What people forget is the " rail bonus" as we call it in Germany. A bus drives on the same road as a car, so drivers think " I could use my car as well" A streetcar on its own track means independence from traffic. And it adds to attractivity if you ride smoothly while passing traffic jams.
Great video. CBC Vancouver should push more UA-cam content like this. Much better for the medium and more engaging than just putting out the regular news clips directly from TV format. I hope the views and engagement will reflect that.
i dont mean to be so off topic but does anybody know a trick to get back into an Instagram account?? I somehow forgot the password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me
It's an honour to share this video and it's so cool to read everyone's comments! Thanks again for letting me do this CBC. Side note, I'm actually a pretty big fan of the Arbutus streetcar. I think it could be successful as long as the city rezoned properties adjacent to the line for higher density developments. Also, streetcar, LRT, or tram? I'm still quite confused as to what the proper term is...
LRT is the current jargon term, intended by the oh-so-sensitive Politically Correct planners to eliminate any implications of "old-fashioned streetcars." In Canada, "streetcar" was and is the common term. Before being renamed as "transit" systems, most streetcar lines were "Street Railway" companies. "Tram" is the British term, although it actually dates back to industrial railways of the 18th century, long before street railways! The speed you quoted for streetcars assumes in-street running. On private right of way, streetcars are considerably faster. Although they would not go that fast in service, most streetcars since the streamlined PCC cars of the 1930s are capable 50-60 mph speeds. On private right of way, they can achieve much higher average speeds than you quote.
All Uytae Lee's video should be collected in one channel, I know About Here has most of them, but many of them are under CBC or CBC Sports, which makes viewers very hard to search and browse. Trust me it would bring About Here planty of viewers
It's definitely a very interesting topic. One thing it would be useful to consider with the comparison of bus and streetcar travel times is that we shouldn't assume people using the streetcar would be mainly going between those two destinations. Based on the graphic at 4:12, there may be about 11 stops on the streetcar including stops in some very dense areas in eastern downtown. Having the same origin and destination makes it easy to forget that they're totally different routes.
Streetcars and trolleys civilize cities, add some old world charm while making them future forward. Not every city is mentally ready for so much cool all at once.
TagusMan you are correct. While we have subways, LRT and traditional trams, our streetcars in Toronto are actually quite iconic. I notice tourists from Europe, Asia and the USA in particular who come here just to ride the trams and take photos and videos. Maybe not as iconic as the NYC subway, or London Routemaster buses, but something that I'm proud of. Vancouver is so beautiful...it's a perfect fit for trams.
Yes, this is true. Here in Hong Kong the Tram system is a HUGE draw for tourists and also locals because it's inexpensive and makes frequent stops. This is something that Translink "forgot" in their report, frequent stops encourages more ridership because there is a bigger catchment.
yup same goes here in Japan - was just in Nagasaki and rode the streetcars just cause i could amongst the "regular" riders who ride because that's how they get around. each car was different paint and so many styles all using same track
@@CanMav The main thing with North American cities I've notice is they choose buses because more people drive due to wanting a home with a lawn. Basically the 1950s nuclear family really took North Americans by storm to the point where I even want despite not liking single family zoning.
In spite of some serious issues, Toronto’s refusal to succumb to the big oil, auto and tire lobby of the 1920’s and 30”s meant that we retained what every big city had back then and what every big city wishes they had today. Red Rocket Baby.
He's missing a number of points entirely. Comparing the #50 bus is a red herring. The initial phase, operating between Science World and Granville Island, would connect SkyTrain, Canada Line, the #3 Main and the #15 Cambie, in addition to the #50 and the #84. This is especially good news for the people who live in the Southeast False Creek neighbourhoods. That's not all: Science World attracts over 600,000 visitors annually, and Granville Island, over 10 million. Connecting those venues, plus all the restaurants, pubs, and entertainment venues along or near the route is a no-brainer. That's before we even consider the impact that tourism might have. Entirely omitted was the issue of ridership generated by the Squamish Nation's plan for developing Senakw. Extending the streetcar toward Vanier Park opens up a potential catchment of more than 10,000 people. Does a streetcar have to cost an arm and a leg? Nope. Much of the infrastructure is in place, to the extent that a fully functional service between Granville Island and Cambie would cost about $8 million, and completed through to Science World, about $25 million--complete with rolling stock. For more information, have a look at the Facebook page "Friends of the Olympic Line / Vancouver Civic Railway."
SQUAMISH nation must pay for own damn connection . walk walk what about free bikes 4 PEOPLE together is considered FRIENDS SO NOT PARAMOUNT TO ANYTHING
It does need to be faster than the buses though, otherwise it's mostly for the tourists and doesn't justify half a billion $$$. Even the Surrey streetcar was planned at 21 km/h.
This was extremely trippy to watch as I've lived in both Vancouver and Brussels... So it took me forever to understand the trams were from another city, cause they looked so familiar! Trams are so user-friendly and approachable. I hope this somehow comes to fruition.
The Cities of Kitchener and Waterloo finished the ION Rapid Transit, an LRT, a year ago in June. The great thing they did with that is they increased ridership on the route that would go on to become the ION's tracks, pretty much ensuring use once the service went online. They did this by designating a central corridor to be the spine of the transit system along King Street, putting buses on that route and then also having additional buses supplementing said route. This way, they had a ready and willing ridership ahead of the creation of the ION and the transition to the trains was smooth and with relatively little headache.
Problem is, that isn’t how we would build it. We already have our backbones, skytrain, so LRT in Vancouver would end up more like Calgary or Edmonton, which is, well... not great
That would be quite an awesome line. Not only that but the Canada Line is expected to have capacity issues in 10 years. The arbutus corridor streetcar would take some ridership off the Canada Line and offer relief
plus take pressure off #10 bus on Granville. Right now, #10 doesn't run that well and frequently not on time. Also Translink own the land at the bottom of Hudson Street already. It will be perfect for them.
Ah yes my favorite part of living in vancouver, the unapologetically bipolar weather. Raining monday, snowing tuesday, sunshine wednesday, snow again thursday, and rain to top the week off.
Nah, it's not so bipolar at all actually. It has been raining for nearly ten days without sunny breaks, then we get maybe 20 hrs of no rain, a few hours of clear sky, and it rains for another two weeks again. That snow in the clip, was an exception that doesn't happen that often.... :P
The streetcar goes through different areas of the city. If you have the infrastructure, you might as well use it to make those areas of the city more accessible.
I grew up in Vancouver, was a volunteer at the 2010 Olympics, rode those streetcars almost every day during that time, and now live in San Francisco. Every day I take the J-MUNI streetcar to my downtown job. It a superb service and Vancouver would greatly benefit from streetcars too.
like he said atthe end the service need to go where want to go for people to use it one thing these pro public transportation video do tell people is you are limited on how much you can carry if you need to carry a weeks worth food they will not let you on
I use these exact trams every day in Brussels (lines 19 and 25), and they are indeed very comfortable (especially more comfortable than being in a traffic jam). Two remarks; Firstly, cities in Europe tend to have much higher population densities than in North America (Vancouver 5500people/km² vs 7400people/km²), which makes mass transport more efficient in Europe almost by definition. Second, also the STIB-MIVB (Brussels Transport) calculated that building 1km of metro costs the same as 10km of tramway. One option might look fancier than the other, but is not always the best choice
The problem with transit in Vancouver and the rest of Canada is the profit motive. That Canada line was at capacity within months of being opened. This is exactly what Translink would want. Building a larger capacity that we could grow in to and that went initially underutilized is the definition of waste that some bureaucrats or politicians head would roll for. When we think of transitioning to a green transportation system we have to think about an all of the above approach. When crime is high no one says we don't have money for police so why all this debate over pubic transportation spending.
Great video. Why is it assumed that a transit service must be run by TransLink? Couldn't Vancouver run its own service, like West Van does the Blue Bus? Is there something preventing this?
Answer is in the video: costs. $100 million to refurbish the Olympic Village to Granville Island line to handle permanent service (including maintenance facilities, streetcars we can keep, etc). This may seem small, but the full lines through city streets would be another order of magnitude more expensive. Large transit infrastructure projects requiring these sorts of dollars typically require more than just a city to finance it on its own (keep in mind the CoV has had to raise property taxes a lot this year for expenses already on the table, so I don't think it's ready to just hand over a couple hundred million dollars for a fancy streetcar). As for what TransLink thinks, while I can't speak for them, I think it's not hard to see why they wouldn't see it as a priority or fitting with their moving-people mandate. Like, if a streetcar is supposed to be all about improving access Granville Island, that could be done just as well through the proposal to run an elevator connecting to bus stops on the Granville Bridge - a CoV project that would likely not require TransLink paying a cent. Call me biased as a Surrey resident, but with the needs throughout the region especially in areas like Surrey and the Tri-cities that need more bus service, I wouldn't support regional transit money being redirected away from that and towards something like a streetcar in Vancouver that doesn't have clear benefits to the region.
Sometimes I wonder why Vancouver endorses monopoly on so many things. (e.g. ICBC) Tokyo has metro run by different companies and it worked, so consider that the street car is leaning towards a more scenic option, perhaps it can indeed be run by a company that have better focus on tourism instead of a mass transportation company
Noxid C The San Francisco Bay Area has 27 different transit systems. It was only a decade ago or so that the 3 main systems started using the same payment system. But still no free transfers, synchronized schedules, etc. I wouldn’t mind them getting consolidated a bunch.
TransLink is part of the provincial transit system, as is the West Vancouver Blue Bus. Both live off subsidies from the federal, provincial and municipal governments. TransLink exists so that the entire Greater Vancouver Regional District has a coordinated transit system with one system of fares and transfers. Previously, transit was in the hands of private operators, especially in the outlying towns (BC Electric controlled the main system) and, other than BCE's routes, there was utter chaos.
The 50 is a North / South service, the streetcar would be an East / West. And giving Olympic Village access to a fun shopping area would brighten their prospects, as their hood is still pretty bleak, just the one grocery store. The rails are there.... not using them is wasting a lot of space that could otherwise be used for community gardens or other options.
Not necessarily. Ice on the overhead wires can cause (usually brief) power interruptions or excessive sparking. It mostly depends on whether the cars are kept in service continuously, as in Toronto, so that ice cannot build up.
Good analysis. Even before the Olympic demonstration line, that line was used for heritage trolleys / streetcars; anyone remember that? That is what that line along south False Creek should be used for between Victoria Day and Labour Day. It was great back in the day, and it will be fun again in the future.
Sydney used to have trams like Melbourne still has today. Both were built before electricity when construction cost was lower but for Sydney after the WW2 maintaining the tracks was costing so much that in the early 1960s trams were dug up from Sydney but Melbourne left them and continues to run most of the same routes. Sydney is now spending a HUGE amount of money to rebuild some of the trams in the CBD but its come with many delays in construction. These trams now are running much slower than the buses that ran before them.
The larger percentage of the track on a dedicated right of way (and closer to light rail) the better. One reason buses are disliked is because travel times and frequency can be really unreliable, particularly during rush hours because they have to wait in line like everyone else. BRT can be a solution but many BRT systems still have large sections in mixed traffic, and if you're going to run buses in their own lane for the vast majority of the route, well it's not going to cost a lot more to slap down some rails and OHL and run a tram or light rail vehicle.
Comparing the routes of bus 50 and the proposed streetcar line is like comparing apples and oranges. The real thing that should be looked at is, if we take the original Granville Island to Waterfront station proposal, whether or not there's demand for passenger traffic from Granville island and Waterfront to Eastside, China town and Science World. The 2 routes might start and end in the same places but have vastly different routes and as such, vastly different passenger groups. As such there might be demand for traffic from Granville Island to Eastside, or from Waterfront to Science World, and those groups of passengers who won't be going the full length of the line but instead ride along sections of it to get where they need to go would be the key to it's viability.
LOL. Everybody calls it a street car without ever releasing exactly how is it a street car. Is it a street or is it a car? A street is a street but a car is a what, a tram, a trolley, a cart, what is it? Stupid name that makes no sense, street car... which is? In UK and other English speaking nations it is called a tram. But in Yankeeland, it is called a street car, as if it is a street car which is a car that travels on a street, but not a Tram unless tracks are laid on a street like tram tracks. Just like the other bullshit, railroad, which it even stupider, as if the rail tracks are on a road. The question is, how do railways become rail roads when road is for cars and rails for train. Confusing as f.
@@mickcarson8504 "Car" is a generic term for vehicles used on railways long before the automobile was invented. Streetcar (one word) is the correct term in North America and has been since the 1860s.
@@jppicur No, car is short for carriage, long before trains existed. A carriage was a 4 wheeled horse drawn vehicle used to carry people and anything after the horse drawn vehicles retained the carriage name long before the actual first road vehicles, and those were the carriage pulled on rail tracks by a steam locomotive. The carriages were mainly used to transport people at first. Then came the rail goods carriages, also pulled by a steam locomotive. Then cars first appeared, they were used to carry people and the name carriage was not caught yet as they were known a vehicles. Up until the vehicles were designed to carry passengers at the back that they known as motor carriages. But to avoid the confusion with the rail carriages, they simply adapted a name that distinguished the difference from a rail carriage and road motor carriage they named the motor carriage as car for short. Over time the road vehicle became known as car but many others also called it a motorcar or motor vehicle, or a more respectable way of calling it is automobile.
Uytae! I bet you’ll never see this, but we met once at the Halifax public library on Spring Garden. I told you how much I loved PlaniFax as we were waiting for our coffee. I’m so happy to see you’re still doing your thing! You’re going to be a famous Canadian broadcaster one day.
I'm a Vancouver transplant living in Dallas for the past twelve years. The streetcar here isn't doing well because the line is very short and the city seems determined to kill it from day one. We have the DART trading that goes throughout the metroplex and has great ridership. There's also a heritage streetcar line which runs restored historic streetcars including a PCC from Toronto and ridership is very high
Comparing Dallas to Vancouver is also a bit of an apples to oranges thing; Dallas is a more spread-out city than any of the Van-area distances described in the video. There's also the question of the effect of car culture in America, which tends to make them begrudging of public transit in many areas. There's some of that here as well, but I don't think it's quite coming from the same place. So a streetcar solution could actually work a lot better here than it would in other cities.
I still don't get it. If the tracks are already there, basically everything out of the way and infrastructure in place, wouldn't the cost be so minimal that it's a no brainer? I mean, how could it hurt? Wouldn't it just be a bonus? Everything helps, right? I'd take it over the bus, even though it's slightly longer.
CAUSE effective bad enough you PEOPLE ruin my train tracks ARBUTUS is not BIke motOWAY.. NOT A FREE WAY THIS SUMMER YOU WILL ALL SLOW DOWN. RUNNING OVER ,OLDE LADY MILLICENT YOU DELINQUENT RIDERS MUST BE STOP
Tracks are just a small part of the puzzle. You would also need permanent maintenance buildings, staff, and storage tracks - items of great expense that probably weren't necessary for a borrowed demonstration streetcar meant to be here for just 60 days. Such facilities would likely also have to be built to support a much bigger streetcar system and not just the short spur, and this would require a significant upfront investment on expensive downtown Vancouver land. If you ask me, the Arbutus LRT proposal has more potential despite old tracks being torn out. Maintenance facility land would not only be less expensive at the end of the line in Marpole, but such a maintenance yard could probably be Incorporated into the existing TransLink facilities in the area. That streetcar line could then be extended into downtown later on.
@@daisukiman Hmmmm. Interesting. Yeah, bottom line is that the city and even Metro area are in desperate need of A LOT more transit, specifically fast/efficient options like LRT/train whatever. They're certainly attaining their goals at making it more difficult for drivers with cars, but completely failing at providing that solution, better transit, reliable and efficient transit. The demand is certainly there.
Prior to the Olympic Line, a group of volunteers used the old tracks to provide a heritage service on weekends between Science World and Granville Island. It was a nice ride and people used to like to make a circle trip, one way by genuine vintage trams (dating from 1907 and 1913, and having been used in the Vancouver area up to 1958). The city made a relatively small financial contribution to support the service. Given that parking on weekends on Granville Island is horrific, and that many people were either unaware of the existence of, or unwilling to ride on, a diesel bus, the trams provided a valuable service. When the line was renovated for the Olympics, the volunteer group was thrown out without so much as a thank you from the city politicians. (Note: that renovation cost $8 million, for two weeks' service, and remember, there is only one taxpayer.) One of the issues was that while Suzanne Anton endorsed the streetcar idea as part of her platform when running for mayor, her opponent took the contrary position, and as Mayor Moonbeam returned victorious, the volunteers were never invited back. Geoff Meggs had a hand in killing the volunteer service; presumably it didn't fit his vision of all of us riding around on bicycles. The heritage cars have now been removed from the city, never to return, even though dozens of progressive cities around the world manage to find room for heritage cars on their regular streetcar tracks on weekends and holidays. The overhead power lines have been stolen by metal thieves who would likely take the rails too if they could get away with it. The City of Vancouver is quick to demand, and slow to pay, when it comes to public transportation, a habit which it got into in 1890 when the first streetcar system started to run, and has never fully anted up its share of the cost of providing public transit in this city, be it bus, train, ferry or whathaveyou. Finally, I take issue with the examples presented of "failed" streetcar systems. While they are not a panacea, streetcars have their place in cities with well developed transit habits - places where there is a mature transit system and many people routinely ride transit. Look at the successes of places like Portland, Seattle ... and OMG Tacoma! Never mind Dallas, Detroit or Atlanta, where transit ridership is poor due to bad urban design and poor public perception of the local transit systems.
@@imgursdownvote4love771 That doesn't do much for the people in Vancouver city, where the trams performed a transportation function (to/from Granville Island) rather than just being a museum ride as it is in Cloverdale.
@@trainstramstrolleystravel7692 The interurbans are in FAR too delicate condition to be used as a regular transit system. Further, they are primarily made of wood, which does not meet safety standards for today's transit. Let them enjoy their retirement as museum rides, where they are very well and lovingly maintained.
@@jppicur I am fully aware of that, having driven, been in, under and through these cars when they worked in the city. They were, however, a precursor to what could have been. The improvements made for 2010 could have led to the cars returning to the very light service they were used in up until 2008, with newer (not necessarily brand new) cars being used for more intensive public service. All this was thrown away by a city council that could not see past the end of the nearest bike lane.
Anything, literally anything that takes cars off the road is a good solution for Vancouver, the most traffic-congested city in Canada. You can compare a streetcar to a bus any day, but dedicated tracks will make for a faster ride, no matter what. I wouldn't trust the numbers Translink comes up with, they are a no-vision, no-idea, no future organization that doesn't care about Vancouverites or any human in the lower mainland. Vancouver is strangling itself with a 30 year lag on critical transportation infrastructure. We need a mass transit route to Stanley Park and the west end, down arbutus and connecting all the tourist spots in the city just makes sense. Comparing Vancouver to Dallas?? I expect a lot more out of you Mr. Lee.
@@buzzkillington3332 You do understand that Toronto has a subway system, suburban train system (GO), and a century old streetcar system along with the usual bus system, right? Greater Toronto is about 2.6 times the population of Greater Vancouver, so yes.. understandably there will be more congestion.
@@buzzkillington3332 I missed nothing; the vastly larger amount of cars still have to congregate on main arteries like the Don Valley Parkway, or the QEW, and there you will find congestion. The bigger the city, the more congestion you will find, just as Victoria will have less congestion than Vancouver.
Anything can be badly planned! People like streetcars/trams, they have a steady ride that buses and trolleybuses don’t. The Brussels tram is very elegant. Being on steel wheels on rails trams need less energy and they produce less particulates than vehicles with rubber tires/tyres on tarmac. In Europe tram systems are growing and they are popular.
Agree re tourism. I worked at Main snd Terminal in early 2000s. There was some kind of test run trsm line that ran from maybe granville Island to almost to Science World. This was circa 2002 so yes almost 18 yrs ago! About 1 yr before Vancouver wss even awarded the Olympics. Indy cars were still racing around Main and Terminal area 1x per yr for the Vancouver Indy
ten minute ride to market they ALREADY have subsidize homes. 10 workers for ten minute walk Vancouver you pretend to be number 1 use your waterways science world to davie to ambleside free up cars on bridge mass transit must include waterway what do you expect from planners,BUILD NEW SUBWAY SMALLER THAN THE ONE FROM 4O YEARS AGO IN A GROWING CITY( line to airport) almost obsolete 🤗🤗🤗 tiny PLATFORM? only in vancouver
this is a really great video, i’m glad i was recommended it. i’ve always visited this railroad when on granville island and have had a curiosity about why it was there abandoned for the last 5 years of me seeing it. i was 9 during the 2010 winter olympics so i had no idea why it was just sitting there in the middle of the city. i see why translink is against it but i also think it might be a good idea to reconsider since it’s been 15 years since that 2005 report. seattle has a monorail (similar to the vancouver skytrain) and it only had two stations, downtown seattle and the space needle, and every ride is $10. yet every time i’m in seattle there’s a massive line of tourists trying to get on just because of the view (& novelty). i get that as vancouverites we don’t really care about the skytrain after awhile of living in van but i feel like tourists might?? the city is so beautiful and as much as it wears off to us and just becomes a daily thing it could still be really cool to people who don’t get to take it every day. and same with the water taxis to granville island, they’re expensive but have a novelty. so maybe a street car should be looked at a bit more as an option?? idk that’s just my take on the whole thing. it’s kinda sad to see those tracks just sitting there when i feel like they have so much potential to be utilized
What I don’t get is why you say streetcars in Vancouver don’t make sense but they are so plentiful, useful and pleasant in Budapest, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Stockholm and almost any European city I can think of. (Yes, a long sentence)
Wtf, I was so confused at the beginning to see Brussels' streetcars. It's confusing to see them and know they're in a completely different continent at the same time.
Hey Uytae! How have you been? Miss you here in the 902. OH!! Lotsa planning agro here now! Halifax Transit has gotten better here now. At least outside rush hour.
Sure, it would be slower to connect Waterfront with Granville Island, but a transit network's strength is in its network. What about the Olympic Village to Granville Island? What about OV to downtown? I don't think this is necessarily about connecting waterfront with Granville Island, but rather about connecting it with the greater network. Expo line passengers going to Granville Island, for example. The water taxis serve this route now and that seems to be a viable business connecting Science World to Granville Island at $6 a pop.
If you want to look at some Vancouver/BC specific historical context on transportation modes that were run by BC specifically to spur tourism, you might want to look into the history of the British Columbia Steamship Lines, which continued to operate some of the CPR steamship network after they had decided to get out of the passenger ship business. While BC Steamship Lines was operating, BC ferries already existed - the difference was while BC Ferries was focused mostly on providing utilitarian transport solutions, BC Steamship Lines were explicitly tourist oriented (i.e. the Victoria to Seattle route).
Light Rail in Baltimore attracts few paying customers-students don't have to pay, deficits run around $40m a year. The subway line here is the only one in the world to have lost population along its route in the city. It also has few riders and many stations have no one collecting fares.
If they ever get a streetcar line down the arbutus corridor it could be extended along the existing railway along the Fraser river to new Westminster through the river district...or...failing that, maybe just put a streetcar along the Fraser on that existing track...it would link the Canada line at the foot of cambie street to the expo line in new Westminster
An often overlooked option is Bus Rapid Transit. Dedicated right of ways for buses just as streetcars have. In fact, BRT roads are usually designed with future light rail conversion. The cost of setting up a BRT is much lower than streetcars, and still has much of the benefits: dedicated roads reduce traffic and bumps, making for a faster and smoother ride.
The problem with dedicated busways is that they don't work very well. They take up far more (expensive) land, pollute unnecessarily and do not have nearly the capacity. Ask the City of Mississauga about the mistake they made deciding on a busway instead of a rail line.
I wish CBC would have more videos on the state of homelessness and lack of housing supply than what happened to a street car. Each night we have thousands of people going to sleep in shelters and on the street. It is our most pressing concern as a country. There are solutions and we need to talk about them.
Set up that remining Streetcar line as a small railway museum, have a few historic railway equipment stock and locomotives then boom problem solved. Plus, who says we cant gave two train museums in Vancouver?
The former Downtown Historic Railway moved to Cloverdale where it has a lot more track to use. Other than during COVID, it normally operates on Sundays during the summer season. See fvhrs.org/
The streetcar route is not just about getting to Granville Island. The full route from Stanley Park to at least Marpole would connect several areas to SkyTrain and to each other for which current connections are very awkward and slow.
Too bad Vancouver demolished all the BC electric railway lines back in the 20s to make way for cars and roads. Always imagined we would have a cool streetcar system if we kept all the lines.
@@HowlingWolf518 Yes, but trolleybuses and buses get stuck at stops unless there is a law (as there FINALLY is, now) to make motorists yield. Even then, buses cannot pull out if the roadway is already blocked beside them. Streetcars have more control of traffic, in part because the law states they cannot be passed when they are at a stop. This means they can take off to the next stop with less hindrance than most buses. The proposed system would use mostly dedicated right of way, which would be substantially faster with higher capacity than a bus system, even with bus lanes.
@@jppicur But the whole thing about streetcars is that they can't pass at all - if there's a problem (or they _are_ the problem, which is a recurring thing), they're stuck there for a couple hours until the blockage clears. And they've run the numbers and found that TSP only chops 5-10 minutes off the whole trip, so you'd more or less be buying a bus that's 3x more expensive than other buses and much clumsier. Sure, there's more capacity, but not much more than an artic. Yup, the Arbutus/downtown streetcar uses the old CP route. A route like that is basically metro-lite and objectively much better; that's not in question.
Translink is a prime example of a unproductive publicly funded private enterprise which has chosen to ignore the contributions LRT could make to the real needs of the populations and areas it is supposed to serve. LRT lines have been proposed for several areas around the lower mainland and could represent a positive intermediate interface between the skytrain system and buses.
Randall TheScandal LRT is a garbage system in every incarnation. If you are going to separate it from the roads, then you might as well build skytrain, if your going to throw it right in the centre of the street, it’s no faster than a bus. Plus, Vancouvers world class shitty driving is gonna lead to more accidents and deaths. Go look at Calgary and Edmonton, see how much they ‘love’ their LRT systems
The LRT in Calgary is fantastic! I prefer the ground level travel to the skytrain travel because it is similar to walking or driving in that you can see the areas and landmarks around me and that gives me a sense of security and control over where I am headed. Yes buses do that too, but there is more of an independent feel to LRT/streetcars compared to buses.
What about if it just ran from the new Arbutus/Broadway station down to the Main Street station via Granville Island? That seems like it would be a pretty cool and popular trip
Just today I took the train to olympic village and then had to walk through the rain to get to granville island right along side the very same tracks the olympic line ran on. It was taunting me. Srsly we should have a train to granville island, makes no sense that we dont given how popular of a destination it is. (heck we literally have tracks for it, put the train back on it!!!)
I live in steveston and once upon a time, before my time... before my parents time... possibly before my grandparents time... a little train went all the way from downtown to steveston
I don't know how old your grandparents are, but the Steveston line quit in the 1950s. Two of the Steveston route cars now run in Cloverdale at the fvhrs.org/
Cool video! Didn't know about this. Street cars do work but ideally need their own lane and not share with traffic. It's a bit of a mess here in Toronto with the King line that supposed to have it's own route vs Queen which shares. Either way, would be nice to see it done to serve those underservices areas as opposed to waiting 20 years to realize you should've done something in the past and then sitting on your thumbs doing nothing for another 20 years.
I'm from Portland and what I noticed about streetcars here was that they worked with city planners when building it. The reason being why it is so successful. The streetcar also doesn't cover much distance in cities which it has failed in such as Detroit, DC, and Atlanta where the streetcar failed. Streetcars can't be thrown into a city without preparation and development will magically happen. The city and the transit company must work together for the best.
It's also important that it has It's own right of way and traffic prioritization. There's no point in taking a streetcar of It's just going to be caught in the same traffic as your car, and not get you anywhere that much faster than driving or taking a bus.
We don't need more buses in Vancouver, especially when some routes are scheduled 20~30 mins per bus. Not mentioning that freeing up the road is going to a big help to other drivers and people who ride bikes around the city.
@@vrob7 As much as I wish skytrain to be the way to go, we know how difficult and slow the development of skytrain is. The rumors Marine Drive line that connects Cambie Station and New Westminster will probably need another ten years or more to finally start constructing.... T_T
SkyTrain is dead technology. Yes, a proper rapid transit system is needed, but NOT a low-capacity system like SkyTrain. The Canada Line is more to the point. However, rapid transit would be a waste on the route proposed for this streetcar line. It would be over-capacity. Much better to suit the system to the reasonably expected future requirements.
If my memory serves, the demonstration line pushed a heritage electric service out. Maybe they should try bringing that back, in the same vein as San Francisco’s E and F lines or Philadelphia’s Route 15 (which ironically lost its historic PCC cars for at least two years last week...) make it not just attractive to riders as a transportation option, but an attraction in and of itself. I can probably count on one hand the remaining major metro areas in North America without some form of light rail/Street Car servicing it. But not many have a historic element to it.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
What people forget is the " rail bonus" as we call it in Germany. A bus drives on the same road as a car, so drivers think " I could use my car as well" A streetcar on its own track means independence from traffic. And it adds to attractivity if you ride smoothly while passing traffic jams.
Great video. CBC Vancouver should push more UA-cam content like this. Much better for the medium and more engaging than just putting out the regular news clips directly from TV format. I hope the views and engagement will reflect that.
CBC should look at the feedback section and really listen to what people have to say about the topics too.
Agreed
Absolutely. Im in NYC and Im enjoying this video immensely.
i dont mean to be so off topic but does anybody know a trick to get back into an Instagram account??
I somehow forgot the password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me
@Jordy Uriel instablaster :)
It's an honour to share this video and it's so cool to read everyone's comments! Thanks again for letting me do this CBC.
Side note, I'm actually a pretty big fan of the Arbutus streetcar. I think it could be successful as long as the city rezoned properties adjacent to the line for higher density developments.
Also, streetcar, LRT, or tram? I'm still quite confused as to what the proper term is...
Fantastic video, thanks!
LRT is the current jargon term, intended by the oh-so-sensitive Politically Correct planners to eliminate any implications of "old-fashioned streetcars." In Canada, "streetcar" was and is the common term. Before being renamed as "transit" systems, most streetcar lines were "Street Railway" companies.
"Tram" is the British term, although it actually dates back to industrial railways of the 18th century, long before street railways!
The speed you quoted for streetcars assumes in-street running. On private right of way, streetcars are considerably faster. Although they would not go that fast in service, most streetcars since the streamlined PCC cars of the 1930s are capable 50-60 mph speeds. On private right of way, they can achieve much higher average speeds than you quote.
All Uytae Lee's video should be collected in one channel, I know About Here has most of them, but many of them are under CBC or CBC Sports, which makes viewers very hard to search and browse. Trust me it would bring About Here planty of viewers
@@jppicur There are light rail systems that are grade-separated, hence they would be LRT, but not streetcars.
It's definitely a very interesting topic. One thing it would be useful to consider with the comparison of bus and streetcar travel times is that we shouldn't assume people using the streetcar would be mainly going between those two destinations. Based on the graphic at 4:12, there may be about 11 stops on the streetcar including stops in some very dense areas in eastern downtown. Having the same origin and destination makes it easy to forget that they're totally different routes.
Streetcars and trolleys civilize cities, add some old world charm while making them future forward. Not every city is mentally ready for so much cool all at once.
TagusMan you are correct. While we have subways, LRT and traditional trams, our streetcars in Toronto are actually quite iconic. I notice tourists from Europe, Asia and the USA in particular who come here just to ride the trams and take photos and videos. Maybe not as iconic as the NYC subway, or London Routemaster buses, but something that I'm proud of. Vancouver is so beautiful...it's a perfect fit for trams.
Yes, this is true. Here in Hong Kong the Tram system is a HUGE draw for tourists and also locals because it's inexpensive and makes frequent stops. This is something that Translink "forgot" in their report, frequent stops encourages more ridership because there is a bigger catchment.
yup same goes here in Japan - was just in Nagasaki and rode the streetcars just cause i could amongst the "regular" riders who ride because that's how they get around. each car was different paint and so many styles all using same track
This comment is legit!
@@CanMav The main thing with North American cities I've notice is they choose buses because more people drive due to wanting a home with a lawn. Basically the 1950s nuclear family really took North Americans by storm to the point where I even want despite not liking single family zoning.
I love his low-key humor, haha. "Who makes that decision...GOD" baha
I almost fell off my couch when he slapped us with that one. it hit /just right/
He shouldn’t be making jokes about God
@@disneyplay4 Why?
@@disneyplay4 why not? Translink is god!!!
You shouldn't be a typical conservative trying to censor freedom of speech that doesn't affect you or anyone else.@@disneyplay4
let’s goooo more uytae lee!!
Yessssss thanks Jacob!
NO! We had him first here in Halifax!!! Come back to the Far East, Uytae!!
“Streetcars from the FUTURE also known as Brussels”
Ouiii! Toujours un beau jour où la STIB est reconnue ! La vraie gloire de Bruxelles ! /s
In spite of some serious issues, Toronto’s refusal to succumb to the big oil, auto and tire lobby of the 1920’s and 30”s meant that we retained what every big city had back then and what every big city wishes they had today. Red Rocket Baby.
Yess! 🚋🚃🚃🚃
Excited for the Waterfront expansion!
Toronto’s streetcars would be amazing if they had signal priority and had all their lanes becomes streetcar only
The irony of car-friendly Toronto getting something right.
He's missing a number of points entirely.
Comparing the #50 bus is a red herring.
The initial phase, operating between Science World and Granville Island, would connect SkyTrain, Canada Line, the #3 Main and the #15 Cambie, in addition to the #50 and the #84. This is especially good news for the people who live in the Southeast False Creek neighbourhoods.
That's not all: Science World attracts over 600,000 visitors annually, and Granville Island, over 10 million. Connecting those venues, plus all the restaurants, pubs, and entertainment venues along or near the route is a no-brainer. That's before we even consider the impact that tourism might have.
Entirely omitted was the issue of ridership generated by the Squamish Nation's plan for developing Senakw. Extending the streetcar toward Vanier Park opens up a potential catchment of more than 10,000 people.
Does a streetcar have to cost an arm and a leg? Nope. Much of the infrastructure is in place, to the extent that a fully functional service between Granville Island and Cambie would cost about $8 million, and completed through to Science World, about $25 million--complete with rolling stock.
For more information, have a look at the Facebook page "Friends of the Olympic Line / Vancouver Civic Railway."
Yup
SQUAMISH nation
must pay for own damn connection .
walk walk
what about free bikes
4 PEOPLE together
is considered FRIENDS
SO NOT PARAMOUNT TO ANYTHING
It does need to be faster than the buses though, otherwise it's mostly for the tourists and doesn't justify half a billion $$$. Even the Surrey streetcar was planned at 21 km/h.
Yes
You can literally take the 84
This was extremely trippy to watch as I've lived in both Vancouver and Brussels... So it took me forever to understand the trams were from another city, cause they looked so familiar! Trams are so user-friendly and approachable. I hope this somehow comes to fruition.
We loved the streetcar. Wish they kept it!
The Cities of Kitchener and Waterloo finished the ION Rapid Transit, an LRT, a year ago in June. The great thing they did with that is they increased ridership on the route that would go on to become the ION's tracks, pretty much ensuring use once the service went online. They did this by designating a central corridor to be the spine of the transit system along King Street, putting buses on that route and then also having additional buses supplementing said route. This way, they had a ready and willing ridership ahead of the creation of the ION and the transition to the trains was smooth and with relatively little headache.
Problem is, that isn’t how we would build it. We already have our backbones, skytrain, so LRT in Vancouver would end up more like Calgary or Edmonton, which is, well... not great
@@vrob7 Interesting. I was in Calgary last November and I thought the LRT there was great. What was I missing?
@@vrob7 LRT in calgary delivers pretty good service and has some of the highest ridership in the country
Running streetcar to GI seems like a waste (as you say), but carrying on down Arbutus, and out to Stanley Park ... that engages a lot of Vancouver.
That would be quite an awesome line. Not only that but the Canada Line is expected to have capacity issues in 10 years. The arbutus corridor streetcar would take some ridership off the Canada Line and offer relief
plus take pressure off #10 bus on Granville. Right now, #10 doesn't run that well and frequently not on time. Also Translink own the land at the bottom of Hudson Street already. It will be perfect for them.
@@robmausser The broadway line is 200m away, no point.
@@adanactnomew7085 The broadway line goes perpendicular to this planned streetcar... not even the same routing at all
@@robmausser I mean the part along false creek where the rail is already. For other part I think there is some potential
Ah yes my favorite part of living in vancouver, the unapologetically bipolar weather. Raining monday, snowing tuesday, sunshine wednesday, snow again thursday, and rain to top the week off.
Nah, it's not so bipolar at all actually. It has been raining for nearly ten days without sunny breaks, then we get maybe 20 hrs of no rain, a few hours of clear sky, and it rains for another two weeks again. That snow in the clip, was an exception that doesn't happen that often.... :P
Everybody says the same thing about their weather lol we are not special.
who cares
@Vital Mark yeah my girlfriend is from edmonton and says it's way more drastic out there.
Try Melbourne weather, four seasons and bushfires in one week, and its Summer here.
The streetcar goes through different areas of the city. If you have the infrastructure, you might as well use it to make those areas of the city more accessible.
I live in New Zealand why am I addicted to watching these videos?! They're so damn good!
I grew up in Vancouver, was a volunteer at the 2010 Olympics, rode those streetcars almost every day during that time, and now live in San Francisco. Every day I take the J-MUNI streetcar to my downtown job. It a superb service and Vancouver would greatly benefit from streetcars too.
like he said atthe end the service need to go where want to go for people to use it one thing these pro public transportation video do tell people is you are limited on how much you can carry
if you need to carry a weeks worth food they will not let you on
I use these exact trams every day in Brussels (lines 19 and 25), and they are indeed very comfortable (especially more comfortable than being in a traffic jam).
Two remarks; Firstly, cities in Europe tend to have much higher population densities than in North America (Vancouver 5500people/km² vs 7400people/km²), which makes mass transport more efficient in Europe almost by definition.
Second, also the STIB-MIVB (Brussels Transport) calculated that building 1km of metro costs the same as 10km of tramway. One option might look fancier than the other, but is not always the best choice
Dude these videos are amazing.
The weather changed made me laugh hard. It was perfect
If they’re similar times- build the streetcar and use the 50 busses for a new route or to ease congestion on another peak line
"God" ...*no, just kidding* ..."Translink"...... (no this is correct, right?)
Uytae Lee and Beulah Lee are awesome!
This guy is on cbc now? Good for u man u deserve it!!!!
Street cars are much more comfortable than buses and even sometimes better than the subway
The problem with transit in Vancouver and the rest of Canada is the profit motive. That Canada line was at capacity within months of being opened. This is exactly what Translink would want. Building a larger capacity that we could grow in to and that went initially underutilized is the definition of waste that some bureaucrats or politicians head would roll for. When we think of transitioning to a green transportation system we have to think about an all of the above approach. When crime is high no one says we don't have money for police so why all this debate over pubic transportation spending.
I remember the streetcars more than Team Canada's hockey win.
I’ve been asking people about those tracks since I moved here in 2016. Awesome video! 👌
Absolutely loving the "About Here" Content on CBC's channel and its own. Please keep them coming!
Let's gooo!
Great video. Why is it assumed that a transit service must be run by TransLink? Couldn't Vancouver run its own service, like West Van does the Blue Bus? Is there something preventing this?
Answer is in the video: costs. $100 million to refurbish the Olympic Village to Granville Island line to handle permanent service (including maintenance facilities, streetcars we can keep, etc). This may seem small, but the full lines through city streets would be another order of magnitude more expensive. Large transit infrastructure projects requiring these sorts of dollars typically require more than just a city to finance it on its own (keep in mind the CoV has had to raise property taxes a lot this year for expenses already on the table, so I don't think it's ready to just hand over a couple hundred million dollars for a fancy streetcar).
As for what TransLink thinks, while I can't speak for them, I think it's not hard to see why they wouldn't see it as a priority or fitting with their moving-people mandate. Like, if a streetcar is supposed to be all about improving access Granville Island, that could be done just as well through the proposal to run an elevator connecting to bus stops on the Granville Bridge - a CoV project that would likely not require TransLink paying a cent.
Call me biased as a Surrey resident, but with the needs throughout the region especially in areas like Surrey and the Tri-cities that need more bus service, I wouldn't support regional transit money being redirected away from that and towards something like a streetcar in Vancouver that doesn't have clear benefits to the region.
Sooo
You're selfish and want for you and yours.
Why not just ask for a donkey
Sometimes I wonder why Vancouver endorses monopoly on so many things. (e.g. ICBC) Tokyo has metro run by different companies and it worked, so consider that the street car is leaning towards a more scenic option, perhaps it can indeed be run by a company that have better focus on tourism instead of a mass transportation company
Noxid C The San Francisco Bay Area has 27 different transit systems. It was only a decade ago or so that the 3 main systems started using the same payment system. But still no free transfers, synchronized schedules, etc. I wouldn’t mind them getting consolidated a bunch.
TransLink is part of the provincial transit system, as is the West Vancouver Blue Bus. Both live off subsidies from the federal, provincial and municipal governments. TransLink exists so that the entire Greater Vancouver Regional District has a coordinated transit system with one system of fares and transfers. Previously, transit was in the hands of private operators, especially in the outlying towns (BC Electric controlled the main system) and, other than BCE's routes, there was utter chaos.
The 50 is a North / South service, the streetcar would be an East / West. And giving Olympic Village access to a fun shopping area would brighten their prospects, as their hood is still pretty bleak, just the one grocery store. The rails are there.... not using them is wasting a lot of space that could otherwise be used for community gardens or other options.
Grow pot
fellow korean uytae is killing it for cbc vancity. be grateful cbc.
Great video, Uytae!! Always enjoy your work!
Streetcars would work better in the snow. Yes? Then again, how often do we get snow in Vancouver.
Not necessarily. Ice on the overhead wires can cause (usually brief) power interruptions or excessive sparking. It mostly depends on whether the cars are kept in service continuously, as in Toronto, so that ice cannot build up.
Yes, more Uytae Lee!
Good analysis. Even before the Olympic demonstration line, that line was used for heritage trolleys / streetcars; anyone remember that? That is what that line along south False Creek should be used for between Victoria Day and Labour Day. It was great back in the day, and it will be fun again in the future.
Amazing content, i love these docuseries!
Sydney used to have trams like Melbourne still has today. Both were built before electricity when construction cost was lower but for Sydney after the WW2 maintaining the tracks was costing so much that in the early 1960s trams were dug up from Sydney but Melbourne left them and continues to run most of the same routes. Sydney is now spending a HUGE amount of money to rebuild some of the trams in the CBD but its come with many delays in construction. These trams now are running much slower than the buses that ran before them.
The larger percentage of the track on a dedicated right of way (and closer to light rail) the better. One reason buses are disliked is because travel times and frequency can be really unreliable, particularly during rush hours because they have to wait in line like everyone else. BRT can be a solution but many BRT systems still have large sections in mixed traffic, and if you're going to run buses in their own lane for the vast majority of the route, well it's not going to cost a lot more to slap down some rails and OHL and run a tram or light rail vehicle.
I live in melbourne and went to Vancouver in sep 2019. i like the skytrain
My man. So pumped you got picked up by CBC. Keep it up!
Comparing the routes of bus 50 and the proposed streetcar line is like comparing apples and oranges. The real thing that should be looked at is, if we take the original Granville Island to Waterfront station proposal, whether or not there's demand for passenger traffic from Granville island and Waterfront to Eastside, China town and Science World. The 2 routes might start and end in the same places but have vastly different routes and as such, vastly different passenger groups. As such there might be demand for traffic from Granville Island to Eastside, or from Waterfront to Science World, and those groups of passengers who won't be going the full length of the line but instead ride along sections of it to get where they need to go would be the key to it's viability.
I enjoyed watching this. Shout-out to the TTC streetcars.
So that is why when i was walking towards Granville Island i saw tracks on the road and some abandoned station
Technically, this is more of a LRT system than a streetcar. Also, what's with snow in Vancouver?
The temperature doesn't stay cold enough for snow for that long. We've had snow 2 times this season that I've noticed.
LOL. Everybody calls it a street car without ever releasing exactly how is it a street car. Is it a street or is it a car? A street is a street but a car is a what, a tram, a trolley, a cart, what is it? Stupid name that makes no sense, street car... which is? In UK and other English speaking nations it is called a tram. But in Yankeeland, it is called a street car, as if it is a street car which is a car that travels on a street, but not a Tram unless tracks are laid on a street like tram tracks. Just like the other bullshit, railroad, which it even stupider, as if the rail tracks are on a road. The question is, how do railways become rail roads when road is for cars and rails for train. Confusing as f.
@@mickcarson8504 "Car" is a generic term for vehicles used on railways long before the automobile was invented. Streetcar (one word) is the correct term in North America and has been since the 1860s.
@@jppicur
No, car is short for carriage, long before trains existed. A carriage was a 4 wheeled horse drawn vehicle used to carry people and anything after the horse drawn vehicles retained the carriage name long before the actual first road vehicles, and those were the carriage pulled on rail tracks by a steam locomotive. The carriages were mainly used to transport people at first. Then came the rail goods carriages, also pulled by a steam locomotive. Then cars first appeared, they were used to carry people and the name carriage was not caught yet as they were known a vehicles. Up until the vehicles were designed to carry passengers at the back that they known as motor carriages. But to avoid the confusion with the rail carriages, they simply adapted a name that distinguished the difference from a rail carriage and road motor carriage they named the motor carriage as car for short. Over time the road vehicle became known as car but many others also called it a motorcar or motor vehicle, or a more respectable way of calling it is automobile.
@@mickcarson8504 Yes, "car" is short for carriage. The rest of your explanation is incomprehensible.
Uytae! I bet you’ll never see this, but we met once at the Halifax public library on Spring Garden. I told you how much I loved PlaniFax as we were waiting for our coffee. I’m so happy to see you’re still doing your thing! You’re going to be a famous Canadian broadcaster one day.
I'm a Vancouver transplant living in Dallas for the past twelve years. The streetcar here isn't doing well because the line is very short and the city seems determined to kill it from day one. We have the DART trading that goes throughout the metroplex and has great ridership. There's also a heritage streetcar line which runs restored historic streetcars including a PCC from Toronto and ridership is very high
Comparing Dallas to Vancouver is also a bit of an apples to oranges thing; Dallas is a more spread-out city than any of the Van-area distances described in the video. There's also the question of the effect of car culture in America, which tends to make them begrudging of public transit in many areas. There's some of that here as well, but I don't think it's quite coming from the same place. So a streetcar solution could actually work a lot better here than it would in other cities.
we car people are not against public transportation we are against people that want to force use it
I still don't get it. If the tracks are already there, basically everything out of the way and infrastructure in place, wouldn't the cost be so minimal that it's a no brainer? I mean, how could it hurt? Wouldn't it just be a bonus? Everything helps, right? I'd take it over the bus, even though it's slightly longer.
CAUSE effective
bad enough you PEOPLE ruin my train tracks
ARBUTUS is not BIke motOWAY..
NOT A FREE WAY
THIS SUMMER
YOU WILL ALL SLOW DOWN.
RUNNING OVER ,OLDE LADY MILLICENT YOU DELINQUENT RIDERS
MUST BE STOP
Tracks are just a small part of the puzzle. You would also need permanent maintenance buildings, staff, and storage tracks - items of great expense that probably weren't necessary for a borrowed demonstration streetcar meant to be here for just 60 days. Such facilities would likely also have to be built to support a much bigger streetcar system and not just the short spur, and this would require a significant upfront investment on expensive downtown Vancouver land.
If you ask me, the Arbutus LRT proposal has more potential despite old tracks being torn out. Maintenance facility land would not only be less expensive at the end of the line in Marpole, but such a maintenance yard could probably be Incorporated into the existing TransLink facilities in the area. That streetcar line could then be extended into downtown later on.
@@daisukiman Hmmmm. Interesting. Yeah, bottom line is that the city and even Metro area are in desperate need of A LOT more transit, specifically fast/efficient options like LRT/train whatever. They're certainly attaining their goals at making it more difficult for drivers with cars, but completely failing at providing that solution, better transit, reliable and efficient transit. The demand is certainly there.
Wtf
Prior to the Olympic Line, a group of volunteers used the old tracks to provide a heritage service on weekends between Science World and Granville Island. It was a nice ride and people used to like to make a circle trip, one way by genuine vintage trams (dating from 1907 and 1913, and having been used in the Vancouver area up to 1958). The city made a relatively small financial contribution to support the service. Given that parking on weekends on Granville Island is horrific, and that many people were either unaware of the existence of, or unwilling to ride on, a diesel bus, the trams provided a valuable service.
When the line was renovated for the Olympics, the volunteer group was thrown out without so much as a thank you from the city politicians. (Note: that renovation cost $8 million, for two weeks' service, and remember, there is only one taxpayer.) One of the issues was that while Suzanne Anton endorsed the streetcar idea as part of her platform when running for mayor, her opponent took the contrary position, and as Mayor Moonbeam returned victorious, the volunteers were never invited back. Geoff Meggs had a hand in killing the volunteer service; presumably it didn't fit his vision of all of us riding around on bicycles. The heritage cars have now been removed from the city, never to return, even though dozens of progressive cities around the world manage to find room for heritage cars on their regular streetcar tracks on weekends and holidays. The overhead power lines have been stolen by metal thieves who would likely take the rails too if they could get away with it.
The City of Vancouver is quick to demand, and slow to pay, when it comes to public transportation, a habit which it got into in 1890 when the first streetcar system started to run, and has never fully anted up its share of the cost of providing public transit in this city, be it bus, train, ferry or whathaveyou.
Finally, I take issue with the examples presented of "failed" streetcar systems. While they are not a panacea, streetcars have their place in cities with well developed transit habits - places where there is a mature transit system and many people routinely ride transit. Look at the successes of places like Portland, Seattle ... and OMG Tacoma! Never mind Dallas, Detroit or Atlanta, where transit ridership is poor due to bad urban design and poor public perception of the local transit systems.
"Removed from the city"
They run 30 km away
@@imgursdownvote4love771 That doesn't do much for the people in Vancouver city, where the trams performed a transportation function (to/from Granville Island) rather than just being a museum ride as it is in Cloverdale.
@@trainstramstrolleystravel7692 The interurbans are in FAR too delicate condition to be used as a regular transit system. Further, they are primarily made of wood, which does not meet safety standards for today's transit. Let them enjoy their retirement as museum rides, where they are very well and lovingly maintained.
@@jppicur I am fully aware of that, having driven, been in, under and through these cars when they worked in the city. They were, however, a precursor to what could have been. The improvements made for 2010 could have led to the cars returning to the very light service they were used in up until 2008, with newer (not necessarily brand new) cars being used for more intensive public service. All this was thrown away by a city council that could not see past the end of the nearest bike lane.
@@trainstramstrolleystravel7692 I agree with you.
Anything, literally anything that takes cars off the road is a good solution for Vancouver, the most traffic-congested city in Canada. You can compare a streetcar to a bus any day, but dedicated tracks will make for a faster ride, no matter what. I wouldn't trust the numbers Translink comes up with, they are a no-vision, no-idea, no future organization that doesn't care about Vancouverites or any human in the lower mainland. Vancouver is strangling itself with a 30 year lag on critical transportation infrastructure. We need a mass transit route to Stanley Park and the west end, down arbutus and connecting all the tourist spots in the city just makes sense. Comparing Vancouver to Dallas?? I expect a lot more out of you Mr. Lee.
You been to Toronto? lol
Toronto and many US cities are much more congested
@@buzzkillington3332 You do understand that Toronto has a subway system, suburban train system (GO), and a century old streetcar system along with the usual bus system, right? Greater Toronto is about 2.6 times the population of Greater Vancouver, so yes.. understandably there will be more congestion.
@@bobbbxxx spread over a significantly larger land size with lower density which you seem to have completely missdd
@@buzzkillington3332 I missed nothing; the vastly larger amount of cars still have to congregate on main arteries like the Don Valley Parkway, or the QEW, and there you will find congestion. The bigger the city, the more congestion you will find, just as Victoria will have less congestion than Vancouver.
Anything can be badly planned! People like streetcars/trams, they have a steady ride that buses and trolleybuses don’t. The Brussels tram is very elegant. Being on steel wheels on rails trams need less energy and they produce less particulates than vehicles with rubber tires/tyres on tarmac. In Europe tram systems are growing and they are popular.
Agree re tourism. I worked at Main snd Terminal in early 2000s. There was some kind of test run trsm line that ran from maybe granville Island to almost to Science World. This was circa 2002 so yes almost 18 yrs ago! About 1 yr before Vancouver wss even awarded the Olympics. Indy cars were still racing around Main and Terminal area 1x per yr for the Vancouver Indy
Fuel efficiency of the 50 bus on that route vs of a streetcar on the planned line?
Brought up failed systems, why not model off popular successes?
ten minute ride to market
they ALREADY have subsidize homes.
10 workers for ten minute walk
Vancouver
you pretend to be number 1
use your waterways
science world
to davie to ambleside
free up cars on bridge
mass transit must include waterway
what do you expect from planners,BUILD NEW SUBWAY SMALLER
THAN THE ONE FROM 4O YEARS AGO
IN A GROWING CITY( line to airport) almost obsolete 🤗🤗🤗
tiny PLATFORM?
only in vancouver
this is a really great video, i’m glad i was recommended it. i’ve always visited this railroad when on granville island and have had a curiosity about why it was there abandoned for the last 5 years of me seeing it. i was 9 during the 2010 winter olympics so i had no idea why it was just sitting there in the middle of the city.
i see why translink is against it but i also think it might be a good idea to reconsider since it’s been 15 years since that 2005 report.
seattle has a monorail (similar to the vancouver skytrain) and it only had two stations, downtown seattle and the space needle, and every ride is $10. yet every time i’m in seattle there’s a massive line of tourists trying to get on just because of the view (& novelty).
i get that as vancouverites we don’t really care about the skytrain after awhile of living in van but i feel like tourists might?? the city is so beautiful and as much as it wears off to us and just becomes a daily thing it could still be really cool to people who don’t get to take it every day.
and same with the water taxis to granville island, they’re expensive but have a novelty. so maybe a street car should be looked at a bit more as an option??
idk that’s just my take on the whole thing. it’s kinda sad to see those tracks just sitting there when i feel like they have so much potential to be utilized
Good balanced presentation.
on a car-free section why would it go so slow??
You make an essential point -- it wouldn't. On private/dedicated right of way streetcars can, and do, hum right along.
Yes the new one in Copenhagen can go 70 km/h and get an average speed with stops at 30 km/t
But lighter rail at 100 or 120 km/h are also options here.
This Editing style reminds me of jay foreman and unfinished London somewhat, very good stuff though.
I think the producer of this video has a youtube channel with videos similar to this and the channels you have listed
This is actually the highest compliment, I LOVE Jay Foreman.
@@AboutHere ^^^^ this is the channel I was talking about
What I don’t get is why you say streetcars in Vancouver don’t make sense but they are so plentiful, useful and pleasant in Budapest, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Stockholm and almost any European city I can think of. (Yes, a long sentence)
Nice vídeo! So informative. I’m not from here, and I leram a lot with this channel.
11 minutes on a good day.
And a novality of a street car is fun
I love these shorts from Uytae, there actually so informative. Moar moar prease.
Wtf, I was so confused at the beginning to see Brussels' streetcars. It's confusing to see them and know they're in a completely different continent at the same time.
This was great!
Great video Uytae, would love to see you do one on the insane management failure of ICBC that all BC residents are now paying for.
Hey Uytae! How have you been? Miss you here in the 902. OH!! Lotsa planning agro here now! Halifax Transit has gotten better here now. At least outside rush hour.
Sure, it would be slower to connect Waterfront with Granville Island, but a transit network's strength is in its network. What about the Olympic Village to Granville Island? What about OV to downtown? I don't think this is necessarily about connecting waterfront with Granville Island, but rather about connecting it with the greater network. Expo line passengers going to Granville Island, for example. The water taxis serve this route now and that seems to be a viable business connecting Science World to Granville Island at $6 a pop.
If you want to look at some Vancouver/BC specific historical context on transportation modes that were run by BC specifically to spur tourism, you might want to look into the history of the British Columbia Steamship Lines, which continued to operate some of the CPR steamship network after they had decided to get out of the passenger ship business. While BC Steamship Lines was operating, BC ferries already existed - the difference was while BC Ferries was focused mostly on providing utilitarian transport solutions, BC Steamship Lines were explicitly tourist oriented (i.e. the Victoria to Seattle route).
Light Rail in Baltimore attracts few paying customers-students don't have to pay, deficits run around $40m a year. The subway line here is the only one in the world to have lost population along its route in the city. It also has few riders and many stations have no one collecting fares.
If they ever get a streetcar line down the arbutus corridor it could be extended along the existing railway along the Fraser river to new Westminster through the river district...or...failing that, maybe just put a streetcar along the Fraser on that existing track...it would link the Canada line at the foot of cambie street to the expo line in new Westminster
An often overlooked option is Bus Rapid Transit. Dedicated right of ways for buses just as streetcars have. In fact, BRT roads are usually designed with future light rail conversion. The cost of setting up a BRT is much lower than streetcars, and still has much of the benefits: dedicated roads reduce traffic and bumps, making for a faster and smoother ride.
The problem with dedicated busways is that they don't work very well. They take up far more (expensive) land, pollute unnecessarily and do not have nearly the capacity. Ask the City of Mississauga about the mistake they made deciding on a busway instead of a rail line.
I wish CBC would have more videos on the state of homelessness and lack of housing supply than what happened to a street car. Each night we have thousands of people going to sleep in shelters and on the street. It is our most pressing concern as a country. There are solutions and we need to talk about them.
Set up that remining Streetcar line as a small railway museum, have a few historic railway equipment stock and locomotives then boom problem solved. Plus, who says we cant gave two train museums in Vancouver?
There was a group operating a few historic street cars along that route, but they didn't resume after the Olympics test line thing.
Really? That's cool! What caused them to stop operating there?
TRAMS has been played with a small budget and even smaller storage space since they were kicked out of VTC
The former Downtown Historic Railway moved to Cloverdale where it has a lot more track to use. Other than during COVID, it normally operates on Sundays during the summer season. See fvhrs.org/
The streetcar route is not just about getting to Granville Island. The full route from Stanley Park to at least Marpole would connect several areas to SkyTrain and to each other for which current connections are very awkward and slow.
Too bad Vancouver demolished all the BC electric railway lines back in the 20s to make way for cars and roads. Always imagined we would have a cool streetcar system if we kept all the lines.
Not all of it. The legacy track is still there in a lot of places.
The trolley buses basically do what the streetcars were doing - and even better, because they can switch lanes.
That was 109 years ago.
Get the duck over it
@@HowlingWolf518 Yes, but trolleybuses and buses get stuck at stops unless there is a law (as there FINALLY is, now) to make motorists yield. Even then, buses cannot pull out if the roadway is already blocked beside them. Streetcars have more control of traffic, in part because the law states they cannot be passed when they are at a stop. This means they can take off to the next stop with less hindrance than most buses.
The proposed system would use mostly dedicated right of way, which would be substantially faster with higher capacity than a bus system, even with bus lanes.
@@jppicur But the whole thing about streetcars is that they can't pass at all - if there's a problem (or they _are_ the problem, which is a recurring thing), they're stuck there for a couple hours until the blockage clears. And they've run the numbers and found that TSP only chops 5-10 minutes off the whole trip, so you'd more or less be buying a bus that's 3x more expensive than other buses and much clumsier. Sure, there's more capacity, but not much more than an artic.
Yup, the Arbutus/downtown streetcar uses the old CP route. A route like that is basically metro-lite and objectively much better; that's not in question.
It will be appreciated if you did an item on the Rupert and Renfrew Station Area Plan . Tks,
Full spectrum lighting on public transport.
“Just 102 million”. What a steal!
Translink is a prime example of a unproductive publicly funded private enterprise which has chosen to ignore the contributions LRT could make to the real needs of the populations and areas it is supposed to serve.
LRT lines have been proposed for several areas around the lower mainland and could represent a positive intermediate interface between the skytrain system and buses.
Randall TheScandal LRT is a garbage system in every incarnation. If you are going to separate it from the roads, then you might as well build skytrain, if your going to throw it right in the centre of the street, it’s no faster than a bus. Plus, Vancouvers world class shitty driving is gonna lead to more accidents and deaths. Go look at Calgary and Edmonton, see how much they ‘love’ their LRT systems
The LRT in Calgary is fantastic! I prefer the ground level travel to the skytrain travel because it is similar to walking or driving in that you can see the areas and landmarks around me and that gives me a sense of security and control over where I am headed. Yes buses do that too, but there is more of an independent feel to LRT/streetcars compared to buses.
@cbcvancouver can you make a playlist on your channel that contains all of @abouthere videos he's done for you?
"The more we risk building a transit service... that's just bells and whistles":
Hello, Seattle Streetcar.
Come and visit us in Victoria and do a video about our dysfunctional regional transportation service.
@@jetstream6389 Instead we spend almost $100M on a new road junction (it involved blasting solid rock to lower the road by 30 feet).
those street cars look familiar
Wow this is really good, and fresh, i wanna see more of him
I would love to see this streetcar line from Stanley Park all the way to Steveston.
What about if it just ran from the new Arbutus/Broadway station down to the Main Street station via Granville Island? That seems like it would be a pretty cool and popular trip
This guy Lee used to be a fixture on the Halifax videos by the Coast
Just today I took the train to olympic village and then had to walk through the rain to get to granville island right along side the very same tracks the olympic line ran on. It was taunting me. Srsly we should have a train to granville island, makes no sense that we dont given how popular of a destination it is. (heck we literally have tracks for it, put the train back on it!!!)
I live in steveston and once upon a time, before my time... before my parents time... possibly before my grandparents time... a little train went all the way from downtown to steveston
I don't know how old your grandparents are, but the Steveston line quit in the 1950s. Two of the Steveston route cars now run in Cloverdale at the fvhrs.org/
Cool video! Didn't know about this.
Street cars do work but ideally need their own lane and not share with traffic. It's a bit of a mess here in Toronto with the King line that supposed to have it's own route vs Queen which shares.
Either way, would be nice to see it done to serve those underservices areas as opposed to waiting 20 years to realize you should've done something in the past and then sitting on your thumbs doing nothing for another 20 years.
Yeah I wish they had kept them
More local content like this CBC please
0:12 - And, oh yeah...QUATCHI! Yesssssssssssss
I'm from Portland and what I noticed about streetcars here was that they worked with city planners when building it. The reason being why it is so successful. The streetcar also doesn't cover much distance in cities which it has failed in such as Detroit, DC, and Atlanta where the streetcar failed. Streetcars can't be thrown into a city without preparation and development will magically happen. The city and the transit company must work together for the best.
It's also important that it has It's own right of way and traffic prioritization. There's no point in taking a streetcar of It's just going to be caught in the same traffic as your car, and not get you anywhere that much faster than driving or taking a bus.
We don't need more buses in Vancouver, especially when some routes are scheduled 20~30 mins per bus. Not mentioning that freeing up the road is going to a big help to other drivers and people who ride bikes around the city.
This LRT line in full, would only bring reduction to service on the 16, and 50. If you really want to free up road space, skytrain is the way to go
@@vrob7 As much as I wish skytrain to be the way to go, we know how difficult and slow the development of skytrain is. The rumors Marine Drive line that connects Cambie Station and New Westminster will probably need another ten years or more to finally start constructing.... T_T
SkyTrain is dead technology. Yes, a proper rapid transit system is needed, but NOT a low-capacity system like SkyTrain. The Canada Line is more to the point.
However, rapid transit would be a waste on the route proposed for this streetcar line. It would be over-capacity. Much better to suit the system to the reasonably expected future requirements.
I like your all vedio 👍
If my memory serves, the demonstration line pushed a heritage electric service out.
Maybe they should try bringing that back, in the same vein as San Francisco’s E and F lines or Philadelphia’s Route 15 (which ironically lost its historic PCC cars for at least two years last week...) make it not just attractive to riders as a transportation option, but an attraction in and of itself.
I can probably count on one hand the remaining major metro areas in North America without some form of light rail/Street Car servicing it.
But not many have a historic element to it.
While the streetcar may be slower than the #50 bus, it does connect with a lot more destinations.