Warframe: Could This Revive The Loki Master Race? Loki's Upcoming Changes & Augment
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2024
- How would you change a frame but keep its identity?
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Rather than shapeshifting, he could have something like a copy ability that gives you a new ability or passive based on who you copy from: Copy an eximus and you get their aura as a toggleable ability, copy a warframe and you get their progenitor element as an extra status effect on attacks, copy decoy and you get increased movement/parkour speed. There's so many possibilities.
Yes!!!
You just described Maui.
Idk why but Kakashi popped up in my head when u said that
Remove Invisibility, make it to where he disguises himself as any enemy you finisher. He retains his stealth, maybe gets a bonus like you're suggesting, and it frees up an ability slot
@@shauntempley9757The island?
I dont think he has to become a nuke for a rework to actually work, he is a trickster, so maybe some give him a way to spread some rad to confuse enemies or make his decoy spread a lot of decoys that when killed give him a buff or debuff to enemies, like, the concept of Loki the god of mischief i think its very lackluster on our little invisible boy
The irradiating disarm augment disarms all enemies and confuses them in to attacking each other already.
Feel like Voruna’s kit would’ve been pretty good for Loki, with a few tweaks ofc
@@junkandcrapamen enemies have roughly half a million ehp while they only do like 10 damage to each other
Irradiating Disarm, Saviour Decoy, and hushed invisibility should just be a part of his base kit at this point
@@junkandcrapamen its an augment + not a very good one
I'd have a couple of changes for Loki, not a full rework, but more of a QOL overview: Give him Stalker's passive so that he actually has a decent passive, Decoy should spawn at least 10-15 clones in an area that are invincible, so it actually becomes a decent CC ability and the clones don't die immediately, Switch Teleport should give a target a Radiation Proc and make them a priority target to enemies so it isn't completely useless, and Radial Disarm should just have it's augment as base kit. There's not much to change with Invisibility because it's good enough as is.
It should not be base kit, enemies funneling in is a good thing and them staying spread beating each other sometimes would be another problem.
"Decoy should spawn 10-15 clones" lmao
His decoy having a health bar was one of the biggest crimes ever. It's supposed to be an illusion. I can understand nullifiers getting rid of decoys, but normal attacks should not do anything.
Decoy is a priority target. It has as big an aggro as literal defense objectives. With safeguard switch, it's also invincible. You gotta learn the god before you make rework suggestions.
I really like the idea of having switch teleport mark an enemy as a priority target, that sounds fun
I can totally see like him having like "Eximus" modes to be more "shape shifty". With the innate status immunity, let him occasionally do big fire AOEs, Spread energy regen, Healing. etc,
IF that sounds op, just add (reasonable) cooldowns on each one.
Loki was my 1st frame back when when he was one of the new player choices, as such, whenever I feed a frame to the helmith i auto default back to him and feel all nostalgic :)
Wrap swap teleport into decoy by giving decoy a hold cast that moves you to the target location and places a decoy where you were, essentially the same as placing the decoy then swapping. Keeps the only actual useful thing you'd do with swap teleport and opens up an ability slot.
Additionally would also enjoy if unalerted enemies didn't go into full alert when they saw a decoy so you could use it/swap teleport in more cases in stealth.
I think the only other changes I'd make would be something to make his base decoy last a bit longer so I don't have to stuff it into a corner, and make radial disarm work on more enemies, at least in some way. I understand stronger enemies not being permanently stripped of their weapons, but temporarily debuffing them should be fair right?
As for the new ability slot, I'm not sure, really. Something that deals damage would not feel right on Loki, I see his kit as abilities designed to enable evasion that just so happens to also double up as good combat tools.
I think giving him defense stripping abilities is playing into his role as a trickster. I agree with Pablo that he absolutely shouldn't be doing damage but if his radial disarm did something fun like armor stripping, disabling nullifier bubbles, or even stripping shields, That would be enough to make him decent, And I can't think of anything more trickstery then leaving your enemies naked while you stand invisibly behind them.
If you throw a decent number on that new decoy mod, you actually would have a decent potential of making him a semi nuke against the enemies he's armor stripped
Could apply Silence’s effect since what’s more tricky than denying an Eximus/enemy unit their main gimmick?
@@tlkfanrwbyfan8716 see, I would just subsume silence. Lol
@@effendoor7841 In terms of fixing Loki, that doesn’t help. Let his 4 apply silence naturally or via augment. If any frame should stop units from doing their job, it should be the one based on the god of trickery and mischief. Plus, no-one realistically will use Silence besides Ash players, MAYBE Limbo players (I sure as hell don’t though) and Banshee is in just as poor a place as Loki so she doesn’t use it either, plus her passive already silences.
No. We have enough defense strips. Why does every frame need this?! Makin the game so boring that way as you never come up with ways to do things anymore, just one button omni strip/buffs it seems. NO THOUGHT PUT INTO IT.
Change his passive to be 'Enemies unaware of Loki damaged by his weapons have their shields and armor removed'. They can be aware of other players, they can be alerted, but if they aren't aware of the Loki specifically, all sources of weapon damage he outputs now fullstrip on first hit. Catches you unaware, leaves you in your underwear, etc. I've kinda been a hater since like 2018 insisting that Loki's been one of the worst frames in the game, but I think if you did this, you genuinely wouldn't even need to change his kit because that's just how important armor stripping is nowadays. If you bring him with an AoE weapon, Silence subsumed over Switch Teleport to turn off eximus abilities, and mash go on Radial Disarm, every enemy is a level 5 Butcher.
The most I'm concerned about is that this would still be just... really boring. Like, you're taking away the enemies' ability to do interesting things or even shoot you without doing anything visually special or spectacular. But then again, if there's people still playing Loki in 2024, they don't care about that, and it's okay if the frame's just not for me, so Oh Well.
Actually from the loki enemy copy stuff it would be pretty niche but they could give him something akin to the one hound ability where he could steal eximus passives or something
Invisibility used to be Loki's specialty. With other frames getting invisibility, updating his invisibility into a shape shift works thematically better. Advantage of shapeshift over invisibility, is that enemies stop attacking you entirely (enemies still attack last known location of invisible enemies). Upon attacking an enemy, give a few seconds before enemies can aggro you (as if they are confused at what just happened). Until you shapeshift again.
Functionally similar to invisibility, but just slightly buffed with a bit of additional survivability.
That should also allow you to pass through the security lasers and doors if you're the right enemy type.
Maybe they could make it so that he has 5 or 6 possible "shapes" to choose from and you can slot in any enemy you've scanned.
Loki is still best on speed, duration etc.
I'd definitely like to see the disarm augment get a defense strip. With that and the decoy change I think its enough to make him more relevant. I hope Banshee gets the same treatment soon. Her silence needs to be recastable and the 1 and 4 need more substantial changes. Would be nice to see sound quake give you invincibility in the animation lock and shields per hit, could be a nice fix for her survivability issues without any major overhaul to the ability. Valkyrs 1 and especially 3 need some love too.
i'm glad pablo understands the need to keep a frame's identity, i've never used loki yet but i think there are good ways to compromise (like with grendel, i miss eating entire rooms but his new version feels much smoother to play)
I really hope his new changes make him something I might want to play. Loki Prime was my very, very first Prime Warframe back when he was first released in 2014. Before all the movement reworks, before even Argon Scope I think. Just farming for parts that would drop randomly in Void missions. I used him to get the top score in my Dojo's parkour course, and I was the first of my clan to get a sub 20 second time using Loki because at the time he had the highest base sprint speed.
I really hope he gets a rework, since because of the account merging, I have access to my old as dirt Loki Prime who I haven't used since the days when players used upgrade cores instead of endo. Fancy him up and bring that bad boy into the limelight with the heavy-hitters.
The problem with Loki (& Ivara) is since Wu-Kong got out. Wu Kong just made spy mission and many others so easy that nobody was using Loki anymore except for one or two things like Sabotage to get the secret stashes (Loki and a pair of ears do the trick). So maybe it's not the frame that is the problem, maybe it's because Loki has no specific mission associated with it.
I still prefer Ivara for spy missions over Monke
Yeah I'm going with Ivara with you missions. I was able to pop in faster than anyone without triggering alarms and get the target while the others are trying not to trigger the lasers or cameras.
@@christophersharp2212 Hmmm... Maybe you end up in public games in which most of the squad have no clue. With Wu-kong used by a player that has ... eyes... You just can't compete in terms of performances (time, alarms, etc) in any spy mission.
I think it comes back to warframe losing sight of what it used to be. Frames from the first build of the game have been left behind a bit.
0:25 not always.
sometimes killing the enemies just gives them the opportunity to spawn somewhere further away out of your reach where they can just plink at you causing mild frustrations or at worst unavoidable failure.
Sometimes you can also accidentally de-synchronize the AI and they start split pushing 3 interception points at once or whatever have you.
When the type of mission allows for it, I just find it as less frustration to exercise the ability to just lock them all down in a corner to suffer for a bit. Rather than giving them an easy way back to the respawn rooms where I then need to dump more ammo and effort into them when they walk back or something worse could comes out. Like an eximus snake in murmur missions or a corpus ship swoops down and blows your coildrive to hell cause they needed more guys to come in on the vallis.
Because murder is so much pushed as the solution to everything in warframe now it's sorta lost it's thrill to me after 33.9 MR levels... not that I don't deal damage, do understand. I have the tools to steamroll everything, if I really wanted to, but controlling rather than killing just feels more empowering for some reason and I like using different things.
Yes. I'm a loki main. But I had no idea there was a whole master race of them behind me. This is news to me.
2:15 don't touch my boy. :< he's still a king of his own little invisible world.
3:05 so narrow minded. I find Loki works best with overextended.
[if you want to read a suggestion rant, heres one.]
As for "changes" I don't think a lot needs to change at all. it only needs to have some "new age sprinkles" dusted on top to promote interesting gameplay. Rather than samey gameplay.
Like say decoy, If placed on the ground, spawn a normal loki decoy, the decoy should have loki's own stats then scaled to the enemy level of those who are near enough to hear it on spawn, if theres no enemies near, it's just a level 1 decoy.
If cast directly on a foe they instead have a decoy image projected over them (like nyx projecting nyx copies onto enemy's faces) making it look like THEY are loki, like the update will be. Then let the decoy store damage and status instead of immediately reflecting. When it times out, the damage the projection has is used up or a new one is created old clones are detonated dealing their stored damage back like a defy.
Make a "savior" decoy and call it "Star of the Show" or "Trickster's Spotlight" instead now be able to place decoy onto allies for a reduced time period. But the ally is invulnerable while the decoy is on them, the decoys health being the allies health scaled to enemy level. Eventually it detonates and staggers everyone nearby the ally as usual. So loki can enjoy aggro being taken off him for his passive (which I make up later). And a tanky ally who instead would actually enjoy enemies focused all on them so they can ply their trade can have their spotlight and still be safe when the decoy detonates cause of the staggering blast.
Invis, is mostly about repositioning and remaining unseen. Make it so that over a short time up to a cap when you're not shooting with it you're building up a damage boost which quickly decays when you start firing but builds up again allowing him to very effectively use heavily damaging weapons to D E L E T E. in deliberate moderation (like when they're all disarmed and focusing on your decoy in a clump)
Swap could have some invulnerability folded into it by default given to an ally when swapping them or on self if cast on an enemy along with the speed boost (no invuln for swapping with free standing decoy but works on enemy possessed decoy).
Also the ability for a hold cast perhaps where when used it places a decoy onto the foe immediately and swaps instantly transferring any aggro focused on you directly to the enemy you now replaced into your position.
A unique passive idea could be that loki still maintains his ability to cling to walls longer, but also gains the natural ability to just flat out ignore a percentage of enemy defenses while the enemy is not focused on him. Around 25%, so say, damage passes through shields dealing damage to the enemy underneath with corresponding damage values (except vs bosses?).
While effects and damage from him act as if the enemy has 25% less armor at all times so a full strip isn't strictly neccessary.
Another alternative could be short time damage boosts when doing parkour moves to accentuate movement and evasion into his kit or alternatively, in his frame/ability diorama he's shown backstabbing a guy, the ability to finisher anyone who's not aggro'd directly on him or who is affected by decoy could be a fun take also.
You could now use finishers on your decoy or their distracted allies to pick off deadly targets, but also to brutally announce yourself through your decoy's damage explosion to your enemies before skippity hopping away again.
Radial disarm could use some status application onto enemies? drawn from your melee perhaps? or if it should be set to prevent shenanigans from silly setups: atleast some a large bundle of puncture and blast procs scaled by duration to nerf their damage and accuracy and render higher crit chance upon the now semi-defenseless enemies, especially the ones who don't strictly lose their weapons like liches or eximus etc. Making it both an ai break/pseudo grouping tool for those it works on cause melee types just run at you, but also an enemy debuffer/primer skill.
Weapons that get stripped should explode in the enemy's hands visually which could be fun, possibly with a supportive effect where detonated weapons can sometimes drop ammo? enemies already stripped should get knocked down like the infested do so you can ground finisher them leaving the irradiating disarm to add it's rad proc (but make it x10 so their damage is amplifies to each other as rad procs do).
I'd like the kit to remain mostly the same, but just be more spicy to help keep up with the times.
Haven't played in a real long time but I've always had this idea for loki:
Have Lokis bullet jumping on enemies have a 80% chance to jam their weapons.
1. Have decoy work like a molt in terms of scaling however its shots could cause small stuns.
Leave 2 as is.
3. Switching with enemies briefly jam their weapons like mags augment.
4 could take the amount of enemies disarmed and use it to arm decoy, or to increase lokis damage output
4 should not only switch you with enemies and disarm them but have a burst aoe that disarms enemies around the switched targets starting location also it should disarm eximus units so your 4 can aoe a huge area to disarm but to disarm a an eximus you have to target them.
I would change the passive and that's it. DE is already making changes to his decoy so it scales and the new augment will make him way better.
Yt isn’t gonna like that title
Uh ohhh
He's Irish and may not familiar with NA region regarding that "term". Going to assume not intentional or with "that" connotation in mind.
@@alchemystn2o bro completely forgot what Germans called themselves in the 1940’s.
@@alchemystn2o >assuming it's a NA exclusive issue
Kek
@@Clown_the_Clown my bad. You're right. NA is not the center of the universe. My narrow minded got the best of me.
I'm very fond of helminthing kullervos ability over Lokis switch teleport. It's an initially minor change that can really up his ante with that crit buff.
Loki with a radial disarm (+augment) build is a very fun support build for SP circuits. (Imho)
Short circuit defenses sounds fun - link defense(including overguard) with HP so damaging one does equal damage on the other.
Like for example after damage reduction calculation of armor a heavy gunner gets 100 damage and it makes 100 armor points disappear.
Or removing 1000 armor from that heavy gunner with corrosive will also deal 1000 damage to health directly.
Or a corpus unit gets 100 points of damage on health from toxin and that 100 points are also removed from shields.
I totally love your idea by the way. I was think giving him something like the mods to do increase damage to enemy type as a possibility would work
I honestly LOVE loki, he's been my favourite frame lately, so I would have one suggestion,
Combine his 1st with 4th, make the decoy be casted on an enemy and everyone around should be forced to attack it, once it is dead the 4th ability should be casted from them
(With the confusion augment)
Giving our trickster a powerful trick, he can use it to focus fire on strong enemies and keep him safe for a longer duration, and they will have the room to slap another ability for his 1st,
And change the passive ofc
4:50 I was thinking exactly the same thing
That would be so cool.
Passive: grants +50% evasion to loki and -50% action speed to nearby enemies for 2 seconds when using an ability. (numbers probably need tweaking for balance)
Decoy: Summons two specter copies of loki, each wielding a copy of which ever weapon you do not have out at the time of summoning (so with melee out you get a primary and secondary clone) if you aren't using a specific weapon, then the clones spawn with an augmented braton, skana, or lato. Clones damage depends on strength, and duration affects skill duration, maybe hp. Clones draw aggro.
Switch Teleport: Swaps places with target. If friend no other ill effects, if foe stuns and applies Loki's passive to it. If switch teleport is used on a clone, it causes a knockdown status in the area around the clone and Loki, and heals the clone of some of its health and extends its duration a little. Strength affects stun duration and clone health gained.
Invisibility: fine as is.
Radial Disarm: not sure how to change this one, or if it does need changing. Permadisarm on alot of enemies can be powerful. Maybe Power strength can knock off a percentage of armor and shields (nonstacking) for a short duration?
Nah, that transforming ability sounds so good. I want it now to replace switch teleport. Like it doesn't have to be transforming into what enemy you cast it on, just transform into 1 type of enemy depending on what tileset you're on. And with that, you can maybe bypass lasers and defense systems. That would be awesome. Still niche but way more useful than switch teleport. Limits your movement but you don't aggro enemies.
Another thing I think they should consider is how the Irradiating Disarm augment confuses enemies into shooting one another. Which sounds like it doesn't really have synergy with Decoy if it's supposed to draw attention. I'm not sure about armor strip though. I know it's great. But just about every other frame is starting to armor strip now. We can slap Terrify into any frame anyway he doesn't really need it.
For the passive, maybe they should just add some strong buff for wall-latching like crit damage, force silence weapons, or whatever, on top of that wall-latch duration.
it would be cool to blend in as any enemy you cast the ability on to change you to look like the enemy
enemys woudent attack you and cameras woudent go off because you would look to be on there side
This is kind of close to a change I've suggested for Loki for a while now
Basically make decoy scale on level and add an augment that turns decoy into a turret of sorts that gains damage based on the number of guns you take with Loki's 4.
It gives a better use to his 2 and also allows Loki to have at least one form of DPS so he isn't as reliant on allies
just make loki's decoy fire your selected weapon like the equinox' augment, that could give him some viability
I like the decoy augment but I also want the shapeshift thing to be a switch teleport augment where an enemiy you target with it gets possessed by you and if it dies you return to your og spot but it gets lokis defense related stats added to it but you get to use its moveset and pressing switch teleport again lets you come out of the enemy same way temno comes out of the warframe like a portal.
Passive changed to drop a decoy when you're suppose to die and you become invulnerable for a few sec. CD of like 1-3 min.
Decoy launches more than one and they're invincible.
Radial disarm should armor/def strip as well you mentioned potato.
@@alexanderdvanbalderen9803 or at least automatic level scaling so they don't automatically die.
how about an enshrounding mist for Loki?
If u slap his first and third ability together, ( tap for a dekoy, hold to swith places with it or an ally) you would have room for a new ability on his third slot.
Let loki emit a cold mist, lowering accuracy of enemies and blocking their sightlines, maybe deaffen all sound within the mist? This Mist could be used to give allys a form of invisibility as long as they are with in the mist.
Loki coul leaf a trail like Nezha, but wider with cold procs.
The mist could also boost the duration of his invisibilty.
Or you could make it a channel ablitily like Ivaras, but the mist reduces the drain.
The disarm ability could also work with his new third. Like higer range, an aditional stun effect. (Cause of the reflections in the cold particles from the mist)
I think he has potential as some sort of debuffer.
Turning an enemy into a decoy that reflects damage and can apply statuses is good.
Switch teleport could have some sort of detonation that debuffs or if you want to go the extra mile could honestly combine Switch teleport and decoy into a tap hold ability turning whatever you swap with into a decoy/just making a decoy.
I also like the idea of an evasion passive.
I feel like the best case scenario would be fusing switch teleport and decoy into one like what they did with vauban and giving him a new passive and utility skill
I haven't used him since I got back (so much to catch up on...just got Wisp P going today...Wisp is even better than I remembered!), but I used to use him a fair bit. Not just for spy missions or captures, either. He was a always a "silencer" mod (his invis aug, for example) away from being super deadly with an amprex or ignis. I'm never going to be a level cap guy, but I really like the idea of subsuming "silence" onto him just for the lulz.
I think bringing his kit up to the current standards could pretty much start by integrating some (most?) of his augments into the main abilities. Then you could start doing some other fun things, like it'd be neat to have a decoy aug that turns it into a small area confuse around the decoy; imagine the decoy animating, mimicking fighting, with the enemies nearby all shooting each other in the confusion (mostly like how they would fighting us if mobs had friendly fire turned on). Then there'd be room to give some armour strip to disarm, maybe give switch teleport a "melee instead of switching" aug (finisher to unalerted enemies; tap to go to target and hold to teleport target to Loki), or some other fun chaos causing abilities.
Loki was my very first frame, back when he was a starter frame. His invisibility allowed me to survive alot of the then high level content. Decoy and Radial Disarm allowed for better survivablity, and Switch Teleport granted, at the time, superior mobility and the chance to troll other players by swaping places with them.
I'd keep his Invis and ST as those are part of his identity.
Decoy could be made a press for the standard cast or hold for a specter version that runs around drawing fire, with the same durability of the standard cast of course.
Radial Disarm could be reworked into something new and after reading about the Norse Loki, I could see his taking on the guise of an enemy or ally. But like Tactical Potato said, this would be tricky to program
IDK. Honestly if his augments were just integrated, he'd be pretty set. Maybe, and this is wishlist, his 4th should affect enemy overguard or nullifiers, or (shock, horror) both. Maybe giving some overguard based on such to his allies.
Also everybody shitting on switch teleport but the augment for it is the one thing lets him survive eximi in steel path lmao
I think a really neat change for Loki would be to make his disarm add a scalable damage multiplier to enemies affected by it, cause it could make for a really cool weapon platform
Well, i'd do these things:
Passive: Deal +50% weapondamage when attacking enemies from behind.
Decoy: Let us remove it on recast. Maybe have a utility-explosion on its death/removal, like a blinding effect or similar.
Invisibility: Let us remove it on recast. Its augment could also add weapon status chance, perhaps? That, or make it boost the suggested passive effect further.
Switch Teleport: Holdcast to autoswitch with Decoy. Give it some fitting debuff on enemies (a contagious radiation-proc, explode on death or sneaky stuff like that), and/or make it place a tether on the enemy/decoy to group up enemies that get close.
Its augment could cause a radial damage-share a la Kullervo, but maybe only from ENEMY damage dealt?
Disarm: Make it silence enemies and give them a debuff which causes any damage they deal to be dealt to themselves too, HIGHLY multiplied.
Fem Loki clip was a blast from the past
We Loki mains will rise once more
Personally, I like to use Loki on Grinner Railjack missions. Invisibility has _just_ enough duration that you can board a grineer ship, rush the core, hack it, blow it up, and get out on a cast or two... not to mention being able to trivialize the 'assassination' and 'Sabotage' sections on longer ships where you can just bypass all the enemies except the captain. He makes a _fantastic_ marine. Also, Radial Disarm is great to use when leveling new weapons (for those _under_ MR30) since it renders most enemies mostly harmless as long as you move around a little. Speaking of, Radial Disarm also works well in Railjack as an anti-boarding ability... get enough radius and regardless of if you can see 'em or not, every enemy on the ship is down to knives and fists.
My Loki rework short version: combine decoy and teleport to 1
And get new 3 lethal illusion :
Enemy appreas as Loki to its allies and deals more damage with forced slash to them, while loki appears as enemy to them, as long as Loki doesn't attack enemies the illusion holds and the enemy gains damage to explode on death or Loki breaking illusion.
that shapeshift could be awesome, great idea, love it
edit: once pmed that silenced weaps while invis should also be silenced for enemies and they turned that to an augument lol
I think an idea for buffing loki is for him to make it so his switch teleport can make it so he switches appearances with another enemy then make it so his 1 can create a clone of what he switch teleported into but to keep it from breaking the game, the moment he does anything that a normal enemy doesn't his appearance change breaks. This would allow him to not only keep his identity but still become extremely utility based while also becoming slightly more viable. Since the only cc that still works on all enemies are taunts. Which he can taunt other enemies onto a specific target to this way.
I still love using him in the Circuit.
( i have Ensnare on his Switch Teleport)
Maybe loki's passive could be changed to how covert lethality used to be (being leathal damage instead of bonus finisher damage). His 3 could be made, so when the crosshair is not pointed at anything he can switch with, it will default to his clone, causing a fairly small radial disarm at both locations after switching spots. For the shape-shifting idea, you can do something similar to nyx's chaos and have a hologram of some sort representing his shifted form.
Make radial disarm explode the weapons for damage that scales. That, along with the other changes should get him up to speed.
What they could do with your shape shift idea is replace hie decoy make it a toggle abillity 1st toggle is a loki clone ally and then toggled version allows the clone to shape-shift into any active enemie you targeted
Imo some of the changes they can make without entirely changing is kit is buff switch teleport by adding Kullvero's wrathful advance by letting people teleport normally and just add the movement speed bonus to switching with an enemy rather then normal teleporting so we have both options, Radial Disarm damage type needs to change from impact to magnetic and blast with a guaranteed proc of magnetic and blast since blast makes enemies more inaccurate and magnetic disable recharge which is sorta a trickster thing to do to screw with everyone's stuff and it will keep radiating disarm's radiation proc to remain relevant as well as basically letting Loki's 4 become a primer by itself. Lastly change Loki's passive which is a little steal from Hydroid increase the effectiveness of blast inaccuracy bonus from 30% to 50% so enemies affected by blast from Loki are even less accurate and let it stack up to 100% at 10 procs so essentially everyone gets evasion but it would be impossible to get 10 procs from just his 4 alone so if he wants 10 stacks he would have to mod for it.
Maybe Radial Disarm could also work like Hounds Null Audit? Steal half of overguard and apply eximus aura on yourself (or allies)
>decoy does damage, he gets 5
>switch teleport just becomes a teleport. target enemy, switch with them
>Invis becomes channeled
>delete disarm, replace with something
That change into enemy types idea would be amazing!!! An infested healer, heavy gunner and the corpus nullifier…he can play aggressive defensive and support.
They could lean into more of the mythology for a rework I think. Being an opportunist, the passive could be like what Stalker has in the duviri circuit. Gaining a big buff against enemies not targeting him. Or having an option cycle to the decoy to Summon more distractions, a kubrow and maybe an orowyrmling in reference to fenrir and jormungandr being his children. Hel was also his child so maybe a passive granting a buff every handful of kills, sending her souls. If a nuke option is really needed, maybe an entire phantasmal orowyrm glides through the area and spreads status
Ever since Helminth, Loki has always been like a Swiss Army knife to me. One of my builds is like a speed hack build. I subsumed perspicacity over '3', and then just throw on your favorite duration and movement mods. Highly suggest at least one (maybe two) casting speed archon shard or maybe even Natural Talent but I didn't want to give up any mod slots for it. My other two builds have rest & rage, and banish. Anyway just wanted to share what I've done. My creative thinking skills have not come up with as good of ideas as others in the comments.
I feel like I agree with Pablo, i feel like it’s okay to have some frames who maybe aren’t SSS+ tier but are still unique and keep their niche
Decoy with health scaling (or the augment enemy control version) is a very solid CC. And Taunts ignore overguard so thats already a one up. (Albeit, a shared space with Gara, Titania, and Octavia (though Octavias is subject to the random whims of the rollerball).
Switch as a movement buff isn't terrible. Though it'd be better if Switch made the switched enemy a decoy.
Invisibility is always going to be pretty powerful even just as a damage buff (and avoid everything but AoE fire at team mates). And Loki does still have the simple and consistent form with higher duration, no buton mashing and no movement restrictions.
Disarm isn't ineffective, but it does have the most obvious power creep. Loki's ult can be done by a non-ult from Xaku and that one does become a DPS machine by doing so. Also the Hounds can do it as well though thats a bit of a side comparison (and subject to AI whimsy-flimsy with positioning and triggering it)
Odd Pablo commentary, while I 100% agree. Thats exactly what they did with Hydroid, and 50-70% of Grendel and upcoming Inaros.
I would be excited about him becoming another good melee platform, but I really like your idea about a defense strip
Loki's always the frame I take when I need to do some annoying Riven challenge, you'd be surprised how many of those are much easier with Loki's specific toolkit. Do agree he needs a bit more.
All I hope for is that the decoy and switch teleport tech stays in his kit. It’s so satisfying to do in Corpus spy mission to bypass the lasers.
I miss old days of disarming during defense missions. Loved watching enemies run in to melee while other squad members could take advantage of the disarm. But then again I am partial to more of support style in games so it fit for me.
I like the idea of having him able to swap factions to use those faction damage mods and maybe copy what the faction is good at like corpus giving shields grineer having more armor the infested being immune to certain statuses and so on
Loki my first love. I don't believe you have the option now but before from CBT one of the starter choices was Loki and as a rogue/spy/stealth player in most games I just had to pick Loki and never looked back. Can't wait for his rework.
I've had some thoughts on Loki before, as he is a surprisingly fun frame to just goof around with. both Loki and Limbo kinda have this same thing. with Loki, I just wanna toss out some musings I've had before with him. here we go:
my primary direction with Loki is going into the trickster side by playing heavily with radiation damage, specifically the confusion status proc.
Passive: the status effect of Radiation, confusion, applied by Loki lasts longer (anywhere from 100% to 300%, based on balancing). Enemies affected by confusion treat Loki as friendly.
Decoy: I actually like the new direction of it, so do that, but have it deal rad damage with a high status proc chance to those that strike the decoy. give the decoy absolute priority aggro, that way it doesn't conflict with confusion procs.
S.Teleport: I like the new QoL it's getting. my personal addition would be to have it either splash rad damage around Loki from where he ports from or have the enemy he ports be confused on arrival, turning them into a sudo-decoy. other than that, don't really know what else to do with this one other than removing it entirely for something else.
Invisibility: honestly, this one is fine as is. the only thing I'd personally like to see is either increase its base duration or give a way to renew its duration.
Radial Disarm: keep as is, however, bake the augement into the base effect. for balance, have it be a 50/50 chance to proc confusion rather than guaranteed.
new augement: enemies killed while affected by RD give Loki a stacking buff for 15 or 20 seconds. the buff can be whatever flavor, most likely crit chance/damage. have it stack to either 5 or 10, depending on balance. this is not meant to be SUPER strong, but adds some extra spice to Loki for using his RD. I've also thought of having the augement add time to his Invisiblility when killing enemies affected by RD instead as well.
as for the problem of some of some enemy types being immune to RD, I think I might have an idea for that as well. to keep decoy relevant and not just feel like a lesser copy of confusion, give it the ability to ignore all defenses. make it into the ability used for turning key targets into bullet sponges. I mostly wanted to keep Loki as close as he is but spice him up just a little bit to have some synergy and to replace that godawful passive to something that would feel more Loki-like. the idea of him just turning a bunch of enemies into friendlies and watching as they slap-box each other makes me laugh. these are just my silly musings, but I'd love to see if anyone else likes any of these ideas.
A good passive would be increased damage to opponents hit in the back or back finisher.
First ability granting him the ability to use his 2nd ability to turn into that mob he just 1'd. That alone would make him really fun to play AND follow the Loki theme.
I think his decoy should become the same as archon amar decoy with a bit of reflective damage akin to gara spectrosphion but maybe not as high. Switch teleport should instead of one enemy take maybe the 3 facing you and just swap your position with that mini squad. And i agree his forth could be a defence strip or a radial version of revenants 1st to get more enimies with youre area as friendlies.
Loki should be a shapeshifting warframe that assassinates targets, which is one trickster myth done, since he is famous for that.
That leaves Wukong as the second one, that uses decoys tactically, like his mythological namesake is famous for.
The only trickster concept left for warframe to utilise in the future left from mythology, is the warrior hybrid that Maui is.
Moana is the film that depicts what Maui does as an offensive idea of what a shapeshifting trickster warframe could do.
0:14 Tater, wtf man?! I wasn't expecting that lmao. Great job and great job with the video as a whole.
It would be neat if Loki got invis while rolling as a passive in a similar vein to how wisp goes invisible in the air, a thematically fitting way for Loki to disengage and divert attention. For his decoy, maybe it could disarm enemies that attack it alongside scaling with enemies to make it more survivable as a whole.
In Norse Loki is also considered a god of fire. Ik there are already frames like ember, but maybe make it an ability that gives you heat damage or something, that can then be changed to radiation dmg if your weapons are using electricity. That it would give you the ability to cause confusion, but also allow you to just use say electricity? Obviously wouldn't want something like ember or anything super crazy like completely shapeshifting.
Passive: Status immunity while Invis. Let the decoy absorb damage and explode based on damage absorbed so it scales with enemies. Make his teleport just Stalker's version except you can actually mod around it etc. I think that's really all he'd ever need.
I tend to agree with Pablo on this one. Invisibility and Disarm trivialize most content, Decoy being usable now provides something like a grouping tool, Teleport is still super niche, but it's an easy slot for whatever Helminth you might be interested in.
Loki isn't a super soldier death blender, but if you're interested in weapons he is a strong, defensive consideration.
Switch Teleport should yoink anyone within range with him, leaving you and everyone nearby on cast where the targeted enemy was, promptly confusing everyone who got displaced could turn it into a grouping tool thats funny and thematic.
Considering how Invis is a perma active ability, making his passive extend its duration as he spreads mischief even if by a second at a time would be nice.
Decoy's changes and Augment we'll have to see how they pan out.
Radial disarm could take a page out of Xakus book, where the stolen weapons can do various things like bounce around, flying around like balloons, exploding, and firing at enemies for a duration, any instances of damage would apply all sorts of random status effect, even strange ones like Microwave, and the Peculiar Mods Grow/Flower effects. Maybe even stealing eximus auras, distributing them to various random enemies but for our benefit, not theirs.
Just spitballing, but I feel Loki should be messing with people like how Gauss was in his prime trailer.
I think a nice change would be making his teleport apply something onto an enemy and also apply radiation same as his 4, maybe a bomb of some kind with a small gimmick as to how it detonates
for me they shoul change decoy to another hability and use it in the teleport where the enemy you teleport becomes a target to the other ones and add a armor strip to the disarm
They could get change disarm instead of disarming enemies, they fire their guns against each other, and power strength increases enemy damage against themselves but not friendlies. That could work with the decoy augment, if the augment scales with strength. Not sure how busted or underpowered this could be, but maybe making him invincible while casting abilities (almost like a magician doing an act on stage) would fit him.
loki was my starting frame and back then i loved him sure was my build good nope i never fully understood how good loki was till after things came out that he couldn't effect with his ult
they could just make his invis last longer
and keep the decoy ( not that i like it )
also changed his ult to allow him to allow him to effect more things but make it a bubble that expands ( like nova and mag )
if not any of those make kit over all less needing of range so you only need to worry about time
I have an idea for a new passive for Loki, since he's kind of a illusionist he could protect his own body with illusions and could have something like 25% chance to ignore a damage instance and if he has overshields that chance would go up to 50%. While yes that would be strong, in Warframe you get hit a LOT and this could help with his invisibility not being 100% up in high level missions.
I just want a toggle for decoy that makes it a non aggressor or a stealth unit kinda like a switch teleport marker for stealth missions.
I think one way to lean more into the niche of spy missions etc, easiest passive to implement I feel would be to just let him go through lasers without any harm and without triggering alarms from it. Idk might be too basic though 🤷🏽♂️
Last night I was using him to Arrow Grineer to the wall after a bad day at work. 😁😁😁😁
Put radiation on his radial disarm, his teleport could give some sort of damage buff and if you use it on your decoy, it could give the decoy a smaller buff or an equal buff, how his Decoy is going to get that status rework seems really nice though, could be very useful
Turn the radial disarm into a stun and open them to finishers
He should have cc and defense strip of some kind, and his decoys should imo function like maybe a priming version of celestial twin or sevagoths reap and he could get a couple more? You dont have to be a nuke to be viable, and you would lose his identity if they did.
Oooooh boy. If my starter and first fav get a good rework, I'll be HYPED.
fun idea for decoy, have enemy fire go through it and damage their allies. maybe switch teleport target changes what the decoy looks like, how big it is n stuff :3. make it a dual-effect, stand alone decoy if not cast on an enemy, have the new effect if you you want to have a specific enenemy damaged. Edit: also i wish we still have access to older abilities and their versions, maybe have them as ability cards like the good ol days.
I think decoy and switch teleport should be one ability and knock down his radial disarm into his 3rd ability slot. This will leave his ultimate free for a big spell, idk, something more flavor than mechanical like he calls down thor temporarily to damage/distract enemies... or blanks the area in a thick fog that makes it harder for enemies to hit any player.
A passive as cool as taking the form of whom he kills
I'd like Loki to have an ability to project/mirror his own image on any enemy and pull aggro on that enemy. When that particalar enemy dies, the one that killed him takes over the image. Until Loki stops casting ofcourse.this fits in his style of being a trickster. It fits in the spy mission frame geist. It does not make him directly overpowered in any way but does give incentive to build of of it. Maybe a tool to empower enemies. A risk reward. When you run out of mana early you get to deal with the empowered enemies yourself. The passive can make you invisible and give a instant unlock while casting the ability.
Loki's teleport should make a separated decoy and that should be affected by the new augment. Or, have him take the form of the target be seen as friendly by the enemies. And, in both cases, this should steal overguard from enemies. This would make Loki OP and still be in his theme.
With this, his playstyle would be a lot more "chaotic", teleporting around, creating doppelgangers and impersonating enemies. I think this would match a lot his theme.
His invisibility should also do some stuff, like parkour speed, more hacking time, jam enemies weapons as he pass by them.
A cool passive would be projectile evasion when in ads. similar to how you can block damage while using melee. only difference here is you can still shoot in this ads mode. like matrix but warframe.
Shapeshifting could be done if it was limited to one enemy type per faction. Say, you're doing a grineer mission, you shapeshift into a Manic, for Corpus you could shapeshift into those skater fuks that disrupt you in AoE and so on. Hell, maybe even make it so you're seen as a friendly unit as long as you're out of combat, make the augment cast an AoE Fear / Rad proc on nearby enemies when you break the friendly status by attacking.
His passive could be updated to have bonuses against enemies who aren't targeting you or bonuses to performing finishers. Both work to the theme of working against enemies who are distracted.
In terms of Loki having a rework, it will have to happen soon. Passive should allow Loki some cool trap like if you're crouching you'll set a zone that slams dudes down keeping them still few seconds or make his cloak the passive. Mostly stay crouching to increase time cloaked for a cap of 30 seconds and only goes down if you start really moving and jumping. The decoy doubles as both distraction and if you hold cast to teleport back to it. Second power should be a nasty lock down trap that eats away enemies health while keeping them in place, could cast on walls, floor even the ceiling if wanted. Third power should have a duel function that could be used on a target that turns the effected target into a decoy or allows a range teleport if wanted. The forth works the same but let's Loki to hit dudes to stripes armor and make anyone else more vulnerable to damage.
Talking about frames that have been left behind, I'm still waiting on a valk rework...been 6 years since she was touched, and a couple before that since she was last seriously buffed/changed. Still has 20% of my game time and I haven't played her much in years.
I do still run a max range Irradiating Disarm Loki sometimes. Having all enemies everywhere just gather in a pile to smack each other is funny, and then I can just swoop in and kill them.
i like how his augments are useful but if he needs them then he needs a buff, like tp to the clone while invis makes it invis but still attracts enemies, his 4 could spawn a clone for each enemy hit and his invis gives a bit of move speed and weapon handling that doesnt scale w str so we can go negative for overextended, idk how to buff his clone tho, if he makes a copy of our secondary then its gonna be too good and if it innately procs radiation it might break invis builds, maybe just increase the cap? idk how that would be useful solo but squad can actually help manipulate the enemies, where they prefer going into the room w loki and his 3 clones than the other room where his 3 squadmates are(that is, if theresnt another loki clones or frames that can create higher aggro targets)
I personally would give him:
-Passive - Give him weaker version of Arcane Arachne OR still 10x longer wall latch but when his latched he receives 2 energy per second scalses with strength.
-Decoy - New changes are good so not gonna change anything
-Invisiblity - His invisibility can be recasted so he can be indefinitely invisible.
-Switch Teleport - Grant movement speed for short time and he leaves a shorter duration Decoy. Decoy and Switch teleport decoy can be active at same time.
-Radial Disarm - Get an light armor strip like 20% and NEW Overguard Strip with 40% base overguard strip and scales with strength. When loki fully strips overguard he also strips weapons at same time.
I also have other suggestions.
-Passive - Again give him weaker version of Arcane Arachne OR still 10x longer wall latch but when his latched he receives 2 energy per second scalses with strength.
-Change Switch Teleport to his 1st abbility and make on short press spawns Decoy and on long press teleport and spawns Decoy on position where Loki Teleported from. Decoy duration isn't changed.
-Invisibility - Again his invisibility can be recasted so he can be indefinitely invisible. I am not gonna add more to this abbility, Invisibility is already strong as it is.
-New 3rd abbility Shapeshift or Copycat - Can change to selected few warframes. These selection of warframes can be changed in Arsenal before game starts. Once you pick 4 warframe they are locked for entire duration of game. Like lets say Rhino, Wisp, Mesa and Gauss. Then you can litterly become those warframes for period of time. These warframes that you change to are gonna take mods that you have on Loki on themselves. And once you are those warframes the abbilitys are gonna be only 60% effective compared to original frame. Also the exalted weapons from mesa or excalibur are gonna be unmodded. Once you go back to Loki the warframe that you have been is gonna be on cooldown. Lets say 60 sec. And abbilitys that you cast from other frames are gonna stay, like Wisp nodes.
-Radial Disarm - Again get an light armor strip like 20% and NEW Overguard Strip with 40% base overguard strip and scales with strength. When loki fully strips overguard he also strips weapons at same time.
Thats it. Have fun.
The best foundation I can think of for a rework is to make his abilities change depending on whether invisibility is active. That would give a good amount of room to tinker. Invisibility can't be recast while active so ~95% of the time your 2 button doesn't do anything. The ability button should probably do something
Some ideas on Loki's other abilities:
Decoy needs actually do something. A detonation of some kinda is the most obvious. if not damage, something like blind, sleep, or radiation. Also recasting should make the existing decoy path to the target location if able.
Likewise switch teleport needs some kind of combat utility. The most obvious one is a telefrag effect. Maybe it could revive downed allies when you switch with them. I like the idea of being able to swap with a decoy as long as its active. works as a trigger for the decoy detonation idea.
I've got nothing for Radial Disarm. CC isn't very effective. Disarm isn't very effective CC. The thing it says on the tin isn't a thing worth doing so ideally it gets scrappedd
Stalker passive is really all he needs even though its pretty lazy and his 4 maybe could be a single target damage vulnerability debuff that spreads when the target is killed up to a cap of additional targets maybe like 2 probably could scale with range or duration or strength or maybe it could be chance based with the chance/number of targets doubling if he isnt being targeted by the enemy.
Hooray for Loki 🎉 I like the decoy change. If Loki could shapeshift that would be incredible 😮
I've been a Loki main my entire warframe career and have played in closed beta!
The idea I have had for Loki for a long time is something like this (hold on for the first parts you'll see where im going towards the end.
Firstly his passive should allow loki to receive small buffs to parkour speed and sprint speed based on how many enemies are currently under his influence (cc or status, whichever seems more balanced)
For decoy it is largely being fixed in the coming update, but on top of that I would make it so that if the decoy is switch teleported by Loki it emits a wave similar to radial disarm (this is important later) and also turns some of the enemies into decoys as well (feature of decoy update)
Invisibility is largely fine but I would add a few moments of invincibility after coming out of stealth (like yarelli and merulina) and maybe if we're feeling generous a decent amount of DR to aoe (explosions and such)
Switch teleport is a great ability, but now whenever you switch with a target they become a decoy and take more damage, while also having the same effects as the normal decoy.
And finally, the biggest change I suggest is changing Radial Disarm into what i like to call Joker's Presence, where when cast could either emit a wave (like radial disarm) or emit an aura (like equinox's 4s) that makes all enemies in the area more susceptible to CC, Status, and stealth finishers. I prefer the aura that way it could scale more off of Ability duration to synergize with his other abilities better (loki has always needed an odd stretch or so for disarm, this ability could also be a drain) More susceptible to CC could make it so that his decoys draw more aggro, the disarming wave could become larger, and more enemies are turned into decoys at x%. More susceptible to status could mean many things, but my favorite was to make every status effect slightly stronger, this would mean many different things but the main three that i deem very important are letting cold stack to 11 (freezing at 11) corrosive to 11 (more strip, more space for archon shards, also gives a good reason to make a tauforged emerald) and radiation (or blast honestly.) ofc the augment needs to change but we can make it similar to frosts chilling globe snowglobe, where enemies entering (and/or exiting) have a x% chance to be inflicted with radiation and/or become a decoy. The augment would be aptly named, Irradiating Presence.
This is just my dreams but I honestly think Loki could have more niche gameplay than just running around invisible doing pretty much nothing.
The problem is when you switch teleport other frames or targets you are protecting, do they become aggro magnets? Enemy only would be fine.
@@toddzircher6168 It could either just ignore the decoy part, and just emit a wave for disarming, or it can search for nearby enemies to turn into a decoy.
What are you even trying to say to me right now... More susceptible to CC? Your frame either has a CC or doesn't... Why does something need to become more susceptible to it? If you cast Harrows chains, the enemies in range are CC'd... The end... Nobody needs to be that except... More... Whatever that possibly could mean. Also more susceptible to stealth finishers? Again, what even is this!?!? You stealth, you go up behind enemy, you click button and boom... Stealth finisher. How in the heck are you proposing one becomes any more susceptible to this when they are sitting ducks to an invisible frame as it is? I'm sorry but also the ability to just BOOM enemy is now a decoy and no longer an attacker seems a bit too simplistic and even overpowered if you're able to easily dispatch foes by turning them into target dummies for the other enemies on a whim. I can't get behind any of this. I'm afraid I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul (I'm only kidding, I respect your opinion lol)
@@derekspringer6448 did you ... read the comment?
to be honest I love his passive when I have the riven "kill x enemies on wall latch" but yeah a bit much more of love I can agree