CYBERPUNK PRECURSORS: James Tiptree Jnr, 'Rollerball', William Gibson, Anthology Review
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2025
- You may think our world of internet marketing and social media influencers is new, but "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" predicted it- and the Corporate Utopia of "Rollerball Murder" reflects the background capitalism we live under today. Steve looks back at these seminal works of the early 1970s and reveals the influence of Tiptree over Gibson...plus another anthology review.
Music: The Occupier (C) #sciencefictionbooks #sciencefiction #bookrecommendations #booktube #bookcollecting #sf
PLEASE FINISH WATCHING THE VIDEO AND READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING-THANK YOU: in today's video, I use a brief example from real life to show how corporate and public organisations use advertisements (or commercials as you guys in North America say) to market themselves as (1) actually being caring or (2) to indicate how virtuous they are so we feel safe in buying from them/using them (as you can tell, the second way of looking at this is a more cynical one, but arguably a more realistic one).
I use this example to illustrate how an SF story from fifty years ago brilliantly indicated with astonishing prescience how marketing via the mass media (including the internet) might develop in the future- and the authors' prescience has pretty much come true.
That example focuses on a kind of representation of race in British advertising and how it is disproportionate to reality were one to argue from the standpoint of proportional representation (i.e. are the numbers adding up- are enough people from a minority being fairly represented in such a milieu? It's another argument that is a proportional or disproportional representation necessary and why if should be so if the answer is 'yes' or 'no').
The comment I make is not intended as a 'Racist' comment and if it is listened to word for word, it is not presented or couched as such: it is, instead, an illustrative example of how IP has entered the mass media and by implication how powerful the mass media is in influencing people's social, political and cultural ideas- again, to illustrate the power of mass media marketing before we look at the works in question.
If you are offended by such an example, then it will seem to me that you may fall into that category of people who immediately take offense at any such mention of minorities and automatically assume that anything that is not accompanied by glowing praise for group identities is an attack. It's not- and I cannot take this kind of knee-jerk reaction posturing seriously . If we cannot use a real-world example, with undeniable evidence behind it and rational, objective discussion around it to look at the social implications of a work of Art, then as a planetary civilization, we're not worthy of the epithet.
Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy the video, which was filmed, uploaded and scheduled some days prior to my community post yesterday.
Great to see a discussion of Rollerball. I still remember the disappointment of the other film with the same name which had more in common with the 90's TV show Gladiators than it did the original film or story. Truly dire :) As always, I came away with a bit more direction in my reading and new things to discover. Many thanks!
Thanks Paul- and MANY THANKS for the 'Survivors' care package- the Video Widow and I are loving it! You get a mention in the next collector diary episode and a producer credit in a wk or two. Very, very kind of you, need some good ol' 1970s TV SF!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal You're welcome! It is an amazing series, although if remember episode 5, law and order, is a tough watch!
Thanks for keeping the channel more vibrant and entertaining than ever, despite the health situation. You're the man Steve
Felix, I'm very touched- thanks for being a consistent supporter and for making thoughtful posts, it really is what I need to hear today, it's been a tough one!
🙌 Did you receive the super thanks?
@@felixskivor4487 Yes thanks! Much appreciated
Great. Doesn’t show in my YT app for some reason. Enjoy your Sunday!
24:15 Regarding pre-internet internet mentions, there was also "data-net" from John Brunner's "Shockwave Rider" in 1975.
Yes, Brunner is definitely a Cyberpunk precursor. The 'big books' by him are all crackers.
Rollerball is never ranked in the top Scifi movies of all times, but it's right up there in the top 10. James Caan's performance was incredible, all that repressed anger, him barely raising his voice throughout the whole film and that incredible last scene. Goosebumps guaranteed.
Yes, it's one of the very best SF films- Caan was so good at expressing through expression and body language what a jock like Jonathan E struggled to say verbally. If those 'rankings' were dominated by people who actually read SF, it would come out top ten easily, I'd say.
Yes of course, I was talking about the movie but the short story Rollerball Murder is also excellent. William Harrison was a fantastic writer that had some really weird but great short fiction@@outlawbookselleroriginal
I really cherish my edition of “Solar Winds.” I remember being too young and not allowed to go see “Rollerball” at the local theater. So of course I patiently waited until it was on HBO or something similar. I don’t think I appreciated it until much later when I’d lived a little and been savaged a bit by life, then I saw it with new eyes and really fell in love.
Super THANK YOU, Jack-yes, 'Rollerball' is like a fine wine- it actually gets better the more you watch it. An underrated film allround, I feel.
Always love it when Calvert comes up. If you think of the origins of Jacking in - it probably is tied to when the operator plugged you in to the number you were wanting. A very old fashioned image.
Also, I usually use an add blocker but watched this on the phone and got bombarded with adverts - nicely apt.
Yes, you're absolutely right!
Well, the ads are how I make a small income from the channel, so they are a necessary evil-as you say, apt. I generally don't get to see them ,as I watch YT (generally) on TV via a streaming bluray player that has a YT app. But I hope not everyone blocks them, or I'll have to quit LOL!
I was looking through the contents page of a book I haven’t read yet-The Ultimate Cyberpunk-and found “The Girl Who Was Plugged In.” I was happy to see that considering you had just mentioned it in this video here. So I will be putting this story on my ‘TBR’..
I just started reading the 1883 sequel to the Princess and the Goblin called “The Princess and Curdie.” I usually read 1 or 2 books during the week and a couple of plays on the weekend-Shakespeare plus something else until I’ve read all of Shakespeare. This weekend it’s “Titus Andronicus,” and perhaps a tragedy by Seneca.
More serious reading -I salute you again!
@@outlawbookselleroriginalthank you. It’s a very interesting and educational hobby. When I was watching your most recent video I was thinking how lucky you were to have experienced your life span, the time and changes you’ve experienced. I came along in the 80s so everything was entirely new to me and for you it seems the 80s is the period when things started to fizzle out (after the 80s I mean… lucky I snuck into the 80s or I would have totally missed out). The benefit of now is we have access to all of the past so easily so we can go back and look at all of those older and seminal works. I’m not very interested in a lot of the new stuff (but this is good because otherwise time is limited).
Edit: For context, I was born in 1981
I have to admit that reading James Tiptree, Jr./Alice B. Sheldon in the early 70s jump started my interest in SF. Her stories were electric. At the time Tiptree was a mystery, and I lived through the revelation with wonder. I could get enough of her. Her end was tragic, and later I found out that I was living very near where she lived in Herndon, Virginia. I sometimes wonder if I may have seen her in the shops. She still resonates with me. There is an excellent biography of her by Julie Phillips, James Tiptree, Jr. The Double Life of Alice B. Sheldon.
Yes Dan, I've thought about getting it as I'm sure I'd enjoy it. I hadn't read anything by her for a good 15 years- we covered 'Up the Walls of the World' at a University SF reading group I used to attend back then and I'd not re-read her since the 80s when it came to "The Girl Who Was Plugged In". Fascinating to hear she was formative for you.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I haven't read her for years also, but I still remember her short stories which I found electric. They broke new ground at the time, the early 70s. I haven't read her two novels. I read somewhere that she was rather weak as a novelist, that her novels didn't have the same charge and spikiness as her short stories. I may have to read them to see whether that assertion is true.
I've been thinking a lot about the precursors to Cyberpunk lately and your mention of Sheckley's "Seventh Victim" was new to me. Interestingly, I've been maintaining a Cyberpunk list and had Petri's "10th Victim" listed as a precursor since I first started building it. It never occurred to me to check for a book/story that inspired it! My list is a bit thin prior to Cordwainer Smith on the SF side so learning about Sheckley's story is a revelation. Thank you.
Sheckley is seminal: Douglas Adams lifted considerably from him and every YA kill-game novel out there is the b*stard great-grandchild of "The Seventh Victim", "The People Trap" and other Sheck stories. Your list will be thin prior to Smith because Cyberpunk influences are in different strands before they assemble around the Mirroshades group of writers at the end of the 1970s. Watch my other Cyberpunk videos, linked at the end of this one, for more info. There will be another Cyberpunk video that looks at another precursor aspect, but the Corporate one has been under-examined, I felt.
I love the movie of The 10th Victim. It’s got great’60s style.
@@thekeywitness -Yes, the Italians really did it from the 1950s-1970s, one of the many reasons why I love the place and its culture, as you'll see if you watch my Capri Vlog series, which is stuffed with literary references.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal when you say "corporate" do you mean Cyberpunk's thematic element of corporation-rule, or something else?
@@mefogus -Corporation rule and the hegemonic participation of the people.
Fun fact - HMV used to sell Jonathan E t-shirts back in the day. Got one from Croydon for £5 IIRC 30+ years ago. I've seen a lot of other Rollerball clothing since but that one is still the best.
The legendary Bob Peak was the artist responsible for the iconic poster art. 70s dystopian cinema was the best.
Soylent Green is People!
Cool! Yes, Dystopian SF cinema in the 1970s was pretty special- then 'Star Wars' came along and sent SF back to the nursery. Tragic!
A writer who's novels I think are precursors to cyberpunk is, and I know it seems unlikely, Mark Adlard. He didn't write much SF, but his T-city trilogy, Interface, Multiface and Volteface are short, tightly written and quite prescient. They often get overlooked and are not well known, but they are worth a few hours of anyone's time.
Another interesting video, thanks Steve.
Yes, I agree. I can see right away what you mean. Interesting stuff- and the fact they were always drinking Newcastle Brown in the novels used to tickle me. I want an ice-cold pint of it now, haven't had a sip for years...
I never much liked Newcastle Brown. Strong & Co of Romsey used to make a good Brown ale. I remember heading south from London on the train, with my bags of books from Dark They Were and Golden Eyed or George Locke or Fantasy Centre, every few hundred yards there were trackside billboards: "You're getting near the Strong country", "You're in the Strong country". Strong & Co are long gone, absorbed by Whitbread or some other factory brewer.
@@leakybootpress9699 -Y'know, I almost tear up when I think of how exciting it was to visit a REAL specialist- even late in the day, like when Andy had stock downstairs in Maxim's Murder One it was still a thrill. Now, they're all gone, so sad. Forbidden Planet? Well, terrible, I find. I'll be visiting the London one in November though, first time in 11 years...
I’ve got that Tiptree SF Masterworks. I’ve read a couple of the stories and will read “The Girl..” next. Somehow I’ve missed actually watching Rollerball all these years. Will seek it out.
You must watch it- it's thoughtful, exciting, beautifully acted and visually and aurally stunning.
Great video as always, learned a ton, thank you. I have a later Tor Double of "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" combined with Vonda McIntyre's "Screwtop"...1980's I believe... I'd be interested in your thoughts on McIntyre...will look to see if you've discussed her work previously.
Thank you too. I've mentioned her in passing a few times, but not really spoken of her in any depth. This may happen, but she is, to be honest, way down the list currently.
Really love the channel. "The girl who was plugged" in sounds really interesting. I need to read some James tiptree jr.
Your input and knowledge is awesome. You're the first person that I heard talking about neuromancer and mentioning the Velvet underground references (particularly Bobby Quine)
Well, thank you- I'm old enough and experienced enough to know the wider culture and always look beyond the obvious. Great to have you here.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Thanks for the reply!
I wonder if Linda Lee (the girl that Case always remember) is another TVU reference? There's a song on the final album (Loaded) called "Cool it down" and Lou sings that "he's looking for Miss Linda Lee"
Cheers from Argentina!
@@Ro_Morgen -I've always interpreted it that way when reading 'Neuromancer'. I can't imagine WG didn't listen to 'Loaded'.
Great video essay, as always! 👍 I read "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" earlier this year: as you say, terrific novella. Indeed, I went on a Sheldon binge back in the spring and re-read her first four collections, brilliant stuff! (only the first two of which have ever had a UK release - the 2021 Penguin edition which you displayed in your video is - astonishingly! - the very first and only UK edition of that collection). In fact, I have all four English language A-format paperback editions of her debut collection, two US and two UK. Julie Phillips's _James Tiptree, Jr. : The Double Life of Alice B. Sheldon_ is one of the greatest literary biographies I have ever read.
Read the LeGuin story late last year or early this year for the first time. Very brief, but very affecting.
I have a book club edition of _The Best of Damon Knight_ with that story in it. Haven't read it yet, though!
I've re-read some other shorts by her since making this video and enjoyed them, though I think "Girl" is my favourite- her work could be published today as new writing and it would be very fresh, but of higher quality than we're seeing from most contemporary SF writers (particularly female ones, some of whom display her influence, even at second-hand). The story that remains ambitious but over-rated for me is " And I Awoke and Found me Here on the Cold HIll's Side" which I've read three times and cannot help myself from comparing to Delany's masterful, tragic and devastating "Aye, and Gomorrah". I know it has a slightly different theme, but I can't stop thinking about them as a pair and finding Tiptree wanting by comparison. You're right re the Penguin too- I was sure it was a retitiling until I checked. Hard to believe!
Let me know what you think of the Knight- the ending really struck me, brilliant. When I like his stuff, I really like it, I find.
@@outlawbookselleroriginalRead the Knight story this afternoon. The character's day-to-day life is reminiscent of Sam Lowry in _Brazil_. And the whole way in which he earns a living: very on trend in regards to the current discussions about AI digital art. So THAT'S how Danielle Steel does it?! 😅
But then there's the dispiriting and dull and bleak ending. Very Malzbergian. Appropriate, as your main man wrote the introduction to _The Best of Damon Knight_ (1976), wherein I just read "Down There".
Try Max Barry's 'Syrup' and 'Company' for more corporate and marketing shenanigans. Barry is a Sci-Fi writer and these two are not really sci-fi, but they do turn the microscope upon Capitalism with wry humour
I have read Max' work and like his pointed, fierce attack, though I've not read those two. Good call by yourself!
Think my last comment vanished ?? Just commenting about rollerball I was at school as well and not old enough for AA movie was gutted the poster was so iconic never forgot it . Had to wait a few years to see it so appreciated even more I think. Great books as usual I just picked up driftglass which contains aye and gomorrah which I have heard you talk about and Harlan Ellisons approaching oblivion so looking forward to up coming episodes about his work . Cheers buddy🫡
Cool, all good stuff. The channel is experiencing some glitches tonight, not sure why.
I've taken against that purpled-spined Penguin reprint of 'Warm Worlds & Otherwise' as (and I'm sure you know this) it does not include the Robert Silverberg introduction wherein he said, "there is to me something ineluctably masculine about Tiptree's writing." I'd love to read the full text of old Bob making an arse of himself.
Yes- I have read bits of it quoted...as I say though, not often the old SIlverbob is wrong!
Love the shades, LOL!
Watching Outlaw Bookseller episodes is akin to dining at a Michelin Five-Star restaurant every day. I'll stand by that analogy anywhere, anytime. That aside, Rollerball made my head explode back in the day as an impressionable adolescent. It gave me a healthy distrust of the ultra-wealthy which remains with me to this day. As I'm fond of saying to anyone who will listen; all human suffering since the beginning of civilization has been caused by the ultra-wealthy. Just sayin'. Alice Bradley Simpson led a charmed life, really, and it is beyond this humble mortal's ability to understand her suicide much less involving her husband in it (resulting in his demise as well). But there it is. If we weren't unpredictable we wouldn't be human. Your comment, OB, regarding British advertising is the antithesis of racist because it is honest, factual and non-judgemental, IMHO. Cheers.
Cheers Rick. Yes, 'Rollerball' as a critique of the ultra-rich is pretty damning- like yourself, I saw it young and it has stayed with me. The whole murder-suicide thing with Tiptree is pretty flaky, agreed -and I think you may have a point that she did alright for herself, coming from a background that seemed to give her every confidence. I am enjoying revisiting her work and reading some stories I've not covered before and as much as I'm enjoying them, I'm seeing her influence second hand in many of the poorer examples of SF today- especially those by young female writers. Many of them have similar prose styles, but watered down to a degree that is like the merest hint of lime in limp mineral water.
Anyone who claims they aren't marketing themselves is deceiving themselves (missing a trick). Cool lighting
Yeah, I thought I'd go a bit trippy for that one!
I picked up the anthology with the movie cover. It was a cheap way to get Rollerball Murder for under a fiver.
You mean the collection, 'Rollerball Murder', by William Harrison? (an anthology is a book of stories by different hands, but I'm assuming you don't mean the Aldiss/Harry Harrison anthology I showed with a tie-in cover? I don't think it was republished that way, though I may be wrong, as I've seen 3 different tie-in covers over the years). Under £5 is good either way!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal it’s a 1975 orbit A format Harrison collection of 13 short stories inc Rollerball Murder with a photo of James Caan on the cover.
@@bigaldoesbooktube1097 Right, I used to have that collection too, don't know where it went...
the perfected form of propaganda is advertising. there's a tor double with Screwtop and The Girl Who Was Plugged In (#7).
I see advertising as an example that perfectly illustrates Gramsci's idea of Hegemony: of buying into the orthodoxy of the overweening culture -'oh look, that's what normal people are like, that's what we're like too,'. Dream on, capitalism.
@@outlawbookselleroriginalDick Hebdige's Subculture plots the from something new to something normal journey out.
@@tragicslip I have read 'Subculture' several times since the 1980s and although it's interesting. I am critical of his interpretations of and views of Punk and Glam: seeing them purely as a response to black youth culture and dilemmas is extremely questionable- he doesn't account for the parts of Britain where Punk took hold very early (such as South Wales, where I come from, a lot of the early scene people hailing from the Valleys, where there was an almost 100% white ancestral British populace). Can't quite make sense of your post as I suspect a word is missing, can you repost? Thanks!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I am sure he got a lot wrong and i read the novel in the late 90s, in the US, having missed Punk and Glam. I do think the novel suggests a useful rubric: the potential of any subculture to impact a society is inversely related to how well it is (currently) assimilated in the dominate culture.
fully assimilated revolutionaries have their likeness sold on t shirts for normal rebellious youths. in capitalism you commodify the revolution, but this packaging is pervasive in human societies and goes far to explain the team sport that is US politics, climate discussions. the politics of the US prevent change from being possible (this is why Obama's Change message was so persuasive) and the religious fervor around climate initiatives also prevent change from happening. Dominate culture maintains an equilibrium and in the process stifles innovation, the novel.
sorry i am not clearer, trying my best. anyway another thought provoking video, thanks.
@@tragicslip -yes, as soon as rebellion is codified and commodified, it ceases to be so.
Doing a script based on the Bester short story is a great idea. It always baffles me that, so far, none of his work has made It to the movies. A friend of mine who was a Studio exec back in the 80's told me that a script for Tiger! Tiger!(or the silly other title, anyway) had been going around for many years, but somehow never got made. When you think of all the cr*ppy stuff that has made to the big screen it really puzzles me that no studio has been willing to give It a shot. Arnold S might have made a pretty decent Gully Foyle at one time, who knows?
Oh, yeah, JMS paid homage to The Demolished Man with the Alfred Bester character in Babylon 5. Not the same thing as a full blown movie based on the book, though.
I started writing a screenplay of "Time is the Traitor" once then realised I had no idea how to write a screenplay- but I wrote a screen treatment (Which is a short prose version that just describes the plot outline) and I'm sure it would work well as a film. I think many SF novels are too much for a feature film, while so many short stories could work brilliantly.
I was too young (a teenager) in the 70s to actually have an opinion on the Tiptree is she or isn't she conundrum. Looking at in the 80s, stories like The Women Men Don't See seemed definitively female to me. Then again, I have pretty bad toxic masculinity.
The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas was apparently done on a recent Star Trek show without attribution. Le Guin was not afraid to take on the big subjects, I haven't seen the show but I'm positive it was done for virtue signalling rather than as a criticism of (a/our) society.
By the by, the opiate remark is Lenin not Marx.
Don't accept the designation 'toxic' for yourself- it's a divisive usage, being worn thin into nothingness by overuse. The more we use it, the more we allow people who simply adhere to cliche and over-easy dismissal of others to have power. I never use the word in that context, but keep it for discussions of chemistry LOL. Like yourself, I was too young then, wasn't aware of her until the 80s.
Wasn't aware of the Trek-LeGuin thing, but then I am pretty much uninterested in SF in contemporary screen media, since it is still fifty years behind books most of the time.
I think Lenin may have used the phrase later, but it's attributed to Marx when he paraphrased an existing dictum.
I'm not a fan of sport or bending the knee.
Same here.