This may be the most educational and ‘enlightening’ Golf video I’ve seen in all these years of UA-cam. Thanks for sharing your pearls of wisdom. This was really eye opening.
Nice story, Pavin was my favorite golfer during the late 80-90’s! I still use his putting grip to this day! As I’m older now and still prefer to Use older persimmons and blades. I’m just trying to get some distance back… That rapid move and strike thru the ball, seems a lot like McCrary’s! Hit the ball a straight as you can point! Which still works for me when I use it. I’ve recently stumbled upon the Juju swing and was going to try it later this morning! And of course I’ll see if I can try your hit as well. Should make for an interesting round!
I played with a kid not long ago who could hit the ball 360 and did ... on holes that he shouldn't have. I shot -2 that day and he was at least +10, if not more, and pissed off that I kicked his ass. I kept telling him, "this is not a driver hole ..." He wouldn't listen. He said he was playing Bryson golf ... "drive it as far as you can."
@@johnnysanchez4996 That kid was 6' - 5" and about 27 years old and worked as a caddy at a country club. He had a great athletic swing but just didn't know how to "play" very well.
I’ve been working on your technique for the past week. I’ve shot lower scores than I have in a long time. I don’t know if I’m doing it correctly but I’m focusing on the aggressive lead arm rotation at impact. The balls are reliably straighter with a touch of fade but I will take what I can get. I shot under par for the first time ever. Lucky birdie putts but I attribute the journey from from tee to green with what you have showed. The ball isn’t go as far as I’m used to but it is a good trade off.
The book "every shot counts" by the guy who created strokes gained answers this question and yes longer is statistically very significant. There has very rarely been a number 1 player who wasn't well above average in driver distance. Tiger, Phil, Jack, Snead, Norman, Etc. Guys like Pavin and Luke Donald are an anomaly but even those guys compared to regular golfers are long hitters. Being long only matters with driver and 3 wood but it is definitely an advantage. Also longer hitters don't tend to be more wayward as people seem to assume. I would agree though that accuracy is more important. It's just that it's not one or the other.
This is simply false. Pavin was not long compared to regular golfers. There have been many short hitters that led the tour money lists over the years. Billy Casper, Bill Rogers, Lee Trevino, Chi Chi, so many great players were not bombers. Ideally, long and straight like Norman, Snead...Hogan.. sure. But this assumption that simply longer will offer strokes gained is not true... certainly not on any quality golf course.
@@lagpressure regular golfers. Not pros. Average driving distance for amatures is still less than Pavin hit it. Look at the stats. Top pros are almost always long. Tiger and Phil proved that a little wayward is less important than distance for driving. After that accuracy is of course more important but like Hogan said "the harder I hit it the straighter it goes" so distance and accuracy are not in opposition. All the people you named were only short hitters compared to very long hitters.
Such a great message..... I love thinking golf and strategy too. Hey John you ever think you could "level up" by just thinking it so?.... having an epiphany or arriving at a conclusion about any aspect that helps game besides physical practice
I do that too! If im not golfing or if im done golfing for the day im always replaying shots in my head and always trying to sharpen my mind of the swing, contact, i think it really does help, i love it!
The inner game! Sound advice, John! Thank you from another John in Canada . Now back to that 350 yards : ) . Can you analyze someone,s golf swing by seeing à video?
John, wanted to know the best way to add weight to a club from your discussions with Brendon. I’ve added lead tape to my driver head, but it only went from 10.6 oz to just under 12oz. Does it really just need a boat load of lead tape? Is there any other options?
John this is great. Thank you so much for this content. You wanna get out an play sometime? I am out in Concord pretty close to you. Our beloved mare island is no longer in operation, do you get out to Blue Rock?
@@lagpressure awesome, hope to see you out there sometime. Just got these old flat lie hogan powerthrusts I can’t wait to game. What’s your favorite course to play around the Bay Area?
Whilst I think your overall point is a good one, and in modern golf it's still shown by someone like Morikawa who has such exceptional irons he can make up for his being 20~ yards behind the big hitters. I do think you undersell distance here, yeah they may be 25 yards behind on a straight par 5 which tbh can still be the difference between a 4 iron in and a 3 wood in which has big scoring ramifications but also that extra length in my experience opens up a lot more lines on par 4s that will result in far more difference in the distance. Take for example at the masters, can't remember which par 4 on the front nine but Rory and quite a lot of the contenders in the field could go straight over the corner and leave themselves a lob wedge in with their length and actually have a pretty forgiving landing area whereas Tiger who is probably about 25~ yards behind the big hitters now could not, so he had to take a line to the corner where the bunkers were with his 2 iron and had I think a 6 iron in to a tough green, Rory makes an easy birdie after a pretty normal drive for him and a good wedge in, think Tiger made a tough par. At my home course I can think of probably 3-4 holes where I can take a line that is completely inaccessible to players who hit 25 yards shorter than me because they can't carry the trees or water I go over and those holes are made so much easier by it. But ya I do agree with your overall point, you can hit it as far as you want you've still gotta play the rest of your shots well to score well, I just think distance is far more of an advantage than just an extra 20 up the fairway.
it's always advantage no matter how you interpret it. if you are speaking in a conditional aspect then sure hitting to a specific yardage works. It always come down to short game, putting...
Although I cannot disagree with any of your points, I do have one question. I have been led to believe that the longer holes ( Par 5's ) have always been seen as the "scoring" holes - many times the pros putt for eagle. Would length then be an advantage? I take your point and personally would much rather continue to improve my short game than to chase 20-30+ yards more distance with my driver - but fun to dream. Thank you for you content !
You only need short game cuz you miss greens, you miss greens cuz you approach shots are to far away. Your approach shots are too far away because you can’t drive the ball farther. 20 yards is 2 less clubs if you’re hitting 8iron instead of 6 you are guaranteed to be hitting more greens. then it’s all on your putting and there’s a lot less pressure when you have 2 putts for par because you chipping/pitching to 3ft every time is unlikely and you make more birdies the more gir you hit
Excellent points to ponder. I'm about a 12-14 handicap at age 72 from white tees. My buddy who is 7 years younger and played in high school while I took up the game at age 45 can drive farther then me on 2 out of 3 drives. However, I can beat him most every time we play. I shoot low 40s for 9 holes while he's usually shooting about 50. My pitching, chipping and putting is better. I can hit out of trouble better than him. His bad drives are worse than my bad drives. My typical drives are 215 - 220 yards with an occasional 235. But I'd still like to drive it 30 yards farther than my typical drives and still hit the fairway!!!
You’re not looking at this the right way. No, you don’t hit it “as far as possible” on par 3s or approach shots on par 4s, but you would rather hit 7 iron than 3 iron. If a guy hits a 330 yard drive on a par 4, even in the rough, and you hit it 260 in the fairway he’s still hitting a wedge in and you’re hitting a 3 or 4 iron. It matters. The stats bear it out…consistently. Look at Scott Fawcett’s DECADE data. He has it figured out.
I hit 350 yards 2 times in my early 30's. I turn 47 in November and can still hit swing speeds of 134 but cannot seem to get passed 310 yards. I get your point but for reals hitting 350 is so FUN! I can outdrive pretty much everyone in my league with my 2 hybrid but it is nowhere near as FUN!
@@johnnysanchez4996 had my wife and another witness for my first one and a group of work colleagues for my second. 100% hit 350! Most pros certainly bomb it past 350 these days!
@@zarlodious1 Rory’s probably one of the longest on tour. In 2021 he averaged 311 yards. His longest drive on tour was 366. You can’t even begin to hit a driver like Rory. I use to think I bomb it too until I watched the pros hit live.
@@johnnysanchez4996 i clocked 141mph head speed over the weekend and a top speed of 145 mph I most assuredly can hit it 350 still. Just haven’t on course yet. The range I practice the hill is 270 yards away and sail it far over the hill multiple times a range session.
Corey Pavin was a awesome ball striker! Watch him play in the 90’s. He was professor at working the ball. Di not know that you went to college it’s him! ⛳️😎
The comparison isn’t me to you. The comparison is me to me if I could swing my clubs faster consistently. I may not be able to beat you, but if it’s me playing against me who has the potential to hit two fewer clubs on the par 3s/ other approach shots. If you take Corey Pavin verses Corey Pavin with 10mph more swing speed; My bet is going to be on the faster one if swing speed is the only variable.
The ten nearest golf courses to where I live are all under 6800 yards. Narrow courses are much tougher than long wide open courses. Hitting the ball far is not difficult. Hitting the ball straight is much more difficult on a narrow course. The course where I played for years Mare Island Golf Club was super narrow with postage stamp greens. 6300 yards. I took many pros out there and collegiate All American's out there... lowest I saw any of them shoot was 73.... three over par. OB, lost ball, hazards everywhere. Like walking through a golfing mine field. I would only hit a persimmon driver 5 times a round out there. Too narrow to be hitting driver everywhere, so the course played much longer than the yardage. They had a Pepsi Tour event out there... 74 was the lowest score any pro could shoot there. Length is a must? Depends upon the course you are playing. If you are only playing 7500 courses, wide open with big greens.. bring your frying pan, a cart, a six pack and a few friends. You won't see me out there. I have zero interest in playing a golf course that doesn't require me to shape the ball and think about trajectory and approach angles. Boring. I'd rather be kayak fishing.
@@lagpressure i meant length is must in todays game because usga r&a pga and whoever else makes it that way... they wanna act like they have no part in it by lengthing courses and gas lighting the issue of technology and equipment... they know damn well they created a monster at the sake of integrity of the game
@@tonybarber420 I still play the classic game with persimmon and blades... I just am more selective about the courses I play and whom I play with. A group of golf purists stalking around a tight classic track with small greens and persimmon and blade irons is still on the menu in 2022. We can still do it until they close all those golf courses over water issues, human rights issues or sold off to developers. A lot of good track still around. I have zero interest in playing the tour at my age, so I don't really concern myself with what is going on today in the pro game. What I do like is going out and playing a classic track and shooting 66 and knowing that I played the same apples to apples game that the previous generations did with the same gear. Means more to me that I did it that way rather than pretending or kidding myself by driving the ball 50 yards farther down the fairway and wedging into every hole. We have to create our own reality in today's world... whatever that is for each individual. Simply put, I just prefer playing a golf course in the manner in which it was intended by the architect. It's a crazy concept...!
This may be the most educational and ‘enlightening’ Golf video I’ve seen in all these years of UA-cam. Thanks for sharing your pearls of wisdom. This was really eye opening.
I think it needed to be said... thanks for your support...
Nice story, Pavin was my favorite golfer during the late 80-90’s!
I still use his putting grip to this day!
As I’m older now and still prefer to Use older persimmons and blades.
I’m just trying to get some distance back…
That rapid move and strike thru the ball, seems a lot like McCrary’s!
Hit the ball a straight as you can point!
Which still works for me when I use it.
I’ve recently stumbled upon the Juju swing and was going to try it later this morning!
And of course I’ll see if I can try your hit as well.
Should make for an interesting round!
Good sound advice for any level of player. Thanks
I played with a kid not long ago who could hit the ball 360 and did ... on holes that he shouldn't have. I shot -2 that day and he was at least +10, if not more, and pissed off that I kicked his ass. I kept telling him, "this is not a driver hole ..." He wouldn't listen. He said he was playing Bryson golf ... "drive it as far as you can."
Most pros don’t hit it 350 lol. That kid definitely didn’t hit it that far.
@@johnnysanchez4996 That kid was 6' - 5" and about 27 years old and worked as a caddy at a country club. He had a great athletic swing but just didn't know how to "play" very well.
I’ve been working on your technique for the past week. I’ve shot lower scores than I have in a long time. I don’t know if I’m doing it correctly but I’m focusing on the aggressive lead arm rotation at impact. The balls are reliably straighter with a touch of fade but I will take what I can get. I shot under par for the first time ever. Lucky birdie putts but I attribute the journey from from tee to green with what you have showed. The ball isn’t go as far as I’m used to but it is a good trade off.
Fuck yeah bro!
Excellent video look forward to more
Right on John, right on!
Extra distance helps when you are on the wrong tee box for your ability.
Forwarding to Rors
The book "every shot counts" by the guy who created strokes gained answers this question and yes longer is statistically very significant. There has very rarely been a number 1 player who wasn't well above average in driver distance. Tiger, Phil, Jack, Snead, Norman, Etc. Guys like Pavin and Luke Donald are an anomaly but even those guys compared to regular golfers are long hitters. Being long only matters with driver and 3 wood but it is definitely an advantage. Also longer hitters don't tend to be more wayward as people seem to assume. I would agree though that accuracy is more important. It's just that it's not one or the other.
This is simply false. Pavin was not long compared to regular golfers. There have been many short hitters that led the tour money lists over the years. Billy Casper, Bill Rogers, Lee Trevino, Chi Chi, so many great players were not bombers. Ideally, long and straight like Norman, Snead...Hogan.. sure. But this assumption that simply longer will offer strokes gained is not true... certainly not on any quality golf course.
@@lagpressure regular golfers. Not pros. Average driving distance for amatures is still less than Pavin hit it. Look at the stats. Top pros are almost always long. Tiger and Phil proved that a little wayward is less important than distance for driving. After that accuracy is of course more important but like Hogan said "the harder I hit it the straighter it goes" so distance and accuracy are not in opposition. All the people you named were only short hitters compared to very long hitters.
@@lagpressure 2022 average driving distance for men is 219 yards. Shorter than Pavin with modern balls and drivers
@@lagpressure i lpoked up Trevino. Averaged 259 in 1980. Not as long as Jack who hit it 269 on average that year but not that far behind
It may matter on todays pga tour where they got rid of the rough to get back at the USGA after they changed the rules on square grooves...
Right on the button!
Great video 👍
Such a great message..... I love thinking golf and strategy too.
Hey John you ever think you could "level up" by just thinking it so?.... having an epiphany or arriving at a conclusion about any aspect that helps game besides physical practice
I just use common sense and toss in a dose of critical thinking... that's really all it is.
I do that too! If im not golfing or if im done golfing for the day im always replaying shots in my head and always trying to sharpen my mind of the swing, contact, i think it really does help, i love it!
@@tonybarber420 Some of us are just wired that way.... as long as folks keep it fun and positive 😝
@@jimmypeach8838 to me hitting the bad shots and then trying not to make the same mistake is just about as fun as making birds and eagles
@@tonybarber420 wow thats a great baller attitude 💪
The inner game! Sound advice, John! Thank you from another John in Canada . Now back to that 350 yards : ) . Can you analyze someone,s golf swing by seeing à video?
Of course..
As I was told by a great golfer friend many years ago " golf is a game of accuracy not distance".
John, wanted to know the best way to add weight to a club from your discussions with Brendon. I’ve added lead tape to my driver head, but it only went from 10.6 oz to just under 12oz. Does it really just need a boat load of lead tape? Is there any other options?
Great video!!!!!
John this is great. Thank you so much for this content. You wanna get out an play sometime? I am out in Concord pretty close to you. Our beloved mare island is no longer in operation, do you get out to Blue Rock?
Was out there yesterday... (Blue Rock)
@@lagpressure awesome, hope to see you out there sometime. Just got these old flat lie hogan powerthrusts I can’t wait to game. What’s your favorite course to play around the Bay Area?
Whilst I think your overall point is a good one, and in modern golf it's still shown by someone like Morikawa who has such exceptional irons he can make up for his being 20~ yards behind the big hitters. I do think you undersell distance here, yeah they may be 25 yards behind on a straight par 5 which tbh can still be the difference between a 4 iron in and a 3 wood in which has big scoring ramifications but also that extra length in my experience opens up a lot more lines on par 4s that will result in far more difference in the distance. Take for example at the masters, can't remember which par 4 on the front nine but Rory and quite a lot of the contenders in the field could go straight over the corner and leave themselves a lob wedge in with their length and actually have a pretty forgiving landing area whereas Tiger who is probably about 25~ yards behind the big hitters now could not, so he had to take a line to the corner where the bunkers were with his 2 iron and had I think a 6 iron in to a tough green, Rory makes an easy birdie after a pretty normal drive for him and a good wedge in, think Tiger made a tough par. At my home course I can think of probably 3-4 holes where I can take a line that is completely inaccessible to players who hit 25 yards shorter than me because they can't carry the trees or water I go over and those holes are made so much easier by it. But ya I do agree with your overall point, you can hit it as far as you want you've still gotta play the rest of your shots well to score well, I just think distance is far more of an advantage than just an extra 20 up the fairway.
Can I learn your way of swinging the golf club . I’m a 82 yr old student of Golf. Where do you teach golf if you don’t mind me asking ?
I teach right on your laptop or iphone. advancedballstriking.com
it's always advantage no matter how you interpret it. if you are speaking in a conditional aspect then sure hitting to a specific yardage works. It always come down to short game, putting...
Although I cannot disagree with any of your points, I do have one question. I have been led to believe that the longer holes ( Par 5's ) have always been seen as the "scoring" holes - many times the pros putt for eagle. Would length then be an advantage? I take your point and personally would much rather continue to improve my short game than to chase 20-30+ yards more distance with my driver - but fun to dream. Thank you for you content !
You only need short game cuz you miss greens, you miss greens cuz you approach shots are to far away. Your approach shots are too far away because you can’t drive the ball farther. 20 yards is 2 less clubs if you’re hitting 8iron instead of 6 you are guaranteed to be hitting more greens. then it’s all on your putting and there’s a lot less pressure when you have 2 putts for par because you chipping/pitching to 3ft every time is unlikely and you make more birdies the more gir you hit
I would recommend to you "Every Shot Counts", by Mark Broadie.
Excellent points to ponder. I'm about a 12-14 handicap at age 72 from white tees. My buddy who is 7 years younger and played in high school while I took up the game at age 45 can drive farther then me on 2 out of 3 drives. However, I can beat him most every time we play. I shoot low 40s for 9 holes while he's usually shooting about 50. My pitching, chipping and putting is better. I can hit out of trouble better than him. His bad drives are worse than my bad drives. My typical drives are 215 - 220 yards with an occasional 235. But I'd still like to drive it 30 yards farther than my typical drives and still hit the fairway!!!
rotate harder going through the strike.. level shoulders and you will pick up some yards.
Facts…..
You’re not looking at this the right way. No, you don’t hit it “as far as possible” on par 3s or approach shots on par 4s, but you would rather hit 7 iron than 3 iron. If a guy hits a 330 yard drive on a par 4, even in the rough, and you hit it 260 in the fairway he’s still hitting a wedge in and you’re hitting a 3 or 4 iron. It matters. The stats bear it out…consistently. Look at Scott Fawcett’s DECADE data. He has it figured out.
I hit 350 yards 2 times in my early 30's. I turn 47 in November and can still hit swing speeds of 134 but cannot seem to get passed 310 yards. I get your point but for reals hitting 350 is so FUN! I can outdrive pretty much everyone in my league with my 2 hybrid but it is nowhere near as FUN!
You think you hit it 350 but you never have. Most pros can’t hit that far.
@@johnnysanchez4996 had my wife and another witness for my first one and a group of work colleagues for my second. 100% hit 350! Most pros certainly bomb it past 350 these days!
@@zarlodious1 Rory’s probably one of the longest on tour. In 2021 he averaged 311 yards. His longest drive on tour was 366. You can’t even begin to hit a driver like Rory. I use to think I bomb it too until I watched the pros hit live.
@@johnnysanchez4996 i clocked 141mph head speed over the weekend and a top speed of 145 mph I most assuredly can hit it 350 still. Just haven’t on course yet. The range I practice the hill is 270 yards away and sail it far over the hill multiple times a range session.
@@zarlodious1 Dam must be nice!
Corey Pavin was a awesome ball striker! Watch him play in the 90’s. He was professor at working the ball. Di not know that you went to college it’s him! ⛳️😎
Corey was one of the finest striker's I ever played with. Total ball control. Courses got too wide open and took away his great advantage of accuracy.
One of the shortest hitters today has the lowest score in PGA history!
Could always hit it 350 yards and straight too :-)
I hit the ball far 280 to 310 and lose pretty much all the time to a guy that drives it about 240 to 250. He is a 4 handicap and I am a 6.
The comparison isn’t me to you. The comparison is me to me if I could swing my clubs faster consistently. I may not be able to beat you, but if it’s me playing against me who has the potential to hit two fewer clubs on the par 3s/ other approach shots. If you take Corey Pavin verses Corey Pavin with 10mph more swing speed; My bet is going to be on the faster one if swing speed is the only variable.
Nope..
@@lagpressure cool. I’ll leave the critical thinking to Scott Fawcett and Mark Brodie.
Were the courses even 7k yards like they are now. Length is a must these days and pga and others wanna act like they have no oart in it....
The ten nearest golf courses to where I live are all under 6800 yards. Narrow courses are much tougher than long wide open courses. Hitting the ball far is not difficult. Hitting the ball straight is much more difficult on a narrow course. The course where I played for years Mare Island Golf Club was super narrow with postage stamp greens. 6300 yards. I took many pros out there and collegiate All American's out there... lowest I saw any of them shoot was 73.... three over par. OB, lost ball, hazards everywhere. Like walking through a golfing mine field. I would only hit a persimmon driver 5 times a round out there. Too narrow to be hitting driver everywhere, so the course played much longer than the yardage. They had a Pepsi Tour event out there... 74 was the lowest score any pro could shoot there. Length is a must? Depends upon the course you are playing. If you are only playing 7500 courses, wide open with big greens.. bring your frying pan, a cart, a six pack and a few friends. You won't see me out there. I have zero interest in playing a golf course that doesn't require me to shape the ball and think about trajectory and approach angles. Boring. I'd rather be kayak fishing.
@@lagpressure i meant length is must in todays game because usga r&a pga and whoever else makes it that way... they wanna act like they have no part in it by lengthing courses and gas lighting the issue of technology and equipment... they know damn well they created a monster at the sake of integrity of the game
@@tonybarber420 I still play the classic game with persimmon and blades... I just am more selective about the courses I play and whom I play with. A group of golf purists stalking around a tight classic track with small greens and persimmon and blade irons is still on the menu in 2022. We can still do it until they close all those golf courses over water issues, human rights issues or sold off to developers. A lot of good track still around. I have zero interest in playing the tour at my age, so I don't really concern myself with what is going on today in the pro game. What I do like is going out and playing a classic track and shooting 66 and knowing that I played the same apples to apples game that the previous generations did with the same gear. Means more to me that I did it that way rather than pretending or kidding myself by driving the ball 50 yards farther down the fairway and wedging into every hole. We have to create our own reality in today's world... whatever that is for each individual. Simply put, I just prefer playing a golf course in the manner in which it was intended by the architect. It's a crazy concept...!
ƤＲＯ𝓂Ｏ𝕤ᗰ 😠