CRIMINAL?!? | Frieren Beyond Journey's End Ep 1x6+7 Reaction & Review | Madhouse
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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Yall should watch the next three episodes together 8,9, and 10
100% agree on this.
I also agree with this. Otherwise they will wish they did because it will be a big cliff hanger on this arc lol
As seein in the jjk series, rhey probably record those in advance, cuz there was no mwnrion of BR episode 17 on the video, nor a response in further videos.
Yep - i would actually add first half of episode 11 as well.
great idea
I agree that the demon child wasn't being malicious. In the same way that a polar bear isn't being malicious when it chases you down.
Like a pet tiger, perhaps, it's usually docile and friendly, but get it scared or hungry and it'll lash out. It'll understand some of the rules you impose on it, enough that you think it understands all of them, but it doesn't.
@@StarkRG My best shot at this point is "a pack of hungry wolves with ChatGPT installed"
Yeah, I disagree with everyone who talks about how nice it is that the demons in Frieren are just pure evil. I don't think they're evil at all, because they're not moral actors. In order for them to be evil, there would first need to be a person there, but demons aren't persons, they're imitations of persons.
Therefore, we should push the polar bears to extinction (jk ofc but it's a perspective)
I think Stark was saying that Eisen used real force, the kind he reserved for a monster, not the force used to wrap someone on the knuckles with a ruler.
9:00 Barkeep is here gaslighting the kid. That original Jumbo Berry Special was huge. Shrinkflation is real.
The passage of time is cruel (for a small business)
Capitalism is a cruel mistress.
They also had a blockade due to the demons acting up.
@@orcajorca7215 Too true. Presumably fruit and icecream are southern imports rather than northern ones, but there wouldn't be a lot of trade coming up from the south if it couldn't proceed further north or pick up northern goods for a return trip. So, the whole border town was likely in a recession to one degree or another.
The dude is still gaslighting him about it, though.
Its funny that the anime makes us see from Top view so we know that it shrunk 😂
So, rewatching this I noticed when Frieren was talking about her teacher being forgotten, there's a sneaky shot of Himmel listening. Then we see that Himmel is always getting statues made of the group. Himmel doesn't want the world to forget her.
7:45
they say anime jokes but that bit would not be out of place on an American sitcom lol
And it's actually pretty in character for Fern, being a perv but not even realising it and projecting it on Stark later or scolding Frieren for the same thing she does herself. It's more than just a cheap joke (although it's obviously not the greatest joke in the world, I'm not trying to say it's comedy genius or anything). It's a sign of Fern's subconscious hypocrisy at times. She's awesome but she's not perfect and I love her for it.
I like Clarus's point at 18:00 where the show understands itself and not everything is portrayed super dire or that a clever solution is required but when we get there it's not very clever.
Re: Eisen hitting Stark for the first time, I’ve trained martial arts for most of my life and have been teaching for >10 years too. For most schools, there’s a big difference between the level of force one uses in a training setting (especially as an instructor working with a student) and the level of force that manifests when someone is fighting for their life. Stark getting hit by a *serious* and *fearing for his life* Eisen (for the first time & with no warning) would reasonably frighten & confuse him.
Yeah, the whole thing is that this is BEYOND journey's end. The actual dangerous adventure is already over. Frieren now gets to spend her time as she wants.
And IMHO them not having to overcome huge and dangerous obstacles, not even having a very important goal (saving the world!) and still somehow managing to keep me interested and entertained and getting me to think is what makes the show so special.
To your wondering why the child demon acted in a way that seemed like it just didn't understand what it was doing when it killed that village chief; It always felt to me that it was playing the long game. The demon was trying to put everyone at ease so it could eventually betray and kill that whole village, but people weren't willing to forgive it after killing the child. It figured the best solution would be to replace the child so they would trust it finally. Then it was confused why killing another person was bad or even what familial attachment was. I don't think it was acting in a way to ask for forgiveness, but more to placate everyone.
I also don't think it was seeking forgiveness, but I don't think it was playing much of a game either. I think the demon saw an opportunity to kill someone of power and authority and, according to the habits of demons, implicitly inherit that power and authority. It was genuinely surprised when the villagers responded not with submission but with retaliation, and it was surprised again when its apparently favorable trade of a child for its own life was also met with hostility. Demons are so far removed from how we think that a young demon with little knowledge of the world would reasonably be dumbfounded by human behavior.
Demon prey on Human, it's that simple.
Like Bears prey on smaller animals and fruits. Demons are a type of monster that prey on Human in this world.
I feel you're giving that demon kid too much credit. In that flashback, we're watching a psychopath in action. Able to mentally perceive the villagers' desire, but incapable of properly putting it together. Not understanding the concept of family bonds. Not understanding the value of life. Not understanding the human concept of lasting legacy. I read off that scene that she really wanted peace in that village (because, hey, easy ride), but her core values were so off it was essentially impossible in the long term. Combine that with demons liking the taste of mankind over any other food, and yeah it was a disaster waiting to happen. It just wasn't a particularly cunning disaster. IMHO
To clarify, I don't mean to say that the demon had a 'master plan'. It was obviously doing what it needed to survive. But more I mean, it had the intention to kill as many people as possible, it was overpowered, so then it was biding its time. It just needed to wait for the right opportunity. It just made bad/ignorant decisions.
Me, a German: "hmm, this Lügner guy seems a bit dishonest…"
😂
One of the best things i find about this show, it's how unassuming and straight-forward it is without conceits
Yeah, understanding German is kinda a spoiler in this show.
Honestly, I love Frieren's demons, they are predators that eat humans and only use language to confuse prey
The demon girl wasn't trying to be nice, it was trying to trick the people into thinking it was not a threat, and didn't understand it made its position worse . That's why it immediately switched to taking a hostage.
She wasn't trying to trick anybody. She thought that was a way to keep herself safe from the viligers defence. Everything suggests she was just interested in self preservation and living in peace. Maybe she'd get bored of it later, but that's the case at this moment.
@@Ryuu44 This is a good rationalization. If you like arguing for literal sociopaths.
In universe and out of universe; the demons are stated to be downright evil.
@@familyvalue5588 Literal sociopaths are able to be high functioning and intelectualy understand the rules. You don't need emotions to use your intelligence to get it.
Yes, they're "stated" as evil. That's the opinion of the humans/elves in the story. That doesn't mean we won't get a twist and a reveal a 100 chapters from now that changes our understanding of them.
13:15 Actually Nerdy is right. Part of training specially martial arts is stress testing. You can't train boxing without getting punched in the face a couple of time. That would only get you in trouble when a real fight(sport or not) comes around. The same is with combat with weapons. Hema, Kendo and other disciplines that involve close combat will make you get hit A LOT and it's going to hurt. Obviously with safety precautions like armor or dull weapons and all that but it's important to get hit.
From what we see, stark did get hit by eisen a lot.
But as you said, in a safe manor that just hurts. Not eisens actual serious mode, the dude can crush diamonds with his hands.
@hulmhochberg8129 yeah, I understand that and it makes sense. Stark later on has feats that would have been impossible if he wasn't ready for painful experiences already.
I love that the demon Lugner is not only lying about having lost his father in the human-demon war, he actually neither knows what a father is NOR HAS HE BOTHERED TO FIND OUT. It's literally enough to know when to say it.
If you want to know how old Fern is during the anime just subtract 11 from the years since Himmel’s death. In episode 3 Fern says that she is 16 years old and that is when it was 27 years since Himmel’s death. When Frieren met Fern at Heiter’s place it was 20 years after the death of Himmel so Fern was 9 at that time.
The voice actress that voices Frieren, Mallorie Rodak, is known for voicing elves in several anime. Examples Goblin Slayer and Mushoku Tensei. If you want to hear more of her voice I recommend watching those shows.
*elves for plural
She adds a dynamic nature which is far more attuned to the character’s motivations and actions.
The one time I'll say something about dub vs sub - Lügner is voiced in Japanese by Suwabe Junichi - the VA for Sukuna - and later there is a character voiced by Nakamura Yuuichi (Gojo's VA). Suwabe lends such a sexy menace to Lügner that the English Va doesn't have at all - it does make a difference sometimes.
The English main cast VA’s add a lot that the original doesn’t have which more than balances it out. Frieren herself gets brought a level of dynamics which resolve the ludonarrative dissonance that an apathetic voice has compared to her actions and motivations.
32:32 it’s not evil, we just perceive it as such. In the show demons are a completely separate species of predators that learned how to speak and think like humans so they can hunt them better. It’s not out of malice, demons eat humans for food and they do whatever it takes to hunt them down. You wouldn’t attribute malice to a hunter setting up a hidden trap in the forest to catch a rabbit. We just instinctively think of it as evil because they look like us and can speak.
13:59 he meant it as it was the only time he hit him as not part of training but to actually cause him serious harm (as we know he acted on defensive instinct because he was scared so he hit the kid to kill in that moment)
That experience with the demon girl, that was a learning experience for Himmel, not Frieren. Frieren had been alive for over a thousand years at that point, and she had known what demons are for over a thousand years. She tried to tell Himmel, but he didn't listen. His compassion got the better of him. The fact that Frieren went along with it and didn't blast the demon girl right away shows how much she respected Himmel. Or that she understood that he needs to learn for himself.
Feels demons in the vicinity:
Frieren: You will not see the end of this day!!!!
23:41 I actually really like this addition to the lore. Especially if you look at it from an biological/evolutionary standpoint, it would make total sense that creatures that could live for thousands of years would naturally lack reproductive urges as strong as species that only live for days, or a few decades. They’d over populate within a few generations.
This is the first time I've heard the dub version, it's fine, I guess, but you lose a _lot_ of the kawaii in translation (such as Frieren's joyous but unintelligible sounds as she approaches the loot being replaced with "the treasure is mine!"). Sometimes this doesn't do much but make a scene less cutsey and fun, but other times it'll make a character come off as a creep or an asshole.
That said, I'd give a dub a shot if it's at least partly written and voiced by Nerdy and Clarus.
Regarding the hit Eisen gave Stark, I think Stark meant that it was the only time Eisen hit him with force as opposed to getting hit in training which would have been little more than taps. Eisen would have normally pulled his punches, but didn't that one time. It could also mean it was the only time he hit Stark with his fists as opposed to a training sword or axe
I don't undertand North americans. They have popular and beloved shows with literally rape and racist jokes but a sexual joke in a japanese teenage boy show is weird for them.
It was unexpected for Fern to go there.
@@benn454 Not really, she's in that age.
@@benn454 also the only males she has spent any time with where Heiter and to a lesser extent Eisen.
@@mray4784 It's not about her age. It's about not expecting dick jokes from a show like Frieren.
@@Ghorda9 It doesn't have anything to do with Fern as a character. It has to do with the type of show Frieren is.
Please make a exception and watch ep 8,9 and 10 together.
The elves being biologically immortal means that you'll eventually pop out a kid or two by pure RNG over 50,000+ years. As for changing up outfits, she does that every few hundred years.
Id imagine her outfit is a pretty high lvl item or something.
And as a former wow player, "you dont switch purples with blues".😂😂
フリーレンって人間で言えばまだ１０代なんだけれども英語の声優さんは３０代みたいな声だねえ
15:30 their challenges aren’t physical, they are all emotional and inter personal conflicts they need to solve
This episode, knowing German has not served me well, because:
Lügner = liar (very subtle xD)
The other two demons' names are Draht = wire; Linie = line
cant spell HIMel without HIM
I absolutely adore you both, and before I bitch about the dub (lol) I want to make something absolutely clear. I'm happy you two are watching this at all, and however you enjoy it best is the correct way for both of you to do that :)
What bothers me though, is that the dub... woefully under-represents the tone of certain scenes. For starters... The mother of the child who the demon killed didn't say "she took our daughter" She said "it ate our daughter". It's not just the way things are said... it's the actual content of what's said.
And unfortunately it's probably due to an attempt to line up the lip flap animation rather than match the original meaning. There's more than one point where the dub butchers the content to the point where scenes which are solemn or silent with only a few words to add tension, are acted with comedy in mind... terrible lol.
And I say that with respect for the English VAs too... I assume the direction for them was the culprit here.
Anyways, you're both Amazing lol. I don't want you to think I'm trying to enforce my will on what you two ought do. It's just that the dub is so grating to me that the only thing getting me to continue watching your reaction to this is the fact that I'm watching it for you both, not the content you're reacting to lol.
Anyways, hopefully some people will get angry enough with my comment here to respond and get you guys engagement ;) lmao
PS: I've been looking through UA-cam for an ActualPlay/Liveplay of a TTRPG and I just remembered that you both do TTRPG content as well. So I'm going to be spelunking to see if there's a long-running campaign of yours I can put on while I work :)
Much Love and Respect, *waves*
I can't get over the pronunciation of Stark's name on the dub.
The demon called "Lügner" may be lying... but I may be wrong!
In the sub, they make it more obvious that the small demon was misusing words to get away with everything it wanted.
The show is more about the journey/slice of life for the characters, and enjoying the little moments that Frieren missed the first time. It's not about world ending stakes or an epic purpose.
That being said, there is some of that too, and you won't be disappointed, in my opinion.
Love from Belgium 🇧🇪♥️ it’s a long journey and at the pace you are going, you’ll enjoy the story for a long time ❤❤
The dub v sub fight doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore. It made sense even 10 years ago when dubs were a lot worse. Today they do a good job on most shows.
For the acting, this is mostly true, but I very much prefer the translation used for the sub than the translation used for the dub. The dub's "That thing took our daughter" does not have the abject horror of the sub's "That thing ate our daughter". Or with the skirt-flipping, Himmel's dub of "I've been wanting to do that for ages" is substantially creepier than the sub's "You saw what I've been wanting to see". There's a few similar examples where I think the sub translation is superior, but no examples where I think the dub translation is superior. But both sets of voice actors are good.
Honestly I much prefer sub because the direction and timing is almost always better.
No shade on the dub actors, but the animation was made for the Japanese line read.
That leaves the translator with a rough job to try and convey the same thing at the same time and thats before we get words that just don't directly translate.
Seems to me like the whole vibe of the show is different. The dialog seems dumb-downed on the dubbed version and the characters take on different personalities. Just my opinion.
This dub isn't bad in general but the way they pronounce some names wrong irks me a lot. It's like they put 0 effort into researching the names and mispronouncing a main character of all people... someone did a really bad job on that front.
@@dreamz1417you know the names are pronounced accurate in this dub, the names dont originate from japan so they arent going to follow the japanese pronounciations
Fern would have no clue about men's bodies, it's the first one she's would have seen naked so who knows what she imagined it would look like and she's probably just teasing Stark also. I don't think either Fern or Stark know anything about, have any clue how to deal with, their growing relationship with each other.
Eisen whacked Stark lots of times while training. Stark was talking about really hitting him, full force, a real attack.
Monsters disappear in a lot of fantasy anime because they're almost always inspired by old video games, particularly old RPGs.
i think in this case, its safe to say that all monsters share that trait and thats why demons also disappear because they evolved from monsters
"This was my favorite episode so far." Oh boy, buckle your ass!
Demons instinctually prey on humans and don’t understand the concepts of empathy, guilt, or love. That is their physiology. Elves on the other hand are similar to humans but their emotions are much more subtle. They understand human emotions better than demons. Both elves and demons can live for a very long time but elves live way longer than demons.
Supporting u with that comment is a coo extra.
But please just watch one episode in sub to see where we are coming from.
Conserning your question about why people mirror the behavior they want to see of others and respectively mirror behaviors themselves unconciously ( 20:00 ). As the human is a social animal it has certain mechanisms for learning behavioral patterns. These can even be traced to special neuronal connections. If you really want to dive deep on that matter check out "Mirror neurons" but i guess thats far fetched here :D sorry got carried away :D
also: Start watching in sub allready! :D
Fern and Stark are lvl 10, Frieren's lvl 20. Dragons aren't that impressive, above average demons are generally more dangerous. Other monsters can be way more dangerous than dragons too, those aren't D&D adult dragons xD
The demon girls wasn't apologetic as she can't even understand feeling bad or apologising but she was just trying to rationally ensure peace as it was convenient for her, but her rationality is inherently flawed because it can't take human emotions into account. It is possible that just like wild animals can be tamed over generations, demons selectively bred for less violent instinct and raised from birth by a similarly long lived species life an elf would be able to co-exist even if they can't feel the same feelings as humans and elves, but it's hardly a practical (or ethical) solution.
So what's interesting here is that they didn't go for the "they're redeemable" route, but they didn't go the "they're evil for evil's sake or for no reason" route either. Instead, demons are just animals, slaves to their predatory instincts and lack of pity. That combination of predator-like characteristics and the fact that they're sapient beings like humans leads to interesting scenarios. They're a good representation of a truly alien species that's on our level.
And Fern and Stark are absurdly over-levelled for their ages, while Frieren is kinda under-levelled for hers?
@@chaircheck2424 I wouldn't quite say that Frieren is underlevelled, she essentially kept her training the entire time. (SPOILER)
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If you're talking about Serie's comments about her being unskilled for her age, that's merely a reflection on *how* she used her training, basically Serie says Frieren is not spending her skill points optimally by focusing on mana suppression too much, but she has as many skill points (hours of training and experience) as she should for her age.
A small season 2 teaser: there was an incredibly cool fight against an opponent who was much stronger than Frieren in the manga, and it will probably make its way into the season 2.
dub is fine, just watch what makes you comfortable, but i do reccomend atleast once to watch the sub version just to see the difference, it might be interesting to hear your opinion on it...
I personally think the sub for this show is better but idgaf who watches it in what. People be wilding with how much they yell at people
Oh you guys are going to ENJOY the next group of episodes
The ost of that demon child's death is underrated though
They really put a lot of work into the art. In the manga, Star's fight against the dragon was only like 4 or 6 panels.
To address your big concern during episode 6. The show is fairly light-hearted for the most part, but spends time and drills down into times where more time needs to be spent. This demon arc as well as some episodes near the end of the season are not skipped over. Instead, they are given the proper time to delve into the story, motivations, and characters.
Enjoy. :D
I need a version of Nerdy's shirt that has a chest pocket.
1:33 nope just raw physical power, he ain’t got an ounce of magic in him
Do you have a version of your reacts behind a paywall that doesn't cut the video every other scene?
Why does Stark sound like a smoker in his 30s?
Personally, I think the portrail of demons here is a breath of freash air from how it is now of trying to do the whole "grey morality" thing. Besides, what's more terrifying than a monster that uses human morality and empathy against you? It's definitely a fascinating way to do it that isn't explored much.
They do make things smaller over time, cadberies cream egg has been scientifically proven, they denied it for years before being called out!
A new teaser came out for the next sinners trailer
Question : what’s makes the internal dialogue in other series understandable and easy to figure out and what makes the internal dialogue in JJK so confusing for you
Here for the dub v sub comment, personally i much prefer sub however i really do enjoy Frierens English voice actor which i would'nt have heard if i didnt watch your videos
I'm pretty sure the axe ain't magic, it's basically just a hard sharp heavy lump of metal; Stark is just _that_ good (though not as good as Eisen was, yet).
Dub is fine, but I can recommend at least checking out the sub version.. maybe this short arc (ep 8,9,10) and then you can switch back to dub
Sukuna va and Frieren in cold af mode are worth it
Watching 9 & 10 together is key. Unfortunate you'll be splitting them up 😢
Worry you will, but not really until mid season two whenever ir comes out.
the frieren dub is one of the best i've ever watched. it was also good in german.
There's a few things that I find interesting about Frieren's take on "Demons are just inherently evil":
1) The humanoid demons tend to be light skinned and attractive, which is a subversion of the inherently evil races usually having darker skin tones and being ugly. Gives the vibe of vampiric nobles feeding off the common people. Though young demons tend to be dressed in rags.
2) The assertion that humans are prey for demons (and in the sub translation, humans are explicitly eaten by demons) does cast them as more a threat like the dragon than a threat like an enemy country. They didn't negotiate with the dragon either, they just killed it. The dragon was intelligent enough to recognize a threat and leave the village alone. Why does Frieren (the show) want us to be fine with that, but question killing the demons?
3) That the flashback still has shades of "blue and orange morality". The demon kid is arguably attempting to find an honest solution to deal with the problem of the family of the kid she ate from hating her, but is working from a sense of morality that is so far away from human morality that it just doesn't work at all. The next couple episodes show that demons do have some morality about some forms of deception, but in ways that make pretty much zero sense to humans.
4) That all of this is through Frieren's viewpoint and she is not a reliable narrator. She is just now figuring out how humans work and just now learning the subtext of previous interactions with humans, so why would we believe she knows how demons work?
5) As someone who has not yet read the manga, I have to assume there's a reason that the Demon King's castle is right next to Heaven, and that reason might explain a lot about demons.
While I tend to agree with criticism of "fantasy race X is inherently evil" or even "fantasy race X is under the sway of that thing that makes them evil" as being problematic by casting a sentient species being universally evil, I do think that the show leaves enough wiggle room around it to make it extremely interesting that they went this route.
so you argue that Frieren does not actually know what demons are, that her opinion is unreliable, yet Lugner says she understands them perfectly. Where is the error on her part?
Point 3 seems to also be the point of the show. Demons aren't evil, they're simply intelligent predators, it's their nature. You wouldn't call a man-eating tiger evil either.
@ Unreliable narrators are not necessarily wrong, but we should be aware that they are not omniscient. Likewise, Lugner is asserting that Frieren's views align with his, but he may not be correct either. Both of their experiences are thrown in to question by the flashback girl demon. She's murdering an entire family, but is doing it because she wants to become a part of the community. She's just REALLY bad at reading the community. There is solid evidence supporting Frieren/Lugnar's views, but that doesn't mean they are 100% correct.
@ Exactly. If the demons see humans as prey, their learning speech is basically like a fly fisher learning the best hooks for various fish or a hunter spraying the musk of their prey around a site. A hunter might use tactics on prey that they would never use on an intelligent being. But if demons can be convinced humans are intelligent, that may change. One of the things I'm very curious about is how demon society (and not just the Demon King's generals that stayed in the field after the war) have reacted to the Demon King's death. I don't consider man-eating tigers evil, but I'd definitely have questions if four of them fought their way into the White House and killed the president.
@@danielhendricks7604 she doesn't want to become part of the community, she just wants to keep hunting people. She showed ZERO affect while being taught by the chief, she didn't care.
HATE SPEACH HATE SPEACH HATE SPEACH
This reaction is so weird. Words say one thing, but body language, facial expressions and tone are super off.
Probably projecting, but it’s still super weird.
Sinners trailer 2 is out can you react
Just a small thing to consider - while it shares some tropes with a standard-DnD setting, this does not automatically mean that everything in it is following DnD ideas and systems. DnD itself has borrowed tons of things from other fantasy stories, it isn't unusual to find commonalities. And I fear seeing everything through a DnD lense might hamper some of your enjoyment later.
Both disagreeing and agreeing, in that there is a popular DnD clone in Japan that started in the 80s, that I can't remember the name of, that has grown is very popular that came from 2nd edition DnD. In many ways it's there version of Pathfinder. So, where we have multiple editions that have grown from 2nd edition and is very changed from its root, so too has that one, and they bend away from each other increasingly. So, you can very much see the DnD in the show and similar shows, the DNA has evolved.
@@holyrod2001 Look, there are hundreds if not thousands of ttrgps out there. My point isn't that you can't see some things in , my point is that it limits your ability to see what is in front of you. Spoken as someone who has seen several people respond to fantasy media in the past and being very disappointed because "it didn't fit to the rules" or similar concepts. We all approach things we read from our personal background, and with certain expectations, and as long as there isn't a "this media belongs to this specific IP/ttrpg system" I would not needlessly restrict myself by trying to press it into such a framework. But in the end you do you, I am making recommendations here, not trying to force people to do something specific.
@@ogami7661 YES, that's it! Thank you :)
Dubs are fine
Shrinkflation!
Fam Love U
Glad you’ve kept with the dub. I genuinely rate it more attuned to the plot than the sub.
Some of the lines I felt truly show that sadly didn’t make it into the reaction which is a shame.
I'm ok with watching dub on solid mid shows. Here it feels like such a waste.
If anything this is disintegrate.
Trash reaction lets goo
clap
Dub is more than fine. Thanks
Well, you make worse to yourself. JP voices are ten times better + dub make a lot of mistakes in translation
The dub is fantastic and sounds just fine stop crying
@@KingMaler00 It complete shit, it make Frieren sound alien and it change meaning of the dialogues
@@Алексей545-т6б who gives a shit they are professional voice actors and do a great job.
@@KingMaler00 English dub is a bunch of useless amateurs who pretend to be professional. JP voice actors are REAL profeccionals
do you speak fluent Japanese?
Once again: dub supremacy!
(eat up, algorithm)
Again, the dub+ your commentary makes it a lot more funnier than the sub alone. Just the melancholy is missing
I like the dub.
Switch to sub ffs
no.
They are the ones watching it, let them enjoy it how they like.
People arguing over subs have to be the saddest anime fans. Just let it go, nobody is impressed with how much of a "real fan" you are
It's not about being a "real fan", the voices legit sound like ass. Stark sounds like a middle aged man. English dub actors rarely fit the characters.