Glyn Johns Shows His Mic Technique 1
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2016
- This is a re-post. I cleaned up the audio you you can actually hear what Glyn is saying. If done correctly this technique is fantastic.
Seriously, I have a hard time believing that no one cleaned up the atrocious audio in the original. Your talking about audio engineers or to be audio engineers recording the one and only Glyn Johns and the audio in the original is beyond horrible.
“Do you measure the mics?” “No, it’s bullshit” this was so good
"If you stop with all the stupid patching, trying to make it marvelous...you can actually have a blast."
This dude is a fucking GEM.
There aren't too many videos worth watching in 240p but this is certainly one of them. Thanks.
Glyn Johns has forgotten more about engineering than most people will ever know. He's a master, and these guys will never forget this experience.
when everyone left ....i would have recorded on those drums - and then been able to say -glyn johns engineered my kit ! - lol
This technique is awesome. I use it for 20 years. The stereo image is really incredible and the result so natural..
This guy is my kind of engineer/producer. He knows what SOUNDS good and not concerned with some rules people think will improve their recordings. Love this video :)
As if anyone said the drums on Let It Be or Led Zeppelin 1 sounded bad. They sounded awesome using this technique!! 3-4 mics is all you need!!
If you use a fourth mic, where do YOU place it?
@@DailyBrusher personally I would put one under the snare
@@DailyBrusherI record with practically this setup and I use the two overheads for the majority of my drum sound with a mic on the kick drum and a mic on the snare drum
all you need is 3 $20,000 microphones and you can sound like Bonham!
I used this method on a session today and it worked really well, I was shocked. I have to admit I did use a tape measure though 8-)
There's no need to close mic a studio drum kit, Glyn Johns is bang on here, it's bullshit. Tune the kit properly, 3 decent mics and away you go. The bass drum mic is actually better about a foot from the front of the drum and dead centre.
Ill have to try that..... He's done it before... There is just no substitute for experience...
I went to school here! So cool to see
Glyn johns he is such a really good mic Genius
This is a truly valuable video. Thanks for filming. So x2 U87 or U47’s positioned as shown. Does Glynn mean run each input 10db hotter than ‘normal’ and then fade the master down?
Yes that's what I got from it, I think he says "mic heads" which I took to mean "head amps" which is what some companies call the mic pre-amp section of a console; on a Yamaha M7 the gain control is called Head Amp. So I think he means, run the mic *channel* 10dB hotter "than you should" as he says, then drop the faders 10dB to compensate. Interesting! I love that he's not concerned with some theoretical best-case scenario but what just sounds good.
@@bernardw4842 definitely a pre-daw thing to do sadly but hmm will still try it!
@@chinmeysway Yeah I've been thinking about that, if you run any outboard mic pre-amps that would be the place to do it... run the gain 10dB harder there and if it's got an output control then reduce that by 10 to compensate. You COULD just set the equivalent gain and fader settings on a channel of your interface but I don't think you'd get the same result... he's talking about running the whole channel hotter, I don't really understand why, and 10dB hotter than what (usual for overheads? I'm guessing), or does he just mean, gain it up so the VU shows the usual optimum VU's you'd use on that channel for just about anything then give it 10 more I suppose. That comment has to be in regards to the type of console/pre-amps he'd typically be using at the time. With a decent high-dynamic range interface I don't think it's a specific requirement, I think he's just saying, get good strong signal because you might need plenty of dynamics and EQ, and after that it's the lower-level details of that signal we want to retain.
He just means that running faders a little lower back in the day sounded better to him.
Glyn Johns he is really good engineer
To the OP - sorry if you answered this before but what did you use to clean up the audio? And in what state was the original recording?
did he say not to spread them out full stereo? and to just put them at 50/50 L/R? what's the recommended spread in this case
Whatever sounds best to you, tbh. I usually go abt 80% and I'm fine with the sound
I would like to try it, AND Without Knowing the type of microphones and the pre's that he is using it would be hard to get the same effect with a digital system. Great Mics and great pre's (and knowing which types he is using) are everything in getting a great drum sound. U47? U87, Chandlers? Neve? 😊
U67s or 47s, or Telefunken 251s. That's from his book. "...it is not that precise. It is just a matter of using common sense and believing it will work, making small adjustments depending on the kit, the balance the drummer is giving you, and what they are playing."
Listen to ‘The third story’ podcast no. 143 by Leo Sidran - Glynn says U87 or U47’s.
A friend of his was telling me that he just walks around the room while listening, and puts mics where it sounds good.
2 Mics! Can we use Dynamic mics on it?
This is like Beethoven given a master class on music composition. Glyn Johns is a master of music production and sound engineering.
I'm not an engineer, so a dumb question: how do you run a mic at +10db? Does he mean you turn the preamp up 10db before it reaches the mixer/fader?
U87 has a -10db cut switch on it
@@markesquivelarvizu6942 Thank you!
@@morganfisherart welcome!
@@markesquivelarvizu6942 hmm no - this must mean crank the mic preamps more than you usually would, though its not likely he's thinking of digital recording / DAW; he must be thinking of recording to tape. mics dont boost - they only cut, or are at 0dB.
Where was this filmed?
epic
which pixel is glyn johns ?
The key to this is using identical mics across the kit, and giving 6dB/octave low cut AND the 10dB lift on the pre-amps.
I have only measured twice:
0.80m nice separation, bit thin
0.70m nice separation, good 'arse' on the sound!
(Behringer C-2 matched pair)
Works a treat, and yes ... there is a mathematical proof for this set-up but, if you skived off Fourier analysis and analytic geometry, you'll not get it.
CAN you say IRONY?
Are the mics panned stereo? Or is this strictly mono?
I believe the technique has the mic above the floor Tom panned hard left and the mic above the snare panned halfway to the right. (That can be reversed for drummer perspective). It is a stereo technique
Anyone know where this was recorded? lol
Gil and Tommy LiPuma center for creative arts. I recorded this there. ua-cam.com/users/shorts9lZbOo2sPRI?feature=share
Was this recorded with a potato?
😂😂😂
The kit, the player and the room count for everything here. This is a mic technique which will only work with a quality kit, room and musician.
Then you’ve never tried it.
I Agree I love this technique it’s bad ass for Rock Music
a couple of vintage u67s don't hurt either, but the room and kit and musician should be foregone conclusions if you are recording there to begin with. Listen to what he says at the very end. You can make it complicated, or you can have a blast.
The thing is, if you have a crap room, crap kit, and crap drummer...why are you recording to begin with?
@@eugenefullstack7613 if you have a good drummer but a crap room and kit and can’t afford a good one of either than you have to make due
He does say he's going back to just picking up what the drummer is hearing because s/he's presumably got the balance and drum sounds already and knows what they're doing. At his level he doesn't have to try and "fix" bad playing
If you are new to recording in particular, the less mics the better, and even when you are experienced, never use more than you actually need.
"It's really simple" ...when you're using Ux7s in a world class studio.
I have seen many examples of this technique using SM57 for both. Probably more in live applications.
if you take away that patching shit up and trying to marvellous, your going to have a blast!
so cool!
When recording, do you pan the overheads left and right?
Subtle ssl diss 😂
Ironically the quality of this.video is total crap.
brilliant man. kind of a prig, though, no? trade-offs...
Great technique back in the days but in modern Rock and Pop Productions it doesn't work at all.
well here I go again being the only voice of my thinking of this silly business presented here, and to those of you that say, OMG I tried this and the image is so incredible and I've been recording like this for 100 years and its amazing, well to those folks I say, great and just carry on, I'm sure its all going to work out fine for you, Oh your short buss ride home is here now, here ill walk you out to meet the driver now, Ok then cya next week, Dont forget your down coat with your name written on the label in red sharpie by mom.
So here we go.
Yea yea time alignment is important here buddy but I'm sorry to have to just come out and say it, this very nice well-intentioned man is just stuck in time past. Let's be real he could not manage a mic stand, really dude? really? These days to fulfill the need for well-defined item-specific processing in the mix the close micing of each item and proper phase attention of course is the proper modern technique to recording a drum set such as our studio kit being a Pert Phillips kind of setup, this is just not an acceptable recording technique. if it were we would all use it as its so simple, But in reality is not doable in a real-world session, I am surprised at how many folks will continue to let those old guys bring this and similar time aligned 2 or 3 mic applications to the floor and not call them out on it, it's fine for the day back when no one wanted to hear the HH or process snare for gated verbs and so on, and then praise them for revealing this so-called easy perfect way. NO they were lazy and were not creative and were so confused as to why when they try to execute a 14-mic drum recording they end up with thin sounds , well it requires attention to the drums as a separate multi-track mixing session inside the actual session and it intimidates them and it "takes so much time" well I have time and time again put a modern 12 or more mic recording of a kit up against any one of these string measured triangle this and that recordings and it's not even a close result, knowing it's not going to sound alike sure but the usability viability of the 2 or 3 mic session is ZIP zero, I would as the producer be pissed at the person who wasted the time and scrap it and get back to the hard work of tracking a drum kit. I don't mean to sound or be disrespectful of him but he is a time past as it goes. This is all fun and cute indulging him but they had the sound of just a very bland forgettable drum sound. Talk about a way to piss off a drummer , and that is the way they approached drums, No regard at all for the drums as a musical instrument.
But rather as a human click track and don't you dare play anything that represents a multi-tom roll or anything that would require them to have to admit that this is inadequate, so if all you have is kick and snare then yup two mics will work and there ya go easy,. But that is just not the case any longer, drummers are an important part of the material and these guys would have nothing to do with that. they won't admit it until out of the studio and talking freely for a moment. Again should we just continue to let them show this stuff and smile and clap and just be nice and still do what we know is correct or do we call them out on it and say, I see your point here of time alignment sir but now what about instrument articulation being reproduced sir and just how will I achieve xy or z when mixing with this technique sir? and they will either talk in circles and avoid the question or they will say oh well then you will need to mic each item but that is a lot of work and time so I would adjust your lofty production ideas and "KEEP IT SIMPLE" Simple is the key. It's just not reality, sometimes or most times these things are not simple and that is why it takes dedication and constant vigilance to be familiar and experienced with a modern approach. If it were this easy we would all do it and the old crappy way of the multi-mic approach would be the day of the past. well it's not, and its only old dudes that recorded glen Cambell and orchestrated music in the 60s and back that continue to front this crap, and then newbies just think its an idea straight from the books of magic, and then start passing it on as if its a secret from the past of all those great recordings, NO they are not great recordings and NO they are not secrets they are old habits born out of limited track count and mic count, as well as time, as the idea of more than 15 min to mic and sound check a kit in those days was not only insane to them but grounds for dropping any engineer that would try such a thing and hire the cat that will have drums miced in 5 min for sound check, So I appreciate all the enthusiasm but I don't understand it why someone just one does not want to be the odd man out and say it, This is an aged old inadequate not supportive ideas of what the demands of a modern session in the mix will require. these old dudes could not sit in a session of today without their heads exploding from the true complexity, and furthermore I am sure they don't possess the experience in the ear to even hear the difference in that they would be so stubborn to be not affected by what they don't hear.
You're hilarious. I like a black sheep too, I'm a black sheep myself. So one to another, you'll have no problem at all with me totally calling you on this. You're full of shit :) Frankly, this is a lot of hilarious bullshit, too. You have no clue what you're talking about. Even though I can see why you might think that. But you couldn't be fuller of crustier shit. Fortunate enough to work for a world-class audio company that specializes in procuring sounds recorded and mixed at the highest quality. In short, I was raised by a family of audiophiles, musicians, and recording engineers. So it follows I've observed both modern and vintage recording methods a lot, both online and in person. I've been in the best studios in the world, been to Dolby Labs more than once blah blah blah I've heard some of the best rooms, best musicians, and best instruments, both live and in the studio, been involved in construction of who cares? This old man may not be Alan Blumlein, but he essentially invented the first and most ubiquitous stereo drum miking method used during the blossoming of rock music in the 60s and 70s. You may think Zepp 1 is dated, OK - to each his own - but you're full of shit if you think all of his drum sounds are bland. Throw up a high quality lossless rip of the drums on Who's Next on a proper hi-fi system and that shit speaks and doesn't sound old at all. It's full-frequency, has all the transients you could want, and sounds distinct, yet real - unlike anyone elses record. Also, you're even more full of shit if you think drummers feel disrespected by having their drum set treated as a unified instrument? It's often the other way around. I've been playing drums my whole life. Met many of the great session drummers ever, the Vinnie Colaiuta's and the Abe Laboriel Jr's of the world may want more tweakability. Generally, they want what's best for the song. And if they have a vision for it, they'll supplement their preferred method with something extra if they want added control. It's nice to have control of the snare drum, and primarily, the advantage of multimiked modern drum setups is the advantage of control. But in no way though is that control (especially for most pop or rock music) necessary to make great recordings. True, we drummers like our extra control. If someone else is mixing or engineering our record, we are lucky to have anyone with ears, let alone someone with ears like Glyn Johns. People don't hire you for your miking method - they hire you for how you treat the client, and your ears. Great sounds are made by people who have both. Also: while Bonham was happier with Andy Johns, plenty of other legends loved Glyns work. And UA-cam comments are still flowing years later about something this grandpa came up with in the 60s (when he was in his twenties). Wondering: How many gold records have you engineered? How many great drummers have you recorded? I've been involved in recording a few. Your understanding of what makes a great drum sound seems entirely dependent on how many options you give. There's less room to fuck it up this way. Requires more personal responsibility. It's not for everyone. If you want control, add spot mics or try a different method. But frankly, if you do this method right, with high quality mics, and use your ears, you are going to get an accurate picture of the kit, just as valid as any other stereo miking technique, with a touch more personality, too. The drummer may want an "accurate" picture, he may not. But starting with that accurate picture is a very not bland and very valid / important practice. You can always abstract something. It's harder to get to real than it is to get to abstract. So pipe down XD If it was just a granny method, frankly it wouldn't still be so beloved in the world of rock and pop music. So enjoy being the black sheep on this thread! It's fun to slag on the crusty (perhaps old-fashioned) legend. But you wouldn't even really be comparing him to other methods at all were it not for what he did. Stereo drum miking in rock music was 200% informed by what he did. Your youtube comment itself owes him a small debt. Fortunately, he's a bit of a black sheep himself, too. After all, he's a guy who accidentally invented a mic method. Look, just because some old geezer is given respect and props doesn't mean he deserves it. You're right. In those cases, the work speaks for itself. It doesn't speak to you the way other multimic setups do. Great. You're part of a large multitude of opinions. Opinions are assholes.
And the music is better today for your way of thinking is it?
@@timr2618, I am not talking about music, talking about engineering, so it's clear you have no clue what dialog you are inserting yourself into. OMG, how have you got this far in life?
Man, he may be old-fashioned, but his sound has influenced entire generations of musicians. If you're used to working a certain way today, you have to say thanks to the great engineers of the past, too.