Aptera has been such a beacon of light in regards to their transparency. They’ve shined a light on the automotive industry as a whole, which I find remarkably commendable. That being said, I respect their ongoing decision to keep the public out of their business at the early stages of certain commitments. The public may have good intentions, though are often quite misinformed (myself included) about all the intricacies of engineering, investing, marketing, and automotive production in general. Our input is valuable, though not at all stages and phases.
I really couldn’t agree more. Having created things out of ether. Some things cannot be shared because others, whether intentional or well-intended, will do stuff to quash it. It is quite a tightrope between guiding the information and leaving a vacuum where people just make things up.
I think that I would have been adding a similar comment, with an exception... For those who have put significant investments in, then they should be more aware of the struggles that Steve & Chris go through to get this gem on the roads... Hopefully Sandy Munro's input has smoothed the path through 'production hell' as ... someone put it. Maybe a set of different information levels depending on the level of investment, and the confidence / expertise of the investor? Sandy Munro for example would be investor that would be great to have involved in those challenges, whereas I would probably only add confusion as my experience in those fields is ... ... limited... An approach that I guess Aptera is currently following?
I think the transparncy they have is the right amount. They don't tell us everything they're trying to do and what's in the works but when it's something that concrete and moving forward they tell us. I think if you didn't hear anything then you'd really think the company was vaporware. With what we've been given, I a a much more patient and understanding investor. If I had the money I would fully back it to get the Aptera to production. From the EVA videos I feel they're very close. They really need the capital to get more machines to produce the solar panels, because you need to make those at a greater number to meet the supply for the production schedule.
the amount of transparency theyve displayed for years has earned my trust; ergo if they want to play a few cards close to their vest im ok with it. im convinced they have their own best interests in mind which happen to coincide with mine since i want them to succeed. go chris!
I think it helps prevent negativity and direct comparisons to elaphe and Aptera 1.0. Those doing research will see these views but scams don't provide tooling updates, tours, etc. Aptera may fail but it will never be from lack of trying.
"On this ride with them." Exactly, Steve. My wife and I visited Aptera on Valentine's Day. We got to ride in and drive Gamma. Audra showed us the whole facility and answered every question we asked. (Well, she didn't let us see the user interface...) Yes. Aptera shows off the good stuff, but they need to do a lot of work to get to that stuff up there. That's why we are hearing so little right now about the PI builds that are being made at CPC. It's not that they are not making progress, but they want to solve any issues before they make them public. (And you certainly don't want to give the trolls more actual fodder, they regurgitate enough cud already.) Audra seemed confident of an April reveal of LE production intent build, which means the arrival of those CPC assemblages must be pretty imminent. So I'd say that Aptera offers more transparency than ANY other start-up, which is less than we'd like but probably more than we deserve. Inga and I are Accelerators, but we were greeted and treated like peers. (We even had a Steve Fambro drive by...although I think he may have been following Audra and me during my drive) We left even more confident that we'll be driving ours home for the holidays this year. Plus, they need to keep you in content....
Highest roof crush strength of any automobile, large crumple zones, carbon fiber safety cell construction, undergoing crash-testing but computer modeled out to exceed auto safety standards. Check them out before jumping to conclusions .@tr-labs8320
I like the monthly pace of the official updates as well as sneak previews as possible. We shouldn’t have public access to information that isn’t ’locked-in’ yet. What I really appreciate is that they respond quickly when ‘real’ issues are brought up within the community. While I would love more frequent updates, I only want info to be released when it’s prudent to do so.
In every work of creativity, there is iteration and editing. Usually we only see the finished product, a movie, a book or any other product. I don’t care to see the bits of marble Michelangelo chiseled off to make David or the edits made to the author’s manuscript that made it a bestseller. Aptera is sharing the journey with us by showing the progress as milestones are achieved, orchestrated from a marketing perspective to generate continuing support. I say, “Bravo, Aptera!”
This actually for the first time made me think of my professional relationships to my project bosses. Usually it's an art not only to work hard, but to effectively communicate successes and be honest
Steve, great topic! As someone who works on new products or upgrades to existing products, it is never a good idea to share with the public something that is not 110% locked in and a done deal. The public and investors do not need to see or hear about issues unless it can be capitalized on to show an improvement in your product. I truly expect there to be a lag in information sharing. Aptera is incredibly transparent and this works to their favor as it encourages crowd funding / investment. With that said, sure I would like to see more information as to the progress towards production. The more positive information the better. Aptera is very cautious about what is released and what they say or don't say. If you notice, they are talking about potentially delivering some vehicles to customers in 2024 with their low volume run. They still need a great deal of money to be able to ramp up to 40 vehicles a day. I suspect their goal is to get 100 production vehicles to customers by the end of 2024. 100 vehicles will really start to show investors that the Aptera is actually happening and that the biggest limitation to production is the capital that is needed. 100 vehicles also will show banks that they are more than theory and that they have an actual product but 100 vehicles by the end of the year might be a significant challenge. We are currently approaching March 2024 and we need to remember that there is about a 2 month delay in shipping vehicles / parts directly to CA from Europe. (There are a couple big reasons why there is this long delay and we might find that they ship to the east coast of the US and then transport the parts by rail to CA. Shipping to Savannah or Houston from Europe is relatively quick but will still take about 4 weeks.) Except for the naysayers, we are all very hopeful to see our Aptera in our driveway sooner than later but producing a production vehicle is really hard. They needed $50M to really start production. That didn't happen so we shouldn't expect the start to be very fast at all. Remember, they needed more than $100M to ramp up to 40 vehicles per day and that was last year. The other thing that is oddly quiet is news about Elaphe. The motors are a joint development between Aptera and Elaphe but when the two companies inked a deal, Elaphe did not have the ability to build 100,000 units per year. Ideally the motors would be made in the USA but that was not the original agreement. Without in-wheel motors, the Aptera won't go anywhere. It would be interesting to see where things are at with the motor manufacturing as that is a key component that can delay things.
Looking forward to the PI in-wheel hub motors, body panels, and alumnium chassis being fully assembled and on permanent display for the world to see! I respect how they update the great progress. Glad the original partners are making their and my solar vehicle dream come true! 👍🌞⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
You would be unwise to announce the future when it's still 'half-baked'. You announce the 'future' once it's already a fait accompli. I for one am very very impressed with not only the company's transparency but also their technological engineering and their drive for both continuous improvement and efficiency of their available capital. i'm a very cautious and savvy investor and while acknowledging the risks of this investment at this time, I sleep very well at night and am excited not only to get my Aptera LE but also experience the growth of my investment.
No company shares all its thoughts and trial and errors continuously. That’s what goes on behind the scenes in design and engineering teams. For every final decisions there are dozens or hundreds of considerations that change. I’m fine with seeing this information at the latter stages of the process instead of trying to keep up with a lot of speculative information.
No news is good news. I have invested in Aptera because I trust Chris and Steve and the technologies that are being harvested in this project. I just want to be part of it.
They in their eagerness to share have built a bridge to confidence in their ability to deliver. We are a part of the evolution of the project as we are surveyed as to our expectations.
Given how consistent the small group of complainers are in asserting their demand that Aptera “just build it already” every time Aptera issues a new video, it’s probably wise to stick to the concrete, positive progress videos they are presently issuing. That allows the vast majority of us Aptera advocates to stay on message, en masse. IMHO
Wow! You've been reading my mind and hearing my frustrations because I want my Aptera yesterday. After listening to you on this video I realized my impatience is imprudent. I'm just going to have to wait.
I'm pretty happy with the amount of openness we've received. The willingness to modify a decision. Like the no 50 Amp charging that took about 36 hours to turn around. Hmmmm; How many sign-ups did I lose with that? What I really like is Steve's approach to reporting and their cooperation with Aptera Owner's Club.
I this age of social media and easy communications the average person thinks they need to know the day to day operations and decisions of a company...I noticed this during the tour of Aptera...people asking questions that maybe would make sense if you were going to invest millions of dollars...we don't need to know everything immediately.
Much of their hold back on information can also be attributed to competition. We are investing in the premise of efficiency and longevity of the APTERA. A new future towards transportation. The balance between information given and information held back has worked thus far. The proof here is in the ridiculous record setting amount that APTERA has accumulated from individual investments.
They do it right regarding briefing of the public. Just mention what they have achieved, without delay. Of course they cannot disclose what is being discussed, no-one can, suppliers must be protected. Its not because they have problems and cannot scare off investors (investors are much more clever than that), that is just your hypothesis. They are not as good about harvesting design ideas though, if they put the whole design up for public discussion then there would be a better car. Even I, a layman, see small problems and ways to improve, mostly the interior, but also outside.
Your analysis is cogent and clear, Steve. Aptera has struck a balance that is acceptable to everyone. The co-CEOs have done successful start-ups before and they make a good team. M&A and others have given them sage advice and suggested suppliers. The OpenPilot guy is especially impressive. Having failed before, Aptera's been extra, extra careful.
The pace of updates in my opinion is much frequent than what other companies offer about their future products. Engineering development is a bumpy road that with the purpose of ensuring a design is well validated and thought of before a product goes to market. Even knowing this, Aptera is extremely open, sharing details only when they feel they are ready to be shared. Exposing themselves further, and offering half-baked ideas for the sake of the appearance of progress, and appease anxious expectations will only add fuel to the negative impression, especially if things end up not materializing as shared. In fact, even now with their measured approach to openness, negativity and hate still flies left and right. In my opinion, if development data is not shared, is because they are doing what they need to do with it, and not ready to share results. Every thing I’ve seen so far leads me to believe they are making good decisions while keeping us engaged and excited. My eagerness and desire to have my vehicle now comes secondary to their sound engineering approach. Just continue to be patient. After all, progress is still progress. I will worry if stagnation becomes evident.
I invested in Aptera the same way I invested in Tesla, I invested in a company that I believe in and if I'm going to lose all my money I would rather it be on something I really believe in. Fortunately with Tesla I recovered all the money I lost in other stocks and made some. Hopefully with Aptera is going to be the same in that I will get my car and make money at the same time.
Unfortunately, you’re right about how we, as investors and fans, wouldn’t really want to hear about the trouble spots very long before a resolution is in the works. In business and as a prime contractor, we tried to work things out or at least develop a game plan to correct issues when we brought them to our customers or our internal engineers. They are doing this right
I'm happy with them sharing after they have worked through a problem or solidified a plan. Having regular updates though keeps things interesting to us outsiders. If things were going badly, as they did at Sono, I would prefer to know ASAP. But I understand that, as you mentioned, they don't owe us anything beyond their SEC filings as long as they don't lie. I would also hate to see the sharing of struggles that are not a big deal in the scheme of things tank investor confidence and unnecessarily jeopardize the company.
From the beginning about two decades ago I recognized Chris and Steve to be exceptional innovators in personal ground transport. How did I know? I saw their idea expressed by the think tank at RMI, Rocky Mountain Institute, with drawings/blueprints/engineering. I paid $240 just to read/examine and think about it. Why? I have been following the development of EVs since the early '80s when I joined the Sacrament EV club. The beginning EVs were pathetic, but at least a start. I believed in the concept that would replace the ICEV because of the problems with the internal combustion engine vehicle (ICEV), e.g., air pollution being #1. Since childhood I have been sickened by diesel fumes. I'm like the canary in the mine. I appreciate Aptera's transparency, honesty, and rejection of "businesses usual". I have put a deposit on 3, since 2020 canceling my order for a Tesla.
honestly i would like to know what they are thinking and what issues they have to resolve, but i am perfectly fine with hearing this news after the issues have been resolved and after the decision has been finalized. i can perfectly understand not wanting to release this information before it has been resolved, because it could negatively impact potential investors, while current investors would probably want to know how their money was spent, and what issues were resolved working with their money.
It would be nice to have a behind the scene view after the company has been established , so it wouldn't stop investors from positively looking at them.
I think there are very few that would have the stomach for the day to day decisions of so many people solving so many problems. This is why a good CEO or two is so important. Chris talks about failing quickly but he seldom takes time to explain the failures. I appreciate the monthly updates and expect to hear about some great news soon. I am not sure that I would call it transparency as much as an encouraging informative update to hold your interest and support. This is essential for a crowd funded company. I am glad that I didn’t know about CPC before I did because the time from first negotiations to the first part produced was likely more than a year. CPC should make it possible to get a better vehicle for a similar or better price. I think that it was a great move, just not sure how I would have handled the news that it was going to be at least another year IF it worked. At this point I think things are looking good. The delayed launch, I trust means I will get a better vehicle and have opportunity to increase my investment / stake in the company.
They answer questions well, they show enough to satisfy me if I was an investor. Only once was I disappointed by the answer. In that case they made a video 2 days later that answered everything.
I would really LIKE them to tell us all the little details as they work on them. I would eat those details up. But, I think they have hit a fairly reasonable compromise between telling us too much and telling us too little.
If they spent all their time telling us about all the trials and tribulations, they wouldn't get anything done. As a small investor I would like them to focus on getting this product to production first. Yes, I would like to know about any milestones with an occasional hurdle just as a FYI. The big 3 never involve the public on their decisions. Aptera already informs us much more and I appreciate that 100%
Deals like those with CPC and CTNS take months to negotiate, and, if they were to publicly announce them prior to final signing, that would jeopardize the whole deal and possibly be illegal. My suspicion on the wind tunnel testing was that they had a short window to roll the Aptera in and blow some smoke and air over it. As someone who has run wind tunnels, it takes weeks to set up the instrumentation for a proper wind tunnel test, so I doubt they got any serious quantitative data out of that test, which is fine for now. Even if you're a significant investor and on the board of a public company, you don't get to watch the sausage getting made! I'm grateful for the transparency in general. I wish they would talk more about what they are doing about the CFO position. That worries me since their biggest challenge now if finances.
I've been to wind tunnels and it takes time before you rent one out and make sure you got all of your experiments ready. After that in about 4 hours at the wind tunnel, you are set for the next 4. As you know, blowing smoke over a car is just to make it look interesting to people that have never been to one. They could care less about the raw data.
I think we need the transparency right now. This helps us get the word out about Aptera. The transparency you are talking about should be for investors only and will come after the IPO. Although maybe only yearly.
I’ve known about Aptera only on the periphery for the past couple years without looking too closely into the company. However, just in the past couple days I’ve done a deep dive into the company and the Gamma prototype and I am completely smitten with the company and vision. Placed a reservation yesterday and looking forward to following their journey to production. Their transparency is a huge benefit and it helps all parties remain accountable.
Transparency as is is good, just keeping us updated and as things are going along is fine. Once a month is a frequency and don't feel like we are in the dark.
Hi, Today, driving around Washington DC, it was a nice sunny day. Not a lot of man covers or other obstacles in the center of the lane. (practicing 3rd wheel driving) I was fantasizing driving these hills in an Aptera. This made me wonder about the status of "production". My thinking went along these lines; The owners of Aptera started as boat builders. That's the trade I'm in. And very familiar with. Boats [100'+ yachts] are by way of production always treated as a 'one-of'. Multi million dollar project, whereby in the end a complete and stand alone, what I like to call, floating factory is produced. A lot of unknowns (owner changes mostly) pop up. Sometimes this results in having to do [expensive] things over. In boat building, or re-fit, there is a rule of thumb. Well, it's actually two of the same. Namely: - It takes twice as long and three times the money. or -It takes three times as long and double the money. Long story short; I too wonder how Aptera is turning out. Because let's be honest about the upstart of Aptera. Hardly anything I can comprehend. I mean, Covid came and went. And then I saw from Aptera was huge pieces of metal being moved around to be machined. Holy guacamoley, who did budget that one in? How long did that take? 5 axel cnc foam cutting, sure, but a metal die with cooling?! in that size?! That's different. Long story short; yes, I would also like to know if this whole 'getting Aptera to production' enterprise was, like, 10 times longer and the decimal moved one or two space over to the right. Cheers & thanks, Steve!
Those dies were very expensive. Chris said they weighed tons. The beauty is that they should last for a long time and every part they make will be identical. They are steel.
Thanks as always…Some of you may recall quite some time ago, (I am guessing 2022?), that there was the prospect of an “angel” investor for Aptera of around $21 million or so. Aptera released info about this and said that the investment was based on certain criteria that needed to be met. I believe that there was also some executive privileges that would occur for the investor if this actually happened. The time framework has passed but there has never been an update that I am aware of. I believe it was around the same time that their CFO resigned. Other than this, I think that they have been very strategic in their communications.
I think your take is right and they have made the right decision on disclosures. They don't make excuses and admit to issues when it is obvious. Somehow they manage to keep things under wraps; like the flip up front fairings! I always looked at the Gamma as the original PI of the Kevlar design. But the number of orders pushed past what was reasonable for production. Even you questioned the ability to make even 20 bodies per day with hand layup using Kevlar. Originally they were thinking 3-4 thousand a year, soon they had 8,000 orders. SMC and CPC provided a solution to major production. In the December 2022 update Vecchi states they had been working with them for about 18 months. So June of 2021 or about when the Rich Rebuilds video came out where orders hit 20K. Obviously not willing to talk about it just then. Nor should they. Nothing was set in stone. At the Gamma event your question about the hatch latch and other hatch questions basically got 'we fixed all that and you will see that in the next design'. I think everyone's jaw dropped when we learned about CPC. It was a great move adding their skills that added the aluminum frame/crash bar, upgraded the suspension and door design on top of make the body. I have no doubt it will drive and handle wonderfully. Recently we are seeing a tubular metal piece in the CG of the BinC coming together. Chris M told a recent reviewer that it is a roll bar made of steel. I think you should clarify that. Tubing type [chrome moly?], is it chrome plated, is it roll bar or hard points for the doors that also lock the carbon pieces together [or both]? I tend to think the big mass of carbon on top is the roll bar. As the tubular piece fits into a gap in the carbon arch but it does go over the front of the roof creating a halo. It could be a newer steel alloy? But a cro-mo frame to support the doors makes sense and chrome plating can add surface hardness to the metal making it more durable and more rust resistant.
I hope Aptera can avoid the mistakes of what Fisker is going through currently. From Fisker Ocean horror stories (Fisker subReddit), to a delisting notice now given by the NYSE. I hope for the very best for Aptera, but I’d be cautiously optimistic for them.
One factor is that anything involving supplier relationships / contracts can fall through at the last moment (& that's pretty common). So for example, if CPC had got cold feet at the last minute, then they'd still need to progress the original design.
I get it if investors are curious, but as a UK reservation holder, my ride will be a few years yet. As a note, announcing something before confirmed can result in a serious amount of egg on face, especially for grants or core construction methods. All businesses should have reserve plans if something doesn't pan out. When tackling regulatory issues, the options are to either comply or to lobby for outdated ones to be changed. Only one of those choices is in direct control of the company, so to wang on about the other every month until the monolith moves would be very off-putting. Aptera is doing it right so far. For my own one, I hope to see rapid updates on EU/UK homologation once the Accelerator Programme fulfilment is significantly underway. So that's another year or so for confirmation of EU facilities (at CPC?), how the issues in the L7 class regulations are being tackled, how the RHD versions will be scheduled into production, and so on.
Steve. Thanks for the video. I think they are sharing the right information in the right amount. I trusted them with the information I had around the moment. There’s always risk involved in investing in a startup company.
the amount of transparency they give is perfect You cant tell everyone every route your planning and have people interfering or profiting/exploiting off of it. Also it looks bad if they try a lot of things and fail/don't finish perception wise and will be on endless conference calls explaining themselves the public or investors. You shouldn't have to explain your many failures to the world to get to your one success
I look at the company as having a delayed transparency. Information usually lags about 1 to 3 months or more except in extreme cases, like for example: When the community had a massive negative reaction when they originally announced that the launch edition would not have DC fast charging. They promptly changed course rapidly due to the backlash.
As an ongoing development, it is not in their best interest, (Or ours.) to tell us of every idea they are working on before it comes to fruition. Some ideas don't pan out for good reason, unworkable, too expensive, too heavy, etc. ad infinitum. Not telling us about every hair-brained idea that comes up in a free-wheeling idea session gives them the ability to think outside the box and means they don't have to be married to every idea that comes along. You bring up a case in point about the hand-built honeycomb body structure. Turns out that the CPC company had already invented the wheel and Steve and Chris both jumped on it as a better way, (Faster, more consistent, lighter, and hopefully stronger, as actual crash testing will soon tell.) to build their body.
One thing to consider with a company that is innovating as much as they are... Delayed transparency helps to protect their IP. You can bet that someone is already in the process of copying them. By keeping things close to their vest until after decisions are made and contracts are inked, NDAs are likely already in place. While an NDA won't fully protect them, it'll slow the copy cats a bit. The copies will happen. Let's make sure these guys at least get off the ground first!
They are Working Sixteen Beats to the Measure! News Updates gotta be fitted in for the Most part, and Big News still has to Be Work Permitting. They are doing a great job IMNSHO. They notify Us when all the Burrs are combed out. I am Happy with the Timeliness of Their Info.
I am curious where our battery level coolant warning and fill will be😊 I'm sure the battery and any future upgrades will be more than perfect timing honestly 😊
@@1978rayking There will be no lead acid battery fill. they will use an LI battery for the 12 volt system. The window washer fluid fill is by the left door jam.
@n.brucenelson5920 I was thinking about the coolant and where will the sensors for the coolant be, like level and temp or maybe its a sight glass or something?
@@1978rayking Oh, OK. I don't know locations. I do know that there are separate antifreeze loops - one for the battery that runs at lower peak temps, and one for the wheel motors and inverters that can run at higher temps. The batteries also have to be heated under some conditions. I have not seen further details.
@n.brucenelson5920 hmm ok makes sense because would need cooling as well sometimes, I think some electric cars can run the flow of their coolant for heating or cooling in either direction. The used multiple times, pressures, expanding, contracting lines, possible special belly or other radiator, type condenser or something as well. All will need access at some point down the road, the most failures for cooling and heating lines are the type with other connections like plastics and rubbers to metals to eachother, but the seals like the little o rings on the ends usually last longer. Aluminum last longer then hoses every time when it's all aluminum lines. I actually hated having to get to AC lines when they eventually leaked. Hopefully Aptera only has some panels or something or atleast bolts that can be tap and die if someone strips a body bolt not lining it up correctly 😉 all that stuff is common. People hate how gas never make things easier.
I think they've struck a healthy balance. Any less information and it would start to feel like they're hiding stuff from us, but if they gave away too much it would put a lot of pressure on the employees. When your direct decisions can get widespread public criticism very soon after you make them, all the time, that's a lot to handle. I would guess that most of the decisions that Aptera makes regarding releasing information is either tied to protecting employees or legal and financial obligations
A project as complex as the new Aptera necessarily proceeds step by step. Before each "final" decision step, options are considered and all but one discarded. Transparency in the options-consideration phase would be a distraction. In this phase, even the person in charge might not know the most likely outcome. Of course, part of decision making can involve customer surveys and feedback, but making that public brings with it drawbacks, as most options are discarded, even they customer favorites, due to cost, availability, reliability, or any number of factors we are not privy to. Investors and buyers are not a part of the design team, so we really have no need to know during the process. Occasional revelation of firm decisions makes sense and I think that's what Aptera is doing. I wish they were farther along on ALL firm decisions, but that probably won't happen until customer cars are rolling out the door. (Or even later ...)
Prefer Aptera acknowledging issues and saying they are working on it. Honesty and integrity. You too have been a beacon of light pertaining to Aptera. Thank you Steve 🎈
I prefer being updated after the problems have been resolved. Problems have a tendency to go in multiple directions until a resolution has been implemented.
I don’t need to know everything they are thinking and experimenting with. I’m happy being told about it when they decide to put it on the car. When they go public, there will probably be more delay and vagueness to communication. It makes me giggle that every three wheel vehicle learns about the center headlight way into the process. I think Aptera did the best job of incorporating the center light into the design. Electra Meccanica just stuck a light on the hood when they learned about it in 2016.
I agree it can be a double edge sword, but like the ride analogy you brought up, the transparency allows for the community to rally and be proactive, so this "ride" has room to accommodate new passengers with new ideas to further the cause and goal of Aptera. Tis a fine line for sure. Could be marketing/NDA causes as well, where there is a timeline to when they can officially announce something.
This is the first that I heard that they will do most of the cooling through ventilation rather than skin cooling. I assume they have cabin vent ports near the windshield wipers, will these be used to keep the batteries cool as well? If they have other vents, hopefully they pull the air in from the back of the car where it may even help to lower the coefficient of drag further, rather than a grill, which increases the drag. Mostly, I have noticed that as the vehicle gets closer to production, it becomes more attractive. I think they can do a better job of informing customers of the compromises that they will get with different configurations. A larger battery adds weight, making it less efficient. Also, as a work vehicle, one would want a few extra hundred pounds of capacity to haul things. 250 pounds of capacity is just enough for two adult males. I was intent on getting the 2wd version, but I discovered that they recommend the ruggedized, 3 wheel version for snowy climates. As of now, I am still confused about what parts will be carbon fiber, aluminum and fiberglass and I would not be surprised if that is subject to change. Personally, I like the idea of foam somewhere on the envelope of the body for reducing thermal conductivity of the cabin (summer and winter) and battery in the wintertime.
I like the level of transparency as it is. I've worked in startups in engineering and product development. There is a product development process that includes lots of gates and you don't decide on going forward until you've passed all the gates. For example, the plastic laminate was chosen, and worked, and they likely thought they might be able to improve it with glass, but until they could take it through several development gates and compared it with the plastic and found and negotiated a fair price amongst other things, they likely wouldn't pass the final (into production) gate. This is what accounts for the time between the idea and the implementation, and not until that point would they be sure, so why mention it? A lot of us (myself included) already second-guess their decisions. In my startups our product development teams and the decision makers were very small teams for a reason, otherwise you'd be hard pressed to make progress in a reasonable time, and there are steps along the way to get feedback from pretty much everybody in the company, vendors and customers in some cases. That's also why they do feature freezes which we've already seen. We did have input into the DC Fast Charging, but that was already a considered and engineered option, so relatively easy to change. The Aptera will also likely change after the Accelerator version based on user input. Thanks for what you do Steve.
Any company using crowdfunding is obligated to maximize transparency. That being said, I don't want the employees and managers at Aptera spending all their time putting together updates for us...I want them to get the damn car into production. I trust they're considering this and balancing accordingly.
I wouldn't want them to overshare about negotiations in progress. Seems like that would kill their leverage if suppliers knew whether Aptera was all-in on a vendor or whether the vendor's product was considered a commodity with several equivalent options. I love the updates that Aptera provides, but I don't necessarily need to know how the sausage is made.
Great video Steve. I agree with all of those who said that the current level of transparency is enough. Video ends at 14:44, why does it go till 21:41???
Some times I get the impression that they are slow in decision making. That's likely because I only get a fraction of the problems and the complexity, but it may seed some doubts. There are probably good justifyable reasons. I generally have confidence in the founders. They always make sensible arguments. Maybe they could accelerate engineering by crowd sourcing ideas, sourcing options and analysis ?? Maybe it would just create noise and be counter productive ??
Aptera has competition, too. For example, there's a Volvo with screen air vents coming out soon/now. Aptera revealed that ages ago but Volvo can get to market first.
I think they are doing well so far. If they did anymore I would question why they are spending so much money on developing, writing, filming, and creating content instead of just make the vehicle. They do enough to keep us informed and that is fine by me. Today they are probably working on whatever they were working on yesterday because that's how long term project work. I do not need an everyday check-in.
There's only so much time in the day for these very busy people. Information about every path along the way starts to explode at some point into wild goose chasing for no good reason. I think Aptera is pretty much doing it right as is. I have several of my own questions, like tow hook? Control arm torque vs fatigue? Emergency brake? Any possibility for roof rack mounts for a kayak? (I get the solar compromise from shading but that's not a showstopper). Enough..
Aptera is more transparent with the public than virtually every corporation that I have worked for are with their own employees. I would love more transparency from Aptera, but it will likely have a negative impact for all the reasons that you mentioned in this video. Satisfying my curiosity should not be a major corporate goal for Aptera.
As for the prerelease edition not being wind tunnel tested, we have not been informed of any testing. This does not mean that it hasn’t been tested. It is hard to prove a negative.
They sometimes hint at things. I have no problem with that. I understand why this happens. Sometimes you carry one thing until you get something better in place, there is no reason to bring in uncertainy that will just feed the naysayers. I missed the radiator, BTW.
What is being described is a weakness of any large multinational enterprise. They should tell you what you need to know as they do. Learned a lot. You just nailed it about the negative chatter. Dont give them anything they can use against you. The investors should not be stearing the company. Need to know? These people know what they are doing. And they believe in the vision and they know the technology is avalable to bring it into reality.
I'm an airline pilot, I can tell you that 100% open honesty to passengers only scares the crap out of those that have NO CLUE what they are hearing. Unless you are an expert in Government Regulation within the Auto industry And/Or a structure engineer and have your doctorate in human factor design....the things they are dealing with would be so far over your head- your reaction would be more of fear....fear of the unknown-when in actuality ALL is WELL
I think you answered your own question...do you trust that Aptera will make the right decisions, moving towards the stated design, business goals. I think their communication hits the right balance of sharing progress and decisions with investors/public and running a successful, start-up. We are not the ones charged with solving encountered problems and reviewing various options. Keep up the good work with the AOClub!
The answer is no. Of course they shouldn't tell us about their process before decisions and changes. There's nothing helpful in it for them, or for us, to share incomplete or unclear info, much less their roadblocks.
My take is that they don't have everything designed to final specs until they are done with that subsystem. Once they have a subsystem design, then they tell us about that if it's relevant for the public.
I don't think it's about transparency, I think it's about certainty. In engineering generally, but especially for manufacturing, it's hard to know exactly which option of out of many is best and you usually have to juggle simultaneously many options before you can choose the right one. If they told us every single possibility before one was chosen, it would be a firehose of information and not very useful. I've noticed that Chris Anthony tends to choose words carefully like this, he'll say what they are currently thinking, but not the absolute about it. We hear about things after they've been worked on for months, because that's how long it takes in business to resolve a thing.
(1) Our interaction with Aptera Motors is a lot like going to a pyramid sales conference - all positive exhortation, but without the lies. (2) No use telling us something has changed until the ink on the contracts are dry.
I like how they are releasing information now. What I look forward to is the book that tells the full background of the trials and tribulations the team faced - again, after the fact. We as future consumers don’t always need to see how the sausage is made.
Gotta agree with the vast majority of y'all who've chimed in: I am A-OK with their content delivery. These guys clearly do not stop in their quest to bring to market, in an exemplary manner, something that we all want to believe is going to change the world in a very positive, never-look-back sort of way. They are going to blow the doors off conventional energy and transportation models. I am quite bullish on this, and am not waning now 4 years into intently following them. They make very good decisions, and I like that.
Yes,, it would be a bad Idea to talk about potiential contracts until theye are finalized. While I wish I could be more sure of when I will get my Aptera, that will only be more sure when they get the big investor that they need to produce the high production equipment that they need for the solar pannels. What they have said khas given me confidence in them, so it is the only investment that I have made that could be concidered risky.
Aptera, Like all businesses, has company secrets. strategies, key thrusts, technical advances, current financial position, alliances etc. that are proprietary. If we as investors and/or depositors had signed NDA's then it would make sense that they share more, but their updates are immediately available to everyone so that is not the right way to do so. I just don't see how they could play it any other way.
Aptera has been such a beacon of light in regards to their transparency. They’ve shined a light on the automotive industry as a whole, which I find remarkably commendable. That being said, I respect their ongoing decision to keep the public out of their business at the early stages of certain commitments. The public may have good intentions, though are often quite misinformed (myself included) about all the intricacies of engineering, investing, marketing, and automotive production in general. Our input is valuable, though not at all stages and phases.
I really couldn’t agree more. Having created things out of ether. Some things cannot be shared because others, whether intentional or well-intended, will do stuff to quash it. It is quite a tightrope between guiding the information and leaving a vacuum where people just make things up.
@@scottgabbard662 Precisely, well said.
I think that I would have been adding a similar comment, with an exception... For those who have put significant investments in, then they should be more aware of the struggles that Steve & Chris go through to get this gem on the roads... Hopefully Sandy Munro's input has smoothed the path through 'production hell' as ... someone put it. Maybe a set of different information levels depending on the level of investment, and the confidence / expertise of the investor? Sandy Munro for example would be investor that would be great to have involved in those challenges, whereas I would probably only add confusion as my experience in those fields is ... ... limited... An approach that I guess Aptera is currently following?
I think the transparncy they have is the right amount. They don't tell us everything they're trying to do and what's in the works but when it's something that concrete and moving forward they tell us. I think if you didn't hear anything then you'd really think the company was vaporware. With what we've been given, I a a much more patient and understanding investor. If I had the money I would fully back it to get the Aptera to production. From the EVA videos I feel they're very close. They really need the capital to get more machines to produce the solar panels, because you need to make those at a greater number to meet the supply for the production schedule.
i really like monthly updates to know things are happening. enough silent startups died.
the amount of transparency theyve displayed for years has earned my trust; ergo if they want to play a few cards close to their vest im ok with it. im convinced they have their own best interests in mind which happen to coincide with mine since i want them to succeed. go chris!
No amount of transparency will affect change on the minds of the naysayers, but it's crucial for supporters.
I think it helps prevent negativity and direct comparisons to elaphe and Aptera 1.0. Those doing research will see these views but scams don't provide tooling updates, tours, etc. Aptera may fail but it will never be from lack of trying.
"On this ride with them." Exactly, Steve.
My wife and I visited Aptera on Valentine's Day. We got to ride in and drive Gamma. Audra showed us the whole facility and answered every question we asked. (Well, she didn't let us see the user interface...)
Yes. Aptera shows off the good stuff, but they need to do a lot of work to get to that stuff up there. That's why we are hearing so little right now about the PI builds that are being made at CPC. It's not that they are not making progress, but they want to solve any issues before they make them public. (And you certainly don't want to give the trolls more actual fodder, they regurgitate enough cud already.) Audra seemed confident of an April reveal of LE production intent build, which means the arrival of those CPC assemblages must be pretty imminent.
So I'd say that Aptera offers more transparency than ANY other start-up, which is less than we'd like but probably more than we deserve.
Inga and I are Accelerators, but we were greeted and treated like peers. (We even had a Steve Fambro drive by...although I think he may have been following Audra and me during my drive) We left even more confident that we'll be driving ours home for the holidays this year.
Plus, they need to keep you in content....
Highest roof crush strength of any automobile, large crumple zones, carbon fiber safety cell construction, undergoing crash-testing but computer modeled out to exceed auto safety standards. Check them out before jumping to conclusions .@tr-labs8320
@tr-labs8320Just a TINY bit of research into Aptera and you'll understand how wrong you are.
I like the monthly pace of the official updates as well as sneak previews as possible. We shouldn’t have public access to information that isn’t ’locked-in’ yet. What I really appreciate is that they respond quickly when ‘real’ issues are brought up within the community.
While I would love more frequent updates, I only want info to be released when it’s prudent to do so.
In every work of creativity, there is iteration and editing. Usually we only see the finished product, a movie, a book or any other product. I don’t care to see the bits of marble Michelangelo chiseled off to make David or the edits made to the author’s manuscript that made it a bestseller. Aptera is sharing the journey with us by showing the progress as milestones are achieved, orchestrated from a marketing perspective to generate continuing support. I say, “Bravo, Aptera!”
This actually for the first time made me think of my professional relationships to my project bosses. Usually it's an art not only to work hard, but to effectively communicate successes and be honest
Steve, great topic! As someone who works on new products or upgrades to existing products, it is never a good idea to share with the public something that is not 110% locked in and a done deal. The public and investors do not need to see or hear about issues unless it can be capitalized on to show an improvement in your product.
I truly expect there to be a lag in information sharing. Aptera is incredibly transparent and this works to their favor as it encourages crowd funding / investment. With that said, sure I would like to see more information as to the progress towards production. The more positive information the better.
Aptera is very cautious about what is released and what they say or don't say. If you notice, they are talking about potentially delivering some vehicles to customers in 2024 with their low volume run. They still need a great deal of money to be able to ramp up to 40 vehicles a day. I suspect their goal is to get 100 production vehicles to customers by the end of 2024. 100 vehicles will really start to show investors that the Aptera is actually happening and that the biggest limitation to production is the capital that is needed. 100 vehicles also will show banks that they are more than theory and that they have an actual product but 100 vehicles by the end of the year might be a significant challenge. We are currently approaching March 2024 and we need to remember that there is about a 2 month delay in shipping vehicles / parts directly to CA from Europe. (There are a couple big reasons why there is this long delay and we might find that they ship to the east coast of the US and then transport the parts by rail to CA. Shipping to Savannah or Houston from Europe is relatively quick but will still take about 4 weeks.) Except for the naysayers, we are all very hopeful to see our Aptera in our driveway sooner than later but producing a production vehicle is really hard. They needed $50M to really start production. That didn't happen so we shouldn't expect the start to be very fast at all. Remember, they needed more than $100M to ramp up to 40 vehicles per day and that was last year.
The other thing that is oddly quiet is news about Elaphe. The motors are a joint development between Aptera and Elaphe but when the two companies inked a deal, Elaphe did not have the ability to build 100,000 units per year. Ideally the motors would be made in the USA but that was not the original agreement. Without in-wheel motors, the Aptera won't go anywhere. It would be interesting to see where things are at with the motor manufacturing as that is a key component that can delay things.
As another R&D person, I agree completely with this stated position.
Looking forward to the PI in-wheel hub motors, body panels, and alumnium chassis being fully assembled and on permanent display for the world to see! I respect how they update the great progress. Glad the original partners are making their and my solar vehicle dream come true! 👍🌞⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
I think they are doing great. Good balance of truth with marketing.
I like the updates. It’s not my responsibility to second guess the process but enjoy the results!
You would be unwise to announce the future when it's still 'half-baked'. You announce the 'future' once it's already a fait accompli. I for one am very very impressed with not only the company's transparency but also their technological engineering and their drive for both continuous improvement and efficiency of their available capital. i'm a very cautious and savvy investor and while acknowledging the risks of this investment at this time, I sleep very well at night and am excited not only to get my Aptera LE but also experience the growth of my investment.
No company shares all its thoughts and trial and errors continuously. That’s what goes on behind the scenes in design and engineering teams. For every final decisions there are dozens or hundreds of considerations that change. I’m fine with seeing this information at the latter stages of the process instead of trying to keep up with a lot of speculative information.
No news is good news.
I have invested in Aptera because I trust
Chris and Steve and the technologies that are being harvested in this project.
I just want to be part of it.
They in their eagerness to share have built a bridge to confidence in their ability to deliver. We are a part of the evolution of the project as we are surveyed as to our expectations.
Knowing that they wanted to do the CPC body and having the contract and money is another thing
I am an Excelarator investor from the first month of the program and I am more than happy with the current level of transparency.
Given how consistent the small group of complainers are in asserting their demand that Aptera “just build it already” every time Aptera issues a new video, it’s probably wise to stick to the concrete, positive progress videos they are presently issuing. That allows the vast majority of us Aptera advocates to stay on message, en masse. IMHO
Wow! You've been reading my mind and hearing my frustrations because I want my Aptera yesterday. After listening to you on this video I realized my impatience is imprudent. I'm just going to have to wait.
Hi Steve, thanks for sharing! In my opinion, how Aptera is communicating their news is just right.
I'm pretty happy with the amount of openness we've received. The willingness to modify a decision. Like the no 50 Amp charging that took about 36 hours to turn around. Hmmmm; How many sign-ups did I lose with that?
What I really like is Steve's approach to reporting and their cooperation with Aptera Owner's Club.
I this age of social media and easy communications the average person thinks they need to know the day to day operations and decisions of a company...I noticed this during the tour of Aptera...people asking questions that maybe would make sense if you were going to invest millions of dollars...we don't need to know everything immediately.
To some of these people it is as if they were investing millions. They might be putting them selves out there to much.
Much of their hold back on information can also be attributed to competition. We are investing in the premise of efficiency and longevity of the APTERA. A new future towards transportation. The balance between information given and information held back has worked thus far. The proof here is in the ridiculous record setting amount that APTERA has accumulated from individual investments.
They do it right regarding briefing of the public. Just mention what they have achieved, without delay. Of course they cannot disclose what is being discussed, no-one can, suppliers must be protected. Its not because they have problems and cannot scare off investors (investors are much more clever than that), that is just your hypothesis. They are not as good about harvesting design ideas though, if they put the whole design up for public discussion then there would be a better car. Even I, a layman, see small problems and ways to improve, mostly the interior, but also outside.
Your analysis is cogent and clear, Steve. Aptera has struck a balance that is acceptable to everyone. The co-CEOs have done successful start-ups before and they make a good team. M&A and others have given them sage advice and suggested suppliers. The OpenPilot guy is especially impressive. Having failed before, Aptera's been extra, extra careful.
Aptera did well so far, they told us all so far, great solar panels. Batteries, charge controller. Body, Drive trains, now is ramping up....
The pace of updates in my opinion is much frequent than what other companies offer about their future products. Engineering development is a bumpy road that with the purpose of ensuring a design is well validated and thought of before a product goes to market. Even knowing this, Aptera is extremely open, sharing details only when they feel they are ready to be shared. Exposing themselves further, and offering half-baked ideas for the sake of the appearance of progress, and appease anxious expectations will only add fuel to the negative impression, especially if things end up not materializing as shared. In fact, even now with their measured approach to openness, negativity and hate still flies left and right.
In my opinion, if development data is not shared, is because they are doing what they need to do with it, and not ready to share results. Every thing I’ve seen so far leads me to believe they are making good decisions while keeping us engaged and excited. My eagerness and desire to have my vehicle now comes secondary to their sound engineering approach. Just continue to be patient. After all, progress is still progress. I will worry if stagnation becomes evident.
I invested in Aptera the same way I invested in Tesla, I invested in a company that I believe in and if I'm going to lose all my money I would rather it be on something I really believe in. Fortunately with Tesla I recovered all the money I lost in other stocks and made some. Hopefully with Aptera is going to be the same in that I will get my car and make money at the same time.
Unfortunately, you’re right about how we, as investors and fans, wouldn’t really want to hear about the trouble spots very long before a resolution is in the works. In business and as a prime contractor, we tried to work things out or at least develop a game plan to correct issues when we brought them to our customers or our internal engineers.
They are doing this right
I'm happy with them sharing after they have worked through a problem or solidified a plan. Having regular updates though keeps things interesting to us outsiders.
If things were going badly, as they did at Sono, I would prefer to know ASAP. But I understand that, as you mentioned, they don't owe us anything beyond their SEC filings as long as they don't lie. I would also hate to see the sharing of struggles that are not a big deal in the scheme of things tank investor confidence and unnecessarily jeopardize the company.
The next update I want to see is the PI bodies making it over here.
It leads to greater confidence. Also appreciate that they can adapt.
From the beginning about two decades ago I recognized Chris and Steve to be exceptional innovators in personal ground transport. How did I know? I saw their idea expressed by the think tank at RMI, Rocky Mountain Institute, with drawings/blueprints/engineering. I paid $240 just to read/examine and think about it. Why? I have been following the development of EVs since the early '80s when I joined the Sacrament EV club. The beginning EVs were pathetic, but at least a start. I believed in the concept that would replace the ICEV because of the problems with the internal combustion engine vehicle (ICEV), e.g., air pollution being #1. Since childhood I have been sickened by diesel fumes. I'm like the canary in the mine.
I appreciate Aptera's transparency, honesty, and rejection of "businesses usual". I have put a deposit on 3, since 2020 canceling my order for a Tesla.
honestly i would like to know what they are thinking and what issues they have to resolve, but i am perfectly fine with hearing this news after the issues have been resolved and after the decision has been finalized. i can perfectly understand not wanting to release this information before it has been resolved, because it could negatively impact potential investors, while current investors would probably want to know how their money was spent, and what issues were resolved working with their money.
It would be nice to have a behind the scene view after the company has been established , so it wouldn't stop investors from positively looking at them.
I'd love to help Aptera with their issues. It would be fun until it isn't.
Hopefully there is enough progress and "good news" to share on a monthly basis.
I think there are very few that would have the stomach for the day to day decisions of so many people solving so many problems. This is why a good CEO or two is so important. Chris talks about failing quickly but he seldom takes time to explain the failures. I appreciate the monthly updates and expect to hear about some great news soon. I am not sure that I would call it transparency as much as an encouraging informative update to hold your interest and support. This is essential for a crowd funded company. I am glad that I didn’t know about CPC before I did because the time from first negotiations to the first part produced was likely more than a year. CPC should make it possible to get a better vehicle for a similar or better price. I think that it was a great move, just not sure how I would have handled the news that it was going to be at least another year IF it worked. At this point I think things are looking good. The delayed launch, I trust means I will get a better vehicle and have opportunity to increase my investment / stake in the company.
They answer questions well, they show enough to satisfy me if I was an investor. Only once was I disappointed by the answer. In that case they made a video 2 days later that answered everything.
I would really LIKE them to tell us all the little details as they work on them. I would eat those details up. But, I think they have hit a fairly reasonable compromise between telling us too much and telling us too little.
If they spent all their time telling us about all the trials and tribulations, they wouldn't get anything done. As a small investor I would like them to focus on getting this product to production first. Yes, I would like to know about any milestones with an occasional hurdle just as a FYI. The big 3 never involve the public on their decisions. Aptera already informs us much more and I appreciate that 100%
Deals like those with CPC and CTNS take months to negotiate, and, if they were to publicly announce them prior to final signing, that would jeopardize the whole deal and possibly be illegal.
My suspicion on the wind tunnel testing was that they had a short window to roll the Aptera in and blow some smoke and air over it. As someone who has run wind tunnels, it takes weeks to set up the instrumentation for a proper wind tunnel test, so I doubt they got any serious quantitative data out of that test, which is fine for now.
Even if you're a significant investor and on the board of a public company, you don't get to watch the sausage getting made! I'm grateful for the transparency in general. I wish they would talk more about what they are doing about the CFO position. That worries me since their biggest challenge now if finances.
I've been to wind tunnels and it takes time before you rent one out and make sure you got all of your experiments ready. After that in about 4 hours at the wind tunnel, you are set for the next 4. As you know, blowing smoke over a car is just to make it look interesting to people that have never been to one. They could care less about the raw data.
I think we need the transparency right now. This helps us get the word out about Aptera. The transparency you are talking about should be for investors only and will come after the IPO. Although maybe only yearly.
No, those of us who have placed reservations should not be kept in the dark just for not being able to invest.
I’ve known about Aptera only on the periphery for the past couple years without looking too closely into the company. However, just in the past couple days I’ve done a deep dive into the company and the Gamma prototype and I am completely smitten with the company and vision. Placed a reservation yesterday and looking forward to following their journey to production. Their transparency is a huge benefit and it helps all parties remain accountable.
I like the transparency. All good as long as they’re _not_ a public company.
I really don’t mind the delay… That’s internal stuff.
Transparency as is is good, just keeping us updated and as things are going along is fine. Once a month is a frequency and don't feel like we are in the dark.
Hi,
Today, driving around Washington DC, it was a nice sunny day. Not a lot of man covers or other obstacles in the center of the lane. (practicing 3rd wheel driving)
I was fantasizing driving these hills in an Aptera. This made me wonder about the status of "production".
My thinking went along these lines;
The owners of Aptera started as boat builders. That's the trade I'm in. And very familiar with.
Boats [100'+ yachts] are by way of production always treated as a 'one-of'. Multi million dollar project, whereby in the end a complete and stand alone, what I like to call, floating factory is produced. A lot of unknowns (owner changes mostly) pop up. Sometimes this results in having to do [expensive] things over.
In boat building, or re-fit, there is a rule of thumb. Well, it's actually two of the same. Namely:
- It takes twice as long and three times the money.
or
-It takes three times as long and double the money.
Long story short; I too wonder how Aptera is turning out. Because let's be honest about the upstart of Aptera. Hardly anything I can comprehend. I mean, Covid came and went. And then I saw from Aptera was huge pieces of metal being moved around to be machined. Holy guacamoley, who did budget that one in? How long did that take? 5 axel cnc foam cutting, sure, but a metal die with cooling?! in that size?!
That's different.
Long story short; yes, I would also like to know if this whole 'getting Aptera to production' enterprise was, like, 10 times longer and the decimal moved one or two space over to the right.
Cheers & thanks, Steve!
Those dies were very expensive. Chris said they weighed tons. The beauty is that they should last for a long time and every part they make will be identical. They are steel.
Thanks as always…Some of you may recall quite some time ago, (I am guessing 2022?), that there was the prospect of an “angel” investor for Aptera of around $21 million or so. Aptera released info about this and said that the investment was based on certain criteria that needed to be met. I believe that there was also some executive privileges that would occur for the investor if this actually happened. The time framework has passed but there has never been an update that I am aware of. I believe it was around the same time that their CFO resigned.
Other than this, I think that they have been very strategic in their communications.
I was wondering about that too.
I wouldn't have invested without the transparency
I think your take is right and they have made the right decision on disclosures. They don't make excuses and admit to issues when it is obvious. Somehow they manage to keep things under wraps; like the flip up front fairings!
I always looked at the Gamma as the original PI of the Kevlar design. But the number of orders pushed past what was reasonable for production. Even you questioned the ability to make even 20 bodies per day with hand layup using Kevlar. Originally they were thinking 3-4 thousand a year, soon they had 8,000 orders. SMC and CPC provided a solution to major production. In the December 2022 update Vecchi states they had been working with them for about 18 months. So June of 2021 or about when the Rich Rebuilds video came out where orders hit 20K. Obviously not willing to talk about it just then. Nor should they. Nothing was set in stone.
At the Gamma event your question about the hatch latch and other hatch questions basically got 'we fixed all that and you will see that in the next design'. I think everyone's jaw dropped when we learned about CPC. It was a great move adding their skills that added the aluminum frame/crash bar, upgraded the suspension and door design on top of make the body. I have no doubt it will drive and handle wonderfully.
Recently we are seeing a tubular metal piece in the CG of the BinC coming together. Chris M told a recent reviewer that it is a roll bar made of steel. I think you should clarify that. Tubing type [chrome moly?], is it chrome plated, is it roll bar or hard points for the doors that also lock the carbon pieces together [or both]? I tend to think the big mass of carbon on top is the roll bar. As the tubular piece fits into a gap in the carbon arch but it does go over the front of the roof creating a halo. It could be a newer steel alloy? But a cro-mo frame to support the doors makes sense and chrome plating can add surface hardness to the metal making it more durable and more rust resistant.
I hope Aptera can avoid the mistakes of what Fisker is going through currently. From Fisker Ocean horror stories (Fisker subReddit), to a delisting notice now given by the NYSE. I hope for the very best for Aptera, but I’d be cautiously optimistic for them.
I think i get what they are doing but I could be wrong. if ii'm right it flows with the original concept and intent of the whole project.
One factor is that anything involving supplier relationships / contracts can fall through at the last moment (& that's pretty common). So for example, if CPC had got cold feet at the last minute, then they'd still need to progress the original design.
I get it if investors are curious, but as a UK reservation holder, my ride will be a few years yet. As a note, announcing something before confirmed can result in a serious amount of egg on face, especially for grants or core construction methods. All businesses should have reserve plans if something doesn't pan out.
When tackling regulatory issues, the options are to either comply or to lobby for outdated ones to be changed. Only one of those choices is in direct control of the company, so to wang on about the other every month until the monolith moves would be very off-putting.
Aptera is doing it right so far. For my own one, I hope to see rapid updates on EU/UK homologation once the Accelerator Programme fulfilment is significantly underway. So that's another year or so for confirmation of EU facilities (at CPC?), how the issues in the L7 class regulations are being tackled, how the RHD versions will be scheduled into production, and so on.
Steve. Thanks for the video. I think they are sharing the right information in the right amount. I trusted them with the information I had around the moment. There’s always risk involved in investing in a startup company.
I enjoy the show without demanding further answers.
the amount of transparency they give is perfect You cant tell everyone every route your planning and have people interfering or profiting/exploiting off of it. Also it looks bad if they try a lot of things and fail/don't finish perception wise and will be on endless conference calls explaining themselves the public or investors. You shouldn't have to explain your many failures to the world to get to your one success
I look at the company as having a delayed transparency. Information usually lags about 1 to 3 months or more except in extreme cases, like for example: When the community had a massive negative reaction when they originally announced that the launch edition would not have DC fast charging. They promptly changed course rapidly due to the backlash.
As an ongoing development, it is not in their best interest, (Or ours.) to tell us of every idea they are working on before it comes to fruition. Some ideas don't pan out for good reason, unworkable, too expensive, too heavy, etc. ad infinitum. Not telling us about every hair-brained idea that comes up in a free-wheeling idea session gives them the ability to think outside the box and means they don't have to be married to every idea that comes along. You bring up a case in point about the hand-built honeycomb body structure. Turns out that the CPC company had already invented the wheel and Steve and Chris both jumped on it as a better way, (Faster, more consistent, lighter, and hopefully stronger, as actual crash testing will soon tell.) to build their body.
One thing to consider with a company that is innovating as much as they are... Delayed transparency helps to protect their IP. You can bet that someone is already in the process of copying them. By keeping things close to their vest until after decisions are made and contracts are inked, NDAs are likely already in place. While an NDA won't fully protect them, it'll slow the copy cats a bit.
The copies will happen. Let's make sure these guys at least get off the ground first!
They are Working Sixteen Beats to the Measure! News Updates gotta be fitted in for the Most part, and Big News still has to Be Work Permitting. They are doing a great job IMNSHO. They notify Us when all the Burrs are combed out. I am Happy with the Timeliness of Their Info.
Where there is a will there is a way, i personally have been impressed with Apteras solutions and designs so far so good.
I am curious where our battery level coolant warning and fill will be😊 I'm sure the battery and any future upgrades will be more than perfect timing honestly 😊
@@1978rayking There will be no lead acid battery fill. they will use an LI battery for the 12 volt system. The window washer fluid fill is by the left door jam.
@n.brucenelson5920 I was thinking about the coolant and where will the sensors for the coolant be, like level and temp or maybe its a sight glass or something?
@@1978rayking Oh, OK. I don't know locations. I do know that there are separate antifreeze loops - one for the battery that runs at lower peak temps, and one for the wheel motors and inverters that can run at higher temps. The batteries also have to be heated under some conditions. I have not seen further details.
@n.brucenelson5920 hmm ok makes sense because would need cooling as well sometimes, I think some electric cars can run the flow of their coolant for heating or cooling in either direction. The used multiple times, pressures, expanding, contracting lines, possible special belly or other radiator, type condenser or something as well. All will need access at some point down the road, the most failures for cooling and heating lines are the type with other connections like plastics and rubbers to metals to eachother, but the seals like the little o rings on the ends usually last longer. Aluminum last longer then hoses every time when it's all aluminum lines. I actually hated having to get to AC lines when they eventually leaked. Hopefully Aptera only has some panels or something or atleast bolts that can be tap and die if someone strips a body bolt not lining it up correctly 😉 all that stuff is common. People hate how gas never make things easier.
I approve of their transparency.
I think they've struck a healthy balance. Any less information and it would start to feel like they're hiding stuff from us, but if they gave away too much it would put a lot of pressure on the employees. When your direct decisions can get widespread public criticism very soon after you make them, all the time, that's a lot to handle. I would guess that most of the decisions that Aptera makes regarding releasing information is either tied to protecting employees or legal and financial obligations
They still have to comply NDA with suppliers, and this level of transparency is better than any startups that I know of
A project as complex as the new Aptera necessarily proceeds step by step. Before each "final" decision step, options are considered and all but one discarded. Transparency in the options-consideration phase would be a distraction. In this phase, even the person in charge might not know the most likely outcome. Of course, part of decision making can involve customer surveys and feedback, but making that public brings with it drawbacks, as most options are discarded, even they customer favorites, due to cost, availability, reliability, or any number of factors we are not privy to. Investors and buyers are not a part of the design team, so we really have no need to know during the process.
Occasional revelation of firm decisions makes sense and I think that's what Aptera is doing. I wish they were farther along on ALL firm decisions, but that probably won't happen until customer cars are rolling out the door. (Or even later ...)
Prefer Aptera acknowledging issues and saying they are working on it. Honesty and integrity. You too have been a beacon of light pertaining to Aptera. Thank you Steve 🎈
I prefer being updated after the problems have been resolved. Problems have a tendency to go in multiple directions until a resolution has been implemented.
I don’t need to know everything they are thinking and experimenting with. I’m happy being told about it when they decide to put it on the car. When they go public, there will probably be more delay and vagueness to communication.
It makes me giggle that every three wheel vehicle learns about the center headlight way into the process. I think Aptera did the best job of incorporating the center light into the design. Electra Meccanica just stuck a light on the hood when they learned about it in 2016.
I agree it can be a double edge sword, but like the ride analogy you brought up, the transparency allows for the community to rally and be proactive, so this "ride" has room to accommodate new passengers with new ideas to further the cause and goal of Aptera. Tis a fine line for sure. Could be marketing/NDA causes as well, where there is a timeline to when they can officially announce something.
Well maybe before this month is done we will see some deliveries of the forged carbon body parts etc.
This is the first that I heard that they will do most of the cooling through ventilation rather than skin cooling. I assume they have cabin vent ports near the windshield wipers, will these be used to keep the batteries cool as well? If they have other vents, hopefully they pull the air in from the back of the car where it may even help to lower the coefficient of drag further, rather than a grill, which increases the drag. Mostly, I have noticed that as the vehicle gets closer to production, it becomes more attractive.
I think they can do a better job of informing customers of the compromises that they will get with different configurations. A larger battery adds weight, making it less efficient. Also, as a work vehicle, one would want a few extra hundred pounds of capacity to haul things. 250 pounds of capacity is just enough for two adult males. I was intent on getting the 2wd version, but I discovered that they recommend the ruggedized, 3 wheel version for snowy climates. As of now, I am still confused about what parts will be carbon fiber, aluminum and fiberglass and I would not be surprised if that is subject to change. Personally, I like the idea of foam somewhere on the envelope of the body for reducing thermal conductivity of the cabin (summer and winter) and battery in the wintertime.
I like the level of transparency as it is. I've worked in startups in engineering and product development. There is a product development process that includes lots of gates and you don't decide on going forward until you've passed all the gates. For example, the plastic laminate was chosen, and worked, and they likely thought they might be able to improve it with glass, but until they could take it through several development gates and compared it with the plastic and found and negotiated a fair price amongst other things, they likely wouldn't pass the final (into production) gate. This is what accounts for the time between the idea and the implementation, and not until that point would they be sure, so why mention it? A lot of us (myself included) already second-guess their decisions. In my startups our product development teams and the decision makers were very small teams for a reason, otherwise you'd be hard pressed to make progress in a reasonable time, and there are steps along the way to get feedback from pretty much everybody in the company, vendors and customers in some cases. That's also why they do feature freezes which we've already seen. We did have input into the DC Fast Charging, but that was already a considered and engineered option, so relatively easy to change. The Aptera will also likely change after the Accelerator version based on user input. Thanks for what you do Steve.
I wouldn't have been as comfortable investing in the company if they weren't as transparent
Any company using crowdfunding is obligated to maximize transparency. That being said, I don't want the employees and managers at Aptera spending all their time putting together updates for us...I want them to get the damn car into production. I trust they're considering this and balancing accordingly.
I wouldn't want them to overshare about negotiations in progress. Seems like that would kill their leverage if suppliers knew whether Aptera was all-in on a vendor or whether the vendor's product was considered a commodity with several equivalent options.
I love the updates that Aptera provides, but I don't necessarily need to know how the sausage is made.
Great video Steve. I agree with all of those who said that the current level of transparency is enough. Video ends at 14:44, why does it go till 21:41???
Some times I get the impression that they are slow in decision making. That's likely because I only get a fraction of the problems and the complexity, but it may seed some doubts. There are probably good justifyable reasons.
I generally have confidence in the founders. They always make sensible arguments.
Maybe they could accelerate engineering by crowd sourcing ideas, sourcing options and analysis ?? Maybe it would just create noise and be counter productive ??
Aptera has competition, too. For example, there's a Volvo with screen air vents coming out soon/now. Aptera revealed that ages ago but Volvo can get to market first.
I think they are doing well so far. If they did anymore I would question why they are spending so much money on developing, writing, filming, and creating content instead of just make the vehicle. They do enough to keep us informed and that is fine by me. Today they are probably working on whatever they were working on yesterday because that's how long term project work. I do not need an everyday check-in.
There's only so much time in the day for these very busy people.
Information about every path along the way starts to explode at some point into wild goose chasing for no good reason.
I think Aptera is pretty much doing it right as is.
I have several of my own questions, like tow hook? Control arm torque vs fatigue? Emergency brake? Any possibility for roof rack mounts for a kayak? (I get the solar compromise from shading but that's not a showstopper). Enough..
Aptera is more transparent with the public than virtually every corporation that I have worked for are with their own employees.
I would love more transparency from Aptera, but it will likely have a negative impact for all the reasons that you mentioned in this video. Satisfying my curiosity should not be a major corporate goal for Aptera.
As for the prerelease edition not being wind tunnel tested, we have not been informed of any testing. This does not mean that it hasn’t been tested. It is hard to prove a negative.
They sometimes hint at things. I have no problem with that. I understand why this happens. Sometimes you carry one thing until you get something better in place, there is no reason to bring in uncertainy that will just feed the naysayers. I missed the radiator, BTW.
Anyone else check their phone with Steve's phone did a notification chime at 1:09? 🤣
They should continue to do what they do cause it's working.
What is being described is a weakness of any large multinational enterprise. They should tell you what you need to know as they do. Learned a lot. You just nailed it about the negative chatter. Dont give them anything they can use against you. The investors should not be stearing the company. Need to know? These people know what they are doing. And they believe in the vision and they know the technology is avalable to bring it into reality.
I'm an airline pilot, I can tell you that 100% open honesty to passengers only scares the crap out of those that have NO CLUE what they are hearing. Unless you are an expert in Government Regulation within the Auto industry And/Or a structure engineer and have your doctorate in human factor design....the things they are dealing with would be so far over your head- your reaction would be more of fear....fear of the unknown-when in actuality ALL is WELL
Is anyone else seeing Aptera ads now? I get video ads on streaming services and pop-up ads for them when searching the web.
I think you answered your own question...do you trust that Aptera will make the right decisions, moving towards the stated design, business goals. I think their communication hits the right balance of sharing progress and decisions with investors/public and running a successful, start-up. We are not the ones charged with solving encountered problems and reviewing various options. Keep up the good work with the AOClub!
The answer is no. Of course they shouldn't tell us about their process before decisions and changes. There's nothing helpful in it for them, or for us, to share incomplete or unclear info, much less their roadblocks.
I’d like to see the first assembly of the first P.I. Build
My take is that they don't have everything designed to final specs until they are done with that subsystem. Once they have a subsystem design, then they tell us about that if it's relevant for the public.
I don't think it's about transparency, I think it's about certainty. In engineering generally, but especially for manufacturing, it's hard to know exactly which option of out of many is best and you usually have to juggle simultaneously many options before you can choose the right one. If they told us every single possibility before one was chosen, it would be a firehose of information and not very useful. I've noticed that Chris Anthony tends to choose words carefully like this, he'll say what they are currently thinking, but not the absolute about it. We hear about things after they've been worked on for months, because that's how long it takes in business to resolve a thing.
(1) Our interaction with Aptera Motors is a lot like going to a pyramid sales conference - all positive exhortation, but without the lies.
(2) No use telling us something has changed until the ink on the contracts are dry.
I like how they are releasing information now. What I look forward to is the book that tells the full background of the trials and tribulations the team faced - again, after the fact. We as future consumers don’t always need to see how the sausage is made.
Gotta agree with the vast majority of y'all who've chimed in: I am A-OK with their content delivery. These guys clearly do not stop in their quest to bring to market, in an exemplary manner, something that we all want to believe is going to change the world in a very positive, never-look-back sort of way. They are going to blow the doors off conventional energy and transportation models. I am quite bullish on this, and am not waning now 4 years into intently following them. They make very good decisions, and I like that.
Yes,, it would be a bad Idea to talk about potiential contracts until theye are finalized. While I wish I could be more sure of when I will get my Aptera, that will only be more sure when they get the big investor that they need to produce the high production equipment that they need for the solar pannels.
What they have said khas given me confidence in them, so it is the only investment that I have made that could be concidered risky.
I agree with everything you say!
Aptera, Like all businesses, has company secrets. strategies, key thrusts, technical advances, current financial position, alliances etc. that are proprietary. If we as investors and/or depositors had signed NDA's then it would make sense that they share more, but their updates are immediately available to everyone so that is not the right way to do so. I just don't see how they could play it any other way.