Glider Dual Tow Goes Wrong: Instructor Reacts!
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- It's not often we do dual tows, and even less often we have a tow upset on a dual tow, let alone capture it all on dual cameras!
Original video: • Video
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00:00 Glider View
03:00 Tow Plane View
06:23 Slow Motion Replay
07:45 Dual Tow Done Right - Наука та технологія
Having years of both tugging and gliding under my belt. My only comment is that the tug pilot must have been well and truly relieved to have those two gliders well and truly gone.
Well and truly. 😉
@@jordanstclaire Yeah for sure, and that's what we train for is if your too far out of station with the tug or you can't regain control release immediately, cause the tow pilot certainly will cut you off if he has too and then you risk damage to your controls and landing with the rope attached.
We were taught to release if the tow plane dipped his wings side to side get off before the 3rd dip or he'll do it.
I thought my tow position was bad when I'm learning and this one jist takes the cake and that position is super hard to maintain as you and many others would know.
yeah that looked unsafe from the start. Must've been a bad feeling
Well …… there’s a lot to be said for a proper briefing , that includes being absolutely sure everyone has a full understanding of what’s being done …..
Yeah absolutely
Hit the nail on the head their Stu. I was at the briefing that morning and flew the dual tow in all of the positions that day without issue. As an organisation we are keen to share all occurrences for educational purposes.
There’s a lot to be said for glider pilots being able to follow a comprehensive and clear briefing, but when the majority are total dickheads, what do you expect?
@@PureGlide When in doubt get off the tow !!
Keyword: briefing.
First off, that Pawnee is way too clean. A credit to the club. And, once again, thank you to the folks involved for releasing the video. How not to do it and managing to recover.
Well said!
Q: Were those always originally built for crop dusting? They look robust.
Yeah they sure were
They may be like me Ryan 🤔 Someone (usaully my wife) cleans me up if there'll be photos
.
KabonkNo1 ~ All those feathers glued to that flexible stick Duct-Taped to the landing gear gives it away every time doesn't it 'though?
Well this Plane is on Wikipedia so they have a reputation to defend
Another thing done wrong was the turn after release. The pilot in the higher/shorter position should have turned left, not right, given that the other glider was on his right. Likely a case of habit, always turning ti the right expecting the towplane to go left. The pilots should have had a prior agreement that the left glider foes left, the right glider goes right and the towplane carries on straight forward.
It could end much worse, if the rope would stuck into the aileron, blocking it in non-neutral position. I know of such an accident that happened in Poland, the pilot in similar situation wanted to shake off the rope from the wing, applied aileron and rope moved there and blocked. Sadly, that did not end well...
I worked with a guy who used to seed rice paddies in Northern California. It wasn't uncommon for large flocks of migratory waterfowl to be in the rice paddies. He taught me that when a flock of birds comes up in front of the airplane, it's best to neutralize the controls and fly through them instead of maneuvering to avoid them. The reason being to prevent jamming the flight controls. It's a lesson I've carried with me through my flying career. I include it in all of my takeoff and approach briefings where there is an increased chance we encounter larger birds. Luckily, I haven't had a flock pop up in front of me, but I did take a lone Canadian goose directly to the windscreen on short final.
Did a lot of tugging before continuing my pilot career. The danger is when you have a lot of inexperienced pilots around you. Then anything can happen. The scariest for me was when a friend of mine was tugging a glider with the old version of a Pawnee, the one that has the fuel tank between the engine and the cockpit, the worst possible position for a fuel tank. At the start the glider pilot had not coupled the elevator correct and had not done a sufficient steering column check, so with no elevator control the glider went straight up pulling the tail of the tow plane hard up at lift off. So in fractions of a second the tow plane crashed into the ground before the tug pilot was able to release the rope. His Pawnee caught a fierce fire and my friend was burned to death in front of his two young daughters.
My take from this as a tug pilot was to always,always have your eyes glued to glider at take off and your hand on the release handle.
Whoa, that story is scary. How can you not connect an elevator correctly and miss that at inspection? Brrrr.
If I was the tug pilot I would be having words with both pilots.
The tow done properly was a thing of beauty. The other? Whew, pretty chilling!
In any briefing with critical items the best process is using repeat back. The instructor says to the low pilot. “When the top glider moves to the center high position, you move over and assume the normal low tow position.” Then the low pilot repeats back those instructions word for word. (At a USA nuclear power plant, the instructor would repeat it back again, three way communications. It becomes so instinctive to Operators that they will do it back to their wife, usually with a bad outcome)
You can really see that the tow pilot is having to work right rudder quite a bit. I wonder why he didn't radio the lower glider to move into a better position? Aside from a proper briefing, there's also communication.
Our field is too short for this sort of thing, so we've no experience doing this. Thanks for sharing this.
Yeah from what I saw I think the tow pilot was chatting to the guys on the radio
How do you know tug pilot didn't contact lower glider?
@@StjepanNikolic You're right, I don't know, but if he had told the pilot on the right to also move to center, then hopefully they would have done so. The problem with these videos is that if it's not something we can directly see, we have to guess.
@@davesgliding what do you think was happening at 6:06 ? you dont cover the microphone with hand unless you want to attenuate engine noise and be clearly heard. When everyone is facing forward, who should have better situational awareness?
@@StjepanNikolic yah, I don't know what he was saying.
Good reaction from the tow pilot. I'm quite surprised that the glider pilot was able to get so far out of position, and would love to hear the cause 'from the horse's mouth'. It's real easy to jump to conclusions that would dismiss the glider pilot's skills, but he/she is probably perfectly skilled in flying but something was omitted in this case?
Yeah it would be good to hear what they said. There's definitely a big difference between pilot skills and just not being aware how it should be done. I'm not saying any of the pilots weren't skilled. The tow pilot was certainly onto it and should be commended for his quick actions.
Whenever a glider 'trades altitude for airspeed' it can overtake the tow plane. On a single glider aerotow this can easily happen when the glider drifts a bit higher than the towplane and then (incorrectly) pushes stick forward to return to level position. Nose down will increase the glider's airspeed (faster than the towplane) and put slack in the towrope. The correct way to return the glider to level behind the towplane is to yaw the sailplane to reduce lift and increase drag. This keeps the rope taut and restores correct position. If the glider is threatening to rear-end the towplane, glider pilot can open spoilers to increase drag, slow glider, and tauten the rope.
Slack rope is commonly triggered by turbulence. We all learn how to remove it, and with practice we learn how to promptly input corrections that maintain correct position in turbulence. Since the towplane is 200 in front of the glider, it can fly into sink when the glider flies into lift (and vice-versa). Glider pilot can compensate with elevator, spoilers and yaw.
@@Paul-vh6ul I think most of us here know how that works. Still incidents occur even with extremely experienced and/or professional pilots. I think that we can assume that the pilot in this case was perfectly proficient in aerotow, because you'd never attempt a dual-tow. And still he/she got way out of position, so knowing what really happened is important to learn from the incident. Was it weather related, airflow related, human factors, who knows?
Trim too far forward?
@@Paul-vh6ul A *genuinely useful reminder* . ........ Top Comment 👍
We used to do plenty of double tows in the mountains of British Columbia moving gliders from airport to airport. The turbulence is strong and we found it much better to just stay horizontal on high tow, short glider just a bit higher than normal. The tug was then just yanked from side to side rather than up and down with the stall horn blaring. The other benefit was that in low-tow the glider would get covered in oil from the L-19 birddog tug. Not by the book, but we swore by it.
Interesting!
The first reply which talks real experience. Why is the lower glider 2 and half spans(!) lower? One span is enough.
Never done a dual tow - and learnt something today! Thanks Tim!
Thanks for showing this. Brought up so many emotions for me as someone who has actually done a dual tow. It just made me thankful that the people I did mine with (many years ago) knew what they were doing and we (ALL) were properly briefed. I would say all 3 were LUCKY they didn't end up in a spiral mess hurtling,,,, well you know. And after all that, the glider on the left (pilots facing) turns RIGHT, right into the path of the right glider, I just about freaked out. Anyway, glad you showed video 2 - I will go flying with those guys any time.
I'll prefix this by saying I have no idea what I'm talking about. But it looked like the tow plane experienced a some yaw when the tail was pulled down, so much so that the left hand glider (pilot facing) was almost directly behind the tow plane when it released. I wonder if they just wanted to get out of the way of the path of the tow plane and knew the right hand glider was quite a bit lower than them?
Great that you post these videos. It is very instructive and useful to learn from other people's mistakes. You never get old enough to learn everything from your own mistakes.
Glad you like them!
Wow dual tow, never knew this was a thing. Looks impressive but also dangerous but I'm not even a novice. Well narrated and good filming from the different angle. Would love to try a filght in a sailplane as only done powered flight. Cheers all.
It's not as dangerous as it might look if done correctly :)
As another primarily power bod hoping to dabble more in this dark art of flying without engines .......
I find it helps to think of it as *the opposite of a multi engine approach*
Here you have 3 aeroplanes and only 1 engine.
Gotta love the economics of this 😜
Incidentally what's the difference between a glider and a sailplane?
@Tungsten Kid to my knowledge (please correct me if wrong), a sailplane is like what is in this clip, an unpowered aircraft with a large wingspan. The term glider can include such things as motor-gliders which I have flown, which are aircraft which have a small engine but are operated similar to a sailplane and also similar to a typical light aircraft. Gliders can also include paragliders and para-motors. Most of the time, the term glider will be reference to a sailplane.
I hope this makes at least some sense.
@@tungstenkid2271 "What's the difference between a glider and a sailplane"?
Usually several thousand dollars
I"ve flown dual tows a couple of times. It was a pretty cool experience, but being towed for 110 miles with increasing turbulence from mountains was a bit stressful at times.
I bet! It's always harder towing horizontally rather than upwards too, let alone mountain turbulence
Thank you Tim for another great lesson.
My pleasure!
Thanks Tim for sharing this experience with the community. My experience of a dual tow was during my student training, I was towed by a Sterman and the gliders were a Puchacz and PW5. It was a linear trailer, with a
briefing
more than clear. Hugs...
Thank you Tim for sharing this experience with the community. My experience of a trailer dual was during my investigation of student, I pulled a Sterman and gliders were a Puchacz and PW5. It was a trailer-linear, with a breafing more than clear. Hugs... 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
Thanks Walter!
The cameraman on the wing captured it very well.
lol they sure did!
"No Oompah-Loompahs were hurt during the making of this video!"
They found the rope by calling the power grid company and asking which towns had been blacked out. I can imagine people rightly annoyed by ropes and shackles falling from the sky onto their property. The low glider pilot is not even ready for single tow operations, I wonder who organised this shambles?
Thanks Tim. As you know up until last year when the narrowing of the Raglan Airfield made it unsafe to have 2 gliders on the runway concurrently our Piako Gliding Club annually dual towed the 2 Club Puchacz’s from Matamata to Raglan while the Scouts took over our Airfield for the Walsh Memorial Flying School. For tow pilots who had not done dual tows before there we’re always practice tows & extensive briefings. Glider pilots always flying with an experienced Instructor in dual tows in the back seat. I’ve great photos & video of being the glider on the long rope at the back. Malcolm Piggott has an excellent video you may want to post as a follow up on how to do a double tow correctly & safely.
That tow pilot is great. That could have ended horrible. He did exactly the right thing.
Never done a dual tow - and learnt something today! Thanks Tim!. Never done a dual tow - and learnt something today! Thanks Tim!.
Your narration is so compelling! Clear and unambiguous! Massive respect.
Thank you!
Excellent discussion! I have not been a tow pilot for a long time, did back in the mid 1970s. I soared for only four or five year, them learned the AF way and on my way to Vietnam. There was many a time when the glider would just get to high in the tow and it would take longer to reach the release point. Soared over Pikes Peak and did chandelles gaining altitude on just about ever circuit. And learned to read the dust devils' in Arizona. Many fond memories....... Thank you for helping me remember.. Have clear skys.....
Cheers Howard!
Good pilot you were. Only the good survived the Vietnam War Era.
Another great video. As a tuggie (long ago) I'd do everything I could to give the glider pilot what they wanted - height AGL and a good position for lift or a landing (or maybe just one of those), despite any antics happening behind me unless I felt in peril (never did). This tug pilot did a great job.
Fascinating video Tim, I've never seen a dual tow before. In a sport like this where safety is so critical, I should think there was lots of training required before giving this a go.
Yes, exactly right, you wouldn't do this without experienced instructors in the gliders (normally!)
I learned to fly in TG~2 and later was a tow pilot. Never did a double tow. Never had to dump a tow. The video gave me the shivers!
Almost get the idea the tow pilot was ready for that. I'm sure looking down and across to your glider is a good gibe away! Well done
yeah that tow pilot was definitely onto it!
Fantastic that you also included a video of how it should be done!
Glad you liked it!
Of course, we are not hearing any radio traffic between the planes, and I would like to know if there is radio traffic between the planes.
If I were the Tow Pilot and I ran out of rudder authority towing two aircraft, I would be on that radio instantly and warn the pilots…
If you look at the video carefully you can see the tow pilot on the radio just before release
You would think there would be a group meeting before take off, so everyone understands what's expected of them.
They did! Unfortunately none of them knew how to do it properly
Wow, that's a lot of stick deflection on the tug before releasing the tow.
For water skiing and wakeboarding we use a special non stretch rope so we can’t easily make slack. When you ski with a stretch rope and cut hard once you get to the edge and go to cut back the rope slacks and rips your arms off when it gets tight
Did half a dozen triple tows in CEB ... many dual tows and one low level upset / at Matamata regionals which nearly put me through the trees... all good fun...
I love how the top glider just nopes the hell out of there with a hard right once things go wrong.
Yip! Shame they were meant to turn left haha
During the late 1970s in the UK there were a series of accidents involving gliders pulling up abruptly behind the tug with the tug's tail being pulled up often resulting in a fatal accident to the tug. The glider was, typically a Ka6E which only had a belly hook, a very light elevator and an inexperienced pilot. The BGA had asked us at Booker to investigate what happened and I was given the, unenviable, job of tug pilot in a 180 hp Super Cub.
What we found was that if the glider (a Ka 13 on the belly hook) was gently climbed out of position the combination could reach a stable situation with the tow rope at an upwards angle of 45 degrees from the tug, the Ka 13 at almost full up elevator and the Super Cub still fully under control. We had a chase plane with a photographer (actually he was David Attenborough's film camera man) taking pictures of it which I still have somewhere.
We later tried the Ka13 making a rapid climb and the outcome was very different. On the first one I attempted to keep the Super Cub under control by pulling on the stick. The result of this tussle was that the tug's tailplane stalled resulting in a very violent pitch down to near vertical with a fair amount of negative G (my head hit the metalwork in the top of the cabin). Since it was at 2000 ft there was plenty of time to recover and I was, of course expecting something to happen.
We then tried the same manoeuvre but without me getting into a pulling match with the glider. This resulted in the tugs tail being gently lifted, the tug starting a descent and almost immediately the weak link breaking. The tug remained under control throughout. The moral seemed to be don't pull, although this obviously didn't work if you were very near the ground.
The purpose of the tests, all done without radio contact bye the way, was to try to find a way of making an automatic release on the tug. Several attempts at this were made, but none were successful. The problem seemed to go away initially with keeping inexperienced pilots out of Ka6E's and later with Ka6E's being retired.
The fin and rudder could also stall if the glider got violently out of position laterally (usually with a Chipmunk as a tug), but in this case the problem was self correcting as the tug assumed a new heading which put the glider directly behind again.
absolutely love your demeanor man....one of the most "un-stressful" people I know of. You'd make a great co-worker lol
Lol thanks!
Thank you for showing the correct procedure in the end for us newbies. :)
Thanks for watching! Be warned that might not be the perfect technique either, there's debate about how quickly the gliders should pop inline with each other incase the rear glider balloons on launch. Generally you should only be doing this with experienced instructors who have been trained how to do it properly. Cheers!
I am subscribed to you.
I'm a big glider fan and watching you Tim. Thank you for your work.
Thanks for the sub!
I remember Bruce Drake’s C182 ZK-FIW being used for a triple tow at an air pageant at Rangiora in the mid-80’s.
Did about 6 triple tows at the Auckland Club in CEB... one dual upset release at Matamata regionals... quite exciting...
I wondered at first if this was at Gt. Gransden (where I used to go), but the distinctive ‘pointy lake’ at 02:30 is probably at South Kilworth making it the Husbands Bosworth club (‘Hus Bo’).
"Sten gun lake". I learned at Husbos.
Years ago, I was asked to design a dual-tow installation on a Transavia Airtruk (I'm an aeronautical engineer). I used two TOST belly releases, installed upside-down so they would automatically release if either glider got too high. I flew the high glider and investigated out-of-position potential problems - the Transavia Airtruk was an unconventional layout and had two tail assemblies, and a very short fuselage, so the vertical out-of-position did not cause the tug pilot any problem, but the lateral out of position was potentially dangerous. Overall, the experiment was abandoned, because the added risks of a dual tow with any tug were far too great to justify the small cost benefit. It's a fool of an idea, been tried many times - it simply isn't worth the risk.
Again a good video to learn from ! Thank you !
My pleasure!
Great situational awareness on the part of the tow pilot!
Yes agreed!
When i did my instructors rating at Matamata we did it from a treble tow. Gliders out on both sides and us underneath. Very cautious during the flight.
I bet! Never seen a triple tow, only a dual myself :)
@@PureGlide The development of the protocol used for the multi-tow is likely interesting for those appropriately in the know to theorise about. (perhaps including briefing for the common problems, or the common problems among those acquiring new sills). Kinda surprised that in the bad example there wasn't some radio instruction to the out of position glider, or positive confirmation of satisfaction...they are distributed system.
I don't know how they did it . But when I was in Norway I saw an air tow with 4 gilders behind a tug , one behind the other. If my memory server me right they were all K8's and K13's.
well done from the tug pilot for releasing the second it went wrong. perhaps the lower glider was a student of some form as he was in a two seater?
Amazing footage!
My Dad flew CG-4A Gliders in WW2. He said he'd done a few of these. But the US Army Air Corps, in short order banned them as they were very deadly. The T/Os he loved the most were the snatch (don't remember the technical term) where a C-47 would fly low and snag the nylon rope and up they would go. My Dad said it was definitely an E-TICKET RIDE!
The same problem we have at our airfield. We use a microlight as a tug with one glider in tow. The Problem is that the tug has a takeoff-weight of about 420kg with a 700kg glider in tow. In case the glider pilot is not knowing what is expected of him, the tug-pilot is in big trouble. As the tug-pilot I would have released the glider earlier at minute 3:55 for an off-field landing.
Good thing that the glider pilots promptly released the tow rope that was tying them together (after the tow pilot released the rope from the towplane).
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your interesting Videos! Great insights.
Glad you like them!
Scary times. Have never done a dual tow from any of the three positions, not sure I want to either!
Tank you very much for this video. Very instructive...
You are welcome!
As I saw the slack rope develop for the low tow glider, I almost spit out my lunch as I involuntarily exclaimed "Woh!"
that pilot was on the button. very good reaction.
Top marks to the tow pilot.
I think he knew that low glider was going to cause him trouble.
Great video. You explain it all very well.
Thank you!
good thing the tow-pilot was obviously just waiting for the sh!t to hit the fan and reacted almost instantly :) plus the other glider pilot reacted great too because the upset of the towplane makes it way slower than the glider who's in upper tow and additionally in a higher position (more energy).
On the topic of "why do a dual tow?", The late, great, Dick Johnson would occasionally do dual tows if he wanted to do a flight test side-by-side comparison between two gliders but did not have 2 towplanes available.
In the video with the correct dual tow, the gliders lined up behind the tow plane while still on the ground. As a result, the tow rope for the glider at the back was under the wing of the glider at the front. This means that if either the glider at the back or the tow plane would have lifted off the ground before the front glider, the cable would have hit the wing and the front glider would have tipped over, possibly doing a ground loop right in front of the glider behind it.
Wouldn't it be safer for each glider to keep to the side, like the two gliders in the first video did? And then, only once in the air, would they position themselves at the center?
That's how we normally fly it.
Yeah it depends on the experience levels of the pilots, and weather. In that last example's case they had thousands of hours flying those gliders, so no chance of the rear gliding leaping into the air. Yes you could leave the gliders separated horizontally for a bit longer if needed. Cheers!
I've towed two before there's no chance the tow is plane going to take off first. I like the in trail method, when two gliders start to the side its very hard to maintain directional control, needing a lot of rudder to stay off to the side and dragging a wing (snagging a rope) is very possible. also if the ropes in a wide V snag on weeds or clumps of grass it tends to swerve the towplanes tail causing a lot of foot work. in my opinion starting in trail is good as long as the lightest (soonest to lift off) is in the middle, lessening the chances of the rear glider pulling the rope up... the back pilot needs to be the most competent, first staying disciplined and low and reacting properly if the first glider has a rope break or the towplane upsets... largest risk is to the sailplane in the low tow position if the robe breaks or is released by the towplane where the glider has to eat the mess of rope... generally double tows lost their usefulness after WW2.
In the commentary it says that the #2 glider remains on the ground until #1 and the tug are airborne.
I wouldn’t be too happy about aerotowing with a taut rope under my wing. No matter what the rear pilot’s skill level, this is a massive risk if there were a mishap.
I find it mind boggling that NONE of these pilots even seemed to do the most basic research on how to dual tow before putting all their lives at risk!! WTAF!!??
Back in the early 70's the tug plane would would fly through Burkes Pass with two gliders behind it heading into the Mackenzie Basin.
The second example vastly different 👍
It looks like Husbands Bosworth in the Midlands. I know the site quite well as I've visited and flown into the site a few times. There may have been an absence of a proper briefing in this case. This is somewhat surprising as I've witnessed dual towing on the site but I personally have never done one.
It is Husbands Bosworth, and yes the main problem is they didn't know how to do it properly, so briefing didn't help!
I never did a tow, just winch. But of course you learn some theory anyhow. And danger number one is your position behind the tow plane. Whenever you get too high up, you can really kill the tow plane, for you make it dive down, and often that is the end. Only thing the pilot can do, is disconnect the tow line, or bail out and use his chute, but many tow planes simply have no rope cutter, nor a Tost hook, nor an emergency chute. It's like the gallows! In case of going far too high, the glider pilot must jerk the yellow knob.
Many years ago, my only experiences with gliders was in Belgium. We were winched up, caught updrafts and had a marvelous afternoon. I was a passenger with a Belgian colonel flying the glider. This was during my US Army days. Wonder if gliders are still winched up? Thanks for the video.
We sure are! Many clubs still winch including my own. Have a look at my previous videos about winching
I have done many tows behind a Pawnee in my Glidinhg carreer. At our club, IE. Orient in S.A., we were instructed to always fly in Low Tow position behind the Tug on normal Aerotows. Although I have done many High tow position tows at other clubs which insist on High Tow position. Just a point that occurs to me from viewing the video. The Glider Pilot flying in High Tow position cannot see the Glider below him at any time if they assume an in-line stacked position (I.E Low tow and high tow directly in line behind the Tug.) Nail biting stuff. This double tow or multi-tow idea was pioneered in War time. Looks pretty hairy to me, I certainly would not try it unless I was at War.🙂 Interesting video, thanks Paul
I've flown a number of dual tows, and it's not as tricky or dangerous as this video might make it look! I've also flown high and low tow in Australia and NZ, and both are fine really, but with high tow you have to be much faster on the release if anything goes wrong or you get too high. Usually I'll tow with what the club usually does, because their mirrors on the tow plane will be set up for one or the other...
I was wondering what would happen when the tow plane turns to the right. I can't imagine being in a tow on the inside of turn.
Ah the good ole days where we met in a room or part of the hanger, went over checklists, verified everyone knew what position they would be in, what they should see, and gone over emergency situations and what to do. If on take off x y or z happens cut loose. if on take off, something happens, cut loose and land in these fields here, here or here. once above x feet on climb out it is safe to circle back and attempt landing at the airfield.
You know, basic stuff so you are not scrambling in an emergency to figure what to do and where to land and turning to tight, bleeding to much speed, stalling out and crashing trying to be back to the airport when yo don't have the altitude to do that.
I’m wondering if a small amount of air brakes on both gliders would be beneficial to the tow -reducing for sure the speed & climbing rate, but- ensuring that there is no brutal tug to the towing airplane and the glider due to slack in the towing-line.
Would it be useful ? Has it been tested ?
Ahh. G'Day Tim! This was a great video well done, Good job Tow Pilot & the high Tow Glider Pilot! Did you start PureTrack?
Thanks! Yeah I created PureTrack.io, let me know what you think of it!
@@PureGlide I have it running right now! I use it mostly to follow Gliders here in Australia. I do like & got a laugh out of the options you can choose. Found some interesting Flying Machines ha ha! I was using that platform when PT Outlanded a few weeks back, made a crappy video of it ha ha. I love it! Good Stuff!
@@PureGlide Meant to say, I've been using it for maybe 6 months at a guess, if not more. I don't remember when I found it. Was probably from watching one of your vids though. Cheers, Leo.
Gliding, the only sport where during your first solo you have to also do formation flying. (Unless your first solo is off a winch, as mine was.)
Exactly!
When i flew in the UK i never did low tows then when i moved to Oz it was always low tows but i had some dual instruction when switching from high to low. So i suspect UK pilots only experience low tows when gliding overseas.
Yes we're the same in New Zealand, we generally only do high tows too.
We are trained for both in the UK.
@@PureGlide Some clubs do 'low tow' in UK. I actually prefer it - for long cross country retrieves low tow is much easier to fly and is more stable - trouble is a lot of guys go too low -you just need to below the tugs slipstream..........
@@soaruk3697 That's how I brief for retrieves.
Thanks for the video and commentary. Got to love non sailplane pilots making comments regarding safety/etc. Wait till they see a 4 way tow with each glider pilot boxing a corner of the wake. Perhaps that is what the guy in low right position was trying to do but traded too much potential energy for speed/and or hit a thermal. Not optimal but a non-event excepting the guy in 1st tow position broke right when he should have broken left on release.
Right on
Duel tow??? I didn’t know that was even a thing!
Even watching the correct one makes me nervous. I would never agree to be a part of that. Either we do a single tow or you can find another pilot.
Fair enough! Those doing dual tows should be comfortable doing them
Well, I did 1100 hours in gliding and a lot of tug flying. Flying the tug can induce a very high frequwncy ring ripple sometimes. Gliding sttarted a career that ended with 18000 flying hours but, It is now the only way to master stck and rudder skill
Why the higher glider turns to the right side after release the rope? In my opinion it‘s safer to turn to the left, away from the other glider
Give up the fight against gravity... it always wins in the end! 🙂
Never!
Look at the bag(?) behind the neck of the pilot when he recovers from the climb. He had to fly zero G. Wow.
Pretty certain the wing of the glider on the short rope struck the ground on the take off roll too. I thought SOP was to abort the take off if that happened.
love the vids
Thanks mate!
@@PureGlide Have you ever done any gliding in Sothern california? Really want to learn, but I can't find anywhere near me that does it.
I felt sorry for the Tuggie!
The poor guy was applying full right rudder most of that flight!
At the end it was full down elevator as well. Then he made the decision to pull the plug… 😲
Yeah exactly, he handled it well though
@@PureGlide He certainly did! 👍
My personal rule as a tuggie was, once airborne, if any control hits its end stop then the glider can expect to be dumped
@@harryspeakup8452 That is fair enough. 👍
This is my current home club although the incident happened before I was a member there. That Pawnee isn't based at the club though, we use DHC-1 Chipmunks. Wonder whether this was meant to be a dual retrieve following an outlanding?
I heard from the CFI it was just a practice dual tow over the field.
have never seen/heard of a dual tow, interesting. why doesn't the tow pilot radio the gliders to get in line? thanks for sharing.
"why doesn't the tow pilot radio the gliders to get in line?".
How do we know he didn't?
Never done this but just by watching it I would immediately felt it was wrong to be in that spot being dragged like that... 😬 everything you do should always feel natural and this would make me ask if I'm really suppose to be in that spot.
I’d love to hear the radio comms.
Yes!
I'm not a pilot, yet, but I find it hard to believe that the cost savings of a dual-tow is worth the potential of something going really wrong. The lower sailplane that had the rope wrapping around the wing was really lucky that it didn't go worse than it did. I continue to wonder why someone has not designed a tow rope system that lets the tow pilot release the tow rope at the sailplane so there would never be a time when an emergency tow rope release by the tow pilot would leave the sailplane with a rope hanging from it's nose.
If the sailplane pilot doesn't want a rope hanging from the nose of his sailplane, he's quite able to release the rope. There's a release at each point of attachment to an aircraft, controlled by the pilot of that aircraft. It's completely unnecessary to try to invent a tow rope system that would put the tow pilot in charge of all the releases.
Is this a case of not having a clear preflight briefing on the procedures?
How important is matching the glider class when duel towing? I would imagine they need to be of similar size, wingspan, performance ... this was fascinating, I've never done a duel tow.
Good question. Certainly helps if they're the same, but you don't have to be too far off. Not sure I'd put a JS3 with a Twin Astir for example :)
That is just unNerving to behold... I really don't know squat from a squash but this video (your video) should have been required viewing during pre-flight - if there was one :O\ Thank you for the "life saving education" if I ever find myself in this situation. Cheers
I used to do aerotoeing when I first started to learn gliding, but hated it as its expensive. I have never heard of dual towing, it looks dangerous
When the tug pilot hit the release lever, does it also automatically release the cable from the gliders, or do the glider pilots have to manually release when they see the cable come snaking down?
No the gliders have to release the cable as well separately. Which creates a problem: they can’t see if it has released or not, so they don’t know if it’s dangling down underneath them. So the advice to land high as if it is there
@@PureGlide Thanks, and does the unreleased cable hanging from the glider affect the flight characteristics of the glider to any dangerous extent?
I'm not a glider pilot or aircraft pilot. But I understand pulling an object with a rope - say a wagon from a bicycle. It will go though cycles of tugs and rolling freely. Just like a glider. The direction it will tug from will be related to the position of the object being tugged. One glider is turning away to it's left all the time. That's going to exert a left pull on the aircraft tail. The other glider is much lower, and that's going to exert a tugged pull downward whenever the slack on the line is taken up.
If you don't think about action reaction of physics, you shouldn't do some activities. Simply following a list of procedures will not cover every predicament a person finds themselves in.
Surely not ?! A UK Glider pilot making a mess of something and not even being able to blame the powerplant pilot ?! Great Scott.... 😂
haha