MG11: The Magnificent Swiss Maxim Gun
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- Опубліковано 18 кві 2024
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The Swiss were one of the first countries to test Hiram Maxim’s new automatic machine gun in 1887, and they found it far superior to their just-recently-purchased Gardner guns. The first Swiss maxims were delivered in 1889, and the country came back three more times for newer models. The MG94 was the first major adoption, followed by the MG00 for cavalry. Finally, after the Maxim patents expired and DWM introduced their improved 1909 commercial pattern, the Swiss adopted it as the MG11. The first 167 MG11s were produced by DWM, but deliveries ceased in 1915 because of the war. This prompted the Swiss National Assembly to order the government arsenal W.F. Bern to begin production, and between 1915 and 1946 the Swiss made 10,269 more MG11s domestically. They were absolutely beautifully made weapons.
In 1934/35, a modernization program made a number of improvements to the guns. The booster was simplified, the trigger was made one-hand friendly (so the second hand could be used to adjust aim while firing), a bracket for antiaircraft sights was added, and traverse and elevation stops were added to the tripods. Most significantly, the cloth belt was replaced by a fully metal belt. That belt is widely regarded as the best Maxim belt ever produced, and it is particularly valuable to shooters today, as it will function with essentially any caliber in any model of Maxim.
Swiss Maxims were never exported in quantity, and they are quite rare today.
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"European nations began happily and enthusiastically purchasing Maxims." - yeah that's one way to put it.
Yep, or you could just go with Maxim's own quote...
Either way these are weapons of a type that the Europeans had not fully appreciated the devastation they would reek on the field of battle. They got a modern and dependable "bullet hose", but stayed with tactics that intentionally exposed their soldiers to it's direct... consequences.
@@williestyle35 And even earlier...when deployed in colonial brushfire wars...as Hilare Belloc said lol "He stood upon a little mound, Cast his lethargic eyes around, and said beneath his breath: "Whatever happens we have got The Maxim Gun, and they have not"
@@trooperdgb9722 yes, indeed. A memorable quote for sure.
Well, you have to give it to us Americans… come up with most of the individual elements that changed the face of warfare, and is it’s staple to this very day. We never really stop trying to find a better mousetrap, so to speak, when it comes to turning living beings into composting scattered remnants. I myself only recently found out there were fairly extensive landmine warfare in the American civil war, even in Texas!…. ( I knew about sea mines and harbor devices, and the first torpedoes mounted on a spar)Barbed wire, submarines, aeroplanes, machine guns…. The list of deadly party favors goes on and on.
FYI this gun is paperless in Switzerland as only man-portable guns are regulated. That means buying one is the same as buying a soda... a very expensive soda, that needs water cooling
Time for dual citizenship
So one could make a non-man-portable MG42?
Switzerland now deserves 1st place for the "Greatest Nation on Earth" award right now.
Does this count for artillery also?
@@DudeInWalmart Maybe? I talked to a Swiss citizen years ago and he said that owning artillery was known, but uncommon. I didn't think to ask him about the laws.
Looking forward to when Ian takes this on Backup Gun Day.
It qualifies because he has to back up a vehicle to the firing line to bring the gun up
Just as the founding fathers intended
Want to see Ian on the range with it.
Ha, ha, ha!😉😉😉
It backs up a whole battalion!
A thing I really miss from my time in the army was "clicky snappy" sounds of assembling and disassembling gear. Nothing better than a positive click lol. You assembling that tripod got me all sweaty in the derps.
💀
There's lots of clicking going on in the military for sure, all that's going through my head as I read that was disassemble, reassemble, disassemble, reassemble, ECT
Wuh 💀
The sound of a company of men cleaning M14s on a crisp fall day....
Positive feedback is sexy, it’s true.
I’m surprised the Swiss got rid of them. You don’t need to run around with a GPMG when you’re just holding a bunker in the mountains hosing down the mountain passes with a range card refined over 100 years.
My bet is that most are carefully packed away is 'reserve' stockpiles just in case.
Safe bet.
Warfare has slightly changed. With high precision, bunker penetrating bombs those exposed bunkers are not viable anymore. In addition, the mountain passes are not that important anymore, as cargo via air is much more efficient than when the bunkers were built. Lastly, while those are good guns, the newer replacements can fulfill the same role but are much cheaper in production and maintenance.
I can't see the Swiss ever being invaded.
@@thorodin2367 Your first point has some validity. High precision bunker busting bombs can make short work of small bunkers. But they're generally too expensive and too precious to waste on a platoon level asset. They're mostly for HQs buried deep in the earth.
I totally disagree with your second point. Mountain passes are still the main routes into and out of Switzerland. Cargo planes are expensive, have limited capacity, and are vulnerably. Especially flying over the mountains where they can be hit with, ironically, machine guns in bunkers. (Though MANPADs are better still). The idea of invading and sustaining an invasion with cargo planes alone is laughable.
The third point isn't terribly valid. Maxim machine guns are known for their incredible robustness. They're still using Maxim guns in the Ukraine war. There's little doubt they'd be just as mechanically capable today as they would be in 1914. Modern GPMGs are purposely under built so the factories can pump more of them out quicker, with attrition rates built in. They do and will wear out quicker than the old Maxims. Also, GPMPs are built with the intent to provide mobile machine gun fire for offense and an active defense. They're in fact ideal for a nation _attacking_ Switzerland. And they're definitely useful for the Swiss Army so they can mount rapid counter attacks, leaving the heaver Maxims in the bunkers.
"The devil's paint brush"... what an awesome title for a book on a person who developed machine guns.
Agree, what a striking nickname for the machine gun!
It turned out to be a truth of a type the Europeans themselves had not fully appreciated when they started arming their forces with the mighty Maxim gun!
9:44 "It's not very Swiss because it's not that complicated." 😂 Thanks Ian!
a black powder maxim must have been a hell of a sight, just a massive cloud of smoke
Shooting the gun must have been like chain smoking an entire carton or two of cigarettes in a minute.
I had a thought about that, it might have been "practice" for those to be fired by someone taking directions from a spotter further away position using a telescope, that way it could fire continuously into the cloud of smoke, but if the spotter can see where the bullets land they can give firing directions.
“Hans! We need a smoke screen!”
Hans: “Wait no more…”
Brrrrrrrrt
@@gawkthimm6030 Early machine guns were most definitely considered and used like artillery. It was the only thing they had to compare it to as a crew served weapon.
Also i'm not so sure there was a sight of anything when a black powder maxim is firing lol.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_gun#/media/File:HiramMaxim_MaximGun.gif
I could watch a full hour of Forgotten Weapons ASMR where Ian just sets up guns like this.
I just love the old Maxim guns. The water jacket around the barrel makes the gun so beautiful to look at.
You've probably seen it but (for those who havent) search this channel for "Argentine Brass Maxim" for another hit of what you describe.
Just looked up the results of this auction. Sold for $48,000 which does actually seem like a very good value for such a nice piece.
This auction doesn't happen until May 8. The one you saw was from 5 years ago; an example with ALL the accessories.
@@ForgottenWeaponsso this one will be similar because of inflation
@@shable1436 You never know. Sometimes there isn't much interest and other times you get a few rich guys bidding against each other. It will be interesting to watch.
@@jfess1911the question is: is it a pre ban exempt full speed machine gun? Full auto is banned because of reasons? Fine fine, let me grab my Maxim real quick.
@@vincentvdh9 You are right that there are a lot of things that can affect the price for machineguns. These days, I think most would consider this a collector's item/ piece of art. I am old enough, though, to remember times of relatively inexpensive surplus ammo, when this might have been considered a fancy range toy.
I think Ian has discussed the change in the market as surplus ammo began to dry up and the relative attractiveness and price of belt-feds dropped as opposed to magazine-fed.
Just looking at it you can see the quality of craftsmanship that went into this MG. Thanks for the review of it. 👍👍👍👍
Just like a Swiss watch. The quality is obvious!
Saw a Brit demonstration video with a .303 Vickers, where the gunners knew how to get the bezt use of the tripod; locked down tbe windage and elevation to about 12 incbes above the ground on an oak tree roughly 15 inches across, and proceeded to chop said tree DOWN. IIRC, it took 2 - 3 1/2 belts to "git'er done"....surprisingly clean-cut, too! Start on the edge, 3 rounds, bump it, 4xrounds, bump, 7, bump, etcetera, across the trunk. It. Was. AWESOME!
The Swiss have the most beautiful guns. Great tripod...surprised they didn't include a clock in it. 🤩🤑
That would have been cuckoo...oh wait....
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk cuckoo clocks are german, not swiss.
"Good heavens, look at the time!" *creates a no-mans-land
If the barrel is elevated to the correct position in relation to the horizon, it can be used as a sundial.
@@CsDeathshadow while the original cukoo clocks are indeed German, the "chalet" cuckoo which most refeer to when talking about cuckos is a Swiss style
What boys see when putting a camera on a tripod
Totally!!!
🤦🏼♂️
What a nice example, that spare lock stored in the tri pod just knocked me out ! And I was impressed with how easy Ian fit the A lock in the gun ! Bravo 👏 👏 👏.
Also, a fine machine is easy to work with. Both ways impressive.
Never expected a Forgotten Weapons episode to start with ASMR. A surprise, but a welcome one really
Forgotten Weapons, C&Rsenal etc should have an ASMR stream where they dis/re-assemble old guns.
I wouldn't mind assembly and disassembly/ maintenance vids done in asmr from Ian that would be awesome.
@@948320z absolutely that would be amazing especially if Mae got involved.
But... It's all asmr
I love the way that the Swiss gentleman tells Mr Maxim about his target a 1200 meters while doing a impersonation of Sean Connery!
The 6,5x55 developed by Norway (and Sweden) was also made to be effective against horses, and have the capability to be used in company or batallion fire against targets 1k away.
People know the names Einstein and Edison, but it's really a shame that Hiram Maxim is virtually unknown. The guy was really a genius.
I loved that we got to see the set up as the beginning of the video instead of the gun already setup
Setting up the tripod and the MG itself just feels so cinematic.
Ian you demonstrate, with knowledge, history, and the physical "Hands On" functionality, and developmental evolution of all the weapons you cover, very professional and straight forward. A pleasure to follow, understand what you are conveying is a 10, Thanks.
Great Video, I have seen them in Swiss fortifications.
Just to add to the information about the markings on the MG, the metal plaque on the back of the tripod mentions the distance of friendly soldiers on the left and on the right the corresponding setting of the rear sight as to safely shoot above them.
Great video as always! Just for future use, "Bern" (from Waffenfabrik Bern) is actually pronounced more like "bearn" like a bear, or "bear" with me, or bare-handed, not "burn".
A long time ago (1980's) I was inspecting a factory and saw a small machine weaving cloth belts complete with cartridge loops for Maxim MG's. I suppose there are forces somewhere still using these guns. They worked well and still do.
The man I was with said that they still sell all they can make.
Maxim variants are in use in Ukraine right now, complete with heretical attachments like red dot sights.
@@ArchOfficial RED dot sights. There is a tasteless joke somewhere with that punchline.
What a treat! Thanks. Spent the last half of the 1980's in Switzerland, and everyone's workmanship was superb. No surprise about the MG being superb.
Swiss engineering at its finest
Seems like a good option for home defense.
That's not a machine gun, that's an artillery piece disguised as a machine gun!
That is pretty much how they were viewed in WWI.
If you read the book by McBride called "The Emma Gees" that's how they used them because they didn't know how to really use them in WWI.
@jfess1911 well it is a 100 lbs lol
@@brettnelson6710 Yup. Kinda difficult for concealed carry.
As commented - that is how they were viewed at the earliest stages of WWI - "light artillery". It would not take long for the Imperial German military, the British Army, and others to quickly figure out that if you spread "heavy machine guns" in units across a front line, very bad things happened to unsupported forces attacking in the open (as was a common battlefield tactic in the beginning).
That range table is actually very interesting, since it is made to shoot over the heads of your own troops. The left side says "Distance to troops shot over", whereas the right side says "safety sight setting"; thus making sure you're shooting far enough above the heads of your own guys so as not to endanger them.
I thank the Lord
That Ian has got
A Maxim gun
But I have not.
The money in your bank account gives a sigh of relief.😮💨
You should have one. Why not ?
The sounds the tripod makes when errected is pure asmr..
Your WW1-ish era machine gun videos are some of my favourites. Glad to see a new one and Swiss no less!
Thank you as always for showing us the reticles in all the various optics you cover, that sort of thing can be hard if not impossible to find anywhere else. :)
Thank you Ian for showing us this piece of history.
This truly was magnificent. I feel like it's almost a return to the early days of Forgotten Weapons (without that cool intro music). Great work as always.
Seeing Ian sitting on the floor next to this mighty Swiss made Maxim machine gun did remind me a lot of some of his much earlier videos.
Excellent video, Ian. I love Maxim guns.
That Tripod must be considered the epitome of "Swiss-ness"! LOL. Having the spare lock in there was amazing!
Thank-you Ian, another super-informative video.
... I love that optic. What a magnificent, regal, 1900s tacti-cool optic
7:20 the "one handed" firing was definitely something the Swiss would add as an "improvement". While their main forces might be well dug in to bunkers and the like, with good support and supplies - the Swiss did have some limitations on the manpower side. While most adult males were technically "reserves", they were not an unlimited force that could fill every role. Having a "heavy" machine gun that could be serviced by 3 to 4 soldiers, instead of the better part of a squad was an important consideration for the Swiss. Thank you for this lovely video Ian, it reminds me of your other coverage on similar not so "forgotten" weapons from years back (especially the Mg 08 and other "heavy" machine guns).
i do really love the way, how Ian sitting like that with his legs crossed and visible agitation near some vintage obscure piece of military history.
You could probably set your watch by the cyclic rate.
Probably the only Maxim that doesn't vary it's fire rate when it heats up.
It would probably be just as accurate as a shitty Swiss watch to
Thank you so much Ian
Bless you man
Fantastic quality machinework.
I love the Swiss so much.
The 'range table' at 12:36 is something else. It has two parallel marks and tells the shooter what minimum elevation to use (right column: 'Sicherheitsvisier' = safety sight) when overshooting own troops (distance in left column: 'überschossene Truppe') during peacetime training. Generally it's about 600m added elevation but this grows exponentially when your guys are getting nearer to the gun. At 100m distance to your friends the safety sight to be used is 2000m elevation! The Swiss are well known to overshoot own troops regularly during training, that's one reason why they didn't adopt the MG 42 but made their own over-engineered version with the MG 51.
Babe wake up Ian dropped another video…
Really cool episode! Fascinating history!
God bless all here.
Great channel and a story told by a person who has actually read books about it. Thank you.
That is a beautiful Maxim. Even the tripod is lovely. Not a single thing was overlooked in developing the platform.
I'm in Australia, so there's no chance of buying one of these unless it's deactivated (which would be heresy). I've seen and handled a few Vickers machine guns at dealers and gunsmiths. The Maxim and Vickers are simply gorgeous. I'd love one.
Beautiful
I'm always in awe of how Ian presents and shows/demonstrates weapons, I never get tired of watching.......but that poor laminate flooring took a real good hammering from the tripod mount lol, still, excellent review 👍😁
The starting part of this video brought me out in sweats....setting up that tripod. During my time at breacon, i had the pleasure of being told to carry the GPMG tripod....i hated that thing more than my ex.....
The MG11's history and evolution showcased brilliantly. The modernization upgrades in 1934/35 truly elevated its performance.
Swiss kit always looks pristine. Never seen the ''mud, the blood or the beer'' I guess.
Now imagine running a pk machine gun with a Swiss mg11 belt, in theory it should work since it's a maxim belt
My dad use this one when he was in the Swiss army
Did anybody else hear the Transformers sound-effect in their heads when Ian was setting up the tripod?
Nice overview of a great piece of hardware..1911 was quite a year for Swiss ordnance.
The MG-11 as depicted here, the G-11 and K-11 rifle and "carbine" and the thing that was the real magic; the GP-11 cartridge, with its super-slinky bullet.
Genuine GP-11 ammo is impossible to find in shooting quantities and at a sane price, here in the penal colonies, but those of us eccentric K-11and K-31 drivers, "improvise and overcome". with creative hand-loading.
Maybe you could break out the Alpenhorns and Treicheln (cow-bells) and arrange a "Swiss" day on the range with an array of handguns, SMGs, rifles and MGs. The ZfK 55 "sniper" rig is quite a piece of engineering and its FG42-esque muzzle device is a revelation.
Does anyone know if any maxims of this version were used in combat? I would be interested to see how the system holds up in those conditions if there are any reports. By all appearances, this seems incredibly precise and well thought out!
Wow that is magnificent.
The 1900's DI would instruct the firing line to "hang the lock", as Ian demonstrated.
[it's not a bolt]
Next DI command was to "drop your lock, load the ammo belt".
LOCK AND LOAD
I love this quick adjustable elevation mechanism reminds me a lot of my gearhead for my camera's tripod. I always found this very neat and thought why weapon tripods didnt use something like this.. well... i was corrected, and it even was my country that did this :D
Beautiful weapon.
The traverse slide takes the place of the wooden sticks which a Vickers gunner would put in the ground to mark his arcs out.
This example appears to be a beautifully preserved specimen.
Thanks to the previous owner/s for maintaining this important piece of history!
😁😁😁😁😁
Loved the almost ASMR style intro!
The spare lock box is amazingly Swiss.
Thank goodness someone on the design team resisted the urge to put a finely crafted lock on it.
Ian’s next Two Gun event is going to be awesome.
I want two of these, please.
When I visited the Swiss Guard museum at the Holy See years back I saw a pic of the Swiss Guard in WWII using a gun that looked very close to this.
Did you know that a selection of forgotten weapons videos are available on prime TV? Neither did i until I stumbled across them the other day!
Absolutely beautiful piece of overbuilt early 1900s engineering
As the owner of a K31, which uses the same 7.5x55mm Swiss ammo, I can attest to how much of a pain getting it is here in the states. Gone are the days of $.70/rd GP11 surplus ammo; your only options now are S&B and PP, both of which make decent ammo but which will run you upwards of $1.70 a cartridge. If you want actual match-grade ammunition your only option in the USA is probably Steinel, who will sell you very high-quality ammunition for $2.50/rd. Ouch!
Thanks for the vid could you do one about the Bergmann MG?
In true Swiss fashion, they went all out in quality here. Even the serial number is a work of art.
Imagine being the sales rep for Gardner with dreams of a big commission and a new boat dancing in your head. Then Maxim shows up and you coin the phrase Gone in 60 Seconds. 😂
Another Great Video 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
do the Gardiner gun next PLEASE, I always liked that liked that gun since I was a boy, simple but effective, plus you can regulate your fire with crank speed!
The devils paint bush - what a nickname for a machine gun. Sadly humans are still using machine guns over 100 years later, but we are working on lasers at least for drones.
Very nice.
I got so excited.
In 2011 I shot this machine gun.
It belongs to a friend of mine and is fully matching serials, gun and stand, serial number being #1911.
Could not stop looking at receptible in the background 🙃
Glorious ❤
Ian, would it have been possible to update the MG11 to a non-reciprocating charging handle?
I'm in love. I want it so badly.
I liked this video the moment I saw that tripod being assembled, the Swiss know their guns and a Swiss Maxim is probably the Creme de La Creme no matter what anyone else has made!!!!!
Every single swiss gun I've owned was so precisely machined and hardened that with a drop of oil made the action feel like I used grease, buttery smooth.
The modernization upgrades in 1934/35, especially the fully metal belt, show how innovation meets tradition in the world of firearms.
Absolutely love the story, nasty looking piece machinery 👍
The Maxim gun is still the ultimate machine gun.
Cool one
the tripod puts swiss watches to shame
For some bizarre reason, as soon as Ian said it was Swiss, I half expected him to place it on the ground, press a button and for some precision clockwork, to extend the tripod, swivel the gun into place and load it ready for use, all with Ian standing back with his hands on his hips, looking on. Was almost disapointed when he did it all manually! lol.
The Swiss, good at watch-making, seemingly good at gun-making, too.
I am not a gun aficionado but I do find them interesting.
Does the US .30-06 cartridge have any advantages over the 7.5 Swiss cartridge in military use?
From what I heard, you'd need a barrel longer than 24" to take advantage of the 30-06. With 22" barrels 30-06 offers not much - if any - practical advantage over 7.62 NATO and similar cardridges.
What's that scale on the left side of the gun? Great episode.