I'm glad the Marine World is finally catching on. Several RV manufacturers have eliminated generators by going to lithium packs with high output alternators on the engine. Some of the systems are powerful enough to run electric stoves and the air conditioning unit for 8 to 11 hours.
sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot my login password. I would love any assistance you can offer me!
@Bryson Patrick I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
Using Lithium ion batteries and a smart controlled alternator makes more sense than a generator, for boats that have diesel drives. It's already becoming an industry standard for smaller boats.
Hello, Philip. I’ve seen many of your videos. I’ve seen Nigel and his video of Integral. I’ve sailed extensively on cats. But...I have not subscribed to your channel...until this morning. You will be hearing from me.
It completely depends on what you consider autonomy, as a cruising boat is not a car. If autonomy is to completely avoid the use of fossil fuel relying only on regeneration (solar, hydro and wind) the technology is not up to it if you want autonomy intended as cruising range while motoring. Even with the largest battery packs completely loaded you have a very little autonomy if you need to use electric engines, I guess less then 100 miles, even if without knowing the drag of the hulls, the cruising speed and how large is the battery pack it is impossible to figure out the real range. It can be good for some users, the ones that do only short passages or the ones that can wait maybe several days that the wind shows up if they find themselves in a very large flat calm area, but it can not be acceptable for other people. Still it is the only option to don't rely on fossil fuel, possible, but at a price, limited range while motoring. With only a couple of KW of solar regeneration and only day time, that is the best that you can pull out of a sailing catamaran, you can not regenerate enough energy to use the motors for a long time, the range is basically depending on the energy you have in the batteries. Still some people is sailing in this way, an example is Sailing Uma, but it is not a thing that all the people can do, as not all the people live aboard and has unlimited time for their long passages. The greenest boat is the one that can use the sails for propulsion better (in low wind and upwind) and that can generate energy for the other tasks with solar, hydro and wind. But if autonomy, intended as range motoring, is needed there are only 2 ways: diesel engines or electric motors and a diesel generator to power them when range beyond what the battery allows is needed. In both the cases the diesel consumption can be minimal if the skipper uses the engines only as last resort, to escape a large flat calm or evade an upcoming storm, and accept to sometimes sail slower then the average, with a boat that is not a sitting duck upwind or with a light breeze.
Switching to renewable energy is the goal for sure. At present autonomy and safety dictate that you either are prepared to drift a lot if you have poor solar gain or not enough footprint on deck to have enough solar. Battery storage limits how far and how fast you can go on electrics, or the amount and rapidity with which you can get renewables to charge them. Presently, on a voyaging yacht, to get any range or speed you rely on either diesel engines or a diesel generator to charge your batteries to run your electrics. The key is to have a boat that sails in the lightest possible air. The wind is free and clean. The more you are sailing the less you are burning fuel. Take care. Phil
Agreed on all fronts. You clearly get it and show you know what you are talking about. Now a boat designed to carry very little gear, a sort of experimental green machine with a deck of total solar and narrow, slivery hulls can go a lot further on electrics than a laden cruising sailboat. Right now, a cruising cat, even a light performance cat such as those we build, has limited range under power on electrics without soon resorting to a generator. This is all about the energy density advantage diesel has over batteries at present. We are going with the Integrels and sticking with diesel engines for now. Tons of solar on top, energy efficient appliances and lights, enough sail to move at windspeed in light airs, that is where we are at with Balance right now. Take care. Phil
Balance Catamarans love your cats, but you’ll have to improve your humour detection systems. Yes that one would probably not register. Not my best work...
Hi McRae, I would encourage you to look at the actual performance specs of the Silent Yachts. They carry a massive amount of Li Ion batteries, a huge generator, and two large electric motors. The amount of weight and space occupied just isn't practical for a performance oriented sailboat. Even with all that equipment, their boats still don't have enough range at a speed that we feel is sufficient for long distance cruising. Full electric or hybrid system technology will eventually make sense for cruising boats once the energy density of batteries increase 10x or more, which is about 10 years out in my opinion. Until then, we feel that Integrel will be the tech to bridge the gap between conventional power generation and full electric drivetrain.
Nothing new with Silent Yachts technology. We can use the same things. Andrew rightly points out the issue: energy density and storage. If you want enough lithium batteries to go 200 miles without a charge our boats would sink with the battery weight. Weight impacts performance in a sailing cat and the less weight and the better the performance the less you need to motor at all. If you can do wind-speed in 6 or 7 knots of wind you will seldom need to motor. But when you are becalmed and a storm is approaching you want to be able to position yourself with good range and great speed. Anyways, our boats use very little fuel. Phil
McRae Rembert Ive run the numbers on Silent- great for island hopping with a couple days between moving. On a passage you would be running the generator %50-80 of the time.
The diesel engine directly driving a shaft is the most efficient way to propel if solar, wind are not available and the battery does not have the legs. Propulsion is a pretty power consuming function. Bear in mind that a genset is at best 80% of the efficiency of direct drive and then you have at least 5% loss in the electric motor, but if the motor is operating slowly (to save battery power for example) then it may be operating at a 30% loss or possibly worse. On this basis the engine driving the shaft and a Integral Generator sucking up the energy between the propellor draw power curve and the engine optimal power curve you have the best of both worlds. If you are going to improve on that you will need a variable pitch propellor. If you make more energy than you consume in house loads, then supplement your engine drive with an electric drive to consume power concurrently or independently drive the props for short trips, mooring, re anchoring etc.
Why can’t an all electric sale boat be supplemented with solar, wind and a generator? Put a Tesla motor on each propeller and the just one generator to supplement the lithium ion batteries.
What about a lighting strike, has the Integrel system been tested under 1 billion volts of electricity? If there is such a thing to replicate that power. What would happen to the Integrel system? Does it have , as an option, a power conditioner or a UPS to help protect all electronics?
Luckily we have never experienced this but would recommend reaching out to Integral directly to get more info regarding this scenario. We have been installing Integral systems on the majority of our boats and have experienced no issues.
Would love to hear more of your thoughts Andrew,owned and sailed large cats for over 25 years ,one diesel and one electric one be great combo for crazing cat???
@@Mark-ou3xs especially with these game changing integrel generators. lots of solar, not hard on a large cat roof at 400w per panel. big lithium bank, wouldnt use diesel motor much. both engines on shafts, just need to get the thrust of each prop the same.
@@andrewhodgdon2786 Not sure why there is a lot of complexity other than the throttle mechanism. One diesel/saildrive is standard out of the box + Integrel. The other side is Electric saildrive. You don't need a huge lithium bank since you use diesel for long-distance and charging. For regen, motor sailing, close maneuvering, or a quick bit of power for sail changes, etc the electric is perfect.
@@bertmacdonald337 yep, and even so you need a fast boat and good wind to generate huge power as the relation between speed and electricity generation is not linear. At 6 knots you can generate few hundred watts, at 15 many KW. Or at a smaller scale there are hydro generators that don't require a complete boat conversion, but afaik at best one of those hydro generators, Watt & Sea is an example, can produce 0.6 KW, that is any way more then enough, coupled with solar, to have all the energy you need to run your systems on a passage, but obviously not enough to run the air conditioner or heat your boat in cold areas.
There are bolt-on hydro generators such as the products from Watt & Sea. We would be happy to add these to the Balance as an option if desired. Cheers!
Hi Phil. Nice tech. Have you guys&gals ever looked into mg energy systems (netherlands)?. They have batteries with very high energy density and high C ratings. If I would get a boat, I'd get integrel with MG (2 integrels-each engine on a 1000A LV MG+ 6x7.2kw bateries LFP or HE) overkill? it would be lighter then the genset.
I hope the world as we know it doesn't end in the coming years and crypto will explode in price. Then I will buy a brand new Balance with this system installed and sail to the end of the world..
Hi Peter, we have thoroughly discussed this topic in a previous video. The reality is that a hybrid setup is less efficient, overly complicated, and suffers from limited speed and range. It can be a good choice for a "weekend warrior" but we don't think it is practical for long distance cruising. Here is a link to the video: ua-cam.com/video/e0q98-JQPLk/v-deo.html
Again, we just keep going over and over this! I think it is best to look at why some cars are plug in hybrid and others all electric - and why some electrics have a small diesel engine (the BMW 3) as a range extender. And yes you can put on a diesel generator to run electrics and really must if you want any range. Our point is you are still burning fuel, and unless you get two generators you have redundancy. Again, weekend warrior, electric fine. Cruiser, either dual diesels or electrics with dual generators. But as I have said to exhaustion, you want electrics you can get them and have them and live with their negatives and positives like any other choice. We simply feel dual diesels, a lot of solar, Integrel alternators, lithium batteries, is the way to go. If battery storage got a whole lot better or solar was three times more efficient electric cats will start to have appeal for us. Not yet. Phil
I think people keep asking because it makes sense, and it’s what people want. Overall you end up with less weight, less maintenance, less noise, and regeneration capabilities. Seems like most yachts have a generators, and for good reason. And, all of this talk about being “more green” totally misses the point about the advantages of electric motors. People want electric to lower maintenance and increase reliability- no starter motors, transmissions, filters, impellers, head gaskets, and all the other crap that boat owners are maintaining. And you get regen while underway, when you need loads of power for auto-pilot and instruments. And if keeps your sail load steady when surfing down waves. And you get loads of torque to maneuver. Electric motors are about simplicity - there is enough maintenance to deal with. And who wants to sit in an anchorage with Diesel engines running to top off batteries?
Balance Catamarans Phil you need a ‘cut n paste’ reply. But It’s a positive thing people exploring the elec options and it’s the nature of your game so get used to these queries and keep an open mind. Wasn’t long ago people said foiling mono hulls? Never.
Hi guys, actually SV Top Secret validates Phil's and Andrew's point. That for a cruising catamaran the technology is not there yet. SV Top Secret is a highly refitted 58 ft Vovage catamaran, it has 38 solar panels generating 3800 watts and a very large li ion batterybank. This powers 4 Oceanvolt electric engines total of around 100 hp and according to the owner it could run at full power for 25 minutes before the batteries are depleted. Recently the owner decided to replace 2 of the 4 electric engines with 2 diesel engines. So as for now it's not feasible to have a fully electric cruising yacht. Phil and Andrew I admire your passion for creating in my opinion the best performance cruising catamaran.
Why isn't the word HYBRID ever mentioned? Genuine question. Replace diesel engines by low voltage generator to charge lithium batteries very efficiently. In most situations you will only use your electric motors for short times, i.e. in/out of marina or anchorage, or getting through tight spots. With performance cat like a balance you would get great regen from 10 knots of apparent wind. If you end up becalmed you then use the hybrid system to motor (not very fast) for as long as you need. Why isn't this technology being offered on a large scale? Sometimes I hear the answer that "what is the point of replacing diesel engines by a diesel gen", but it is not the same at all, You would use the gen a lot less than the diesel, saving on motors, maintenance, fuel, and pollution, and you get regen. What is not to like? Am I missing something?
no youre on the money. im with you there but you apparently need a large gen (12kw) to keep up with the energy needs if you were say motoring in 3 days of fog, i know this will be unusual but it scares people into dismissing the idea.all other times you would hardly start it up. im doing a costing ( dollars, weights, pleasure) of full elec, hybrid and trad systems on a 52 cat at the mo. ocean volt is about 100k more than trad but still doing my homework.
@@simonhantler8062 How about one diesel and one electric with a good alternator to boot? Could be a bit awkward for manoeuvers, but you might get used to it...Could be a lot cheaper...
tonewreck1 that was my first post, one of each. As long as the thrust is equal I don’t see an issue. These integrels aren’t cheap, $13k approx but game changers sort of.....Although it’s still requires a deisel motor which everyone’s trying to get away from.
I saw your post afterwards...nothing is cheap....but it would maybe pay for itself in the end...? Still cheaper and lighter than a generator and less maintenance.
Wish that were so! Among our buyers are some of the most highly trained engineers in the world, and in the field of energy storage. If what you wanted was so great, trust me they would ask for it. Sadly, forgive me, I have overseen 900 cat sales as of last year and been through the evolution of the electrics, hybrid, etc. Some of the projects were just flat out failures, the others you just accept the higher cost and lower reliability and low range of electrics. And you are wrong on the issue of how often you would use a generator, and why really to be safe you need two of them. Keep doing your homework and if you are able to cut through the internet babble and talk to captains who have run electric cats you will find your way to the truth. By the way, we are happy to do an Ocean Volt cat, so long as you listen to us on the negatives and are happy to live with them. Ocean Volt is a good product, also Torquedo. They are fine for day sailors and island hoppers. We think they are less ideal for ocean crossers, but of course, you can cross on anything and if sitting around waiting for wind is ok with you, or motoring at very slow speeds, or running the generators almost constantly is somehow more appealing than running diesels engines (this I cannot grasp, but hey to each his own), then get an electric cat. In the end it is about your happiness. I just rely on my experience when advising customers on new or used cats and speak from that 45 years of experience. A performance cat is better off with twin diesels. Phil
Currently no electric vehicle is green. Until lithium batteries can be recycled in an environmentally friendly manner an ICE is far greener. Besides plants consume CO2, the more of it the faster they grow.
Just when you thought the Balance Cat could not get any better, it's gets Integrel. Sweet!
I agree!☝️ 😎🏖🌴☀️🇦🇺
Been looking forward to Integrel being incorporated into a "production" catamaran. Great combination of technology & common sense.
So glad to see you using the Integral generator. Great tech.
This was a fabulous presentation. Thank you.
Great set up! Glad to see you all are making all of this a reality.
Phillip, looks awesome!!!
I'm glad the Marine World is finally catching on. Several RV manufacturers have eliminated generators by going to lithium packs with high output alternators on the engine. Some of the systems are powerful enough to run electric stoves and the air conditioning unit for 8 to 11 hours.
sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account?
I somehow forgot my login password. I would love any assistance you can offer me!
@Nehemiah King instablaster :)
@Bryson Patrick I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Bryson Patrick it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my ass :D
@Nehemiah King no problem =)
Using Lithium ion batteries and a smart controlled alternator makes more sense than a generator, for boats that have diesel drives. It's already becoming an industry standard for smaller boats.
Frikken Awesome... you guys rock!
Hello, Philip. I’ve seen many of your videos. I’ve seen Nigel and his video of Integral. I’ve sailed extensively on cats. But...I have not subscribed to your channel...until this morning. You will be hearing from me.
switching its energy to all electric is the ultimate goal.
it is the best way towards autonomy
👍👍👍
It completely depends on what you consider autonomy, as a cruising boat is not a car.
If autonomy is to completely avoid the use of fossil fuel relying only on regeneration (solar, hydro and wind) the technology is not up to it if you want autonomy intended as cruising range while motoring. Even with the largest battery packs completely loaded you have a very little autonomy if you need to use electric engines, I guess less then 100 miles, even if without knowing the drag of the hulls, the cruising speed and how large is the battery pack it is impossible to figure out the real range.
It can be good for some users, the ones that do only short passages or the ones that can wait maybe several days that the wind shows up if they find themselves in a very large flat calm area, but it can not be acceptable for other people.
Still it is the only option to don't rely on fossil fuel, possible, but at a price, limited range while motoring. With only a couple of KW of solar regeneration and only day time, that is the best that you can pull out of a sailing catamaran, you can not regenerate enough energy to use the motors for a long time, the range is basically depending on the energy you have in the batteries.
Still some people is sailing in this way, an example is Sailing Uma, but it is not a thing that all the people can do, as not all the people live aboard and has unlimited time for their long passages.
The greenest boat is the one that can use the sails for propulsion better (in low wind and upwind) and that can generate energy for the other tasks with solar, hydro and wind.
But if autonomy, intended as range motoring, is needed there are only 2 ways: diesel engines or electric motors and a diesel generator to power them when range beyond what the battery allows is needed. In both the cases the diesel consumption can be minimal if the skipper uses the engines only as last resort, to escape a large flat calm or evade an upcoming storm, and accept to sometimes sail slower then the average, with a boat that is not a sitting duck upwind or with a light breeze.
Switching to renewable energy is the goal for sure. At present autonomy and safety dictate that you either are prepared to drift a lot if you have poor solar gain or not enough footprint on deck to have enough solar. Battery storage limits how far and how fast you can go on electrics, or the amount and rapidity with which you can get renewables to charge them. Presently, on a voyaging yacht, to get any range or speed you rely on either diesel engines or a diesel generator to charge your batteries to run your electrics. The key is to have a boat that sails in the lightest possible air. The wind is free and clean. The more you are sailing the less you are burning fuel. Take care. Phil
Agreed on all fronts. You clearly get it and show you know what you are talking about. Now a boat designed to carry very little gear, a sort of experimental green machine with a deck of total solar and narrow, slivery hulls can go a lot further on electrics than a laden cruising sailboat. Right now, a cruising cat, even a light performance cat such as those we build, has limited range under power on electrics without soon resorting to a generator. This is all about the energy density advantage diesel has over batteries at present. We are going with the Integrels and sticking with diesel engines for now. Tons of solar on top, energy efficient appliances and lights, enough sail to move at windspeed in light airs, that is where we are at with Balance right now. Take care. Phil
Exciting news!
Fantastic electrical system
It sure is!
Another great video, Phil. How long would you estimate before all-electric ocean cruising does become a reality? Five years? Stay ib balance ;)
5 to 10 years. Performance cats will come first as they do not require so much effort to move under power.
@@balancecatamarans What would happen to the Integral system then? what is it in the roadmap?
Do they all communicate using the social media platform Parler?
Am told by a higher authority that Yanmar warranty voids if the integral is installed to it
is this an urban leyend?
@@rightright6582 according to Marcel Van Rooyen of Leopard, Yanmar advised Leopard/R&C directly
So a positive electrical system without any negatives! I'll show myself out...
Any complex system has negatives of course!
Balance Catamarans love your cats, but you’ll have to improve your humour detection systems. Yes that one would probably not register. Not my best work...
Isn’t there an all electric catamaran (Silent Yacht) already? Could you use some of their technology?
Hi McRae, I would encourage you to look at the actual performance specs of the Silent Yachts. They carry a massive amount of Li Ion batteries, a huge generator, and two large electric motors. The amount of weight and space occupied just isn't practical for a performance oriented sailboat. Even with all that equipment, their boats still don't have enough range at a speed that we feel is sufficient for long distance cruising. Full electric or hybrid system technology will eventually make sense for cruising boats once the energy density of batteries increase 10x or more, which is about 10 years out in my opinion. Until then, we feel that Integrel will be the tech to bridge the gap between conventional power generation and full electric drivetrain.
Nothing new with Silent Yachts technology. We can use the same things. Andrew rightly points out the issue: energy density and storage. If you want enough lithium batteries to go 200 miles without a charge our boats would sink with the battery weight. Weight impacts performance in a sailing cat and the less weight and the better the performance the less you need to motor at all. If you can do wind-speed in 6 or 7 knots of wind you will seldom need to motor. But when you are becalmed and a storm is approaching you want to be able to position yourself with good range and great speed. Anyways, our boats use very little fuel. Phil
Balance Catamarans I see your point
McRae Rembert Ive run the numbers on Silent- great for island hopping with a couple days between moving. On a passage you would be running the generator %50-80 of the time.
The diesel engine directly driving a shaft is the most efficient way to propel if solar, wind are not available and the battery does not have the legs. Propulsion is a pretty power consuming function. Bear in mind that a genset is at best 80% of the efficiency of direct drive and then you have at least 5% loss in the electric motor, but if the motor is operating slowly (to save battery power for example) then it may be operating at a 30% loss or possibly worse. On this basis the engine driving the shaft and a Integral Generator sucking up the energy between the propellor draw power curve and the engine optimal power curve you have the best of both worlds. If you are going to improve on that you will need a variable pitch propellor. If you make more energy than you consume in house loads, then supplement your engine drive with an electric drive to consume power concurrently or independently drive the props for short trips, mooring, re anchoring etc.
Why can’t an all electric sale boat be supplemented with solar, wind and a generator? Put a
Tesla motor on each propeller and the just one generator to supplement the lithium ion batteries.
would this be a better system? value wise
What about a lighting strike, has the Integrel system been tested under 1 billion volts of electricity? If there is such a thing to replicate that power. What would happen to the Integrel system? Does it have , as an option, a power conditioner or a UPS to help protect all electronics?
Luckily we have never experienced this but would recommend reaching out to Integral directly to get more info regarding this scenario. We have been installing Integral systems on the majority of our boats and have experienced no issues.
One deisel one elec propulsion. Balance.
There is a reason no builder has tried to do a system of that design yet. The complexity and cost is prohibitive.
Would love to hear more of your thoughts Andrew,owned and sailed large cats for over 25 years ,one diesel and one electric one be great combo for crazing cat???
@@Mark-ou3xs especially with these game changing integrel generators. lots of solar, not hard on a large cat roof at 400w per panel. big lithium bank, wouldnt use diesel motor much. both engines on shafts, just need to get the thrust of each prop the same.
I haven’t run into many people that use both motors except close quarters berthing etc etc,I wanted to change one engine out for a electric years ago,
@@andrewhodgdon2786 Not sure why there is a lot of complexity other than the throttle mechanism. One diesel/saildrive is standard out of the box + Integrel. The other side is Electric saildrive. You don't need a huge lithium bank since you use diesel for long-distance and charging. For regen, motor sailing, close maneuvering, or a quick bit of power for sail changes, etc the electric is perfect.
Can you incorporate MG batteries?
Just wondering..., any existing technology that can utilize hydro generated power ? Moving water turning a mini-turbine charging the LiOn batteries..
Oceanvolt re-gen sail drives.
@@bertmacdonald337 yep, and even so you need a fast boat and good wind to generate huge power as the relation between speed and electricity generation is not linear. At 6 knots you can generate few hundred watts, at 15 many KW.
Or at a smaller scale there are hydro generators that don't require a complete boat conversion, but afaik at best one of those hydro generators, Watt & Sea is an example, can produce 0.6 KW, that is any way more then enough, coupled with solar, to have all the energy you need to run your systems on a passage, but obviously not enough to run the air conditioner or heat your boat in cold areas.
There are bolt-on hydro generators such as the products from Watt & Sea. We would be happy to add these to the Balance as an option if desired. Cheers!
Hi Phil. Nice tech. Have you guys&gals ever looked into mg energy systems (netherlands)?. They have batteries with very high energy density and high C ratings. If I would get a boat, I'd get integrel with MG (2 integrels-each engine on a 1000A LV MG+ 6x7.2kw bateries LFP or HE) overkill? it would be lighter then the genset.
The only way your team could get better is with James Hamilton on board
I hope the world as we know it doesn't end in the coming years and crypto will explode in price. Then I will buy a brand new Balance with this system installed and sail to the end of the world..
Why not ditch the engine and just have a generator with an electric engine? Wouldn’t that be more efficient and easier to maintain?
Hi Peter, we have thoroughly discussed this topic in a previous video. The reality is that a hybrid setup is less efficient, overly complicated, and suffers from limited speed and range. It can be a good choice for a "weekend warrior" but we don't think it is practical for long distance cruising. Here is a link to the video: ua-cam.com/video/e0q98-JQPLk/v-deo.html
Again, we just keep going over and over this! I think it is best to look at why some cars are plug in hybrid and others all electric - and why some electrics have a small diesel engine (the BMW 3) as a range extender. And yes you can put on a diesel generator to run electrics and really must if you want any range. Our point is you are still burning fuel, and unless you get two generators you have redundancy. Again, weekend warrior, electric fine. Cruiser, either dual diesels or electrics with dual generators. But as I have said to exhaustion, you want electrics you can get them and have them and live with their negatives and positives like any other choice. We simply feel dual diesels, a lot of solar, Integrel alternators, lithium batteries, is the way to go. If battery storage got a whole lot better or solar was three times more efficient electric cats will start to have appeal for us. Not yet. Phil
I think people keep asking because it makes sense, and it’s what people want. Overall you end up with less weight, less maintenance, less noise, and regeneration capabilities. Seems like most yachts have a generators, and for good reason. And, all of this talk about being “more green” totally misses the point about the advantages of electric motors. People want electric to lower maintenance and increase reliability- no starter motors, transmissions, filters, impellers, head gaskets, and all the other crap that boat owners are maintaining. And you get regen while underway, when you need loads of power for auto-pilot and instruments. And if keeps your sail load steady when surfing down waves. And you get loads of torque to maneuver. Electric motors are about simplicity - there is enough maintenance to deal with. And who wants to sit in an anchorage with Diesel engines running to top off batteries?
Balance Catamarans Phil you need a ‘cut n paste’ reply.
But It’s a positive thing people exploring the elec options and it’s the nature of your game so get used to these queries and keep an open mind. Wasn’t long ago people said foiling mono hulls? Never.
Hi guys, actually SV Top Secret validates Phil's and Andrew's point. That for a cruising catamaran the technology is not there yet.
SV Top Secret is a highly refitted 58 ft Vovage catamaran, it has 38 solar panels generating 3800 watts and a very large li ion batterybank. This powers 4 Oceanvolt electric engines total of around 100 hp and according to the owner it could run at full power for 25 minutes before the batteries are depleted.
Recently the owner decided to replace 2 of the 4 electric engines with 2 diesel engines. So as for now it's not feasible to have a fully electric cruising yacht.
Phil and Andrew I admire your passion for creating in my opinion the best performance cruising catamaran.
Why isn't the word HYBRID ever mentioned? Genuine question. Replace diesel engines by low voltage generator to charge lithium batteries very efficiently. In most situations you will only use your electric motors for short times, i.e. in/out of marina or anchorage, or getting through tight spots. With performance cat like a balance you would get great regen from 10 knots of apparent wind. If you end up becalmed you then use the hybrid system to motor (not very fast) for as long as you need. Why isn't this technology being offered on a large scale? Sometimes I hear the answer that "what is the point of replacing diesel engines by a diesel gen", but it is not the same at all, You would use the gen a lot less than the diesel, saving on motors, maintenance, fuel, and pollution, and you get regen. What is not to like? Am I missing something?
no youre on the money. im with you there but you apparently need a large gen (12kw) to keep up with the energy needs if you were say motoring in 3 days of fog, i know this will be unusual but it scares people into dismissing the idea.all other times you would hardly start it up.
im doing a costing ( dollars, weights, pleasure) of full elec, hybrid and trad systems on a 52 cat at the mo. ocean volt is about 100k more than trad but still doing my homework.
@@simonhantler8062 How about one diesel and one electric with a good alternator to boot? Could be a bit awkward for manoeuvers, but you might get used to it...Could be a lot cheaper...
tonewreck1 that was my first post, one of each. As long as the thrust is equal I don’t see an issue. These integrels aren’t cheap, $13k approx but game changers sort of.....Although it’s still requires a deisel motor which everyone’s trying to get away from.
I saw your post afterwards...nothing is cheap....but it would maybe pay for itself in the end...? Still cheaper and lighter than a generator and less maintenance.
Wish that were so! Among our buyers are some of the most highly trained engineers in the world, and in the field of energy storage. If what you wanted was so great, trust me they would ask for it. Sadly, forgive me, I have overseen 900 cat sales as of last year and been through the evolution of the electrics, hybrid, etc. Some of the projects were just flat out failures, the others you just accept the higher cost and lower reliability and low range of electrics. And you are wrong on the issue of how often you would use a generator, and why really to be safe you need two of them. Keep doing your homework and if you are able to cut through the internet babble and talk to captains who have run electric cats you will find your way to the truth. By the way, we are happy to do an Ocean Volt cat, so long as you listen to us on the negatives and are happy to live with them. Ocean Volt is a good product, also Torquedo. They are fine for day sailors and island hoppers. We think they are less ideal for ocean crossers, but of course, you can cross on anything and if sitting around waiting for wind is ok with you, or motoring at very slow speeds, or running the generators almost constantly is somehow more appealing than running diesels engines (this I cannot grasp, but hey to each his own), then get an electric cat. In the end it is about your happiness. I just rely on my experience when advising customers on new or used cats and speak from that 45 years of experience. A performance cat is better off with twin diesels. Phil
Currently no electric vehicle is green. Until lithium batteries can be recycled in an environmentally friendly manner an ICE is far greener. Besides plants consume CO2, the more of it the faster they grow.
Magnetic generator perpetual motion can produce electricity, for ever