To illustrate "momentum" in a world where "energy" seems to be the over-used measuring stick, I quote from a forum: "Here's a classic example: a 45 ACP with a 230 gr bullet @ 850 fps produces 369 ft lbs of energy. A 9mm with a 115 gr bullet @ 1200 fps produces nearly identical energy of 368 ft lbs. Now for the experiment .... place bowling pins at 10 feet and shoot them "center mass" with both guns. The 9mm will barely wiggle the bowling pin whereas the 45 ACP will knock it over soundly." That illustration is an effectual transference of momentum from one object (the bullet) to another (the wooden pin). Bullets are meant to accomplish a task, that is, get through a medium (anticipated target material) to reach depths of vital organs and destroy those organs and systems to achieve a STOP of the threat. The only off-switch is the central nervous system of animals and people beneath the brain. If that is a difficult target to reliably hit, the only other option is center-mass, near the lungs and heart and spine. Takes momentum to penetrate, hopefully the projectile is designed well enough to crush/destroy those systems and effect a stop of the threat. Trouble is, too many are attempting to over-simplify a multifaceted or complex subject in a single slogan, quotation, or factor and it will NEVER happen because science and physics just won't allow it.
Knock down power?? Kinetic energy?? I’m not thinking on those terms, over 100 years ago Browning solved all Military concerns with the first 1911, Colt was right behind. Smart guys, therefore I’ll follow their lead. I’m not smart enough to reinvent the wheel.
Ok I’m done with drooling over the Magnums and latest and greatest cartridges! I’m sticking with the classics century’s old classics, 30-06, 270Win & 375H&H for Dangerous Game. Then I’m getting my practice in at the Range to practice practical positional shooting for accuracy. Thanks guys! Live Long, Aim small & Hit small. Aloha.
I just watched the Knockdown Power podcast, and everything makes a lot of sense. But I have to ask about scenes that have appeared in some movies where the "buffalo hunter" shoots a 2000-pound Bison with something like a Sharps 54 cal buffalo rifle, or the "great white hunter on the African veldt shoots an 8000-pound elephant, and with ONE SHOT in each case, the great animal goes down in a cloud of dust! So what am I missing?
That's fine if you're hunting animals weighing tons. Me, all I want is to stop the two-legged predator intent upon harming me or my family so my 9mm with Critical Defense ammo fills the bill. Believe me, I would NOT use my handgun to shoot a grizzly or a 1 ton Bison (which would be illegal anyway).
First time watching the cranks- very glad I did. Can't disagree at all, but offer one question: when the danger comes from teeth & claws, would you agree that greater energy/momentum (or take your pick of measurement) still matters? I carry a .41 magnum in the wilderness when not carrying a centerfire rifle. For social situations, which is arguably generally more forgiving of lesser ballistics, I generally carry a 9mm or maybe a 40 (which I shoot better due to the larger frame & sight radius). Where I live one never knows what one might encounter. BTW- glad to hear the TKO debunked again. Momentum certainly is a valuable concept, but that notion went haywire in its application when Taylor got carried away, as you stated. Well done, gents.
Regarding the .41 Magnum, the key here is "permanent wound cavity" so the .41 does better than a 9mm with non-expanding bullets. The challenge for the 9mm is if it expands, there's not enough mass to penetrate deeply. The extra mass of the heavier .41 (say, 180 to 210 grains?) will help it to penetrate more deeply, causing more damage - that "permanent would cavity" we spoke of. Indeed, with dangerous game, a heavier, larger caliber works better, but nothing is magical! If you have a 9mm which could penetrate to the brain of a bear, it'd kill it as well as a .41 or .44. But that's not done reliably. For a body shot, the deeper penetration of the heavier bullet would be more reliable. But really you need a rifle - or a shotgun loaded with high-quality slugs! Roy Huntington
@@fmgpubs Agree completely, Sir! I couldn't imagine you'd answer much differently. You did say this, but then later discussion went to cartridge seeming less relevant. Maintaining control is paramount, but not every encounter is necessarily social in nature. And yes, a rifle is always better in the wilderness, when possible. Thank you for your responding.
I carry a 9mm because it gives me more chances to poke more holes in the bad guy. A 380 would work just as well but it simply doesn't hold as many go bangs in it. :)
Not to mention the fact that the price of that ammo allows you to buy MORE ammo to poke holes with and the large variety and choices available in that caliber.
I ordered a 40 rather than a 9 because 1. If I am going to put up with the high pressure blast of a 9mm I might as well go for the bigger hole. 2. I never was much of a "me too" kind of guy.
OK, I think we as experienced gun users, know all about this so called Knock Down Power as shown to us in the Movies, which use this as what they call Artistic License for Entertainment Value. This has become an age old argument and for what it's worth just good as conversation among those uninformed people who believe in the Magic of movies and TV! Having said this, there is IMO much merit for Stopping Power as a real factor in Guns and Ammo being used, which I will not elaborate at this time. The bottom line in any shooting scenario whether it be target or real life, is that SHOT PLACEMENT is the only factor to consider when you talk about Stopping Power and Yes, we must consider to a degree the Gun and also the Size of the Bullet! Just as a side thought, The FBI Stats show that more people are shot and killed in the USA by a .22 cal bullet than any other bullet! Believe it or NOT!
Yes, and President Reagan is a good example as he almost died from a .22LR bullet. Definitely a .22LR that HITS the target is better than a .45ACP that went everywhere except on the target.
I am 65 years old with arthritus so I bought a S&W M&P9 EZ. I took a lesson with it and I really like it !
To illustrate "momentum" in a world where "energy" seems to be the over-used measuring stick, I quote from a forum:
"Here's a classic example: a 45 ACP with a 230 gr bullet @ 850 fps produces 369 ft lbs of energy. A 9mm with a 115 gr bullet @ 1200 fps produces nearly identical energy of 368 ft lbs. Now for the experiment .... place bowling pins at 10 feet and shoot them "center mass" with both guns. The 9mm will barely wiggle the bowling pin whereas the 45 ACP will knock it over soundly."
That illustration is an effectual transference of momentum from one object (the bullet) to another (the wooden pin).
Bullets are meant to accomplish a task, that is, get through a medium (anticipated target material) to reach depths of vital organs and destroy those organs and systems to achieve a STOP of the threat. The only off-switch is the central nervous system of animals and people beneath the brain. If that is a difficult target to reliably hit, the only other option is center-mass, near the lungs and heart and spine. Takes momentum to penetrate, hopefully the projectile is designed well enough to crush/destroy those systems and effect a stop of the threat.
Trouble is, too many are attempting to over-simplify a multifaceted or complex subject in a single slogan, quotation, or factor and it will NEVER happen because science and physics just won't allow it.
It's not the power to "knock them down" that matters, so much as the power to "make them leak"...
Great program guys. Lots of good information.
Would love to see Roy do a retro last 2 pages on the Star PD someday. Still a viable carry with good loads and fresh Shok-buffs!
Me, too, on the 9 EZ! Works just like the 1911, just easier on the old bones, so what's not to like?
Knock down power??
Kinetic energy??
I’m not thinking on those terms, over 100 years ago Browning solved all Military concerns with the first 1911, Colt was right behind. Smart guys, therefore I’ll follow their lead. I’m not smart enough to reinvent the wheel.
Ok I’m done with drooling over the Magnums and latest and greatest cartridges!
I’m sticking with the classics century’s old classics, 30-06, 270Win & 375H&H for Dangerous Game.
Then I’m getting my practice in at the Range to practice practical positional shooting for accuracy.
Thanks guys! Live Long, Aim small & Hit small. Aloha.
I just watched the Knockdown Power podcast, and everything makes a lot of sense. But I have to ask about scenes that have appeared in some movies where the "buffalo hunter" shoots a 2000-pound Bison with something like a Sharps 54 cal buffalo rifle, or the "great white hunter on the African veldt shoots an 8000-pound elephant, and with ONE SHOT in each case, the great animal goes down in a cloud of dust! So what am I missing?
That's fine if you're hunting animals weighing tons. Me, all I want is to stop the two-legged predator intent upon harming me or my family so my 9mm with Critical Defense ammo fills the bill. Believe me, I would NOT use my handgun to shoot a grizzly or a 1 ton Bison (which would be illegal anyway).
First time watching the cranks- very glad I did. Can't disagree at all, but offer one question: when the danger comes from teeth & claws, would you agree that greater energy/momentum (or take your pick of measurement) still matters? I carry a .41 magnum in the wilderness when not carrying a centerfire rifle. For social situations, which is arguably generally more forgiving of lesser ballistics, I generally carry a 9mm or maybe a 40 (which I shoot better due to the larger frame & sight radius). Where I live one never knows what one might encounter. BTW- glad to hear the TKO debunked again. Momentum certainly is a valuable concept, but that notion went haywire in its application when Taylor got carried away, as you stated. Well done, gents.
Regarding the .41 Magnum, the key here is "permanent wound cavity" so the .41 does better than a 9mm with non-expanding bullets. The challenge for the 9mm is if it expands, there's not enough mass to penetrate deeply. The extra mass of the heavier .41 (say, 180 to 210 grains?) will help it to penetrate more deeply, causing more damage - that "permanent would cavity" we spoke of. Indeed, with dangerous game, a heavier, larger caliber works better, but nothing is magical! If you have a 9mm which could penetrate to the brain of a bear, it'd kill it as well as a .41 or .44. But that's not done reliably. For a body shot, the deeper penetration of the heavier bullet would be more reliable.
But really you need a rifle - or a shotgun loaded with high-quality slugs!
Roy Huntington
@@fmgpubs Agree completely, Sir! I couldn't imagine you'd answer much differently. You did say this, but then later discussion went to cartridge seeming less relevant. Maintaining control is paramount, but not every encounter is necessarily social in nature. And yes, a rifle is always better in the wilderness, when possible. Thank you for your responding.
I carry a 9mm because it gives me more chances to poke more holes in the bad guy. A 380 would work just as well but it simply doesn't hold as many go bangs in it. :)
Not to mention the fact that the price of that ammo allows you to buy MORE ammo to poke holes with and the large variety and choices available in that caliber.
I ordered a 40 rather than a 9 because 1. If I am going to put up with the high pressure blast of a 9mm I might as well go for the bigger hole. 2. I never was much of a "me too" kind of guy.
OK, I think we as experienced gun users, know all about this so called Knock Down Power as shown to us in the Movies, which use this as what they call Artistic License for Entertainment Value. This has become an age old argument and for what it's worth just good as conversation among those uninformed people who believe in the Magic of movies and TV! Having said this, there is IMO much merit for Stopping Power as a real factor in Guns and Ammo being used, which I will not elaborate at this time. The bottom line in any shooting scenario whether it be target or real life, is that SHOT PLACEMENT is the only factor to consider when you talk about Stopping Power and Yes, we must consider to a degree the Gun and also the Size of the Bullet! Just as a side thought, The FBI Stats show that more people are shot and killed in the USA by a .22 cal bullet than any other bullet! Believe it or NOT!
Yes, and President Reagan is a good example as he almost died from a .22LR bullet. Definitely a .22LR that HITS the target is better than a .45ACP that went everywhere except on the target.
The myth persists because of the anonymous internet and FUDDS 😂😂😂
Shotgun shell seems to be the answer
Hmmmm…. Bullets with Boosters to go faster later lol