Why Didn’t Gandalf and Aragorn Tell Frodo Anything About Bilbo?
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- It seems a natural enough topic of conversation, yet for some reason Gandalf and Aragorn never mention to Frodo that Bilbo is in Rivendell, despite that being Frodo’s destination. I have a feeling it’s because both of them would love a good surprise party.
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Gandalf and Aragon knew about the fate of Gollum, being a former ring bearer and tortured by the enemy. They both knew that the enemy would try to get Bilbo for the same reason he got Gollum. For the sake of Bilbo's own safety the fewer people knew about his whereabout the better.
...... And Sam and Pippin and Merry don't tell Frodo as well. Neither do Gloin or any of the elves that Frodo meets in the first day at Rivendell. I always accepted this, since in LOTR no one gives out any information unless they have a reason to do so and certainly people like Aragorn or Gandalf do not like to throw information around. EDIT and in fact Gloin comments on how much Frodo misses Bolbo. I think they are all conspiring to give Frodo the most pleasant possible surprise he could get when he meets Bilbo
I've never thought about it before...
But after seeing this video, another idea comes to my mind: it may be just a courtesy towards Bilbo - to not reveal his address without his explicit consent, even to the dearest ones. And I can even imagine Bilbo himself begging them to not disclosure him to Frodo, because "Frodo still loves Shire and is not ready for such journey yet" - and knowing where is Bilbo could prompt him to go too rashly.
Another idea is that Bilbo was in danger when the enemy was looking for "Baggins" - but this was already mentioned in the comments.
In supporting what you said, I've always interpreted the smile that Gloin gives Frodo after he mentioned he misses him, is the smile of Gloin knowing Bilbo is here, and they'll meet soon.
And the way Elrond introduces him to Bilbo after the party. There is a hint there...
Also, Aragorn doesn't tell anything about himself to Frodo. Just tells some stories. He is kinda awkward in that way.
It's Bilbo's story to tell if he wishes. Gandalf and the dwarves respect his space.
I agree about a conspiracy of silence AFTER Frodo arrives in Rivendell, but both Gandalf and Aragorn are subject for being gone for months and years at a time before returning, which means they may not be fully acquainted with Bilbo's movements and travels. Bilbo later tells of his travels, returning to Dale and the Lonely Mountain in particular. It is possible that neither knew that Bilbo had given up traveling and chose not to mention the possibility of his presence in the misfortune of his absence. This seems to me most likely.
because Gollum was tracking Bilbo and he told Sauron about him and as such they never talked about his location outside of Rivendell itself?
I think some of what you said, but I think in Aragorn's case maybe he assumed Frodo already knew, maybe thinking Gandalf would have told him. Also, Aragon probably had a lot on his mind, like trying to get everyone alive to Rivendell and the last thing he was worried about was this.
That was my first thought about Aragorn's case as well.
Other hobbits might not really know / be sure about Bilbo being there, but for Gandalf it could have been a thing to have Frodo make a choice to go (or at least to see if he will go) withou adding personal reasons, but purely to help
Well we know from when Frodo talks with Bilbo, that Sam and Bilbo sat together for a couple of days next to Frodo's bed. Sam is most definitely conspiring to keep the information about Bilbo away from Frodo.
I'm fascinated that you're discussing this right as I'm re-reading this part of Fellowship. I think the theory mentioned here regarding the fact that Bilbo might still move about is a good one. Even if he's made Rivendell his home, that wouldn't keep him from leaving for a trip. No point promising a reunion that might not work out.
However, something I had just been wondering about from the same section is why Aragorn does not discuss his lineage. He tells the hobbits the story of Beren and Luthien, and how their descendants includes Earendil, Elrond, and the Kings of Numenor, and does not follow that up with "and I myself am even able to count myself one of their descendants, though countless generations lie between me and them" (sorry, I'm no Tolkien). Movie Aragorn might not say that because he does not feel worthy of the honor, but book Aragorn has no such qualms, and we already know he's the crownless waiting to be king again, so it's already been alluded to. I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on that.
I wonder if maybe the a pleasant surprise was meant to lighten Frodo's heart so much after such a long, and as of yet most difficult and painful journey he's been on in order to maybe counteract the dark emotions the ring might naturally want to way on the mind of it's bearer, especially after being stabbed and being afraid for his life half the time about some mysterious menace out there, not that Gandalf or Aragorn knew he would be stabbed, but still.
I never thought about this and I have no good explanation, at least none better than Bilbo's presence at Rivendell was intended to be a surprise. You would have thought Gandalf would have mentioned this to Frodo when the two were making the plans for Frodo to leave the Shire.
I think it's definitely meant to be a surprise, but it's also possible that they didn't actually know he was there at the times they were interacting with Frodo on the way to Rivendel. IIRC, they both hadn't been there for some time, and Bilbo had been talking for years about going to visit Erebor again. He was also very elderly. They probably didn't want to get Frodo's hopes up until they were certain of the reunion.
What about the scene where Bilbo asks to see the Ring again? Gandalf is wise enough to guess that something like this will happen. He won't want to pre-load Frodo with thoughts of Bilbo, so to speak, as the Ring has a way of twisting emotions. If Frodo gets hung up on seeing Bilbo again, he will start fantasising how he explains he had kept good care of the Ring, then how he had made better use of it, or something. Like when he fantasises about using the Ring to escape from the barrow, and how Gandalf would agree there was nothing else he could do. In short the re-union has to be under highly controlled circumstances, and even then it barely comes off.
Melon Geek, I agree. Tolkien was keen to surprise his readers. This he transferred to Gandalf and Aragorn for Frodo's arrival in Rivendell. I also think the enemy was looking for Bilbo, and this would give them another reason to keep the old hobbit's location a secret. Great work, as always. Namarie.
I haven’t read the books in a long time, but is it said that Bilbo stayed in Rivendell for 20 years? I always assumed that he went to the Lonely Mountain, and then to Thranduilms realm, then to Dale and come back to Rivendell. In other words, he was always moving around, which is why Aragorn may have not know that Bilbo would be in Rivendell at that moment.
Simple. Gandalf and Aragorn knew Sauron had one key bit of information: looking for a hobbit named Baggins. Depending on how things played out, they were keeping Bilbo in reserve as bait. For example, what if they made it to Rivendell but the Nazgul weren't destroyed and were lurking around in the woods? When the real Fellowship set out on their journey, they knew they might have to sacrifice Bilbo by sending him off in the opposite direction with some other, minor characters (probably Merry and Pippin and Butterbur). They know the Nazgul are smart and so the bait has to be good -- what could be better than a hobbit named Baggins? They would tell Bilbo "Hey, we need you to do one last VIP adventure for us. We need you to travel back the Shire to pick up the ring from Frodo" and of course his ring lust would make him eager to comply. By the time the Nazgul have slaughtered Bilbo's bait party, the Fellowship is long gone. Gandalf knows Frodo will be uncomfortable with this and so he tells Aragorn "Don't mention Bilbo until we know whether or not we have to implement Operation Baggins Bait. If we do, we'll just keep them separate and ignorant in Rivendell." It's a small sacrifice to save Middle Earth.
You're perhaps over-thinking this one. It seems more like Tolkien wanted a nice surprise for Frodo and the readers of the book, but as he was writing the story simply over-looked the fact that Gandalf and Aragorn would have known Bilbo lived in Rivendell and would naturally have said something about this to Frodo at some point. Maybe if Tolkien had been asked about this oddity in the story he would have come up with a similar explanation - but in the end, this would just be explaining away an oversight that was made during the composition of the narrative.
no, Bilbo was being tracked by both Gollum and Sauron, and both Gandalf and Aragorn knew this to be the case as they spoke to gollum - so not disclosing Bilbo's location to gossipy hobbits was natural
Didn't Gildor also know? He told Frodo he bid farewell to Bilbo 'on this very spot' but I saw him again, far from here.' After reading the book, I assumed he had seen him in Rivendell.
OR - just a theory here but MAYBE - they don’t mention Bilbo because Tolkien wanted to surprise the reader? It’s been so long ago that I first read LOTR, I don’t recall whether I was wondering about Bilbo at that point.
I think Bilbo maybe didn't intend to permanently stay in Rivendell but was basically forced to due to his rapid aging without the ring. Perhaps Gandalf and Aragorn weren't aware that he was no longer able to travel.
In the Book he says he tried to go help Frodo when he got delayed but Elrond and Gandalf wouldn't let him because he's wanted by Sauron. So Gandalf at least must know he's parked in Rivendale. My theory more than anything is that Bilbo's whereabouts are top secret so they decided it wasn't safe to say anywhere outside of Rivendale
Do we actually know conclusively that either Gandalf or Aragorn were in Rivendell in the 17 year window between the Party and Frodo’s departure? I’ve checked the appendices and don’t see anything definitive; that of course doesn’t mean they didn’t. The most likely possible visit is by Aragorn after the death of Gilraen in 3007, but again it’s not definitive. Bilbo also journeyed to Dale again early in that period, so it’s possible that Aragorn or Gandalf were in Rivendell and Bilbo was not. Interesting video regardless!