Spatial M4 Sapphire Open Baffle Speakers
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- If you've never heard a good open baffle speaker you don't know hat you're missing, says the Audiophiliac!
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I've owned the X3 Spatial Audio Lab OB speakers since May, 2021. This model has an AMT tweeter in a waveguide plus a powered subwoofer. I play mostly classical and some jazz/blues. This is an "end game" speaker for me. They do require a larger room than the M4. Mine are 5 feet from the front wall. Soundstage and depth is incredible. Instruments are clear and distinct and vocals are superb. Thank you for this review! Oh yeah, with all of Clayton's speakers, he uses very high quality components that do require lots of "burn-in".
Marcus DiBenedetto, have you tried yours in home theater setup? I am curious how the speakers perform playing porn soundtracks.
@@jamesdoranto9013, did you see the varitasim that says electricity does not travel through the wire??? :)
Beyma dual 12" woofers..? ✌
There are no unboxing videos of open baffle speakers because there are no boxes to begin with? Baffling!
Top comment. 👏👌🏽
Damn
Give the man some space, he needs air!!
I guess this is all baffle-gab?
A well deserved golf clap to you my good man.
Seriously enjoyed this episode. Reminded me of why I fell in love with your channel in the first place!
It's great to see your enthusiasm come through. Regardless of what your reviewing and when it shows through then I know it's a good product and not just another review. Listening to you talk about the Simon & Garfunkel brings back memories of when I first bought the album and enjoyed listening to it but to have your fond memories makes that much special.
whatever else is true, Steve is havin' fun out there
I own the M3's and yes once you go to open baffle you can't go back because you here the box even in same very expensive speakers
The Kyron Audio Gaia are the best speakers I’ve ever heard when I was at the Melbourne audio show many years ago. I think they look great also.
Incredible speakers , thanks for reminding me of them.
Love the 80s Memphis inspired shirt.
Enjoyed the descriptive commentary. Excellent job.
Many years ago I had the DALI Skyline 2000; big open baffle 12" woofer and 100cm or so ribbon tweeter (and like here, crossed low!). Now forgotten but, boy, they sounded great!
Seems like the description for this speaker design is backwards, ie the baffle isn't open, the rear box is 😎
Yes, open baffle can sound amazing. More picky in placement and need arround 2 m of space behind them in my experience. Got a pair of Audio Artistry with seperate bass.
I picked up a set of Spatial's M100 Uniwave Broadband Tweeters with Synthetic Sapphire diaphragm at Parts-Express, where they're known as Peerless Corundum tweeters. _kurundam_ (translates to ruby-sapphire)
They come in either a 1" or 1 1/4" dome. About $54 or $75 each, and a very fine design indeed. I just installed the 1" version in my Epos ES14's but crossed over high since the Epos woofer is actually designed to run full range. Very nice!
I'm guessing Spatial is using the larger version, which can go down a little lower (but 570Hz is still pushing the limit because that's fighting its resonate frequency.) I'd be interested to see what Spatial could do with a different set of woofers that could play higher and also not create the unfortunate 4ohm rating.
Steve, how would you compare these new speakers to the Magnapan LRS, the 1.7’s or the 3.7’s with or without a subwoofer?
this rabbit hole is deep yet elegant
I am not saying that the Spatial speaker is not very good, but I know the design has limitations. The speaker is only a dipole in the range of the woofers. The high frequency driver is still a monopole direct radiator with baffle diffraction effects that also contribute to boxy sound. I don't understand the purpose of the upper square corners other than somebody's preferred appearance, but I predict they also contribute to boxy sound. A full range dipole would eliminate baffle edge diffraction. A full range dipole with small dynamic drivers does not produce directional lobing effects like wide planar electrostatic speakers. Mounting two woofers push-pull lowers speaker distortion. The low 576Hz crossover crossover frequency is somewhere in the neighborhood of C#5 and D5 on the treble clef. C4, middle C, the division between musical bass and treble clefs, fundamental frequency is about 261.63Hz. Audiophiles and musicians have different ideas of bass and treble. With a second order crossover the crossover band where both low and high frequency speakers interfere is about two octaves from about 288Hz to 1152Hz, about D4 to D6 in the heart of the treble clef. You can count on any passive crossover for some loss of dynamics and detail, especially the passive low pass filter.
There are other dipole speakers like the Linkwitz Lab LX521.4.
I haven't heard it, but I would predict the Spatial M4 to sound better than most speakers, but the design has potential to sound better yet.
excelent, they look amazing.
I was at that concert too! At least I think it was Simon & Garfunkel. I was pretty far from the stage.
The M-4's I have look eggs ackley like the pair being reviewed. They have about 120 hours on them. Weakest link in the system is probably the small very dead 10' x 13' room. The rest of the components are: Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0 cd player (w/ an onboard pre-amp), a Coda 11 (100w pure class A) amp, mostly using wywires cables. Sound quality is very recording dependent and varies a lot. Looking for a turntable set up that will most of the time compete or outshine the Cantata, (recommendations would be much appreciated). I like these speakers a lot, but the design of the base and feet doesn't give the baffle rock solid stability. Some other speakers that have greater baffle stability seem to handle delicate details with a little more precision.
Do you find you only want to listen to audiophile or exceptional quality recordings? Get a very high quality phono stage and preamp along with a turntable system.. The phono stage and line preamp would matter a lot, so sink some $ in that too..
Hi Rick, fortunately not always, quite a few live recordings and ones that are not particularly polished have offered up a lot of information that was new to me. Recordings from Can, Guru Guru, Acme Rocket Quartet, Miles Davis, Tortoise, Lard Free and Hendrix have been sounding great. I have an analog front end w/ an msrp that's bigger than my cd player...maybe there are a few set up issues that need some work. There are definitely more than enough fantastic sounding (and musically interesting) cds out there to keep me broke. It's also nice to hear new things on the stuff that's already here.
I have OB Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" concentric mid-bass + 1" polyester tweeter) driven w=by LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp. Most people leave the XOs on the speaker base, but they vibrate like crazy. Assuming Spatial's XOs are removable, get longer jumpers and get them off the bases. HUGE improvement with my 3.4s
Clayton Shaw, the man behind Spatial Audio, also had Emerald Physics.
@@blnokc6793 I THINK he owned it and sold to Underwood
I had the speaker and you should open up the baffle and look at the ridiculous crossover what a mess it's like spaghetti and glue everywhere.
@@jasonmelo9379 ??? What speaker are you referring to? The 3.4s are open baffle
@@roberthart9886 sorry I meant to cs2.3. they had baffles sandwiched together with the crossover in between
Where can I travel to listen to few of the options out there in great looking speakers with wood look to make a decision? 8k-12k speakers
Thanks for great info videos.
Been aware of the Spatials from a couple years back (Ron from New Record Day also big fan of them). As an open baffle virgin, I may be ready to be deflowered. 😄
I've wondered about a design that used a V shaped de/reflector on the back of an open baffle design. If it COULD (?) relieve that distance factor concerning the amount of air required BEHIND the unit, I might have considered them. I went with Ohms. They fit both the room and my interest in true surround sound.
Thank you Steve, I really do enjoy your videos. Nerdy as hell but I’m the demographic. haha Carry on.
Hello from sunny and beautiful Costa Rica… Steve, I’m in the process of replacing my old system (Revel Concerta speakers paired with Lexicon RV-8 integrated amp.), and would like your input with regards to two of your current speakers reviews: Spatial Audio (M3 or X5) and Tekton (Double Impact or 2-10 Perfect Set). For the amp., I’m interested in the Hegel h-390 or the Luxman L-507UXII). My room is roughly 16X 28 ft. (448 ft2). Would appreciate your feedback and recommendations, thanks in advance!!!
Most good guitar amps are open back🎸🇨🇦
? The Klipsch is your reference speaker ?
No, it is the pure audio project duet 15
I have a pair of the X5s and love them. You can hear sound demos on my channel.
Has anyone compared Pure Audio Project to Spatial Audio since they both make open baffle speakers ?
Steve you are the Man !! APPRICATE you Steve ! You ever come to Kentucky !!
You need to stop by place !
Everything is just an elaborate disguise with me channel 😆😆
Tee Jay!
Would the Outlaw RR2160 receiver be a able to drive these and take advantage of their qualities?
For the money, yes that would be a great option
Lmao, if you put 20,000 worth of audio hardware in front of these speakers, they sound wonderful! Gee, what 4,250.00 speaker system wouldn't?!?
Totally hate those video where people just talk talk and talk and talk about how wonderful and amazing speaker sounds without even hearing it for 10 seconds.
👏👏👏
$4250.00 LOL
I do not want to hear these. I would likely love the sound but I refuse to spend $4K on speakers. Maggie 1.7's are half this price and sound lovely.
Sounds as if it could be too revealing for a lot of the poorly recorded music I listen to
Yeah, probably
Lol, virgins, the heading is so ridiculous I had to click and see what's going on.
Once you go Open Baffle, it is very hard to go back.....Yes, you need to have room for them, yes, they can be very detailed and revealing, and yes, you need good sources, but MAN, when it all comes together, it is jaw dropping.
seems like the M3 would be a better challenge to the Cornwall 4's. throw in the x4 or x5 against the Cornwall 4's you'll see an incredible top end resolution and transparency. Great review... only downside is the increase in wait time on my order now that there will be new spatial audio fans!
Steve, your openness to different designs is a joy. Audio innovation is boundless and you continue to surf the wave.
wow. not long ago (2 years) the price was $4250 for this model. and now it's gone. they only have 2 Models. one is close to 10 K (for the X4) and the other one is 12K (for the Q3) . both look really nice and very expensive.
why did they stop making the M4 model ???. it looks great too, and the price is more realistic..
Nice one Steve! My spatials ended my speaker swapping journey. Never once considered another speaker since I purchased them.
Years ago, I walked into HiFi Hutch in Lombard, IL. I had been in there a few times. They had some good gear, but this time it was different: They had the Carver Amazing, open baffle speakers with 4, 12" woofers per side and a ribbon tweeter about 6 feet high. Talk about a slack-jaw moment! I was SHOCKED!! It was one of those very memorable audio experiences. 🧡
I have the X5's. They are smaller than the X3 but still require a large room. The M serries are better for smaller rooms. You should be advised that Spatial Audio lab has some new models. They also don't have pre-built sppeakers. Plan on at least a 2 month wait. One thing that is not mentioned is that these speakers look like a piece of art rather than just a box.
Such cool looking speakers, I imagine they are just a bit too insensitive for something like the Decware zen triode? I also want to thank you for the great music reviews, you’re always turning me on to cool records outside of my “bubble”.
Spatial also has the X-series that is a bit more sensitive closer to 93dB
I think they might be okay if you listen at sane levels and your room isn’t huge. I built the Decware ZKIT2 as monoblocks and measured them right at 2 watts per channel. My speakers are small two ways which were patterned after the original Wilson Watt speakers. They’re rated at 89 db and I have more than enough power. I use a preamp and never get past 12:00 o’clock on the volume.
Very nice. But one should consider the open baffle speakers of Steve Deckart as a potential cheaper alternative.
I always enjoy your videos Steve. Easy to listen to and understand. With all of these younger reviewers (padawans) coming to UA-cam, you will always be Yoda. 😎
hey steve. interesting you are reviewing these. i have .7 maggies with a rel t/7i and was considering purchasing a pair of spatial audio speakers. any thoughts on the sound differences between the .7s and the m4s? thx.
Look at their web site, it appears they have changed the tweeters and the prices went way up, north of 7K for entry now.
In 1982 I heard open baffle and also magnepan speakers fell in love with the sound of both as all I could hear with "normal" speakers was the box. My experience is that this type of speakers is that they need at least 6feet rear clearance but as you say they can be near side walls. They really need/like class A amps but are easier to drive than maggies
Very many years ago I was given Altec voice of the theater speakers and a tube Mac they were a baffle with 2 -15 inch woofers and a big horn tweeter. The crossover mounted on the side looked like a small car battery. This was in the 1960's but I loved them this was my first hi-fi system. I now only have a Yamaha stereo receiver with Elac debut speakers but still love music just the same.
Hi Steve, thank you for another great review. I love my combination of the small tube amp Unison Research Simply Italy with the open baffle speakers Pure Audio Project Trio15. Maybe the Spatials also would love tubes.
I have the bigger version of the M4, the M3 Sapphire. My listening experience is very similar to your observations of the M4 sound presentation. After cycling through box speakers (floorstanders as well as bookshelf + subs) and a pair of Magnepans, I have found a speaker that does everything in my room well. Very dynamic (more so than you suggest but then, you are comparing to Klipsch) and easily driven by high quality low power amps (I use a Pass Labs XA30.5 Class A amp). Thanks for highlighting this small but great Made in America speaker company.
Why, why must you guys spend my money!? Have you little heart?! All jokes aside I’ve been lusting over the speaker for the last year and a half since I’ve seen it on new record day. I do have a question though, my listening room is only 11ft x 14ft, do you think that might be too small for the speakers?
@@djparra41 I asked Clayton Shaw at Spatial about my 13X20 room and he recommended the M3s. BUT, the M4 didn’t exist at the time. Call him and ask the question. I bet he would say go with the M4. I will point out that if a room is less than ideal (including a bit on the small side), open baffle speakers may work when some box speakers won’t because of the way they handle bass. That was my experience.
@@Unpreeeedictable Thank you very much sir I really appreciate the reply! And I will be giving him a call after all of this holiday spending has elapsed 😫😂
@@djparra41 My room is 12ft. x 16ft. I find that's just big enough for my M3 Sapphires. I have them halfway into the room --8 ft out from the short wall. I think the M4's or M'6's might be a better fit for 12 x 14 room. Just my opinion.
It is counter-intuitive for most audiophiles that reducing or eliminating listening room reflections, especially side wall reflections to the left of the left speaker and to the right of the right speaker, actually improves the stereophonic sound stage. I insist that listening rooms should be treated to create a Reflection Free Zone (RFZ) around the listener. There is no point to audiophile grade speaker wire if listening rooms are not properly treated or speaker directionality is not controlled to correct the much more profound effect of listening room reflections.
Stereophony is not magic. Listeners have left and right ears, but listeners do not hear stereophonically. The stereophonic spatial effect is an illusion created at the listener's ears, not between the speakers or in the listening room. The stereophonic spatial effect is artificial stereo channel level and time differences created by microphone directionality, orientation, spacing, and perspectives and microphone mixing console level controls rendered by natural auditory spatial cues that locate left and right spaced speakers for listeners equal distance between left and right speakers. Microphone directionality, orientation, spacing, and perspectives do not replicate realistic left and right ear perspectives. Close monophonic microphone perspectives do not replicate realistic left and right ear perspectives. The stereophonic spatial effect does not replicate a sound field. The stereophonic spatial effect does not replicate natural auditory spatial cues Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF), Interaural Level Difference (ILD), or Interaural Time Difference (ITD) at the listener's ears. The stereophonic spatial effect cannot transport the listener into the music venue environment nor transport a realistic sound of singers or musical instruments into the listening room. Speaker directionality does not replicate the directionality of singers and musical instruments. Earlier listening room reflections precede the later music venue environment reflections in the recording. Earlier listening room reflections are heard from all directions while later music venue environment reflections are heard from the directions of the speakers. The stereophonic spatial effect is compressed by natural auditory spatial cues of the speakers into the horizontal space between left and right spaced speakers. No stereo channel level or time differences can create a phantom stereophonic illusion heard from a direction to the left of the left speaker or to the right of the right speaker or behind the listener. Listener's ears are left and right. No realistic stereophonic illusion can be heard from directions on the side between front and back speakers or between vertical up and down speakers. Quadraphonic and surround sound systems are layered front and back left-right stereophonic systems.
The artificial stereophonic spatial effect is an artistic expression like impressionist painting, not a captured image of reality like stereoscopic photography or three-dimensional video. The speakers are the canvas on which the artist paints.
I'm working on DIYing a set of open baffles right now, just waiting on parts to show up. Super excited to hear them once I finish
How is that working for you, would be very interested.
A friend of mine had open baffle Forsman speakers. They sounded great to me. He had them for many years, but he said that they were very demanding especially regarding placement. And he didn't have the best of space for them. So he recently sold them and bought a pair of Spendor D7. Haven't heard the latter yet, but his praise for them makes me think they are amazing.
The D7’s are magnificent speakers. One of the most balanced speakers in their entire line up.
Dq-10s all day.. never heard anything better and don't want to.
Steve,
I know you were wowed a year or so with the PureAudio Project Trio15 Speaker System. Can you offer up some comments comparing the two as they are both open baffle designs. Thanks and keep the great videos coming! JM
Thanks for watching Joe! They are both very very open and spacious. Great sound stage depth. The pure audio project was a much larger and more expensive speaker, it was more refined than this one today. Even better bass than this one.
So glad to see Spatial Audio being reviewed! I have the X2's after working up from the M3 TriodeM and I can say I am a convert. I was a huge Apogee fan since mid-90's and these are the only speakers I have heard that have that magical soundstage, scale and imaging akin to planers with more efficiency and less of a sweet spot. If you set them up right, they indeed "play the room", creating a huge, open soundstage. I find them very involving. Great review-thanks!
@@keplermission4947 I am using a Pathos Logos integrated. 110W/ch, hybrid tube preamp stage, solid state amp. Very pleased with the sound.
@@keplermission4947 Thanks for the info. I have the original version of the amp, MK1. Lots of reviews out there-Postivie Feedback, Absolute Sound, etc. More akin to my experience with it. I rarely buy new so those retail price points are less relevant to me, thankfully!
ALL CAR SPEAKER 🔊 ARE OPEN BAFFLE SPEAKER SYSTEM,,,EXCEPT SUBWOOFER,,BANDPASS,,😅😅😅😅😅
Audiophiliac sounds like there’s something wrong with your blood cells
Would love to see more reviews of open baffles. I’ve been living with the Lii F15’s in Decware’s open baffle design for a while now and they are nice, to say the least.
Nice review Steve. Wondering about similarities\differences between these speakers and Magnepans?
I was just going to ask the same question: how do they compare to the Maggies?
They are more dynamic than the Magnepan speakers. I have the X5s which uses an AMT tweeter and active subwoofer. Spatial Audio’s detail retrieval is unreal!
Wondering the same. If I have any complaint of my .7i is lack of visceral impact. But nothing 1 (or 2) subwoofers won’t cure and still come in under the M4’s $4K price tag.
Well magnapans are line source speakers. Also they are full dipoles.
Similar to Siegfried Linkwitz Orion.
If I was Steve Guttenberg, I would be seriously embarrassed. How can you be this long in audio and still be totally clueless about room interaction. Basically you just realized, for the first time in your ignorant audio journey that room interaction matters and if you minimize it, then many aspects of the music will not be lost in effectively random room interactions. That is all you have done. You have greatly reduced room interaction. That is what open baffle speakers do. Unfortunately the create some other issues, but that is their primary advantage.
3.5 minutes in. Let's get to the sound. VIEWERS watching this clip know what an OB speaker is. This is not the
Gene dellasala channel
Let's get that right Steve .
& a good day to you Sir
Duder:::: You shouldn't run this out of date stuff. The main Man has moved on. And this Speaker is finnished. Pull the plug. It puts you in a bad light. You should no better. Running old out of date horse meat
I just unsubscribed.. dont talk about speakers if u can't ay them to us..crap show man.
Planars, as well as "open baffle" speakers are difficult to Explain with conventional thinking about wave cancellations.
I'm a little disappointed that two 12" woofers only go down to 40 Hz. Is reduced bass response an inherent problem with open baffle speakers?
Absolutely. The low freq pressure wave wraps around the baffle and cancels itself out. You need a wider baffle to get it to go lower, but it will always be an issue with open baffles.
I have older Spatial M3 Hologram, great speakers!
Wow..Levin, New Zealand! That must be a first.
FOR THAT KIND OF PRICE IT'S REALLY TRULY SAD , FOLKS ARE WAY WAY TO GREEDY NOW DAYS.
lol the profit margin on this has got to be like 90%, steep price to pay for being a hipster.
Ive tried to love OB designs, and have had some emerald physics, and made 4 sets, im just not a fan, hace a nice snappy realistic kick drum and fast, but they have no "slam", you wont really hear the bass, mainly will just feel it, its just not for me at the present time, it grew boring and couldnt due certain genres well, their picky, just my take from previous experience.
So, what about the sound of these open baffle dynamic compared to Magnepans?
So my whole life I've been told it's the box that makes the bass, if you put a woofer out of the box you'll have no bass, how come all of a sudden you don't need a box? Can I cut the sides and back off my speakers?
Thanks for watching, you need a box to make bass with small drivers. We have two 12 inch drivers like the speaker does, and those drivers were designed to be used in an open baffle configuration, then don't need a box.
Glad to see you review these! I have the Spatial Audio m3 triode masters. I love my speakers, when I upgrade I will definitely stay with spatial! I have been fascinated with open baffle for a few years now! Hard to go back to box speakers!
So you finally decided to review Spatial, thanks.
With that low crossover point, mostly it creates a lot distortion from the tweeter and the Baffle size auround the tweeter, i think it is too large. You get a lot reflections from the panel, leading to combfilter effects .
Check out the New Record Day channel. He has tested these type of speakers extensively. They do not display any measurable comb/filter acoustic effects. I suggest that you listen to a pair then comment further.
@@anthonyhopkin I think you mean the Video from 30.9.2020, it is very choppy
@@cbts001a4 yes and this is due to intermodulation distortion. I'm sure the reflection phasing doesn't help either.
But u don't show it and play it? Sad man.
I still have my Carver Amazings from 1988. Just can’t part with them even though I’ve moved on to boxes. They would throw an incredibly wide sound stage, although not an entirely accurate one. People would listen to them and swear they weren’t on and that the music must have been coming from some hidden speakers.
Do they have the gold or silver ribbons?
I live close to Levin...
Hey Steve, m4's vs. LRS+???
Wonder this compare to Jamo open baffel speaker for many years ago.20 years ago?
For that kind of money I prefer to go for Magnepan MG-3.7i
3.7 I is at least 50% more expensive. But I agree, the Maggie has a lot going for it.
Curious how you would compare the Spatial M4s to your Magnapan .7s, or other Maggies you have owned.
Both great speakers. However the Spatial's do not require a High Current Amp. Also, the Spatial play much better at lower volumes and have better dynamics.
Great review, I would just add they work great in a small rooms and sound better in my opinion with tubes.
I agree 100%
These speakers look very much like my Jamo R909 open baffle design...??
I've been doing open baffle in DIY since the mid 90's. I could never go back to any box speaker for critical listening, they just can't compete with a well designed open baffle system.
576 Hz is really more like lower midrange, not upper.
Yeah and how does a tweeter go down that low I've never seen it. I've been designing speakers for decades.
So Steve, how do these compare to the Pure Audio Project speakers that you reviewed in the past?
The PAPs were much larger, with two 15 woofers and sell for $10k plus. As I recall they were much bigger sounding speakers!! I don’t know how other reviewer’s do comparisons of products they heard years ago with the current subject of a review.
Open baffles gives a false clearness and cleanliness even with a grand room, its is very far from a natural hearing experience for it is sort of trying to make dirty water into fine wine. Music is, if you so wish, dirty water and needs irregular dynamics especially in, what most of us have, regular space and rooms. In this way audiophiles makes themselves into purists looking for perfection in a life that builds on imperfections, its becomes a sad road to walk; straight and clean and with nothing but artificial art on the brightly lit walls along the roadside.
I love the way you express yourself, but I have no idea what you just said.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac😂
The question here is if the tweeter which is not open back is crossed so low then where's the benefit of open back midrange that is quite apparently in other open back design's , then only thing here is you get rid of the cabinet resonance and make the bass & lower mid more open !! WHY cross the tweeter so low !!
So do you have them yourself? Just curious..
No. They haven’t shown up in any of my videos since then! I am very rarely buy products I give rave reviews to
What an excellent review, Thank you.
They’re $5k now. They began at $1500!
I own a Jamo R909... can't compare as I don't own this, but the R909 looks and design is leagues above this. But so is the price.
It’s the explaining computers guy but for audio lol
Ridthaler type dipoles achieve -6dB@16Hz. They sound amazing with open-baffle wide-range drivers for mid-/high range. 😉