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*Third* The only people who would defend Velma/Mindy Kailing are the people who think when a girl loves a guy who only sees her as a friend, he only acts like a jerk because he secretly loves her. I’m sorry, who’s the jerk then? m.ua-cam.com/video/i-eWhtSZ2oY/v-deo.html
@@flamestoyershadowkill That is an insult to fanfic writers. At least fanfic writers respect or care about the source material, instead of trashing it like Mindy did.
What I hate about these "mature" adult shows is that they usually pointlessly portray the characters as jerks. Like adults can't relate to people who are kind to each other or anything 😒
Yeah I have seen a grand total of 0 people like this. People legit liked Big Mouth. And I assumed the people who liked that one would like this too. But from what I can tell I was wrong.
Not only does Shaggy not act like himself, he doesn't even LOOK like himself. And i'm not talking about the skin color here. He looks like a goddamn Total Drama Island OC
"Who is this for?!" Mindy. It's for Mindy, especially seeing as she's using Velma as a self insert. I feel like I'm getting an in depth look at her personal life, problems, and views. All of which have convinced me that I *never* want to meet Mindy.
Yep, same here, I want to stay as far away from Mindy as possible. Because she not only ruined one of my favorite series(Scooby-Doo), or at least, helped ruin it, but who knows, she could make it worse in the future. Me? I'd rather just go back to the better Scooby-Doo cartoons, like "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo"(the one with a catchy theme song) and, "What's New, Scooby-Doo?"(my favorite of the Scooby-Doo cartoons, and in my opinion is the one with the BEST theme song), but there's also "Mystery Incorporated", which I haven't seen myself yet; but I hear it's great. Grew up with reruns of the original series from the 60s, (because I'm not a time traveler, at least, not yet; anyways...)
@Peter Hanson Yeah; I also agree, and yeah, if anyone else's listening, if you want to see darker interpretations of Scooby-Doo(done right), there's "Scooby-Doo and The Witch's Ghost"(which has an awesome punk girl band performance at the end, AND, it's also got Tim Curry, as the main villain, the novelist, Ben Ravencroft!), and my favorite of the Scooby-Doo movies: obviously, is Zombie Island, because I didn't think they'd actually go and make it as dark as they did. I mean, at this point in time, I'd definitely take Scooby-Doo and The Spindly Johnny(Caddicarus reference!), over Velma! Seriously. They took Scooby out of the show, made Fred dumb, and made both Velma and Daphne annoying, and obnoxious. I too, miss when CN weren't trying dumb things like horrible reality shows and barely any cartoons, and also, mentioning that CARTOON NETWORK themselves said they DIDN'T NEED CARTOONS anymore! How do you even do something THAT dumb?
The best part about the Johnny Bravo crossover was when they bumped into each other and both lost their glasses. Velma, of course, said "my glasses! I can't see without my glasses!" Johnny, on the other hand, was all "my glasses! I can't be seen without my glasses!" 🤣🤣🤣
By reading your comment, I was suddenly taken back 20 years in time... to my grandparents house. Cartoon Network was a bit exclusive back then and they were the only ones in my family who had it. I loved watching Scooby Doo and Johnny Bravo, and I remember that crossover so well! A good memory indeed.
The biggest issue I have about Velma is that she literally is just Mindy Kaling, she is literally just self-inserting herself to be as rude and cynical as possible
I don't know if I buy the self-insert theory. As these hateful, smug, hypocritical and amoral characters are a trend in Hollywood in general. I think it's writers just trying to write how they think young people are these days. All these portrayals of maladjusted and socially defective cretins and weirdos not as flawed characters who need redemption, but good guys and heroes, says a lot though... It's not subverting expectations either, it's just bizarre character writing.
Right? Like, I can still imagine the tattooed blonde hipster at 5:14 sounding and acting like a Shaggy. But not this character. I actually guffawed when I first saw him because of how un-shaggylike the design is. It's like a Ship of Theseus of a character. If you replace everything about a character's personality AND looks, and only keep its name (and green shirt and brown pants, because that's all what matters when it comes to Shaggy I guess?) can it still be called the same character?
The reason they did that was to probably have the character not too connected with shaggy since the other characters are more comparable to their original counterparts
They really did miss the chance to make The Mistery Inc a small, struggling detective agency that somehow gets caught up in a very high profile murder case. There was the chance to take a sirious story and tell it through the goofyness of scooby doo, creating humour from the clashes of genres. And the creators saw these options, and then also saw a dumpsterfire next to them, and decided to run with that.
@@filipinodude5457 It’s really not racist to say that. White people getting blackwashed is the same thing as black people being whitewashed, or any other race for that matter.
@@filipinodude5457 tbh i wouldn’t give a sh!t if shaggy was still shaggy. everything about him was changed and now he’s just some nerd. i want the sloppy, possibly high, hungry, weirdo back.
Y'know what makes me sad? An adult mature Mystery Gang could honestly be awesome. They wouldn't even have to stretch that far; they could just lean into the horror and crime aspects the franchise already possesses, but instead of toning the severity of it down like it usually does, it could be focused on instead. Like the Mystery Gang fighting *_actual_* monsters or solving genuine missing person or murder cases with the risk of danger and death. You could keep the same banter between the crew as coping mechanisms for their more grisly professions while showcasing how harrowing it would actually be to put yourselves in the line of fire to unearth a mystery. But nah, we get this crap instead
If you want a recommendation to cheer you up, there’s a book called Meddling Kids by Edgar Cantero a Watchmen-esque deconstruction of Scooby Doo that crosses it with elements of Stephen King’s It. It even has BIPOC and gay characters in a way that doesn’t come across as more pandering than progressive like the Velma show does
What's weird about Mindy's quote is that she says she relates to her character, but then *completely* reworks her whole personality from being likeable to being detestable. So either she doesn't actually identify with her character originally and is just virtue signalling, or she is atrocious at capturing the personality of the original Velma. Neither option is good.
The creators of the show: "We want to make a mature show that adults will enjoy, and adults want to see edgy adult humor, not a dog." Meanwhile, adults: *Are watching Bluey even when their kids aren't around*
And also watch anime, funny to think the Japanese can have such a diverse genres of animation for all ages that most people can enjoy and even have actual adult shows without it being a dumb comedy. Western Adult Animation is really lacking in diversity in genres.
And proceeds to make Velma stupid, accusing people of murder over stereotypes or just "I don't like this guy therefore he's the murderer". Wow, almost like Mindy Kaling has no interest in detective stories at all!!
Correction I would have just ran away and never come back if I had her for my daughter and I will have changed my name and start over again with a new family.
just so everybody knows, norville mentions he had a dog but he died of ringworm. Not only does this mean scooby might be dead, it also means hes a horrible pet owner because ringworm is very easily treatable
The greatest thing about scooby doo was that they went against their own stereotypes. Daphne looked like she was gonna be a bimbo, she is smart, great at martial arts and kind. Velma is a nerd but uses her skills to solve mysteries but isn't anti social and gets along with Daphne who is suppose to be the mean girl bimbo. She gets along with her opposites Fred looks like the strong jock but is just a himbo who is a simp for traps but is a genius with traps too which does involve engineering and maths Shaggy looks like a scrawny lazy dude but my god have you seen him run? No wonder dude loves his food. He is also insecure but is trying to combat that for his friends. Scooby is a great dane which means he's suppose to be big and scary, but he's a cowardly dog who loves to eat as well. Velma just gives them back their stereotypes and ups it by 200%
U know u got me off guard about simp to trap. i thought u mean femboy and i remember he literally obsessed with an actual trap😅😆 Btw sorry for the bad english
My favorite part is how Mindy said she loved Velma yet decided to write her as the most insufferable, an unlikable character in history! She made velma cynical, mean, judgemental, and racist Like how can you say you love a character for their personality then completely butcher them by making them the opposite of their original personality
She loves Velma, she wants to be her, smart, popular and all that, however here it is shown that she doesn't realize WHY Velma has all that what Mindy wants.
Mindy Kaling went on record on the Conan show admitting to sexual harassment and then extorting her subordinates to keep it secret; "Tell anyone and you're fired." And she wasn't even apologetic about it, either.
I still can't believe they made Velma the opposite of what her actual personality used to be. She was characterized as being a bit shy and socially awkward, especially around people she admired or felt intimidated by. Here, she obnoxiously proclaims to each character that they are shallow and dumber than her right to their face. It's not charming or done in a clever way, it's annoying and ironically lacks self-awareness.
Turning admirable characters into insufferable, smug, hateful, self-absorbed and amoral bastardized versions of themselves, is a weird trend in modern storytelling... Hollywood specifically. When did being an ugly person become encouraged? I suppose when "be yourself" turned into "have no inhibitions", and temper tantrum throwing toddlers weren't put in their place and allowed to grow into adults with horrible personality defects.
Yeah, he hit the nail on the head in saying she's a self insert or OC of Velma. Nothing like the actual character. More like someone annoying who relates to Velma but is nothing like her.
I did notice a trend of in newer series Velma becoming more cynical, I guess because "cynical= smart" and here they cranked it up to 11 to the point of overshadowing the rest of her personality.
Fred wasn't a himbo in most of the shows. He usually came up with the traps and helped Velma deduce the culprits. He was portrayed more as an intelligent art culture guy, if I remember right? They did him so dirty by making him stupid. His original character subverted expectations by placing him in an ascot and making him brainy. The irony is that he brought Velma down to Earth a few times in the old show, where she would talk about something intellectual and he would just fire back with his own input, showing he could understand her, often with her complimenting him or being stunned by his knowledge. Daphne and Shaggy were the comedic relief buffoons, but they would help solve the mysteries too due to their antics and different approaches. Daphne in particular was always a sweetheart, so making her a mean girl is ultra disrespectful to a good role model. Yeah she wasn't super smart, but she would resolve issues all the time with her good nature and social etiquette. She was the 'face of the party' quite often.
And worse, making Daphne the mean girl just destroys her character more because I feel like they took one look at Daphne's main character personalities and went, "Ha, she's just a mean girl" It's literally too easy, they picked the lowest hanging fruit. Because Daphne is a self made, "dumb ditzy" girl who likes fashion and is there for "eye candy" so of course she's a mean girl /j...I'm surprised they didn't make Fred and Daphne the annoying bully couple with Fred being more eye candy, being a jerk, and a dumb ass jock who makes it obvious that his girlfriend is running the show and he's just a lap dog...
Can’t a himbo be an intelligent art culture guy who makes traps? Like come on! He can still be lovable and himbo dumb, but he can also be really smart and passionate about the things he loves! Mystery Inc. people! Mystery Inc!
Saber forcing himself to say “missed a rullet” instead of bullet when talking about scooby doo and laughing about it to himself- is actually by far funnier than this entire show.
I can’t help but think this was a subtle parody of what some might consider “woke” shows. It’s often accused of putting white men in a bad light, but frankly, no man of any color is really portrayed all that positively in this series. Sometimes I feel like I’m only convincing myself it’s satire or parody because I didn’t think anyone could lack this much self awareness. Imagine fucking up so bad you united the entire political spectrum and fundamental ideological opponents on a common cause.
This basically was nail on the head. Take the “oppression ladder” - that thing that determines how oppressed you are - turn that upside down. That’s who the woke crowd try to benefit. Thus those are the ones to be swapped to just for a lazy cash grab. It’s not the blind deaf elder trans black lady man that’s the problem - even if kinda weird to me and many others, it’s the sick in the head politicians and Hollywood making our media swapping races and genders. It’s aggravating, but remember to direct it where it belongs - those using the different types of people as shields, advertising, and voting machines.
@@Darkdjinn79 the Powerpuff Girls reboot had a writter insert himself as a student Blossom was head over heels in love with for some odd reason. Very friggin weird
@@Rihcterwilker Plus, it's not uncommon for þe people behind þe scenes to insert þemselves into þe show, usually as background characters to fill up space when necessary (like, say, at a school during þe day).
@@eliezra83771 well she wasnt hugged, she was kissed, completely different. also plenty of people with anxiety disorders (like myself) hate being touched when having an attack and would make things worse during the attack. It can be a claustrophobic feeling. It varies from person to person. You (not /you/ you, but the general "you") also just shouldn't kiss people when it's not the time or place.
The thing that annoys me about Fred is, that he was the hardest character to mess up imo, his formula has been done before. Hell, a recent character from an adult show that they could've taken inspiration from is Brett from Inside Job. He's the perfect, loveable Himbo that still gets his moments and is a cool character. It's not hard, those characters have been done before, HOW can you mess that up
You mess it up by not doing that formula at all; He's more of a punching bag than a character it feels. This was so originally its own show before having Scooby-Doo plastered on it for recognizablity.
Fred in this "Velma" show ends up being sympathetic, even though they're trying to do the "toxic cis white male" cleche with him and his family. Also the double standard annoys the hell out of me, like it's OK to body-shame a teenage boy, but it's thr biggest sin to body-shame a teenage girl. 😑😐
They did Fred so dirty, and it hurts my soul. Not because of toxic masculinity, but because he was one of the few characters who accurately represented jocks in media. Jocks and gym bros are not _bad._ I was actually surprised when I first started working out at the amount of people willing to give me a hand, and who reassured me that I needn't be ashamed of not being able to lift a lot of weight. For whatever reason, however, Hollywood _hates_ them. Jocks always get portrayed as dumb or mean, when in reality most of them are the exact opposite. Fred was the exception to this rule, and he got absolutely butchered. The creators didn't do anything "subversive" by making him an idiot, because that's the standard in this industry.
I don’t think Hollywood necessarily hates jocks, I mean look at the type of men who are at the healm of beauty in media and Hollywood: muscular, masculine, stereotypically white. I mean look at Kumail Nanjiani. People became OBSESSED with his transformation, even people in the industry. Entertainment usually loves good looking and physically fit people. I think the issue is lazy writing and using tropes and cliches to quickly get the story done for submission and broadcast. It’s easier to create simple characters and simple tropes for execs to understand in a pitch than to create something complex and try to pitch it because it’s gonna take time for that evolution to showcase… and even then, some writing teams just don’t develop their characters in fear of the audience and studio cancelling the project or being upset (I’m looking at you Shameless). But that’s just my opinion and experience being someone who has gone to school for acting: appearance and “type” is DEFINITELY something a part of casting, even in animated works.
Honestly, Fred was such a loveable character. I always loved him because of how much of a strong leader he was to the Mystery Inc. gang. He was a handsome jock who happened to found passion in solving mysteries in this messy group of other meddling kids. He was sometimes cocky because of his looks but it never was malicious or insecure (like Velma is obsessed with portraying him as). They did nothing new with his character, they just gave us a used wet wipe of a character. The OG Fred always appeared as this guy who doesn't look over any of his group's skills but takes the leadership role because he is the most charismatic and decisive... So what they've done to him in this shit show is really disappointing. "Jocks" being portrayed as dense and 'useless' outside of working out is really boring now.
I think there are plenty of good tv/film jocks and in recent years the jock with a heart of gold has become more present. They are usually portrayed as stupid, which is worse as it cultivated the idea sports has to be your whole personality and you can’t love sports and, I don’t know, read. Like a TV/Film jock would never read a book…you are not allowed sports AND intelligence, you get one. But in reality a high school jock clique environment is kinda different from adults at the gym. I have always been the worse at the gym, but I keep showing up and trying to improve and have never been shamed or laughed at either. But I think it’s fair to acknowledge a high school insulated peer group based on being on or associated with a school sports team is a bit different from casually going to a gym with other people at the gym outside of this insulated social system. There’s no status hooked to lifting the most weight in a random gym, there’s a lot of status linked to being the high school superstar who won the big game. And yes that could easily give a teenage boy a HUGE sense of feeling like the most important person in the universe and the universe is just his high school. The problem is Hollywood, at times, has been bad at finding the nuance and humanity within that guy who tends to sit in that prime spot. But I think it’s a lot to say Hollywood fully hates jocks when it is still seen as the desirable thing to be, we just get a lot of the ‘jock needs to learn a lesson’ stories. Like High School musical exist. Even the kinda cliquey sports guys in that film are mostly good guys, just too caught up in their identity as the group that likes Basketball and only likes Basketball. And I could think of more examples with time to think about it.
Mindy grew up with rich parents, never worked a day job & was handed a Hollywood job through her parents contracts & influences. So when she wrote Fred as a spoiled rich kid with no soul. Yeah i can definitely see she's really writing herself. This is what we in the business call "The Projection" & a classic Freudian Slip.
@@auro662 Mm i know, that's why i posted here purposely. Because it turns out, that person who you & other thinks is the original comment poster, Turns out he/she also Copied My Comments 2 Days Ago Before Posting Here 🤭😆🤣.
If the characters were completely original and weren't associated with a pre-existing franchise, I don't think I would mind any of the character designs as much. They don't inherently look bad on their own. They're bad because of the fact they don't look or act like the characters they're supposed to be.
Here's the thing, as a black man, I don't need people to make an existing white character black. If anything that makes me even more mad because it means they couldn't just make an original black character and have them stand on their own two feet.
Here's the thing. Corporations aren't interested in making an original black character and have them stand on their own two feet. Here's the other thing, Velma isn't black.
@@mechanomics2649 wasn't talking about Velma. I know she's not black, still don't care for people getting race swapped for the sake of this inclusivity BS.
To be honest, the way that the show depicts itself, it seems like the only reason Shaggy or "Norville" is black is because Mindy didn't want to be nice to a white male character and since Shaggy is most beloved (due to memes & Iconic voice) they changed his race. This is my speculations because of how infantilised Fred is and how he is portrayed as this dramatic version of what most people on Social Media describe "white men" as being.
@@Theawesomeninja_XD A 'huge' problem? I think that's an overstatement. If race is 'no big deal' like people claim, someone being of a different race in an animated tv show shouldn't be a big deal.
The fact that Velma and Daphne kiss in the 3rd damn episode just shows the absolute lack of engagement even the creators have with this, like they themselves just want to have this done and over with. I’m thinking of Jimmy Neutron and how they spent _multiple seasons_ building up Jimmy and Cindy getting over their petty rivalry and eventually entering a relationship and how much more satisfying it was as a kid to watch them finally get together. I miss that level of long term story telling.
Oh yeah, I remember that. And I remember how them switching bodies helped start it too because when their friends were helping put them back in their original bodies, there was one trait that was convoluted and confusing where it was like "dislike of girls who dislike boys who dislike girls with (random trait) who dislikes boys with (random trait)." They got rid of that (it was obviously Jimmy's which made him keep up a barrier between him and Cindy) and after that Jimmy and Cindy actually started to slowly like each other in future episodes.
@@Envy_the_Darksider “Extreme dislike of girls who dislike boys who dislike girls who dislike show-offy boys who dislike-“ “TOO *_CONFUSING!!_* JUST THROW THAT ONE AWAY!”
I felt the exact same way about Danny Phantom! I loved watching their relationship grow, but even more so as they each developed as characters individually. Sam became much more than just basically a goth social justice warrior, she became a true ally for Danny and put her focus on the true greater good.
Pretty funny how Bluey, a show for kids, has been gaining traction with adult audiences for how likable and relatable it's characters are, while this show is meant for adults, but it's characters are a bunch of unlikable douchebags. Heck, I think Bluey has more respect for it's audience's intelligence than Velma ever could. EDIT: JINKIES! This dumb comment blew up, thread carefully!
@@Alrightythen-es4gvthat’s because Velma is the prime example of A teen’s view on adulthood, that really feels insecure about being perceived as “mature” enough, so he tries so hard with his childish view on adulthood, and ends up looking even more childish in the end.
Why did they make Velma so obnoxiously stupid and close-minded if Mindy said "she's the woman that solves all the mysteries and never gets credit for it" ??? Like?? She was 100% sure that Fred was the killer because he's a rich white guy. Wow, what a detective.
Not so fun fact: In one of Mindy Kaling's shows, she forced a dude to kiss her during acting rehearsals, (Without consent, might I add.) and ‘joked’ on live television that anyone who complained about it would be fired. How the heck people like this get into the animation industry baffles me.
@@wrestlinganime4life288 Yeah, it's an unfortunate reality that many humans will use their power and status as a means to subject others to their personal whims, it's especially sad since many of them project themselves as good people in other areas of their lives, making it difficult to decide whether stories like this are true or just a coworker trying to grab attention at the cost of said person's career 😓
@@starkillersneed it’s all I could think about when she said that joke, along with the way she supported Aziz Anzeri with his SA case as well. She’s very against anyone speaking up against SA it seems
The Velma and Daphni kissing despite hating each other is a trope that if "women scream and hate each other they'll eventually make out because it's hot"
They really couldn't restrain themselves until at least the season finale, so there's no way to go but down for that thread. The Harley Quinn show did it best, a Will They? Won't They? spread across a full season or two between her and Poison Ivy. Didn't feel forced, as you saw the characters' relationship slowly develop and gain those nuances that make their partnership feel truly earned, and not just another Ship come lately.
I love that the recurring feeling people get from Velma is "this sounds like what right wings think being woke is like". This is so in line with what Mindy Kaling says every time she is offered the opportunity to speak
It's uncanny how much she fits with the side-characters from reactionary right-wing fiction like the "Trigger Warning" book (and much less entertaining without the unintentionally badly written right-wing protagonist).
What surprises me the most is how many times I've seen both left and right-wing people be attacked and smeared as "racist" for having near-similar criticisms against this show. It's like even if you don't lean right, someone will somehow still perceive you as "right-wing" or "alt-right" for criticizing something like these shows, even if your criticisms don't make any mention of the race-swapping or anything. This show brought together everyone across the political spectrum in a shared disdain for these dumbass shows.
The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that turning the scooby franchise into a more adult show isn’t a bad idea and it’d be really easy to do. All that would need to be done is to have more mature themes like death, cursing and maybe more violence. Instead Velma choose to make their characters unbearable and overly sexual (even though they’re all still teenagers). If you want to watch a good adult scooby show just watch the supernatural and scooby crossover
@@seasnaill2589 there was another scene where Fred got hurt and started bleeding causing him to freak out because he never saw blood before. Things like that show that scooby can have a more mature setting and raise the stakes without having to drastically change their personalities and go the cheap route with raunchy humor.
Or have the gang be older adults, they split but are getting together because they heard Scooby passed away and it's too big of a media story not to regroup. The funeral goes haywire, there's a Scooby ghost who is...evil!? And the gang gets back together, one last time, to solve who would dare besmirch their dog friend's name. Could be a fun romp through old villains, some who have turned their lives around, others who haven't.
Honestly Scooby-Doo has a lot of potential for having an Adult show/reboot/reimagining. How about a horror-focused one where the ghosts are real and the gang tries to solve mysteries about occults, curses and cults? Or a more grounded, crime-investigation take where its still the premise of catching people masquerading as ghosts, except its the gang getting involved into the criminal mafia or underworld using ghosts as a front to hide their shady work and how the Gang will bring down the entire organization? Or just something similar to Velma, but actually well done
a friend probably showed her the "Velma's Sass" video from mystery inc and said that's all she needs to know about her. It's really the only explanation
"I relate to Velma" ❌ "I'mma fuck the living shit out of this character's personality traits and make her my self-insert because EVERYONE relates to a total asshole" ✔️
Mindy grew up with rich parents, never worked a day job, and was handed a Hollywood job through her parents contacts and influence. So when she wrote Fred as a spoiled rich kid with no soul, she’s really writing herself. This is what we in the business call “projection” and “classic Freudian slip”
Nice plagiarism idiot. If you're gonna shamelessly copy someone else 's statement and pretend it was your own words at least try and make it differ a little 💀
Dear Scrappy Doo, we apologize for all the horrible things we’ve said about you. You are no longer the worst thing to happen to the Scooby Doo franchise. This show is proof of that. Signed all of us.
One of the reasons why Smiling Friends was successful was because despite the gory violence and dark jokes, it still kept the optimistic tone all throughout. It's something that shows like Velma need to learn.
@@michaelstrong5383 Also because it doesn't rely on gory, raunchy humor It's still there, but it's not the entire show, and when they do it, it's handled perfectly
As a person of color myself, the reason I'm tired and done with race swapping is because, more often than not, whenever they switch a character's race, they project a bunch of characteristics in the character that are usually negative, giving a bad look to us poc who support one side or the other.
I mean, as a European, why's it problematic for us to be offended when stereotypical and morbid jokes are made about us in media but not the other way around? Fred is the only white guy left, and has every single stereotype applied to him and is now the butt of every joke. Oh, and of course, he's an antagonist. Did I forget to mention he has a small penis and is murderous? Yeah that too. It's getting ridiculous. It's backwards, what happened to not seeing color and treating everyone the same? It's like modern media wants an emphasis on it by swapping out character's races because we're not "Exotic" Enough to bring in cash or whatever.
I feel like the race swapping could have worked if they did a very specific angle. Make it take place in the same universe as the Scooby Doo gang, but instead of it being the original gang it's like 5 Scooby Doo fans and their dog (each of them obviously an analogue of the original gang) banding together and trying to emulate the original gang and struggling due to a combination of inexperience, dysfunctionality, and desperately trying to copy their heroes instead of just playing to their own strengths. A. You could make them travel all throughout Asia, granting both diversity of cast as well as setting and monsters (let's be real, Southeast Asian ghosts are awesome). B.There is plenty of room for not only humor but character growth as they mature and learn to grow into their respective roles while still being unique. C. It could serve as sort of a commentary in of itself on remakes. The gang fails when they try to badly and mindlessly copy the success of the originals, but succeed when they learn to play to their own strengths and correctly emulate the parts that made the originals GOOD. D.Big finale where they finally meet their heroes and work together on a big case! Seriously though imo the problem isn't race swapping so much as an utter lack of imagination. If they did the same thing without the race swaps it would still be just as terrible.
@@MrRawrCEO That would've worked so much better. Then they could've been much more creative with the character designs and writing too, had the writing been any good in the first place, I mean.
This is coming from a guy as white as tofu, but here's my two pence Race swaping should only be used if it helps tell the story or to emphisise the point. Otherwise, it should just be for variety, like they did on She-Ra. The WORST you can do is race swap where it makes no sense. You can make Superman or Dorothy Gale black as they can fit in the stories they tell. But you wouldn't make Heracles Chinese as there'd be no way he would be. Don't flay me if I said something wrong.
Yep...I genuinely thought the first Scooby-Doo live action movie was going to be the worst thing to happen to Scooby, but I guess I was too naive; and I'm sorry, Scrappy-Doo, Film Flam, sorry guys. I didn't think you were that bad, Scrappy(well, when compared to this pile of garbage, anyway), because it does a STRONG disservice to Velma Dinkley; and her character, and just makes her a hateful jerk. And also, just plain TAKING Scooby OUT of the SHOW?! Are you kidding me?!! Am I having a hallucination right now, where I imagined an awful Scooby-Doo show; which also, made fun of Fred's, uh, Oscar Meyer Wiener? And Shaggy looked like a random generic rapper guy with a bad haircut? I...I'm not hallucinating this, am I? It actually exists. Aw; man...I've been a huge fan of Scooby-Doo for years, watching it was early as the one where Shaggy had a red shirt, and all those random 70's crossovers(even though I was too young to get who they were), and the one with the best theme song(What's New Scooby-Doo?) And even saw the Harvey Birdman episode where Fred gets Harvey Birdman to defend Shaggy in court, it was hilarious. Only 15 minutes, but it was one of the best episodes of one of the best shows ever. I sure hope we'll see the Scooby-Doo franchise try harder(or actually try, next time), when making something relating to Scooby-Doo, just saying...
Another thing I wanna add is all the original characters despite them all having their own unique personalities, designs and choices of style felt like they wanted to be in a mystery group together because they generally wanted to be friends with each other. Despite the differences and stereotypes of “nerds”, “jocks” or “Pretty girls” not being allowed to be in the same friend group. This shows version however feels forced, like Velma, Fred and Daphne are only hanging around each other because they have to.
Honestly, the original characters not only wanted to be friends but they also never fit into their stereotypes either. Appearance wise they did have their stereotypical looks and personalities but not to the point where they were actually walking stereotypsed. Fred for example, despite being a Jock he wasn't just dumb and "useless outside of sports". He was a charismatic leader who in the way was the heart of the group, kind of like a safe space because he was emotionally there for everyone. Daphne was a pretty rich girl but she was also a strong character herself and in some adaptation she's seen fighting with martial arts. Velma was the closest to her stereotype I think but even then... She wasn't portrayed like a complete socially awkward moron, rejected by everyone. She was confident and liked doing her job, Fred did all the speaking since he was best at it. Shaggy was the comedic relief but he also was a great character used to bring the group closer together, him and Scooby where the heart of the group in the sense they represented their differences not being an issue but a strength. These new versions don't work together because they're just plastered muck on an animation tablet framed as "original interpretations" for the series The characters are incompatible because they're all insufferable and make zero sense. You can only go so far with infantilising a character before the jokes run stale (they already are) so for one of the MAIN characters to be portrayed like that? Horrific move.
Aside from the character assassination of the entire Mystery gang, Mindy's garbage, stereotypical, one note characters are so poisonous it's hard to even entertain the idea that ANY of them get along.
@@apll9146 YES! Exactly, took the words right out of my mouth. That is why I also used quotes when saying “Nerd” or “Jock” because their not full on stereotypes, they have some characteristics of those stereotypes but personally and character wise their not.
@@aurorakitty9415 it made the og characters that big more special and relatable. It's a representation of how to take a stereotype and better it. This show is just... Painful. I have nothing against cynical characters (you can get good commentary out of them) but Velma is just unlikeablely ignorant and self centred with very little justification
@@apll9146 Another big reason as to why they don't fit into the stereotypes is because...they actually have a personality other than the stereotype. While Fred was meant to be the leader-esque and straightman of the original show, there was still that hint of him learning about traps as a hobby, and later on the next shows used this as part of his personality - They eventually made him to be irrationally and childishly excited when it came to things he genuinely likes. Daphne also didn't have much of a personality at first other than to be the support of the group, but later adaptations also managed to use this and incorporated her as the 'mother' or even the straightman sometimes (only because of Fred's childishness lol). She's still clumsy and curious at times, but that just makes her humane - Even mothers may have goofy moments at times (yes, even for a martial artist, especially one who hasn't been in training for a while. Also because martial artists don't just magically know how to use their skills in any time that requires action). Velma did have a personality - And actually, in the first ever show, she _was_ a bit socially awkward - but not to the extent that it makes you cringe or uncomfortable. She was just shy at times (such as the Johnny crossover episode) that it really made it more endearing rather than annoying. I admit, I actually like the 'intelligent girl has soft moments' a lot more than the sarcastic and snarky Velma in Mystery Inc. (Well, I have a lot of things I dislike in Mystery Inc., mainly being how they made Velma and Shaggy a relationship. It was implied before, but previous shows never actually took it seriously, so I was disappointed that they took it seriously). Shaggy and Scoob had a lot in common even during the first show, which is the whole point to them being best friends. However Scoob was actually the more sarcastic and snarky one while Shaggy was more air-headed that it makes his occasional clever comments really funny. It's also pretty funny that he's a chic magnet when all he wants is the food (also this being another reason why I dislike the Mystery Inc. adaptation of Shaggy and Velma. How was it even possible for Shaggy to accept Velma's confession without actually being serious? He could straight up dematerialize if he's not interested in you - Honestly he makes it apparent. Plus he _has_ shown to be serious with previous relationships [such as when he met Crystal from that alien movie] - He _knows_ when to be serious when he has to be. Sorry, some rants about this show).
It is her self insert jagdadgjjgrs I feel really bad to all the people that want Velma to go through an actual character Arc, because knowing Mindy and how disgusting of a person she is, that's not happening.
2 theories. 1: Mindy was going to make an original show with the main character just being a self-insert of her and it would have sucked pretty bad, but executives made her slap Scooby Doo characters onto it. 2: Mindy doesn’t know shit about Scooby Doo but knows it’s popular so she made a really crappy show about it.
The thing I hate mostly is them thinking that adults want to only watch extremely cynical stories with disgusting jokes and unnecessary nudity or violence, like holy shit, are we really such monsters??? I still enjoy some simple lighthearted stories that make me feel good (and I like horrors too). Also, school setting in a story for adults? LAZY.
A shoe I can think of that was somewhat adult that seemed to do pretty well with a high school setting was Clone High. Sadly, it only got one season, but I think of it were to come back it would get a huge following if the reboot stayed true to the original
I think the most unforgivable sin of this show is that they're four episodes in and haven't solved a single mystery. In many ways, I think that Brennan from Bones was the Velma show that we all desired.
I completely agree. Brennan was a smart and strong lead who solved mysteries but struggles to interact with people at times. Here, Velma is a total jerk who hates everyone and is honestly kinda of dumb.
Honestly taking several episodes to solve a mystery isn't a bad thing. Infact i would argue its alot more compelling if pulled off right. I just think the problem is the writing is bad and the jokes are terrible
Explain, in detail, what she "changed"?? Is Velma a nerd? Yes. Is Velma into solving mysteries? Yep. Velma is an archetype, losers. The original show set the pace. Her character has never been deep. None of them have been. If you've watched or read a newer version of these characters and they vibes with you, great. Every version will not.
Oh, no one deserved what they did to Fred. Poor Fred. So kind and gentle. You didn't deserve this dude. I mean... So... words cannot do you justice. They did you wrong. You'll be remembered. And this show will be remembered. For two very different reasons.
Everyone go support Harley Quinn instead so they don’t cancel it 😂 because we know these studios love cancelling a potentially mid-to-long running series. Plus that show imo takes the “alternative” switch of these well known characters and uses it to tell a great story while also being kind of relatable to reality.
You know, an adult version of Scooby Doo absolutely could work. You could have them expand their idea from paranormal mysteries to full-blown CSI/ cold case mysteries. They can get down to the origins of century old legends, help uncover criminals from unsolved crimes, have them go from bright-eyed naive teenagers to more jaded adults when they have to deal with the real fucked up shit people have done in the cases they take on. Everyone except Velma. Velma could be the person so enraptured by mysteries and the macabre, that she could be the gang's light in the darkness, reminds them to take breaks, takes on a good portion of the work and is always there for her friends. She could be into figuring out all the mysteries they take on because her mother went missing and it's entirely unknown of how she went missing. It could lead to a weird cult, or even that her mother just left her to start over. That could work!! And instead we got Velma, a show that a 12 year old would write thinking it would make a good adult show.
you are absolutely right. a more adult spin on scooby-doo would work exceptionally well if it was just the tonal difference and darker mysteries, not "haha small peepee" jokes and forced wokeness. them upgrading from men in masks to real monsters and the paranormal or serial killers (taking on a more mystery horror/thriller genre than comedic mystery) and through the trauma losing their spark would be an interesting plot point to pursue, and would give the characters actual reasons to argue and be jerks to each other. you could probably get a good two or three episode arc centered around the gang splitting up and going their separate ways because they're all done with seeing real people getting hurt. all except Velma, who is the only one who stays passionate. she begs everyone to stay, to help her finish at least this one last mystery, they're so, so close...but one by one they grab their bags and leave with a mumble apology, an "I just can't do it anymore". Then Velma, determined to solve the mystery despite being alone, finds herself way in over her head and potentially captured by the killer they've been hunting. Perhaps Scooby is the only one that stayed with her and he escapes and gets Shaggy, who calls Daphne and Fred, and the gang storms the castle to save Velma and get the killer behind bars. imagine the fight scenes!! ahhhh we were robbed
Mindy Kaling made that decision, she wanted to make Velma just like her. Her other characters like Disgust and Taffyta are both kinda mean like that too, correct me if I’m wrong but I think she likes to play the role of mean characters.
I like what Charlie/Moist Critical proposed. Whenever shows like these come out, the internet should nominate one person to watch them. Content like Velma isn't worth our collective capacity. There is a wealth of content with good storytelling out there that deserves our attention.
Yup. People are always like “why are bad shows always getting renewed!!???” Because you’re watching them. Hate watching still gives these sorts of shows views and revenue, and therefore they get promoted to more people and therefore are given the green light to make even more seasons. When you give a show attention, even negative attention, it does nothing but benefit the people funding it. You don’t want anymore Velma seasons? Don’t see it. You don’t want anymore Transformer films? Don’t watch them. Don’t give the shit that you don’t like views, don’t give them money, don’t give them engagement. That’s the only way these shitty shows stop existing.
@@gothicMCRgirl Exactly. Leave it to the relatively few review outlets (yeah there's thousands of reviewers, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the 320 _million_ potential viewers in the USA alone) to watch and dunk on it. Watch _their videos_ trashing it, don't watch the show itself. Or if you must, pirate it.
That was the response Mindy gave I'm willing to bet the reality was someone at the top had a feeling this was gonna be a shit show and didn't want them to compromise Scooby as a character so told them they can make a "adult Scooby Doo show" but you can't use Scooby.
Reminder for everyone: Do not hate watch this show! Just completely ignore it. If we want to tell HBO max that we do not want this show, we don't watch it.
Whenever I think about good meta humor, I think of Ace Attorney as a golden standard. It's really funny as it pokes fun at the absurd tropes happening, ones which often can be found in both Japanese and western media. Additionally, it earns the right to make those meta jokes by having genuinely well-written characters and stories instead of just covering for bad writing, including one of the most well-written and emotional character arcs I've ever seen(Rayfa in SoJ). They use those absurd tropes to add to the actual story. Even Godot, who on the surface is mostly just a one-note coffee addict joke, is written in a way that keeps that joke consistently funny and foreshadows his eventual character arc where he's revealed to be so much more.
I mean, it's angered pretty much EVERYBODY on the internet and has a FAR lower audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes than critic rating (normally shows and movies have a higher audience rating than critical rating and if they don't, it's usually not by THIS MUCH). I swear, if somebody at WB or CN swindles the creative rights of Ed, Edd, & Eddy and tries to reboot it, we riot.
Like maybe a dog or something. Perhaps a great dane that for some reason has human intelligence, loves snacking, and has a heart of gold, though admittedly is a little cowardly. Eh, probably a bad idea.
You can pretty much say that with all the characters in this show, remove the names and designs of the main characters and most people would never know this has anything related to Scooby Doo in it.
Velma is absolutely Mindy's OC. She probably felt ostracized and rejected in highschool because she saw herself as a nerd, and seeing the nerdy icon Velma literally become a sex icon with the rise of the internet, she had a few extra bucks to throw at living her dream of being the same shitty person but loved regardless for all her very obvious faults. Too bad she had to drag everyone along with her. Also, why are so many adult shows created with high schoolers in mind? Like I get that highschool is the preset for everything because it's so relatable, just about about everyone will experience highschool, but why does this show have to be set in school? There's no real mysteries, and the show tries so hard to be relatable, but it's very clearly an afterthought, the show is about Mindy and nothing else. Everything in the show struggles to be even decent, the animation is basic at best, the pacing is a slog with every joke needing those seconds to land, and just constant talking down to their own audience. I don't really get the reason why this show exists other than the show runner has a chip on their shoulder and wanted to relive highschool in the way she wishes it went.
In my opinion, so many shows are set in high school because its easy set up, characters are interacting with each other because they go to the same places and are affected by the same powers. Makes it easier to pull everything togheter
i think its not a good idea to put in an oc that is 100% supposed to be you. its fine to let them have relatable issues that you as a writter can identify with but to have them be a 1:1 fictional you never works out well
But yeah, I agree… I wish there was more young adult centered content. I think Atlanta did it best with showcasing mid-to-late 20s - early 30s adult slice of life (surrealist) situations without forcing it to be set in one place like work or college. But it seems most of these writers just forget what it was like to be 20-30 out of college (or for some never in college) working part-time, living with parents or in their own apartment, etc. or feel as if a show about that is boring lol
When you talked about that “kiss” I thought about the Lumity kiss and how much more satisfying it was. Because Dana Terrance and her team did something you mentioned; PACING. They actually showed them as enemies to friends to lovers and it worked.
@@blueflare3848 not to mention that Velma is basically what Luz could have become (AKA Belos) if she kept trying to do things on her own WITHOUT admitting that she is wrong. Seriously! This Velma seems to try to solve the mystery by only basing herself on pop culture that she saw WITHOUT bringing something new to her. You understand what i mean?
The problem is that the character of Velma Dinkley was changed not update to a modern era but to become Mindy Kaling's self insert. At least in "I am not Starfire" comic the author Mariko Tamaki's self insert Mandy (daughter of Starfire) was an original character; a terrible self-insert original character but still original. Mindy Kaling has appropriated the character Velma Dinkley to be her self-insert mouth piece, and that my opinion is worse.
When you said "set the table" at the Daphne/Velma kiss part, I said to myself "they cooked dinner and then just put it on the table without setting it" and got a mental image of spaghetti just loose on a counter top.
They could have made a show about Velma, now an adult, as a homicide detective. That's an interesting premise for a show aimed at the now-adults who grew up with Scooby-Doo. It's also something that couldn't be done without the adult rating, and because it's a cartoon the absolutely not how it works in real life tropes (like getting DNA results back in mere hours) would be excusable.
Yes!! Especially since the true crime and murder mystery genres have a huge audience! Some cheeky sarcastic dialogue and dry humor from Velma would have worked so well but i think they tried too hard in this series
I think it means one more thing: That miss Mindy is insufferable person that never got in touch with real life and lives in bubble created for sake of own insecurity and power fantasies.
Frankly, I kind of like the idea of a Scooby gang that’s just starting out, so the kids are antagonistic toward each other. Kind of an enemies to friends thing. I mean, it worked for The Breakfast Club. But this, this is not The Breakfast Club.
@@GrndAdmiralThrawn it’s okay to start out fresh like that, but this show did it just to insert stereotypes and thought it’s smart to make commentary on several stereotypes ended up being stereotypical
The writing is like a terrible attempt at making "woke" characters by someone that only knows right wing stereotypes and dogma and tropes. It's just such a massive middle finger to the original series and it's concepts
There's 1 true positive to this whole show. They finally made something that everyone agrees in. No matter the beliefs, race, religion, nor the ideologies, everyone hates it. To me, it's always spectacular to create something that unifies people.
Upon seeing the show, rumor is Putin and Zelenskyy immediately started negotiating an armistice so that the world could unite in a campaign against Mindy Kaling.
@mekhie.r.duncan3825 it's a hoax, the black girl who is named "scoobi" isn't her name, it's Gigi. Someone just took a screen shot of the 3rd episode and thought hey, why not make an assumption that this black female with Norville is Scooby-Doo. I just wanted to clarify. Nonetheless I hate this show with a passion.
Velma has a 1.6/10 on IMDB and a 7% audience score on Rotten Tomato. Daphne: "Fred, aren't you going to say it?" Fred: "What? There's no mystery to solve here...."
@@cameronbosch1213 no critic would dare say dislike a show with a black lead, that would mean instant termination and cancellation. Most they can do is give it a less than stellar score. Audiences however can dislike something as much as they want
it's not because of the fact that some characters are asian/black when they weren't before, but the fact that they were specifically chosen as what they were is what the issue is for me. the fact that prettygirl daphne is an east asian person, dubiously-on-drugs shaggy is black, and brainy velma is south asian all feel really racially charged towards stereotypes. i know velma's race is because of her voice actress, but with all the other stuff on top of it, it starts to look more suspicious than coincidental
EXACTLY! it’s all so stereotyped. this show wants to go against stereotypes sooo bad but then uses those stereotypes frequently. it agitated me as an asian american who is also queer, like some of the characters in the show
I love how Mystery Incorporated actually does clever adult humor way better than Velma ever could. If small D insults, idea juice and humping roaches is what passes for adult humor these days, then we're in trouble.
Not really, we have The Simpsons and they are not this stupid. That show can be stupid sometimes, but not brain dead like this. This is the equivalent of saying animation is for kids. Uhh..family guy?
Nah it's just whoever is in charge at HBOMAX wants to cancel good adult comedies while green lighting garbage like this. I seriously can't believe they deleted Close Enough & kept this trash fire.
That's because Mystery Incorporated treated Velma's flaws like flaws. When she was wrong, she was treated as being wrong. Whether it was being high and mighty or the way she treated Shaggy when they were together, if she was doing something that was disliked by others, the show was aware of it and didn't try to pretend she was in the right. Whereas this Velma said straight up "I'm always right about everything," and it wasn't treated as a joke, or something to proven wrong, they just let that be. Her character isn't allowed to be wrong, so being arrogant like that is encouraged rather than being treated as something that makes her look like a jerk.
I'm at least glad the Velma show exists. Because of its existence, a bunch of people said to watch Mystery Incorporated (2010) instead, so I did. Holy crap, it was amazing.
I was turned off by be cool scooby doo because its look and the ads. Be cool actually got a legit laugh out of me while velma is not funny at all. I think I judge Be cool to harshly.
I feel like that's why velma was made. it's not made to be a show, but rather its existence for being widely noticed for being beyond awful is a psychological marketing scheme to make you feel like watching the far better scooby doo shows which most of them are most likely found on HBOmax.
It’s fascinating to see an adult animated entry that has so much distain for adult animation, it’s fans, and the Scooby doo franchise. It feels like Mindy connected to Velma being nerdy, but projected a superiority complex onto the character .
Ok time to do the writers job for them, here's roughly how I would do in one season with quick summaries: Episodes 1&2 Introduce the characters (the personalities can stay the same as a starting point) as Velma solves some mysteries around the school Episodes 3-5 - Velma starts struggling to solve mysteries dues to her lack of social skills and filter Daphne helps out getting the information Velma needs having noticed the events of episodes 1&2 and develops an interest in mysteries herself. Shaggy is asked by the school to help Fred control his temper but currently failing. Episodes 6-9 - Velma and Daphne continue mystery solving with Velma becoming less hostile to people and Daphne getting smarter. Fred starts being able to control himself with help from Shaggy but also gets Shaggy to be more impulsive and speak his mind faster leading to Shaggy saying "like" a lot, Fred and Shaggy start getting recruited as extra hands for Daphne & Velma a few times. Episodes 10-11 - Big mystery hits the school requiring all 4 characters to work together (I would make this the first actually paranormal mystery). Episode 12 - Graduation with the main cast deciding to be become a team of investigators and a final scene of them meeting Scooby.
It’s irritating how they only made Fred this way so they can have a ‘let’s rip on white guys’ button anytime they want, and they abuse the living hell outta that button yet mindy and her character are oblivious to how irritating she is and how woke she tries to come off when she’s arguably the most insufferable person on the show… also random note but why does her mom not age a single day? Just to patronize? Who knows it’s literally inclined
And they keep metion his dong and comes off Werid when characters bring it up like when Velma mom said you didn’t me tell Fred a small dong it’s why would he say that or why would he know
@@Steven9567 yeah they just wanna low key bash ant straight white guy especially rich ones saying they all have small members and it’s so forced it’s like Velma’s voice actor has a bone to pick with someone so she went and made a show just to talk her shit it’s really sad she comes off like that one UA-camr who made it ‘big’ and got their own late night show who just can’t shut up about other races and men whilst sucking her self off
Ahh yess. You can raise up the voices of minorities without putting white people down. They gave us a diverse cast only to make a bunch of anti white guy jokes. Why not just have a white character along with the diverse cast. It hurts my brain
My issue with the race swapping isnt that they were race swapped- its that it feels like they only did that to use Velma’s new position as a POC as a gag or an in to make these horrifically unfunny “im cool and woke” jokes
That and the fact that they raceswapped literally every member of the gang EXCEPT the one they portray as a racist rich white dude with smol peepee. Like you honestly can't get more blatantly hateful than that, and Saber out here calling people stupid for having it bother them. Honestly my biggest critique of this review.
@@QuincyQuinn95 Saber have that mentality of most creator have that if you don't like this character of color or LGBT or race swapping then you are automatedly a racist & bigot homophobe without hearing out the people why people criticism the character.
yes this is why i don't like race swapping that much because most modern media portray race swapping as like you said "cool & woke" but in reality they just making a fucking racist insult especially to white people and when people call them out, they use the race card to avoid criticism. Look i don't mind character race swap as long as the character was well written and the story is interesting.
You know the race swapping thing wouldn’t be such a problem but despite mindy’s comment about race not being integral to these characters they sure do bring up how white Fred is all the time…almost like a weird fixation with boiling down characters to base characteristic and degrading them for it…
I dont agree swapping just stay true to the original and my problem is that most of the time its done for some agenda purpose like getting rid of white people
Agreed. Not a big fan of Saber's take on this. I agree with him, but for different reasons. Race swapping is a problem for writing because it adds a false perception of depth on behalf of the writers. It's completely unnecessary and adds nothing to the plot and has become a crutch for writers who have trouble actually writing OC. If whiteness was such a problem in the original, write some great OCs of color. If it really didn't matter, you'd just leave them the original race they were and focus on the STORY...which is what people want.
I think race or gender swapping as a rule just shouldn’t be done. Though it’s not really a hill I’m going to die on. And it’s been done decently before (Starbuck from BSG)…though the fact is that usually if the character is race/gender swapped it’s usually to get rid of white people/men and not necessarily for artistic purposes. Here though…god. It was so vitriolic and hostile.
The fact that they just called black Shaggy by his legal name instead of giving him dreadlocks speaks volumes about how much the creators actually care about the franchise.
LITERALLY where are his dreads. long afro. give him a black hair style that reflects shaggy's name sake in the first place!! like saber I really liked all of the character designs but the lack of long hair on shaggy really bothered me. it feels like a very Interesting choice to race swap a white guy into a black dude named SHAGGY but then give him an undercut with very little length at all. screams diversity brownie points while reinforcing the stigma surrounding black guys having long dreads 💀
This is my problem with Shaggy in this show! He needs SHAGGY HAIR they gave him clean short, maintained dreads when he should have long dreads coverage his face or an afro
I think what a lot of these "adult" versions of shows feel way more immature than the other versions. Like, look at mystery incorporated. It was able to take the Scooby formula and make it more mature, while this feels just like the thing that every edgy teenager would make. It's especially sad because I actually believe, that a Scooby show specifically for older people had some potential for leaning more into the horror and complexity of the stories.
@@meyeneetuks4680 I recently rewatched the entire show like a year and a half ago and as an adult it still definitely holds up extremely well. I honestly liked it more now than when I was a kid.
As a POC, I hated how they seemed to only use the race swapping to gain attention for their show. They do nothing with those changes. Same with making Velma gay. Like Saber said, it seems like the changes were made just to check off boxes for what a “woke children’s cartoon” should have. That’s the most frustrating thing about this show, if they cared even a little bit it could’ve been a decent show. They clearly had some other script written and WB had them throw on the Scooby-Doo IP for clicks
I'm not a POC but I am queer and I partially disagree with this take. while yeah you're probably right that warner prob doesn't care about us, POC and queer people irl don't exist with a thorough reason or agenda behind them, we just are. I think we should be allowed to exist in media without the people behind it "doing something with it."
I honestly don't think you HAVE to give a good reason or write a story about someone's identity. It's a little off that white and straight are just the default and if you stray away from it you suddenly HAVE to explain it and put it in the story somehow or else it's just "woke pandering". Like, can't a gay dude just exist? Unrelated to this one but I see everyone get up in arms whenever a character is gay and say that "there needs to be a reason or else it's bad story telling and adds nothing to the story.", as if a character's sexuality has to be explained. It comes off like LGBTQ people HAVE to have some reason why they personally exist, rather than just simply existing. As if being LGBTQ is some sort of plot point in your life. I guess this is unrelated but kind of related. If you made Velma white you wouldn't have to explain her race, but if you make her black you have to give an explanation as to why you made her that way? I get that you technically "changed" her race from past iterations. But do we really need a plot point where they poorly handle some Indian (she's actually Indian and not African America, but I guess everyone just sees dark skin and thinks "black" regardless) stereotype since they can't actually get identity political commentary correct.
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The only people who would defend Velma/Mindy Kailing are the people who think when a girl loves a guy who only sees her as a friend, he only acts like a jerk because he secretly loves her. I’m sorry, who’s the jerk then?
m.ua-cam.com/video/i-eWhtSZ2oY/v-deo.html
"I identify so much as her character." Proceeds to erase who Velma is as a character to self insert herself.
like a fanfic writer.
@@flamestoyershadowkill Correction, like a really NEW fanfic writer who hasn't gotten called out for it yet
@@flamestoyershadowkill That is an insult to fanfic writers. At least fanfic writers respect or care about the source material, instead of trashing it like Mindy did.
It came off more she wants everyone to love her like they do the OG Velma and no one does
I thought it was odd that she says as instead of with
What I hate about these "mature" adult shows is that they usually pointlessly portray the characters as jerks. Like adults can't relate to people who are kind to each other or anything 😒
@secretudontknow 😒
THESE kinds of people can't. These rich bitches who've never been around anyone but nasty, bitter, vulgar people.
@Correctical 😒😒
I heard that was the point for Velma. You’re supposed to hate the characters and watch their character development.
@@Stonex180 It feels less like the characters are being mean and the writers being mean to the viewer via the characters.
One positive about Velma: It might actually create world peace by uniting literally everybody in hating it.
Yeah I have seen a grand total of 0 people like this. People legit liked Big Mouth. And I assumed the people who liked that one would like this too. But from what I can tell I was wrong.
Game of Thrones tried and failed at that, so i dont see why Velma should be able to :/
(And yes, im still salty after 4 years)
I'm pretty sure Putin likes Velma. He's that bad
@@littlegreen4129 this show has done the impossible...beating game of thrones in almost 100 percent hatred.
Most importantly, it has made people appreciate the real Scooby-Doo gang and franchise more.
Not only does Shaggy not act like himself, he doesn't even LOOK like himself. And i'm not talking about the skin color here. He looks like a goddamn Total Drama Island OC
That's cause it's not Shaggy. They just replaced his character entirely.
@@shwahgameryes
Hey that's an insult to TDI
Huh, I wasn’t the only one thinking it looked like tdi.
I didn’t even think that, but now that I’m looking at this version of Shaggy? You’re right.
"Who is this for?!"
Mindy. It's for Mindy, especially seeing as she's using Velma as a self insert. I feel like I'm getting an in depth look at her personal life, problems, and views. All of which have convinced me that I *never* want to meet Mindy.
Yep, same here, I want to stay as far away from Mindy as possible. Because she not only ruined one of my favorite series(Scooby-Doo), or at least, helped ruin it, but who knows, she could make it worse in the future. Me? I'd rather just go back to the better Scooby-Doo cartoons, like "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo"(the one with a catchy theme song) and, "What's New, Scooby-Doo?"(my favorite of the Scooby-Doo cartoons, and in my opinion is the one with the BEST theme song), but there's also "Mystery Incorporated", which I haven't seen myself yet; but I hear it's great. Grew up with reruns of the original series from the 60s, (because I'm not a time traveler, at least, not yet; anyways...)
Totally agree
@Peter Hanson Yeah; I also agree, and yeah, if anyone else's listening, if you want to see darker interpretations of Scooby-Doo(done right), there's "Scooby-Doo and The Witch's Ghost"(which has an awesome punk girl band performance at the end, AND, it's also got Tim Curry, as the main villain, the novelist, Ben Ravencroft!), and my favorite of the Scooby-Doo movies: obviously, is Zombie Island, because I didn't think they'd actually go and make it as dark as they did. I mean, at this point in time, I'd definitely take Scooby-Doo and The Spindly Johnny(Caddicarus reference!), over Velma! Seriously. They took Scooby out of the show, made Fred dumb, and made both Velma and Daphne annoying, and obnoxious. I too, miss when CN weren't trying dumb things like horrible reality shows and barely any cartoons, and also, mentioning that CARTOON NETWORK themselves said they DIDN'T NEED CARTOONS anymore! How do you even do something THAT dumb?
I want to Help convert her to friendship
Except given her background growing up, she's more like this show's Fred than Velma
The best part about the Johnny Bravo crossover was when they bumped into each other and both lost their glasses. Velma, of course, said "my glasses! I can't see without my glasses!" Johnny, on the other hand, was all "my glasses! I can't be seen without my glasses!" 🤣🤣🤣
@p o p robot
@@MiyuwiTV robots are useful for different important task this on the other hand is a bot that targets channels with its only goal is bait
@@hamnporkgamer lol yeah I agree, this person is an insult to robots all around the world, at least robots do useful things to society
By reading your comment, I was suddenly taken back 20 years in time... to my grandparents house. Cartoon Network was a bit exclusive back then and they were the only ones in my family who had it. I loved watching Scooby Doo and Johnny Bravo, and I remember that crossover so well! A good memory indeed.
That was fantastic.
The biggest issue I have about Velma is that she literally is just Mindy Kaling, she is literally just self-inserting herself to be as rude and cynical as possible
@The Owl can you stop spamming this shit??....
@theowldidthat The bots are evolving.
@@codycrawford7842 they gained an extra brain cell
I don't know if I buy the self-insert theory. As these hateful, smug, hypocritical and amoral characters are a trend in Hollywood in general. I think it's writers just trying to write how they think young people are these days.
All these portrayals of maladjusted and socially defective cretins and weirdos not as flawed characters who need redemption, but good guys and heroes, says a lot though... It's not subverting expectations either, it's just bizarre character writing.
yeah it comes across as poorly constructed fan fiction
They didn't race swap Shaggy, they turned him into an entirely different character
Right? Like, I can still imagine the tattooed blonde hipster at 5:14 sounding and acting like a Shaggy. But not this character. I actually guffawed when I first saw him because of how un-shaggylike the design is.
It's like a Ship of Theseus of a character. If you replace everything about a character's personality AND looks, and only keep its name (and green shirt and brown pants, because that's all what matters when it comes to Shaggy I guess?) can it still be called the same character?
Shaggy isn't in the show. there is only Norville, and we all hate him.
@@ObieDobieZoomer I know this sounds like i am heartless for saying this but I hope that this entire velma universe die painfully.
I can see why Shaggy doesn’t like being called “Norville” now.
The reason they did that was to probably have the character not too connected with shaggy since the other characters are more comparable to their original counterparts
For a writer that is against stereotypes, Mindy sure did make every character in this show a living stereotype.
She isn't one of the writers.
Part and parcel for the pc crowd nowadays.
How tho? Most of the characters aren’t really stereotypes
@@ThisIsntWhatYouExpected I mean, just Velma by herself proves my point lol.
@@as3957 Doesn't matter she paid for this sh*t to be real
They really did miss the chance to make The Mistery Inc a small, struggling detective agency that somehow gets caught up in a very high profile murder case.
There was the chance to take a sirious story and tell it through the goofyness of scooby doo, creating humour from the clashes of genres.
And the creators saw these options, and then also saw a dumpsterfire next to them, and decided to run with that.
To be honest, I’m not trying to be racist but they should make new black characters instead of making already existing characters black.
@@filipinodude5457 It’s really not racist to say that. White people getting blackwashed is the same thing as black people being whitewashed, or any other race for that matter.
@@filipinodude5457 Making Velma Indian is due to Mindy Kaling's own insecurities when it comes to her own ethnicity.
@@filipinodude5457 i wouldn't care if shaggy just acted like shaggy
@@filipinodude5457 tbh i wouldn’t give a sh!t if shaggy was still shaggy. everything about him was changed and now he’s just some nerd. i want the sloppy, possibly high, hungry, weirdo back.
Y'know what makes me sad? An adult mature Mystery Gang could honestly be awesome. They wouldn't even have to stretch that far; they could just lean into the horror and crime aspects the franchise already possesses, but instead of toning the severity of it down like it usually does, it could be focused on instead. Like the Mystery Gang fighting *_actual_* monsters or solving genuine missing person or murder cases with the risk of danger and death. You could keep the same banter between the crew as coping mechanisms for their more grisly professions while showcasing how harrowing it would actually be to put yourselves in the line of fire to unearth a mystery. But nah, we get this crap instead
If you want a recommendation to cheer you up, there’s a book called Meddling Kids by Edgar Cantero a Watchmen-esque deconstruction of Scooby Doo that crosses it with elements of Stephen King’s It. It even has BIPOC and gay characters in a way that doesn’t come across as more pandering than progressive like the Velma show does
Just watch Mike Tyson Mysteries if you want an adult mature Scooby-Doo cartoon, like Saber alluded to at the end.
scooby doo mystery incorporated is decently mature atleast as far as scooby doo goes
Omg I want to make this into a video game. That might save the Francise
Surprised no one has mentioned the Scooby-Doo Project yet in this thread.
What's weird about Mindy's quote is that she says she relates to her character, but then *completely* reworks her whole personality from being likeable to being detestable. So either she doesn't actually identify with her character originally and is just virtue signalling, or she is atrocious at capturing the personality of the original Velma. Neither option is good.
Or maybe she is jealous of her
Velma in this isn't Velma. It's a mindy self insert and makes me never want to meet her.
Possibly, she depicted what she saw as the OG Velma. Which is possibly the worst, since that means she's completely unhinged.
The creators of the show: "We want to make a mature show that adults will enjoy, and adults want to see edgy adult humor, not a dog."
Meanwhile, adults: *Are watching Bluey even when their kids aren't around*
Did the animation cast from Drawn Together get rehired?
Did the writing staff for Drawn together get rehired?
I gotta admit. I like Paw Patrol too.
IS THIS A CURSE??? I DON’T WANT TO BE BANNED TO A LIFE OF BLUEY
And also watch anime, funny to think the Japanese can have such a diverse genres of animation for all ages that most people can enjoy and even have actual adult shows without it being a dumb comedy. Western Adult Animation is really lacking in diversity in genres.
this comment LOLLL
Honestly Mindy comes across as a narcissist. "I relate so much with Velma"...then turns Velma into her identity.
I'm guessing she identifies with Velma because she always thinks she is the smartest one in a group.
had to get rid of her whiteness, JUST HAD to.
@@blue893 while she obsessed over white people, constantly seeks their validation, and probably wishes she was white. She's self hating.
And proceeds to make Velma stupid, accusing people of murder over stereotypes or just "I don't like this guy therefore he's the murderer". Wow, almost like Mindy Kaling has no interest in detective stories at all!!
"i relate so much with velma.... after i turned her into me and projected my bullshit onto her"
Bluey is unironically more adult than Velma
Velma is adult and childish. Bluey is mature and for kids. Different things.
@LewaLew wait, really? Bluey is kids show?
/sarcasm
"My son watches Bluey"
"No, you watch Bluey and our son plays in the room." -My wife 😂
Exactly bluet is a masterpiece
@@sgtstr3am785 wholesome
My headcannon: Velma’s mom left her because she thinks her daughter is a disappointment
That is legit what happened - or is it? I dunno, I tuned out after episode 3
@@mannysmyname I tuned out after the first episode, so props to you for making it that far
Yeah
@@sombreroguy7688 I tuned out 5 minutes in the first episode.
Correction I would have just ran away and never come back if I had her for my daughter and I will have changed my name and start over again with a new family.
just so everybody knows, norville mentions he had a dog but he died of ringworm. Not only does this mean scooby might be dead, it also means hes a horrible pet owner because ringworm is very easily treatable
Would have made more sense if he said that the dog found his stash of edibles & ate them all
damn he rlly did scooby like dat
He just said ringwoom to cover up the edibles part
Scooby, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
@@mojododo6363 not really funny though idk
The greatest thing about scooby doo was that they went against their own stereotypes.
Daphne looked like she was gonna be a bimbo, she is smart, great at martial arts and kind.
Velma is a nerd but uses her skills to solve mysteries but isn't anti social and gets along with Daphne who is suppose to be the mean girl bimbo. She gets along with her opposites
Fred looks like the strong jock but is just a himbo who is a simp for traps but is a genius with traps too which does involve engineering and maths
Shaggy looks like a scrawny lazy dude but my god have you seen him run? No wonder dude loves his food. He is also insecure but is trying to combat that for his friends.
Scooby is a great dane which means he's suppose to be big and scary, but he's a cowardly dog who loves to eat as well.
Velma just gives them back their stereotypes and ups it by 200%
U know u got me off guard about simp to trap. i thought u mean femboy and i remember he literally obsessed with an actual trap😅😆
Btw sorry for the bad english
“Simp for traps”
Perfectly said!
Fred simps for traps relatable fr fr
i may have something in common with Fred.
My favorite part is how Mindy said she loved Velma yet decided to write her as the most insufferable, an unlikable character in history! She made velma cynical, mean, judgemental, and racist
Like how can you say you love a character for their personality then completely butcher them by making them the opposite of their original personality
I think she likes her design more than her character
@@SunsetEnvy As long as the design is changed to Indian like her.
She loves Velma, she wants to be her, smart, popular and all that, however here it is shown that she doesn't realize WHY Velma has all that what Mindy wants.
Mindy Kaling is a narcissist, every Indian woman character she plays is a bitter, cynical self-insert.
@@TrintellixLeGauloisso she's not really acting she's just being herself. Yikes.
Mindy Kaling went on record on the Conan show admitting to sexual harassment and then extorting her subordinates to keep it secret; "Tell anyone and you're fired."
And she wasn't even apologetic about it, either.
What's Worse Is The Audience Was 😃 About It.
@@collinkeyser6827 Show's like Conan literally have a "Laugh" light.
@@collinkeyser6827 That's so messed up. Like, really no one questioned anything she said?
That's blackmail and sexual harassment. She could be charged for that!
She should.
So basically she just admitted she committed a felony on live television yet people were okay with it?
I still can't believe they made Velma the opposite of what her actual personality used to be. She was characterized as being a bit shy and socially awkward, especially around people she admired or felt intimidated by. Here, she obnoxiously proclaims to each character that they are shallow and dumber than her right to their face. It's not charming or done in a clever way, it's annoying and ironically lacks self-awareness.
Turning admirable characters into insufferable, smug, hateful, self-absorbed and amoral bastardized versions of themselves, is a weird trend in modern storytelling... Hollywood specifically.
When did being an ugly person become encouraged? I suppose when "be yourself" turned into "have no inhibitions", and temper tantrum throwing toddlers weren't put in their place and allowed to grow into adults with horrible personality defects.
Yeah, he hit the nail on the head in saying she's a self insert or OC of Velma. Nothing like the actual character. More like someone annoying who relates to Velma but is nothing like her.
I did notice a trend of in newer series Velma becoming more cynical, I guess because "cynical= smart" and here they cranked it up to 11 to the point of overshadowing the rest of her personality.
@hope. Velma is a prime example of making a pizza?
@@Pheminon1 It's a bot.
Fred wasn't a himbo in most of the shows. He usually came up with the traps and helped Velma deduce the culprits. He was portrayed more as an intelligent art culture guy, if I remember right?
They did him so dirty by making him stupid. His original character subverted expectations by placing him in an ascot and making him brainy. The irony is that he brought Velma down to Earth a few times in the old show, where she would talk about something intellectual and he would just fire back with his own input, showing he could understand her, often with her complimenting him or being stunned by his knowledge.
Daphne and Shaggy were the comedic relief buffoons, but they would help solve the mysteries too due to their antics and different approaches. Daphne in particular was always a sweetheart, so making her a mean girl is ultra disrespectful to a good role model. Yeah she wasn't super smart, but she would resolve issues all the time with her good nature and social etiquette. She was the 'face of the party' quite often.
Yeah, I remember Fred being more of a co-operative and even smart guy, since he was constantly looking for traps
And worse, making Daphne the mean girl just destroys her character more because I feel like they took one look at Daphne's main character personalities and went, "Ha, she's just a mean girl" It's literally too easy, they picked the lowest hanging fruit. Because Daphne is a self made, "dumb ditzy" girl who likes fashion and is there for "eye candy" so of course she's a mean girl /j...I'm surprised they didn't make Fred and Daphne the annoying bully couple with Fred being more eye candy, being a jerk, and a dumb ass jock who makes it obvious that his girlfriend is running the show and he's just a lap dog...
@@bluewolf6323 it's all about projection from the creators own life and self-loathing
I loved that Daphne growing up. She wasn't mean to Velma in all the Scooby Doo series.
Can’t a himbo be an intelligent art culture guy who makes traps? Like come on! He can still be lovable and himbo dumb, but he can also be really smart and passionate about the things he loves! Mystery Inc. people! Mystery Inc!
Saber forcing himself to say “missed a rullet” instead of bullet when talking about scooby doo and laughing about it to himself- is actually by far funnier than this entire show.
@hope.957 what kind of spam is this? And no, I'm not going to look it...
HBO: “Right-wing trolls! All the criticism is from right-wing trolls!”
Liberals: “We hate it, too.”
Mindy Kaling: “Yeah…but you’re white, straight, *male* liberals.”
POC, Women, LGBT People: “Hate it.”
WB: “Uh-oh.”
The show honestly reads like an attempted right-wing parody of wokeism, which explains why it's so senseless and mean and relentlessly unfunny.
liberals of the right and left are downright embarrassing.
the West has really gone mad.
I can’t help but think this was a subtle parody of what some might consider “woke” shows. It’s often accused of putting white men in a bad light, but frankly, no man of any color is really portrayed all that positively in this series. Sometimes I feel like I’m only convincing myself it’s satire or parody because I didn’t think anyone could lack this much self awareness. Imagine fucking up so bad you united the entire political spectrum and fundamental ideological opponents on a common cause.
This basically was nail on the head. Take the “oppression ladder” - that thing that determines how oppressed you are - turn that upside down. That’s who the woke crowd try to benefit. Thus those are the ones to be swapped to just for a lazy cash grab. It’s not the blind deaf elder trans black lady man that’s the problem - even if kinda weird to me and many others, it’s the sick in the head politicians and Hollywood making our media swapping races and genders. It’s aggravating, but remember to direct it where it belongs - those using the different types of people as shields, advertising, and voting machines.
Haha, I’ll say the hate for this show is bringing us together and setting our differences aside. There’s something everybody can agree on
Mindy is the equivalent of that one dude who inserted himself into Powerpuff girls just to date blossom
What?
@@Darkdjinn79 the Powerpuff Girls reboot had a writter insert himself as a student Blossom was head over heels in love with for some odd reason. Very friggin weird
Tbf, he didn't insert himself, but the team made the character look like him as a joke. Nonetheless, the show was still inferior to the original.
That’s awful and creepy.
@@Rihcterwilker Plus, it's not uncommon for þe people behind þe scenes to insert þemselves into þe show, usually as background characters to fill up space when necessary (like, say, at a school during þe day).
The worst part about the Velma/Daphnie kiss was that it was used to stop a panic attack. That's a really bad thing to do.
Why is it bad, I have anxiety disorders and hugs from people who love me help a lot you know
@@eliezra83771 well she wasnt hugged, she was kissed, completely different.
also plenty of people with anxiety disorders (like myself) hate being touched when having an attack and would make things worse during the attack. It can be a claustrophobic feeling. It varies from person to person.
You (not /you/ you, but the general "you") also just shouldn't kiss people when it's not the time or place.
@@eliezra83771 i dont think hugs equal sexually charged kisses
@@eliezra83771do they hug you without warning
Wait, really? That’s messed up
That simple little "you dodged a RULLET!" joke is funnier than than any joke the show writers made.
Get woke, go broke
Gotta love how Mindy Kaling identified with Velma so much that she completely changed her character and personality
The thing that annoys me about Fred is, that he was the hardest character to mess up imo, his formula has been done before. Hell, a recent character from an adult show that they could've taken inspiration from is Brett from Inside Job. He's the perfect, loveable Himbo that still gets his moments and is a cool character.
It's not hard, those characters have been done before, HOW can you mess that up
Nope. Can't do that. Good adult animation doesn't activate the outrage cycle so we (Netflix) have to kill it.
Now prepare for That 90's Show...
@@eljoel89 Velma was made by HBO, though, so yeah... 🤔
Exactly. Also I love Brett. I'm going to miss him the most.
You mess it up by not doing that formula at all; He's more of a punching bag than a character it feels. This was so originally its own show before having Scooby-Doo plastered on it for recognizablity.
Fred in this "Velma" show ends up being sympathetic, even though they're trying to do the "toxic cis white male" cleche with him and his family.
Also the double standard annoys the hell out of me, like it's OK to body-shame a teenage boy, but it's thr biggest sin to body-shame a teenage girl. 😑😐
They did Fred so dirty, and it hurts my soul. Not because of toxic masculinity, but because he was one of the few characters who accurately represented jocks in media.
Jocks and gym bros are not _bad._ I was actually surprised when I first started working out at the amount of people willing to give me a hand, and who reassured me that I needn't be ashamed of not being able to lift a lot of weight. For whatever reason, however, Hollywood _hates_ them. Jocks always get portrayed as dumb or mean, when in reality most of them are the exact opposite. Fred was the exception to this rule, and he got absolutely butchered. The creators didn't do anything "subversive" by making him an idiot, because that's the standard in this industry.
I don’t think Hollywood necessarily hates jocks, I mean look at the type of men who are at the healm of beauty in media and Hollywood: muscular, masculine, stereotypically white. I mean look at Kumail Nanjiani. People became OBSESSED with his transformation, even people in the industry. Entertainment usually loves good looking and physically fit people.
I think the issue is lazy writing and using tropes and cliches to quickly get the story done for submission and broadcast. It’s easier to create simple characters and simple tropes for execs to understand in a pitch than to create something complex and try to pitch it because it’s gonna take time for that evolution to showcase… and even then, some writing teams just don’t develop their characters in fear of the audience and studio cancelling the project or being upset (I’m looking at you Shameless). But that’s just my opinion and experience being someone who has gone to school for acting: appearance and “type” is DEFINITELY something a part of casting, even in animated works.
Honestly, Fred was such a loveable character. I always loved him because of how much of a strong leader he was to the Mystery Inc. gang.
He was a handsome jock who happened to found passion in solving mysteries in this messy group of other meddling kids. He was sometimes cocky because of his looks but it never was malicious or insecure (like Velma is obsessed with portraying him as). They did nothing new with his character, they just gave us a used wet wipe of a character. The OG Fred always appeared as this guy who doesn't look over any of his group's skills but takes the leadership role because he is the most charismatic and decisive... So what they've done to him in this shit show is really disappointing. "Jocks" being portrayed as dense and 'useless' outside of working out is really boring now.
@@micahcook2408 like Marvel's iconic heroes like Captain America and Thor.
I think there are plenty of good tv/film jocks and in recent years the jock with a heart of gold has become more present. They are usually portrayed as stupid, which is worse as it cultivated the idea sports has to be your whole personality and you can’t love sports and, I don’t know, read. Like a TV/Film jock would never read a book…you are not allowed sports AND intelligence, you get one.
But in reality a high school jock clique environment is kinda different from adults at the gym. I have always been the worse at the gym, but I keep showing up and trying to improve and have never been shamed or laughed at either. But I think it’s fair to acknowledge a high school insulated peer group based on being on or associated with a school sports team is a bit different from casually going to a gym with other people at the gym outside of this insulated social system. There’s no status hooked to lifting the most weight in a random gym, there’s a lot of status linked to being the high school superstar who won the big game. And yes that could easily give a teenage boy a HUGE sense of feeling like the most important person in the universe and the universe is just his high school. The problem is Hollywood, at times, has been bad at finding the nuance and humanity within that guy who tends to sit in that prime spot. But I think it’s a lot to say Hollywood fully hates jocks when it is still seen as the desirable thing to be, we just get a lot of the ‘jock needs to learn a lesson’ stories. Like High School musical exist. Even the kinda cliquey sports guys in that film are mostly good guys, just too caught up in their identity as the group that likes Basketball and only likes Basketball. And I could think of more examples with time to think about it.
I loved my himbo fred but this...this isn't my himbo fred, this is just awful Fred.
Mindy grew up with rich parents, never worked a day job & was handed a Hollywood job through her parents contracts & influences. So when she wrote Fred as a spoiled rich kid with no soul. Yeah i can definitely see she's really writing herself. This is what we in the business call "The Projection" & a classic Freudian Slip.
The real self insert character. XD
The comment you copied and pasted is directly below this comment.
Her parents were doctors in Cambridge, Massachusetts. This is not completely accurate.
@@auro662 Mm i know, that's why i posted here purposely. Because it turns out, that person who you & other thinks is the original comment poster, Turns out he/she also Copied My Comments 2 Days Ago Before Posting Here 🤭😆🤣.
Professional victims at work
Fred's character design actually looks nice. So sad what they did to him. Turning him into a useless, man baby.
Exactly. Look how they massacred my boy.
They massacred ALL of the Mystery Inc.
@@graylykan2739 and also the Mystery Machine.
@@merafirewing6591 and scooby doo? Where are you?
If the characters were completely original and weren't associated with a pre-existing franchise, I don't think I would mind any of the character designs as much. They don't inherently look bad on their own. They're bad because of the fact they don't look or act like the characters they're supposed to be.
Gigi’s character design also looks very well done imo. Bonus points for being one of the very few characters who is a decent person.
Here's the thing, as a black man, I don't need people to make an existing white character black. If anything that makes me even more mad because it means they couldn't just make an original black character and have them stand on their own two feet.
Here's the thing. Corporations aren't interested in making an original black character and have them stand on their own two feet.
Here's the other thing, Velma isn't black.
@@mechanomics2649 wasn't talking about Velma. I know she's not black, still don't care for people getting race swapped for the sake of this inclusivity BS.
To be honest, the way that the show depicts itself, it seems like the only reason Shaggy or "Norville" is black is because Mindy didn't want to be nice to a white male character and since Shaggy is most beloved (due to memes & Iconic voice) they changed his race. This is my speculations because of how infantilised Fred is and how he is portrayed as this dramatic version of what most people on Social Media describe "white men" as being.
Yeah, that's part of making race swapping a huge problem. How hard is it to make an original poc character??
@@Theawesomeninja_XD A 'huge' problem? I think that's an overstatement. If race is 'no big deal' like people claim, someone being of a different race in an animated tv show shouldn't be a big deal.
The fact that Velma and Daphne kiss in the 3rd damn episode just shows the absolute lack of engagement even the creators have with this, like they themselves just want to have this done and over with.
I’m thinking of Jimmy Neutron and how they spent _multiple seasons_ building up Jimmy and Cindy getting over their petty rivalry and eventually entering a relationship and how much more satisfying it was as a kid to watch them finally get together. I miss that level of long term story telling.
Jimmy Neutron was a classic.
Oh yeah, I remember that. And I remember how them switching bodies helped start it too because when their friends were helping put them back in their original bodies, there was one trait that was convoluted and confusing where it was like "dislike of girls who dislike boys who dislike girls with (random trait) who dislikes boys with (random trait)." They got rid of that (it was obviously Jimmy's which made him keep up a barrier between him and Cindy) and after that Jimmy and Cindy actually started to slowly like each other in future episodes.
@@Envy_the_Darksider “Extreme dislike of girls who dislike boys who dislike girls who dislike show-offy boys who dislike-“
“TOO *_CONFUSING!!_* JUST THROW THAT ONE AWAY!”
I felt the exact same way about Danny Phantom! I loved watching their relationship grow, but even more so as they each developed as characters individually. Sam became much more than just basically a goth social justice warrior, she became a true ally for Danny and put her focus on the true greater good.
not to mention that kissing someone nonconsensually is a TERRIBLE way to deal with a panic attack1
Pretty funny how Bluey, a show for kids, has been gaining traction with adult audiences for how likable and relatable it's characters are, while this show is meant for adults, but it's characters are a bunch of unlikable douchebags. Heck, I think Bluey has more respect for it's audience's intelligence than Velma ever could.
EDIT: JINKIES! This dumb comment blew up, thread carefully!
@The Owl Nice try bot.
@@Alrightythen-es4gvthat’s because Velma is the prime example of A teen’s view on adulthood, that really feels insecure about being perceived as “mature” enough, so he tries so hard with his childish view on adulthood, and ends up looking even more childish in the end.
@@Alrightythen-es4gv mmmmmmmmmmmmmm…..I’m unsure how anyone can like this 😅
That's not a huge hurdle. I would say even Dora and Peppa Pig have more respect for their audience than Velma.
@Wolfenstrike Yeah, this isn't the first time the Scooby gang were unlikable douchebags see Scooby live action films.
Why did they make Velma so obnoxiously stupid and close-minded if Mindy said "she's the woman that solves all the mysteries and never gets credit for it" ??? Like?? She was 100% sure that Fred was the killer because he's a rich white guy. Wow, what a detective.
Not so fun fact: In one of Mindy Kaling's shows, she forced a dude to kiss her during acting rehearsals, (Without consent, might I add.) and ‘joked’ on live television that anyone who complained about it would be fired.
How the heck people like this get into the animation industry baffles me.
This makes that #MeToo joke even worse
For the same reason Jimmy Carrey got away after kissing a younger actress without consent..
Its a twisted industry
@@wrestlinganime4life288 Yeah, it's an unfortunate reality that many humans will use their power and status as a means to subject others to their personal whims, it's especially sad since many of them project themselves as good people in other areas of their lives, making it difficult to decide whether stories like this are true or just a coworker trying to grab attention at the cost of said person's career 😓
She's also a TERF and notoriously likes JKR's weird anti-trans obsessed tweets.
@@starkillersneed it’s all I could think about when she said that joke, along with the way she supported Aziz Anzeri with his SA case as well. She’s very against anyone speaking up against SA it seems
The Velma and Daphni kissing despite hating each other is a trope that if "women scream and hate each other they'll eventually make out because it's hot"
EXACTLY.
If they do get together, that would be one toxic relationship.
Not even a lesbian thing they did it in Bojack
I thought it was "I write my self-insert to be beloved by all other characters to fill this void in my heart."
They really couldn't restrain themselves until at least the season finale, so there's no way to go but down for that thread. The Harley Quinn show did it best, a Will They? Won't They? spread across a full season or two between her and Poison Ivy. Didn't feel forced, as you saw the characters' relationship slowly develop and gain those nuances that make their partnership feel truly earned, and not just another Ship come lately.
I love that the recurring feeling people get from Velma is "this sounds like what right wings think being woke is like". This is so in line with what Mindy Kaling says every time she is offered the opportunity to speak
It's uncanny how much she fits with the side-characters from reactionary right-wing fiction like the "Trigger Warning" book (and much less entertaining without the unintentionally badly written right-wing protagonist).
What surprises me the most is how many times I've seen both left and right-wing people be attacked and smeared as "racist" for having near-similar criticisms against this show. It's like even if you don't lean right, someone will somehow still perceive you as "right-wing" or "alt-right" for criticizing something like these shows, even if your criticisms don't make any mention of the race-swapping or anything.
This show brought together everyone across the political spectrum in a shared disdain for these dumbass shows.
@@andrewnigo61 reminds me of the 2020 Mulan movie.
Everyone EVERYONE HATED THAT MOVIE, from woke to antiwoke, China hated, western audiences hated.
@Andrew Nigo i find it funny when times like this shows its the main corpo that sucks the most lol.
as a right winger, this is exactly what it feels like
The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that turning the scooby franchise into a more adult show isn’t a bad idea and it’d be really easy to do. All that would need to be done is to have more mature themes like death, cursing and maybe more violence. Instead Velma choose to make their characters unbearable and overly sexual (even though they’re all still teenagers). If you want to watch a good adult scooby show just watch the supernatural and scooby crossover
I forgot that existed. I've never seen it, the only thing I've seen is a clip of Daphne terrified yelling 'AM I GOING TO HELL!?'
@@seasnaill2589 there was another scene where Fred got hurt and started bleeding causing him to freak out because he never saw blood before. Things like that show that scooby can have a more mature setting and raise the stakes without having to drastically change their personalities and go the cheap route with raunchy humor.
Be mature without being Woke.
I dare them to.
Or have the gang be older adults, they split but are getting together because they heard Scooby passed away and it's too big of a media story not to regroup. The funeral goes haywire, there's a Scooby ghost who is...evil!? And the gang gets back together, one last time, to solve who would dare besmirch their dog friend's name.
Could be a fun romp through old villains, some who have turned their lives around, others who haven't.
Honestly Scooby-Doo has a lot of potential for having an Adult show/reboot/reimagining.
How about a horror-focused one where the ghosts are real and the gang tries to solve mysteries about occults, curses and cults?
Or a more grounded, crime-investigation take where its still the premise of catching people masquerading as ghosts, except its the gang getting involved into the criminal mafia or underworld using ghosts as a front to hide their shady work and how the Gang will bring down the entire organization?
Or just something similar to Velma, but actually well done
Mindy Kalling: “i relate so much to Velma!”
Also Mindy Kalling: changes everything likeable, relatable and recognizable about the character.
What a surprise
If she just liked the aesthetic she should have just said that, lol.
Or maybe this is why she relates to her? Because this Velma is terrible
a friend probably showed her the "Velma's Sass" video from mystery inc and said that's all she needs to know about her. It's really the only explanation
"I relate to Velma" ❌
"I'mma fuck the living shit out of this character's personality traits and make her my self-insert because EVERYONE relates to a total asshole" ✔️
Mindy grew up with rich parents, never worked a day job, and was handed a Hollywood job through her parents contacts and influence. So when she wrote Fred as a spoiled rich kid with no soul, she’s really writing herself. This is what we in the business call “projection” and “classic Freudian slip”
Nice plagiarism idiot. If you're gonna shamelessly copy someone else 's statement and pretend it was your own words at least try and make it differ a little 💀
But it's different because she's not a "white girl with too much money"
I guess you could say its a Fredian slip...
Maybe hot take, Ryan and her? Worst part of the office
So I’m not starfire all over again
Dear Scrappy Doo, we apologize for all the horrible things we’ve said about you. You are no longer the worst thing to happen to the Scooby Doo franchise. This show is proof of that. Signed all of us.
Don't forget me! I love *Scrappy Doo* as much as *you* ! Get it, because they rhyme?
Well this became awkward real quick.
Hell, we need to give Be Cool Scooby Doo an apology too! I heard that despite the art style it's better than it looks.
What a terrible revelation you just dropped on us. Completely true and I hate it.
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling sons of bitches!
Yh tbh, the fortnite 9yr old is no longer the worst……. That’s not good……..
I forgot about the Johnny Bravo one also "You near sighted momma" absolutely killed me 😂😂😂
Velma is a perfect example of how NOT to make a show like it.
@Secret aight time to report you for self promotion
It's what happens when people who don't like Scooby Doo make a show set within that universe.
One of the reasons why Smiling Friends was successful was because despite the gory violence and dark jokes, it still kept the optimistic tone all throughout. It's something that shows like Velma need to learn.
Why'd they make Fred so stupid? He used to be the leader of the group.
@@michaelstrong5383
Also because it doesn't rely on gory, raunchy humor
It's still there, but it's not the entire show, and when they do it, it's handled perfectly
As a person of color myself, the reason I'm tired and done with race swapping is because, more often than not, whenever they switch a character's race, they project a bunch of characteristics in the character that are usually negative, giving a bad look to us poc who support one side or the other.
finally someone who understands 😭
I mean, as a European, why's it problematic for us to be offended when stereotypical and morbid jokes are made about us in media but not the other way around?
Fred is the only white guy left, and has every single stereotype applied to him and is now the butt of every joke. Oh, and of course, he's an antagonist.
Did I forget to mention he has a small penis and is murderous? Yeah that too.
It's getting ridiculous. It's backwards, what happened to not seeing color and treating everyone the same? It's like modern media wants an emphasis on it by swapping out character's races because we're not "Exotic" Enough to bring in cash or whatever.
I feel like the race swapping could have worked if they did a very specific angle.
Make it take place in the same universe as the Scooby Doo gang, but instead of it being the original gang it's like 5 Scooby Doo fans and their dog (each of them obviously an analogue of the original gang) banding together and trying to emulate the original gang and struggling due to a combination of inexperience, dysfunctionality, and desperately trying to copy their heroes instead of just playing to their own strengths.
A. You could make them travel all throughout Asia, granting both diversity of cast as well as setting and monsters (let's be real, Southeast Asian ghosts are awesome).
B.There is plenty of room for not only humor but character growth as they mature and learn to grow into their respective roles while still being unique.
C. It could serve as sort of a commentary in of itself on remakes. The gang fails when they try to badly and mindlessly copy the success of the originals, but succeed when they learn to play to their own strengths and correctly emulate the parts that made the originals GOOD.
D.Big finale where they finally meet their heroes and work together on a big case!
Seriously though imo the problem isn't race swapping so much as an utter lack of imagination. If they did the same thing without the race swaps it would still be just as terrible.
@@MrRawrCEO That would've worked so much better. Then they could've been much more creative with the character designs and writing too, had the writing been any good in the first place, I mean.
This is coming from a guy as white as tofu, but here's my two pence
Race swaping should only be used if it helps tell the story or to emphisise the point. Otherwise, it should just be for variety, like they did on She-Ra. The WORST you can do is race swap where it makes no sense. You can make Superman or Dorothy Gale black as they can fit in the stories they tell. But you wouldn't make Heracles Chinese as there'd be no way he would be.
Don't flay me if I said something wrong.
I think we all owe Scrappy-Doo and Flim Flam a major apology.
Yep...I genuinely thought the first Scooby-Doo live action movie was going to be the worst thing to happen to Scooby, but I guess I was too naive; and I'm sorry, Scrappy-Doo, Film Flam, sorry guys. I didn't think you were that bad, Scrappy(well, when compared to this pile of garbage, anyway), because it does a STRONG disservice to Velma Dinkley; and her character, and just makes her a hateful jerk. And also, just plain TAKING Scooby OUT of the SHOW?! Are you kidding me?!! Am I having a hallucination right now, where I imagined an awful Scooby-Doo show; which also, made fun of Fred's, uh, Oscar Meyer Wiener? And Shaggy looked like a random generic rapper guy with a bad haircut? I...I'm not hallucinating this, am I? It actually exists. Aw; man...I've been a huge fan of Scooby-Doo for years, watching it was early as the one where Shaggy had a red shirt, and all those random 70's crossovers(even though I was too young to get who they were), and the one with the best theme song(What's New Scooby-Doo?) And even saw the Harvey Birdman episode where Fred gets Harvey Birdman to defend Shaggy in court, it was hilarious. Only 15 minutes, but it was one of the best episodes of one of the best shows ever. I sure hope we'll see the Scooby-Doo franchise try harder(or actually try, next time), when making something relating to Scooby-Doo, just saying...
no
@@Bennahr_Fett Yes. I find Scrappy more tolerable.
#BringBackScoobyAndScrappyDoo
@@donutbevil9669 Mail me some of them donuts then. Shit I'm hngri as a muthufuqa.
Velma: *commits a huge cardinal sin*
Everyone from all corners of life: "So you just signed your death warrant."
Another thing I wanna add is all the original characters despite them all having their own unique personalities, designs and choices of style felt like they wanted to be in a mystery group together because they generally wanted to be friends with each other. Despite the differences and stereotypes of “nerds”, “jocks” or “Pretty girls” not being allowed to be in the same friend group. This shows version however feels forced, like Velma, Fred and Daphne are only hanging around each other because they have to.
Honestly, the original characters not only wanted to be friends but they also never fit into their stereotypes either. Appearance wise they did have their stereotypical looks and personalities but not to the point where they were actually walking stereotypsed.
Fred for example, despite being a Jock he wasn't just dumb and "useless outside of sports". He was a charismatic leader who in the way was the heart of the group, kind of like a safe space because he was emotionally there for everyone. Daphne was a pretty rich girl but she was also a strong character herself and in some adaptation she's seen fighting with martial arts.
Velma was the closest to her stereotype I think but even then... She wasn't portrayed like a complete socially awkward moron, rejected by everyone. She was confident and liked doing her job, Fred did all the speaking since he was best at it.
Shaggy was the comedic relief but he also was a great character used to bring the group closer together, him and Scooby where the heart of the group in the sense they represented their differences not being an issue but a strength.
These new versions don't work together because they're just plastered muck on an animation tablet framed as "original interpretations" for the series The characters are incompatible because they're all insufferable and make zero sense. You can only go so far with infantilising a character before the jokes run stale (they already are) so for one of the MAIN characters to be portrayed like that? Horrific move.
Aside from the character assassination of the entire Mystery gang, Mindy's garbage, stereotypical, one note characters are so poisonous it's hard to even entertain the idea that ANY of them get along.
@@apll9146 YES! Exactly, took the words right out of my mouth. That is why I also used quotes when saying “Nerd” or “Jock” because their not full on stereotypes, they have some characteristics of those stereotypes but personally and character wise their not.
@@aurorakitty9415 it made the og characters that big more special and relatable. It's a representation of how to take a stereotype and better it.
This show is just... Painful. I have nothing against cynical characters (you can get good commentary out of them) but Velma is just unlikeablely ignorant and self centred with very little justification
@@apll9146 Another big reason as to why they don't fit into the stereotypes is because...they actually have a personality other than the stereotype. While Fred was meant to be the leader-esque and straightman of the original show, there was still that hint of him learning about traps as a hobby, and later on the next shows used this as part of his personality - They eventually made him to be irrationally and childishly excited when it came to things he genuinely likes.
Daphne also didn't have much of a personality at first other than to be the support of the group, but later adaptations also managed to use this and incorporated her as the 'mother' or even the straightman sometimes (only because of Fred's childishness lol). She's still clumsy and curious at times, but that just makes her humane - Even mothers may have goofy moments at times (yes, even for a martial artist, especially one who hasn't been in training for a while. Also because martial artists don't just magically know how to use their skills in any time that requires action).
Velma did have a personality - And actually, in the first ever show, she _was_ a bit socially awkward - but not to the extent that it makes you cringe or uncomfortable. She was just shy at times (such as the Johnny crossover episode) that it really made it more endearing rather than annoying. I admit, I actually like the 'intelligent girl has soft moments' a lot more than the sarcastic and snarky Velma in Mystery Inc. (Well, I have a lot of things I dislike in Mystery Inc., mainly being how they made Velma and Shaggy a relationship. It was implied before, but previous shows never actually took it seriously, so I was disappointed that they took it seriously).
Shaggy and Scoob had a lot in common even during the first show, which is the whole point to them being best friends. However Scoob was actually the more sarcastic and snarky one while Shaggy was more air-headed that it makes his occasional clever comments really funny. It's also pretty funny that he's a chic magnet when all he wants is the food (also this being another reason why I dislike the Mystery Inc. adaptation of Shaggy and Velma. How was it even possible for Shaggy to accept Velma's confession without actually being serious? He could straight up dematerialize if he's not interested in you - Honestly he makes it apparent. Plus he _has_ shown to be serious with previous relationships [such as when he met Crystal from that alien movie] - He _knows_ when to be serious when he has to be. Sorry, some rants about this show).
Honestly, it feels like Mindy self-inserted herself into the show.
She did
It is her self insert jagdadgjjgrs I feel really bad to all the people that want Velma to go through an actual character Arc, because knowing Mindy and how disgusting of a person she is, that's not happening.
What if the show was supposed to be a cartoon about Mindy but Warner wanted the Scooby do licensed the be used?
Because it feels like that honestly
she did.
This proves that the only Mindy who should be in associated with Velma is Mindy Kohn.
2 theories.
1: Mindy was going to make an original show with the main character just being a self-insert of her and it would have sucked pretty bad, but executives made her slap Scooby Doo characters onto it.
2: Mindy doesn’t know shit about Scooby Doo but knows it’s popular so she made a really crappy show about it.
It's probably 1, executives tend to be like that for marketing
Both is good. It seriously reeks of the creators having no love whatsoever for the original Scooby-Doo franchise
1 was confirmed on twitter.
Both
It's got to be 1. Capitalism ruins adult animation once again.
The ability of the people behind Velma to ignore the massive criticism is one of the biggest mysteries
The thing I hate mostly is them thinking that adults want to only watch extremely cynical stories with disgusting jokes and unnecessary nudity or violence, like holy shit, are we really such monsters??? I still enjoy some simple lighthearted stories that make me feel good (and I like horrors too).
Also, school setting in a story for adults? LAZY.
A shoe I can think of that was somewhat adult that seemed to do pretty well with a high school setting was Clone High. Sadly, it only got one season, but I think of it were to come back it would get a huge following if the reboot stayed true to the original
Centaur World is a good mix of simple and lighthearted while also being hilariously *weird*, it's great
They're treating adults like nacissists for some reason.
For this case, the show's humor feels closer to a 2000s middle schooler.
I'm only a teen now and people also think teens only want that stuff as well. We would gladly settle for good classics
I think the most unforgivable sin of this show is that they're four episodes in and haven't solved a single mystery. In many ways, I think that Brennan from Bones was the Velma show that we all desired.
@yes hey no one clicks on unsolicited links.
I completely agree. Brennan was a smart and strong lead who solved mysteries but struggles to interact with people at times. Here, Velma is a total jerk who hates everyone and is honestly kinda of dumb.
Honestly taking several episodes to solve a mystery isn't a bad thing. Infact i would argue its alot more compelling if pulled off right. I just think the problem is the writing is bad and the jokes are terrible
"I identify so much with her character" says the person that completely changed almost every aspect of Velma's character.
Sounds more like she projected onto Velma rather than related to Velma
My oc is just like me!
Explain, in detail, what she "changed"?? Is Velma a nerd? Yes. Is Velma into solving mysteries? Yep.
Velma is an archetype, losers. The original show set the pace. Her character has never been deep. None of them have been.
If you've watched or read a newer version of these characters and they vibes with you, great. Every version will not.
@@playfulpanthress Let me guess. You moan before speaking.
@@donutbevil9669 Did you have stroke?
Girl literally just made her fictionkin headcanons about Velma into a show 💀
I seen better headcanons than this!
@@Whocares158 same 😭😭
What does fictionkin have to do with this? Is Mindy even a part of the community?
Oh, no one deserved what they did to Fred. Poor Fred. So kind and gentle. You didn't deserve this dude. I mean... So... words cannot do you justice. They did you wrong. You'll be remembered. And this show will be remembered. For two very different reasons.
They butchered the Mystery gang. 😢
My sweet trap-loving himbo didn’t deserve this 😭
Nothing happened to him. What are you talking about ?
Everyone go support Harley Quinn instead so they don’t cancel it 😂 because we know these studios love cancelling a potentially mid-to-long running series. Plus that show imo takes the “alternative” switch of these well known characters and uses it to tell a great story while also being kind of relatable to reality.
@micahcook2408 yeah it's pretty much everything Velma is trying to be with much more likable characters. I love King Shark so much in that series.
You know, an adult version of Scooby Doo absolutely could work. You could have them expand their idea from paranormal mysteries to full-blown CSI/ cold case mysteries. They can get down to the origins of century old legends, help uncover criminals from unsolved crimes, have them go from bright-eyed naive teenagers to more jaded adults when they have to deal with the real fucked up shit people have done in the cases they take on. Everyone except Velma.
Velma could be the person so enraptured by mysteries and the macabre, that she could be the gang's light in the darkness, reminds them to take breaks, takes on a good portion of the work and is always there for her friends. She could be into figuring out all the mysteries they take on because her mother went missing and it's entirely unknown of how she went missing. It could lead to a weird cult, or even that her mother just left her to start over.
That could work!!
And instead we got Velma, a show that a 12 year old would write thinking it would make a good adult show.
Have the gang be 😊♥️ kind-hearted too!
you are absolutely right. a more adult spin on scooby-doo would work exceptionally well if it was just the tonal difference and darker mysteries, not "haha small peepee" jokes and forced wokeness. them upgrading from men in masks to real monsters and the paranormal or serial killers (taking on a more mystery horror/thriller genre than comedic mystery) and through the trauma losing their spark would be an interesting plot point to pursue, and would give the characters actual reasons to argue and be jerks to each other. you could probably get a good two or three episode arc centered around the gang splitting up and going their separate ways because they're all done with seeing real people getting hurt. all except Velma, who is the only one who stays passionate. she begs everyone to stay, to help her finish at least this one last mystery, they're so, so close...but one by one they grab their bags and leave with a mumble apology, an "I just can't do it anymore". Then Velma, determined to solve the mystery despite being alone, finds herself way in over her head and potentially captured by the killer they've been hunting. Perhaps Scooby is the only one that stayed with her and he escapes and gets Shaggy, who calls Daphne and Fred, and the gang storms the castle to save Velma and get the killer behind bars. imagine the fight scenes!! ahhhh we were robbed
Why did you so blatantly offend 12 year olds?
Someone write a fanfic!!!
they could've just ripped off xfiles and slapped scooby and the gang on it, would've worked
"It's like a self insert of her OC"....That's because it is. Every series she's written for, she self inserted and acted for.
My biggest problem with this show is that they made Velma extremely dislikable for seemingly no reason
Mindy Kaling made that decision, she wanted to make Velma just like her. Her other characters like Disgust and Taffyta are both kinda mean like that too, correct me if I’m wrong but I think she likes to play the role of mean characters.
I like what Charlie/Moist Critical proposed. Whenever shows like these come out, the internet should nominate one person to watch them. Content like Velma isn't worth our collective capacity. There is a wealth of content with good storytelling out there that deserves our attention.
Yup. People are always like “why are bad shows always getting renewed!!???” Because you’re watching them. Hate watching still gives these sorts of shows views and revenue, and therefore they get promoted to more people and therefore are given the green light to make even more seasons. When you give a show attention, even negative attention, it does nothing but benefit the people funding it. You don’t want anymore Velma seasons? Don’t see it. You don’t want anymore Transformer films? Don’t watch them. Don’t give the shit that you don’t like views, don’t give them money, don’t give them engagement. That’s the only way these shitty shows stop existing.
@@gothicMCRgirl Exactly. Leave it to the relatively few review outlets (yeah there's thousands of reviewers, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the 320 _million_ potential viewers in the USA alone) to watch and dunk on it. Watch _their videos_ trashing it, don't watch the show itself.
Or if you must, pirate it.
@@gothicMCRgirl wdym no more transformer movies some are good but it's just the new ones are mid now sadly.
The nominee would be the Jesus Christ of the internet 😂
Pinocchio A True Story is better to watch than this garbage.
“Adults don’t want to watch a talking dog cartoon”
Meanwhile adults are watching Bluey 😂
That was the response Mindy gave I'm willing to bet the reality was someone at the top had a feeling this was gonna be a shit show and didn't want them to compromise Scooby as a character so told them they can make a "adult Scooby Doo show" but you can't use Scooby.
Tuca and berdie destroyed her argument right there.
Meanwhile adults watching Mystery Inc
Family Guy has a talking dog
Hello? Brian Griffin from Family Guy!
Reminder for everyone: Do not hate watch this show! Just completely ignore it. If we want to tell HBO max that we do not want this show, we don't watch it.
YESSS. there's tons of UA-camrs who have reacted. Been hate watching through them
Hate watching doesn’t do much, they already had second season planned. Plus shows mostly make money from merchandise.
Just pirate it if you're going to hate watch it. Still wouldn't recommend it. It absolutely sucks.
@@GassyGoat who would buy merch of this??
I’m never going to watch it. I’m sticking with the original.
Whenever I think about good meta humor, I think of Ace Attorney as a golden standard. It's really funny as it pokes fun at the absurd tropes happening, ones which often can be found in both Japanese and western media. Additionally, it earns the right to make those meta jokes by having genuinely well-written characters and stories instead of just covering for bad writing, including one of the most well-written and emotional character arcs I've ever seen(Rayfa in SoJ). They use those absurd tropes to add to the actual story. Even Godot, who on the surface is mostly just a one-note coffee addict joke, is written in a way that keeps that joke consistently funny and foreshadows his eventual character arc where he's revealed to be so much more.
Truly wholesome when the internet unanimously bands together to hate on one bad show
Its like the avengers.
it'll always be the best kinda crossover, i swear man
It’s beautiful
I mean, it's angered pretty much EVERYBODY on the internet and has a FAR lower audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes than critic rating (normally shows and movies have a higher audience rating than critical rating and if they don't, it's usually not by THIS MUCH). I swear, if somebody at WB or CN swindles the creative rights of Ed, Edd, & Eddy and tries to reboot it, we riot.
At this point, Norville is his own new character, but the dude needs new friends. Like honestly, he needs completely new friends.
Like maybe a dog or something. Perhaps a great dane that for some reason has human intelligence, loves snacking, and has a heart of gold, though admittedly is a little cowardly.
Eh, probably a bad idea.
@@sharkodile22 They said the new show doesn't have the rights to Scooby so probably not.
I don’t know much about Norville because I haven’t seen the show, but from what I know it looks like they managed to make Shaggy boring
You can pretty much say that with all the characters in this show, remove the names and designs of the main characters and most people would never know this has anything related to Scooby Doo in it.
@@funnyvideoguy3216 Norville is Shaggy sadly. :(
Velma is absolutely Mindy's OC. She probably felt ostracized and rejected in highschool because she saw herself as a nerd, and seeing the nerdy icon Velma literally become a sex icon with the rise of the internet, she had a few extra bucks to throw at living her dream of being the same shitty person but loved regardless for all her very obvious faults. Too bad she had to drag everyone along with her.
Also, why are so many adult shows created with high schoolers in mind? Like I get that highschool is the preset for everything because it's so relatable, just about about everyone will experience highschool, but why does this show have to be set in school? There's no real mysteries, and the show tries so hard to be relatable, but it's very clearly an afterthought, the show is about Mindy and nothing else.
Everything in the show struggles to be even decent, the animation is basic at best, the pacing is a slog with every joke needing those seconds to land, and just constant talking down to their own audience. I don't really get the reason why this show exists other than the show runner has a chip on their shoulder and wanted to relive highschool in the way she wishes it went.
Reminder that Charlie is the one that made the show. The end product is his fault as much just as much
In my opinion, so many shows are set in high school because its easy set up, characters are interacting with each other because they go to the same places and are affected by the same powers. Makes it easier to pull everything togheter
@@ember9361 true, I wish his face was at the forefront just as much as hers.
i think its not a good idea to put in an oc that is 100% supposed to be you. its fine to let them have relatable issues that you as a writter can identify with but to have them be a 1:1 fictional you never works out well
But yeah, I agree… I wish there was more young adult centered content. I think Atlanta did it best with showcasing mid-to-late 20s - early 30s adult slice of life (surrealist) situations without forcing it to be set in one place like work or college. But it seems most of these writers just forget what it was like to be 20-30 out of college (or for some never in college) working part-time, living with parents or in their own apartment, etc. or feel as if a show about that is boring lol
When you talked about that “kiss” I thought about the Lumity kiss and how much more satisfying it was. Because Dana Terrance and her team did something you mentioned; PACING. They actually showed them as enemies to friends to lovers and it worked.
They're smarts
I was thinking the same exact thing. The Owl House handled it so much better. It handled mature themes better in general.
@@blueflare3848 Yeah
@@blueflare3848 not to mention that Velma is basically what Luz could have become (AKA Belos) if she kept trying to do things on her own WITHOUT admitting that she is wrong. Seriously! This Velma seems to try to solve the mystery by only basing herself on pop culture that she saw WITHOUT bringing something new to her. You understand what i mean?
Love saber's visceral rage videos
Nice video
Nice
👍
Hfg
Nice
The problem is that the character of Velma Dinkley was changed not update to a modern era but to become Mindy Kaling's self insert. At least in "I am not Starfire" comic the author Mariko Tamaki's self insert Mandy (daughter of Starfire) was an original character; a terrible self-insert original character but still original. Mindy Kaling has appropriated the character Velma Dinkley to be her self-insert mouth piece, and that my opinion is worse.
And somehow it feels like she appropriated Daria too.
When you said "set the table" at the Daphne/Velma kiss part, I said to myself "they cooked dinner and then just put it on the table without setting it" and got a mental image of spaghetti just loose on a counter top.
That's it.
You just described the show.
@@LathropLdST *applause*
It funny how when Velma hates someone, its fine. But when we hate Velma, Mindy Kailing goes batshit crazy.
The hate this show is getting is so satisfying
I hate the show too
It will bring humanity together ❤️
That’s literally what I said. You flat out stole my comment
I hate the show more than I hate hatred
It’s so bad it made me appreciate Shaggy and Scooby doo get a clue.
They could have made a show about Velma, now an adult, as a homicide detective. That's an interesting premise for a show aimed at the now-adults who grew up with Scooby-Doo. It's also something that couldn't be done without the adult rating, and because it's a cartoon the absolutely not how it works in real life tropes (like getting DNA results back in mere hours) would be excusable.
Jinkies
god i would watch the HELL out of that, why couldn't we have that instead???
Scooby doo is like the wtc, its collapsing because of this monster highjacking the franchise
And the joke could be about how the guys in the lame rubber costumes were way more creative than any of the actual murderers she has to handle.
Yes!! Especially since the true crime and murder mystery genres have a huge audience! Some cheeky sarcastic dialogue and dry humor from Velma would have worked so well but i think they tried too hard in this series
Honestly, if this is the Velma that Mindy Kaling "identifies" as, then it's clear that she never truly identified as Velma to begin with.
average fictionkin tbh
@@Alrightythen-es4gv It's Mindy's wording I used, not mine - "...and I identify so much as her character".
I think it means one more thing: That miss Mindy is insufferable person that never got in touch with real life and lives in bubble created for sake of own insecurity and power fantasies.
"OMG she's literally me"
@@Alrightythen-es4gv could be cause the real Velma the person aren't supposed to be like that (personally and racially)
At least Scooby didn't have to suffer in this series.
Agreed.
The old Mystery gang: **get along with each other**
The people created Velma (2023): “HOW ABOUT WE RUIN IT WITH STEREOTYPES”
Frankly, I kind of like the idea of a Scooby gang that’s just starting out, so the kids are antagonistic toward each other. Kind of an enemies to friends thing. I mean, it worked for The Breakfast Club.
But this, this is not The Breakfast Club.
@@GrndAdmiralThrawn it’s okay to start out fresh like that, but this show did it just to insert stereotypes and thought it’s smart to make commentary on several stereotypes ended up being stereotypical
@GrndAdmiralThrawn Didn't they do that in one of the live-action movies?
The writing is like a terrible attempt at making "woke" characters by someone that only knows right wing stereotypes and dogma and tropes.
It's just such a massive middle finger to the original series and it's concepts
@@GrndAdmiralThrawn wasn't there a Movie where the gang meet each other for the first time ?
“But you got a job as a teacher. Why do you need more money?”
“😞”
Oh my god. That’s absolutely brilliant.
An actually good joke!
$25 an hour is barely enough in certain areas. Though some teachers make less.
@@ArbiterofTruth 25 an hour? Holy shit what teachers do you know? Every teacher I know would love to make 16, much less 25
@@TheGateShallStand that's sad as shit
@@paperremix in some schools my teahcers get 13 dollars an hour (their job last for 3 hours)
There's 1 true positive to this whole show. They finally made something that everyone agrees in. No matter the beliefs, race, religion, nor the ideologies, everyone hates it. To me, it's always spectacular to create something that unifies people.
Yeah, i still can't believe that this show is so bad, that everyone can just agree "the show is an absolute trash"
Ikr makes me feel genuine hope that the right and left of the political spectrum, can find some kind of co existence In the future.
Upon seeing the show, rumor is Putin and Zelenskyy immediately started negotiating an armistice so that the world could unite in a campaign against Mindy Kaling.
Everyone can agree it's bad and I think it's awesome everyone hates it
the funniest shit is people trying to say "wow if you hate Velma you hate black people"
she's indian lmao
how does Velma manage to be the most insufferable character but still have the entire main cast of characters fall in love with her 😨😨
It’s like they wanted to make Velma Daria but they forgot that Daria was actually likable
Scooby didn’t just dodge a bullet, he dodged an entire nuclear bomb
Please don't jinx it
@@KalEl7802 too late, the show's got a "Scoobi" now
Dodged an entire stage 5 earthquake
@mekhie.r.duncan3825 it's a hoax, the black girl who is named "scoobi" isn't her name, it's Gigi. Someone just took a screen shot of the 3rd episode and thought hey, why not make an assumption that this black female with Norville is Scooby-Doo. I just wanted to clarify. Nonetheless I hate this show with a passion.
And it looks like Shaggy swapped with his stunt double.
The blatant self insert of Mindy in the Velma reboot is giving me major “I Am Not Starfire” flashbacks 💀💀
no literally though, i dont know why i havn't seen anyone else say this!!!!
ENDYMIONtv talked about that, he had a very interesting take on Velma
I was thinking this too
Omg i forgot about that
It made I Am Not Starfire tolerable. And that’s a miracle in and of itself.
Between you and me, HBO’s Velma feels more like the Allen Gregory of Warner Bros. Animation rather than a Scooby Doo spinoff.
Velma has a 1.6/10 on IMDB and a 7% audience score on Rotten Tomato.
Daphne: "Fred, aren't you going to say it?"
Fred: "What? There's no mystery to solve here...."
6% on rotten tomato’s now… 2 hours later
And yet the critics score is 48%, which is not great, but why the *hell* is it so high!? Like, you're telling me THAT MANY CRITICS LIKED IT!? WTF!?
@@cameronbosch1213 bots, or atleast god i hope so
I love democracy
@@cameronbosch1213 no critic would dare say dislike a show with a black lead, that would mean instant termination and cancellation. Most they can do is give it a less than stellar score. Audiences however can dislike something as much as they want
it's not because of the fact that some characters are asian/black when they weren't before, but the fact that they were specifically chosen as what they were is what the issue is for me. the fact that prettygirl daphne is an east asian person, dubiously-on-drugs shaggy is black, and brainy velma is south asian all feel really racially charged towards stereotypes. i know velma's race is because of her voice actress, but with all the other stuff on top of it, it starts to look more suspicious than coincidental
YEAH.
EXACTLY! it’s all so stereotyped. this show wants to go against stereotypes sooo bad but then uses those stereotypes frequently. it agitated me as an asian american who is also queer, like some of the characters in the show
they dont even do anything with these race swaps
Daphne looks so weird in this show
I can't even recognize shaggy 💀
I love how Mystery Incorporated actually does clever adult humor way better than Velma ever could. If small D insults, idea juice and humping roaches is what passes for adult humor these days, then we're in trouble.
Hell Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island movie is more mature than this show and it has actual death that the characters were trying to solve.
Dude, Mystery Incorporated had such good writing
Not really, we have The Simpsons and they are not this stupid. That show can be stupid sometimes, but not brain dead like this. This is the equivalent of saying animation is for kids. Uhh..family guy?
@@thesupervideogamenerdmore3171 they weren't saying every adult show sucks though? What are you talking about
Nah it's just whoever is in charge at HBOMAX wants to cancel good adult comedies while green lighting garbage like this. I seriously can't believe they deleted Close Enough & kept this trash fire.
Velma in Mystery Incorporated had more sass compared to prior iterations, but she wasn’t insufferable like this version.
That's because Mystery Incorporated treated Velma's flaws like flaws. When she was wrong, she was treated as being wrong. Whether it was being high and mighty or the way she treated Shaggy when they were together, if she was doing something that was disliked by others, the show was aware of it and didn't try to pretend she was in the right.
Whereas this Velma said straight up "I'm always right about everything," and it wasn't treated as a joke, or something to proven wrong, they just let that be. Her character isn't allowed to be wrong, so being arrogant like that is encouraged rather than being treated as something that makes her look like a jerk.
I’m gonna assume that the way Johnny Bravo said “jenkies” was funnier than any joke in this show.
You’d be right.
10000%
You have no idea
😂😂😂😂
I fucking love that episode, man.
I'm at least glad the Velma show exists. Because of its existence, a bunch of people said to watch Mystery Incorporated (2010) instead, so I did. Holy crap, it was amazing.
Mystery Incorporated was a great show. I used to watch it as a kid
I had some gripes with MI, but it is miles and leagues ahead of Velma, no question about that.
u had me in the first half ngl
I was turned off by be cool scooby doo because its look and the ads. Be cool actually got a legit laugh out of me while velma is not funny at all. I think I judge Be cool to harshly.
I feel like that's why velma was made. it's not made to be a show, but rather its existence for being widely noticed for being beyond awful is a psychological marketing scheme to make you feel like watching the far better scooby doo shows which most of them are most likely found on HBOmax.
It’s fascinating to see an adult animated entry that has so much distain for adult animation, it’s fans, and the Scooby doo franchise. It feels like Mindy connected to Velma being nerdy, but projected a superiority complex onto the character .
Something tells me they're actively trying to weaponize and profit off of hatewatching.
And I don't like the way they portrayed panic attack. Compared to that Puss in Boots' new movie scene, it looks bad.
Ok time to do the writers job for them, here's roughly how I would do in one season with quick summaries:
Episodes 1&2 Introduce the characters (the personalities can stay the same as a starting point) as Velma solves some mysteries around the school
Episodes 3-5 - Velma starts struggling to solve mysteries dues to her lack of social skills and filter Daphne helps out getting the information Velma needs having noticed the events of episodes 1&2 and develops an interest in mysteries herself. Shaggy is asked by the school to help Fred control his temper but currently failing.
Episodes 6-9 - Velma and Daphne continue mystery solving with Velma becoming less hostile to people and Daphne getting smarter. Fred starts being able to control himself with help from Shaggy but also gets Shaggy to be more impulsive and speak his mind faster leading to Shaggy saying "like" a lot, Fred and Shaggy start getting recruited as extra hands for Daphne & Velma a few times.
Episodes 10-11 - Big mystery hits the school requiring all 4 characters to work together (I would make this the first actually paranormal mystery).
Episode 12 - Graduation with the main cast deciding to be become a team of investigators and a final scene of them meeting Scooby.
Now, y'see, there's some good writing.
@@Absolei Better than the dumpster-fire of a Scooby Doo show we have.
It’s irritating how they only made Fred this way so they can have a ‘let’s rip on white guys’ button anytime they want, and they abuse the living hell outta that button yet mindy and her character are oblivious to how irritating she is and how woke she tries to come off when she’s arguably the most insufferable person on the show… also random note but why does her mom not age a single day? Just to patronize? Who knows it’s literally inclined
And they keep metion his dong and comes off Werid when characters bring it up like when Velma mom said you didn’t me tell Fred a small dong it’s why would he say that or why would he know
@@Steven9567 yeah they just wanna low key bash ant straight white guy especially rich ones saying they all have small members and it’s so forced it’s like Velma’s voice actor has a bone to pick with someone so she went and made a show just to talk her shit it’s really sad she comes off like that one UA-camr who made it ‘big’ and got their own late night show who just can’t shut up about other races and men whilst sucking her self off
Ahh yess. You can raise up the voices of minorities without putting white people down. They gave us a diverse cast only to make a bunch of anti white guy jokes. Why not just have a white character along with the diverse cast. It hurts my brain
Super "woke" people like that are actually more exclusionary and prejudice
@@BadGoyz4Life definitely. It sucks because they raise people up by putting others down.
My issue with the race swapping isnt that they were race swapped- its that it feels like they only did that to use Velma’s new position as a POC as a gag or an in to make these horrifically unfunny “im cool and woke” jokes
That and the fact that they raceswapped literally every member of the gang EXCEPT the one they portray as a racist rich white dude with smol peepee. Like you honestly can't get more blatantly hateful than that, and Saber out here calling people stupid for having it bother them. Honestly my biggest critique of this review.
I personally like the designs, but they still fell back on tons of stereotypes for them. Plus, it's a good way for the makers to dodge criticism.
@@QuincyQuinn95 Saber have that mentality of most creator have that if you don't like this character of color or LGBT or race swapping then you are automatedly a racist & bigot homophobe without hearing out the people why people criticism the character.
yes this is why i don't like race swapping that much because most modern media portray race swapping as like you said "cool & woke" but in reality they just making a fucking racist insult especially to white people and when people call them out, they use the race card to avoid criticism. Look i don't mind character race swap as long as the character was well written and the story is interesting.
And Mindy Kaling self inserted herself into it
You know the race swapping thing wouldn’t be such a problem but despite mindy’s comment about race not being integral to these characters they sure do bring up how white Fred is all the time…almost like a weird fixation with boiling down characters to base characteristic and degrading them for it…
I dont agree swapping just stay true to the original and my problem is that most of the time its done for some agenda purpose like getting rid of white people
Agreed. Not a big fan of Saber's take on this. I agree with him, but for different reasons. Race swapping is a problem for writing because it adds a false perception of depth on behalf of the writers. It's completely unnecessary and adds nothing to the plot and has become a crutch for writers who have trouble actually writing OC. If whiteness was such a problem in the original, write some great OCs of color. If it really didn't matter, you'd just leave them the original race they were and focus on the STORY...which is what people want.
I think race or gender swapping as a rule just shouldn’t be done. Though it’s not really a hill I’m going to die on. And it’s been done decently before (Starbuck from BSG)…though the fact is that usually if the character is race/gender swapped it’s usually to get rid of white people/men and not necessarily for artistic purposes.
Here though…god. It was so vitriolic and hostile.
@@buffaloalice8413 It is also used by authors as a shield against any criticism. You don't like my show? That's because you are racist!
@@buffaloalice8413 and no political agenda, or adds it in a more subtle way
“I love Velma, it’s the best show ever!”
-Nobody, ever.
Yep
Real
@@glimmerstantroop46321 100% free no virus
The fact that they just called black Shaggy by his legal name instead of giving him dreadlocks speaks volumes about how much the creators actually care about the franchise.
LITERALLY where are his dreads. long afro. give him a black hair style that reflects shaggy's name sake in the first place!! like saber I really liked all of the character designs but the lack of long hair on shaggy really bothered me. it feels like a very Interesting choice to race swap a white guy into a black dude named SHAGGY but then give him an undercut with very little length at all. screams diversity brownie points while reinforcing the stigma surrounding black guys having long dreads 💀
This is my problem with Shaggy in this show! He needs SHAGGY HAIR they gave him clean short, maintained dreads when he should have long dreads coverage his face or an afro
Norvile’s hair looks like burnt friend fries bruh
@@inkdrip a Shaggy with longer dreads a la Virgil from Static Shock would've looked so good.
@@cruztastrophe I was thinking the exact same thing
I think what a lot of these "adult" versions of shows feel way more immature than the other versions. Like, look at mystery incorporated. It was able to take the Scooby formula and make it more mature, while this feels just like the thing that every edgy teenager would make.
It's especially sad because I actually believe, that a Scooby show specifically for older people had some potential for leaning more into the horror and complexity of the stories.
Yep, Mystery Inc had more nuance and style than this abomination
I like Mystery Incorporated as a child, back when Boomerang was still available on my old cable tv
Edit: it also has Scooby Doo, Where Are You?
I might go rewatch Mystery Inc. I remember liking when it aired
@@meyeneetuks4680 I recently rewatched the entire show like a year and a half ago and as an adult it still definitely holds up extremely well. I honestly liked it more now than when I was a kid.
As a POC, I hated how they seemed to only use the race swapping to gain attention for their show. They do nothing with those changes. Same with making Velma gay. Like Saber said, it seems like the changes were made just to check off boxes for what a “woke children’s cartoon” should have. That’s the most frustrating thing about this show, if they cared even a little bit it could’ve been a decent show. They clearly had some other script written and WB had them throw on the Scooby-Doo IP for clicks
To be fair Velma was originally mentioned to be a lesbian.
@@heysup24 Canon
I'm not a POC but I am queer and I partially disagree with this take. while yeah you're probably right that warner prob doesn't care about us, POC and queer people irl don't exist with a thorough reason or agenda behind them, we just are. I think we should be allowed to exist in media without the people behind it "doing something with it."
mystery incorporated she was gay same with that one movie
I honestly don't think you HAVE to give a good reason or write a story about someone's identity. It's a little off that white and straight are just the default and if you stray away from it you suddenly HAVE to explain it and put it in the story somehow or else it's just "woke pandering".
Like, can't a gay dude just exist? Unrelated to this one but I see everyone get up in arms whenever a character is gay and say that "there needs to be a reason or else it's bad story telling and adds nothing to the story.", as if a character's sexuality has to be explained.
It comes off like LGBTQ people HAVE to have some reason why they personally exist, rather than just simply existing. As if being LGBTQ is some sort of plot point in your life.
I guess this is unrelated but kind of related. If you made Velma white you wouldn't have to explain her race, but if you make her black you have to give an explanation as to why you made her that way? I get that you technically "changed" her race from past iterations. But do we really need a plot point where they poorly handle some Indian (she's actually Indian and not African America, but I guess everyone just sees dark skin and thinks "black" regardless) stereotype since they can't actually get identity political commentary correct.