to get EDH up and playing like arena they could just use the cards from arena that are available and players work from the current list on and maybe later start adding the older cards.
Why should anyone be surprised if WOTC shuts down Arena for a new client with your cards not transferring over? Anyone remember Magic Duels from 8 years ago? History repeats itself
it is a Hasbro thing, almost all entertainment for kids are now moving to digital. They are forcing everything they own to at least try and start moving to digital. At the very least they are bow back pedalling a little bit on paper magic.
I play arena all the time. I just dont pay for anything. If they shut it down im out nothing. I have my cardboard as well so they cant take that away.@tcgmetaslayer4202
The idea was to have multiple clients linked to a central collection, but Arena was successful financially and shaky program wise they decided to just stick with it.
I'm highly skeptical that Arena will die anytime soon! A new Commander client will be tremendously risky for all the reasons you mentioned. Arena will only be headed out the door after they've successfully delivered this new Commander version and effectively duplicated the other formats from Arena. And there's no way they'll allow you to bring your cards over from Arena! Did they ever allow that in any other digital MTG game over the past 20+ years?
It sucks that we can't get the free cards when we play prerelease in Southeast Asia and we need to pay more to play it online. Tsk. I just hope that accounts can be synchronized with what we have in outlr collection once this commander focused game starts.
MTGO is better than Arena anyway, so if Arena dies i really dont care, if i wanna play Magic id rather get as close to the full paper experience as i can...thats called MTGO
Since they board-wiped the rules committee they can now make this. They have full control over the rules so they dont have to answer to anyone if they want to update the rules or the app. Get ready for AlchemyDH
2000 IQ WOTC??????? LOL WOTC said they won't reprint the reserve list cards...However they just sell the digital version of the card LOL "it is not a reprint" WOTC says XD lololololol
It is 100% not the end of magic arena. Not everyone wants to play commander. Also, commander online with no voice communication with random people honestly just sounds like a terrible time
I agree with you 100%. The best part of commander is the human interaction with friends lol online commander will be crap. Just sit around waiting for 3 turns instead of one. Wow. Fun
Does WOTC know not everyone wants to play commander? I cannot separate UB from commander in my mind. I look at those sets and just think that they aren't for me. Frankly I think online commander with strangers will be the worst aspects of commander with none of the social stuff.
I was sent a personal survey by WOTC then a followup email from that survey, and among the things I was asked about arena and and paper was what my thoughts on alchemy were and I actually gave close to thirty screen shots of alchemy glitches or unfair gameplay. Every single screen shot once I sent to the person who contacted me via email they could immediately tell where each of the glitches were and they apologized and then said that they didn't know that they were having so many problems.
Cockatrice & Tabletop Simulator seem to do just fine with 4 players playing 2024 MTG. That being said, WotC will still fuck it up for at least the first 6 months.
Those are simply table simulators that have basic card drawing/playing/placement features and you just enforce the rules and game mechanics on your own?
@@dhLotan Yes, but in this age of proliferated A.I. chatbots, stringing together complex if>then statements on a card game gui shouldn't be as hard as MTG video games make it seem.
Or before the players 5-6th turn an increasing time ban (1 min 1st concede, 2 min 2nd concede, 3 min third concede, etc) or decreased rating for "sportmanship" so as a fair player you will see them less and if the conceding player want to increase their rating they have to first decrease their negative rating. The bot can work. That is just passing until its the bots turn and then dropout (including the above penalties)
Talk about beating a dead horse. Traditional magic is dead, and WOTC is just exploiting the entrenched players and the newbies. Glad I sold out years ago. Proxy cubes, y'all
I am going to be very dissapointed if my arena stuff doesnt transfer over. Ive been on arena for years and if I have to start over with my card collection its going to be a big hit to morale on top of all the other greedy stuff
And the same thing will eventually happen to this online commander client. It will eventually get discontinued in favour of a new version. Which is even more ironic since Commander is supposed to be an eternal format, but online Commander clearly will not. Your physical cards will outlast this software. (Although I guess there might eventually be a pirate version where you get all the cards for free, but does that really count?)
They should switch to a subscription model for multiplayer. Give everyone access to all the cards as long as they faithfully pay up every month. With proxies being on the rise in paper Magic, it would be the smart move. Subs are popular, inexpensive, and a small financial hurdle to access does wonders for the culture of players within a game.
I highly doubt they couldn't get it to work in arena. I'm positive they want another us to have another app to buy all the cards we already have in Arena....
I program software for a living. It might actually impractical. Although I guarantee it would be easy to share collections. Don't if they don't share collections that was an intentional choice.
Online multiplayer commander is one of the things which could kill commander. You'll be outside of a friendly pod and in a pool of nameless faceless players. People are going to very quickly learn about the meta. If they have chat people will be jerks. If they don't have chat you lose all the social aspects that makes commander fun. I just see this as having all the worst part of commander with none of the upsides.
I don't get why they don't just fully update MTGO and make it the one program to use. There's literally nothing this new program is doing that MTGO hasn't been doing for decades now. Yeah its not as flashy but neither is actual IRL paper magic. It's not like you get animations and flourishes when you're playing with real cards, you don't really need any of that. MTGO has just about every format you could think of and it already has over 90% of the cards available IRL. It doesn't have a "hell queue", you get to choose who you're playing against. It doesn't have a fixed shuffler, there's more variety in decks and its WAY cheaper than anyone actually thinks. It's always been better than Arena in every way and it'll probably better than whatever this new thing is as well.
@@williamdrum9899 Why though? Like is it strictly from like a marketing kinda thing where it just appeals to newer players who like to see flashy animations and what not?
@GellyVelly have you ever played an old school text RPG, like black screen and text? It's hard to get people interested and harder to keep them if it's boring and not pretty. Visuals make the game feel like it's progressing and what you are doing has an impact
@@paulwarner7508 I mean I get ya to an extent but....this is magic. Again, when you're playing with friends IRL you just see cards and it's fine. If people are looking to play MTG online, MTGO offers that. If you're looking for a fancy, colourful RPG you can play Dragon Quest or whatever.
The games are gonna be so long since every player will need to pass priority all the time 👀 with this i see people scooping every single game just because of game length.
Four players going full control and having responses to responses to responses, and four different players trying to get different sort of server breaking infinites. Yeah, this thing is probably doomed if Arena can barely hold on to dear life with all the times I've seen people crash the game through different means.
16:20 simple solution: treat the player (in each other player's perspective and game state) as if on the board until the Stack is empty and the phase has changed. 21:45 they could implement a "non strictly following the rules, just go on and if you want priority then create an _ask instance_ where priority gets passed" The levels of requirements of both synchronicity and backtracking possibilities are SO HIGH that I, as a Computer Scientist and developer, am freezingly shivering at the idea of the *sea of possible bugs* ... more than _Scutesworms_ !
As someone who only plays commander, having arena commander would be cool as long as i can copy my irl decks card for card. Also i hope it comes to consoles, not enough mtg games on console. Yugioh has duel links, why cant mtg have something similar?
The irony of all of this is that the first game of Magic I played in over a decade was a game of commander on MTGO. The game was 2 hours in and we were all still 25-30 life. Someone used a card that triggered like 50 times at the slowest pace ever. I quit and told myself paper was the only way. Never looked back.
That, or switch to a subscription model. At least for the Commander part of whatever client will be the future of online MTG. With the money I have sunk into paper Magic, I cannot be arsed to build another collection digitally. But paying about 10 to 15 $/€ per month to be able to build decks and play is a deal I could get behind. We'd not pay for digital cards we can never really own anyway, but for the play experience. And maybe the game codes from paper events and booster boxes could be for some play time instead of cards.
1) conceding should be sorcery speed only if they time out 2) The rope for sorcery speed should be a lot longer than instant speed. 3) Deck weight = helpful?! + revised 4) Formally recognize cEDH + introduce cEDH events?
I don't think MTGA will go away that quickly. Also, there are enough suckers for competitive 1-on-1 formats. Making a separate client for Commander is pretty bad. Not going to start collection over again. And they have to start over with implementing cards if they mismanage to make the implementation usable in the other client. I certainly wouldn't spend money for anything digital MTG.
Sounds like priority would be the same as in 1v1, you need to set it to manual if you want to avoid your opponent(s) from gaining information which will slow down gameplay considerably.
They could also modify Cockatrice, which is open-source, and adapt it to include monetization features. All relevant issues have already been addressed on that platform.
Commander is a social, in person format, mostly with friends. Multi-player broadly is something you do with friends with the interaction being more important than the game in some ways. Going on-line eliminates the social aspect and with it, the basic attractiveness of Commander. People say they want Commander on-line but will likely be less enthised by what that means for the game. Maybe Commander just needs to be a subscription service. You get all the cards and make whatever deck you want. They get their money and if the site grows they make more
Had the same idea, subscription is the way to go. I'd be immediately in on that, just to have playground for building and testing decks on a convenient client before I make the effort of creating a paper deck.The only problem with that idea is that at each junction where the Arena team had to make a choice between corporate greed and goodies for the players, they always went down the greedy route. I cannot see them embracing the law of large numbers now instead of milking the whales, as they always have.
Seems like an opportunity to update the client and game engine. Allow players to use existing library they own. This new engine could be a planned new engine that supports multiple formats.
Maybe its simply Precon only. No actual collection to change the decks. That way WotC can balance these decks as they feel fit and sell full decks for big money and keep doing so.
That sounds like it'd be the worst way to do it. A big part of the fun of Commander is deck building. And people like making cool decks that involve self-expression.
@@MunchKING Yea and they would need to pay for each deck and if they want to change the decks, they need to pay for paper or play in Arena. If you give them all the options in one platform, they wont spend double or triple the money. WotC will for sure find the worst possible solution for customers, that you can be sure of.
Hopefully it runs better. On arena if you try to use ramp and draw an extra land the client takes forever to bring your deck up. By the time it comes up your timer runs out.
i feel like the only way of having a commander game like areana is having the fancy effects, but have it function more like cockatrice or tabletop sim. but that would mean you NEED to have social features and have vocal interactions, which we all know what happens when you get a bunch of strangers on the internet. i can't see this happening at all.
On the other hand, the ability to play a full game of Commander on demand may be enough for some people to opt in, even if the client will be little clunky. The people that really need the social features can deploy them via 3rd party programs like discord.
That was the reason I dropped out of Arena as a paper player already. Took a break, ended up being longer than expected, when I came back I was just so far behind. I also did not want to spend any money on it as I play paper. I keep meaning to get back into it, just have not. This sounds pretty fun actually, they should have a Slay the Spire type game mode!
You’re right that WotC probably thinks* they can sell us the same pixels on both clients & some will. In truth, if players’ collections do carry over, it would increase sales far more as players view each purchase as having twice the value. Similar to how players go to prereleases for the code, they view it as getting double value & as far as WotC should* be concerned, it costs them nothing & pulls in more profit. Frankly, I believe WotC’s lack of business sense comes from hiring based on politics instead of real qualification & merit.
I was informed that MTGO already supports Commander, so I assume all related questions and concerns have already been addressed and resolved. Additionally, people play Commander online using platforms like Cockatrice, and such tools have become an integral part of the experience. When you start a game, you're already familiar with these aspects, and everything functions smoothly as it is. I don't believe this new client will handle these matters any better or worse than they have been handled so far.
The issue with a online commander setup is that basically wizards has to say okay everything except for x cards usually high value ones are on the site free do you think wizards is actually going to do that because if they don't the game doesn't work
sir Magic Historian! Have you ever seen a 73 thousand power hydra? I go the mossborn hydra to that range today ! Got a video of a crazy game !!! this is the potential i knew this card had! Moss born GOD of hydras
I really like playing Commander but it will be a BIG online mess. I can play Commander with family and friends using an overhead camera with my laptop. I don't have to deal with Wizards. Thank you for the video Magic Historian.
If they succeed in creating a digital commander client, adding all the other paper clients will be really easy. That would easily kill arena if they think they'll make more money from people rebuying their old cards.
So, I’ve only seriously played MTG in Arena. Do people seriously keep playing if they get land screwed/flooded? There is no point in playing if you totally get messed up lands.
A commander online would be perfect for me and some of my friends, all of us married and with kids. Would save so much time between travel, sorting cards, you name it. I would sell my collection in a blink of an eye, the one thing that disgust me is handling all those cards everytime. Guess 22 years playing and messing around with cards got me tired heh
Honestly, I don’t see how they implement a 4-person Magic game of any kind, Commander or otherwise, in an online platform such that it wouldn’t be an awful experience to play, as you explained very well in the second part of the video. But hey, let them prove me wrong. Sounds to me like an announcement by Hasbro top management to keep investors happy more than something that will actually happen.
10:00 and another thing: now you're sitting through 4 players of the game popping up a "resolve?" button everytime somebody does something that can be responded to. If you think Cat Oven is annoying with two players, imagine 4. I barely have time to deal with one other person, let alone 3. Commander is already a trigger heavy/combo nonsense format in paper. Imagine if they have Alchemy style cards legal as well, and other digital only cards that they can load the text box so much it requires scrolling.
Haven't watched the video but I have so much to talk about on this topic because whatever is said every penny going to any sort of magic online game should have gone to upgrading and bettering MTGO end of stroy! It's a great skeleton and they could have upgraded and updated it but nope had to reinvent the wheel.
Like I said in the previous comment unless almost every card in Magic's history that's legal for commander is free the app doesn't work. Now basically it's going to be precons from various sets and then you'll have to buy if you want to add this card or that card to the precon. That's how I think it's going to go or they may make every card available but you have to pay some sort of subscription service monthly to play the game that would work as long as the subscription service isn't too high
5:42 The problem is with that is you are going to get a deck and another deck and it's going to be fordex Max that everyone's playing the same freaking deck and it gets old fast
Your explanation pretty much sums up why I don't play Commander. So sad. I love the concept of negotiating, but people can be so fickle/emotional/salty/irrational, and mostly... distracted/slow.
8:21 uh no it won’t. Unless I can transfer my collection(which I paid for in some respect) no. I’m not moving. I’d rather not deal with getting squeezed and all the bs that hasbro is sure to set upon us should we decide to make the move. F that. 9:10 as a side note if they did allow transfers, no problem. I’d even likely spend some more money on the new client. 21:26 I have conceded many a match just not wanting to wait thru each time out. And never mind the people who know how to glitch the timers… still wondering how they get that thing to shut off. But yeah that’s happened.
the easiest way to deal with people conceding is having them leave the game but instead of them leaving the "table/lobby" they're just sitting there passing on every option that comes their way they pass through all phases on their turn. triggered effects that give a choice are choosing the first option or worst option, seems like an easy consession. with the the only caviot being they cant be chosen to make decisions in game. or a side option..... they cant join a new table/lobby until either they die or the match they left ends. obviously there will be trolls that wont let games end so you have a group vote to concede the game. if 2 or more players agree the game ends with the chosen player wining. ie "i conceed player 3 wins" also if a player has already left the game they also vote for yes for conceding.
I welcome news of a multiplayer magic client, but if the cards I own in MTGA will not be transferred 1-2-1 to the new platform, I will never spend a penny on any magic product again.
They should enable chat with mute and ban. AI monitor for toxicity. Its a bug miss to not have social available. Ability to chat. Then friends can discord while playing for voice. Also quitting games needs consequences
the way to fix people leaving the game & that removing a target, is to limply only let the control leave. ie red player is picking what cards to play... & green player is attacking red. Red wants to leave & they quit the game, but the deck is still there with Life points & even drawing a card but now no player is making choices. So no attack is blocked & no spells are played & discard is set to random. Your deck remains active as a target regardless of if u stay in game to control sed deck.
Id rather just play spell table with real cards , if they would put resources to making that better would be great . As far as a new arena type I would rather it have a subscription cost and give me access to all the cards to make decks from. Than they can also still charge for more blingy variations of cards.
Not really. You can already play Commander online if you so wish. But a lot of Commander players, me included, are not in it for the game, but for the social experience of playing that game face to face with real people. Not sure what the percentages are, but paper Magic will not become irrelevant.
@@Volkbrecht you are so short sighted its almost unbelievable. Do you have any idea how young ppl dont get out of bed if they cant do something online? Digital Cmdr is the de facto #1 most important thing for WotC to get right. They dont want to keep you and your mates as players: they want new shiny happy ppl as players.
First of all, good luck programming all the interactions in commander. Second, Arena is already cannibalizing paper sales for Standard and Pioneer. The new commander online will cannibalize the paper sales for commander as well.
Alot of this is solvable with bots playing the hands of player who quit and that's a tought things to do with 4 ppl but if it's possible then a suggestion is for test chambers vs bots and decks
We all know exactly what's going to happen. They will put in brackets to make it "fair" and players will immediately analyze and optimize the card pool to pub stomp tier 1.
Good. If I was forced to adhere to tiered bracket play, I'd find the way to game it. I want to use my collection and decks that I BUILT, not some garbage starter decks I have to build upon.
If it was like $5/month or less ($5 CAD!) for access to every single card, I’d go for it. If it’s modelled after something like MTGO or Arena I’ll pass.
Its just gunna be another app that they can suck money out of u on why let u have all the cards u have on arena nope make u buy them all again arena will still be around i bet
so THIS is why Arena never got commander? because they want to make a whole separate client to scam people out of money? holy shit. the only people who will play it are hardcore EDH players, nobody else will want anything to do with it.
Thanks for stopping by my friends, talking about Aetherdrift today in a livestream here - ua-cam.com/users/live6Ge-En_ZSak
to get EDH up and playing like arena they could just use the cards from arena that are available and players work from the current list on and maybe later start adding the older cards.
TheMagicHistorian yelling at his screen is priceless.
Why should anyone be surprised if WOTC shuts down Arena for a new client with your cards not transferring over? Anyone remember Magic Duels from 8 years ago? History repeats itself
it is a Hasbro thing, almost all entertainment for kids are now moving to digital. They are forcing everything they own to at least try and start moving to digital. At the very least they are bow back pedalling a little bit on paper magic.
this is why i refuse to put any money into these online versions
This is why i only play paper
I play arena all the time. I just dont pay for anything. If they shut it down im out nothing. I have my cardboard as well so they cant take that away.@tcgmetaslayer4202
The idea was to have multiple clients linked to a central collection, but Arena was successful financially and shaky program wise they decided to just stick with it.
"We dont care give us more money" - Hasbro
Probably no transfer of cards.
starting to feel a lot less like Hasbro and more like Hasbully
I'm highly skeptical that Arena will die anytime soon! A new Commander client will be tremendously risky for all the reasons you mentioned. Arena will only be headed out the door after they've successfully delivered this new Commander version and effectively duplicated the other formats from Arena. And there's no way they'll allow you to bring your cards over from Arena! Did they ever allow that in any other digital MTG game over the past 20+ years?
mtgo
It sucks that we can't get the free cards when we play prerelease in Southeast Asia and we need to pay more to play it online. Tsk. I just hope that accounts can be synchronized with what we have in outlr collection once this commander focused game starts.
MTGO is better than Arena anyway, so if Arena dies i really dont care, if i wanna play Magic id rather get as close to the full paper experience as i can...thats called MTGO
I just got a questionaire on MTGA about 4 play formats and collectibility in the game. Hmm...
I took it and let them know exactly how i feel.
I did as well.
@@roboticgentlemen1970 same here
One way they could handle concessions is have an ai take over for that player and if all three opponents concede the remaining human wins
Since they board-wiped the rules committee they can now make this. They have full control over the rules so they dont have to answer to anyone if they want to update the rules or the app. Get ready for AlchemyDH
they could do a system where you can by a commander deck (in paper), scan a qr code or something and import that deck to this new mtg service.
They could, but they’re not going to.
Or at least similar to Pokemon, where you get a digital booster for every code. Of course, they would never do that.
2000 IQ WOTC??????? LOL WOTC said they won't reprint the reserve list cards...However they just sell the digital version of the card LOL "it is not a reprint" WOTC says XD lololololol
Mtgo has been doing this for awhile. Since the early 2000?
The amount of triggers an average commander game can get, ugh. Not hard to skip through in person, but online sounds like a clog.
It is 100% not the end of magic arena. Not everyone wants to play commander. Also, commander online with no voice communication with random people honestly just sounds like a terrible time
I agree with you 100%. The best part of commander is the human interaction with friends lol online commander will be crap. Just sit around waiting for 3 turns instead of one. Wow. Fun
@@mateastman1765And most of the time it'll be 30 minutes before those 3 turns end.
Sounds great for cedh
It sounds beautiful to me anything to get away from the toxic arena and their digital only cards
Does WOTC know not everyone wants to play commander? I cannot separate UB from commander in my mind. I look at those sets and just think that they aren't for me. Frankly I think online commander with strangers will be the worst aspects of commander with none of the social stuff.
I was sent a personal survey by WOTC then a followup email from that survey, and among the things I was asked about arena and and paper was what my thoughts on alchemy were and I actually gave close to thirty screen shots of alchemy glitches or unfair gameplay. Every single screen shot once I sent to the person who contacted me via email they could immediately tell where each of the glitches were and they apologized and then said that they didn't know that they were having so many problems.
Typical. Arena gets worse and worse.
Cockatrice & Tabletop Simulator seem to do just fine with 4 players playing 2024 MTG.
That being said, WotC will still fuck it up for at least the first 6 months.
Wait, Cockatrice is still a thing?
@RaceBandit I use it still, since 2021
Those are simply table simulators that have basic card drawing/playing/placement features and you just enforce the rules and game mechanics on your own?
The complexity is an application that enforces all the rules appropriately.
@@dhLotan Yes, but in this age of proliferated A.I. chatbots, stringing together complex if>then statements on a card game gui shouldn't be as hard as MTG video games make it seem.
With the conceding issues, you can just have a bot take over. It's not a good fix, but it keeps games going
Or before the players 5-6th turn an increasing time ban (1 min 1st concede, 2 min 2nd concede, 3 min third concede, etc) or decreased rating for "sportmanship" so as a fair player you will see them less and if the conceding player want to increase their rating they have to first decrease their negative rating.
The bot can work. That is just passing until its the bots turn and then dropout (including the above penalties)
Talk about beating a dead horse. Traditional magic is dead, and WOTC is just exploiting the entrenched players and the newbies.
Glad I sold out years ago. Proxy cubes, y'all
I am going to be very dissapointed if my arena stuff doesnt transfer over. Ive been on arena for years and if I have to start over with my card collection its going to be a big hit to morale on top of all the other greedy stuff
And the same thing will eventually happen to this online commander client. It will eventually get discontinued in favour of a new version.
Which is even more ironic since Commander is supposed to be an eternal format, but online Commander clearly will not. Your physical cards will outlast this software.
(Although I guess there might eventually be a pirate version where you get all the cards for free, but does that really count?)
They should switch to a subscription model for multiplayer. Give everyone access to all the cards as long as they faithfully pay up every month. With proxies being on the rise in paper Magic, it would be the smart move. Subs are popular, inexpensive, and a small financial hurdle to access does wonders for the culture of players within a game.
FUQGIBMEMUHKNEE
Yeah same. If Arena cards don't transfer I won't be touching this. Keeping up with Arena and paper is already soul-crushing enough.
I highly doubt they couldn't get it to work in arena. I'm positive they want another us to have another app to buy all the cards we already have in Arena....
I program software for a living. It might actually impractical. Although I guarantee it would be easy to share collections. Don't if they don't share collections that was an intentional choice.
Three ropers instead of one sounds like a great time.
Online multiplayer commander is one of the things which could kill commander. You'll be outside of a friendly pod and in a pool of nameless faceless players. People are going to very quickly learn about the meta. If they have chat people will be jerks. If they don't have chat you lose all the social aspects that makes commander fun. I just see this as having all the worst part of commander with none of the upsides.
If arena dies thatll be hilarious
I don't get why they don't just fully update MTGO and make it the one program to use. There's literally nothing this new program is doing that MTGO hasn't been doing for decades now. Yeah its not as flashy but neither is actual IRL paper magic. It's not like you get animations and flourishes when you're playing with real cards, you don't really need any of that. MTGO has just about every format you could think of and it already has over 90% of the cards available IRL. It doesn't have a "hell queue", you get to choose who you're playing against. It doesn't have a fixed shuffler, there's more variety in decks and its WAY cheaper than anyone actually thinks. It's always been better than Arena in every way and it'll probably better than whatever this new thing is as well.
Animations are far more important for a digital game than you may realize
@@williamdrum9899 Why though? Like is it strictly from like a marketing kinda thing where it just appeals to newer players who like to see flashy animations and what not?
@GellyVelly have you ever played an old school text RPG, like black screen and text? It's hard to get people interested and harder to keep them if it's boring and not pretty. Visuals make the game feel like it's progressing and what you are doing has an impact
@@paulwarner7508 I mean I get ya to an extent but....this is magic. Again, when you're playing with friends IRL you just see cards and it's fine. If people are looking to play MTG online, MTGO offers that. If you're looking for a fancy, colourful RPG you can play Dragon Quest or whatever.
Mtgo is slow and boring though.
You WILL rebuy the shocklands
AND FETCHLANDS
Gonna rig the shuffler on this one too while having the playerbase using the same copy paste decks over and over how fun.
WOTC new game is a GATCHA commander game. After the success of Marvel Snap and now Pokémon TCG Pocket, Wizards is following suit.
Be funny if they changed the rules to make games faster like the other two. 10 starting life🎉
LOL!!!!!!! you talked about all the reasons why I hate area. Im glad people are aware of the fucking issues.
The games are gonna be so long since every player will need to pass priority all the time 👀 with this i see people scooping every single game just because of game length.
Four players going full control and having responses to responses to responses, and four different players trying to get different sort of server breaking infinites. Yeah, this thing is probably doomed if Arena can barely hold on to dear life with all the times I've seen people crash the game through different means.
Scute swarm was funny though.
"waiting.. waiting.. waiting.." cracked me up! you exacted that reference PERFECTLY!
16:20 simple solution: treat the player (in each other player's perspective and game state) as if on the board until the Stack is empty and the phase has changed.
21:45 they could implement a "non strictly following the rules, just go on and if you want priority then create an _ask instance_ where priority gets passed"
The levels of requirements of both synchronicity and backtracking possibilities are SO HIGH that I, as a Computer Scientist and developer, am freezingly shivering at the idea of the *sea of possible bugs* ... more than _Scutesworms_ !
As someone who only plays commander, having arena commander would be cool as long as i can copy my irl decks card for card. Also i hope it comes to consoles, not enough mtg games on console. Yugioh has duel links, why cant mtg have something similar?
The irony of all of this is that the first game of Magic I played in over a decade was a game of commander on MTGO. The game was 2 hours in and we were all still 25-30 life. Someone used a card that triggered like 50 times at the slowest pace ever. I quit and told myself paper was the only way. Never looked back.
Arena rewards only winning, that's why we have so many salty conceders and ropers. They should reward people for playing
That, or switch to a subscription model. At least for the Commander part of whatever client will be the future of online MTG. With the money I have sunk into paper Magic, I cannot be arsed to build another collection digitally. But paying about 10 to 15 $/€ per month to be able to build decks and play is a deal I could get behind. We'd not pay for digital cards we can never really own anyway, but for the play experience. And maybe the game codes from paper events and booster boxes could be for some play time instead of cards.
@@VolkbrechtCockatrice is free
You still get credit toward quests when you lose. It's not much but it's something.
Certainly interesting news, think I'm gonna opt out before release. Just recently uninstalled Arena and haven't really been missing it.
Because digital mtg sucks.
Paper > digital, always.
1) conceding should be sorcery speed only if they time out
2) The rope for sorcery speed should be a lot longer than instant speed.
3) Deck weight = helpful?! + revised
4) Formally recognize cEDH + introduce cEDH events?
I don't think MTGA will go away that quickly. Also, there are enough suckers for competitive 1-on-1 formats.
Making a separate client for Commander is pretty bad. Not going to start collection over again. And they have to start over with implementing cards if they mismanage to make the implementation usable in the other client.
I certainly wouldn't spend money for anything digital MTG.
Is there a link of the article?
Sounds like priority would be the same as in 1v1, you need to set it to manual if you want to avoid your opponent(s) from gaining information which will slow down gameplay considerably.
How can every day be a “big day” in magic 🤔 lmao
They could also modify Cockatrice, which is open-source, and adapt it to include monetization features. All relevant issues have already been addressed on that platform.
Appreciate the breakdown of your thoughts. This sounds like a dumpster fire waiting to happen.
Why? This will likely be a success among a part of the player base, and it will be ignored by others (like me).
Commander is a social, in person format, mostly with friends. Multi-player broadly is something you do with friends with the interaction being more important than the game in some ways. Going on-line eliminates the social aspect and with it, the basic attractiveness of Commander. People say they want Commander on-line but will likely be less enthised by what that means for the game. Maybe Commander just needs to be a subscription service. You get all the cards and make whatever deck you want. They get their money and if the site grows they make more
Had the same idea, subscription is the way to go. I'd be immediately in on that, just to have playground for building and testing decks on a convenient client before I make the effort of creating a paper deck.The only problem with that idea is that at each junction where the Arena team had to make a choice between corporate greed and goodies for the players, they always went down the greedy route. I cannot see them embracing the law of large numbers now instead of milking the whales, as they always have.
Seems like an opportunity to update the client and game engine. Allow players to use existing library they own. This new engine could be a planned new engine that supports multiple formats.
Maybe its simply Precon only.
No actual collection to change the decks.
That way WotC can balance these decks as they feel fit and sell full decks for big money and keep doing so.
That sounds like it'd be the worst way to do it. A big part of the fun of Commander is deck building. And people like making cool decks that involve self-expression.
@@MunchKING Yea and they would need to pay for each deck and if they want to change the decks, they need to pay for paper or play in Arena. If you give them all the options in one platform, they wont spend double or triple the money.
WotC will for sure find the worst possible solution for customers, that you can be sure of.
Why not update arena? We already have commander in arena called brawl and historic brawl. Just change the name and number of cards in the deck lol
Hopefully it runs better. On arena if you try to use ramp and draw an extra land the client takes forever to bring your deck up. By the time it comes up your timer runs out.
Not on my PC
I really hope they do some sort of player stats like concessions etc. then you can choose to play with those people or not.
i feel like the only way of having a commander game like areana is having the fancy effects, but have it function more like cockatrice or tabletop sim. but that would mean you NEED to have social features and have vocal interactions, which we all know what happens when you get a bunch of strangers on the internet. i can't see this happening at all.
On the other hand, the ability to play a full game of Commander on demand may be enough for some people to opt in, even if the client will be little clunky. The people that really need the social features can deploy them via 3rd party programs like discord.
That was the reason I dropped out of Arena as a paper player already. Took a break, ended up being longer than expected, when I came back I was just so far behind. I also did not want to spend any money on it as I play paper. I keep meaning to get back into it, just have not. This sounds pretty fun actually, they should have a Slay the Spire type game mode!
You’re right that WotC probably thinks* they can sell us the same pixels on both clients & some will. In truth, if players’ collections do carry over, it would increase sales far more as players view each purchase as having twice the value. Similar to how players go to prereleases for the code, they view it as getting double value & as far as WotC should* be concerned, it costs them nothing & pulls in more profit.
Frankly, I believe WotC’s lack of business sense comes from hiring based on politics instead of real qualification & merit.
It would be cool if they added trading of digital objects, too. And chat features. And all the cards. I guess that is asking too much.
" 'There's no such thing as rotation in commander.' "
Fixed it
I was informed that MTGO already supports Commander, so I assume all related questions and concerns have already been addressed and resolved. Additionally, people play Commander online using platforms like Cockatrice, and such tools have become an integral part of the experience. When you start a game, you're already familiar with these aspects, and everything functions smoothly as it is. I don't believe this new client will handle these matters any better or worse than they have been handled so far.
The issue with a online commander setup is that basically wizards has to say okay everything except for x cards usually high value ones are on the site free do you think wizards is actually going to do that because if they don't the game doesn't work
Does anyone remember Hex Shards of fate????
Loved that game! Sucks that the rumor is that WOTC shut them down.
sir Magic Historian! Have you ever seen a 73 thousand power hydra? I go the mossborn hydra to that range today ! Got a video of a crazy game !!! this is the potential i knew this card had! Moss born GOD of hydras
Whoever in marketing pushed thru that commander content should focus on the social aspect should get a raise.
But such a client will allow them to possibly test things like banning or unbannings as well and watch it closer
I really like playing Commander but it will be a BIG online mess. I can play Commander with family and friends using an overhead camera with my laptop. I don't have to deal with Wizards. Thank you for the video Magic Historian.
If they succeed in creating a digital commander client, adding all the other paper clients will be really easy. That would easily kill arena if they think they'll make more money from people rebuying their old cards.
So, I’ve only seriously played MTG in Arena. Do people seriously keep playing if they get land screwed/flooded? There is no point in playing if you totally get messed up lands.
In paper you're usually playing best of 3 unless its just casual play then you and your friend could just scoop and start again.
A commander online would be perfect for me and some of my friends, all of us married and with kids. Would save so much time between travel, sorting cards, you name it. I would sell my collection in a blink of an eye, the one thing that disgust me is handling all those cards everytime. Guess 22 years playing and messing around with cards got me tired heh
Honestly, I don’t see how they implement a 4-person Magic game of any kind, Commander or otherwise, in an online platform such that it wouldn’t be an awful experience to play, as you explained very well in the second part of the video. But hey, let them prove me wrong. Sounds to me like an announcement by Hasbro top management to keep investors happy more than something that will actually happen.
10:00 and another thing: now you're sitting through 4 players of the game popping up a "resolve?" button everytime somebody does something that can be responded to. If you think Cat Oven is annoying with two players, imagine 4. I barely have time to deal with one other person, let alone 3. Commander is already a trigger heavy/combo nonsense format in paper. Imagine if they have Alchemy style cards legal as well, and other digital only cards that they can load the text box so much it requires scrolling.
Haven't watched the video but I have so much to talk about on this topic because whatever is said every penny going to any sort of magic online game should have gone to upgrading and bettering MTGO end of stroy! It's a great skeleton and they could have upgraded and updated it but nope had to reinvent the wheel.
11:00 Chess Clocks? Everyone gets 30 mins? 11:37 Better have Voice Option. 15:48 Spite CONCEDE!
Macro social interaction is great on paper. But even then... Didn't Blizzard remove the "Sorry" from Hearthstone a year or two ago?
Like I said in the previous comment unless almost every card in Magic's history that's legal for commander is free the app doesn't work. Now basically it's going to be precons from various sets and then you'll have to buy if you want to add this card or that card to the precon. That's how I think it's going to go or they may make every card available but you have to pay some sort of subscription service monthly to play the game that would work as long as the subscription service isn't too high
5:42 The problem is with that is you are going to get a deck and another deck and it's going to be fordex Max that everyone's playing the same freaking deck and it gets old fast
Sure would be nice if this online commander game came to consoles
Getting real sick of only having aaa slop on my junkbox
I Miss Hex lol I found it too late unfortunately but man it was my shitttt lol
You have a very large store to buy non AAA games for xbox even gpass for trials.
I think the only way commander will work on this new digital platform is if it is set up as custom games and not random public matches
The reason why i love and play commander is the social aspect. Commander online would only be a last resort if we couldn't all make it's top the LGS.
Your explanation pretty much sums up why I don't play Commander. So sad. I love the concept of negotiating, but people can be so fickle/emotional/salty/irrational, and mostly... distracted/slow.
Is cockatrice still a thing?
Why does everyone assume the problem with online edh is the card database, and not the multiplayer side?
8:21 uh no it won’t. Unless I can transfer my collection(which I paid for in some respect) no. I’m not moving. I’d rather not deal with getting squeezed and all the bs that hasbro is sure to set upon us should we decide to make the move. F that.
9:10 as a side note if they did allow transfers, no problem. I’d even likely spend some more money on the new client.
21:26 I have conceded many a match just not wanting to wait thru each time out. And never mind the people who know how to glitch the timers… still wondering how they get that thing to shut off. But yeah that’s happened.
Still watching your stuff, but stopped playing Arena last month due to the upcoming release themes.
the easiest way to deal with people conceding is having them leave the game but instead of them leaving the "table/lobby" they're just sitting there passing on every option that comes their way they pass through all phases on their turn. triggered effects that give a choice are choosing the first option or worst option, seems like an easy consession. with the the only caviot being they cant be chosen to make decisions in game.
or a side option..... they cant join a new table/lobby until either they die or the match they left ends. obviously there will be trolls that wont let games end so you have a group vote to concede the game. if 2 or more players agree the game ends with the chosen player wining. ie "i conceed player 3 wins" also if a player has already left the game they also vote for yes for conceding.
I welcome news of a multiplayer magic client, but if the cards I own in MTGA will not be transferred 1-2-1 to the new platform, I will never spend a penny on any magic product again.
They should enable chat with mute and ban. AI monitor for toxicity. Its a bug miss to not have social available. Ability to chat. Then friends can discord while playing for voice.
Also quitting games needs consequences
put a block function and that solves the toxic stuff.
the way to fix people leaving the game & that removing a target, is to limply only let the control leave. ie red player is picking what cards to play... & green player is attacking red. Red wants to leave & they quit the game, but the deck is still there with Life points & even drawing a card but now no player is making choices. So no attack is blocked & no spells are played & discard is set to random. Your deck remains active as a target regardless of if u stay in game to control sed deck.
What if they make Alchemy style cards as they did in Arena? That would be bad i feel.
Id rather just play spell table with real cards , if they would put resources to making that better would be great . As far as a new arena type I would rather it have a subscription cost and give me access to all the cards to make decks from. Than they can also still charge for more blingy variations of cards.
Poor Billy. :D
This seems like yet another way for WotC to fleece players.
Digital Commander will be the final nail for paper Magic.
Not really. You can already play Commander online if you so wish. But a lot of Commander players, me included, are not in it for the game, but for the social experience of playing that game face to face with real people. Not sure what the percentages are, but paper Magic will not become irrelevant.
@@Volkbrecht you are so short sighted its almost unbelievable. Do you have any idea how young ppl dont get out of bed if they cant do something online? Digital Cmdr is the de facto #1 most important thing for WotC to get right. They dont want to keep you and your mates as players: they want new shiny happy ppl as players.
Digital Commander sucks. It can be played on MTGO and it sucks.
Yo Purp, it's J.B. here, long time no see.
Or my part I've got zero interest in edh online, because the real magic is in the gathering.
As long as you cant teade/sell between players how would it ever be considered a collectible game
I already play Commander on MTGO.....with a large collection.....gonna suck having to re-acquire all the cards....
Or you could not do that. Won't suck if you don't engage.
First of all, good luck programming all the interactions in commander. Second, Arena is already cannibalizing paper sales for Standard and Pioneer. The new commander online will cannibalize the paper sales for commander as well.
I didn't know how people play Arena on their phones without a magnifying glass. It's awful.
Do you not read text on a phone?
you probably need glasses man
I have glasses. It still sucks
Alot of this is solvable with bots playing the hands of player who quit and that's a tought things to do with 4 ppl but if it's possible then a suggestion is for test chambers vs bots and decks
Why not make it a side mode in Arena? these people direct their company like a bunch of clowns
Rail a line before the show?! 😆
We all know exactly what's going to happen. They will put in brackets to make it "fair" and players will immediately analyze and optimize the card pool to pub stomp tier 1.
Good. If I was forced to adhere to tiered bracket play, I'd find the way to game it. I want to use my collection and decks that I BUILT, not some garbage starter decks I have to build upon.
If it was like $5/month or less ($5 CAD!) for access to every single card, I’d go for it. If it’s modelled after something like MTGO or Arena I’ll pass.
Its just gunna be another app that they can suck money out of u on why let u have all the cards u have on arena nope make u buy them all again arena will still be around i bet
so THIS is why Arena never got commander? because they want to make a whole separate client to scam people out of money? holy shit. the only people who will play it are hardcore EDH players, nobody else will want anything to do with it.
I posit hardcore EDH players prefer to sit around a table together.
I know aetherdrift gets a lot of hate online but my two sons (10 and 9) are looking goward to the racing theme so that is a win for me
I feel bad for local game stores 😞 This will just be bad news for them.
So pissed if they don’t do transfers if this is what I think it is -.-