Thanks for the steady camerwork. I can use this video so other can learn how to take fire video and what to look for when things start to go south. Thanks again and be safe
@FETC2007 I totally agree with you.You can tell that volume of smoke and velocity is too much for the structure to absorb.Ventilation at the highest points would be key.Noone in my opinion, should have been in this structure until ventilation had occured.
That surprises me. Most Volunteer Depts I know of take great pride in thier professionalism and perform at least as well as the career depts I know. In my area all the depts train hard and often in all weather conditions and have NO problems rolling trucks. What area are you referring to?
@jlm993 Thats a BOLD statement too make.Don't categorize one experience with a incompetent Vol.Dept. and label all Vol. Dept with that status, its a great way to make enemies.I could easily give you situations in which some Paid Dept's have made some bonehead mistakes, too error, is human.
Lets learn from this video, a building is a container. It can only hold so much heat/smoke/gases before flashover. The vent profile here is impending flashover. The windows being taken on 1st floor just expedited flashover. The color, volume, and velocity all read too rich to burn. They should have vented the roof, if unable, the attic windows, all 2nd floor windows. But in reality, to stop the flashover you need to vent the box from the highest point, to make the 1st floor tenable for FF's.
It's a flash over not a backdraft. The flashover is the point when everything in the room reaches ignition temp. Backdraft is when the fire is confined to an area with little ventilation so it can not get fresh air. when a window or door is opened, the fire draws the fresh air in and thats where the suction of smoke comes from. take a look at some of my video to see an example of a backdraft.
cant be a smoke explosion because that would be defines as a backdraft, and the house was clearly not showing signs of backdraft. IT was venting and with open visible flame. What you saw was a flashover, and if anyone was doing interior operations.. they just got cooked.
Exactly what roofhook stated, why are they taking all the windows out and they don't even have a line charged and on the fire? The fire room was self ventilated cause you had fire coming out the window? But taking all those windows without have a line on the fire just pulled it through the whole house.
If the fire's going like that and nobody is inside, there's no need to risk firefighter safety for a building that will most likely be demolished anyways. And he's not saying don't fight the fire at all, just do it safely...
Nothing like breaking all the windows of a hot fire to give it more oxygen. Sigh. If we had the minutes before this, I'd guess we'd see guys walking around breaking open the windows.
Yep, if you pull up to that you should absolutely keep on driving instead of coordinating ventilation and interior attack and save something of the building. Translation: DO YOUR JOB!!!
Yep... Fire on the first floor, the second is a definite loss. *rolls eyes* How about doing exactly what they did- knock it down from the porch, then GET BACK IN THERE and FINISH it! Looks like they're manpower short, which I can understand how it got away from them (altough it does look like some innapropriate venting going on, which goes to deficient training).If people like you guys have their way, pretty soon all firefighting will be ladder pipes and deck guns.
He doesn't. He's commenting on thier obvious poor training. As a volunteer FF I can tell you most of our guys are as well or better trained than most career FF's I've worked beside. I could tell you stories about some unbelievable things I've seen.
No,it has nothing to do with water but everything to do with AIR!!! ventilation is an art as much as a science. FIRE WILL GO TO THE OXYGEN!!!, that was not suprising at all. Sadly this is not a lesson that people have picked up on quick enough,there are lots of videos on youtube just like this. Why the hell are FF's so obsessed with bashing out windows!?!?! Its is criminally stupid, yet we are still heroes, if people only knew...
@jlm993 The statement of " most Volunteers are as good as Paid" is a categorizing statement and I dont agree that most are as good or better, but the fact is, there are Volunteer Fire Departments around the world and the United States that are better trained and experienced than some Paid Departments.So again,your categorizing that Volunteers are not held to the same standards,some are held to the same standards, you my friend are not correct, free your mind from your arrogance.
Thanks for the steady camerwork.
I can use this video so other can learn how to take fire video
and what to look for when things start to go south.
Thanks again and be safe
Excellent training video. This really helps with reading smoke.
My sincere thanks to commentaries on this vid.......very informative
@FETC2007 I totally agree with you.You can tell that volume of smoke and velocity is too much for the structure to absorb.Ventilation at the highest points would be key.Noone in my opinion, should have been in this structure until ventilation had occured.
pretty much yes. There was a scene in I think it was Harvey, IL where shortly after the evac signal was given, a wall collapsed.
@roofuslwinn Yes. 3 sets of 3 blasts is evac tones for interior firefighters.
That surprises me. Most Volunteer Depts I know of take great pride in thier professionalism and perform at least as well as the career depts I know. In my area all the depts train hard and often in all weather conditions and have NO problems rolling trucks. What area are you referring to?
Look up Dave Dodson's Art of Reading smoke. He teaches classes and also has a couple DVDs available. It is an awesome class.
The universal signal is 3 blasts of the air horn repeated 2, 3 or 4 times plus evacuate order via radio.
the All Out signal is nice
they were really lucky with the flash over and did read it correctly
Agreed Nove, we are a vol/poc dept.
@jlm993 Thats a BOLD statement too make.Don't categorize one experience with a incompetent Vol.Dept. and label all Vol. Dept with that status, its a great way to make enemies.I could easily give you situations in which some Paid Dept's have made some bonehead mistakes, too error, is human.
Lets learn from this video, a building is a container. It can only hold so much heat/smoke/gases before flashover. The vent profile here is impending flashover. The windows being taken on 1st floor just expedited flashover. The color, volume, and velocity all read too rich to burn. They should have vented the roof, if unable, the attic windows, all 2nd floor windows. But in reality, to stop the flashover you need to vent the box from the highest point, to make the 1st floor tenable for FF's.
Im interested in this whole series ...Is there more?
It's a flash over not a backdraft. The flashover is the point when everything in the room reaches ignition temp. Backdraft is when the fire is confined to an area with little ventilation so it can not get fresh air. when a window or door is opened, the fire draws the fresh air in and thats where the suction of smoke comes from. take a look at some of my video to see an example of a backdraft.
cant be a smoke explosion because that would be defines as a backdraft, and the house was clearly not showing signs of backdraft. IT was venting and with open visible flame. What you saw was a flashover, and if anyone was doing interior operations.. they just got cooked.
Well said.
Exactly what roofhook stated, why are they taking all the windows out and they don't even have a line charged and on the fire? The fire room was self ventilated cause you had fire coming out the window? But taking all those windows without have a line on the fire just pulled it through the whole house.
I wonder if the flashover has anything to do with the guys breaking the windows in the beginning
@roofuslwinn he's using groups of 3, the universal distress signal
dnfire...your right and if ya look the IC(i guess) is right in the middle of it, instead of stepping back and seeing the whole picture....
Great more volly v career pssing contest. We all do the job. God bless and back each other up here. Don't be a hindsight know it all arse.
If the fire's going like that and nobody is inside, there's no need to risk firefighter safety for a building that will most likely be demolished anyways. And he's not saying don't fight the fire at all, just do it safely...
our vol dept. signal is 1 blast for 10 seconds - repeated often, but you hear that 10 second blast - you get out
Nothing like breaking all the windows of a hot fire to give it more oxygen. Sigh. If we had the minutes before this, I'd guess we'd see guys walking around breaking open the windows.
I agree. you are probably right
Well sort of. When you need to evacuate everyone you just lay on the horn and broadcast over the radio for everyone to get out.
I thought we smashed the windows to get it to flash while we know nobody's inside.
the right tactic would have been to vent the room first then get a fire stream in there.
Yep, if you pull up to that you should absolutely keep on driving instead of coordinating ventilation and interior attack and save something of the building.
Translation: DO YOUR JOB!!!
Yep... Fire on the first floor, the second is a definite loss. *rolls eyes* How about doing exactly what they did- knock it down from the porch, then GET BACK IN THERE and FINISH it! Looks like they're manpower short, which I can understand how it got away from them (altough it does look like some innapropriate venting going on, which goes to deficient training).If people like you guys have their way, pretty soon all firefighting will be ladder pipes and deck guns.
He doesn't. He's commenting on thier obvious poor training. As a volunteer FF I can tell you most of our guys are as well or better trained than most career FF's I've worked beside. I could tell you stories about some unbelievable things I've seen.
where was this
you would put someone on that roof?
@roofuslwinn it was three groups of three. anything in three is danger
No,it has nothing to do with water but everything to do with AIR!!! ventilation is an art as much as a science. FIRE WILL GO TO THE OXYGEN!!!, that was not suprising at all. Sadly this is not a lesson that people have picked up on quick enough,there are lots of videos on youtube just like this. Why the hell are FF's so obsessed with bashing out windows!?!?! Its is criminally stupid, yet we are still heroes, if people only knew...
Flashover
Crap...Nova..
@jlm993 The statement of " most Volunteers are as good as Paid" is a categorizing statement and I dont agree that most are as good or better, but the fact is, there are Volunteer Fire Departments around the world and the United States that are better trained and experienced than some Paid Departments.So again,your categorizing that Volunteers are not held to the same standards,some are held to the same standards, you my friend are not correct, free your mind from your arrogance.