Would An Airtime Limit Save Melee

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  • Опубліковано 10 лют 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 625

  • @ChalerYT
    @ChalerYT  2 роки тому +423

    Yo just a reminder to keep it civil this ain't a leffen hate area

    • @darnelljenkins5972
      @darnelljenkins5972 2 роки тому +242

      I respectfully hate leffen

    • @lebigpeanutguy9996
      @lebigpeanutguy9996 2 роки тому +77

      It’s an effen hate area since he dropped his L

    • @Aflay1
      @Aflay1 2 роки тому +81

      I mean, I won't hate Leffen for having rational, reasonable opinions that breed conversation and improvement in the smash community.
      The 90% of the time Leffen DOES say stupidass things that bring down the community, deride and instigate, ultimately horrible shit. I will definitely continue to hate Leffen for that no matter what anyone says. I will never acquiesce his egotistical, oppressive, absolute jerkass of a man tendencies whatsoever.

    • @freddiesimmons1394
      @freddiesimmons1394 2 роки тому +27

      But I want to

    • @PJammin_Out
      @PJammin_Out 2 роки тому +17

      cringe

  • @justsomeguy7042
    @justsomeguy7042 2 роки тому +1655

    I don’t think the community needs an airtime limit. It definitely needs a Leffen saying things limit.

    • @noticeme694
      @noticeme694 2 роки тому +111

      everything leffen says basically means "this players playstyle is annoying and i dislike it."

    • @PapaBingles
      @PapaBingles 2 роки тому +7

      Creating discussion and discourse is p healthy. This video is super useful, nothing wrong with starting conversation.

    • @fullysemiautomatic5618
      @fullysemiautomatic5618 2 роки тому +81

      @@PapaBingles but leffen is just being a baby, it’s like when you whoop your little brother in Mario kart and he goes “mooom he’s cheating 😭”

    • @justsomeguy7042
      @justsomeguy7042 2 роки тому +6

      @@PapaBingles it’s just a goof dude..

    • @deliverysushi3777
      @deliverysushi3777 2 роки тому

      Community needs a stop getting mad at salty melee pro player talking shit limit

  • @jordandutcher393
    @jordandutcher393 2 роки тому +93

    "Does he just want HBox to hold forward against a character like Fox and just lose?"
    Yes

    • @aloha8389
      @aloha8389 17 днів тому

      Meanwhile Cody has a 77% winrate against Hbox and has beaten him in the last 5 sets they played lol

  • @t00nbink
    @t00nbink 2 роки тому +428

    I do think it's funny that he said "I'll quit the game if the rules don't change".
    He is literally giving us an incentive to not implement an air time limit lol.

    • @343Films
      @343Films 2 роки тому +6

      💯

    • @everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713
      @everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713 2 роки тому +2

      i dont agree, despite being really annoying i really do think he’s one of the most entertaining players to watch ever. oh well. there’s other foxes and i guess everybody’s gotta retire one day

    • @t00nbink
      @t00nbink 2 роки тому +25

      @@everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713 His gameplay is really entertaining, even his sheik is really cool. But for me the whining isn't worth it, there are for me indeed enough other cool players out there.

    • @TetraBui
      @TetraBui 2 роки тому

      ua-cam.com/video/xU6HkfjkmzI/v-deo.html
      ​@@everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713

    • @everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713
      @everyonesaidmynamewasstupi3713 2 роки тому +2

      @@TetraBui yeah i’ve seen that, i know about all that, i’m just talking strictly gameplay he’s a hype player

  • @Beastmd
    @Beastmd 2 роки тому +813

    A problem with an air time limit would also mean that leffen could purposely camp, making the game longer and in turn, increasing the chances of a floaty reaching the air time limit

    • @Sonick92
      @Sonick92 2 роки тому +99

      GROUND TIME LIMIT!

    • @eragon78
      @eragon78 2 роки тому +166

      Thats the point. The reason leffen bitches about stuff like this is because he wants puff players to have to approach him instead of the other way around.
      He just wants free wins without having to actually work for it. Especially since fox already beats puff anyways he has no real excuse. Its just him being salty that he has to actually work for wins.

    • @BURRDAWG_
      @BURRDAWG_ 2 роки тому +5

      @@eragon78 masterful

    • @bawbehh
      @bawbehh 2 роки тому +151

      @@Sonick92 there should be an air time limit, a grab time limit, and ground limit. Actually you know what. Just combine all those and make a time limit.
      Boom saved melee

    • @hughmungus99
      @hughmungus99 2 роки тому +27

      @@bawbehh lmao bro came full circle

  • @cautiouse
    @cautiouse 2 роки тому +594

    As Samus, I think I’ve had more foxes run away and laser for over 5 mins than hbox floating in the air for 5 or more

    • @TakumiJoyconBoyz
      @TakumiJoyconBoyz 2 роки тому +96

      Seriously. Also, Leffen is the perfect example of that kind of Fox. Dude laser camps all the time.

    • @patrickburke2187
      @patrickburke2187 2 роки тому +16

      Of course you’ve had more foxes camp you than you’ve been camped by Hbox.
      He is only one man.

    • @braxinIV
      @braxinIV 2 роки тому +87

      @@patrickburke2187 which makes Leffen’s proposal that much more ridiculous. He’s legit trying to implement a rule that would realistically only affect one or two people.

    • @prizm9515
      @prizm9515 2 роки тому

      Same bru

    • @apocalypseap
      @apocalypseap 2 роки тому +4

      That's it we need a laser limit lmaoooo

  • @syntax2679
    @syntax2679 2 роки тому +867

    "Leffen has matured guys give him a chance"

    • @noahmay7708
      @noahmay7708 2 роки тому +8

      Everyone john's at one point or another

    • @FabschOblivion669
      @FabschOblivion669 2 роки тому +109

      The only people who somehow manage to be bigger clowns than Leffen himself are Leffen fans/apologists

    • @alvarogarrido5334
      @alvarogarrido5334 2 роки тому +8

      @@FabschOblivion669 Totally

    • @alvarogarrido5334
      @alvarogarrido5334 2 роки тому +33

      He shouldn't have gotten a second chance.

    • @ryan2415
      @ryan2415 2 роки тому +6

      @Ironman yeah but Leffen saying there should be an airtime limit isn't a bad thing. It creates discussion, and videos like this. Even if it was a terrible time to bring it up, there is still discussion to be had about an airtime limit.

  • @evadekiryu5060
    @evadekiryu5060 2 роки тому +580

    Imagining having a airtime limit on a character that is supposed to be in the air 😄

    • @nezarredondo6101
      @nezarredondo6101 2 роки тому +75

      Like"Nooooo! How dare you to play a character the way it was meant to?!"

    • @harrylane4
      @harrylane4 2 роки тому +70

      I think street fighter should have a limit to the number of times you punch

    • @jjamjam2999
      @jjamjam2999 2 роки тому

      He lose that’s it

    • @majintora
      @majintora 2 роки тому +39

      @@harrylane4 Imagine giving zoners a zoning limit lmfao... If you've zoned a enemy for longer than 1/4 of the round, you have to let them get in lmfao

    • @xxzel4732
      @xxzel4732 2 роки тому +7

      @@majintora yeah just like that but if you do 1 too many projectiles the enemy just wins by default.

  • @isaacnikolic5895
    @isaacnikolic5895 2 роки тому +175

    The ending was correct. What he wants is for Jiggly Puff to simply not exist as a viable character. There's no other reason for him to ask for an air time limit.
    Especially when he knows he's perfectly capable of beating H box.

  • @imret9781
    @imret9781 2 роки тому +597

    In the mind of leffen it probably makes sense thinking : "hbox's torturing me with how he plays, then i'll torture him outside of the game" in Leffen's dreamworld, hbox would have so many rules and condition to his play that he'd have to switch to a less "boring" character, quit the game or play puff as a low tier.

    • @salmon_wine
      @salmon_wine 2 роки тому +54

      Leff is a master of catastrophizing. He sees things like Gambit's walljump bug in MVC2 and immediately comes to the conclusion that that's what Hbox is doing by not playing "hold stick to side" style.

    • @imret9781
      @imret9781 2 роки тому +40

      @@salmon_wine I think a lot of people can feel like that, but most of us don't have the platform to be validated in our salt, that's probably the difference there, when I played melee I didn't like playing against defensive players and thoughts like "they're bad, they shouldnt play like that" came in some moments. Leffen doesn't have any reason to grow up because of his stan base that will give him validation when he's bitching, if leffen didn't have the platform and influence to say stuff like "i'll quit if if doesn't change" he would suck it up like a big boy and either adapt or leave. That's what popularity does tbh

    • @TopOfAllWorlds
      @TopOfAllWorlds 2 роки тому +8

      That sounds like leffen

    • @xxzel4732
      @xxzel4732 2 роки тому +4

      Let's not forget Leffen was on the bandwagon to get Jiggly banned. At this point Hbox knows he is annoyed by it, so I think he does it to Leffen more than he does it to some. Leffen definitely takes things more seriously outside of the game than a lot of top tier players.

    • @mycenaeangal9312
      @mycenaeangal9312 2 роки тому

      @@xxzel4732 leffen is a little bitch and there's no excuse for this.

  • @diodora2381
    @diodora2381 2 роки тому +298

    Literally, every complaint and nerf for puff boils down to Hbox. Puff is the most defensive character in the entire game. We have LGL, Pound Stalling, and now people want an airtime limit just because of Hbox. What about Fox McCloud, the most oppressive character in the entire game. Nah. At what point does this step into the realm of fuck puff? I've seen a lot of top players advocate for really aggressive nerfs on puff, and specifically puff. Would this still happen if Hbox wasn't one of the greatest players of all time and the only puff to crack the top 30? Probably not.
    My real problem with this debate is where is the line. Where does this become too targeted. LGL was supposed to be what finally nerfed puff. But this debate just keeps going. Everyone switches to fox to beat Hbox. It's a 60:40 matchup and yet Hbox still can win. At what point do people stop complaining and start playing? That's my question. LGL nerfs Marth, Sheik, Yoshi, and Pika as well. Airtime limit nerfs Peach and Samus too. This feels like a weird chase to pin down puff.

    • @myboy_
      @myboy_ 2 роки тому +72

      Fox can also camp nearly the whole cast just as well as puff

    • @smun2931
      @smun2931 2 роки тому +103

      I propose an attack limit for fox he can only do 30 individual attack if he does more the player loose the game

    • @imret9781
      @imret9781 2 роки тому +15

      It all comes down to people hating to play against h-box puff and them trying to rationalize and change rules to fit their own pleasure. It's totally logical when you see hbox's playstyle, he's deliberately trying to frustrate, annoy, manipulate his opponent to win and in a competition you'd do everything to win. The hate comes from the fact that most people in this community aren't just trying to win, they're trying to win a certain way,using fun characters, the determination to just "win" is something not as present in melee as in other comp games or sports.
      That's why people hate hbox because he's the most competitive, determined player to win at any cost, he doesn't care about being flashy, looking good. We could even assume that his success in melee is directly a consequence of this common mentality, it could even explain why he's struggling to be on top in Ultimate because there's a lot more people like him that just want to win there, Hbox could have just found his nichein Melee there if people keep having this fun/flashy mentality. (personnally I like people trying to do sick stuff, I enjoy mid tier heroes etc)
      Until Leffen is really determined to beat hbox at his own game, nothing will change probably. Also if you laser camp puff until 50-60 you get your own rest, jap upsmash, uthrow upair, etc.. and if you even further like 150 you could kill with bair etc at any spot, If we look at the facts there's a clear, effective way to beat hbox(s puff that has been proven to work in many sets, Leffen isn't doing it right now.

    • @Uforik64yt
      @Uforik64yt 2 роки тому +48

      Spot on. I'd love it if Hbox came out as the 'loud' one after matches. Get on mic and say that fox laser is simply too strong. It needs a nerf. What about fox upsmash killing at 50? Very silly! Only 5 up smashes total in a game or the fox auto loses? Why not? Fox is clearly the best character, and more and more players are switching to him. It's time to nerf him for sure.

    • @ner9469
      @ner9469 2 роки тому +26

      @@smun2931 I propose a popoff limit
      A person can only popoff 3 times in a tournament in top 64
      This directly nerfs Hbox
      Everyone is happy (except Hbox)
      Leffen is happy because he isn't losing a winning MU anymore
      Everyone else is happy because Leffen is finally shutting up (hopefully at least)

  • @TheSleepKing
    @TheSleepKing 2 роки тому +408

    Yeah, Leffen is always salty.
    Really well-edited video, keep it up!

    • @343Films
      @343Films 2 роки тому +1

      I'd say it's beyond "salty." Leffen is a whiny brat who talks endless whit whenever he's winning and then mopes and cries the second he isn't.

    • @TheSleepKing
      @TheSleepKing 2 роки тому

      @@343Films Yep. Been goin' on for years.

  • @ethanharmon1228
    @ethanharmon1228 2 роки тому +52

    I just really feel upset by the way leffen handles losses. I have seen him act well-meaning before when he loses, but it's like if he doesn't respect his opponent or if he thinks he should have won, he acts like they are their play style are the problem.
    it's really toxic, and hbox's response was incredibly mature and well said

    • @eragon78
      @eragon78 2 роки тому +1

      The dude actively hates HBox. This isnt a secret, he's literally demonized him for a decade now.
      Leffen is one of the most toxic people in the community. He shit talks everyone and then gaslights people when they try to call him out on it.

    • @343Films
      @343Films 2 роки тому +8

      Yep, it's incredibly toxic. And the fact that the community just entertains it and allows it to keep happening is truly disgusting. Takes away so much from celebrating the actual victor of the set/tournament when 90% of the content afterwards boils down to "iS lEfFeN rIgHt??1!?" Kinda embarrassing tbh

    • @mycenaeangal9312
      @mycenaeangal9312 2 роки тому +2

      @@343Films embarrassing is right.

  • @ZaneKyber
    @ZaneKyber 2 роки тому +215

    Anyone who watched this game specifically, and isn't new to watching melee, could tell he definitely did not camp him out. There have been times in the past where he did, but this match he clearly didn't. His point might be valid overall for other matches but in this one, he didn't abuse air time or ledge grabs.

    • @victordiaz7353
      @victordiaz7353 2 роки тому +48

      Imagine using the s tier character, perfect for any strat, defense, offense, whatever and complain your opponent used a defensive strat with burst of offense because his A/possible B tier character losses in brainless approaches

    • @supahotwasabi
      @supahotwasabi 2 роки тому +12

      @@victordiaz7353 definitely not B lmfao but yea for sure

    • @Silverado-pq6xe
      @Silverado-pq6xe 2 роки тому +16

      @@supahotwasabi to be fair there’s not many jigglypuffs that are contenders to win supermajors, I think puff is just super perfect for hbox

    • @leaffinite2001
      @leaffinite2001 2 роки тому +7

      @@Silverado-pq6xe shes not lower than a tier though

    • @victordiaz7353
      @victordiaz7353 2 роки тому

      @@supahotwasabi what defines a tier?
      From my point of view:
      1rst= S tier (fox)
      2nd-5th= A tier (marth / falco/ shiek / ( possible c. Falcon / puff / peach / pikachu))
      6th to 9th or whatever = B tier ( (possible puff / c. Falcon / peach/ pikachu) / yoshi / possible gannon)
      So on, so on
      My reasoning goes by the idea of which characters have a higher chance of "carrying u " ( im aware that at the top 25 melee the skill is so high tier list are call to question its significance however we have seen fox yields higher chances of results, then marth falco and so on so on
      Modification because i forgot peach existed
      Mod because *Y E L L O W R A T*

  • @ln8496
    @ln8496 2 роки тому +37

    Playing conservatively with a lead is one of the most basic competitive concepts that has existed since like the Dawn of civilization.
    Jigglypuff cannot grab you for an infinite amount of time. She can’t permanently freeze opponents. She cannot press down b and vanish as long as you mash an input.
    Ledge camping is a universal mechanic where few characters can take advantage of to avoid interaction with the majority of other characters.
    Limiting a moment option because leffen couldnt beat it playing like 2013 M2K… now THATS what i call refusing to interact.

  • @geeber5
    @geeber5 2 роки тому +59

    We need a leffen in the smash community limit

    • @SparkShadow212
      @SparkShadow212 2 роки тому

      That would imply that there is more than one Leffen in this world, which is a horrifying thought.

    • @mycenaeangal9312
      @mycenaeangal9312 2 роки тому +5

      how about leffen fgc limit.

  • @GarnitrexGaming
    @GarnitrexGaming 2 роки тому +197

    Neat video. Appreciate tangible numbers on this and consideration for characters other than puff too.
    It baffles me that anyone even considers Leffen’s opinions as not just salt anymore. It’s been over 10 years he’s pointed to everything else as a problem to his losses. I’m no where near the level of play Leffen is, but damn such a bad sport and lack of competitors mind.

    • @Silverado-pq6xe
      @Silverado-pq6xe 2 роки тому +8

      I know he was so clearly salty here and during the set and people are seriously considering what he says lol

    • @freddiekruger3339
      @freddiekruger3339 2 роки тому +6

      Yea, the consistently top 10 player in the world despite not living in America and constantly playing and becoming high level in other games doesn't have a competitor's mind lmao. He's a salty complainer after losing (which almost everyone is, just not to the same extent) but that doesn't mean he gives up afterwards like most salty scrubs do. But yea he's definitely salty and I think most ppl don't pay too much attention to his rants anymore

    • @ln8496
      @ln8496 2 роки тому +22

      @@freddiekruger3339 getting good at games fast in his position isnt as impressive as literally anyone else in the world doing the same. He has Resources and time, seeing as how he’s literally just payed to go on ableist rants at this point by a major esports organization

    • @leaffinite2001
      @leaffinite2001 2 роки тому +2

      @@freddiekruger3339 sometimes ppl are just naturally really skilled at something and that actually encourages them not to get a good mindset since they are good already. Someone who worked their way up from the bottom or has gone through rough patches with no excuses understand that sometimes you just do bad. Idk if leffen is capable of that without insane johns

    • @eragon78
      @eragon78 2 роки тому +16

      @@freddiekruger3339 Leffen is so toxic that every other game community he's in has pretty much abandoned him. Nobody likes the dude in other game communities.
      I honestly dont know why the smash community still puts up with the dude. He's just insanely toxic and he isnt healthy for the community. Im honestly shocked he isnt perma banned yet with some of the shit he's pulled in the past.

  • @olympian543
    @olympian543 2 роки тому +41

    I think if we’re going to put a limit on how long puff can stay in the air, we need a limit on how many times fox can move in the same direction as puff, just to make sure we aren’t putting rules on characters unfairly here.

    • @gyroninjamodder
      @gyroninjamodder 2 роки тому

      Rules should be about making the game more fun as opposed to making the game more fair.

    • @olympian543
      @olympian543 2 роки тому +13

      @@gyroninjamodder I don’t think that should always be the case due to the fact that we all find different things fun. I enjoy watching Steve in ultimate but a lot if people don’t. Punishing players for playing the way they want to play in the name of “fun” is an extremely bad idea. You need to let multiple people play different ways or it becomes “everyone needs plays like this” or players leave.

    • @gyroninjamodder
      @gyroninjamodder 2 роки тому

      @@olympian543 Players typically only play is those ways to exploit an unfair mechanic. If people who make the game less fun for others leave, then so be it. Everyone else can continue to have a better time without them.

    • @olympian543
      @olympian543 2 роки тому +14

      @@gyroninjamodder but there is no unfair mechanic being exploited. Jigglypuff is playing with the moves and physics she was programmed to have. She’s not doing the sing ledge infinite, she’s not glitching you through the ground, hell I could argue wave dashing is exploiting the games mechanics more than jigglypuff does. There is nothing jigglypuffs are doing that could be considered a glitch or exploitation. She’s just playing the game more passively which is a perfectly fair strategy.

    • @harrylane4
      @harrylane4 2 роки тому +10

      @@gyroninjamodder there’s no mechanic being exploited. Patience and waiting for an opening is literally puff’s game plan.
      Calling for an airtime limit is as silly as calling for a ban for puff.

  • @Aflay1
    @Aflay1 2 роки тому +152

    It's worth noting that Leffen did indeed succeed in goading Hungrybox into approaching him.
    By taunting of course.
    We all know what happens when you taunt Hungrybox.
    Hold that L, Leffen.

    • @vyor8837
      @vyor8837 2 роки тому

      Down Air Rest?

    • @axletman3394
      @axletman3394 2 роки тому

      @@vyor8837 not true in melee :(

    • @vyor8837
      @vyor8837 2 роки тому +1

      @@axletman3394 It isn't true in *any* game.
      It's still hype as shit when you pull it off.

    • @axletman3394
      @axletman3394 2 роки тому +5

      @@vyor8837 isn't it (mostly) true in ultimate?

    • @vyor8837
      @vyor8837 2 роки тому

      @@axletman3394 nope!

  • @Phosypha
    @Phosypha 2 роки тому +6

    Also Leffen:
    Runs to the other side of the stage and spams laser

  • @dLzzzgaming
    @dLzzzgaming 2 роки тому +31

    Shoutouts to the God who made a script just for this.
    Great video btw

  • @ClassicBentobox
    @ClassicBentobox 2 роки тому +13

    No matter what character you play there’s a character you hate.
    I’m sure Hbox has been pretty sad how early uthrow uair kills. But that didn’t stop him and he didn’t complain about the rules when he lost.

  • @ThomasMichaelMusic
    @ThomasMichaelMusic 2 роки тому +8

    An air-time limit would only be bad for the game IMO. At top level someone like Leffen would absolutely just camp the floaties, because you KNOW there's an airtime limit, so the more YOU camp THEM, 1) the more they have to approach (which is inherently difficult for floaties in certain matchups so its a direct nerf to the archetype), 2) the closer they get to reaching the limit and potentially just losing by disqualification. If Puff was as dominant in melee as Meta Knight in brawl then maybe it would be a good thing overall, but when you just have 1 player that even kinda plays campy and abuses airtime (and I use abuse VERY lightly) it would cause way more harm than good.

  • @dudebfg0123
    @dudebfg0123 2 роки тому +21

    I think an airtime limit is too subjective. You are no longer allowed to jump once the limit is reached? There should also be some kinda visual to know how much airtime you have left. Leffen (and the other retired Swedish player) use the "shot clock" argument every time they lose to Puff but you can at least see the shot clock in real time.
    Also, the other issue is that if the airtime is, say 4 minutes, then players will work around that and work around 3:30 minutes of air time and so on. It's too easy to come close to this rule without breaking it. Ledge grab limit is at least objectively measurable but a character existing in the air to create openings is just part of floaties kit. I think Leffen should just get better.

    • @salmon_wine
      @salmon_wine 2 роки тому +2

      gonna copy my sentence from another reply:
      I think Leffen is just sick of melee and wants to play other fighting games tbh. The problem is that all the notoriety he has is within Melee, so his pride/ego make him stay, while at the same time he is not happy about the fact that there is still so much melee to be played.

    • @leaffinite2001
      @leaffinite2001 2 роки тому +6

      @@salmon_wine i mean he says stupid stuff when hes playing other fighting games too, i think hes just a victim of his own natural talent. Hes too good to let himself be at fault in his mind

    • @ThatSneakman
      @ThatSneakman 2 роки тому +2

      @@leaffinite2001 Complaining about his own character when he plays Strive Zato is an example. Clown to the end.

    • @dudebfg0123
      @dudebfg0123 2 роки тому +4

      @@salmon_wine Bye Leffen, enjoy the games you like.

    • @thespacewestern030
      @thespacewestern030 2 роки тому +2

      @@salmon_wine I hear he's been banned in other FGC crowds, so that might be stopping him too.

  • @NaJk93
    @NaJk93 2 роки тому +6

    Hbox got the personal match up to such a good degree that leff can't help but to cry at this point lol.

  • @myboy_
    @myboy_ 2 роки тому +8

    idk how someone can see how iBDW plays the matchup and still thinks puff camping is a problem
    like yeah camping is a problem for peach or ICs, but you play FOX you can literally out camp puff

  • @xanderburton6431
    @xanderburton6431 Рік тому +1

    i read "airtime limit" and "leffen" and thought people wanted to limit the amount of time he has on camera or something lmao

  • @breezeless_7665
    @breezeless_7665 2 роки тому +8

    pretty funny to see how a fox main, the best character in the game and has a plus match up against puff, wants more rules against puff when there is already plenty of rules nerfing puff.
    it's not like hbox is the only consistent puff player that is in the top 30, no no, this is to help the spectators because it is boring to watch and totally not because I suck at the match up. Hbox succeeded to adapt with the rules that was put against him, so i don't see why he didn't deserve the win at all

  • @KingBooshka
    @KingBooshka 2 роки тому +31

    There's a difference between adults who decide to play a children's game, and manchildren who refuse to grow up.

  • @LiamSCL
    @LiamSCL 2 роки тому +12

    "I need a ruleset change because I lost one set against hungrybox in 2 years" go back to Twitter leffen

  • @TheGuardingDark_
    @TheGuardingDark_ Рік тому +1

    The fact that he insists on handicapping his competition rather then working to improve himself. Proves that he wouldn’t deserve to reach the top even if he had the chops to do so.
    “If it weren’t for all the things that made me lose, I would have won!”

  • @tykykable
    @tykykable 2 роки тому +7

    With the Hax$ limit in place he can start working on the Hbox limit lol
    Jokes aside, there's no way he would have been so salty losing to anyone else in a four minute game. The fact he thinks he can take the mic and posture like that after that set, and that it'll read well to Melee fans, is incredible to me. It basically just looks like targeted, spiteful Johning.

  • @BPrismo
    @BPrismo 2 роки тому +12

    Sick bud glad to see more melee content! Keep it up push the content meta far!

  • @Krantz_
    @Krantz_ 2 роки тому

    You BUSTED that 1k goal! Gratz!

  • @jepptheclairvoyantdwarf9498
    @jepptheclairvoyantdwarf9498 2 роки тому +9

    Holy shit I loved the stalling lore bit

  • @lunarumbreon7699
    @lunarumbreon7699 2 роки тому +8

    All this would would do is completely kill puff as a character. Her entire useful move set relies on her being in the air (rest off of up throw, back air)

    • @lunarumbreon7699
      @lunarumbreon7699 2 роки тому

      Yes I am aware he goes over this scenario in the video

  • @4given-jc
    @4given-jc 2 роки тому +6

    Genuinely a really well made video. Glad I found you

  • @Kikker861
    @Kikker861 2 роки тому +1

    Having an air rule would invariably lead to unsatisfying victories by camping to the line or legitimate victories taken away because of being just over that arbitrary line. In either case, it's silly that Leffen would propose rules that inhibit Melee's freedom of movement.

  • @militarygradepotato
    @militarygradepotato 2 роки тому +10

    great video! in conclusion Leffen was blinded by the salt

  • @loganreidy7055
    @loganreidy7055 2 роки тому +9

    "Can we change the rules" the guy who ran away and shot lasers when hbox approached him

  • @HPRshredder
    @HPRshredder 2 роки тому

    Congrats on this pushing you to almost 2k!

  • @madman1460
    @madman1460 2 роки тому +66

    Leffen just can't accept the fact that he has a Mental block vs puff and can't counter it

    • @TakumiJoyconBoyz
      @TakumiJoyconBoyz 2 роки тому +3

      Exactly. Plenty of of other players have already gotten over it.

    • @UpgradeBob
      @UpgradeBob 2 роки тому +8

      hasn't he had a winning streak on hbox till that match?

    • @eragon78
      @eragon78 2 роки тому +28

      @@UpgradeBob he has. Its like 7-2 his favor over the last few years or something iirc.
      This is literally just him being omega salty because he feels like he deserves to win and throws a fit like a child when he doesnt.

    • @harrylane4
      @harrylane4 2 роки тому +9

      @@eragon78 he’s got a long history of this lmao. He literally quit tekken because too many people were better than him

    • @343Films
      @343Films 2 роки тому

      @@harrylane4 I remember when that happened. Frankly, the dude's a little bitch

  • @DIVAD291
    @DIVAD291 2 роки тому

    This video is basically the equivalent of looking at someone being held at gunpoint and confidently declaring that the gun doesn't matter unless they get shot.

  • @jstar3382
    @jstar3382 2 роки тому +1

    basically he's just malding lmao
    Edit: he just doesn't like fighting puff even tho there's literally one of them and wants to remove Juan from comps altogether

  • @ditodevice1950
    @ditodevice1950 2 роки тому +1

    Airtime limit on a character that is supposed to be a ballon. Lmao

  • @Fiveward
    @Fiveward 2 роки тому +8

    air time limit of 9 minutes seems fine 👍
    Leffen got outplayed.

  • @Jonathan-tv4cc
    @Jonathan-tv4cc 2 роки тому

    That is the most beautiful thumbnail I've ever laid my eyes upon thank you

  • @Gazoney
    @Gazoney 2 роки тому +5

    I'm not much of a player myself, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I imagine that the point at 5:43 about an airtime limit changing the way Leffen plays would cause the reverse - ground stalling (yes, I realize it sounds stupid).
    Because the way I'm seeing it, Jigglypuff's ground movement seems to be bad enough to where it's going to be in the air naturally even if playing in a more "approaching" manner. So I feel that Leffen could effectively just employ the "run away and laser" strategy to the point where I see a couple different scenarios happening:
    - Hungrybox is forced to run up his own airtime just trying to approach in a non-reckless manner, causing him to potentially lose on the airtime limit for "stalling"
    - Hungrybox spends more time on the ground to avoid running up his own airtime, making him much easier to rack up damage on through lasers and his approaches become more vulnerable as a whole.
    Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the game, but I don't recall any other bans that prevent a character from just playing like the character (aside from Peach bomber stalling, I guess) and we've already got Pound Stalling banned. It's not like he's employing bugs/glitches or infinites to operate in this manner, he's just playing the character with its intended kit.
    It seems like you'd be better off just banning the character for being "too good", but even that just seems like a poorer solution than just playing better. Obviously it's easier saying all this from the sideline, but I only seem to see 2 players ever harping on these things to this point (being Leffen and iBDW). Everyone else seems like they just deal with it.

    • @ClassicBentobox
      @ClassicBentobox 2 роки тому +4

      As someone who has played in comp for like almost 9 years, you’re spot on.
      People (sadly including me at one time) love to complain about puff because it’s a much slower paced game than other matchups if both players are playing right.
      At the end of the day though, the only thing you can do is get good.

    • @NatePhan
      @NatePhan 2 роки тому

      "It seems like you'd be better off just banning the character for being "too good", but even that just seems like a poorer solution than just playing better."
      It's not even the case of Puff being "too good" though, if that was the case we'd see so much more Puff players in the top ranking/winning tournaments. It's just Leffen being salty.

    • @Gazoney
      @Gazoney 2 роки тому

      @@NatePhan Oh I agree 100%, I'm just saying that I think the only logical decision here is either:
      - Ban puff for being "too good"
      - Don't ban puff because it's not "too good"
      Of which between the two, I think the latter is the correct decision.
      Partially banning pieces of a character's normal kit just doesn't make much sense to me

  • @MrJohnthegamerHD
    @MrJohnthegamerHD 2 роки тому +2

    I think Leffen has bigger things to worry about than getting that airtime limit implemented LMAO

  • @contadetestes9009
    @contadetestes9009 2 роки тому +2

    Leffen is trying to become the low tier god of smash. If he didn't win is because the other guy is cheating and he feels validated to rage quit and complain

  • @OOM8783
    @OOM8783 2 роки тому +4

    I've heard a lot about air time limit only counting if the game goes to time-out. Would not have helped Leffen anyway but I think it's worth mentioning since I see this rule proposed a lot.

    • @mycenaeangal9312
      @mycenaeangal9312 2 роки тому

      that's at least not impossible for the floaty character player to play around. Still stupid, but not blatantly bullshit.

  • @chalybee8689
    @chalybee8689 2 роки тому +1

    Air time limit is the dumbest rule I've heard for smash yet.

  • @Twitchmaster69
    @Twitchmaster69 2 роки тому

    imagine hungry box saying fox needs a shine or lazer limit after losing.

  • @blep3505
    @blep3505 2 роки тому +5

    Morcou editing always on point

  • @evilded2
    @evilded2 2 роки тому +3

    Here is the real answer lower that timer. In every other fighting game timeouts are hype. Not to mention that sets in smash take way to long. Lowering the timer even a little would help TOs keep events running on schedule.

  • @daphunkyzzindahouse
    @daphunkyzzindahouse 2 роки тому

    The classic Leffen john "I'll do anything I can to destroy Hbox' capacity to compete"

  • @anthonygillette
    @anthonygillette Рік тому

    0:49 it’s funny because the reason jiggly puff is viable is because of her air physics. Airtime limits are specifically to attack characters like Peach and Puff, and only benefit grounded games. This would be like limiting wave dashing

  • @jakus.
    @jakus. 2 роки тому +1

    i can tell that you're gonna be big soon

  • @ThePAPAFletcher
    @ThePAPAFletcher 2 роки тому +1

    Dark triad behavior

  • @bbqseitan7106
    @bbqseitan7106 2 роки тому +3

    Leffen would ban HBox if he could

  • @Purey97
    @Purey97 2 роки тому

    Great video, thanks for discussing it!

  • @Y4LDA
    @Y4LDA 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you for attempting to improve the community ruleset. How is a mid tier character like fox supposed to beat jigglypuff without these new additions?

  • @LordFartamor
    @LordFartamor 2 роки тому

    Congrats on 1k

  • @NintendoKnight1
    @NintendoKnight1 2 роки тому

    Alright, let's give Puff an airtime limit. Puff only gets a maximum amount of time to be in the air for the whole match.
    In return, Fox only gets 10 lasers and 5 shines for the whole match. Fair and balanced, my dudes. Fair and balanced.

  • @shiranuithewolf8559
    @shiranuithewolf8559 2 роки тому +1

    It gives me life to see leffen taking L’s then complaining like a baby

  • @chavastral9245
    @chavastral9245 2 роки тому

    Damn, you already hit 1k subs, congrats man

  • @gsus3918
    @gsus3918 2 роки тому

    Leffen can't kill hungrybox like the others can, so he cries.

  • @NecroGarfunk
    @NecroGarfunk 2 роки тому

    we all know water freezes when it's cold, but it's still cool to learn more about it. likewise, while we all know leffen is a salty overgrown child who's throwing a hissy fit, your breakdown is still appreciated.

  • @Killopotamus
    @Killopotamus 2 роки тому +1

    What a bizarre world where Peach/Samus gets backaired offstage into a bad position, while taking damage, and also is losing by another condition (into a rinse-repeat edgeguard looool)

  • @jaredwhite7285
    @jaredwhite7285 2 роки тому +1

    Remember when hbox lost and asked for a fox up air limit?
    Oh wait he didnt do that because its stupid to make rules with the purpose of gimping a single character.

  • @xboxgamer474246
    @xboxgamer474246 2 роки тому

    Initial reaction to the thumbnail:
    No, nothing would have saved Leffen. Hbox was completely in his head.
    After the video: Huh Samus has long recoveries.
    Anyways, no, Hbox was in Leffen's head.

  • @NotaSkeleton
    @NotaSkeleton 2 роки тому +1

    What's frustrating about watching that set was that Hbox wasn't really camping. He was keeping away a bit, but really not to any significant degree. Especially the last game was weird.
    Leffen was technically the one doing the stalling, since he was down in stocks, but to be fair, he doesn't really have to approach either, since Fox's projectile can close the % gap if you're patient enough.
    But, for some reason Hbox started going in and almost immediately loses his two stock lead. I don't know if this was throwing to try and prove a point(''See what happens when I don't stay away?''), or to get into Leffen's head by basically saying he's so far ahead that he doesn't need to use his strongest strategy.
    Either way, I'm against an airtime limit. I'm open to have my opinion changed, but for now I just see it as a way to hurt all floaties and limiting it to just Puff also doesn't sit right with me.
    I actually wish people would commit to *camping harder* to test the limits of the current ruleset and help with developing stronger counterplay.
    But, few people actually seem willing to do that, so I really don't think a rule change is necessary.

  • @awarspine6600
    @awarspine6600 2 роки тому +1

    this is a good video, keep up the quality work

  • @brycemason8464
    @brycemason8464 2 роки тому

    Basically what leffen is trying to say is “ban jiggs”

  • @Swagtildawn
    @Swagtildawn 2 роки тому

    If we have an air time limit then let's have a laser limit.

  • @wyattthewordweaver1992
    @wyattthewordweaver1992 2 роки тому +2

    Very interesting. HBox played very agro in that tourney in general.
    I’m skeptical of an air time limit in general bc it always seems so laser tolerated at the box but I can understand why some want it. Theoretically it would be good for the game. The problem is Melee lacks a ruling body to make such decisions and thus we’re just down to individuals throwing out opinions.

  • @IsaacG97
    @IsaacG97 2 роки тому +1

    Leffen has never admitted that someone played better than him. There’s always a reason why he didn’t win that wasn’t his own skill at the game . Doesn’t just apply to Melee 😂

  • @QuantemDeconstructor
    @QuantemDeconstructor 2 роки тому

    Leffen practically wants Melee to only have spacies at this point, man has proposed multiple rules now just to nerf floaties

  • @AwkwardTurtle311
    @AwkwardTurtle311 2 роки тому +2

    Air time limit has to be the biggest John and stupid excuse for a rule

  • @mallowtonmouse
    @mallowtonmouse 2 роки тому

    Not me laughing hysterically at just the title

  • @jonathanbol3969
    @jonathanbol3969 2 роки тому

    "Air Time Limit" is the poor man's John.

  • @Tommy2_0
    @Tommy2_0 2 роки тому

    Great vid man

  • @sjnths
    @sjnths 2 роки тому +2

    IIRC, wins awarded due to an opponents use of ledge grab stall require the game to end from running out of time -
    stalling relies on nipping a victory from timing your opponent out, so any argument for an air time stalling on a game ending just over 4 minutes isn't stalling to begin with.
    Hbox won lol.

  • @aplsed
    @aplsed 2 роки тому

    Huh. Never thought I'd see the day Leffen and Hax see eye-to-eye on something

  • @Earthenmind
    @Earthenmind 2 роки тому +2

    Leffen is a big whiney baby and that's about it. The fact he ranted on and delayed grand finals to whine about the ruleset not having an airtime limit, when it wouldn't have even saved him in the first place just goes to show you how childish he is.
    Any Puff limitations, or ruleset changes players suggest are 100% just targeted towards Hbox. They just say "Puff this, puff that" to pretend they're not malding from getting rested in a supermajor. Pretty pathetic.

  • @lukepen9839
    @lukepen9839 2 роки тому

    "does he just want Hbox to hold forward against a character like Fox and just lose?"
    Yes that's exactly what he wants.

  • @belliandrea4049
    @belliandrea4049 2 роки тому

    The melee community is amazing, we have:
    a tsundere bearded god who chugs beer really fast
    a powerful god so hated that he got a crab thrown at him
    a salty villain who was supposed to mature ages ago
    an anime protagonist with glasses who destroyed the villan 6-0 while flexing he can do it with 3 different characters
    a chill egyptian king
    a really cool guy who proved everyone to not sleep on his red dinosaur friend
    and many more

    • @Calamity5
      @Calamity5 11 місяців тому

      aMSa will forever have my admiration. What a legend.

  • @AnonYmous-ob7py
    @AnonYmous-ob7py 2 роки тому

    Since I can’t win, I believe that the rules should be specifically changed to benefit me.
    Rule 1:
    Only people named Anon Ymous can win
    Rule 2:
    Only
    People not named Anon Ymous automatically lose

  • @joshsilliman5446
    @joshsilliman5446 2 роки тому +1

    Great vid! Earned a sub!

  • @bawbehh
    @bawbehh 2 роки тому

    This video shows exactly what ludwig was talking about to leffen against air time limits.
    Because it needs to be consistent to the entire cast. You can't just punish floaties for being floaties and playing their optimal way because it's not exactly the way fox plays. You need to have rules that allow players and character to play the way that works for them.
    I'm glad you brought up samus, no one is complaining about samus stalling and breaking air time limits for playing the way samus plays. And punishing stall tech because it's in the air, yet not punishing fox for laser camping on the ground is entirely one sided. Leffen is just salty

  • @pinaheart_
    @pinaheart_ 2 роки тому

    "Air time limit" yeah let's also make a "shine limit" let's see if leffen likes that one

  • @oscilao
    @oscilao 2 роки тому

    leffen just wants an hbox limit of 0 hboxes per tournament

  • @flyingbutterrr
    @flyingbutterrr 6 місяців тому +1

    As much as he wants to keep people out of the air and on the ground, he definitely isnt down to earth

  • @ifsnowdrop
    @ifsnowdrop 2 роки тому

    I only leffen asking for an air time limit as an extension of him unironically trying to convince the community that a character with only 2 good moves is stronger than fox.

  • @Wallee07
    @Wallee07 2 роки тому

    Actual banger vid.

  • @trueblueryu5713
    @trueblueryu5713 2 роки тому

    An air time limit for Brawl MK made sense because MK didn’t need to worry about tripping, had absurd frame data, and could hover under most of the stages back and forth, theoretically infinitely. Melee Puff gains significant buffs while in the air, but can still be KO’d early by well-timed hits, and has actual losing matchups other than just infinite combos. Sure, a limit to prevent games from lasting the full 8 minutes would be nice in theory, but it’ll only come up like 1% of the time, max…. Outside of random Slippi matches, of course

  • @SynysterEskimo
    @SynysterEskimo 2 роки тому

    Queue mean girls quote “The limit does not exist!”

  • @Light_Repairman
    @Light_Repairman 2 роки тому

    Did they really have to change the look… again… youtube please. Great video btw 🎃

  • @vincienco
    @vincienco 2 роки тому

    Lmao thumbnail has me dying

  • @ineedyoutostop
    @ineedyoutostop 2 роки тому +1

    "Does leffen just want hbox to hold forward and lose?" Yes. Yes he does. Leffen and a lot of other smash players in history don't like how hbox plays, and don't like that they can't consistently beat him. They don't have issues with puff they have issues with someone like hbox using puff to beat them.
    I have TONS of respect for players like m2k and armada, they're some of my favorite players of all time, but they have similar problems with hbox and have said pretty much the same things leffen says about hbox and puff.
    They just don't want to lose to hbox.