I do NOT care WHO is shooting at me: their bullets will KILL me if I don't respond! This entire discussion is why Lawyers are the Rule of Law's WORST Enemy! Cheers from the Oil Patch in Central WY
Yes it happened to me too. I heard my neighbor next door 2-3am saying loudly I want to shoot her through the window while she sleeping. Suddenly while lying in the bed it register I was the she, she was talking about me! I jumped up and got to praying while getting my firearm. I never thought to leave bc it was a lot of ppl. I live alone then I heard neighbor across my street saying do it! Shoot! egging it on. No love, I got my rifle loaded it never crossed my mind to call police bc they never support this community. They would say wait until it happens it'sy word against her So I told my animals get to the basement and I was nervously prepared to fire back in the same direction the bullet came from through the walls. they were on the front porch a lot of women. I waited for the first shot. It never happened. Jesus Christ answered that prayer; thank God!!! It was close.
Firearm safety rule. Know whats behind your target and beyond it. Practically speaking unless you know where you are being fired from and they are shooting at you...don't waste your bullets
Yep. plus know what your target is. Is it a mother holding her child and in one hand and spraying and praying with her other hand. If that is the source of the bullet holes in your wall then get off the X and duck behind cover.
Nuance matters. If you know someone is firing on you, and you know where they are, yes. If random bullets are coming through your wall and you don’t know why or from where, or what angle, no. If someone is on your front porch after banging on the door and starts firing, heck yes. You know where they are. You know they mean to harm you.
In your last example, can you clearly see your target (ex. through a glass door, or screen door) and what is behind them? If not, then I wouldn't shoot.
@@chris-dd6uq you know the layout of your house and the relationship of the door to the neighborhood. If someone was banging on the door and threatening you then starts to shoot, you know where they are. Acting like you were dropped in a Parallel universe where you don’t know where anything is is ridiculous. I don’t have to see the bathroom at night to walk there and jiggle the toilet valve. If the toilet became sentient with AI then threatened me and started shooting at me I could hit it through the wall.
@@FilmFlam-8008 just because that person is banging on your door doesn't mean they're exactly in front of your door. Also, you still have to be able to see your target.
When I built my home, the placement of the window was high to provide cover from an incoming round and the walls are concrete block with the cells poured with concrete with added steel rebar. The outer doors are steel fire doors.
@@ericschneider8524 we average 60 inches of rainfall a year. Water table is high. Potential problem with building codes. Block in an above ground house is fireproof, but the contents of the house will still burn. I also like having windows.
This comes across as a "please give me permission to shoot somebody" question. What you should do is get away from the wall where the bullets are coming through and call 9-1-1.
@@geoffc376 Yeah, pretty much. This "shooting" is none of your concern, by and large, and if you choose to get involved beyond making the 9-1-1 call, you'll probably regret it.
That would depend on the pattern of the incoming fire. The kill zone is a cone, that spreads with distance, if the shots are coming in consistently then the smaller end of the cone is the better. I would get under the line of fire, if that is at hip level then the floor is the best, the further away the wider the cone. Like at any outdoor range with grass, the closer to the firing line the better the grass is, the further away the more the dirt is tore up. If trapped in a line of fire, and the fire is not directed at the person, closer is better as the ground is below the kill zone.
@Novusod Not a sheep. A smart person who's not going to be shot and not going to be charged with any crime. There is no intervention I could make here that has more than a very small chance of being correct or effective. I'm not taking such odds. I'm going to break contact and notify legitimate authorities. That is clearly the rational response.
Agree, get down, and get out of the line of fire. If the person is shooting at another person they are not shooting at the floor, but with distance and deflection at some point rounds will go lower. Now if you can see the shooter, say they are outside and you can see them, self defense is self defense.
Very good question! I have a tangent here, and possibly a scenario for training. We start with the scenario in the video. You get off the X and you're still taking rounds. Assuming an apartment building with a dozen or so units per floor with an interior hall. You get to the hall and rounds are still being fired. Seconds count, police are minutes away, and you're the closest armed citizen who could do something to stop the threat. When does greater danger say you first consider being a defender of others in the moment, in contrast to isolated self protection? Part of the reason I bring this up is because we've tested that if I'm taking fired through my wall, my wall is likely not the only wall the rounds are going through.
Bullets coming through walls and windows are pretty common. A few years ago several houses in a nearby city someone shot through the windows with a rifle, I don't think they found who did it. They suspected it was someone hunting that missed.
Yup, had one hit a window of the building I work in. Luckily it seemed to have come from far off because we have double pane windows and it broke through the first pane without shattering it and came to rest between panes at the bottom of the frame.
If your a cop the answer is absolutely yes, they would mag dump in the general direction the shots came from then reload and dump another mag then pause and if they heard any noise dump another mag and have qualified immunity to cover them.
There was a recent situation in California. Man was shooting into an occupied apartment through the window. Apartment dweller fired back aiming at the muzzle flash. Wounded the shooter.
Glad I didn't miss this one, this should have been part of every CPL class. So much to think about, make me want to armor my bedroom at the very lease.
Hey Kevin, In reference to the mattress as cover.... Back in 1971 when I took the hunter safety course in New York, upstate, one of the examples of not having a loaded weapon in the car was a photo of a shotgun that was leaned on the front seat butt to floor. The shotgun discharged into the front seat backrest and mortality wounded the back seat passenger. Not one shot from the gun touched the backseat passenger. The springs in the front seat backrest were blown out of the backrest killing the passenger.
I actually know a guy who lived in a large apartment complex. All the apartments were accessible from inside. There ended up being a gang related shooting in the hallway outside his door. Bullets never entered his apartment, but shots were fired outside his door. So this scenario could happen.
This brings up an interesting "story" i know of. 1 summer evening, multiple gunshots (25+) were fired and the bullets were clipping branches around this familys house while they were outside bbqing. They got on the floor of the house and called 911. dispatch said "deputies were taking down a deer hit by a car with a shotgun". clearly the shots fired were semiauto handguns in rapid succession, presumably 9mm. Family told dispatch to have them stop, they're shooting at us. dispatch replied with "you cannot prove the deputies are shooting at you unless you find shell casings (and bullets?)". family replied with "i'm going to shoot back until they stop and they cannot prove it was me"(very close to that message). dispatch advised against that and the gunfire stopped. Later that night, deputies returned to the scene with flashlights picking up all their shell casings. ABSOLUTELY wreckless on the officers part, luckily no one was hit(aside from bambi, unknown number of times inhumanely).
I was listening to UA-cam while driving yesterday, so I couldn't comment, but I couldn't escape the image this conjured. One person in a neighboring apartment shooting at another, and the bullets coming through the wall into my apartment. Presumably, one of those people is the good guy, and if I return fire, BOTH will be in my line of fire. There's no way that could go well.
There are no good guys shooting at me, or my family. IF I can see them, and take them out, I will protect my family. I don't care if it is the police, the military, or even the pope, if they are shooting at innocent people they are NOT good guys.
Even IF she was shooting in self defense, should one or more of her bullets strike someone in another apartment, she's now, unfortunately, a "bad guy". At least to the recipient(s) of her bullets.
I lived there a time where we had 23 shots come through our walls and windows. I’m glade I didn’t look out to see who. As didn’t know exactly what was being shot. I hope no one ever has to go through this
I'd love to hear you guys explain away the Bradley Hocevar case in Pinellas County, FL. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist for opening fire through closed vertical blinds and emptying a full 30 round mag from his AR-15 at what turned out to be his pool guy. I have uscca coverage and would love to hear you cover this one. When we watched Sheriff Gualtieri give the whole rundown we figured Hocevar would be at least charged with some kind of reckless discharge. Nothing. Watch the video. There was never any threat assessment as he was just shooting blindly through closed blinds.
That's all about jurisdiction, every case may be different depending on just the city or county you live in. That same behavior could easily see criminal charges in a different city.
Unless you can ID the target you'd be a fool to blindly return fire. You could be shooting at someone who was the DEFENDER in a bad situation. Your bullets in a home defense situation go through walls too. Without more info, duck and cover, or exit.
That's an EXCELLENT point. That's also why after a defensive shooting you're supposed to put your gun away and not have it on you, so that the police don't think you're the attacker. The problem is that if they show up and start shooting at you anyway then you have no weapon on you to shoot back with.
Very good attorneys have no time for the internet. That said this one proves the point, if you are being shot at by a person, and have not done anything to deserve it, the shooter is a bad guy. Not being able to identify your target is a bad idea to shoot. But that does not make the shooter a good guy if they are throwing lead indiscriminately, even in self defense. There is NO EXCUSE for shooting innocent bystanders. My advice is determine the line of fire, and then get out of the line of fire, most shootings are slightly down angle, so closer may be better than crawling away. A person usually shoots from eye level towards the chest which is a slight down angle. Close to the wall at floor level not inline with the kill zone might be the best. The further away the more chance of a hit from deflection. If there is concrete anywhere, then get behind it.
This happened to us back in 1990. We live in a wooded area and often hear people shooting guns in the distance. A neighbor across the street bought the property and pulled up a camper to camp in. He and his friends were outside and one guy shot off his gun. The pellets peppered the side of my house. First we heard the birdshot pepper our house then heard the gun shot across the street. Me, my wife and our 1 year old son was in the living room right next to where the pellets hit. I ran outside trying to figure out what the F*** was going on, confronted the neighbor yelling and screaming at him for shooting our house. Him and his buddies laughed and the guy with the gun said for me to calm down because he wasn't shooting towards my house. He said he was shooting at the trees to the south. He said your house is to the west. I argued with them again telling him it hit my house. Then he said what proof do you got? I said you're shooting birdshot aren't you because the pellets peppered the side of my house. Their mouths dropped because he was indeed using birdshot. The only way for me to know he was shooting birdshot is if the pellets had indeed peppered my house. He apologized.
I have a school that gets a lot of foot traffic behind my house and to be honest a stray bullet coming through my wall concerns me more then a home invader.
This does happen from time to time, there is that case of a gang going and shooting up some guys house, it was many gang members and they fired many shots into the house. One scenario which you didn't bring up in the video is there could potentially be a SWAT raid happening at a neighbors house, that erupts into a massive gunfight, which could result in your house getting peppered too. Depending on what facts you chose to believe, this was like the situation at pulse night club according to some sources, many hostages died from being shot through walls during the gun battle. Also there was that much more recent situation where two gentleman were kicking in the door at an apartment complex, the resident had a door bell cam and seen they had guns, he fired I believe 14 shots through the door at them, and they fired two back at him, however all 14 of his shots missed and went into his neighbors apartment, luckily no one was shot.
Good question some people actually don't know this, awkwardly enough... I am also definitely interested in clarification for someone in a vehicle, trying to actively run you off the road. Can you legally shoot this person, if you can't get away from them? In-law enforcement capacity most certainly, but what about our civilian circumstances? I'm not trigger happy so I haven't even brandished my firearm... but this has happened to me several times in a civilian capacity. Being that a vehicle is typically over 2000 pounds and this does make you fear for your life, would this be a justified shooting? Especially with my family in the vehicle?
The real bottom line is 9/10 you will go to prison. Unless the evidence is very clearly in your favor (not your opinion of what "very clearly" is, what common sense and the law defines it as) you are probably going away.
Q4U: You are sleeping in a camper and shots are repeatedly being put into your RV from an unknown person with no prior contact, Its night time with limited visibility. Ideally, find cover and try to PID where and whom the shots are coming from. Please advise.
In the (improbable) event of me needing to return fire, one person in my life knows what it means to 'pull your socks up'. Bullet Tooth Tony says this in the bar scene of _Snatch_ (2000) and proceeds to aimlessly shoot through a wall to stop a hallway fight on the other side. Most of the guys eventually (Avi first) drop to the floor and one guy plus Boris gets shot... with a dozen rounds of .50 AE. The one person in my life is rarely seen but the important fact is she never wears socks so it makes total sense for her to duck down if the occasion calls for it. Don't blow rounds off without knowing what's going on over there. Might as well be wearing a blindfold.
Our youth pastor at my church his father was almost shot by a stray bullet sitting in his living room. They believed it was accidental someone was target shooting bc that's what we do in Texas but they should have been aware of what's beyond the targets. Reckless behavior most of us raised on guns know better
You can't run faster than a bullet, get below the line of fire, and away from the center of the kill zone. I would actually get closer to the wall on the floor. There was an incident in NYC several years ago with a NYCPD officer firing wildly wounding 11 people, most of them were running away instead of getting on the ground.
Amen! how can you shoot back at someone you don't see. As you guys said before who's standing next to the perp and perhaps someone was being stupid as they cleaned there gun and had a negligent discharge that cam your way...but I will say this I'd definitely hit the deck.
I had a incident something like that on the farm lived on many years ago. My son was out in the yard playing and I had heard the shots when he came running into the house yelling for me. He told me someone was shooting at him from the woods. I grabbed my SKS and went outside and the shoots rang out again . This time the pellets were hitting me. I yelled out for them to stop firing that direction the shoots rang out again hitting me in the chest and arms. I opened up with that SKS and peppered the area from where the shoots were coming from. Needless to say things got quiet after that. A few minutes later some hunters appeared out of the woods batching because I layed down some heavy fire on there ass's and they didn't care much for that. I told them to never hunt that close to my home again or they would have the joy of hinding from 7.62 rounds again. No one was hurt except they smelled a little funny when they got close 😲😄😄. Gun safety is important even in the woods little lone in an apartment complex . So please people take it seriously . Have a nice day 😊. Peace 🙏
Hope I don't annoy the neighbors/ maintenance personnel too much while I fill the walls my apartment shares with other apartments with riverrock and peagravel. Won't stop the bullets, but should ensure I don't DIE when the neighbors' discussions turn ballistic.
Do you have a bookcase? Bullets don’t generally go through stacks of books. Great question though. Could start an episode on how to set up a home to be safer. Steel doors for a safer area?
Its behind a wall, multiple bullets are coming from different locations, you dont even know where to run cuz you don't know where the next one will come through. That limits your flight response.
When I saw a thumbnail I thought this video would be if someone is on the other side of your door trying to break in, or shooting through it, can you shoot them through the door. Would have been a better topic.
THIS question is WHY we have so many problems with gun related issues. IF somebody actually needs an answer to this question, the person CLEARLY doesn't know what they NEED to know in regards to responsible gun ownership/use. Not to put down whoever asked this. But yeah, we need people to know what they're dealing with. This is a very, very basic question.
The issue is who’s it going to hit when your return fire. It can go through the next apartment to hit an innocent. Grab your gun and get cover until you know what’s up……if obvious they are trying to kill you and it’s not just stray bullets then just be very careful.
Shall not be infringed. Nobody requires YOUR permission or your comfort to exercise an inalienable right. Also, I'm going to go out ona limb here and say this exact question never came up in any "safety class" you attended - and why would you need multiple? Are you projecting your own lack of safety here or what?
Unless your firearm is in your hand your probably not going to have time to fire back even if you were justified before it stops. Just get to the best protection as fast as you can react.
All this scenario brings to mind is “know your target and what’s beyond it”. You don’t know what your target is and should not be blindly firing. I’d you claim the wall is your target well then what’s beyond it?
I would call 911 and take cover on the floor, or leave the apartment. I would never shoot back through the wall as I could not see who I was shooting at.
Think of all the questions the police will ask and your only real answer is, “I don’t know.” Who were you shooting at? Who else was there? How did it start? “I don’t know,” is probably a bad answer.
To answer the title question: well, if the immediate life-threatening Earth creature targeting you directly is not clearly visible (i.e. on the other side of the wall), then you do not respond by shooting back. There is no telling what's beyond the other side of that wall/obstacle. Firearm Safety Rule#4: Know your target and what's behind it.
I have a question somewhat related to this scenario. If someone is shooting at me or in my direction but I can't identify the target, can I legally lay down suppression fire to get away?
You certainly can but have to suffer the consequences of your actions. This may mean that you get charged with reckless endangerment, aggravated assault, or even murder. Get some training!
Teflon bullets ? Teflon is nothing more then a Lubricant to allow less friction in the barrel, nothing more. I see there are still some out there who believe in that old lie that the teflon gives magical properties ...
@@FC-qe1wl That was sarcasm playing on the myth… like AR-15’s are weapons of war. Though they hinted at it in the video they never actually came said the question violates one of the four basic rules, “know your target and beyond.” So the sarcasm covers multiple issues.
If you shoot back, you'll most likely miss and your bullets will go through someone else's wall lol. Then they shoot back and it goes through another person's wall. Then they shoot back........and so on until everyone is blind shooting at walls 🧱 🔫 👀
My mom was in the city and a homeless guy was attempting to set the building on fire after being told to get out of the parking lot. Can you shoot in defense of the people in the building that said homeless person is potentially threatening if he manages to get the building to start burning?
They glanced over that aspect. If someone is knocking/banging at your front door, then boom comes through -- I'm in FL, castle doctrine and stand your ground -- I'll draw and do at least two double taps. I don't let my wife answer the door if I'm here, she won't answer it if I'm gone and she's not expecting anyone. I wake up -- pants, pistol, boots then coffee -- always. Random shot, though a window (brick exterior), No. Multiple shots, I'll be running for a rifle, and getting ready to engage tactically sound. It is my home, my property they're shooting at intentionally. They are endangering my family and most likely a threat to others 🤷♂ I run toward gunfire just like I'll bolt toward an accident, boy scout in me I guess. I also shoot back when getting shot at, other stupid stuff like running into a rip because some kid barely knows how to swim got caught in it, not even taking off my steel toe work boots or pants or pistol 😂 Through your front door, *_almost certain NOT anything but malicious._*
Great topic. And that's one of the reasons I love having armor for home defense. And everyday carry in general because it provides protection from more than bullets. And with ar500 plates is a great passive workout.
@@agvulpine I agree and if I was to build my own home those would be my go to materials. I think you misunderstood the armor is to protect myself and family. Not the home itself. And the steel plates go in my carrier when I'm working out for resistance training.
i think if someone firing multiple rounds through my wall,i think that is a deadly threat no matter who is shooting.there is no question,but i wouldnt shoot blindly through a wall.get down on the floor,and acquire your target.
Maybe get some metal an put it in a spot you can get to like a closet or side the bed so your safe an if they come through your wall have your defense weapon, pistol or shotgun w/e makes the out come in your favor
in this situation. parson a is shoting at person b. and call yourself person c. most likely person b is between you and the shooter. that being said the person you hit is most likely to not be the person with the gun.
The moral and correct answer is , lure the shooter to the door, and center mass. Do not, DO NOT involve authorities, even if you have to grease everyone in the place.
In California no such thing as self defense. When getting shot at inside your home by shooting suspect you can return fire only to stop the threat. If you say anything else you will most likely do prison time.
Wouldn't the very first thing to argue and claim be,,, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WALL... I thought I was the target. I didn't know they were arguing and someone else was the target. I believed I was defending myself. Playing the what if game is typically a practice in how much we can test our imaginations rather than reality.
What if the person in the other room gets fatally shot? This is why room walls must not be made of such penetrable materials. Those materials have only one purpous - help in quick burning down in case of fire.
No, the materials used in walls (drywall) are designed specifically to be fire-resistant. They're also designed to be as cheap as possible. Lining all your walls with 1/4" or 1/2" thick steel plate would be terribly expensive. If you live in a "lively" neighbourhood it might not be a bad idea though--but if you can afford it, you can also afford to move someplace else. Putting thick steel plates on the opening side of your front door might not be a bad idea though, when answering the door you can stay off to the side and the plate will stop bullets.
Someone might be shooting at an innocent person outside and the person happens to be running into your yard for protection as he's being fired upon, you would be also shooting toward they innocent person also! Might be best to get to a safe place in your house and call the law!
Let me make this simple. Your defense attorney is going to have a more difficult time selling the jury that it was more advantageous for you to use your X-Ray vision, super hearing to identify and take out a imminent threat than take cover.
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I do NOT care WHO is shooting at me: their bullets will KILL me if I don't respond!
This entire discussion is why Lawyers are the Rule of Law's WORST Enemy!
Cheers from the Oil Patch in Central WY
This would be a fun one for Chat GPT
These events do occur; Sharon Hill PD, PA., Fanta Bility (deceased), Aug. 27, 2022.
Yes it happened to me too. I heard my neighbor next door 2-3am saying loudly I want to shoot her through the window while she sleeping. Suddenly while lying in the bed it register I was the she, she was talking about me! I jumped up and got to praying while getting my firearm. I never thought to leave bc it was a lot of ppl. I live alone then I heard neighbor across my street saying do it! Shoot! egging it on. No love, I got my rifle loaded it never crossed my mind to call police bc they never support this community. They would say wait until it happens it'sy word against her
So I told my animals get to the basement and I was nervously prepared to fire back in the same direction the bullet came from through the walls. they were on the front porch a lot of women. I waited for the first shot. It never happened. Jesus Christ answered that prayer; thank God!!! It was close.
Firearm safety rule. Know whats behind your target and beyond it.
Practically speaking unless you know where you are being fired from and they are shooting at you...don't waste your bullets
Morally too. Legal is big, practical is bigger but moral is your soul.
Facts
Yep. plus know what your target is. Is it a mother holding her child and in one hand and spraying and praying with her other hand. If that is the source of the bullet holes in your wall then get off the X and duck behind cover.
We’ll put that on the tombstone, “He didn’t waste his bullets.”
@@tamstutz921😂😂
Just post a "gun free zone" when you move in, and you'll NEVER have any such problems. The government says so.
🤣Put one on your neighbor's place as well 👍
Hahahaha.. yeah that's what gov. Says.....😮
Just plain stupid,
Think about what you are saying
Good one
🤣
Nuance matters. If you know someone is firing on you, and you know where they are, yes.
If random bullets are coming through your wall and you don’t know why or from where, or what angle, no.
If someone is on your front porch after banging on the door and starts firing, heck yes. You know where they are. You know they mean to harm you.
Interesting ! 🤔
In your last example, can you clearly see your target (ex. through a glass door, or screen door) and what is behind them? If not, then I wouldn't shoot.
@@chris-dd6uq you know the layout of your house and the relationship of the door to the neighborhood.
If someone was banging on the door and threatening you then starts to shoot, you know where they are.
Acting like you were dropped in a Parallel universe where you don’t know where anything is is ridiculous.
I don’t have to see the bathroom at night to walk there and jiggle the toilet valve. If the toilet became sentient with AI then threatened me and started shooting at me I could hit it through the wall.
@@FilmFlam-8008 just because that person is banging on your door doesn't mean they're exactly in front of your door. Also, you still have to be able to see your target.
When I built my home, the placement of the window was high to provide cover from an incoming round and the walls are concrete block with the cells poured with concrete with added steel rebar. The outer doors are steel fire doors.
Underground houses have so many advantages. Fire resistant with built in insulation value.
@@ericschneider8524 we average 60 inches of rainfall a year. Water table is high. Potential problem with building codes. Block in an above ground house is fireproof, but the contents of the house will still burn. I also like having windows.
No identified target, no acquired target, no target isolation = no fire
This comes across as a "please give me permission to shoot somebody" question. What you should do is get away from the wall where the bullets are coming through and call 9-1-1.
Then hide for half an hour while you wait for the police to arrive.
@@geoffc376 Yeah, pretty much. This "shooting" is none of your concern, by and large, and if you choose to get involved beyond making the 9-1-1 call, you'll probably regret it.
That would depend on the pattern of the incoming fire. The kill zone is a cone, that spreads with distance, if the shots are coming in consistently then the smaller end of the cone is the better. I would get under the line of fire, if that is at hip level then the floor is the best, the further away the wider the cone. Like at any outdoor range with grass, the closer to the firing line the better the grass is, the further away the more the dirt is tore up. If trapped in a line of fire, and the fire is not directed at the person, closer is better as the ground is below the kill zone.
Tell me you are sheep without saying you are sheep.
@Novusod Not a sheep. A smart person who's not going to be shot and not going to be charged with any crime. There is no intervention I could make here that has more than a very small chance of being correct or effective. I'm not taking such odds. I'm going to break contact and notify legitimate authorities. That is clearly the rational response.
I can’t believe someone actually asked this question. If you don’t have a clear target and what beyond your target using your firearm is always wrong.
Agree, get down, and get out of the line of fire. If the person is shooting at another person they are not shooting at the floor, but with distance and deflection at some point rounds will go lower. Now if you can see the shooter, say they are outside and you can see them, self defense is self defense.
One thing that comes to mind is "sight-picture" would the wall be your target? Oh, no, this would not be a good thing. Thanks for another great video!
Very good question! I have a tangent here, and possibly a scenario for training.
We start with the scenario in the video. You get off the X and you're still taking rounds. Assuming an apartment building with a dozen or so units per floor with an interior hall. You get to the hall and rounds are still being fired. Seconds count, police are minutes away, and you're the closest armed citizen who could do something to stop the threat. When does greater danger say you first consider being a defender of others in the moment, in contrast to isolated self protection?
Part of the reason I bring this up is because we've tested that if I'm taking fired through my wall, my wall is likely not the only wall the rounds are going through.
Bullets coming through walls and windows are pretty common. A few years ago several houses in a nearby city someone shot through the windows with a rifle, I don't think they found who did it. They suspected it was someone hunting that missed.
Yup, had one hit a window of the building I work in. Luckily it seemed to have come from far off because we have double pane windows and it broke through the first pane without shattering it and came to rest between panes at the bottom of the frame.
Why are people soooo excited to use any opportunity to shoot at someone? I pray I NEVER have to use my gun at all!
Be sure of your target and what is around and beyond it.
If your a cop the answer is absolutely yes, they would mag dump in the general direction the shots came from then reload and dump another mag then pause and if they heard any noise dump another mag and have qualified immunity to cover them.
Always be sure of your target. It would be basically shooting “blind”. Next question, what if one of these 3 people were blind?
I’m speechless. Wow what a question.
There was a recent situation in California. Man was shooting into an occupied apartment through the window. Apartment dweller fired back aiming at the muzzle flash. Wounded the shooter.
I would get into a safe environment and call for assistance from the police and try to get some intel ,if possible, to identify the threat
Glad I didn't miss this one, this should have been part of every CPL class. So much to think about, make me want to armor my bedroom at the very lease.
It's all about the rules of firearm safety. Identify your target and whatever is beyond your target.
Hey Kevin,
In reference to the mattress as cover....
Back in 1971 when I took the hunter safety course in New York, upstate, one of the examples of not having a loaded weapon in the car was a photo of a shotgun that was leaned on the front seat butt to floor. The shotgun discharged into the front seat backrest and mortality wounded the back seat passenger. Not one shot from the gun touched the backseat passenger. The springs in the front seat backrest were blown out of the backrest killing the passenger.
I actually know a guy who lived in a large apartment complex. All the apartments were accessible from inside. There ended up being a gang related shooting in the hallway outside his door. Bullets never entered his apartment, but shots were fired outside his door. So this scenario could happen.
This brings up an interesting "story" i know of. 1 summer evening, multiple gunshots (25+) were fired and the bullets were clipping branches around this familys house while they were outside bbqing. They got on the floor of the house and called 911. dispatch said "deputies were taking down a deer hit by a car with a shotgun". clearly the shots fired were semiauto handguns in rapid succession, presumably 9mm. Family told dispatch to have them stop, they're shooting at us. dispatch replied with "you cannot prove the deputies are shooting at you unless you find shell casings (and bullets?)". family replied with "i'm going to shoot back until they stop and they cannot prove it was me"(very close to that message). dispatch advised against that and the gunfire stopped. Later that night, deputies returned to the scene with flashlights picking up all their shell casings. ABSOLUTELY wreckless on the officers part, luckily no one was hit(aside from bambi, unknown number of times inhumanely).
Interesting question.
Glad I own my own place on some acreage.
i just love to watch these videos and learn a lot more about the laws of having a gun...
Thought about this same thing long ago. Thanks
Target Identification is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of self defense!
I was listening to UA-cam while driving yesterday, so I couldn't comment, but I couldn't escape the image this conjured. One person in a neighboring apartment shooting at another, and the bullets coming through the wall into my apartment. Presumably, one of those people is the good guy, and if I return fire, BOTH will be in my line of fire. There's no way that could go well.
There are no good guys shooting at me, or my family. IF I can see them, and take them out, I will protect my family. I don't care if it is the police, the military, or even the pope, if they are shooting at innocent people they are NOT good guys.
Even IF she was shooting in self defense, should one or more of her bullets strike someone in another apartment, she's now, unfortunately, a "bad guy". At least to the recipient(s) of her bullets.
I lived there a time where we had 23 shots come through our walls and windows. I’m glade I didn’t look out to see who. As didn’t know exactly what was being shot. I hope no one ever has to go through this
I'd love to hear you guys explain away the Bradley Hocevar case in Pinellas County, FL. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist for opening fire through closed vertical blinds and emptying a full 30 round mag from his AR-15 at what turned out to be his pool guy. I have uscca coverage and would love to hear you cover this one. When we watched Sheriff Gualtieri give the whole rundown we figured Hocevar would be at least charged with some kind of reckless discharge. Nothing. Watch the video. There was never any threat assessment as he was just shooting blindly through closed blinds.
That's all about jurisdiction, every case may be different depending on just the city or county you live in. That same behavior could easily see criminal charges in a different city.
Unless you can ID the target you'd be a fool to blindly return fire. You could be shooting at someone who was the DEFENDER in a bad situation. Your bullets in a home defense situation go through walls too. Without more info, duck and cover, or exit.
That's an EXCELLENT point. That's also why after a defensive shooting you're supposed to put your gun away and not have it on you, so that the police don't think you're the attacker. The problem is that if they show up and start shooting at you anyway then you have no weapon on you to shoot back with.
Very good attorneys have no time for the internet. That said this one proves the point, if you are being shot at by a person, and have not done anything to deserve it, the shooter is a bad guy. Not being able to identify your target is a bad idea to shoot. But that does not make the shooter a good guy if they are throwing lead indiscriminately, even in self defense. There is NO EXCUSE for shooting innocent bystanders. My advice is determine the line of fire, and then get out of the line of fire, most shootings are slightly down angle, so closer may be better than crawling away. A person usually shoots from eye level towards the chest which is a slight down angle. Close to the wall at floor level not inline with the kill zone might be the best. The further away the more chance of a hit from deflection. If there is concrete anywhere, then get behind it.
This happened to us back in 1990. We live in a wooded area and often hear people shooting guns in the distance. A neighbor across the street bought the property and pulled up a camper to camp in. He and his friends were outside and one guy shot off his gun. The pellets peppered the side of my house. First we heard the birdshot pepper our house then heard the gun shot across the street. Me, my wife and our 1 year old son was in the living room right next to where the pellets hit. I ran outside trying to figure out what the F*** was going on, confronted the neighbor yelling and screaming at him for shooting our house. Him and his buddies laughed and the guy with the gun said for me to calm down because he wasn't shooting towards my house. He said he was shooting at the trees to the south. He said your house is to the west. I argued with them again telling him it hit my house. Then he said what proof do you got? I said you're shooting birdshot aren't you because the pellets peppered the side of my house. Their mouths dropped because he was indeed using birdshot. The only way for me to know he was shooting birdshot is if the pellets had indeed peppered my house.
He apologized.
I have a school that gets a lot of foot traffic behind my house and to be honest a stray bullet coming through my wall concerns me more then a home invader.
This does happen from time to time, there is that case of a gang going and shooting up some guys house, it was many gang members and they fired many shots into the house. One scenario which you didn't bring up in the video is there could potentially be a SWAT raid happening at a neighbors house, that erupts into a massive gunfight, which could result in your house getting peppered too. Depending on what facts you chose to believe, this was like the situation at pulse night club according to some sources, many hostages died from being shot through walls during the gun battle. Also there was that much more recent situation where two gentleman were kicking in the door at an apartment complex, the resident had a door bell cam and seen they had guns, he fired I believe 14 shots through the door at them, and they fired two back at him, however all 14 of his shots missed and went into his neighbors apartment, luckily no one was shot.
Good question some people actually don't know this, awkwardly enough...
I am also definitely interested in clarification for someone in a vehicle, trying to actively run you off the road. Can you legally shoot this person, if you can't get away from them?
In-law enforcement capacity most certainly, but what about our civilian circumstances?
I'm not trigger happy so I haven't even brandished my firearm... but this has happened to me several times in a civilian capacity. Being that a vehicle is typically over 2000 pounds and this does make you fear for your life, would this be a justified shooting? Especially with my family in the vehicle?
“Can you” and “should you” are two drastically different things
The real bottom line is 9/10 you will go to prison. Unless the evidence is very clearly in your favor (not your opinion of what "very clearly" is, what common sense and the law defines it as) you are probably going away.
Q4U: You are sleeping in a camper and shots are repeatedly being put into your RV from an unknown person with no prior contact, Its night time with limited visibility. Ideally, find cover and try to PID where and whom the shots are coming from. Please advise.
In the (improbable) event of me needing to return fire, one person in my life knows what it means to 'pull your socks up'. Bullet Tooth Tony says this in the bar scene of _Snatch_ (2000) and proceeds to aimlessly shoot through a wall to stop a hallway fight on the other side. Most of the guys eventually (Avi first) drop to the floor and one guy plus Boris gets shot... with a dozen rounds of .50 AE.
The one person in my life is rarely seen but the important fact is she never wears socks so it makes total sense for her to duck down if the occasion calls for it. Don't blow rounds off without knowing what's going on over there. Might as well be wearing a blindfold.
This is similar to a question I asked a friend a person texting in driving on the road with me…
Our youth pastor at my church his father was almost shot by a stray bullet sitting in his living room. They believed it was accidental someone was target shooting bc that's what we do in Texas but they should have been aware of what's beyond the targets. Reckless behavior most of us raised on guns know better
Not me, if bullets go a flying I go a running. I've been in this situation before it's just best to get out of the way
You can't run faster than a bullet, get below the line of fire, and away from the center of the kill zone. I would actually get closer to the wall on the floor. There was an incident in NYC several years ago with a NYCPD officer firing wildly wounding 11 people, most of them were running away instead of getting on the ground.
Great advice !
Amen! how can you shoot back at someone you don't see. As you guys said before who's standing next to the perp and perhaps someone was being stupid as they cleaned there gun and had a negligent discharge that cam your way...but I will say this I'd definitely hit the deck.
If they are endangering my life, I can.
No. Don't shoot thru things. Don't shoot thru doors either. Just a bad idea.
So, just die in the name of “common sense”?
Bad idea.
I had a incident something like that on the farm lived on many years ago. My son was out in the yard playing and I had heard the shots when he came running into the house yelling for me. He told me someone was shooting at him from the woods. I grabbed my SKS and went outside and the shoots rang out again . This time the pellets were hitting me. I yelled out for them to stop firing that direction the shoots rang out again hitting me in the chest and arms. I opened up with that SKS and peppered the area from where the shoots were coming from. Needless to say things got quiet after that.
A few minutes later some hunters appeared out of the woods batching because I layed down some heavy fire on there ass's and they didn't care much for that. I told them to never hunt that close to my home again or they would have the joy of hinding from 7.62 rounds again. No one was hurt except they smelled a little funny when they got close 😲😄😄.
Gun safety is important even in the woods little lone in an apartment complex . So please people take it seriously .
Have a nice day 😊.
Peace 🙏
Hope I don't annoy the neighbors/ maintenance personnel too much while I fill the walls my apartment shares with other apartments with riverrock and peagravel. Won't stop the bullets, but should ensure I don't DIE when the neighbors' discussions turn ballistic.
I’d say this is a difficult question. So many things could go wrong, as there are many unknown variables.
which means do not shoot back
@@slayerarrow😂You're in your place, you should know where cover is.
It’s a simple answer though. The answer is “no”.
Do you have a bookcase? Bullets don’t generally go through stacks of books. Great question though. Could start an episode on how to set up a home to be safer. Steel doors for a safer area?
Only thing I'm getting out of this is that I should live as far away from people as possible.
Its behind a wall, multiple bullets are coming from different locations, you dont even know where to run cuz you don't know where the next one will come through. That limits your flight response.
When I saw a thumbnail I thought this video would be if someone is on the other side of your door trying to break in, or shooting through it, can you shoot them through the door. Would have been a better topic.
THIS question is WHY we have so many problems with gun related issues. IF somebody actually needs an answer to this question, the person CLEARLY doesn't know what they NEED to know in regards to responsible gun ownership/use.
Not to put down whoever asked this. But yeah, we need people to know what they're dealing with. This is a very, very basic question.
Shooting blind through a wall is a really bad idea. Probably better to drop on the deck and sort things out later.
I don’t even care about toms answer I see bullets come at me and bullets are going down range 👌🏻👍🏻
Humm! Well let me through in another thought! Question?? What about many of us that live full time in a RV TRAILER, VAN , CAMPER???
Depends on what state your in ks. Your aren't required to Oklahoma you are required to
The issue is who’s it going to hit when your return fire. It can go through the next apartment to hit an innocent. Grab your gun and get cover until you know what’s up……if obvious they are trying to kill you and it’s not just stray bullets then just be very careful.
First rule of self defense shooting . . . Know your target. DO NOT SHOOT at anything undefined.
I've been in gun safety classes where people actually said yes! These are the people that are out there owning and carrying guns folk's. Yikes!
Shall not be infringed. Nobody requires YOUR permission or your comfort to exercise an inalienable right. Also, I'm going to go out ona limb here and say this exact question never came up in any "safety class" you attended - and why would you need multiple? Are you projecting your own lack of safety here or what?
I would not think so!
Unless your firearm is in your hand your probably not going to have time to fire back even if you were justified before it stops. Just get to the best protection as fast as you can react.
All this scenario brings to mind is “know your target and what’s beyond it”. You don’t know what your target is and should not be blindly firing. I’d you claim the wall is your target well then what’s beyond it?
Firing back would violate rule 4. Plus, if that's Law Enforcement or related shooting through walls and you fire back, your day probably just ended.
Returning fire in this situation does not enhance your chances of survival, so regardless of the other considerations it's not a good idea.
What worries me is that someone actually asked that question.
I would call 911 and take cover on the floor, or leave the apartment. I would never shoot back through the wall as I could not see who I was shooting at.
Think of all the questions the police will ask and your only real answer is, “I don’t know.” Who were you shooting at? Who else was there? How did it start?
“I don’t know,” is probably a bad answer.
Similar question but if you live in a house and someone is shooting at your house. Can you shoot back at them if they were outside?
If several shots came through your wall, at this point I would not assume that I am not the one being shot at.
No
To answer the title question: well, if the immediate life-threatening Earth creature targeting you directly is not clearly visible (i.e. on the other side of the wall), then you do not respond by shooting back. There is no telling what's beyond the other side of that wall/obstacle. Firearm Safety Rule#4: Know your target and what's behind it.
I have a question somewhat related to this scenario. If someone is shooting at me or in my direction but I can't identify the target, can I legally lay down suppression fire to get away?
You certainly can but have to suffer the consequences of your actions. This may mean that you get charged with reckless endangerment, aggravated assault, or even murder. Get some training!
depends on state law...............
This is why you always want to keep some Teflon ammo on hand, for shooting through things at things you cannot see.
Teflon bullets ? Teflon is nothing more then a Lubricant to allow less friction in the barrel, nothing more. I see there are still some out there who believe in that old lie that the teflon gives magical properties ...
@@FC-qe1wl That was sarcasm playing on the myth… like AR-15’s are weapons of war. Though they hinted at it in the video they never actually came said the question violates one of the four basic rules, “know your target and beyond.” So the sarcasm covers multiple issues.
Why NOT look to find protective cover first?????
If you shoot back, you'll most likely miss and your bullets will go through someone else's wall lol. Then they shoot back and it goes through another person's wall. Then they shoot back........and so on until everyone is blind shooting at walls 🧱 🔫 👀
Like a game of curcular firing squad until every one shoots eachother like wanted 2
The end of mankind😮
My mom was in the city and a homeless guy was attempting to set the building on fire after being told to get out of the parking lot. Can you shoot in defense of the people in the building that said homeless person is potentially threatening if he manages to get the building to start burning?
What if they're shooting thru your front door (as this video's picture shows)?
They glanced over that aspect. If someone is knocking/banging at your front door, then boom comes through -- I'm in FL, castle doctrine and stand your ground -- I'll draw and do at least two double taps. I don't let my wife answer the door if I'm here, she won't answer it if I'm gone and she's not expecting anyone. I wake up -- pants, pistol, boots then coffee -- always.
Random shot, though a window (brick exterior), No. Multiple shots, I'll be running for a rifle, and getting ready to engage tactically sound. It is my home, my property they're shooting at intentionally. They are endangering my family and most likely a threat to others 🤷♂
I run toward gunfire just like I'll bolt toward an accident, boy scout in me I guess. I also shoot back when getting shot at, other stupid stuff like running into a rip because some kid barely knows how to swim got caught in it, not even taking off my steel toe work boots or pants or pistol 😂 Through your front door, *_almost certain NOT anything but malicious._*
@@ScrappyXFL And if one hits a neighbor’s kid’s head because you blindly fired through the door? Castle doctrine doesn’t cover you doing that.
Great topic. And that's one of the reasons I love having armor for home defense. And everyday carry in general because it provides protection from more than bullets. And with ar500 plates is a great passive workout.
@@agvulpine I agree and if I was to build my own home those would be my go to materials. I think you misunderstood the armor is to protect myself and family. Not the home itself. And the steel plates go in my carrier when I'm working out for resistance training.
Of course not. You have to be sure what the target is and what is beyond it.
i think if someone firing multiple rounds through my wall,i think that is a deadly threat no matter who is shooting.there is no question,but i wouldnt shoot blindly through a wall.get down on the floor,and acquire your target.
Maybe get some metal an put it in a spot you can get to like a closet or side the bed so your safe an if they come through your wall have your defense weapon, pistol or shotgun w/e makes the out come in your favor
TY USCCA
Only if you are going up stairs with an MP-40 can you fire back thru the wall.
But you are going to have to plug Mellish with a blade.
in this situation. parson a is shoting at person b. and call yourself person c. most likely person b is between you and the shooter. that being said the person you hit is most likely to not be the person with the gun.
NO,hell NO !
How could you ever justify [ or live with yourself ] if you shoot and or kill an innocent !.
Why in hell would anyone asked that. If we have that many crazy , that is unreal.
The moral and correct answer is , lure the shooter to the door, and center mass. Do not, DO NOT involve authorities, even if you have to grease everyone in the place.
So, you are proposing to commit a bunch of crimes.
@@charliefoxtrot5001 If you mean, go all S.W.A.T., and overreact, yes.
OK @1:31..... NO! There may an innocent on the other side of that wall with the gun toter.
That is just a dumb question. If you have to ask that question you shouldn’t have a firearm. This is not combat.
In California no such thing as self defense. When getting shot at inside your home by shooting suspect you can return fire only to stop the threat. If you say anything else you will most likely do prison time.
Wouldn't the very first thing to argue and claim be,,, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WALL... I thought I was the target. I didn't know they were arguing and someone else was the target. I believed I was defending myself.
Playing the what if game is typically a practice in how much we can test our imaginations rather than reality.
I wouldn’t shoot through a wall since I would have no idea where the bullets would go
What if the person in the other room gets fatally shot?
This is why room walls must not be made of such penetrable materials. Those materials have only one purpous - help in quick burning down in case of fire.
No, the materials used in walls (drywall) are designed specifically to be fire-resistant. They're also designed to be as cheap as possible.
Lining all your walls with 1/4" or 1/2" thick steel plate would be terribly expensive. If you live in a "lively" neighbourhood it might not be a bad idea though--but if you can afford it, you can also afford to move someplace else.
Putting thick steel plates on the opening side of your front door might not be a bad idea though, when answering the door you can stay off to the side and the plate will stop bullets.
Someone might be shooting at an innocent person outside and the person happens to be running into your yard for protection as he's being fired upon, you would be also shooting toward they innocent person also! Might be best to get to a safe place in your house and call the law!
So what if the guy in his apt taking fire actually got hit ,went down, then fired back? , then does all this go away?
Shooting recklessly is the same for both sides of the wall.
Let me make this simple. Your defense attorney is going to have a more difficult time selling the jury that it was more advantageous for you to use your X-Ray vision, super hearing to identify and take out a imminent threat than take cover.