I should've said "take the pie out of the butt end of the second log." I figured you'd just automatically get that. The way you do a rigging cut, is to take your cuts out of the sides of the tree, leaving a VERTICAL 2 - 3" HINGE in the middle, NOT out of the top and bottom, that would be disastrous. I've done maybe a thousand of these, cutting on steep ground with felled trees spanning draws sometimes 30 - 40 plus feet from the ground. One time, me and my partner backed up this sheer ridge with no place to stick a tree, side by side, using a Dutchman, sending tree after tree down the hill where they stacked up at the bottom until we had a pile and then we climbed down and bucked what we could and put rigging cuts in what we couldn't and then climbed back up the ridge and did it again and again until the slope was cleared. Believe me, I'm not going to do anything stupid standing on a 40" diameter Doug fir 30 feet above the ground spanning a sheer rock face. It's always tough to get the message across with a keyboard. I could show you how, in the time it would take to make the cut... (grin)
Ok, here we go... The " "I figured you'd just automatically get that. " is an assumption, on your part. I like to say what I mean and mean what I say. When I'm not succinct about what I'm doing along our shared ridgeline, ravine, bluff, creek, etc., etc., etc. that's when somebody gets killed or maimed. I give the viewer the benefit of the doubt - that they can/will make cognitively accurate thought(s) (statements) strings of what they are trying to convey. You make your rigging cuts a certain way based on your experience, in certain wood, in certain locations. I make my rigging cuts a certain way as well. I might also have a rhino lip (Russian Coupling) in the mix, depending. I wonder if you assume that you are one of the only ones that has worked on bad ground. Most of the older guys that fell out on the West Coast (COASTAL) before the advent of the slash 'n' dash method became common place, have been in places where they were on ropes, OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN. I could talk about the times where you cannot get your arm fully extended while standing on the hillside. Where one guy is holding on to the other's pants/belt while gnawing on 60 & 70" cuts. It's to late for some of the nuance while sawing on 8 and 10' redwood cuts. And, does it really matter? Knowing how the wood behaves is paramount. I cut this unit alone. So, between the two of us, I know how the wood was holding, or not, in this area. This tree ended up with deflection in the bole - read - loaded. Easily seen @ the 3:51 & 3:58 time stamps. The trees @ 4:12 & 4:23 are part of the reason why. For review -At 6:03 I started in on the downhill side of the buck. (I ABSOULTELY did not want the two cuts to move while I was stand out there bucking. Mostly it is because the wood in this area breaks "phunny".) I cut the left side belly and side. I repositioned and cut the right side belly, up the side, and over the top. the result was an elliptical post in the center. I've seen where the break in this strip will yield a ~ 4" post of wood pull in the center. It breaks quick and it's violent most often. So, not a lot warning. For the casual viewer - It's also important to mention that the relief "pie" needs to be on the correct side or it does no good. Knowing how the yarding will happen is a consideration there. Here we have a standard "rigging" cut. Nothing fancy, (sans any reliefs) because it is not required. Also, there is not much tree to play with. I worked around an old timer back in the '70s in a couple of summers. He started falling right when powersaws came to be in the woods. Never saw him take any reliefs on his rigging cuts. Never saw where he slabbed up a bunch of peelers either. I would never assume I've cut any place that is "worser" than the next personally. Or, that I'm better than the next faller. You have your way & I have mine. Your methods worked for you. I was never fired for shoddy workmanship and I'm still alive. Best of luck in the future.
@@hotsaws101 You've got the wrong read on me, but that's easy to do with keyboard chats. If you go back to the start, I said: "I'm not criticizing", and I wasn't. I was just saying what I would've done in that situation. No need to get your back up (if you are?) (damn computers) I'm a big fan and I know you can get in and out of the woods without needing my help. It was more like comparing notes. So, let's be friends, whaddaya say???
@@kingslew1866 Possibly. I've been wrong before. The lack of body language is not helpful either. I've found that it is imperative for me to choose my words wisely. I have definitely misread what the viewer is trying to convey. More than a couple of times as well. So no offense, but the word choice appeared "on this end" as unfriendly fire. The, "hey have you ever consider this" seems to work well. In light of comparing notes: I was standing in the Husky shop in Weaverville in the spring of '00. It was a Saturday, mid-morning. This "faller" who claimed to be "certified" to work on fires was pontificating on his credentials & abilities. Through the ego assisted bragging session, I was told that I'm not of his stature in my falling prowess. That guy had absolutely no clue as to what I was, and/or am, capable of. What I've seen and done while on the end of a pistol grip. The size of wood I've felled. The kind of ground I've cut on and lived to tell. Whether or not I've worked on burns as well. Now, why is that. Because he is one of those that cannot check his ego at the door. After ~ 90 seconds, I just turned and walked away... This channel has been operational since '08. The assumptive, presumption-ists, know more than everyone else-s, come and go. When someone is going to show me something, they assume that I am, at that point, incapable or unknowing. I use different techniques in different situations. I use variations of techniques in certain scenarios as well. I try and achieve a result on the timber. I fail occasionally. If you fell timber for any length of time, you have a bog-o-tricks just like everyone else. Your methodology may, or may, not be exactly like mine. If you fell timber for any length of time you have also had multiple EPIC FAILS - just like the rest of us. I imagine it is the same, or nearly the same, for most of the older guard - All the "best stuff" is in my head. No camera, GoPro, cinematographer handy. No witnesses at the time either. Or possibly just your partner. Although, the dangercat channel shows a little bit more of the dicey situations. I'm going to go with if you felled timber for any length of time, while becoming proficient at it, then there is minimal "auto-pilot" happening. Others have that aptitude as well. What I've found through viewing the videos after having filmed them is that it does look quite the same. Maybe that is the flattening out part. The perspective is noticeably different - depth of field is off. The scale is smaller. The ground looks much less steep as well. I get a maximum amount of GRACE exercised on my cranium. It's daily & continually. I do my best to follow suit. Reset button activated, lol.
Mr Brian hi. I've been known to be a bit of a smarty mouth at times. Around here we are politically incorrect. Merry Christmas to all in your camp. Belated of course. Thanks for watching.
Well here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, so what have you got to say for yourself this time. Some days it just be's that way, and some days it just gets worse But as long as you keep having days, it could always be worse than if one day was the last day. Peace n Harmony be with us all, and to all have a Merry New Year
Hello Sir Jack and Besty, from God's White Alaskan Earth. Thanks for the tips, I was wondering how you were going to take that spring after that log let loose, good job on leaving it for the machine to crack, what did you have 10" on that end? Do you guys harvest down to 10"? Well, you never let me down making a Christmas video, I guess this is my 3rd with you my friend. Thanks for the tips, tricks, and trips. Merry Christmas a few days late, I got my good book reading done for now so needed a saw video. Thank you. Happy New Year to you, your family and channel friends. Greatful from the Great land of the Mighty Griz.
Merry Christmas and thanks for the video. GoPro tends to flatten everything out. I'm not criticising, when I say I would've just put a rigging cut in that pecker pole if I felt it was too chancy to buck it. Take the pie cuts out of the butt end of the log and leave a good 2" hinge in the middle. It'll break clean when the rigging grabs it. Anyway, stay safe and thanks for the effort. Onward to 2023...
Notice how I stayed on the bole while bucking. Also, I reviewed with Mr. Ryder. He estimated that the tree was off the ground 8 to 10 feet. So unless you are really tall, reaching it from the ground "wooda" been a stretch. Getting a pie in the bottom is extra hard while standing on the bole. Relieving the stress on a vector that is not perpendicular to the sky will yield movement in the cuts sometimes. That would be bad juju here. I will use an undercut when one end, or both, is/are suspended or bowed heavily. I take the pie out of the second cut so that the trim in the most important log (buttcut) is not compromised. Also, I can (usually) just whizz a 2 to 4" cookie off the 2nd log since most often the wood pull is in that log. Sometimes when the wood is strong and the suspension is great, I will make the cut a few inches long on the butt log. I can then trim both cuts. I absolutely did NOT want the logs to be moving here. I did not want to risk having the fir top that was under this tree to be moving lest it slip off the stump above. I have a little Russian coupling (purposefully) in the buck itself. Again, this was in an attempt to get the cut crippled just enough so that it will break easily once the rigging crew starts the yank. It was also in an attempt to not have the cuts move while I was standing on the bole. Getting airborne into a brush hole sometimes = inpalement. I enjoy my wife's company... Seems as we each have our own way. Thanks for watching.
Man where is that 592 review I want that bench talk. We got 2 feet of snow in the Midwest man I can’t wait to move to the West Coast I am so sick of this cold weather I’m out of here this year
Use to have 10 gallons of fuel & 5 of bar oil on the landing come Monday morning. In '00 I was cutting around the lake - Trinity. Had a "baar" high-grade the bar oil. It later died. I cannot remember the number of jugs that were sampled starting from '81. A few saws were gnawed on too. They lick the sap under the redwood bark. Kill a lot of trees. In an effort to understand what all the fuss is about, I sampled some myself. Yepper,,, they have poor taste... Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Interesting to learn that it died. Think it was from the oil? The bar oil eatingest bear/s I dealt with were some sketchy creature/s. On two different occasions the skidder operator apparently saw a skinny black bear who was apparently eyeballing me (to my back) while I was in the cut. I think he was a very hungry boy. My GP100 started coming with me to work for the rest of that job... Thanks for the reply & the good videos, be safe.
And A Merry Christmas and blessings to all on this, HIS day, in 2022.
Amen.
Merry Christmas buddy
Nice! God bless!
Happy new year!
Scary bucking.
Have a great new year, for you and yours, plus your friends.
I should've said "take the pie out of the butt end of the second log." I figured you'd just automatically get that.
The way you do a rigging cut, is to take your cuts out of the sides of the tree, leaving a VERTICAL 2 - 3" HINGE in the middle, NOT out of the top and bottom, that would be disastrous.
I've done maybe a thousand of these, cutting on steep ground with felled trees spanning draws sometimes 30 - 40 plus feet from the ground.
One time, me and my partner backed up this sheer ridge with no place to stick a tree, side by side, using a Dutchman, sending tree after tree down the hill where they stacked up at the bottom until we had a pile and then we climbed down and bucked what we could and put rigging cuts in what we couldn't and then climbed back up the ridge and did it again and again until the slope was cleared. Believe me, I'm not going to do anything stupid standing on a 40" diameter Doug fir 30 feet above the ground spanning a sheer rock face.
It's always tough to get the message across with a keyboard. I could show you how, in the time it would take to make the cut... (grin)
Ok, here we go...
The " "I figured you'd just automatically get that. " is an assumption, on your part. I like to say what I mean and mean what I say. When I'm not succinct about what I'm doing along our shared ridgeline, ravine, bluff, creek, etc., etc., etc. that's when somebody gets killed or maimed.
I give the viewer the benefit of the doubt - that they can/will make cognitively accurate thought(s) (statements) strings of what they are trying to convey.
You make your rigging cuts a certain way based on your experience, in certain wood, in certain locations.
I make my rigging cuts a certain way as well. I might also have a rhino lip (Russian Coupling) in the mix, depending.
I wonder if you assume that you are one of the only ones that has worked on bad ground. Most of the older guys that fell out on the West Coast (COASTAL) before the advent of the slash 'n' dash method became common place, have been in places where they were on ropes, OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN. I could talk about the times where you cannot get your arm fully extended while standing on the hillside. Where one guy is holding on to the other's pants/belt while gnawing on 60 & 70" cuts. It's to late for some of the nuance while sawing on 8 and 10' redwood cuts. And, does it really matter?
Knowing how the wood behaves is paramount. I cut this unit alone. So, between the two of us, I know how the wood was holding, or not, in this area.
This tree ended up with deflection in the bole - read - loaded. Easily seen @ the 3:51 & 3:58 time stamps. The trees @ 4:12 & 4:23 are part of the reason why.
For review -At 6:03 I started in on the downhill side of the buck. (I ABSOULTELY did not want the two cuts to move while I was stand out there bucking. Mostly it is because the wood in this area breaks "phunny".) I cut the left side belly and side. I repositioned and cut the right side belly, up the side, and over the top. the result was an elliptical post in the center.
I've seen where the break in this strip will yield a ~ 4" post of wood pull in the center. It breaks quick and it's violent most often. So, not a lot warning.
For the casual viewer - It's also important to mention that the relief "pie" needs to be on the correct side or it does no good. Knowing how the yarding will happen is a consideration there.
Here we have a standard "rigging" cut. Nothing fancy, (sans any reliefs) because it is not required. Also, there is not much tree to play with.
I worked around an old timer back in the '70s in a couple of summers. He started falling right when powersaws came to be in the woods. Never saw him take any reliefs on his rigging cuts. Never saw where he slabbed up a bunch of peelers either.
I would never assume I've cut any place that is "worser" than the next personally. Or, that I'm better than the next faller.
You have your way & I have mine. Your methods worked for you. I was never fired for shoddy workmanship and I'm still alive.
Best of luck in the future.
@@hotsaws101 You've got the wrong read on me, but that's easy to do with keyboard chats. If you go back to the start, I said: "I'm not criticizing", and I wasn't. I was just saying what I would've done in that situation. No need to get your back up (if you are?) (damn computers) I'm a big fan and I know you can get in and out of the woods without needing my help. It was more like comparing notes. So, let's be friends, whaddaya say???
@@kingslew1866
Possibly. I've been wrong before. The lack of body language is not helpful either.
I've found that it is imperative for me to choose my words wisely. I have definitely misread what the viewer is trying to convey. More than a couple of times as well. So no offense, but the word choice appeared "on this end" as unfriendly fire. The, "hey have you ever consider this" seems to work well.
In light of comparing notes:
I was standing in the Husky shop in Weaverville in the spring of '00. It was a Saturday, mid-morning. This "faller" who claimed to be "certified" to work on fires was pontificating on his credentials & abilities. Through the ego assisted bragging session, I was told that I'm not of his stature in my falling prowess. That guy had absolutely no clue as to what I was, and/or am, capable of. What I've seen and done while on the end of a pistol grip. The size of wood I've felled. The kind of ground I've cut on and lived to tell. Whether or not I've worked on burns as well.
Now, why is that. Because he is one of those that cannot check his ego at the door.
After ~ 90 seconds, I just turned and walked away...
This channel has been operational since '08. The assumptive, presumption-ists, know more than everyone else-s, come and go. When someone is going to show me something, they assume that I am, at that point, incapable or unknowing. I use different techniques in different situations. I use variations of techniques in certain scenarios as well. I try and achieve a result on the timber. I fail occasionally. If you fell timber for any length of time, you have a bog-o-tricks just like everyone else. Your methodology may, or may, not be exactly like mine. If you fell timber for any length of time you have also had multiple EPIC FAILS - just like the rest of us.
I imagine it is the same, or nearly the same, for most of the older guard - All the "best stuff" is in my head. No camera, GoPro, cinematographer handy. No witnesses at the time either. Or possibly just your partner. Although, the dangercat channel shows a little bit more of the dicey situations.
I'm going to go with if you felled timber for any length of time, while becoming proficient at it, then there is minimal "auto-pilot" happening. Others have that aptitude as well.
What I've found through viewing the videos after having filmed them is that it does look quite the same. Maybe that is the flattening out part. The perspective is noticeably different - depth of field is off. The scale is smaller. The ground looks much less steep as well.
I get a maximum amount of GRACE exercised on my cranium. It's daily & continually. I do my best to follow suit.
Reset button activated, lol.
@@hotsaws101 It's all good! Don't worry about it...
Dangercat reference @6:57...beautiful fall and buck...Happy Holidays Mr. Jack...
Mr Brian hi.
I've been known to be a bit of a smarty mouth at times.
Around here we are politically incorrect. Merry Christmas to all in your camp. Belated of course.
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Makes me grin...no complaints here Mr. Jack....
I wanna play!
Well here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, so what have you got to say for yourself this time.
Some days it just be's that way, and some days it just gets worse
But as long as you keep having days, it could always be worse than if one day was the last day.
Peace n Harmony be with us all, and to all have a Merry New Year
Safety 3rd! Merry Christmas. I miss your vids!
Hello Sir Jack and Besty, from God's White Alaskan Earth. Thanks for the tips, I was wondering how you were going to take that spring after that log let loose, good job on leaving it for the machine to crack, what did you have 10" on that end? Do you guys harvest down to 10"? Well, you never let me down making a Christmas video, I guess this is my 3rd with you my friend.
Thanks for the tips, tricks, and trips.
Merry Christmas a few days late, I got my good book reading done for now so needed a saw video. Thank you.
Happy New Year to you, your family and channel friends. Greatful from the Great land of the Mighty Griz.
John hi.
It was 14"
No min or max. It's a spacing game in this strip.
Thanks for watching.
Merry Christmas sir
Merry Christmas Jack
Merry Christmas and thanks for the video. GoPro tends to flatten everything out. I'm not criticising, when I say I would've just put a rigging cut in that pecker pole if I felt it was too chancy to buck it. Take the pie cuts out of the butt end of the log and leave a good 2" hinge in the middle. It'll break clean when the rigging grabs it. Anyway, stay safe and thanks for the effort. Onward to 2023...
Notice how I stayed on the bole while bucking. Also, I reviewed with Mr. Ryder. He estimated that the tree was off the ground 8 to 10 feet. So unless you are really tall, reaching it from the ground "wooda" been a stretch.
Getting a pie in the bottom is extra hard while standing on the bole.
Relieving the stress on a vector that is not perpendicular to the sky will yield movement in the cuts sometimes. That would be bad juju here.
I will use an undercut when one end, or both, is/are suspended or bowed heavily.
I take the pie out of the second cut so that the trim in the most important log (buttcut) is not compromised.
Also, I can (usually) just whizz a 2 to 4" cookie off the 2nd log since most often the wood pull is in that log.
Sometimes when the wood is strong and the suspension is great, I will make the cut a few inches long on the butt log. I can then trim both cuts.
I absolutely did NOT want the logs to be moving here. I did not want to risk having the fir top that was under this tree to be moving lest it slip off the stump above.
I have a little Russian coupling (purposefully) in the buck itself.
Again, this was in an attempt to get the cut crippled just enough so that it will break easily once the rigging crew starts the yank. It was also in an attempt to not have the cuts move while I was standing on the bole.
Getting airborne into a brush hole sometimes = inpalement. I enjoy my wife's company...
Seems as we each have our own way.
Thanks for watching.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Hey Jack if you ever make it thro grants pass area look me up I got something for ya
😊💖🐶🐶🎅🌲
Merry Christmas my friend. ❤ from pnw oregon
How can I get in touch about building a saw
Email is the best, 1st point of contact.
Thanks for watching.
Marry Christmas Jack!!, I love those dogs whare can I buy a set
As the little kids says with excitement, "I made this".
Not at that point just yet.
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 always a pleasure to watch your work when your ready to sell a set lmk
Sap in general… not so good… merry Christmas faller n all yer kin
Man where is that 592 review I want that bench talk. We got 2 feet of snow in the Midwest man I can’t wait to move to the West Coast I am so sick of this cold weather I’m out of here this year
You want company. Trying to log in nwest wisconsin.Cant drop timber with heavy snow load on limbs. Instant death.
@@austindenotter19 not much different here in north idaho, snow loaded conifer trees, and fighting cold weather with broken felling wedges lol
Bears will eat bar oil, so, not to refined of a palate I guess.
Use to have 10 gallons of fuel & 5 of bar oil on the landing come Monday morning.
In '00 I was cutting around the lake - Trinity.
Had a "baar" high-grade the bar oil. It later died.
I cannot remember the number of jugs that were sampled starting from '81.
A few saws were gnawed on too.
They lick the sap under the redwood bark. Kill a lot of trees. In an effort to understand what all the fuss is about, I sampled some myself. Yepper,,, they have poor taste...
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Interesting to learn that it died. Think it was from the oil? The bar oil eatingest bear/s I dealt with were some sketchy creature/s. On two different occasions the skidder operator apparently saw a skinny black bear who was apparently eyeballing me (to my back) while I was in the cut. I think he was a very hungry boy.
My GP100 started coming with me to work for the rest of that job... Thanks for the reply & the good videos, be safe.