No, Windows 11 Does NOT Ruin Gaming Performance (Don't Disable VBS)

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  • Опубліковано 1 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1 тис.

  • @ThioJoe
    @ThioJoe  3 роки тому +285

    ▼ Some additional points to emphasize: ▼
    • Yes there is a somewhat consistent but small performance hit (but not always) - Importantly, I *personally* consider a ~5% performance hit negligible because there are probably other factors that affect it way more. I would say 10% is not negligible, and 20-30% would indeed be crippling if that was the case. Clearly some people are getting massive 30% hits in certain limited circumstances but I think there must be another compounding factor at play that does indeed need to be investigated.
    • In my opinion, 5% is a totally acceptable tradeoff to get the extra security that VBS and VBS+HVCI offer, so I would definitely recommend enabling it on Windows 11. On Windows 10 though, only IF you have an 8th gen or later Intel CPU that has the MBEC feature - anything earlier WILL have a big performance hit most likely.
    • You may consider 5% to be totally unacceptable, and decide to turn off VBS altogether, which is totally within your rights, but I just want to make sure you are doing it FULLY informed about the true performance cost or lack thereof (disabling VBS altogether is actually tougher than it sounds, I had to do it with the registry, and the instructions are not always clear from Microsoft, you'll have to try several things. Also remember disabling memory integrity does not disable VBS)
    • Some have mentioned there is a bigger problem with AMD Ryzen processors, which I cannot speak to because I tested Intel. I will say that the PC Gamer article also tested on an Intel 10th gen, so my tests as a comparison are not moot. For AMD stats, I refer you to the Tom's Guide article link in the description, where they tested both Intel and AMD.
    • You can check if you have Virtualization Based Security running by searching the start menu for "System Information" and looking for "Virtualization Based Security" which will either say "Running" or "Not Enabled". As for memory integrity, if you are having trouble enabling it even though you have no conflicting drivers shown, you can enable it through group policy editor under "Device Guard" (just look up the instructions).

    • @BCGaming666
      @BCGaming666 3 роки тому +2

      Hi

    • @Kat21
      @Kat21 3 роки тому +5

      Hello ThioJoe, been watching since the old videos like how to get free tv cable :)

    • @yourlifenarratedby6217
      @yourlifenarratedby6217 3 роки тому +9

      ThioJoe? My good man, you’ve ‘REALLY’ stepped-up your game. In my opinion, you’ve gone above and beyond at explaining all of this. Seriously, you get a 12/10 to me. Keep up the great work! 😉👍🏽

    • @BARAAGAMER_YT
      @BARAAGAMER_YT 3 роки тому +6

      Blessed Friday,and you're creative keep going✨✨✨✨✨..
      Sender:your brother (Baraa) from Palestine
      🇵🇸🇺🇲

    • @AndersHass
      @AndersHass 3 роки тому +3

      All of Intel 7th gen should also have MBEC as far as I know (or at least my i5-7200U got). So I don't understand why they aren't supported in Windows 11

  • @raawesome3851
    @raawesome3851 3 роки тому +731

    Thank you for being an honest creator rather than looking for clicks.

    • @KryzysX
      @KryzysX 3 роки тому +1

      Yeah i Agree with that !!
      That's da thing i luv in Thio :>

    • @cubeir
      @cubeir 3 роки тому +13

      thumbnail is still clickbait though 🤣

    • @raawesome3851
      @raawesome3851 3 роки тому +8

      @@cubeir no, it's not clickbait.

    • @cubeir
      @cubeir 3 роки тому +14

      @@raawesome3851
      1. I'm joking if It's not obvious already
      2. there's no destroy performance or VBS switch on windows 11, someone might just think there's an option to turn off for it, so they click vid.

    • @nsawatchlistbait289
      @nsawatchlistbait289 3 роки тому +36

      You know, that wasn't how he was a couple of years ago

  • @ChrisTitusTech
    @ChrisTitusTech 3 роки тому +681

    The big thing you missed was AMD chips do indeed suffer a 15% decrease in performance, which I believe engaget covered as AMD said they are working on a patch for this. Should be fixed soon... but overall I do agree don't disable VBS from what I am seeing. Most high end laptops still use intel, but many desktop users will see a a 15% cpu dip from this upgrade on AMD Ryzen. It should be noted, most games are GPU heavy and shouldn't see a 30% dropoff like PC gamer article said, but I'm still doing testing myself.

    • @login98
      @login98 3 роки тому +6

      yes

    • @FireFoxDestroyer
      @FireFoxDestroyer 3 роки тому +13

      If they dont fix this then that means
      Is Microsoft siding with Intel?

    • @mihailomarkovic6285
      @mihailomarkovic6285 3 роки тому +44

      Amd is literally working on it rn, it has nothing to do with windows

    • @stevenhe3462
      @stevenhe3462 3 роки тому +15

      @@FireFoxDestroyer I would say Microsoft test their systems on Intel. If you see that "Windows 10 does not use AMD memory correctly" video you will see.

    • @sneedsneed460
      @sneedsneed460 3 роки тому +3

      Zero performance drops at all on my 10900K system

  • @minimvl
    @minimvl 3 роки тому +289

    In all honestly I feel like games are running more smoothly in some situations. Borderless windowed mode is actually usable for me in some games now.

    • @mikhaelcool7
      @mikhaelcool7 3 роки тому +1

      CPU ?

    • @minimvl
      @minimvl 3 роки тому +4

      10850

    • @magnarex
      @magnarex 3 роки тому +10

      Definitely, for me I have a laptop and on battery performance has gotten significantly better and on adapter performance has gone through the roof, in some games I went from stutters at points to completely smooth gameplay. My cpu is a i7 11370H

    • @mikhaelcool7
      @mikhaelcool7 3 роки тому +1

      @@minimvl Is 7th gen supported yet ?

    • @The_One_Eyed_Rouge
      @The_One_Eyed_Rouge 3 роки тому

      More input lag though

  • @ckingpro
    @ckingpro 3 роки тому +24

    Device Guard is now called WDAC (Windows Defender Application Control). But yeah, the acronym soup is really annoying at times causing confusion. A very simple description of all of this:
    We need to begin with VBS itself. So as you might (or might not) know, kernel mode has far higher privileges and access than the normal usual mode (known as user mode) where all your programs run. For example, it sets up page tables to make sure each process can't access another process's memory and handles sensitive operations like file I/O, memory mapping etc. This is all really nice and provides privilege isolation. But, drivers run in kernel mode and many of them can have bugs. Many of the linux kernel (which has drivers for devices in the codebase) and Windows kernel vulnerabilities are from drivers. Plus, many of the protections like memory permissions including no-execute (DEP) of the kernel are handled by the page tables in the kernel which a driver can just change. There is Patchguard which uses checks that are heavily obfuscated and change regularly to try and make it harder to exploit the kernel (but security through obscurity is not a security barrier) and it only protects certain regions.
    What VBS allows you to do is run Windows essentially inside a VM (don't worry, all your hardware is passed through so no emulation involved). When you boot, a separate secure kernel first boots, and sets up the virtualization and then normal kernel boots. It can enforce code signing of kernel drivers (hence HVCI: Hypervisor-Protected Code Integrity) and locks them. Even if a malicious driver or exploit changes the page tables, the secure kernel through now controls the memory and protects that. VBS also guards regions the regions PatchGuard protected and all executable memory in the kernel must go through code-signing protected by the secure kernel (this is called Hyperguard and is separate from HVCI. Hyperguard works if VBS is enabled, and does not require HVCI. The executable kernel memory check is handled by HVCI). This also means drivers must not create new executable regions or do JIT (which is why some drivers are incompatible). It also blocks known vulnerable drivers even if they are signed (which is huge). The code signing part is Kernel-Mode Code Integrity (may be done in the kernel or under VBS). VBS also allows Control Flow Guard (CFG) in the Kernel (although explaining that would need its own post)
    There's also UMCI (Usermode code integrity) but that is used by Windows Defender Application Control (previously Device Guard). This is an enterprisey feature that only allows programs that match certain code signatures (there's a lot more than just this, but this is a simplification). Windows 10 S mode was a way to try and bring this to home users, but Microsoft Store then was useless.
    This is where Mode-Based Execution Control (MBEC) came in (GMET is AMD's branding of this, Guest Mode Execute Trap). Previously, the way hypervisor would take control was from any new page of executable memory. This would require the secure kernel to take control, check if it is kernel or usermode executable memory and then do checks for kernel memory for signing. As you can imagine, launching or modifying any process would require these checks (and things like browsers which do JIT to execute code like javascript require even more switches between secure kernel and normal kernel). MBEC allows the chip to only trap executable memory for kernel, making this much faster.

    • @junkname9983
      @junkname9983 3 місяці тому

      many drivers are now moved to user mode. The problem is that there's a bunch of legacy kernel mode drivers that will break if you block them from executing in kernel mode, but really, people should be move away from using those things if they want their system to be secure.

  • @ikj2673
    @ikj2673 3 роки тому +137

    Yes Guys he is right. I did a clean install of Win 11 3 days ago. When I read the articles about gaming performance, I was really scared. So, I decided to do the testing myself, I have around 36 games and I am a gamer I have played for really long periods I play them with fps counter on often. So, I know what kind of performance my RTX 2060 gives me. And yesterday I did the testing and played them all for some time. I am glad to find that there was 0 to 1% difference in performance. Also in some games like Call of Duty Warzone, It ran the smoother than ever.

    • @cheehuigoh9363
      @cheehuigoh9363 3 роки тому +10

      My pc run smooth on win11 too, performance didn't drop...

    • @christohees9150
      @christohees9150 3 роки тому +1

      And go back to win 10 and see you avg higher fps 😉

    • @windowstips1430
      @windowstips1430 3 роки тому +9

      @@christohees9150 Nope, better on 11 for me

    • @christohees9150
      @christohees9150 3 роки тому

      @@windowstips1430 have a look at counter strike and higher fps games 😉

    • @windowstips1430
      @windowstips1430 3 роки тому +8

      @@christohees9150 it's the same

  • @E-1337
    @E-1337 3 роки тому +84

    bro I remember when you were a meme, you did an absolutely fantastic job, I can tell you genuinely care about this. please keep up the brilliant work, it's genuinely helping people understand their hardware and software, and not just blindly following the trending topics.

    • @E-1337
      @E-1337 3 роки тому +16

      but for real where can i download more ram at? ;)

    • @WisdomAkpan211
      @WisdomAkpan211 3 роки тому +9

      Bruh I remember when this guy's channel was all about trolling people xD

    • @williaamlarsson
      @williaamlarsson 3 роки тому +8

      I'm still not 100% sure if he's serious or trolling

    • @MsGoblin5
      @MsGoblin5 3 роки тому

      @@williaamlarsson ^

    • @stoway8459
      @stoway8459 3 роки тому +7

      BROOO LOOOOL SO NOSTALGIC WHEN I WAS A DUMB 8 YEARS OLD KID STILL THIS MAN TOLD ME TO DOWNLOAD MORE RAM LMFAO (im 17 now)

  • @fragalot
    @fragalot 3 роки тому +79

    I'd be curious to know what kind of PC the PCGamer article author was using. Was he on a laptop or desktop? Was it a clean install of Win11 by the author? Intel or AMD? Was it a prebuilt PC that came with Windows 11? Was there bloatware on it? What other software was installed on that PC while he was benchmarking? There are so many things that can effect performance. That "Sample size of one" was exactly what was going though my mind too Thio, before you said it.

    • @KeinNiemand
      @KeinNiemand 3 роки тому +15

      and most importantly was he using an unsoported CPU

    • @StephenMcGregor1986
      @StephenMcGregor1986 3 роки тому +15

      Literally says in the article
      "CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K
      Motherboard: MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi
      Graphics card: Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti Founders Edition
      Memory: 32GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4-3200|
      SSD: 1TB SK Hynix Gold P31
      Cooler: Corsair H100i RGB Pro XT
      Chassis: DimasTech Mini V2
      OS: Windows 11 Build 22000.194"
      Go and read the article before crapping on them due to a UA-camr's limited opinion

    • @mattbosley3531
      @mattbosley3531 3 роки тому +1

      Couldn't have been a prebuilt that came with Windows 11, since until just a couple of days ago there weren't any of those. There still aren't any gaming PCs prebuilt with Windows 11 that I've seen yet.

    • @nicethaddy5955
      @nicethaddy5955 3 роки тому

      @@mattbosley3531 Prebuilt PC's have been loaded with the final build of W11 for weeks now, actually.

    • @JayShady84
      @JayShady84 3 роки тому +1

      Im more curious of why Joe chose to discredit PCgamers findings using a setup that wasnt even close to theirs....I mean in their findings they said that power consumption was some how dropping and Joe chose to use a Origin laptop. Im not saying PC gamers findings were right but at least verify their results on your own before saying that their findings are wrong. It would be nice to know the model of the origin laptop also but I think he is talking about EON17 , which I think its suppose to have 2 1080s in SLI and 64gbs of ram but either way its like comparing apples to oranges

  • @META313.
    @META313. Рік тому +11

    I get 67fps in Cyberpunk in-game benchmark with VBS on and 75fps with VBS off.
    I have no clue how your testing went but my result is more than enough for me to instantly disable it.

    • @airnox726
      @airnox726 Місяць тому

      But how is it in game? Because that's where your cpu will get to work.

  • @roshinthomaskoshy115
    @roshinthomaskoshy115 3 роки тому +192

    I installed windows 11 on my old PC (2nd gen) using the method seen in LTT. I also run windows 10 on the same system. From my brief usage I found W11 performs better than W10, epecially the disk usage(mostly 100% in W10 but settles to low percentage in W11). Another change I noticed is the performance increase(10-20%) in UA-cam playback (Noticable for 1080p 60fps videos at 1.25x or 1.5x).

    • @KokoSword
      @KokoSword 3 роки тому +5

      WoW great 👍☺️

    • @ethanwin99
      @ethanwin99 3 роки тому +3

      great news i cant wait to install it i will install it in October 10

    • @IvanRiveraStagea
      @IvanRiveraStagea 3 роки тому +16

      To be fair, VBS and Memory Integrity are probably not available on that older machine.

    • @Woodzta
      @Woodzta 3 роки тому +10

      Yeah, I'm on an unsupported 4th Gen and disk usage definitely seems lower. I did a clean install so it might be misleading but I'm impressed by the performance differences that I feel.

    • @IvanRiveraStagea
      @IvanRiveraStagea 3 роки тому +9

      @@Woodzta It is more responsive on older machines as it has more optimizations for lower spec hardware. These security features that are being discussed are unavailable on pre-TPM 2.0 devices, however.

  • @del-chicken2641
    @del-chicken2641 3 роки тому +14

    They should put a disclaimer saying "My experience only"

  • @Rasherplayz
    @Rasherplayz 3 роки тому +55

    I noticed about 3-4 FPS increase after upgrading to Win 11, Thanks for spreading this info to people!.Also, my pc is low end but i still get FPS increase

    • @StopRemindingMeOfThoseDays
      @StopRemindingMeOfThoseDays 3 роки тому +3

      Specs?

    • @Bunuffin
      @Bunuffin 3 роки тому +5

      fresh install?

    • @Rasherplayz
      @Rasherplayz 3 роки тому +3

      @@Bunuffin nah, i installed it about an month ago-

    • @Rasherplayz
      @Rasherplayz 3 роки тому +5

      @@Bunuffin i already have a lot of programs and games which usually used to make win10 slow, but win11 runs just fine except multitasking more then 3 programs causes a bit lag

    • @Rasherplayz
      @Rasherplayz 3 роки тому +5

      @@StopRemindingMeOfThoseDays
      Intel Core i3 2120 3.30 GHZ (2 Cores)
      8GB RAM
      Intel HD 2000 (32mb)
      Optiplex 790 from 2012

  • @Oscar.P
    @Oscar.P 3 роки тому +25

    Updated to 11 a couple of days ago on my 4800h HP omen 15 and I don't have any issues, some games run even better.

    • @userunknown1030
      @userunknown1030 3 роки тому

      well i saw no improvements also i don't think i will be switching on principle microsoft said windows was the last windows i would ever need and seems they where correct. other then the fact they made another one i guess that must be for other people lol.

    • @null6482
      @null6482 3 роки тому +3

      @@userunknown1030 idk man...my pc is so much faster in win 11

    • @null6482
      @null6482 3 роки тому

      @@userunknown1030 and (almost everyone) says that win 11 is the same or even faster than win 10

    • @userunknown1030
      @userunknown1030 3 роки тому

      @@null6482 yeah i guess it varies from set up to set up. though like i said i don't see the point to switching the one thing they where adding that i thought was cool was they where going to natively support android apps then i find out it is only useable at the moment with the amazon store apps which killed it for me on windows 10 i have now i can run all android apps but it is through a third party which is fine i just though cool i wont have to use them anymore but i was wrong lol.

    • @userunknown1030
      @userunknown1030 3 роки тому

      @@null6482 well i guess the point to my last comment is that windows 11 isn't that much of an improvement in my day to day so there really is no point of moving to it.

  • @frankom2862
    @frankom2862 3 роки тому +66

    How old we need to be to understand that everytime that Microsoft come with a new version of their software, we should wait till it works.

    • @SomethingaboutScreens
      @SomethingaboutScreens 3 роки тому +5

      *"till it works"*
      Destroyed in seconds!🤣🤣😂😂🤣

    • @linear1224
      @linear1224 3 роки тому +9

      Yeah, but this video is about their software actually working as intended tho?

    • @frankom2862
      @frankom2862 3 роки тому +1

      @@linear1224 Thats what my grandma said to me, but these days I trust nobody, even my grandma is lit (by 2000´s definition).

    • @DviousDingle
      @DviousDingle 3 роки тому +3

      @@SomethingaboutScreens he wasnt roasting MS tho,
      Any Software should be given a specific amount of time, Bruh.

    • @SomethingaboutScreens
      @SomethingaboutScreens 3 роки тому +1

      @@DviousDingle i know 😂
      Unintentional roast!

  • @MAADUKTV
    @MAADUKTV 8 місяців тому +28

    It’s not about FPS, it’s about stuttering. Core isolation make stuttering in games.

  • @TheWax70
    @TheWax70 3 роки тому +23

    Good work on benchmarks, Thio! Appreciate the amount of time you put in this.

  • @charginginprogresss
    @charginginprogresss Рік тому +6

    I will not disable VBS.
    If I never enabled it, it counts as not disabling it right

    • @Play-gn7xg
      @Play-gn7xg Рік тому +1

      That's the same logic of saying gravity killed the person, not you pushing them off

  • @BrianG61UK
    @BrianG61UK 3 роки тому +5

    I see lots of explanations of how VBS works and what it is but nobody explains how it's better than the normal process isolation we have had since the 386.
    PLEASE could somebody explain for me?

  • @ApostKef
    @ApostKef 3 роки тому +12

    Thiojoe, please make a video about the compatibility of zen+ with windows 11, because i think it is questionable. Zen+ does not support hardware accelerated hvci, so i am really qurious to see the possible performance hit if hvci is on

  • @GamePro0012
    @GamePro0012 3 роки тому +16

    It's always reassuring to see things like this. Keep in mind, Microsoft always can--and probably will--make enhancements to VBS and HVCI to further reduce their impact on performance.

    • @Vivi_Strike
      @Vivi_Strike 2 роки тому +3

      1 year later and VBS is still garbage... I can barely even run phone/virtual emulations with it on and if you set the mouse poll rate to anything over 250 the desktop struggles to smoothly highlight icons/folders when hovering between them.

  • @PaulAnthony2009
    @PaulAnthony2009 3 роки тому +10

    Hey Joe, is there such a thing as 'Game Mode' anymore, where you can shut down all unnecessary process ?
    Cheers 👍👍

  • @Drakarys
    @Drakarys 3 роки тому +50

    Useful info, but very different configurations. Keep in mind that you're running an older 8700k vs PC Gamer 10700k and while this may even seem to confirm that there's something wrong with their testing method since the newer and faster CPU on paper should perform much better, this is not always the case. Many times there have been issues with newer generations of hardware due to how they handle various instructions in different scenarios. Besides, AMD has already officially reported significant performance issues (around ~15% performance drop) in their CPUs which is quite noticeable especially on their newest high end CPUs. And Microsoft has also acknowledged this and confirmed that a patch is on the way for the issue. Take it with a grain of salt or anecdotal evidence since I'm just some random dude leaving UA-cam comments, but I have experienced this myself. And my personal system is pretty beef with a 5900X on X570 with an EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra and 32 gigs @ 3600 MHz. My workstation is even better with a 5950X and a 3090 and at the office we have some Epycs as well, which we are currently testing and there is indeed a performance issue. Not as big as PC Gamer are reporting but there's definitely a performance issue, at least for AMD for sure.

    • @raracool6531
      @raracool6531 3 роки тому +6

      With your point though, does that not prove that is out of Microsoft’s hands and it’s up to CPU manufacturers to create a fix and push it out? It’s still not down to VBS.

    • @RobFlexz
      @RobFlexz 3 роки тому +9

      This is called constructive Criticism, hard to find that on comments.

    • @Kris_M
      @Kris_M 3 роки тому +1

      @@raracool6531 I don't see anything in Drakarys' comment that proves that it is out of Microsoft's hands. What's going on here with the performance difference between VBS on and off, I'm not sure, but M$'s specific implementation can still be affecting performance on certain CPUs even with VBS support, with no fault on the CPUs side.

    • @raracool6531
      @raracool6531 3 роки тому +3

      @@Kris_M Well take the AMD L3 issue. That's on AMD's end rather than Microsoft's. I'm not the most well versed on what actually goes on in a CPU, so that's where my logic was coming from. Apologies.

    • @christopherfortineux6937
      @christopherfortineux6937 3 роки тому +2

      smh I have a 10700F and have seen Zero difference with W11. AMD is going to have to update microcode.

  • @Unknown-xe6ni
    @Unknown-xe6ni 3 роки тому +11

    People: 4-5% fps drop
    Me: getting from 100 fps in Minecraft to now like 500 at 1080p high that in low end mx350😍

    • @Unknown-xe6ni
      @Unknown-xe6ni 3 роки тому

      @Kael bought on may 5 2021

    • @gragogflying-anvil3605
      @gragogflying-anvil3605 3 роки тому

      @@Unknown-xe6ni Old components inside it…?

    • @Unknown-xe6ni
      @Unknown-xe6ni 3 роки тому

      ​@@gragogflying-anvil3605 no and also the pc is released less than a year ago. Anyway tracckpad issue made me revert it

  • @JSmith-nu4bl
    @JSmith-nu4bl 4 місяці тому

    9:34 where did you check this ?

  • @tux_the_astronaut
    @tux_the_astronaut 3 роки тому +38

    Windows 11 has actually run stuff faster for me in both a VM and hardware

  • @royalkumar795
    @royalkumar795 3 роки тому +14

    PC GAMER : Gaming performance drop to 25%
    ThioJoe: Did you test on SDD ?
    PC GAMER : Surprise pikachu face

    • @Lol-jp1ju
      @Lol-jp1ju 3 роки тому

      Ssd didn't improve your performance it just helps to load your game in short time.

    • @royalkumar795
      @royalkumar795 3 роки тому

      @@Lol-jp1ju But, SDD does make huge difference from HDD with faster boot ,better performance and fast loading on video game , maybe Bad HDD might caused this issue , like they are gonna tell us anyway

    • @Lol-jp1ju
      @Lol-jp1ju 3 роки тому

      @@royalkumar795 you can check benchmarks in yt to see that there is no performance difference

    • @royalkumar795
      @royalkumar795 3 роки тому

      @@Lol-jp1ju like I said , like they are gonna tell us anyway

    • @Lol-jp1ju
      @Lol-jp1ju 3 роки тому

      @@royalkumar795 testing games is a channel in yt search in yt

  • @wtfaatp
    @wtfaatp 2 роки тому +7

    Well this didn't age well.

    • @Wft-bu5zc
      @Wft-bu5zc 2 роки тому +1

      Nope lol, this guy’s full of it. I tried windows 11 for a few days. Absolutely horrible, went back to 10 and that’s the first time I’ve ever backpedaled on a new OS.

    • @onatics
      @onatics 2 роки тому

      haha

  • @DarthFurball
    @DarthFurball 3 роки тому +10

    5-8% is still a HUGE drop in performance. Throwing power at inefficient architecture just masks the issue.

    • @Wumbee.
      @Wumbee. 3 роки тому

      Well he also played the game he said that the 5% drop did not actually do anything

    • @Wumbee.
      @Wumbee. 3 роки тому +1

      Also it can turn a old laptop into something usable

    • @sebimmbasti
      @sebimmbasti 4 місяці тому

      It's just like programming in Java: because the code is incredibly slow, you have to buy a bigger computer.
      Companies, worldwide.

  • @epicexposure
    @epicexposure 3 роки тому +3

    I'm so glad you are around to clarify that for us :) Thanks!

  • @qaz1109
    @qaz1109 3 роки тому +4

    My i5 6600 with all features including Memory integrity on has no performance impact so far.

  • @raypalmer5125
    @raypalmer5125 3 роки тому +27

    PC Gamer has become like GameRant/TheGamer. They publish a lot of GamerTM stuff so naturally they jumped on the Window 11 hate train without proper benchmarking.

  • @timothygibney159
    @timothygibney159 3 роки тому +2

    Then why did I get a 10% decline on my 9900k on cinebench R15 compared to 10?

  • @sobot_
    @sobot_ 3 роки тому +27

    Thank you thio! Straight to the point like usual :D

  • @Ryuzaki2100
    @Ryuzaki2100 3 роки тому +1

    Hi Thio, I just installed Windows 11. However, the audio is not playing. I uninstalled the audio device from admin and restarted but still when I booted it up again, I had to repeat the process. Should I update the driver?

    • @ThioJoe
      @ThioJoe  3 роки тому +1

      Probably

    • @anthonytech
      @anthonytech 3 роки тому

      Did you uninstall the audio device through device manager?

    • @Ryuzaki2100
      @Ryuzaki2100 3 роки тому

      @@anthonytech Yes.

  • @UltraGamerYT79
    @UltraGamerYT79 3 роки тому +18

    Thanks for the info Thio! I could play games properly now!

  • @TiagrajI
    @TiagrajI 3 роки тому

    Good to hear what you saw. Thanks. I disabled vbs based on that article. I undid the change.

  • @ninuola.
    @ninuola. 3 роки тому +4

    At this point, I think Microsoft should just create a gaming tier of their operating systems. As they have Home, Professional, they need a Gaming version that is tuned specifically for gaming.

    • @xnyte
      @xnyte 3 роки тому

      xbox

    • @ninuola.
      @ninuola. 3 роки тому

      @@xnyte that's a console. And you can't install its OS on PC.

    • @xnyte
      @xnyte 3 роки тому

      @@ninuola. Xbox is just running a version of windows 10 dedicated for gaming and only designed for gaming nothing more. Just like how PlayStation has a Linux base architecture. You are saying Microsoft makes any other types of OS? I’m just replying to what you said about how they should make a OS dedicated to gaming. They did. Didn’t say anything about where it should be :)

  • @CMak3r
    @CMak3r 3 роки тому +1

    After I turn off this feature on my Ryzen 3900x, system lag is pretty much gone (for examples laggy WDM behavior when dragging windows to second monitor is no longer presented, and task manager responsiveness is also become snappy). I also disable virtualization in BIOS and turn off Hyper-V component (goodbye virtual machine). I can’t do additional benchmarking for now due to high workload

  • @brutalistconcrete25
    @brutalistconcrete25 7 місяців тому +4

    isnt this the guy that made tech troll videos now hes trying to be serious? boy who cries wolf

  • @gunnarsundman6828
    @gunnarsundman6828 3 роки тому +1

    The most of Microsoft users aren't high education computer engineering computer experts or anything like that. Try to remember that.

  • @JessicaFEREM
    @JessicaFEREM 3 роки тому +4

    Overall in my and my friends experience, windows 11 has generally felt more polished and smoother than windows 10 in terms of general feel and performance. There has been less times where the system hogs a significant amount of resources to do a background task

  • @ramanmono
    @ramanmono 3 роки тому +1

    So is it go be possible for proper upgrade for first gen Ryzen?

  • @nukmuk
    @nukmuk 3 роки тому +3

    I think adding the standard deviation of the 3 tests could be useful to see if it's just run to run differences

  • @AlmightyGTR
    @AlmightyGTR 3 роки тому

    Really insightful video. Very good job!!! Subscribed.

  • @milnez
    @milnez 3 роки тому +4

    I installed it eight hours ago despite seeing those reports, but I couldn’t believe those numbers and after it finished a pretty painless install it didn’t make a big difference to Cold War’s fps… looks good too

    • @notoriousbig3k
      @notoriousbig3k 3 роки тому

      depends on configuration what CPU and GPU new old components u have
      this guys test allot on old configurations

  • @StephenMcGregor1986
    @StephenMcGregor1986 3 роки тому +1

    Is this VBS stuff going to affect compatibility with things like VirtualBox at all ThioJoe?

  • @ShyDigi
    @ShyDigi 3 роки тому +18

    I feel like the dude in the article lied about his specs to prove a “point” and actually had unsupported hardware - which would explain the huge drop in performance.

    • @ThioJoe
      @ThioJoe  3 роки тому +5

      Eh i really doubt they would lie

    • @AmyraCarter
      @AmyraCarter 3 роки тому +2

      I agree with Joe, but it is possible that the hardware situation was less than ideal.

    • @ShyDigi
      @ShyDigi 3 роки тому

      @@ThioJoe yeah I’m just saying it’s a possibility lol. Plus with news nowadays it’s all about misconceptions and random pointless internet discourse, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility per se. but they probably were telling the truth, you’re right.

    • @safetyzone2962
      @safetyzone2962 3 роки тому

      If it's unsupported VBS wouldn't even turn itself on. I know because I have an R5 1600.

  • @SilentPrayerCG
    @SilentPrayerCG 5 місяців тому +1

    Apparently VBS was never enabled on my pc, If I remember correctly when I upgraded win10 to win11, VBS was disabled by default, (and enabled only if you do clean win 11 install), and people back then, already, said that it hits perfomance.
    But how do I even enable it? Because when I google how to enable disable it, it show only how to enable disable Memory Integrity, which one I can't even enable, because Logitech webcam driver.

    • @sparda9060
      @sparda9060 2 місяці тому

      in windows 11, turning off Memory Integrity also turns off Core Isolation. If you have Memory Integrity on, that also turns on Core Isolation.

    • @SilentPrayerCG
      @SilentPrayerCG 2 місяці тому

      @@sparda9060 i understand. But I can't enable stupid Memory Integrity because of damn Logitech doesn't give a f, about his drivers. Tho this old camera is still very good mic. (good enough to talk with people)

  • @Almighty_Flat_Earth
    @Almighty_Flat_Earth 3 роки тому +4

    The fact is Windows 11 is worse than vista and 8. Terrible. Anger. Frustration. Agitation. Agony. Pain. Depression. Governments should ban windows 11 and Microsoft until they bow down. Let's RESIST. Let's BOYCOTT. windows 11 is a collateral damage. Their good-bad cycle continues. Let's skip w11 altogether, and wait for Windows 12.

    • @iiIfeiithetechnerd
      @iiIfeiithetechnerd 8 місяців тому

      Windows Vista and windows 8 were underrated operating systems and windows 11 isn’t even that bad, but you do you

  • @akashcallofdutymobile8888
    @akashcallofdutymobile8888 3 роки тому +1

    I have installed windows 11 but I didn't notice and gaming problem and also have ryzen 5

  • @ravewonder
    @ravewonder 3 роки тому +5

    Liked how you explained your results without tearing down other people cheers!

  • @frostbornegaming6453
    @frostbornegaming6453 Рік тому

    i almost disabled it on my brand new windows 11 laptop, but i thought for a second and decided to look into it more, thanks for giving good info!

  • @nekogod
    @nekogod 3 роки тому +3

    I tested Horizon Zero Dawn specifically because of the article and I was getting around 10-15% more performance on Win11 vs Win10, the complete opposite to result in the article. On an AMD 5900x

  • @Tryton4551
    @Tryton4551 3 роки тому +1

    How do you even disable VBS?

    • @sebimmbasti
      @sebimmbasti 4 місяці тому

      registry: (Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\DeviceGuard, EnableVirtualizationBasedSecurity = 0)
      admin cmd: bcdedit /set hypervisorlaunchtype off
      Disable in Windows Security - Device Security - Core Isolation: Memory Integrity (this disables hvic)
      Bios: Disable Virtualization-Options - ONLY IF YOU DON'T NEED VBOX, VMWARE, WSL, SANDBOX.
      And be amazed at how fast the computer can be...

  • @JesseGuthrieSF
    @JesseGuthrieSF 3 роки тому +3

    In D3, I noticed less stuttering with VBS off. I'm using a 9900k on an Asus Maximus XI Extreme with 4.9Ghz all core.

  • @Justathought81
    @Justathought81 Рік тому

    Something odd ive noticed and im not sure if its related, in windows 11 Hyper-V is disabled by default - is that related to these security features or something else entirely?

  • @pyp2205
    @pyp2205 3 роки тому +11

    Some how just when I was watching this video. I saw an article about this, saying to disable VBS for faster performance. I was like "Ha you can't fool me! I don't even have Windows 11!".

    • @ckingpro
      @ckingpro 3 роки тому +1

      Ironically, you can turn on VBS in Windows 10 as well with Core Isolation in Windows Security (just like in Windows 11)

  • @itstieikj3165
    @itstieikj3165 2 роки тому +1

    then why I had no sudden fps drops from 200 to 20-1 in windows 10 but when I updated to windows 11 with the same apps

  • @KevinNguyen1
    @KevinNguyen1 3 роки тому +3

    Windows 11 is pretty much the same as Windows 10 in terms of performance for my laptop. There were some bsods at first but they went away.

  • @Makarov13778
    @Makarov13778 Рік тому +2

    I disabled memory integrity and got double the fps in WW3 and it stopped stuttering every 2 seconds, plus I was able to play it with higher settings.

  • @roadhouseguy
    @roadhouseguy 3 роки тому +4

    Thank you for all your research and data collection. This is great to see.
    I am also more concerned about what happens to frame timing. The 1% lows and 0.1% lows have a more user noticeable effect than the average frame to frame output per second. This is arguably where we see more important changes per cpu generation come to light in gaming performance. As you said more research is needed to collect more data.

  • @projeet1002
    @projeet1002 3 роки тому +1

    Sir, Can you tell me that how my HVCI was turned off by default

  • @FlowElectron
    @FlowElectron 3 роки тому +4

    actually for me, alot of my games have been smoother and less stuttery on windows 11

  • @kiyoungwon1725
    @kiyoungwon1725 2 роки тому +2

    Core Isolation is group of security feature that isolates Windows's core part with normal environment, usually through use of virtualization, which somewhat includes UEFI's secure boot. Microsoft refuses to explain what features are included in Core Isolation, or disclose detail of how they do that. (I suppose very few security specialists are aware of what is happening.)
    This grants clear advantage, as there are critical flaw within all IBM-PC compatible systems and thus OS based on IBM-PC compatibles also shares security flaw because of it. Recently Threat became critically apparent, especially after world realizing that very core nature of the CPU designs have fundermental flaw that cannot be cleared out. To prevent this, isolating critical, and nearly impossible to keep in check part of the system, both hardware and software requries protection through isolating core parts from normal environment by placing core into virtual environment.
    There are so many problems out there that we will never even know, but overall, problem became too serious to be ignored even for end users, and Microsoft decided to enforce security by forcing everyone to have Core Isolation feature. Their ultimate goal is placing every single core part of system in isolated environment, but for now machines lack capability of running such security feature without significant performance drops, thus Microsoft backed down a bit and delaying roll out a bit, which is reason why Memory Integrity is disabled by default.
    However, Post Gen 11 CPUs are capable of running even the Memory Integrity without notable performance cost, thus not running HVCI (memory integrity) is terrible idea if you are on newer devices.
    All the security that Microsoft is introducing, are not even able to meet the bare minimum. Microsoft rarely provides good security.... and they are introducing enforcement. This sounds like dangerous story hiding behind. If your system is capable of running all Core Isolation features without significant problem, just keep them on.

  • @DivineSword1
    @DivineSword1 3 роки тому +7

    Great and very informative 👍
    Keep up
    I found it to perform less doing very minimal tasks, be that graphics or processor dependant!
    Like explorer and app resizing animations, also scrolling is jittery!
    I am using a laptop, not the best specs in the world! But should fly through basic functions and graphical demands. Most of the stuttering I got happened while I was on battery life (tried on 2 different laptops, with same processors/graphics cards/ram).

    • @ZonyaZeraora
      @ZonyaZeraora 3 роки тому +1

      I think it's best to disable all fancy animations and blur effects on older hardware if you're going to be using it on battery power. Windows will keep all of it enabled at all times by default because it's technically capable of displaying it while running at full power, but that's not really ideal.

    • @DivineSword1
      @DivineSword1 3 роки тому

      @@ZonyaZeraora thanks for the tip!
      But I have already reverted back to windows 10, because I just couldn't handle to laggy explorer of windows 11, plus the inflated taskbar doesn't help with the viewing experience on my 13.3 inch (16:9) screen, & I can't have it auto-hide.

    • @ZonyaZeraora
      @ZonyaZeraora 3 роки тому +1

      @@DivineSword1 If you're on integrated Intel graphics you might want to still reduce animations and effects to increase stability (latest drivers cause memory leaks with some window animations enabled)

    • @DivineSword1
      @DivineSword1 3 роки тому

      @@ZonyaZeraora that's interesting. I have no knowledge of this memory leak thing!
      But I will try disabling animations & see what happens!

  • @Jeffrey_Wong
    @Jeffrey_Wong 3 роки тому

    VBS doesn't even seem to be available on my computer (2700X, GTX 1080). Is this a BIOS setting I need to change?

  • @Sector001ked
    @Sector001ked 3 роки тому +3

    My games run smoother on Windows 11 and the new Win 11 AMD graphics drivers! My 'only' complaint with Win 11 is the taskbar! The taskbar is a big step backwards, IMO.

  • @iliketurtles7947
    @iliketurtles7947 3 роки тому +1

    What about for VR games? Ive seen some reports say its fine for flat games but vr games dont run very well.

  • @rtoms
    @rtoms 3 роки тому +11

    It's not a problem to me because I can't upgrade to windows 11 on my potato pc
    Btw awesome video

    • @rtoms
      @rtoms 3 роки тому +2

      @Happy 99 I don't want my entire Home to blast

  • @BenWyldeZX
    @BenWyldeZX 3 роки тому

    Still in conflict if I should upgrade or not, there are a few things liek Start Menu and missing Folder Thumbnails that hold me back but eh.
    On a side note, what are those Weather Widgets and the wallpaper on your Desktop if I may ask?

  • @RichardPhillips1066
    @RichardPhillips1066 3 роки тому +5

    36 benchmarks my god my eyes glaze over just thinking about it :)

    • @ThioJoe
      @ThioJoe  3 роки тому +4

      Well the computer did all the work i just had to set it up and press start ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • @Kris_M
      @Kris_M 3 роки тому

      Go watch Hardware Unboxed, Steve will run multiple benchmarks on 30 games, multiple resolutions and multiple CPUs or GPUs.

  • @transformersrepublic5878
    @transformersrepublic5878 3 роки тому

    How can I check whether this is VBS is enabled or disabled ?

  • @knection1986
    @knection1986 3 роки тому +3

    I think its more pressing that win 11 isn't displaying time and date in the taskbar of all monitors in a multi monitor setup

  • @gamingfromjohnwayne
    @gamingfromjohnwayne 3 місяці тому +1

    Wont ur pc get viruses after u turn this off

    • @RainGamma
      @RainGamma 3 місяці тому +1

      @@gamingfromjohnwayne you are safe if you dont download sketchy software and random links. Windows defender and common sense is enough

  • @arcticblast702
    @arcticblast702 Рік тому +4

    Just disabled vbs windows 10 8086k. 100% improvement in some games like battlefield 1. Cyberbug doesn’t drop below 60 now. Disable that garbage.

  • @myvlog5112
    @myvlog5112 3 роки тому

    I like to know will it increase performance when you upgrade your windows 10 because have problems with my windows 10 game performance

  • @tzeffsmainchannel
    @tzeffsmainchannel 8 місяців тому +6

    *This dude has been lying since 2008!!* 😠

  • @Zenkai76
    @Zenkai76 7 місяців тому +1

    with data encryption it doesn't make it a little slower in load times? /doubt.

  • @wtflolomg
    @wtflolomg 3 роки тому +3

    ...complains about author sensationalizing the results of testing on one computer... then proceeds to counter the tests using a sample size of... one computer.
    It would have been nice to see at least AMD and latest generations included in the mix, but thanks for trying.

  • @christopherfortineux6937
    @christopherfortineux6937 3 роки тому +2

    I have seen zero gaming performance decrease with Windows 11. The only people I know that saw any issue weren't on the latest Nvidia driver that came out before Windows 11 and it was only on certain GPUs. This is just what I saw on reddit so far. I did notice that this was specifically on Ryzen cpus and Nvidia gpus maybe there is some correlation there (again they for some reason didn't install the W11 driver yet and for some reason geforce didn't give them the update - mine did so idk what happened there for them). If anything % lows etc have improved with games etc.

  • @bologna3048
    @bologna3048 3 роки тому +4

    It's a compatibility issue with specific games and possibly some hardware, the point is VBS is spotty depending on the games you play and in a lot of cases you're better off turning it off. Other than that, Win 11 is even more bloated than w10 so of course that's gonna eat away at performance.
    This is why you wait to upgrade.

  • @Freeway7
    @Freeway7 3 роки тому

    Well the thing is can we just disable VBS while playing a game and when we stop turn back on VBS no ??!

  • @Adonis_NL
    @Adonis_NL 3 роки тому +1

    10 years ago, I really thought you were being sarcastic in every tips and tricks video!😂😘

  • @Povilaz
    @Povilaz 3 роки тому +3

    As if I was able to upgrade to Windows 11!

  • @killermoon635
    @killermoon635 3 роки тому +1

    Windows 10 has VBS but turned off by default
    Windows 11 has VBS turned on if you do clean install but if you upgrade from windows 10, it will just copy windows 10 setting (which is off by default)

  • @IvanRiveraStagea
    @IvanRiveraStagea 3 роки тому +3

    I've been using Memory Integrity / Core Isolation since it rolled out in Windows 10. It's no different in Windows 11.

  • @arhzn
    @arhzn 3 роки тому +1

    lets go, i installed windows 11 like 50 years ago

  • @atnfn
    @atnfn 3 роки тому +6

    I've never had malware (that I've noticed at least) on any of the PCs I've owned for the last 20 years so I'm not gonna give up any performance for that feature. Hardware unboxed tested a few games too, it did reduce performance by max around 10% in 2 games they tested, cyberpunk and something else, in another game it didn't really reduce performance at all (F1 2021).

    • @FaustRSI
      @FaustRSI 2 роки тому +1

      Exactly. Wouldn't give up even 1% of performance for security.

  • @leonic458
    @leonic458 2 роки тому

    I uninstalled it today. I tested games on windows 10 and it run flawlessly and no heat, fans are quiet with graphics all set High. This is on Rog flow x13. The changes to cause performance issue is forcing games at full resolution i turned off nvidia, its still there.
    I'm still looking through how to fix this

  • @BlackSmokeDMax
    @BlackSmokeDMax 3 роки тому +5

    4-6% in itself seems like a huge drop, just not in relation to that 28% figure.

  • @richardbogan7352
    @richardbogan7352 3 роки тому +1

    In a world of wannabe techs (you know, guys that know how to update drivers and maybe reimage their system thinking it makes them a "techie"), I'm not surprised there is so much misinformation in circulation. The sheeple will adopt anything, especially if it's written in an article and published on the interwebs. Thanks man for being a stand up dude that real techs know they can trust. I've been in IT for almost 30 years and you constantly bring up topics that I find interesting.

  • @lexiconmango6280
    @lexiconmango6280 3 роки тому +3

    yeah about 5% lower performance.
    so in rdr2 (1650, 10750h) i get 40-45fps average on ultra, with vbs disabled i get
    43-48fps...

  • @salvadorestrella5951
    @salvadorestrella5951 3 роки тому

    I have huawei matebook d14 ryzen 7 is it recommendable to upgrade to windows11 since my laptop isn't powerful as ROG laptop

  • @discount1493
    @discount1493 3 роки тому +3

    ok but imagine not using linux.

  • @moisto_o3036
    @moisto_o3036 3 роки тому

    When I installed win 11 it changed the power mode to low power. Maybe that could be his problem.

  • @ZeFoxii
    @ZeFoxii 3 роки тому +6

    I remember the days when he would tell us how to download more ram XD

    • @george87235
      @george87235 3 роки тому +1

      Does that work btw?

    • @hasanj.4356
      @hasanj.4356 3 роки тому +1

      @@george87235 it totally does

  • @pvideveloper8783
    @pvideveloper8783 2 роки тому +2

    i have i7 3770. this VBS must be OFF because it is impact my gaming performance A LOT, frame drops on every games and benchmark.

  • @theviking2105
    @theviking2105 3 роки тому +4

    I didn't have these issues my games feel like there running smoother since i got windows 11

    • @osfbro
      @osfbro 3 роки тому +1

      yeah mine too

    • @safetyzone2962
      @safetyzone2962 3 роки тому

      Same, even on an unsupported R5 1600.

    • @osfbro
      @osfbro 3 роки тому

      @@safetyzone2962 oh :O

  • @payn419
    @payn419 3 роки тому

    Does win11 still prevents you from having windows updates if you have unsupported CPU?

  • @kqzo
    @kqzo 3 роки тому +5

    "don't disable vbs"
    meanwhile me who isnt installing windows 11 in the first place

    • @LubomirGeorgiev
      @LubomirGeorgiev 3 роки тому

      VBS is a thing in Win10 as well. Just isn't enabled by default.