Confused student pilots & Aggressive/Helpful controllers!
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2024
- #aviation
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Student totally unprepared to solo outside of his home pattern.
Very professional all the way around. We have all been there and get through it.
"That's why I'm landing" is the best call ever.
Been there
Excellent job by controllers. No hostility in my opinion.
A little until he sounded scared
Back in the day, before there we ipads and flight planning software and what-not, my CFI made me copy out and draw a little map of my destination airport on to my flight planning sheet, together with any important landmarks for identification around the field. And the germane frequencies. And little dotted lines for traffic entry and patterns. I still have them somewhere. That way he knew I *did* familiarise myself and would have a pretty good idea what things looked like once I arrived.
My CFI still does. No iPads or electronics in the cockpit until AFTER the student does their long cross country solo. Even then, as an EFB only. GPS/Ownship disabled.
I am just glad that everyone is safe. Hopefully the pilots learned from their experience
"I'm a student pilot... I'm trying to understand all this." The time to understand is BEFORE you even request your initial taxi clearance. If he's having this much trouble with comms, then his instructor should have been flying around and having him work the radio so he could get more experience. In the pattern is NOT the time to be learning what he should already know.
Perhaps he did understand before he went out but I remember times when you get a bit stressed in new situations you don’t have the muscle memory to fall back on. Kudos to the guy for being brave enough to ask for some help rather than being a hero and smacking into someone else.
@@anthonycicero6102 Oh, it's completely obvious that he got behind the plane. Becoming task saturated is a definite risk and I've experienced that myself while trying to keep the plane straight and level, and on course in heavy turbulence. Even still, the fact that he is landing at a different airport indicates that he is doing his cross-country solo, in which case I would definitely expect him to be much more prepared.
You can chair fly all you want, but when you get out in the system everything can change fast. Admitting you are a student pilot and need help is absolutely appropriate. This way everyone knows you are prone to mistakes and to watch you closely. We’ve all been there. That being said, I would never recommend taking a Cessna into NY airspace as a student pilot. You have to know your limitations.
Pilots who received poor training! Many newly minted CFIs barely know how to fly themselves. Sad.
This!!! I'm a low hour PPL. One of the first things I noticed as a new pilot was how many other new pilots don't seem to know as much as I was required to learn. Thankfully, I had an old salty Naval pilot as my CFI. He knew I was a Marine and made sure to drill me like it was military instruction. He made it clear he was nitpicking everything I did even slightly incorrect. He wasn't overbearing or loud though. Just a stickler for every single action performed properly, no matter how small the action was. Best training ever, but it really got me scared when I realized later that not everyone has the same standards.
Something needs to be done about the way these CFI's approve new flyers. Too many are just in it to build their hours and nothing more.
@@ra2186 You had a good teacher. He wants to keep you alive. Good story.
Cool, I trained in Lakeland and was flying there the week before Sun and Fun when a buncbback.h of Runways close and the Mojdel Jets are flying (that is really weird). I can see the confusion and for a student pilot or any pilot there is a lot to handle.Great job by the controller in letting him do his touch and go and giving feedbacn (and there is on runway 90 they run from 1 ro 36 (magnetic heading which is why they can change numbers over time!) Many thanks for posting Flight Following, brought back great memories 🙂
DuPage was not aggressive. He was 100% appropriately stern and direct, giving him SOME level of appropriate instruction for the amount of disruption and risk of life he created. “Not familiar” is 100% inexcusable. There is a whole Internet of information available.
If only there were ways to fly this virtually before getting there... Oh wait, there are. Google Maps, FS2020, etc.
One must appreciate how confusing an airport with multiple runways oriented to different headings can look from the air. Even if you thoroughly brief it - it's not easy to find the correct runway, especially if you can't know in advance which one you're getting.
Adding the words “Student pilot solo” to the initial radio call would clear up the majority of confusion. I always drilled this habit into my students, as some are embarrassed to admit they are inexperienced over the radio. Doing this lets controllers know to give you some extra attention, and also that you may not be familiar with the airport or its local procedures or landmarks. The frustration from controllers comes from students or even newer licensed pilots reading back instructions that they are unsure of without asking for clarification, and then not doing them.
My instructor told me to do the same thing, but on my first solo outside of the pattern I was scolded by New York approach who told me I didn’t il need to say that and I was “killing him” lol
@@daktothefuture152 That’s New York approach for you…. I don’t see how it would be a pain for him unless you were saying student pilot solo on every radio call you make.
That's true, but the CFIs are at fault for sending their students to busy airports without proper instruction. Just a thought as others have alluded to: With the "CFI mills" out there now, with low-time CFIs teaching new CFIs, it's like making a copy of a copy over and over. None of them has any real experience at anything other than going through a syllabus. My guess is the DuPage student's CFI isn't that comfortable at a busy airport, either.
And is required on first comms to tower by law
Very professional
I had one guy whom is private rated and wanted a intro. Into Class C operations. After the flight, noting stuck, and it was way over his head. How did he even get the endorsement for the ticket?
No read back of hold short instructions for runway 10? Never come across a runway 90, lol😅
If you’re trying to understand it all, then your instructor has failed you
I feel this is cause and effect with the shortage of pilots a few years ago creating a mass of CFI's who only care about their own time and getting to the next level akin to a gold rush. That equates into inadequate instruction and these poor kids left to fend for themselves. Both controllers did an adequate job, but the first pilot will do better on his next leg as the controller helped reduce the stress level and get him back on the basics - Without muscle memory and pure seat of your pants, stress is the devils best friend.
"Thank you, sir"
"Sorry for fucking up your pattern, sir"
"Sir tower, Cleared to land, sir, thank you, sir"
🤦🏻♂️
I think the second controller could have done a better job but it really comes down to the CFI and pilot.
Apparently. neither of these newbies did any flight planning or familiarization for these airports. Doesn't say much for their training. Controllers turned out to be saints and life savers.
I blame this lack of preparation on the instructors. Instructors should be preparing a student for these things: controlled airspace/tower communication, copying instructions, basic situational awareness, etc. And students should be seeking out that instruction. I was taught to seek out as much information as possible on my intended destination, alternates, and even likely emergency/other landing sites BEFORE a flight - stuff like TPAs, normal traffic patterns, weather, runways in use, etc etc. Especially with all the information available for free out there today, there's no excuse for this kind of lack of preparation.
I guarantee the second guy doesn't even have a solo sign off, not to mention a PPL. He had no idea what "Hold Short" meant nor the significance of repeating it back. Someone from the FAA should've had a visit with him.
Fire the CFI for that endorsement and the poor training that may have gone with it. Controller mentioned to go “south of the airport” a little too late for this guy’s understanding of airspace.
Who is this student's instructor? They have to know this guy isn't ready yet to be out on his own. I understand being a student is really hard, but shouldn't use the excuse of "unfamiliar with this airport" when that should have be thoroughly resolved before taking off. Don't take off until you can draw the whole airport runway structure and traffic patterns for each. As a student pilot, you are going to need much more time in preflight planning than an experienced pilot, so do the work until things become easy.
However, at the end of the day, the controllers did a great job getting him down safely before a disaster occurs. That's the most important thing. I'm sure this student is going to learn these airports cold now before doing this again.
Telling a student that he had to do lots of turns to because he has to accommodate someone THAT MADE A MISS APPROACH'.. Sure that is not confusing for me. Who cares why ..
Controller is NOT a pilot!
@7:28 - 7:30 Yup, that's a guy I wouldn't want in the tower in an emergency. Please tell me he's looking for work now.