2 Wire and 3 Wire Submersible Well Pump Motor Wiring Differences Explained
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2018
- In this video, I go over the differences of a 2 wire and a 3 wire submersible well pump.This is associated with the starting components for the pump and whether they are located inside the motor or in a control box for access above ground.
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/ @wendellleewellservices
Thanks for the lesson on pumps and how they work.
Thank you. Exactly what I needed to know.
I want you to know you saved me a lot of time and money Thanks man
I believe you did a very good job of explaining things.
thanks for the comment and tuning in
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you!
I’m learning about well pumps and everything else that goes along with them out of necessity.
I recently told the property owner “thanks for allowing me the opportunity to learn how to run a ranch and be the full time maintenance man. I’m paying as I go so anytime something happens, I’m responsible. Eliminating the controller box made sense to me the moment I learned what it is. Used to be 44 horses here and the controller makes it possible to run the well pump and the transfer pump to keep the 3,500 gallon tank ready to fill a trough anytime and fill another and another. Now it’s just me and my little woman. No more horses for the time being. Thanks for reassuring me that I was thinking correctly about eliminating the unnecessary things that plagued the system. I might make it fully manual and turn the well pump on once every four or five days and not have to worry about all the other stuff knowing I have a good transfer pump and pressure tank. Great videos like this one makes UA-cam priceless!
Keep up the good work!
This was a great & simple explanation. Thank you very much. Now, I've got to find a video on how to install them.....smiling, but true.
helped me, thanks!!
Perfect info, just what I needed, thanks
Yeah thanks very much. Good info.
I just changed my 2 wire . 176 feet deep.
My shoe was about 10 foot down and a real problem lining the shoe back up.
I did the whole thing by hand 🖐. That pip gets really heavy man💪after about 20’ .
It was like 20 beer beak 20’ beer breaks.
Hahaha
lol i hear ya, it does get heavy quickly
Nicely done, explained to manufatured standards of say ten years ago. If people need say deeper wells or want to add other components above ground, they can, and efficiency goes with understanding resistances so.. Thanks for sharing!
thanks for tuning in and getting use out of our videos
Nice videos. Keep them coming. I will be installing a 2 wire Grundfos 10sq07-200. I was leary of switching from a 3 wire setup to 2 wire, but the soft start feature, light weight, and low amp draw have me sold on it. I worked for a well driller for 4 years, but we generally didn't do pump work unless we were putting in a 4 inch steel liner or just pulling pumps for well abandonment. One idea for future videos, let us see what some common failures of pumps are, along with suspected causes, and maybe some reviews. Thanks.
Sure thing, thanks for tuning in and commenting. We always love suggestions and I will keep them coming. You will love the Grundfos SQ, we have had very few issues with them.
Liked you explanation!
Thanks very much for helping
good info thanks
Best simple explanation
Thanks for a good explanation.
thanks for your feedback
Good explanation!
Fantastic! Thank you soo much! Great explanation especially the pros & cons. Also appreciated you stating why you prefer to go with 2-wire setups vs. 3, when possible.
thanks for commenting and glad you enjoyed the video and supported our channel by watching it.
Very helpful, thanks! Related question, I'm replacing our home 1/2 hp pump, (about 75 ft down which lasted 25+ years) I'm wondering if I also need to replace the existing 2 wire (Kalas flat yellow) cable. Apart from one chafing "cut" about 2 ft above the pump, the rest of the cable appears on the outside in good shape. Yet when I started to prepare the end for splicing, I notice a bit of "green" colored crust/dust -- inside the yellow outside casing. Yes, I can easily clean off the copper ends, but is this an indication there's corrosion inside the cable that could cause problems? (perhaps caused by well shocking?) Or is this merely cosmetic?
Helpful & fun...that's how work gotta be...
Always, that's how we try to do it if we can.
Thanks great video
Great video, very good explanation of 2-wire vs. 3-wire systems with pros & cons!!
thanks for the comments and glad you found the video useful
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I stupidly forgot my login password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me.
@Aries Nathaniel instablaster ;)
@Prince Quinton thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm trying it out atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
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Good info. I always thought 2 wire pump meant only 2 wires, and 3 wires was a pump that includes an equipment grounding conductor or an ungrounded pump with the control box above, because many years ago well pumps were not required to be grounded because they were not considered accessible. However some folks would pull the pump to test it, and the motor housing could become live if there were an internal fault to its casing.
please explain the 3 wire pump wiring, thanks
Hi Wendell, do you know where I can get a relay for my 1.5 hp Franklin 3-wire starter? Everyone out there wants to sell me an entire starter, but all I need is a relay. TIA.
What manufacturer pressure tank do you recommend?
Getting a well drilled next week. 1.5hp 2 wire. Told me I need #4 URD for a 200' run from the service panel. Urd has 2 hots and a neutral. Do yall just use the neutral as the ground on both sides of service? And does #4 sound right?
You did a video on pressure tanks and mentioned two brands you liked. So how about a video on pumps? The good, the bad ones you install. If not a video then just a comment here would be seen after watching this video. Thank You!!!
What voltage do you recommend 115v vs 230v for 50ft well 15-20ft away from electrical subpanel?
Where is your well service company located? You seem very knowledgeable in regards to the in ground well trade, and I was wondering if you were located near or if you knew anyone you would reccomend in the central Texas area?
So can what components do you recommend for the separate control box that are better?
I would like to know is how to ground the third wire on a 2Wire system? Does the third ground wire have to come up the line to the top to be grounded?
God bless you
what is the most common size of well pump you install, gpm and hp?
Replaced my pump just a few years ago, power went out, this is in the country of course, power came back on from the storm and pump doesn't work, 2-wire with ground pump. Could the integrity of the wiring that feeds from up top down to the motor have bearing on in-ground static or lightning that could be in the area? How does that play in? In short, I've been without any water for about a year now, toting water from my neighbors well across the road. I have now the money to purchase a $399 2-wire pump from Lowe's but I really should also likely replace all the wiring, even from the direct burial feed that's been in place for years, depth buried unknown and quality of installation unknown. Are there suggested types of breakers that could be used? Likely it's a Square D 200A panel. (I'm a previously licensed Journeyman electrician who's been doing everything else since my licensing years ago.) I suspect that I could get an ohm meter and test the existing wiring with long leads to see what it reads. Suggestions?
I ran into an amazing rent deal in a brick house on several acres close to the city but surrounded by woods. Only catch was I have to fix things myself. House was allrdy Jerry rigged up with the wiring. After a few years woke up and no water no pressure. Eventually seen the 110 breaker labeled "well" had nothing connected. Wire from well was run underground I couldn't ever find where it come out. I unhooked from junction box in well and run a dropcord and I assumed it was 110 cause it was 2 wires from pump and I knew way less then about well pumps then. I still don't know much. But I found that no matter which receptacle I plugged into the breaker box would wig out hum real loud then flip breaker. Realized that if I cut off hot water heater breaker I could then successfully choose any plug and have running water. But couldn't have hot water and running water at same time. Later I cut into water heater wire a few feet from the breaker and pulled it thru and hooked a dryer cord up to it and I have been doing that to feed my addiction to not cold showers. Over time my pump is whack and less pressure and I'm limited to a couple shits a evening after work and a quick shower n the morning. Sometimes I have no water at all. I kind of just wanted to share my experience with people that may would take a interest in it I know I got things rigged up like a waterhead would do. I assume a warm drop cord would happen on 110 or 220 , but if anyone is still with me here and had a idea of how I could find out of my pump is 220 that would be cool but it's not expected. U know, other than calling a professional. The way things are rigged up here even before I got ahold of things would likely bring more attention than I would like. Thanks for reading my rambling
I had a 3 wire motor. New motor is a 2 wire... I don't know how to wire it in. Do you have a video on how to do it? Do I still use a control box?
where do you do your work at? I’m in Maryland I need pump replaced
I've got a Grundfos 2 wire 10 SQ/SQE pump that's marked 110v on the housing. According to the manual on the pump side of the pressure switch it shows Line Neutral and Green wires. Mine has 2 black wires and 1 green wire. Should I assume either black wire can be used as a Line or a Neutral wire? You would think Grundfos would tell you what color the pump wires are but they don't.
can you make a video about the different types of pipe elevators, pipe clamps, etc
yes we can, thanks for your input
Great video man. I am here in Canada and have a flowing artsian well with a 2 wire 1HP motor that has issues. Do you have to use a trash pump to pump below the pitless adapter while pulling the pump? or just do everything you normally would do with the water flowing out if the top?
we dont have many flowing wells here but in the few ones we do have, we just pull them as we normally would. We also don't install pumps on a pitless adapter here either, all of ours are on a well seal resting on top of the casing 1 ft above grade
thank you for your reply. I wish mine was like that. Pitless is 5.5 feet down. I've tried calling around to have the pump pulled and everyone is just terrified because it's a flowing well. I am going to attempt it myself at this point.
@@tnt666tnt hopefully it isn't too deep in the well. 5.5 feet down to the pitless, good lord that is DEEP! But it has to be where you are.
@@tnt666tnt if you had a small trash pump you could pump the water level down long enough to get to the pitless. I'm not sure how much it is flowing but it would give you some time to see and get it out before it starts flowing again. Flowing wells are aggravating.
I agree. it seems very aggravating... Last year the top of the well froze and the ice pulled apart the butt connects for the wiring to the pump. I paid $400 Canadian to have some guy pull the cap off and tell me it was frozen That's when I learned we even had a flowing well. I thawed it myself, found and fixed the wire. Now I want to pull the pump, replace it and install a well buster seal so water wont come above the frost line.
So as far as reliability, is there a difference between and 120 or 240 volt pump? I have a 240volt pump but want to get off the grid. More expensive to build a 240 volt system. But will do it if a 240 pump is better. Thanks
It's mostly a matter of horsepower. 120V motors are 1/2 hp. Can you manage with 1/2 hp? If so, great. Go for it. It you're deep you may need 3/4 or even 1 hp, and that motor will be 240V.
So if you have a two wire system and it's 220 volts you're just hooking up two hots? And if it's 110 you got your hot and neutral?
Id like to chat with ya man. About my set up. From holding tanks, to supply my small house. I need a quiet pump so im thinking submersable. Curious about wiring.
Sure thing, send us an email and we would love to talk to you
@@WendellLeeWellServices are you availiable
Thank you for the video! I live in Florida. I have well for my sprinklers. Last week it only water half of my lawn and it stop. If I turn to manual mode it will still have water come out but if I turn it to auto mode it will not come out and it will trigger the braker. my sprinkler guy just replace the controller but still do the same. so he suggest to replace the pump. My neighbor said it could be water level too low. Do you have any idea what the problem could be? Should I replace pump? Thank you for your time!
It could be a lot of different things that is hard to diagnose without being at your jobsite to see exactly what is going on. How long has the pump been installed? Is the controller faulting out on low water or high amp draw? Is the controller faulting out or is the breaker tripping? Have you had any bad storms in the area with lightning strikes close by recently? I would start by getting a licensed well contractor out from your area to look at your problems.
We haven't rain for a while. It could be low water. if so, what should I do?
@@kawaiikate5145 If that is it you could try and drill another well or drill it deeper to obtain more water. I doubt if that is it but I would get a licensed well contractor to look at it. They would be able to identify options for you if that is it.
Thank you!
I have removed my control box cover on my 3 wire deep well system and I’m getting phase to ground on all 3 leads to the motor. Is this normal or am I missing something?
How far from a power supply meter can you run a 1 hp pump motor drawing 10 amp max on start side w/ 15 amp breaker ( 550 ft #4 cu. presently under ground and 320ft to pump in well) 880 ft total, can we run pump on 10 ga. from starter box at well head.? DJ @ wildcat well svc,
according to the franklin aim manual you can run #10 if you have #4 ran from the breaker to the well head. Although for a 1 hp motor, you need a 20 amp breaker instead of a 15 amp.
I recently moved into a home that has city water and a non-operational well. I used a voltage sniffer at the well head and there is some sort of power there although I couldn't determine which wires were "live".
I'm trying to eliminate items that don't affect whether or not the pump will work. Sure, the pressure switch might not actually work properly and I will address that later, in the meantime I just want to find out if the pump itself works. The pressure switch presumably defaults to the on position and the increasing water pressure turns it off. So "always on" should be good enough for my test, correct ?
The layout of the system is :
Power from breaker (230v) enters a switched box, then to the pressure switch, then to the controller, then outside to the well shaft.
I have confirmed power from the breaker, through the switched box, through the pressure switch and into the control box to be ~230v. Presumably that questionable pressure switch is at least "on".
I also checked the R, B and Y lines from the control box to the well to be R-Y 18 ohms and B-Y 6.5 ohms. I found another video that concluded that if I have a 0.5 HP pump and 230 v supply that those resistance readings indicate that the pump itself is ok. However, I don't know what pump is down there.
Looking at the removable part of the control box, the label states 0.5 HP and the capacitor has at some time leaked and the indicator is yellow.
A couple of things - there are no ground wires anywhere. None from the breaker, none in the switch between the breaker and the pressure switch and none in the control box either from the line or the load. When I look at the wires under the well "cap" all I see are the red, yellow and black that come from the control box and they continue on down the well shaft to the pump. They are then spliced onto the wires from the pump and there is a ground wire that comes from the pump that looks like it's been cut and just taped to the remaining wires. The sniffer detects voltage on both sides of the splices. Again, I can't tell which wires have power, the sniffer is too sensitive.
I have ordered the matching capacitor for the control box and will replace that. Is there anything else I should know about before I try to run it again ?
I tapped on the pressure tank and the top sounds hollow whereas the lower half has a more solid sound to it.
Once I replace the capacitor can I just turn it on and see what happens or do I need to prime anything since this hasn't been used since 2014 when the house was connected to city water...according to my town's municipal office. I can see the water line in the well shaft so the pump is definitely beneath that. How deep the well is, I don't know. I also don't know how far down the well the pump sits.
Why are there no grounds ? I believe the pump was installed in 1990 since there was a copy of an instruction manual with "Installed 1990" written on it. No mention of the pump size, just that it was a Goulds pump and the manual covers 4, 6 and 8" submersible pumps. Ultimately I'm trying to get to a point where it either works or I can determine that it's definitely a bad pump.......and then pull the pump and replace it knowing it will then work. Obviously I want to eliminate everything else first. Thanks to anyone that can offer some insight.
There wasn't a ground wire because they weren't manufactured in motors back then. 1990 was right around when ground wires started being installed in motors. For the money, you may as well get a relay too inside the box. Then, go buy an amp meter and clip it around the wires. That way when you throw power to it, you can tell if the motor runs or if it is locked up.
@@WendellLeeWellServices Thanks, I wasn't able to locate a relay using the serial number printed on the label - the only thing I found was a complete box. Having already bought the capacitor I declined to buy a whole box. I then found a video about testing the relay - here - ua-cam.com/video/ZvQc8l8ueUM/v-deo.html
The relay I have is the blue one but mine is marked 1/2 HP 230V. Following the video I checked the resistance and the results were -
CAP - B : no reading at all.
B - L1 : my meter measured 0.3 Ohms. The video said the number should be 0.
Also, when I powered up the system there were no sounds from the relay, I would have expected a click if the relay switched over but I heard nothing at all.
So, should I still replace the relay - meaning the whole box - or move onto checking the pump with the amp meter.
How do I do that, just hang the clamps around the red, yellow and black wires that come out of the bottom of the control box (heading to the pump) ? What am I looking to see ?
Edit- I borrowed an amp meter and when we threw the switch the reading was.....zero. That said, when we tested it we put the clamp around all three wires and I have since read that they could "cancel each other out" and we should have tested each conductor separately. So, is it the pump or could it still be the control, relay perhaps since I replaced the capacitor. or should I re-test the amps of each conductor separately ?
Thanks for your help with this.
An added advantage to a three wire is that if ever you need to run it off a generator or inverter, the three wire pump will start on about half the current needed (generator size) than a two wire pump. They also are a little more efficient to run. In my case I down sized from a 3/4 hp two wire to a 1/2 hp three wire. I needed a 3,200 watt generator to start the 3/4 hp 2 wire but the 1/2 hp two wire would start on a 1400W gen or a good quaintly 1500W pure sine inverter (BTW: I did this through a 120 to 240 transformer that used 100w itself - it was at least 2x oversized) ) . It may not have taken a full 3200W gen for the two wire 3/4hp but that is the next size I had and I had it on good advice that it would take that much). Also, while I haven't tried it I understand and capacitor start/capacitor run control (two caps and a start relay) may have made reduced the start and run currents even more vs the more typ single run/start cap control.
Now when you say a 2-wire, does that mean that it has three wires coming up to the top of the Wellhead? I actually have two wires coming up to the Wellhead into the house on mine. Is that right?
in today's world yes, two wires and a ground. You must have a pump that is older than 30 years, back before pump manufacturers ran a ground wire off their motor.
@@WendellLeeWellServices I am closing on an old house this week and I noticed the wiring from the well has 3 wires coming in, only 2 are connected to the pressure switch (which appears to be 240v), the yellow (which I believe is ground) is just hanging there not attached. I have do not know what is under the well cap, but I am guessing it is an older 2 wire as well unless someone was lazy and just didn't want to connect the ground? Have you seen it like this before? I am planning on replacing the pressure tank and switch and will plan to hook up the ground wire to the well pump (even if the current pump doesn't have a ground wire) that way when the pump needs replaced the ground wire will be grounded.
@@brandonandkeiafink204 Yes I have seen this before. Chances are your pump is old and doesn't have a ground wire ran out of its motor.
We had lightning take out 2 TVs and our well pump started messing up. The water will only work for a little bit shuts off low pressure. I checked electric and I'm still getting 240 going down to the pump. If we wait a couple minutes it comes right back on
My two wire pump will now and the not come on when the pressure switch clicks on will not catch and the points don’t stay closed its new pressure switch should I try to adjust the on pressure from thirty to 25 and yes the bladder pressure is at 28 now the switch is a 30-50
Is there a difference in phase of the motor with a 2 wire or 3 wire or are they both single phase motors?
Both are single phase. Only the controller (starter) components are a little different. Two-wire is simpler for the installer because the starter is integrated into the motor. But more costly overall to the owner, because the motor/pump unit must be pulled to the surface for testing & repair etc.
For example: I have a Franklin/Grundfos, 1.5hp 3-wire setup that is way over 20 years old & (almost) everything can be tested and serviced at the surface. My pump spun-off of the 1.25" PVC pipe because it was short-cycling or "jacking" (installed by the previous (non-genius) owner). I'm installing a rebuild kit in the pump while it's in my shop (seals, check valve, & bearings etc.
Here's a tip for y'all: please save yourselves a lot of aggravation, & don't depend on PVC pipe to support the weight of your very expensive pump unit. Attach a stainless steel wire/cable to your pump, and anchor it to something sturdy up top. It'll make it much easier to yank it out later, and one person can do it.
Btw, does anyone know where I can find a replacement relay for my 3-wire 1.5 hp Franklin starter box ? Thanks in advance fella's.
@@brianwood7480 Thanks. I figured that just never tested. Most neutrals and grounds are bonded in the panel and a 240 vac hot water tank will work without a ground. Sorry I dont know where to find the part you require. Cheers
So on a 2 wire does it matter what side the 2 blacks wires go on pressure switch?
Hi
Did you figure it out?
Having the same question.
What is cost 1hp comtroll box.
My submersible pump literally has only two wires going down into the casing. The installer described it to me as a two-wire 240-volt pump
Why does the wire coming into my house from the pump connected to the pressure switch have no ground wire, only the two conductors? The wire going to the pressure switch from the breaker panel does have a ground wire. As far as I know the pump is the original from when the house was built in 1985.
I'm tryin to determine the same thing on my well...from what I understand is back in the day they didnt require a ground as the metal casing of the pump goes into the ground 100 feet or so..no better ground then a 100 foot metal pipe in ground..but now I believe the require a ground..idk
Hey guys! I have a 1,5 HP, 230 volts ,10 AMP, RPM 3450 well pump. 100 feet away from the control box. Can anyone help me out what's the necessary wire gauge for this condition? My electric usage 18-22 kW/day without well pump. If I'm running the pump as well goes up to 80-90 kW. Isn't little bit too much usage from a 1,5 HP pump? I'm not an electrician but looks like the wires to the pump 14 or 12 gauge. Just wondering if it could cause the extra power usage? Thanks for any help
No, the cable size isn't responsible for your power consumption. That cable really should be upgraded to #10, but where are all those kWh going? That's a ridiculous amount of power. Even if your pump ran continuously, twenty-four hours a day, you'd 'only' use about 60 kWh.
@@paulmaxwell8851 Thank You, Paul!
I could use some help. I have a water well feeding my house. And my house has three bathrooms I have a three-quarter inch pvc line coming from the well and it works good. Now my father-in-law wants to put in a camper to be near us around 400 feet from my well His camper has a shower an sink and toilet . He also will have a portable building with a full bathroom and washer and dryer facility . If I hook onto the back of my house it's only 300 feet and would save 100 ft digging and pipe should 3/4 " pex from my house to my father-in-law meet his needs or do I need to increase my plumbing diameter? Or run a 400 ft dedicated to the father-in-law place and if so what size pipe.
I just pulled my 1 HP Burks pump and it probably was installed in 1988. It has three wires coming out of the motor (black, yellow, red) AND I have a control box. Point being, there are exceptions I guess.
Put a few pentek 2 wire ones in and do a review. Just pulled one at 270 didn't last 6 months. Franklin the only 2 wire motor that will last.
Dang, yea that is aggravating. All we have used is Franklin motors for years, I haven't heard of people having problems like that with the smaller Pentek motors. That is definitely good to hear and know.
I sent it back for refund and my supplier told me they get a lot back. We use Grundfos and Franklin. Franklin is a great company to deal with. They have a state of the art factory in Bolton Ontario Can not far from us and you can get product training from them,we are planning on going in the winter. And it's free. You got a great channel. I would like to know more about rotary drilling all I know is cable tool. Thanks
Wouldn't another benefit of 2 wire pumps be that you can use a generator if the power goes out and/or hook up to solar power much easier?
well a control box has to be in there somewhere, whether its build into the motor from the factory or up on top of the ground it doesn't matter. so that really doesn't matter you can use a generator on a 3 wire or 2 wire pump
@@WendellLeeWellServices Ok thanks, I think to use a generator on a 3 wire pump you have to have a larger, 230 volt capable generator? (I have a smaller generator that is 115 volt only)
@@TrentAlvarez yes that is correct
I can't find anyone that will explain what the yellow wire does on a three wire pump. You have to hots coming into the control box which then turns into three wires going into the pump. I have heard the yellow wire is to help start the pump another site it said it's is a neutral.
I think the yellow Wire is for the capacitor to help start the pump but I'm no expert
Doesn’t a 3 wire use less electricity?
It's easier to get to a control box... I'd take the control box a hundered times over components that are virtually inaccessible in a well.
Help, they guy that shocked my well said i had three wires..he said he didnt know why and didnt hook up the third wire. not kidding. what do I do?
Shakti pumps
I wanted one but my wife thinks having a 1 or 2 horses is too expensive
5:16 Son, you should never verbally out loud tell yourself to shut up 🙄 that's our job 😂 either out loud or under our breath 😋
So a two wire is really a three wire in a three wire is really A four wire
yes, but in the electrical world they only count the wires that are hot....hence why it is one less than what actually comes with the motor
I wouldnt trust that nowadays they're still putting more robust components in the 2 wire pumps.
I just changed my 15 - 20 well . My old pump was properbly still good. But I changed it. I had a crack on one of my PVC's which had leak, probably too much on pump, no water. Replaced pump. Pump is not 2yrs old, no water a week ago. Same well folks put in the new pump trying to find the cause. They pulled up pvc' as they were taking out pvc's they saw the wires burnt out on different sections of the PVC. They patched damage wires, reattached to PVC and charged me almost $600. Are they allowed to charge
that much. They installed pump, I think this was their poor workmanship.
Oh boy....3 wire is because most times after a lighting strike after the one time arrestor does it's job you could swap out the box.. guys who sell nothing but ,2 wires are looking for a pump job lol
You should have clarified most of the motors are 110. Not a 110 and a 220.
We have a three wire grafundus