which is why die just doesn’t announce that she did. She may be whacko but she’s legally sane.
🇨🇦🇨🇦I found HTC when I saw the 2 interviews you did with Heather Daybell. I have family in the LDS and I see a church/corporation that manipulates its congregates! I find it so sad and frustrating!! May the true avid give this extended family peace amidst their storm and heartbreak ! ❤️🩹 I love to see that Colby as not only survived but is thriving. Thanks Lauren and Dr John!!!
I know when I’m nervous or I’m really passionate about something, sometimes my voice gets super high pitched and I forget to breathe lol. However, I’m not a lawyer and would hope I would’ve conquered these emotions before representing a high profile client. 😂
If Lori is allowed to represent herself, it is her role and right to question all who testify - before the trial and on the stand. At what point is the Court able to prioritise the needs of victims and try to avoid further traumatisation?
She wants to represent herself, just like Ted Bundy, because like him, there narcissists. they know, they have a bigger chance of being convicted, they have to show their face, how smart, good-looking, and intelligent they, for the world to remember. There fifteen minutes of fame.And the power, they are in control, and their voice will not be silenced.
Hyperreligiosity, Religious Psychosis, Religious Schizophrenia often goes undiagnosed because doctors just call it schizophrenia. Manson and Koresh had the same thing imo. The d.s.m. doesn't have a specific diagnosis for this illness.
@@lukavega777 Never completely. But it seemed she got better with age. Or else it was me learning I could stand up to her. My daughter is a therapist and she thinks my mom was misdiagnosed. She was diagnosed in the 60s and everyone was diagnosed with schizophrenia in the 60s. My daughter felt she had a type of personality disorder. But my mom always refused to own anything that she was living with. She wouldn’t take medication. To answer your question she did seem to get better as she got older.
I’ve been following Lauren and now Dr. John from the very beginning of this case. It’s absolutely a fascinating study on religion and how people can be conditioned from a young age to then fall prey to left of center ideas. I can’t wait for this next chapter to unfold.
Lori’s “not in my understanding” response reminds me of a phrase a clinical supervisor of mine used to use: “funny thinking.” Highly untechnical catch all term for those people that don’t seem to be actively delusional, seem well oriented, and can perform basic logic and reasoning tasks well, but they keep you guessing by coming up with the logical equivalents of adding 2 and 2 and ending up with 17. Maddening patients to deal with sometimes because they’re uncanny valley. They seem totally “fine” until they suddenly come up with something that is just slightly unhinged enough to make you constantly second guess if they really are more delusional/disoriented than you originally thought.
I saw 1st hand from infancy and into middle age, a family member who was like an atheist version of Lori, which is why I found this case so interesting and follow what HTC covers closely for the insights. I see similarities of the parents also having personality issues, resultant dysfunction and I think these are as much biologic and nature as nurture. Steep 20 years with siblings in the same stew but using not exact genetics and you can see the spread in the Vallow siblings. And the siblings were the training ground for the developing M.O., how to talk to get away with things, how to get things past people. I experienced my similar person lie in such tricky ways and I did not detect lying because, I'd later figure, in their mind they weren't lying. Example: " I have a friend who has a friend that was diagnosed with X..." In later figuring it out, seeing 20 books on a shelf about X, the friend's friend was herself. She was talking about herself but hadn't wanted to admit to having X, but was wanted to talk about getting someone else help so explaining how they knew about where to go for dx and tx. (X was bipolar, they were actually with PD not mood so much but as we know the system tags things for their benefit not for accuracy.) What I think is underestimated greatly is the Systems that grow around such a person and how they can be perceived as stable, responsible etc., and as the disorder progresses with age, they continue fervently working their ropes and strings that worked in the past and won't stop until they get what their mind has envisioned for future reality to occur. And they become destructive, increasingly.
My heart breaks for Charles Vallow he tried to get help if the police listened to him all these people maybe might have not died that whole case in Arizonia was so mishandled and that's what makes it so sad 😢
My question is how much you think Lori wanting to represent herself comes from her dad’s influence? We know he thought he could do better than the AZ state bar and advertised his law office even though he was not an attorney. In her interview with Colby she mentioned helping women in prison with their cases. Representing herself is obviously an attention seeking fete but also prison bragging rights.
@erinmcguire3722 excellent question ! ... Janis Cox appeared in Sins of Our Mother, and subsequently spoke regarding her realization that her daughter was not innocent, but father Barry Cox stays out of the limelight.
her counsel acts as though they are not in control. The look on faces when Lori talks, and the way that they interact with her. Do they just want to be done with her?
I’m thinking about how Lori entered and won a beauty contest, was in the tv game show, and was told she was a goddess. She does think highly if herself and maybe this is just more of her wanting that attention, like you said. Colby did a fantastic job with his interview with Lori. I watched it and it was so revealing about how her mindset is. Delusional
*Why is the judge asking LORI* about her sanity record?! *WHY HASN'T the AZ prosecuter PROVIDED the Idaho WRITTEN record provided by EXPERTS?!* *The judge is leaving it up to LORI'S INTERPRETATION?!* The state of AZ, what's wrong with you?! PD is a circus. Court is a circus. *Absolutely ridiculous.* 🤢 🎪
The judge succeeded in getting Lori’s perception of Idaho’s competency findings on the official record. “What you say CAN and WILL be used against you in a court of law.”
He had the documentation. I believe he asked her to gauge her response in consideration of orientation to time, place, and situation for himself. I would have wanted to know from her directly as well. This helps him determine what kind of courtroom he.might have of she does go pro se.
You guys are the best. Thank you for giving your perspective in this case. She's crazy like a fox. I think she's setting up for appeal by representing herself.
31:54 The Lawyer You Know brought up a good point. The fact that she denies previously being incompetent is kind of a good sign of competence because she is being manipulative. She didn't completely deny it. She answered it in such a manipulative way that it actually shows that she is competent (possibly)
Lauren my background is in marketing and branding and I just wanted to let you know how nice it is that you take the time to read your comments and at least heart them or respond to comments made as busy as you are that is a really important element in having a loyal community and a lot of people miss a huge opportunity in building followers by not paying attention to the comments. It’s just as an as important as the live stream and actually more important in some cases because it really helps with your engagement. i’ve been watching you from the very beginning before John was even on and your channel is grown and I always send people here because I know you guys are credible and legitimate and people ask me all the time what true crime channels I believe in and what do I watch? I always say you, Stephanie Harlow, Duty Ron, dreading explore with us (EWU) and a few more. Thanks for all of your hard work even John has gotten seen much better in front of the camera. I’m so proud of him. He’s come a long way.
Thank you so much! I do try to connect to our listeners through comments and I like to know what they are saying. This is a constant conversation at Hidden True Crime with all of us. ❤ Thank you for sending those you care about to our channel. We are honored you trust us enough to have friends or family listen!
@@HiddenTrueCrimeWe thank you both for your hard work and the integrity and passion. I follow from the beginning. And how you breaking the hard cases down is so wonderful. Mostly unbiased and sometimes less because off your passion and hurting for the victims. And we value the insight off dr John, it makes the horrible acts easier to digest. We learn so much from you both. Thank you and greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
I follow an older guy who used to make documentaries in the 70s and 80s. I stumbled on his channel when he first started out and only had a few thousand subscribers. I didn’t pay any attention to his subscriber count until all of a sudden like 3 years later he is announcing he hit 1 million subscribers! One of the fastest growing channels I have seen that is just a regular channel (if that makes sense). So I spent some time thinking about why his channel grew so fast, and it comes down to- He responds to pretty much every single comment. He either hearts it or leaves a reply on almost every single comment.
Thank you so much for always covering these cases with empathy, kindness, and respect. I do have a question though: do you think Lori may want to be pro se or pro per in order to be able to call and question/cross examine witnesses as a form of control? Thank you again! Long time member that always catches replays, however just switched to Patreon. All my love to you and yours 💜 💜 💜
I definitely think so. It is another trauma and incident of abuse for her living victims though, in my belief. I would hope the experts would be withering in their disdain for her, but I'm sure they'll remain consummate professionals. On the other hand, I still feel a strange empathy for her and how demonstrably unwell she is, as someone who suffers from bipolar disorder and complex post traumatic disorder.
Lori has nothing but time. She has nothing to lose by representing herself at this point and going through the court process gives her time outside of prison.
Her attorney seems fresh out of law school and nervous, and she interrupts the judge constantly. I am hoping that she is represented by herself because it would be a circus to watch, however, it would end up in an over turned verdict and a waste of time/money and more stress on the family.
Never forget Husband #3, Joseph Ryan, Tylee’s father. This may have been Lori and Alex’s first kill for insurance. Please do not forget him. No one believes he died naturally and Lori cashed in on Tylee’s inheritance even though she was no longer married to him.
Oh, I have an idea why she is doing this➡ to call CHAD DAYBELL to the stand so she can see him. As someone representing herself, she can interview Chad.
Colby has been thru more than his fair share for sure. He has found the true God, and thru his faith and what sounds like good therapy Colby has grown and is stronger. There will always be hard and sad times ahead but with God and his beautiful wife and family i know he will be ok! Colby much love, hugs, and prayers for you and your wonderful family!
💯 yes ... he is a full 360° human being ! Great accomplishment for him to be able to examine the before ... and after ... of a series of horrific crimes.
Here they are!!! I was following the latest waiting for the experts opinion (you guys). I think to have Lori defending herself would be very telling of her manipulative mindset, but unbearable to the families... So I hope she doesn't get to. Justice for Charles (and Brandon).
It's crazy even for her. One silver lining though.. is that she is taking all this tragedy from a pop culture reference that would be forgotten over time into a criminal and psychological case study that will keep Charles, Tammy, Tylee and JJ in thoughts for generations. Watching her represent herself on camera will be interesting to say the least.
Charles was shot for his life insurance. What a waste. And like everyone else I’m completely stunned the police didn’t take his death seriously. I wonder if Tylee was killed because she knew too much and had decided to no longer lie for her mother and Uncle.
💯 listening to the recording of Lori confronting Kay about the life insurance is all one needs to know about Lori Cox. The police interview of Tylee after Charles was killed is chilling. Poor kid was already in the rabbit hole.
It's telling when she won't hold Chad Daybell accountable, but will blame her teen daughter, who also lost her bio dad (some may say at Lori's doing) as well as Charles.
I’m so happy that someone FINALLY said it! Finally someone has said that if Arizona would have LISTENED to Charles Vallow or would have treated his death seriously those beautiful babies would still be alive. The federal government need to look into the Florida police and the District Attorney’s office and there should be some consequences to all parties that stood back and did NOTHING.
Arizona
But they need to look into Florida, as well, BECAUSE..Of Shanna Gardner getting rid of her EX, Jared Bridegan, IN FRONT, of his TWO YEAR OLD DAUGHTER! EVIL WOMEN! Both of them!
Arizona police did listen. The unfortunate reality, especially with family law cases, is that it is difficult to prevent a crime from happening that has not happened yet.
I've heard a lot of people say it lol. What do you listen to?
@@jemeikanewson5002 well said also
Justice for Charles. He truly tried to get her help and the cops didn’t help! Such a shame.
That poor, dear man. Charles hit Alex with a bat? Charles played baseball. A hit on the head that was barely a scratch? No. Either Tylee bopped him (since she came in with the bat), or Lori did it to justify the shooting. She continues to demand attention. Meanwhile, 2 of her children and her husband are dead. Any grief? Any sadness? Nope.
It is NOT the job of the police to protect citizens from harm.
Cops did take Tylee & witnesses in to question. More than they'd do in our state! Not like Cops in AZ didnt have a lot on their plate!! illegal begats more illegals in AZ USA & cops were quitting then! Not stepping up.
The great step that Charles Vallow took heading towards divorce was to change the beneficiary of the life insurance policy from Lori to his sister Kay.
@ajk2009 He had called off the divorce.
PD really messed up when Charles was killed! How did they not pick up on the fact that something was really wrong, when Lori was laughing and giggling on the body cam, right after Charles was shot! She also had a pool party later that day! What a missed opportunity! imo
They were ignorant in how to investigate deaths. They had no insight into criminal behavior. Evidentally, they just hired anyone off the street.
You don’t think cops are that dumb to be outsmarted by her do you? Is that what you think? That they didnt know? I know for a fact she slept with several of the police individually seducing them with sex. Does that make more sense now or do you still think cops are just dumb ?
I agree.
This comment needs 1000 thumbs up, they need sued
Because many people are trained to believe the woman - and if a guy says he’s a victim- view him suspiciously because he could be using the system to further abuse the woman.
I’m just angry that Charles didn’t have other people who knew Lori standing with him when he approached police. ( not just standing there like that Bishop who played down the danger and insanity Lori was showing. They didn’t even seem concerned the kids were having contact with a lunatic)
I’ve experienced this first hand.
Being a female the police weren’t great but they did believe me. ( they just loath dealing with domestics)
But when a male friend of mine was getting threats- assaulted at access changeovers- 100 texts a day- he went into a police station to report it and was told to “ Suck it up. Be a man. Just don’t read the texts”
But he had to. Because among the 100 texts there may be one saying “ you need to pick up the kids and take them to their dentist appointment”
So I went into a police station with him and asked to speak to someone who understood domestic violence - and I stood right there as a witness to back him up.
Same officer who told him to “suck it up” seemed suddenly like he had to treat my friend more fairly.
I encourage anyone - male or female- to take a friend or support person if you need to report things.
And if you have a friend in this position? If you are in a place where it’s safe to- back your friend and advocate for them.
They often feel stupid and blames themselves -
I think if Charles had one of loris friends or family saying “ he’s not exaggerating. He and the kids are in danger! She tried to kill her last husband!” MAYBE police would have looked a little closer and seen if there was anything she had done that they could detain her and get her a proper 48 hour assessment done.
She is unable to take responsibility for anything she has done in her life!
🎯
She is perfectly able. She just hopes the men and women around her won’t notice that if she keeps playing acting like she’s a loon.
She doesn’t want to take responsibility… she is the Queen
She’s never getting out no matter what. This is her last moment in the limelight
This right here…I agree 1000% .
You are right. Unfortunately it's going to be a long limelight.
Exactly!
So true! She needs the limelight to thrive.
Hi Colby!
I’m so glad you’re continuing to follow Charles Vallow’s case. His death stunned me and I don’t know why. Perhaps it is because he seemed so smart and directed - a man who had everything, and everything to give. Thank you for remembering him - he deserves it.
You're so right. Charles belongs here, with the people who love him. What a huge loss it is, for him not to be here. For what? So two narcissistic maniacs could dance on the beach and act out their messianic cosplay? This court performance will be her middle finger to the world. To everyone who didn't buy into what she wanted to sell, including her own son. This will not be lost on Colby, which is unbelievably sad.
EXACTLY
It was so painful to view the body cam video when he was pleading with the police officer for help! So very sad.
Retired Atty here. It is a real pain in the backside trying a case against a civilian (non-attorney) who is representing themselves. Competency to cooperate with your attorney is one thing, competency to represent yourself in a murder trial is a totally different. I suspect that the judge and the state would much prefer to try this case if she is represented by counsel. If she represents hereslf it will be a real clown show. She may think she got bad representation in the Idaho trial and that may be why she wants to represent herself (because she still thinks she is innocent).
Is there a difference between competency to stand trial and competency to represent yourself in the eyes of the court?
Hense the delusion she maintains haha
@@donnavance3546good question
She got this idea from the Sarah boon case! She’s wanting attention!mim so sick of her !You guys must be sick of her!mgod loves you❤
nobody is good enough to represent her, in her mind.
So glad you guys are with us to see this till the end.
“Not to my understanding.” What was the phrase she used constantly during her last call to Colby? Was it “in my mind?” It’s like the phrase “my truth.” Usually there’s very little truth when that statement is made.
That phrase also allows her to reframe things from the past now that they’ve been exposed. She knows how everyone else sees it, and she’s uses phrases like this to reframe history in an effort to change the perception of her actions.
or`alternative facts`....seems to have been a past fave by u know who..x
I think her first murder though was Joseph Ryan.
Agree
💯..that we know about
Yep. She sent Alex, the hitman
Noones looked into that. She had access to his home via tylees key.ruled natural death so waz alexs but i dint think alrxs waa a natural death either. He suspected be might br offed. His wife of 3 weeksshpuld have been investigated.she was in loris cult. And 3 weeks into sharing a home he dies.i dont think it was natural nor do i thnk joseph ryans death was natural.
Anyone with money or life ins waz offed.
Joseph ryan, charles vslow, tammy daybell and all witnesses wirh any knowledge of shady actions lori chad did, were erased. The kids, alex, tammy daybell
Colby is such a smart, handsome young man and as a mom to 3 young men myself, I am so proud of the man he's become in spite of the horrible circumstances. In front of the whole world too. I hope and pray great things for his life and family 🙏❤️
I feel he is doing great now.
I disagree that Lori believes that Tylee committed the crime as she stated to Colby. I think she came up with a new narrative that features herself as the virtuous victim and her own child, once again, as evil.
Of course she wants to blame everyone but herself. Tylee appears have died first, then JJ. Tylee had her jeep and if JJ had died first Tylee would have taken off to get either the police or Colby. She was also there when Charles died. She was the lose thread they felt needed to be gone. Who would have believed JJ if somehow he got to the police because he had disabilities? Tylee was the bigger threat. Lori and Chad are pure evil. She will only hurt herself if she becomes her own attorney. How could she then appeal the case by claiming ineffective counsel or that she was insane?
Oh that Defense Attorney!! SIT DOWN, and BE QUIET!!
Agree
Narcissist never admit they wrong. You have to have a recording, and they still will argue they are right.
Lori exhibits a significant appreciation for performing on stage, having previously participated in both a game show and a beauty pageant. This current opportunity represents one of the final occasions for her to engage in such performances. She approaches this event with the understanding that winning is irrelevant; her circumstances in prison are unalterable. Therefore, this experience serves as a means for her to reclaim a sense of identity and presence in the spotlight, albeit transient in nature.
Right, it's something to do.
It’s truly for attention, I believe this, she loves being in the limelight. My condolences to Colby and sounds like he’s trying to move on from this tragedy. You deserve happiness Colby , wishing you the best!
She's a serial killer..Ted bundy did the same thing..their diabolical evil
Mrs. __________ Whatever competition. On stage. On the quiz show. Videos of her.
Good point.
Lori's "not to my understanding" is the same as when she told Colby repeatedly "in my mind."
I always get a kick out of it when Dr. John cackles after making a point, and his voice goes up an octave in amazement at the behavior he's distilling for us. There have been memorable such moments throughout the nightmarish years of Lori's court cases. The sad fact is we're all coming out of this much the wiser about personality disorders and criminal psychology, but to the detriment of any prior hope we had that the world might become a safer place. I guess it's better to be forewarned.
Read this to John. We appreciate this comment
I get a kick out of John, also. And love the interaction between both of you💗
Her new attorney was losing it, she was boarderline hysterical, imo she wants out of the trial, i was waiting for her to start crying
She believes she is a goddess. She just has to open her mouth, and peons will fall at her feet. She will use this moment as her pulpit, her soapbox. _If only you ALL knew THE truth, you will be converted!!_
Note my intense sarcasm..... 🙄🤦♀️
She looks like leonard nimoy
Your so correct. Thamk you
If she is competent enough to hide her crimes, then she is competent enough to be held accountable for her crimes.
My heart breaks for Colby, he has lost everyone! And now his mom wants to have her last say to the world! The court is her theater, and she will play it up just for shits and giggles. She thinks she is smarter than everyone, and this is a big middle finger to everyone who pissed Lori off. And poor Colby has to watch and hear this shit, while trying to be a good husband and father, and a provider.
Dr. John has a good point: Can someone who's delusional realize that they're delusional??
No. That idea defies the definition of "delusional."
Love these episodes with Dr. John!! His insights are a unique and infinitely valuable contribution to truly understanding the criminal mind. Thank you again 😊
You’re welcome!
Lauren& Dr.John, you guys are such professionals! I’m hooked - keep it going, SO AWESOME! One more thing, when the story FIRST broke out? I told my BFF, those children are dead, there was NO question in my mind once they showed her pic - ugh My BFF said, “you really think so? I said LOOK at her, she’s evil!
*This might sound harsh, but I'd like to see Colby, Kay and Larry take Gilbert/Chandler PD to court* for huge failure to take this situation seriously. It's very likely they'd still have Tylee, JJ (and even, Tammy) had the AZ PD *done their job!*
This cannot happen again, and sometimes LAWSUITS are the ONLY WAY to AFFECT REAL CHANGE.
I agree w/ you! I think they all might still be alive if they’d treated Alex Cox as the killer he was. He had a violent history, I don’t understand how he was ever allowed to own a gun again after he attacked her previous ex-husband back in the mid-2000s. They just didn’t do their homework at all and believed that Lori was a victim. 😡
Not harsh at all! I 100% agree! Had they listened to him or took his death seriously, things would be different. He might still be alive … for sure the kids and Tammy would still be alive! The police departments and the District Attorney’s office should be under investigation at minimum. Kay, Larry and Colby should go after all of them and those detectives should lose their jobs.
AZ le failed miserably this trial when it finally happens needs to highlight the absolute failures so change can occur
They did their job. It is not the job of the police to protect citizens from harm.
Lori quite a devious character. If you have not watched the police interviews after Charles Vallow was killed, I highly recommend. HTC playlist includes 250+ in main folder.
She seriously thinks it wasnt her fault and that everyone is crazy except her, like really, she thinks she is some chosen Goddess, she thought her kids were zombies, picks Chad???right there proves she is not all there.
I think her trial is Feb. regardless of if she is representing herself or not.
Her phone call to Ryan where she blames Tylee on killing JJ is disturbing
It’s great to have you both back together here. This is so interesting thank you 💫
Lori has nothing to lose, she has nothing but time to mess around with the system. She is bored - needs to entertain her mind.
I agree 💯
Too bad she has lost it and little Bo-Peep can't find it.
Thank you Lauren and Dr. John!
Thank you so so much!!
@@HiddenTrueCrime I'm glad you got a date night - do that more! 💖😁
Dr John my feelings exactly I was thinking that this is a horror show. For her to be able to intimidate the witnesses and try and show everyone that she is in charge of the court system because she’s working for Jesus! It’s a nightmare! Her arrogance that she can take over the courtroom. I don’t think that I can watch that after all that’s happened to these victims to be victimized all over again. She knows everything that happened but can spin it. She wants everyone to think that she’s innocent. She seems to want to be famous and spread her religion.
She's planning to play her best part ever, and she will be the star, and all the world will be her stage audience
Bit like Ted Bundy, by being able to question and re-live HIS abuse
@@bromptinowner763
Bundy went to law school, at least he had some idea of how to play the part.
@@jeannemarie5908agree !
Dynamic duo doing what you both do best and we’re all here for it. Thank you!
Lauren and Dr John, you are the business. Thank you for this discussion😊
Our pleasure!
*I believe Lori, sadly, is a toxic narcissist who CRAVES ATTENTION, good, bad or indifferent.* The judge needs to SET THE TONE and NOT ALLOW foolishness or shennanigans in his court room. Toxic narcissism is not considered unfit to stand trial, but it does mean *the judge must CONTROL the situation to the letter of the law.* He needs to order a competency test so it doesn't come back later in appeal. 🤢
Sorry it had to be about Craybell, but it's lovely to see the two of you cracking each other up😂! You've sacrificed so much time bringing us Delphi, and it's not surprising to see your humor, it's just such a nice break. Great show and best to you both!😊
Thank you!! 😊
Lori doesn’t fool me one bit.
She isn’t “untuned to reality”. She’s not out of it.
This is her. This has always been her. The real her became free during, and after, her crimes.
She wants the attention. She thinks she can “win” this one.
She is tuned into her own version of reality. Which may not be anyone else’s reality. But she does know that society thinks murder is wrong which is why die just doesn’t announce that she did. She may be whacko but she’s legally sane.
Lori’s latest beauty pageant 😂
Haaa. So true.
Exactly!
🇨🇦🇨🇦I found HTC when I saw the 2 interviews you did with Heather Daybell. I have family in the LDS and I see a church/corporation that manipulates its congregates! I find it so sad and frustrating!!
May the true avid give this extended family peace amidst their storm and heartbreak ! ❤️🩹 I love to see that Colby as not only survived but is thriving.
Thanks Lauren and Dr John!!!
Her lawyer sounded more like a histrionic teen than a lawyer.
What is happening ?
Her atty might be new to the profession or really nervous bc of said client.
Agree with you, I honestly couldn't believe a professional behaved like that😮
Wonder if Lori was blackmailing the Attorney?!
I know when I’m nervous or I’m really passionate about something, sometimes my voice gets super high pitched and I forget to breathe lol. However, I’m not a lawyer and would hope I would’ve conquered these emotions before representing a high profile client. 😂
@@saraha5847I felt like it was actually a sore throat . It sounded like that to me
Thank you for continuing to advocate for the victims of this horrible woman!
Her attorney chugging from her thermos every fifteen seconds was ridiculous and highly unprofessional.
Lauren& Dr.John, you guys are such professionals! I’m hooked - keep it going, SO AWESOME!
If Lori is allowed to represent herself, it is her role and right to question all who testify - before the trial and on the stand.
At what point is the Court able to prioritise the needs of victims and try to avoid further traumatisation?
So good to see you both together again.
Sending wishes for a Blessed Holiday Season for you and your family!
I think the prosecution is trying to be absolutely sure that there is no reason for appeal, which is totally something Lori would do.
She’ll appeal anyway
@aldomaryc yep I'm sure, but they want to make sure that her appeal gets slapped down
When she says “not to my understanding”, it comes off as “not to my acceptance of said incompetence”.
This is a really interesting conversation. Thanks so much!
She wants to represent herself, just like Ted Bundy, because like him, there narcissists. they know, they have a bigger chance of being convicted, they have to show their face, how smart, good-looking, and intelligent they, for the world to remember. There fifteen minutes of fame.And the power, they are in control, and their voice will not be silenced.
*they're
agree. perhaps a little retribution against those who have thought "less" of them..
Hyperreligiosity, Religious Psychosis, Religious Schizophrenia often goes undiagnosed because doctors just call it schizophrenia. Manson and Koresh had the same thing imo. The d.s.m. doesn't have a specific diagnosis for this illness.
True. You said exactly, what happened with my mom
I should have said my mom was nowhere near Manson or Koresh.
@@brite_art668 did she come out of it?
@@lukavega777 Never completely. But it seemed she got better with age. Or else it was me learning I could stand up to her. My daughter is a therapist and she thinks my mom was misdiagnosed. She was diagnosed in the 60s and everyone was diagnosed with schizophrenia in the 60s. My daughter felt she had a type of personality disorder. But my mom always refused to own anything that she was living with. She wouldn’t take medication. To answer your question she did seem to get better as she got older.
@@lukavega777 do you have someone in your life with this?
I’ve been following Lauren and now Dr. John from the very beginning of this case. It’s absolutely a fascinating study on religion and how people can be conditioned from a young age to then fall prey to left of center ideas. I can’t wait for this next chapter to unfold.
Lori’s “not in my understanding” response reminds me of a phrase a clinical supervisor of mine used to use: “funny thinking.” Highly untechnical catch all term for those people that don’t seem to be actively delusional, seem well oriented, and can perform basic logic and reasoning tasks well, but they keep you guessing by coming up with the logical equivalents of adding 2 and 2 and ending up with 17. Maddening patients to deal with sometimes because they’re uncanny valley. They seem totally “fine” until they suddenly come up with something that is just slightly unhinged enough to make you constantly second guess if they really are more delusional/disoriented than you originally thought.
I saw 1st hand from infancy and into middle age, a family member who was like an atheist version of Lori, which is why I found this case so interesting and follow what HTC covers closely for the insights.
I see similarities of the parents also having personality issues, resultant dysfunction and I think these are as much biologic and nature as nurture. Steep 20 years with siblings in the same stew but using not exact genetics and you can see the spread in the Vallow siblings.
And the siblings were the training ground for the developing M.O., how to talk to get away with things, how to get things past people.
I experienced my similar person lie in such tricky ways and I did not detect lying because, I'd later figure, in their mind they weren't lying.
Example: " I have a friend who has a friend that was diagnosed with X..."
In later figuring it out, seeing 20 books on a shelf about X, the friend's friend was herself. She was talking about herself but hadn't wanted to admit to having X, but was wanted to talk about getting someone else help so explaining how they knew about where to go for dx and tx. (X was bipolar, they were actually with PD not mood so much but as we know the system tags things for their benefit not for accuracy.)
What I think is underestimated greatly is the Systems that grow around such a person and how they can be perceived as stable, responsible etc., and as the disorder progresses with age, they continue fervently working their ropes and strings that worked in the past and won't stop until they get what their mind has envisioned for future reality to occur.
And they become destructive, increasingly.
My heart breaks for Charles Vallow he tried to get help if the police listened to him all these people maybe might have not died that whole case in Arizonia was so mishandled and that's what makes it so sad 😢
I love how much y’all care about this case! Appreciate you both greatly!!!
Our pleasure!
If she had been normal in the first place none of these deaths would have occurred.
My question is how much you think Lori wanting to represent herself comes from her dad’s influence? We know he thought he could do better than the AZ state bar and advertised his law office even though he was not an attorney. In her interview with Colby she mentioned helping women in prison with their cases. Representing herself is obviously an attention seeking fete but also prison bragging rights.
@erinmcguire3722 excellent question ! ... Janis Cox appeared in Sins of Our Mother, and subsequently spoke regarding her realization that her daughter was not innocent, but father Barry Cox stays out of the limelight.
I live & I remember . He was begging for anyone to help him 😢
Yes
her counsel acts as though they are not in control. The look on faces when Lori talks, and the way that they interact with her. Do they just want to be done with her?
I’m thinking about how Lori entered and won a beauty contest, was in the tv game show, and was told she was a goddess. She does think highly if herself and maybe this is just more of her wanting that attention, like you said. Colby did a fantastic job with his interview with Lori. I watched it and it was so revealing about how her mindset is. Delusional
Hi Lauren & Dr John 👋 Good to see you again.
I love Dr. John's humor😂😂😂😂
Same!
Would love to see you guys talk with a criminal defence lawyer to hear their perspective on all of this!
Woop! Another Dr. John video drops!
Great seeing yall again ❤
Her attorneys seemed scared to have to represent her.
Thank you Lauren and John for covering the Laurie Vallow case in Arizona. Justice for Charles and Justin.
*Why is the judge asking LORI* about her sanity record?! *WHY HASN'T the AZ prosecuter PROVIDED the Idaho WRITTEN record provided by EXPERTS?!*
*The judge is leaving it up to LORI'S INTERPRETATION?!* The state of AZ, what's wrong with you?! PD is a circus. Court is a circus. *Absolutely ridiculous.* 🤢 🎪
My thoughts exactly 👍
Yes and it's not like Arizona doesn't try murders so lack of experience isn't an excuse. The whole thing is very odd.
The judge succeeded in getting Lori’s perception of Idaho’s competency findings on the official record. “What you say CAN and WILL be used against you in a court of law.”
He had the documentation. I believe he asked her to gauge her response in consideration of orientation to time, place, and situation for himself. I would have wanted to know from her directly as well. This helps him determine what kind of courtroom he.might have of she does go pro se.
You guys are the best. Thank you for giving your perspective in this case. She's crazy like a fox. I think she's setting up for appeal by representing herself.
31:54 The Lawyer You Know brought up a good point. The fact that she denies previously being incompetent is kind of a good sign of competence because she is being manipulative. She didn't completely deny it. She answered it in such a manipulative way that it actually shows that she is competent (possibly)
IMO Lori wants to defend herself so that she can speak face to face with witnesses such as Brandon,Colby, Adam etc. It will be her grand finale.
Yes, that would be so weird and uncomfortable.
That attorney is a whole other side circus on her own! 😱
Lauren my background is in marketing and branding and I just wanted to let you know how nice it is that you take the time to read your comments and at least heart them or respond to comments made as busy as you are that is a really important element in having a loyal community and a lot of people miss a huge opportunity in building followers by not paying attention to the comments. It’s just as an as important as the live stream and actually more important in some cases because it really helps with your engagement. i’ve been watching you from the very beginning before John was even on and your channel is grown and I always send people here because I know you guys are credible and legitimate and people ask me all the time what true crime channels I believe in and what do I watch? I always say you, Stephanie Harlow, Duty Ron, dreading explore with us (EWU) and a few more. Thanks for all of your hard work even John has gotten seen much better in front of the camera. I’m so proud of him. He’s come a long way.
What a nice comment! ❤
Thank you so much! I do try to connect to our listeners through comments and I like to know what they are saying. This is a constant conversation at Hidden True Crime with all of us. ❤
Thank you for sending those you care about to our channel. We are honored you trust us enough to have friends or family listen!
@@HiddenTrueCrimeWe thank you both for your hard work and the integrity and passion. I follow from the beginning. And how you breaking the hard cases down is so wonderful. Mostly unbiased and sometimes less because off your passion and hurting for the victims. And we value the insight off dr John, it makes the horrible acts easier to digest. We learn so much from you both. Thank you and greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
I follow an older guy who used to make documentaries in the 70s and 80s. I stumbled on his channel when he first started out and only had a few thousand subscribers. I didn’t pay any attention to his subscriber count until all of a sudden like 3 years later he is announcing he hit 1 million subscribers! One of the fastest growing channels I have seen that is just a regular channel (if that makes sense). So I spent some time thinking about why his channel grew so fast, and it comes down to- He responds to pretty much every single comment. He either hearts it or leaves a reply on almost every single comment.
Surviving the Survivor is an amazing podcast with great guests every night.
Been off line for awhile. Glad to see you.
Same
I think “nervous” is being nice. She seems frantic.
When i say "In my mind...I'm 25." In my reality, I'm 60.😂😂
Love it. In my mind i'm 42
Reality am 76 years young
And I’m 18 😂
Thank you so much for always covering these cases with empathy, kindness, and respect. I do have a question though: do you think Lori may want to be pro se or pro per in order to be able to call and question/cross examine witnesses as a form of control? Thank you again! Long time member that always catches replays, however just switched to Patreon. All my love to you and yours 💜 💜 💜
I definitely think so. It is another trauma and incident of abuse for her living victims though, in my belief. I would hope the experts would be withering in their disdain for her, but I'm sure they'll remain consummate professionals.
On the other hand, I still feel a strange empathy for her and how demonstrably unwell she is, as someone who suffers from bipolar disorder and complex post traumatic disorder.
Great insight, thank you ever so much, Lauren and DR John!🤩✨
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well it was clear she knew it was wrong because she hid it! I think you can be crazy and still know right from wrong in general
Lori has nothing but time. She has nothing to lose by representing herself at this point and going through the court process gives her time outside of prison.
Her attorney seems fresh out of law school and nervous, and she interrupts the judge constantly. I am hoping that she is represented by herself because it would be a circus to watch, however, it would end up in an over turned verdict and a waste of time/money and more stress on the family.
Thank you Dr John and Lauren for all this coverage. I admire you both! Happy Belated Thanksgiving.
You're very welcome; I relished every moment spent creating this 'thank you for all that you do book.
Are you writing a book about them?
Never forget Husband #3, Joseph Ryan, Tylee’s father. This may have been Lori and Alex’s first kill for insurance. Please do not forget him. No one believes he died naturally and Lori cashed in on Tylee’s inheritance even though she was no longer married to him.
💯 exactly ... and received his survivor Social Security benefit for Tylee, and, fraudulently, even after Tylee was deceased (!)
Love your thorough coverage and opinions, as always!
Thanks so much!
Oh, I have an idea why she is doing this➡ to call CHAD DAYBELL to the stand so she can see him. As someone representing herself, she can interview Chad.
He threw her under the bus, during his trial, blaming her for manipulating him to unalive the children and his wife
Breatheeeeee Attorney 😂😂
Colby has been thru more than his fair share for sure. He has found the true God, and thru his faith and what sounds like good therapy Colby has grown and is stronger. There will always be hard and sad times ahead but with God and his beautiful wife and family i know he will be ok! Colby much love, hugs, and prayers for you and your wonderful family!
Colby is amazing,,thank you for all that you've done..❤
💯 yes ... he is a full 360° human being ! Great accomplishment for him to be able to examine the before ... and after ... of a series of horrific crimes.
Hi Duty Ron❤ God bless you! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
I love Lauren and Dr. John.
I'm catching the replay. 😊
Here they are!!! I was following the latest waiting for the experts opinion (you guys). I think to have Lori defending herself would be very telling of her manipulative mindset, but unbearable to the families... So I hope she doesn't get to. Justice for Charles (and Brandon).
She’s lying 🤥. How could Tylee unalive her brother, when Tylee was unalived first. LVD is definitely mentally unstable.
She is Wicked
It's crazy even for her. One silver lining though.. is that she is taking all this tragedy from a pop culture reference that would be forgotten over time into a criminal and psychological case study that will keep Charles, Tammy, Tylee and JJ in thoughts for generations. Watching her represent herself on camera will be interesting to say the least.
They obviously will be calling niece Melody to the stand, and that will be fascinating
Thank you both!
Charles was shot for his life insurance. What a waste. And like everyone else I’m completely stunned the police didn’t take his death seriously. I wonder if Tylee was killed because she knew too much and had decided to no longer lie for her mother and Uncle.
💯 listening to the recording of Lori confronting Kay about the life insurance is all one needs to know about Lori Cox. The police interview of Tylee after Charles was killed is chilling. Poor kid was already in the rabbit hole.
It's telling when she won't hold Chad Daybell accountable, but will blame her teen daughter, who also lost her bio dad (some may say at Lori's doing) as well as Charles.
She may be competent but if she’s delusional then she shouldn’t be-able to represent herself.
Shoddy police work out there!
Love Dr John and his professionalism
Was Lori Vallow’s lawyer nervous or was that just her natural voice/way of speaking. She sounded very shakey.
Dr John looks so happier now you are home. Lauren you also look so rested. ❤❤❤❤❤❤
If she acts as her own attorney, would it give her access to talk to Chad??
Great show, you two are great together!
No person with Lori's view can be normal. She said there was no deaths, then the daughter killed herself. If its a suicide, why destroy the bodies